Here is yet more evidence why the RX-8 is and will remain relevant to all those truly interested in enjoying a high performace great handling car vs a brute force performace car on track, regardless of of it's sales success to the public.

So today I was reading a online story about NJ Motorsports Park, a place I enjoy massively running HPDE's myself and am running again shortly. It's a 2.25 mile technical track with a long straight, a real challenge. But this story I refering to comes from the August 2009 issue of Automobile Magazine - here ( http://www.automobilemag.com/features/news/0909_chevrolet_camaro_vs_ford_mustang_great_rivalr ies/index.html ) and about a Mustang GT and Camaro SS, and in the story they decide to got to to NJMP Thunderbolt race track to do a head to head on-track comparision.

Without a doubt, these are two of the hottest American V8 performance cars, and it's fitting they can go head to head. It's a good story, and highlights the the relative strengths and weaknesses of the cars. The drivers are:

PJ Jones, son of famous Mustang driver Parnelli Jones: "The Mustang is a car that you can hustle." He has two decades of experience in everything from GTP prototypes to Indy cars.

For the Mustang, we started with the GT model, built around a 315-hp, 4.6-liter twin-cam V-8 mated to a five-speed manual transmission. To this, we added the $1495 Track Pack, which features a limited-slip differential with a 3.73:1 final-drive ratio, nineteen-inch wheels shod with Pirelli PZeros, more aggressive brake pads, carbon-fiber clutch plates, a strut tower brace, and upgraded suspension components.


TRACK DATA
Fastest Lap = 1:40:7
Min Speed = 48mph
Max Speed = 127
Ave Speed 80.3
Cornering = 1.12g
Braking = .61g
Weight = 3565 lb


David Donohue, son of famous Camaro driver Mark Donohue: "There's no replacement for displacement." He'd raced on this very track a few weeks earlier in his Daytona Prototype.

For the Camaro, we opted for the SS. This is slightly more expensive than the Mustang GT, but it offers more bang--a 6.2-liter pushrod V-8 pumping out 426 hp, a six-speed transmission, a limited-slip diff, Brembo brakes, and a performance suspension. All Camaros have an independent rear suspension rather than the Mustang's live axle. We also checked the box for the $1200 RS package, which added twenty-inch PZeros to the mix.

TRACK DATA
Fastest Lap = 1:40:0
Min Speed = 47mph
Max Speed = 130
Ave Speed 80.9
Cornering = .97g
Braking = .80g
Weight = 3859 lb


Pretty impressive no? High horsepower cars, with performance options, professional drivers....closed race track. Think the RX-8 wouldn't have a chance against such beasts driven by professionals? Think again...:yesnod:

The times looked familiar, and I realized I had my Traqmate track data from the self same track for my 2004 RX-8, so I dug it out and here's my best lap from an HPDE with the Porsche Club on 5/19/2009.

TRACK DATA
Fastest Lap = 1:38:8
Min Speed = 52mph
Max Speed = 118.1
Ave Speed 78.2
Cornering = 1.39g
Braking = .79g
Max HP = 228.88
Weight = 3047 lb

My car is a street car like these muscle cars, outfitted with coilovers, 255/40/17 R-Comps, HD anti-sways, strut braces, and track pads. I'm hardly a pro driver, but yet it's not difficult to see that it is entirely possible for the 8 to overcome most of it's perceived shortcoming of power and torque when it comes to doing battle on a racetrack.

Moral of this story, "There is a replacment for displacement!" The replacement is having a car with (much) less weight, maintaining a higher speed because you don't need to slow down so much on corners, maintaining higher lateral g's because of better overall handling. We really have little to be ashamed of on track from a whole stable of so called "performace cars".

Enjoy your car at your local track this season...it's really the most fun you can have sitting down ... and bring back some good tales from the twisties...;)

Anyone know how that average speed is calculated? I always thought it was by the lap length divided by the time required to lap it?

Because the 8 has a lower average speed than the other two :dunno:, which implies they took it as some measure of top speed and bottom speed?

Anyone know how that average speed is calculated? I always thought it was by the lap length divided by the time required to lap it?

Because the 8 has a lower average speed than the other two :dunno:, which implies they took it as some measure of top speed and bottom speed?

Yes, I noticed that, but all I can do is use my numbers and what they published in the article.

The only plausible explaination I know is that they drove a different line than I did, meaning they drove a longer track line than myself but at a higher speed.

I know my exact distance traveled (11454.25 ft) and the Traqmate shows me exactly where I drove on the track, but I don't have the data from their sessions to that detail. This explaination is certainly possible though. I simply drove a tighter line.

That's a reasonable explanation to me, unless someone wants to parse out the math. Admittedly, I am very pleased to see such results compared - I believe NJMP is more forgiving to lower HP cars than VIR.

You should submit your write-up to auto-mag for their response :lol:

actually, that makes sense. the higher cornering ability allowed the 8 to run a tighter (and shorter) line, which resulted in a shorter distance traveled. it's not much different than the approach at an autoX, where you usually want to trade speed for distance. a tighter and slower line is often faster than a longer but higher-speed line.

i'd like to take mine out at NJMP sometime.

Weight = 3859 lb


[B]Pretty impressive no? High horsepower cars, with performance options, professional drivers....closed race track.

Almost 4,000 lbs? Car? No way. Sounds like a SUV.

Almost 4,000 lbs? Car? No way. Sounds like a SUV.

It helps keep the tires on the road :D

Well, I guess that's cool. But I don't see the point in comparing a car with R-comps to a car running street tires, especially comparing lap times.

well, i guess that's cool. But i don't see the point in comparing a car with r-comps to a car running street tires, especially comparing lap times.

+ 1

Well, I guess that's cool. But I don't see the point in comparing a car with R-comps to a car running street tires, especially comparing lap times.

+1

yep.

I don't see the point in comparing a car with R-comps to a car running street tires, especially comparing lap times.
Seriously. R-compounds make a difference of several seconds per lap.

Sorry guys, I didn't coordinate which tires they ran. Not trying to say things were equal, of course they weren't = in either direction. As true as it is that I'd have the advantage with r-comps, one could say the same for comparing two pro drivers skills around a track to that of a sometimes HPDE driver....must be a few second per lap there, not to metion their built in speed and acceleration advantage. If that rationale doesn't suit you, handicap me 3 sec or whatever pleases you...the point was that judging a car's track ability on it's specs and reputation is a difficult thing to do, no matter what car you're talking about.

I've raced on the Lighting course, not the Thunder course....NJMP is awesome. The lighting has less turns and is 2mi.

I was running with TT RX7s, nasty Evo MRs, and a few other sick cars. I'm @ 2785lbs on a full tank w/o me.

Our car with NA bolt ons is still very competitive for HPDE's and Time Attacks. Add a turbo...and a driver mod...:SHOCKED:

Car & Driver got a 1 second shorter lap time at VIR in the RX-8 compared to the previous gen (2005-2009) Mustang GT, both in OEM form, and your RX-8 is not in OEM form. Those suspension mods you have make a big difference on a race track, especially a technical one.

The new 5.0 mustang may us beat in stock form on the track then =p

One can't tell, both the Mustang and Camaro had suspension upgrades as well as power upgrades. Too many variables in play. One could argue whichever comes out faster in stock that who had the wider tire had the advantage, and if not that then something else will come up.

Point is generally speaking the 8 will keep up on the track and depending on the driver, setup can beat the over-powered beasts.