did I see correctly (on your forum) that you are going to be at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca with the 50 RX-8s that are being shown and driven by the press tomorrow (Jan 16). :eek:

Please tell more, or throw us your impressions when you get back (I'm sure you will ;) )

If your taking any more requests. I would like to see some pics of the blue. As I don't think any pictures I have seen so far have shown it in the correct light. Oh yeah, and push the 8's to the limit will ya. If we can't have fun driving one right now, someone should. hehe

Will the journalists be able to hook up their testing gear and give us 0-60 times? Have we ever discussed 0-60 before?

0-60 =>6.7   :mad:     Cancel my order!
0-60 6.5-6.6  :(     I need to look at a couple of other cars...
0-60 6.1-6.4  :)     With killer handling and a quality interior, I'll take it.
0-60 5.5-6.0  :D     I'll take it.
0-60 5.0-5.4  :eek:     I'll take two.
0-60 =<5.0&nbsp;&nbsp; :mad: &nbsp; &nbsp; This car is a ringer, you are cheating!!!!

yea they should just do a quick 0-60 and 1/4 test with the g-tech it wont be super accurate but it'll be about right. and take pics of titiuanum grey. btw how far is laguna seca from irvine?

DonG35miata,
I am on the same page as you with the 0-60 times.

I think though that there will be a lot of aftermarket support for the car so even if it is slightly above 6 sec. I believe well into the 5's could be had with a few mods. Of course with that is the time involved in R&D of aftermarket parts. I guess we could look at the 350Z for a timeperiod till we get aftermarket support.

I believe well into the 5's could be had with a few mods

I'm not a modder... and the 350Z did not tickle my fancy. If the RX-8 does not deliver the goods, I will get nothing (which makes more sense LOL) or get another VW GTI 1.8T.

I doubt that very few people in here if anyone at all can tell the difference between 5.9 and 6.1 seconds 0 – 60; so I really do not understand what all of this crap is about!

IMHO, this “must be under 6.0 seconds or I will buy something else” mentality is just plain BS. What is it with this under 6.0 seconds thinking? I want a car that can handle!

If the car does 6.5 seconds 0 – 60 that’s fine by me, I’ll take mine in yellow please.

Flame suite on… ;)

I agree to an extent ZoomZoom.. I have an 01 Maxima in the house with 222 under the hood, and the power in that car for me is plenty for my needs.

However it doesn't handle well at all. There's no control, no feedback.. just the power. And that's the problem I find with most Nissans (though I give credit for the 350Z/G35, but not GREAT credit).

That's why BMW has gotten away with their lower power cars for so long (comparitively anyhow). The 330Ci does 0-60 in 6 seconds (AFTER C&D got their hands on it), and costs 5 grand more than the 350Z (loaded vs loaded). The 325 does 0-60 in considerably more time, yet TONS of these are sold. More than G35s and 350Zs put together.

But BMW's handling prowess has been known for some time and when people buy that 325 that's quite a bit slower than <insert car here>, they know they will still have a car that will respond exceptionally to driver inputs and handle like it's on rails. The G35/350Z handle well, but they don't beat the telepathy of the BMWs, not yet anyways.

But it's what you want... if people want those sub 6 second to 60 (which is the most pathetic measure of performance anyway, 1/4 mile is much better measure), then that's fine. They can have their sub 6 second cars and I'll take my 6 second car and have a blast at every turn with plenty of power for me. And those guys can rev their engine at a stop light and 'beat me' to the next one... while I don't even engage them.

Shortly after somewhere on the internet a 'kill' will be posted... and the question might be asked... "was he even racing you?" :)

Just my $.02. I am waiting for the 1/4 mile time myself, as that's a much better measure of performance. People that run in here and say that the 0-60 time is too high and that's the reason they won't buy the car don't know a damn thing about performance in a car anyway. They want the looks and the power. The actual driving enjoyment and beauty of steering response is something you couldn't explain to them if you tried.

My thoughts exactly, well said!!!

Though its a shame, I think the bulk of BMWs are bought for their badges, not their handling.

Originally posted by revhappy
Though its a shame, I think the bulk of BMWs are bought for their badges, not their handling. I would not argue that point. Sadly BMWs are excellent cars but for the price...

I'll stick with my RX-8. Just as fast as the 330Ci (at least this is my guess) if not a tad faster, exceptional handling, looks, uniqueness and PRICE make it the perfect buy.

I don't expect to see too many RX-8's on the road.. but while I'm driving in my RX-8, I wouldn't be suprised to see another 10 330s surrounding me on the road :)

I still don't see why people think a sub 60 second ( or a low14s 1/4 time for that matter) and good handling are mutually exclusive? For sports/sporty cars around the 30K range, you have the S2000, 350Z (handling can be argued I guess), EVO, STI and possibly the WRX.

Though personally, i could live with the car if its 0-60 times are low- mid 6s IF it is near top of the class in handling. If its a sports car, and its at the bottom of the range in acceleration, it better handle better than most , if all. I think the best way to accomplish both goals is to make the car as light as possible. Still my major concern, is that the suspension will be too cushy...but time will tell.

Originally posted by revhappy
Though its a shame, I think the bulk of BMWs are bought for their badges, not their handling.

Actually the bulk of the BMWs are leased as well.

look this is a fuken sports car, a rx-8. its SUPPOSE to be fast, so stop dissing people just cuz they want it to be faster.

although u wont be able to physically feel the difference between 5.9-6.1, it is a signficant difference.

this car SHOULD be doing sub 6's in 0-60 and low 14's in the 1/4.

if u old pops r fine with a slow(er) rx-8 then fine. but u guys just dont understand so stop dissing others.

Originally posted by tribal azn
look this is a fuken sports car, a rx-8. its SUPPOSE to be fast, so stop dissing people just cuz they want it to be faster.

although u wont be able to physically feel the difference between 5.9-6.1, it is a signficant difference.

this car SHOULD be doing sub 6's in 0-60 and low 14's in the 1/4.

if u old pops r fine with a slow(er) rx-8 then fine. but u guys just dont understand so stop dissing others.
.

Originally posted by tribal azn
look this is a fuken sports car, a rx-8. its SUPPOSE to be fast, so stop dissing people just cuz they want it to be faster.

although u wont be able to physically feel the difference between 5.9-6.1, it is a signficant difference.

this car SHOULD be doing sub 6's in 0-60 and low 14's in the 1/4.

if u old pops r fine with a slow(er) rx-8 then fine. but u guys just dont understand so stop dissing others.
Omg... Were you one of the extras in the Fast and the Furious? :p
The RX-8 is NOT a pure sports car. It's a 4 door (or 2.5 :) ) sporty coupe/sedan with 4 usable seats and a trunk. It's not designed with pure acceleration in mind, at least not this version. The MPS version might be. Get over it. Just because it's priced in a certain segment doesn't mean it has to beat every car in tha segment. So once again, STRAIGHT LINE ACCELERATION is not the one and only empahis of this vehicle. Handling, steering feedback, breaking, acceleration, or should I say pure OVERALL enjoyment of driving is the mission of this car, at least imo. This is not a Mustang or Camaro where build quality, interior design, suspension design gets put back in favour of pure muscle.

Now I'm not saying that I wouldn't want the 8 to be in the sub 6 second/14 1/4 mile acceleration bracket but if it's off by .2-4 seconds I won't give it a second thought. Grow up and mature a little.. geez..

I'm not a stop light racer myself--don't care for it, don't respect it, and quite frankly, I suck at launching. (-_-) I do, however, appreciate 1/4 mile times, not because of the drag racing application of it, but because I do alot of highway driving and passing power is a necessary pleasure for me, for both defensive reasons and the occasional highway battle. (^_^)

I'm WAY more interested in 35-70, 50-80, 30-100, whatever, than I'll ever be in 0-60. Anyone who has ever been stuck convoying on Hwy 1 or "The Los Banos Run" on Hwy 152 between 101 and 5 in California, or any other one-laners, where one must pass not one, not two, but seven or eight ass-kissing cars along with a big rig (or two), will surely undersand

Originally posted by evel333
I'm not a stop light racer myself--don't care for it, don't respect it, and quite frankly, I suck at launching. (-_-) I do, however, appreciate 1/4 mile times, not because of the drag racing application of it, but because I do alot of highway driving and passing power is a necessary pleasure for me, for both defensive reasons and the occasional highway battle. (^_^)

I'm WAY more interested in 35-70, 50-80, 30-100, whatever, than I'll ever be in 0-60. Anyone who has ever been stuck convoying on Hwy 1 or "The Los Banos Run" on Hwy 152 between 101 and 5 in California, or any other one-laners, where one must pass not one, not two, but seven or eight ass-kissing cars along with a big rig (or two), will surely undersand Passing power on this car will definately be greater than any car in its class.. it keeps gaining torque until 7500RPMs... the rest take their dive at 3000 or thereabouts.. After about 6000RPMs, the RX-8's torque is greater than the rest.

Originally posted by Hercules
Passing power on this car will definately be greater than any car in its class.. it keeps gaining torque until 7500RPMs... the rest take their dive at 3000 or thereabouts.. After about 6000RPMs, the RX-8's torque is greater than the rest.

That's exactly what I'm counting on, and it's why I'm sticking with rotaries, despite knowing I'll be taking a drop in the power category as a sacrifice for a wee bit more practicality and newer technology. Perhaps I've been spoiled by turbos, but I'm thinking in a few months, I'll be rediscovering why I love driving in the first place...

Originally posted by tribal azn
look this is a fuken sports car, a rx-8. its SUPPOSE to be fast, so stop dissing people just cuz they want it to be faster.

I don't see where your perceived "dissing" comes into play. Glancing back, I think the harshest word said was "pathetic," and it wasn't even directed at a particular member, it described a certain form of benchmark test.

Originally posted by tribal azn

this car SHOULD be doing sub 6's in 0-60 and low 14's in the 1/4.

if u old pops r fine with a slow(er) rx-8 then fine. but u guys just dont understand so stop dissing others.

so u r retortin' against someone's lack of understanding wid 1 of yer own?

I gUeSs I jUsT dOn'T uNdErStAnD.. (^~^)

The RX-8 is a what? sporty coupe/sedan. I don't think so even mazda has said that its a sports car. So I expect sports car performance.

I think that the reason that many people are comparing 0-60 times is that that is the speed range where most people will be driving it. The majority will not be racing this car so how it performs much past the speed limit is not as important to them. If anyone knows a way to quantify steering response and handling, then be my guest to post that information. Until (and probably even after) we have skidpad and possibly slalom numbers (which are still pretty subjective) we can't really compare handling except based on the warm fuzzy that Mazda gives us.

Fact is that 0-60 gives some indication of the limits of acceleration when the car is pushed. Looking at that number doesn't mean that you are going to drag race. It is just a convenient way to compare. I've driven Ford Escorts that were fun as hell to drive, but I'm not paying 30k for one.

my thread has lost focus :(

my biggest question to rotarynews is the one i have been asking for awhile now: what happens to the cars after they are done with them at laguna saca?

The RX-8 is a what? sporty coupe/sedan. I don't think so even mazda has said that its a sports car. So I expect sports car performance.
From www.mazdarx-8.com:

"Create the ultimate expression of Zoom-Zoom by creating a sports car the likes of which the world has ever seen."

Mazda is calling it a sports car. They have been for years.

The RX-8 is NOT a pure sports car. It's a 4 door (or 2.5 ) sporty coupe/sedan with 4 usable seats and a trunk.

Sporty? Like an RSX or GTI? Lots of cars are sporty. Sporty is a weak adjective IMHO, like saying it comes up short of beingsports car, sports sedan, etc.

I would have no problem calling it a sports car, four doors and four seats at all, if performance is competitive with contemporary offerings such as the S2000, 330i, G35 and 350Z. By all indications so far, it is going to be a class under, and competitive with the likes of the VW GTI VR6, Acura RSX, etc. For 30k, RWD, 18' wheels, etc it should do better. There are a lot of compromises in the car in terms of price, interior space, maintenance (especially replacing 18' run-flats) etc.

Sure, it has RWD, and it should handle very well. If using a rotary in a car without much interior room still yields over 3,000 lbs and a 6.5 second 0-60 time, other than the novelty it isn't doing much and I can't see the point. Sure, rotaries are fun to drive and have a different feel, but arguably you could use conventional technology, build a conventional car, and do a better job.

I for one can't see the point of a $30,000 car with somewhat odd styling, a small interior, middling acceleration, potentially high maintenance, etc just to get good handling. We still don't know about the handling. Some have reported it may not deliver the feel we want, suggesting it has a relaxed feel. The RX-8 needs to get the 0-60 time under 6.2 seconds and have truly sharp (not relaxed) handling to be worth the price of admission. Otherwise, it is just another Japanese sports coupe that happens to be RWD and has a different engine operating principle.

I think what some of us are trying to say is that the performance may not be worth the price of admission considering all the other compromises involved. It's great that some of us will defend the RX-8 till our dying day, but you need to be objective too. Right now my objective eyes tell me that the RX-8 may come up short from what it should be, and Mazda missed the mark. (Whatever the mark was.) I sure hope not. When I saw the Evolv, 0-60 in 5.0 was the quote. When I say Mitani's RX-8 write-up in R&T last April, it was 2,800 lbs, 6.0 seconds and the world's best chassis dynamics. Now we are at 3,000+, 0-60 in 6.3-6.4 seconds and "doesn't feel particularly entertaining"(Automobile Magazine) handling and "unremarkable" (Car, U.K.) engine feel.

Yeah, I guess I am disappointed at the way the RX-8 has unfolded. I admit it. I imagined a real visceral experience. I saw myself driving a real rocket with incredibly agile and telepathic handling. That isn't how I see the RX-8 right now.

I read most of those articles a different way. Almost all articles compared the Renesis to the 13B with turbos.

The 'doesn't feel particularly entertaining' comments refer to the fact that there's no sudden SURGE of power; it's linear and just builds and builds. The RX-7 had the 'surge' from the turbos that spooled up and let it rip, and I think that comparison is what is made here.

As per the 'unremarkable' comments, I don't know. Automobile Magazine has never been my favorites.. and CAR mentioned nothing of the sort. Edmunds, Top Gear, Evo and others all praised the car for an excellent chassis, and good handling (though most did admit there was a bit too much roll which hopefully will be corrected).

So I'm not worried right now. 6 seconds to 60 seems very do-able and Mazda will probably get this as their release just to appease the likes of you, and the countless others who believe that a 0-60 time is an actual measure of performance. The quarter mile is a more important number to me, at least in the regards of performance. Even for the retarded kids that race their friends.. how often do you race to 60?!?

So shut the hell up about the 0-60 times. When it comes out, it comes out. You have the option to take your money back at any time. If you haven't put the money down and you are complaining about the speed, then shut the hell up too.

Most people that complain about the 0-60 times and such are those that love the styling and want to run with the likes of the 350Z in sheer power. But they don't know what Mazda is about and has been about for the last 10-15 years. That's why the Mazda6 was released with a modest 220 horses while the Altima and Maxima run upwards of 250. It's only in America that people are stupid enough to buy into the raw power of a car making it a better sports car.

I can say two words to that: Lotus Elise.

Sigh... Your arrogance yields its ugly head once again...

So shut the hell up about the 0-60 times. When it comes out, it comes out. You have the option to take your money back at any time. If you haven't put the money down and you are complaining about the speed, then shut the hell up too.

First, do not tell me or anyone else on this board to shut up. It's rude. Many on here have the same concerns that I do about the car not delivering as promised. You will not gain any points on here ordering anyone around, and it will not work with me in any event.

The 'doesn't feel particularly entertaining' comments refer to the fact that there's no sudden SURGE of power; it's linear and just builds and builds.

LOL Wrongo, Herc. It is there in plain English. "doesn't feel particularly entertaining" means "doesn't feel particularly entertaining". If it was entertaining in a different way, they would describe it. It is possible to build a fast car with boring accelerative characteristics.

Automobile Magazine has never been my favorites.

Your opinion does not make their impressions any less relevent. They seem to concur with more than a few others.

So I'm not worried right now. 6 seconds to 60 seems very do-able and Mazda will probably get this as their release just to appease the likes of you, and the countless others who believe that a 0-60 time is an actual measure of performance.

Again, you are not the ultimate arbiter of automotive knowledge. 0-60 is the common reference when describing acceleration. It describes a time to a speed. Sounds like a measurement of performance to me. It accurately describes how the car will feel to me at the speeds I will be spending most of my time at. If you only want to consider 1/4 mile, fine. I look at 0-60, 1/4mile, 0-100, and then 1/4 trap speed myself. YMMV.

Most people that complain about the 0-60 times and such are those that love the styling and want to run with the likes of the 350Z in sheer power. But they don't know what Mazda is about and has been about for the last 10-15 years. That's why the Mazda6 was released with a modest 220 horses while the Altima and Maxima run upwards of 250. It's only in America that people are stupid enough to buy into the raw power of a car making it a better sports car.

I have owned two Mazdas in that time frame, lightweight sports cars. I do know what Mazda is about. I don't love the RX-8 styling. It is OK. I don't need to run with the 350Zs. But for my 30k it should do better than run with the RSXs of the world.

Get off your high horse and join the rest of us. You have PO'd more than one forum member with your attitude. It is possible to disagree and be civil about it without acting like your comments are the only ones that matter.

My apologies... I do get irritated (and lately moreso than before), because there are no final numbers out yet.

Every magazine has released 'estimations' on the 0-60 and we've no idea how they are calculated. I would point out though, that the BMW 330 was released at 6.3 seconds to 60, and C&D got it down to 5.9 seconds. That's pretty darn good in my opinion.

So all I'm asking is instead of complaining now, just wait a month. The numbers *should* be out by then, including weight, 0-60, 1/4 mile and all the rest.

And I did mention you do have the option to take back your deposit, so if you're displeased with the numbers then you don't have to get the car. But for me, numbers don't make the car and the RX-8 fits my space, budget, performance and styling requirements. But that's me. To each his own.

Apologies accepted. And please realize that my posts come from a feeling of disappointment over the press' less-than-raving initial impressions of the car's handling, lack of firm numbers, and the combination of rising weight and interior quality potentially beneath what was expected. I have been waiting a long time, and have had a certain impression of the car based on what was written by journalists and promised by Mazda. Right now it isn't being lived up to. Hopefully the production version will.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if RotaryNews gives us a report today we should not exactly what this car is capable of today. I don't know if they will have to wait to report their findings or anything but I believe today is the day of RX-8 performance testing there in Laguna

The 120 HP Elise has an approximate 5.6 0-60 time. I believe the ~ 200 HP Sun International version is something like 4.5. The RX8 has plenty of power, its just way too heavy.

Again, acceleration and handling aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, if you give weight reduction a priority. If you compromise this goal with rear passenger access, you add suicide doors and the related bracing and you get a heavier, slower, less tossable car.

Sure, it may be a nice stable and comfortbale car, but I seriously doubt based on current information that it will be a lightweight corner carver that would be considered with the likes of the S2000 and the Elise. Again, maybe I'll be wrong, but the conflicting design goals and current data concern me.

please everyone remember that these mags gave their impreesions of cars they drove in what? september? also we need to go back and read those articles in full. people keep quoting the one word "unremarkable". i remeber that being a good remark if read in context. it reads something like: it is so poised and the handling so crisp, without the dartiness of the last rx7- which left more than one driver in the weeds- as to seem almost unremarkable. now i am paraphrasing but i think that was close. and on the acceleration the article in question said something like : you don't feel the surge like you do in some cars but the rx-8 builds speed like a matchbox rolling downhill on a track. but he wasn't saying it was a bad thing. and also there were 4 cars at that drive time and it seems the drivers that talked about the "body roll" had all driven the same 1 or 2 cars. people that drove the other ones did not mention the body roll. it seems to me that mazda put the cars out there with several different suspension tunings to gather the impressions from people other than their test drivers, sothey could do the fine tuning. and last, don't worry the car is at least 2 months from production and 5 months from delivery. there is plenty of time between laguna seca and then to do what the have to do. as far as the cramped interior, please remember that the car car has the same footprint area of a porsche 911. so the amount of space inside is rather remarkable. it is in fact one of the things that i drew me to the car in the first place.

sheessh, i am long winded today! ;)

Originally posted by revhappy
...but I seriously doubt based on current information that it will be a lightweight corner carver that would be considered with the likes of the S2000 ...
i have no doubts that this car will carve the twisties at least as could if not better than the stook and with 2 more people on board to enjoy it.:cool:

The cars at NAIAS and at Laguna are supposed to be the production versions. At least this is what I thought. We have also seen crash testing vids. I believe Mazda is done working on the car you can't go and take weight out of a vehicle when its already been submitted for things like crash testing and the likes. So I think that we have seen production cars and the ones in Laguna are production vehicles. NAIAS was the launch of the RX-8.

I have a 2002 BMW 325i 5 speed w/ sport package.

Even though the hp/torque is like 180/180, it does “feel” quick. It feels very stable at high speeds, even when the road is very twisty. So I guess what counts is how fast you can go, safely.


The Mazda6 got great reviews. Let’s hope the RX-8 will follow with the same results.

Well,
0-100km/h time of Japanese spec is 6.1s.
I think 0-60 time is 5.9 or 6.0.

Originally posted by Quick_lude

Omg... Were you one of the extras in the Fast and the Furious? :p
The RX-8 is NOT a pure sports car. It's a 4 door (or 2.5 :) ) sporty coupe/sedan with 4 usable seats and a trunk. It's not designed with pure acceleration in mind, at least not this version. The MPS version might be. Get over it. Just because it's priced in a certain segment doesn't mean it has to beat every car in tha segment. So once again, STRAIGHT LINE ACCELERATION is not the one and only empahis of this vehicle. Handling, steering feedback, breaking, acceleration, or should I say pure OVERALL enjoyment of driving is the mission of this car, at least imo. This is not a Mustang or Camaro where build quality, interior design, suspension design gets put back in favour of pure muscle.

Now I'm not saying that I wouldn't want the 8 to be in the sub 6 second/14 1/4 mile acceleration bracket but if it's off by .2-4 seconds I won't give it a second thought. Grow up and mature a little.. geez..

rx8 not a sports?!?!? right idiot.

i never said 0-60 time is EVERYTHING. however it does play a big role when ur building a SPORTS CAR thats suppose to be FAST. and yes i know handling plays a big factor. i could just as well get a sti or a evo 8(which according to u arent sports cars) there both alot faster and arguably handle better, but im not getting those, why? cuz i like the rx8. im not expecting it to be the fastest and i know it wont, but it should still be reasonably fast.

yea im immature cuz i want my sports car to be decently fast enough. idiot.

Originally posted by Hercules
I would point out though, that the BMW 330 was released at 6.3 seconds to 60, and C&D got it down to 5.9 seconds. That's pretty darn good in my opinion.



1. its 6.4 according to bmw's site not 6.3

2. C&D got 6.1 not 5.9 (http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2000/December/200012_roadtest_BMW_330i.xml?&Manufacturer=BMW&Name=3-Series&class=43&page=2)

3. bmw underrates all there 0-60 times and thats why magazines always get lower times.

1. If the car is a little over 6s it's still a fast car. Drivers will enjoy the feel of how it responds vs. how fast it can go in a straight line. Sure there are cars that are fast off the line... But it's the driver that will determine the true performance of the car. (Hitting apexes, controling over/understeering, coming in and out of sharp turns). 250hp is more than enough for a stock car (and most drivers), but who will be launching their car on a daily basis because the have more horsies than others.

2. If it weighs a little over the 3000lbs. mark, I'm very sure no one will be dissapointed at how the car drives. (That's why I'm may be opting to just getting the sports package... less of the luxuries = less weight). So if you are getting a GT and worrying about the weight... think about all the extras that are adding to it. Don't forget this car has a 50/50 weight ratio (correct me if I'm wrong). Possible reason... ~1500 front ~1500 back??? :confused:

3. Final thoughts... No one is going to push there car to the limit until after the 1000mi. mark on their odometer. So we should be happy that the car is finally arriving and that it's close enough to what we expect. For a ~$30k sports car it should be a sweet ride.

Just my thoughts.... :D

Originally posted by tribal azn


1. its 6.4 according to bmw's site not 6.3

2. C&D got 6.1 not 5.9 (http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/roadtests/2000/December/200012_roadtest_BMW_330i.xml?&Manufacturer=BMW&Name=3-Series&class=43&page=2)

3. bmw underrates all there 0-60 times and thats why magazines always get lower times. I should have mentioned I was talking about the 330Ci (coupe). With similar dimensions it is more fitting a comparison. And that got to 5.9 after a 6.3 release, if my memory serves me :)

And also keep in mind, that MOST manufacturers will overstate the 0-60 only because if it's too hard to reproduce they will get a lot of flack from the press.

More likely than not, Mazda will release the car at 6 seconds to 60, C&D will test it and get it under 6 seconds. They may play with gearing to get the dash to 60 reliably under 6 and then overstate, just like all the other manufacturers do.

The Laguna Seca broohaha is called a long-lead press event, invite only, to allow journalists from around the world to try out the car in a no-holds-barred environment. They all will have had signed non-disclosure/publishing date agreements for a certain time-frame. Don't expect Rotarynews, Car & Driver, Road & Track, Automobile, or any other publication/media to "scoop" the other media any performance figures or impressions until they publish at the agreed upon time, or they will never be invited again and likely sued for breach of contract. Don't ask them any questions and they will tell us no lies, and I think it makes good marketing sense even as we are all frothing at the mouth over performance comparisons. It's par for the course when introducing a new car, especially one being tested and pushed to its limits on a closed-course track, a rarity nowadays. No other manufacturer has two private testing grounds. :)

We waited for the debut and pricing, now let's wait for the rest. :)

They should have invited me too :)

If it's no holds barred they wouldn't mind me making sure the handbrake is in working order :D

They all will have had signed non-disclosure/publishing date agreements for a certain time-frame.

I doubt they are on NDAs at this point. I am a journalist (weekly newspaper columnist in addition to my FT job and businesses) and have been put on NDAs before, and every time it was for a product that the public knew nothing about.

Whether they are or aren't, we still haven't seen any slalom, skid, braking or 0-60/1/4 mile figures. :(