So today I am driving along in my recently cleaned RX8 when I hear honking and see flashing lights in my rear view mirror. I quickly glance down at my speed and notice a am well within the speed limit! I start to panic that maybe I left the gas lid open or that something had fallen off of my car. So I pull over into a parking lot and this yellow hummer pulls up next to me. Out pops this women dressed in a tie dye shirt and ripped jeans. She approaches me and says "Hey have some respect and drive a more fuel effecient car! You're killing our planet!" Then she tells me "Get an SUV and clean up your act!"


Moral of the story....


FIX THE FRIGGAN GAS MILEAGE MAZDA THIS IS STARTING TO PISS ME OFF ROYALY!

Todays fillup with running Shell 93 octane fuel during the winter netted me 10.8 MPG

correct me if im wrong, but isnt a hummer a guzzler to?

Hahhaahahaah.. The point was that he is complaining about the gas milage. Good storey Tick!

rofl- you poor thing. If it makes you feel better, though, mine makes the same noise with the clutch yours does. 9-K Rever and I turned down the stereo last week and tested it, and sure enough there it was. So at least that part of your car isn't defective!

I also have that noise..

To funny.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

That is hilarious! Imagine our beloved 8 guzzling more gas than a SUV!

ROTFLMFAO!

Originally posted by TheTick
Out pops this women dressed in a tie dye shirt and ripped jeans. She approaches me and says.......

That wouldn't happen to be our beloved moderator Elara stirring the pot was it?

:D

Hey, I can empathize. (although my car has been getting a whopping 16-17 miles per gallon this winter)

I wish Mazda could do something about it as well. Yes, I saw the EPA estimates before I bought the car, but I rarely get the chance to drive it hard, and I was hoping I could get around 20 MPG on the average. You know, the highly touted improvement over the RX7 in both fuel and oil mileage and all that.

Yeah, I'm aware I coulda bought an Insight if I was after good gas mileage. It just seems that Mazda was boasting convincingly about the RX8 having improved mileage.

I'm glad my car doesn't look like, or handle like, or take up as much real estate as a Hummer though!

Gosh this is unfortunately very close to the truth for me. I have a 2000 F250, ext cab. long bed, 4x4, powerstroke pick up. I get 20-21 mpg hwy and 16-17 in town. 40 gal tank is nice too.

My 8 has just barely got 21 hwy at its best. Now granted the 8 is 100x more fun and eye catching but I do hope it a little better. And when I have the choice of which one to drive, zoom zoom :)

Very creative! I was reorganizing my old car magazines and reread the automobile article about the 8 vs the BMW 330 and the Z. 23/25 mpg my ass! Of course, it also said 250 hp.

I should keep all my old articles that say 250 hp. They might be worth something one day.

As you can tell I am just a bit dissapointed with this problem. The 100 other threads on this issue don't seem to affect mazda in any way.

: )

I know, we just have to type in all caps. (they hate 'em)

HEY MAZDA, WHAT'S UP WITH THE POOR MILEAGE SOME PEOPLE ARE GETTING?

I'm sure they're thinking "reeeealy heavy right feet".

My 8 gets better gas mileage thatn my 2000 Ranger Trailhead truck.................but the truck DID have the 4:10 rearend.

Originally posted by TheTick
FIX THE FRIGGAN GAS MILEAGE MAZDA THIS IS STARTING TO PISS ME OFF ROYALY!

Todays fillup with running Shell 93 octane fuel during the winter netted me 10.8 MPG [/B]

If you're gettin 10MPG then there's something wrong with your car. That's abnormally low and to try and continue this misinformation that 10MPG is a normal mileage for rx8 owners to see is just spreading FUD.

Go complain to your dealer, mileage that low must mean there's something wrong with your car.

I like the part about the tie dye shirt and ripped blue jeans, your imaginary friend sounds like the consumate environmentalist hippie!

Well, on the positive side, things are a little better. this last fill up I got the best mpg to date..18.5 mixed city/highway miles. 93 octane Cosco gas. 4700. miles. Maybe like a good wine..better w/ age?

Originally posted by sferrett
If you're gettin 10MPG then there's something wrong with your car. That's abnormally low and to try and continue this misinformation that 10MPG is a normal mileage for rx8 owners to see is just spreading FUD.

Go complain to your dealer, mileage that low must mean there's something wrong with your car.

I believe his point is that he has complained to the dealer and to Mazda NA and their official response has probably been to "NOT DRIVE THE CAR SO HARD".

Mazda Canada never admitted responsibility for the bad mileage on ours either which we owned for 4 months/7,000 km. We drove the car gently to try and see if the mileage would ever improve. Luckily we got all our money back when we turned it in.

It's replacement, an Infiniti G35 coupe gets 23 mpg city and 30 mpg highway. That's better than twice the mileage. When you factor in these operating costs the car is much cheaper that the RX8 despite the higher MSRP. This will be more important in the future because who knows what will happen to gas prices or availability. It's just not smart to put up with horrible mileage in this day and age.

If Mazda ever fixes the gas mileage I would buy another RX8, however not unless they can prove it. As far as I'm concerned they've totally blown their credibility on this issue. Not to mention the flooding issue.

BTW, for advice on how to deal with customers Mazda should look to Nissan/Infiniti. We just received a letter telling us that due to reports of short brake life on some G35's all of our brake service will be free for the life the warranty (4 years/96,000 km). You can guess which company's trucks I am looking at to replace our Suburban! Now that's how to keep customers happy!!!!

MAZDA ARE YOU LISTENING???

Originally posted by westie
IIf Mazda ever fixes the gas mileage I would buy another RX8, however not unless they can prove it. As far as I'm concerned they've totally blown their credibility on this issue. Not to mention the flooding issue.

This is exactly the kind of FUD spreading I'm talking about. This mileage issue (of 10MPG or less) is not typical of the vast majority of owners. Most of them measure 17 - 20MPG or something like that. Thus trying to generalize that 10MPG is some kind of common issue is just spreading paranoia. And saying that "mazda needs to fix it" is implying that it's something that happens to everyone and is common place and we're all just putting up with 10MPG. Same thing goes for the flooding issue - do a search if you want to see my comments on that.

If your dealer isn't giving you satisfaction then tell them - take it up through the management chain until you do get satisfaction. Even with the most hard driving the lowest MPG I've seen is about 14 - so if you're getting 10 (youre = nobody in particular) then take it to your dealer and get it on the books. Enough of that and you may have a case to return in via the lemon laws. Same thing if you flood constantly.

But trying to say that this is normal or typical is just not true.

(FUD = Fear Uncertainty & Doubt, in case you were wondering)

You are missing my point. We got our money back. I didn't have to take them to court. We were lucky because of the buyback.

THEY NEVER ADMITTED THERE WAS A PROBLEM!

And they still haven't.

BTW, 17-20 mpg is nothing to brag about on a car advertised at 23-30 mpg, rotary or not!

Originally posted by westie
You are missing my point. We got our money back. I didn't have to take them to court. We were lucky because of the buyback.
...
BTW, 17-20 mpg is nothing to brag about on a car advertised at 23-30 mpg, rotary or not!

I'm not bragging - but I'm also not distressed about it either. If I got 10MPG then I would be complaining, but to my dealer and Mazda, not to the forum.

I'm not missing your point - the only way Mazda will admit a problem is if owners experiencing this issue pester their dealer to get it resolved. Posting here won't do it, all it will serve to do is make the casual reader think that 10MPG is just normal bad mileage of a rotary engine - which is just not the case. And this kind of FUD is what makes (people) driving H2's pull over someone and tell them they get worse mileage than their H2. It's complete BS (and the story is barely believeable in the first place anyhow - perhaps I'm the victim of another troller)

If you got your money back then great - why are you continuing to spread fear amongst potential buyers? Go post to an Infiniti forum or something and leave the bitching and whining to people who own the car. To those who are experiencing this issue and did not take advantage of the buyback - please, pester you dealer and don't take no for an answer until you get satisfaction.

Simon.

I just got back from a different dealer 100 miles north of here. The dealer there was appalled at my situation and actually offered to take my 8 on a trade in straight up for a new one. Only problem was they don't have one like mine in stock. The dealer up there also said that I should call Mazda and talk to a factory rep. He is pretty sure they would offer me a buy back or fix this issue. So I made a little progress atleast in the way I was treated and how I feel about my chances of resolving this issue.

thanks for all the support

The Tick

Originally posted by westie

BTW, 17-20 mpg is nothing to brag about on a car advertised at 23-30 mpg, rotary or not!

the car is not advertised with that mpg figure. it was mentioned in that range before production began but was never given as such for production models.

Dear Simon:

I am not a certified, un-reformed rotaryholic. I did however own an '84 RX7 (in the 80's) and most recently an '04 RX8 GT. I want to buy another RX8 in the future. I wanted a reliable, efficient, well styled, great handling sports car. I thought that's what I had bought. It was only the latter two. I post the comparison to the Infiniti (because we own one) only to illustrate that RX8 owners should not put up with any BS from Mazda. I am a member of this forum, therefore I should post my thoughts and experiences for others to read and learn from. Are you suggesting censorship on the forum?

The problem as I see it is that Mazda is not acknowledging the problems with some of these cars. If people were receiving satisfaction from their dealers they would not be posting complaints on the forum. It doesn't seem to make any difference to Mazda. I am happy to see that the Tick may get some satisfaction but I'm not holding my breath.

Maybe just the titanium grey ones get bad MPG

Westie

My RX-8 gets the same mileage as my Lexus GX470 SUV (15-20 MPG).

Originally posted by TheTick
I just got back from a different dealer 100 miles north of here. The dealer there was appalled at my situation and actually offered to take my 8 on a trade in straight up for a new one. Only problem was they don't have one like mine in stock. The dealer up there also said that I should call Mazda and talk to a factory rep. He is pretty sure they would offer me a buy back or fix this issue. So I made a little progress atleast in the way I was treated and how I feel about my chances of resolving this issue.

thanks for all the support

The Tick

This is excellent news - it's good to see some constructive input on this issue and a positive indication that there are some decent dealers out there willing to help resolve problems. A shame you had to go 100 miles to find one.

I agree that dealers seem to be short changing customers in some cases, and we need to make sure that people who are experiencing legitimate issues aren't bullied by their dealers.

Oh - (not in reply to TheTick) by the way, I'm not certified. There's a big difference between certified and certifiable.

Simon

Well I hope all this works out so far it is just words but the dealer was trying to find an 8 on his lot that he could trade me : )

Originally posted by Rotary Nut
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!

That is hilarious! Imagine our beloved 8 guzzling more gas than a SUV!

ROTFLMFAO!

Not so funny.

I went for a drive today with my friend in his Nissan Pathfinder.
Big ass SUV, weighs 50% more than my RX-8.
4 wheel drive, all the bells and whistles.

So?

He gets about 50% better fuel economy than me.

You just need to make sure you have 100% more fun when driving the '8 then to make up the difference.

The fun factor is there but not when I have to go to the pump!

Originally posted by canzoomer
Not so funny.

I went for a drive today with my friend in his Nissan Pathfinder.
Big ass SUV, weighs 50% more than my RX-8.
4 wheel drive, all the bells and whistles.

So?

He gets about 50% better fuel economy than me.

I think he was making a joke.....any thoughts on a canzoomer fuel mod??? The cost of rodent food is going up, and KLEGGSPEED orders are hurting...

Greetings!

I've got about 2200miles on my RX-8 now, and CONSISTENTLY get 19.5 mpg. 13gallon fillup every 250 miles, give or take 10 miles. These numbers consist of roughly 75% (often slow/traffic) freeway miles. Driving slow or driving hard doesn't seem to make much of a difference in my car's gas mileage.

I'm not complaining at all, considering my previous turbo and non-turbo RX-7's have always done much worse. I think the new Renesis driveline is, at the very least, superior to the previous rotaries in this aspect.

Gas mileage is the same with friends' G35's and 350z's, and probably the same as all the other Nissan VQ35-equipped cars that are *so common* around here.

Originally posted by GiN
Greetings!

Gas mileage is the same with friends' G35's and 350z's, and probably the same as all the other Nissan VQ35-equipped cars that are *so common* around here.

Congrats! You are one of the lucky ones.
Add a little altitude, and a heavier foot and it is not so pretty.

I can live with it. I did not take the buyback, have not put it up for sale.

Worst gas guzzler story I can think of is a guy I knew back in high school in the early 80's that bought a used Oldsmobile 442 (refer to http://www.442.com/) that had a 400 engine, 4 barrel carb, and dual exhaust.

Going out with him cruising was always expensive since someone would inevitably ask to see him "smoke 'em up" or challenge him at a stop light. I think he was getting 8-10 MPG, but the sound when that thing was breathing fire was (almost) worth the price of riding with him.

Latest story is that mazda said "as is, as delivered." Now if that isn't one of the biggest cop-outs I have ever heard of. Essentially they are telling me that since they cannot find the cause there is not problem. Also the fact that I took delivery of the car makes it my problem. Now I don't know about you but I would not have taken delivery of this car if I would have known that it would only get 12.9 mpg in the city. Especially considering I live and work in the city. Any suggestions on what to do next would be appreciated.

thanks

Tick,

Yeah I have an idea and I've suggested it before. We need to get a buch of RX-8 owners together and look at Mazda's legal responsibility to us. We were only able to go by the posted EPA estimations when we purchased and I know that I was not made aware, at the time of purchase, that my car wouldn't come close to what was posted. If we want to get this corrected then we have to band together. Posting about this may let each of us know that we aren't the only ones who are experiencing this issue. Now that we know (and keep discovering everytime a new owner discovers the forum) it is up to us as a group to decide what to do. Mazda isn't going to do it for us. We are going to have to do it ourselves. Cowboy up folks and let's get it going.

I am more than willing to get something going I just don't really know what steps to take. Any suggestions would be goof though.

Well we need to talk with an attorney to get the show on the road. I am guessing that we need to put some pressure on Mazda. If they don't respond favorably then we need to consider a class action lawsuit. I figure that we could look at sueing for the difference it will make financially to drive for the next 8-10 years depending on what the life expectancy of the car is. We can look into hiring an attorney or maybe there are a few on the forum who are interested. If not my uncle sits on the "board of regents" at Gonzaga Law. I can always get a nice referral from him. Let me know what direction you would like to go.

I know that you need a few more people to get a class action suit going. I'm not sure exactly what to do so I think I will do some research.

I just want to take this moment to make a comment. It seems to me that there are a lot of people on this forum who want to complain about poor gas mileage and loss of hp but when you actually say let's do something... wait for response from crowd... still waiting... hello? is anybody out there?... still waiting for response....

Originally posted by westie
If Mazda ever fixes the gas mileage I would buy another RX8, however not unless they can prove it. As far as I'm concerned they've totally blown their credibility on this issue. Not to mention the flooding issue.

BTW, for advice on how to deal with customers Mazda should look to Nissan/Infiniti. We just received a letter telling us that due to reports of short brake life on some G35's all of our brake service will be free for the life the warranty (4 years/96,000 km). You can guess which company's trucks I am looking at to replace our Suburban! Now that's how to keep customers happy!!!!

MAZDA ARE YOU LISTENING???

Dear Tick:

Sorry to hear about your troubles. This is exactly the kind of Mazda NA crap I was talking about in my post. If you proceed further some forum members will call you alarmist, "rotaryholics" like SFERRETT will defend this car to the death despite the fatal flaws. He's lucky he doesn't have to fill up every 175 miles! A brand new 2004 car getting 1/2 the published MPG is a fatal flaw! I agree with your idea about the class action but I have a better idea first. I'm surprised I haven't seen it yet.

If you want people to join your lawsuit they have to know about it. You need publicity!! The newspapers and TV would love to know about a story like this, especially "60 minutes" type shows. Just don't approach the car magazines they've probably been bought off by Mazda. In fact the newspapers and TV may refuse the story because Mazda might threaten to pull advertising, hard to say. The point of the publicity is to embarass Mazda and get people to join the class action suit. I'm sure there are a lot of RX8 owners out there that don't know about the forum. After all, it's not in Mazda's best interest to tell them.

Maybe the best approach is to just quietly trade the car in and limit your loss before any publicity.

To you 93rd current, right on!! You can see by reading my posts what we did about the bad MPG. Hold Mazda's feet to the fire, and don't give up.

Westie

Actually, you are not hearing from folks on this because it has been talked about to death!!! Do a search, you will see that it is not mazda who posts the MPG, but the fed's!! Now, rather then losing money on a lawsuit, why not just sell the car, or trade it in? the G is a fine car, you really can not go wrong with it....

Not trying to start trouble, here, or a flame war, it is just that this topic has been covered already

BTW, I average about 220 miles per tank, between, 17 and 18 MPG...not what I would like, but in line with other high performance cars....I guess we can not have everything, if any car was "perfect" we would all own them!:)

If I was getting 17 - 18 that is 4 to 5 more mpg that I currently get. If you take that cost and streatch it out of the life of the car you will notice that people with low gas mileage are paying an outrageous operating cost well above the EPA's estimation. All I want is for Mazda to publicaly recognize this issue and atleast attempt to solve this problem. My biggest dissapointment is the fact that Mazda will lie to you and tell you that because they can't find anything broken on the car that there is no problem.

Don't take me wrong, I do think you guys have a problem...but I do not see a solution, except getting a diffrent car..

I have determined that the real problem with the RX-8 is the range, not the fuel economy. At my avg. of 17-18 city and 21-23 highway, the mileage is not out of line with other high performance sports cars. What is out of line is the small gas tank. If the tank was 20 gallons or bigger, it wouldn't seem like the mileage was all that bad since the range would be significantly farther. What makes the fuel mileage so noticable is that on the average you have to fill up every 11-12 gallons (200-250 miles). This makes it seem worse than it really is. As for the folks only getting 10 or 11 miles per gallon....something is definitely WRONG with your car. Take it to the dealer and if they don't fix it after 3 trips, turn it in with the lemon law deal and try another. There is no reason that a properly tuned RX-8 should be getting less that 15 MPG city or 21 MPG highway.

Geez, be happy with the 17-21 mpg. I have owned 5 Mustangs and I would jump for joy if I ever sniffed 17 MPG. Best I ever got in my 2001 GT (the most fuel efficient Mustang I have owned) was 16.3. I average 15.5.

The RX-8 is going to be an economy car for me.

The problem as I have been able to gather has nothing to do with what the EPA posted on the car or cars they used to get an average mpg rating. I believe that the A/F ratios were adjusted after the EPA tested the car. If this is true and it was not reported to the EPA then we have a lawsuit. I know if Mazda called me up tomorrow and said "Hey we have an ECU flash we are doing on the RX-8 that will give you better mpg without affecting your hp (or even better increase the hp). Will you bring yours in?" I would say HELL YES. I am sure that anyone else would do the same. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that even Klegg (with his KleggSpeed Stage II mod installed) would say "you guys that's great, BUT I am happy with what I am getting now. After all, it's right in line with other sports cars."

My M3 which was an inline 6 3.0L engine and it was getting like 17-19 mpg in the city and 23-26 on the highway. That is better than most of you are getting and right in line with what was advertised.

We could ask Mazda to correct it and give us something for our trouble or we could take it up with the EPA. Either way we don't just have to tuck our tails between our legs and whine every other day about how bad it is.

I am not flaming or attempting to start a flaming war either I just am not the type of person to bitch about something and not actually get off my ass and do something. I love my car and if it weren't for the MPG issue I would be extremely satisfied with it. I just feel like Mazda new something they held back from us and that makes them responsible for it. If the power company told me that it only cost me $75/month to run my house but forgot to mention that my meter would be replaced by a new one that was going to show me paying more like $115/month I would answers from them too. Especially if they could just put the old meter back in and it would take me back to $75/month.

You are right, I would get the reflash....and I would be pissed with 15 mpg

I have been badgering Mazda for a while now and they always tell me the same thing. Essentially they say that because the car is not broken you cannot lemon law it. Also that the EPA set the mileage not them so they cannot be help responsible. If everyone was getting relativly the same mpg then I would not have much to complain about, but the fact remains that there are those that get stated mileage or better and those of us with considerably worse mileage than stated. I put a call into the NE regional manager and he told me he would get back with me in a few days. If I don't get a reply by Friday I will try to contact the factory rep. I think I need to start recording all the calls I have with this to catch them in all the "we will call tou back" lies. Maybe then someone will talk with me.

I wonder if this is a seal problem...if there are unburned gas going back through the cycle, would that cause it? Maybe one of the tech minded here would know...

well, did anyone know about the seal?

The mileage claims are based on tests performed by labs hired by the manufacturers. The reporting is VOLUNTARY.

And wrong...

Originally posted by westie
...
If you proceed further some forum members will call you alarmist, "rotaryholics" like SFERRETT will defend this car to the death despite the fatal flaws.
...

My issue is when newbies come on the forum and say stuff like "What about the crappy gas mileage?" and "Aren't I going to get in a train wreck when I stall and flood on a railway crossing?". Going on about "fatal flaws" is the kind of detremental FUD that gets cars an undue bad name. I don't believe the '8 deserves a bad name - there are some folks having some problems, but it's not chronic as far as I can tell and certainly calling them "fatal flaws" is somewhat melodramatic. There's just as many folks saying they are getting 20+mpg consistently as there are folks saying they are getting sub-13mpg.

I'm not defending anything to the death - I'm trying to prevent these kinds of real issues that are affecting some people being portrayed as a widespread "fatal flaw" that is happening to everyone, thereby giving people unfamiliar with the car the wrong impression. They shouldn't be shielded from the information, but it needs to be put in perspective and considered rationally.

I think people who are experiencing real issues such as abnormally bad gas mileage or chronic flooding should proceed as far and as vigorously as they can about getting their issue resolved - just don't make it out like it's something that's chronic across all owners. So your statement about me is wrong and hence I'm a little ticked off.

If I somehow managed to offend you then I'm sorry, but please don't generalize me, group or categorize me or speak for me again.

Simon.

Originally posted by canzoomer
The mileage claims are based on tests performed by labs hired by the manufacturers. The reporting is VOLUNTARY.

In the US, they're based on outdated tests by the EPA, and they AREN'T voluntary.

Well after mazda had my car again for several days to examine the mileage problem they once again told me that my car is operating within "operating limits." Not to mention they washed my car before I got it back and it looks like they used 100 grit sandpaper to dry it!

Read my post on this thread: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21292 . I am getting the PCM/ECU re-flash. Apparently it is supposed to improve the gas mileage. I will post my results later.

TheTick,
Hummers, by the way, get about 8-10 mpg, so at worst you were her equal.
I don't plan to have kids. I'll adopt. That means in the next 100 years I have prevented 4 more people to join this planet. Therefore, I can use twice as many resources during my entire lifetime and still be way ahead of the game. Whaddya think of that logic? Don't buy into the hummer hippies argument, industry collectively pollutes much higher per capita than us residential folks. You do more harm to the environment from constantly buying everyday stuff that was manufactured in some plant, especially from plants in Asia, Mexico, and India. Scientific American just put out an article about global warming- as worried as I am about it, it's a hard sell to blame RX-8 exhaust alone as the cause...

Actually I test drove the H2 for 2 days and I will say that they get 13 mpg average with 85% city and 15% hwy driving. I was pretty impressed with those numbers after everything I had heard.

Originally posted by sferrett
I don't believe the '8 deserves a bad name - there are some folks having some problems, but it's not chronic as far as I can tell and certainly calling them "fatal flaws" is somewhat melodramatic. There's just as many folks saying they are getting 20+mpg consistently as there are folks saying they are getting sub-13mpg.

I don't think the 8 deserves a bad name either - but Mazda NA does. From what I've read, there is a disproportionate number of people experiencing well below EPA figures than there are people experiencing actual EPA figures (not to mention better than EPA figures). Now I know that cars will vary from the EPA numbers, but wouldn't that average include an appropriate percentage of people getting better than the EPA rating? I don't see many, if any, of those. That leads me to believe that the EPA numbers were skewed - possibly from an ECU flashing sleight-of-hand trick.

On a side note, my other new cars (both piston engines) were dead spot on the EPA numbers (if not slightly better on occasion). I always thought that the EPA ratings were conservative, if anything.

I'm not happy with my gas mileage, if you haven't caught on yet. I'm not complaining just to whine about it, and would be willing participate in some kind of organized complaint/class action against Mazda. If anything, we may all at the least be able to get the ECU reflash if Mazda is put against a corner . . . from what I've read, ECU upgrades such as the CZ Stage I is able to give us some of the missing power back without upsetting emissions (except maybe CA). So why couldn't/shouldn't we expect Mazda to step up and give us what we were lead to believe we were getting?

Originally posted by DemonRX-8
I don't think the 8 deserves a bad name either - but Mazda NA does. From what I've read, there is a disproportionate number of people experiencing well below EPA figures than there are people experiencing actual EPA figures (not to mention better than EPA figures). Now I know that cars will vary from the EPA numbers, but wouldn't that average include an appropriate percentage of people getting better than the EPA rating? I don't see many, if any, of those. That leads me to believe that the EPA numbers were skewed - possibly from an ECU flashing sleight-of-hand trick.

On a side note, my other new cars (both piston engines) were dead spot on the EPA numbers (if not slightly better on occasion). I always thought that the EPA ratings were conservative, if anything.



Exactly my thoughts, but written in a much more clever way!!