Hi,
I have been driving my new RX8 for 3 days now. Coming from a very fuel-efficient Toyota Solara, I'm trying to drive this fun car (RX8) as if it is the Solara. This means, revving the RX8 to 4K rpm max, and then shift. Cruising to at least 2K rpm but not more than 3K rpm. This is how the Solara drives. I am running this experiment on my RX8 in an attempt to solve the missing MPG mystery :p

So tell me something, has someone tried this experiment before? If so, can you share with us the results? I run 45 - 50mph in the city on 6th gear and this is at 3K+ rpm. I think it is how people drive that waste them their gas.

I'll keep you posted on my first refill.

Originally posted by Xyntax
Hi,
I have been driving my new RX8 for 3 days now. Coming from a very fuel-efficient Toyota Solara, I'm trying to drive this fun car (RX8) as if it is the Solara. This means, revving the RX8 to 4K rpm max, and then shift. Cruising to at least 2K rpm but not more than 3K rpm. This is how the Solara drives. I am running this experiment on my RX8 in an attempt to solve the missing MPG mystery :p

So tell me something, has someone tried this experiment before? If so, can you share with us the results? I run 45 - 50mph in the city on 6th gear and this is at 3K+ rpm. I think it is how people drive that waste them their gas.

I'll keep you posted on my first refill.

dont bother. You will get flamed. If you get good results and post them they will criticize you and call BS. They will call you names, insult you and treat you like shit.

This is a rotary, there is no missing MPG. My Rx-8 gets slightly better gas mileage than my 94 Rx-7 which is just average.

By the way...what part of the bay area? im in east bay.

San Jose my friend. Home of the smooth roads :cool:

I currently have 115 miles on my trip meter, and the fuel gauge indicates half tank on the dot.

Xyntax, in my experience 115 miles on 1/2 tank gets me about 17 MPG, but again thats with me redlining and running High rpms all the time.

I found that 91 octain gets me best gas milage.

0banger

I do the same thing redline about 2 a trip.. driving it hard on the onramp so I can slow down to the stop and go traffic!

still get 16-17 mpg!

though I did get 21 once on a llonger trip with modest driving..

I would just let her rip where is the fun??

I agree, 17 MPG is great.
This is my 3rd rotary, Im used to gas mileage sucking big time, haha.

Originally posted by Xyntax
Hi,
I have been driving my new RX8 for 3 days now. Coming from a very fuel-efficient Toyota Solara, I'm trying to drive this fun car (RX8) as if it is the Solara. This means, revving the RX8 to 4K rpm max, and then shift. Cruising to at least 2K rpm but not more than 3K rpm. This is how the Solara drives. I am running this experiment on my RX8 in an attempt to solve the missing MPG mystery :p

So tell me something, has someone tried this experiment before? If so, can you share with us the results? I run 45 - 50mph in the city on 6th gear and this is at 3K+ rpm. I think it is how people drive that waste them their gas.

I'll keep you posted on my first refill.

Care to explain why you bought a performance car? :p

Coz I like the RX-8 since its rumor came out Ike. I've hung around this site coz i desire the RX-8. I envy the constantly-flamed RX-8 owners because they get to drive one everyday. Sound familiar to you?

http://www.scubatampa.com/images/greenguy.gif

Hey, at least I'm honest... I went and bought one. Anyways, the final reason I bought it was because the only reason I shouldn't get one was eliminiated due to a post on this site explaining that the 17 MPG average wasn't really a problem. It enlightened me that the annual maintenance on the 8 isn't as painful as some think. With that gone, I was finally ready to get one. :)

Now, I'm only doing this experiment because I'm still breaking in the car. It is also giving me comfort from not driving this car like crazy when I get tempted to ;)

My Solara wasn't really somethiing I could play with. And because it's a great car, I'm keeping it.

I thought it would be interesting to treat a "performance car" (quoting Ike) like my Solara while I'm still breaking it in. Maybe, just maybe, I could uncover something most people find annoying about the 8.

Ike, I find solutions and not flame on those who need it. I try to be useful rather than live up the "I dont care" culture that most people are so found of nowadays.

Good question though... :p

Originally posted by Xyntax
Coz I like the RX-8 since its rumor came out Ike. I've hung around this site coz i desire the RX-8. I envy the constantly-flamed RX-8 owners because they get to drive one everyday. Sound familiar to you?

http://www.scubatampa.com/images/greenguy.gif

Hey, at least I'm honest... I went and bought one. Anyways, the final reason I bought it was because the only reason I shouldn't get one was eliminiated due to a post on this site explaining that the 17 MPG average wasn't really a problem. It enlightened me that the annual maintenance on the 8 isn't as painful as some think. With that gone, I was finally ready to get one. :)

Now, I'm only doing this experiment because I'm still breaking in the car. It is also giving me comfort from not driving this car like crazy when I get tempted to ;)

My Solara wasn't really somethiing I could play with. And because it's a great car, I'm keeping it.

I thought it would be interesting to treat a "performance car" (quoting Ike) like my Solara while I'm still breaking it in. Maybe, just maybe, I could uncover something most people find annoying about the 8.

Ike, I find solutions and not flame on those who need it. I try to be useful rather than live up the "I dont care" culture that most people are so found of nowadays.

Good question though... :p

Well, it was a joking type of question and I really didn't expect an answer... But my point is who cares what kind of gas mileage it gets when you drive it like a "Solara". Anyone who drives like that regularly shouldn't own a performance car, nor should anyone that questions whether they can afford gas buy a 30+k car. But since you're breaking it in I'll let it go, this time :p By the way, if you do a search discussions very similar to this and people trying very similar things were very common. If nothing else digging up those old threads will give you something to compare your results to.

Ike

Exactly.. Just drop the clutch at 5k and rev to 9,000 in all gears.. :)

Dude, I did not know that this site actually appointed you "Police". Regardless, I'd appreciate any usefull feedback from you or anyone else. I've seen some of your arguments in this site, and I tend to agree on some of them. One question comes up though, "Why would someone waste so much time reading and responding to all threads in a forum that loves what he hates?" Heck, I love the RX-8 and this forum, and I still find it hard to find time reading and responding to all threads here. Kudos Ike!

Originally posted by Xyntax
Dude, I did not know that this site actually appointed you "Police". Regardless, I'd appreciate any usefull feedback from you or anyone else. I've seen some of your arguments in this site, and I tend to agree on some of them. One question comes up though, "Why would someone waste so much time reading and responding to all threads in a forum that loves what he hates?" Heck, I love the RX-8 and this forum, and I still find it hard to find time reading and responding to all threads here. Kudos Ike!

Why are you getting hostile and defensive? I really didn't say anything offensive and I was kiddding with my first post, lighten up!

Oh btw, I've read somewhere here that they barely use the 6th gear. Not even on freeways. I'd like to know if using the 6th gear in city driving is bad for a rotary engine. Damn, I dont want to break my car while I'm still breaking it in. lol.

Maybe Xyntax is just trying to match the EPA figures. I'm sure that he won't be driving his car like that for very long. This granny driving style has been tried by other owners already but none has achieved the EPA figures so far. Let's see how Syntax does.

Ike, for someone who does not own the RX8, you spend a helluva lot of time on this forum. The WRX forums are not as entertaining, I guess. You're not thinking of getting an 8 soon? THAT would make the headlines!

Ike, I'm cool. I like your role in this forum, it keeps a good balance and reality-check on most members here. You're famous here. I'm just being honest by asking that question. I've always wondered since I noticed you already have 1400+ posts in this site. I only have 600+ on Solaraguy.com and I'm a usual there. You just remind me of a member from that site who plays the same role... except he was a real moderator there.

Originally posted by hotpot
Ike, for someone who does not own the RX8, you spend a helluva lot of time on this forum. The WRX forums are not as entertaining, I guess. You're not thinking of getting an 8 soon? THAT would make the headlines!

Right on hotpot. Ike, I say "F the critics, do what you feel like". :cool:

Originally posted by hotpot
Maybe Xyntax is just trying to match the EPA figures. I'm sure that he won't be driving his car like that for very long. This granny driving style has been tried by other owners already but none has achieved the EPA figures so far. Let's see how Syntax does.

Ike, for someone who does not own the RX8, you spend a helluva lot of time on this forum. The WRX forums are not as entertaining, I guess. You're not thinking of getting an 8 soon? THAT would make the headlines!

Nope, no RX-8 for me, at least not in it's current form. To be honest the WRX forums are so full of info and so well established anything you could possibly want to know or talk about can be found with a search (for the most part). I post on various WRX forums a little, but more than anything else I search and read.
This site will be like that some day, and at that time mine and most other peoples posts will slow in a big way. In fact I think it's already started to happen and the overall traffic is seemingly slowing down.

Ike

I have been to WRX forums before, and yes most "past posts" are really informative. But the current posts are really boring and usually go nowhere. At least IMO based on my last visit to one over 3 months ago.

I would think most things have been discussed on this site as well, when you find people starting polls like, Best Teenage Movie; Wat duff...
I guess long term ownership/maintenance would be covered more extensively in future.

Ike, you either like him, or you hate him (a bit like Britney Spears). But he's a true car enthusiast imo.

In case anyone is still interested in the original topic: Driving around at low speeds in 6th gear is not that bad an idea provided you downshift right away if you need even moderate acceleration. Rotaries do not like to be lugged and since they don't have nearly the rotating mass of a piston engine, it's a bad idea anyhow. It also accelerates wear on the input shaft bearing of the transmission. So that's a qualified "yes".

Not sure if I understand your point.
If the rotors are lighter than pistons, surely it would take less effort to turn the rotors, hence easier to accelerate in the high gears than pistons. Or am I getting it all wrong?

I'd wish the RX8 had a mpg gauge like they have on the BMWs. On my previous beemer, I found that it helped to work out the best gears in which to drive, and it seemed pretty accurate .

I have had a mileage computer before--on my passat turbo. I learned how to milk good mileage and it means driving like our former Solara owner and being very aware of minimizing braking in stop and go driving. Also means driving at 60 or under on the highway. I drove the RX-8 like that during break-in and got 19mpg--a little better with every tank.

Now that it is broken in I have been having a blast wasting fuel.

Originally posted by Xyntax
So tell me something, has someone tried this experiment before? If so, can you share with us the results? I run 45 - 50mph in the city on 6th gear and this is at 3K+ rpm. I think it is how people drive that waste them their gas.

Hope you can stick with it! :) I tired this in 6th, but found 5th more suitable gear for around town. But on long flat suburban roads 6th and 40-45 is just fine!

Also found that acceleration from slow speeds in higher gears to be no problem whatsoever. You get decent acceleration, like a std low power car, and no 'lugging'. The rotary seems to be very forgiving of what would otherwise cause lugging in other cars, likely cause it just goes round-n-round.

In the end, for me, I just couldn't stop having fun (spin9k IS me) and so not really sure on MPG that way, it just is what I do when I'm feeling like 'regular driving', so the mix seems to always get me 17-19 mpg mostly.

Keep us posted Xyntax, welcome to the club and the forum, remember - no one will flame you if you document your experiment well, calculate mileage by the gallon not the 'tankful :( ', and don't tell all you've found a new hi-mileage driving style before you are sure it is repeatable by all. Good luck! :)

Xyntax
you dont want to break your car in driving steady in 6th gear. You need to constantly change the revs. if you take the highway keep the revs from 3K to 5000 and dont let them stay in any rev/gear for more than a couple minutes at a time. try to hit stop and go traffic also.

At least with the old 13B, I use to find that having it in too high of a gear (ie having a low RPM) actually lowered the MPG. It took more gas to get it going.

In my experience so far ... it doesn't matter how I drive .. crazy .. easy ... no matter what I do I get about 16 MPG ... basically if I drive at a constant speed on highway more I get better mileage like close to 19 and 20. Otherwise, it all seems to be the same. Car only has 947 miles on it though. We'll see, not that I care. I do wish gas prices would go lower though :)

I get much better mileage crusing around town in 6th, BUT, it's also pretty boring. So I gave up, and now my mileage is closer to 17mpg than the 20 I was getting, but I enjoy the car more. But yes, it is possible to get better mileage using 6th.

Originally posted by Elara
I get much better mileage crusing around town in 6th, BUT, it's also pretty boring. So I gave up, and now my mileage is closer to 17mpg than the 20 I was getting, but I enjoy the car more. But yes, it is possible to get better mileage using 6th.

Thank you Elara. Nice to hear from someone who has done it already. Yes I agree, 6th gear around the city IS boring :o

I probably accelerate quick about twice a day with my 8. Going from 1st to 6th on a 45mph road. That's about as much fun as I could get while breaking-in my 8 for now. Oh, and I have fishtailed it once because the road was wet that day :D

I experience an average of 16 mpg in the city which is up from the 10 mpg when I purchased the car. It had 7.5 miles on the car when I picked it up and now I have over 5,700 miles. I am agressive with the throttle about 50% of the time and don't do a lot of freeway driving on average. When I have done long trips I get an average of about 22 mpg hwy which is up from my original 16-17 mpg. So it is getting better regardless of the fact that now the car is broken in I am driving the car harder. Maybe this is good news. Either way I still want my MazdaSpeed turbo installed :D .

i am running a similar experiment myself right now. on my last tank "i drove it like i stole it" redline shifts in first second and third. never used 6th 5th occasionally on the highway and generally cruised between 4k and 6k whatever gear i was in. this tanki am doing the exact opposite. all shifts before 3.5k, into to 6th as soon as possible usually above 42mph. setting the cruise at 55 mph on the highway leaving large gaps between me and the cars in front. coasting (out of gear) to stops with minimal breaking. i'm at 60 miles with 3/4 of the tank left on the guage as of the trip into work this morning.

I don't know if any one else is experiencing the same thing as I, ever since I got the RX8; I find myself constantly monitoring the trip recorder and the fuel gauge, much more than I have ever done with any other car. I might be developing a phobia here, and it's probably due to all the talk about fuel consumption that I've been reading on this forum. Sometimes I even look forward to my next fill-up so that I can calculate the mpg, damnit! It is turning into a game with me trying to beat my previous hi-score. My hi-score so far is 18 mpg. Soon I'll be driving granny style.

Hahah, that's funny. MPG is turning into High Score eh? Well, I will be used to getting lower MPG than advertised. I did 20 - 22 MPG on my I4 Solara because I always pull it hard up to 5K rpm (redline@6K). It was fun to feel that car go from normal acceleration to "hard-pulling" acceleration after 4K rpm. It had a VVT-i in it, kinda junior to Celica's VVT-i with Lift.

But like, I mentioned, the Solara just wasn't a toy car you could play with all the time.

You'll have fun playing with your 8 but I don't know how she'll like be called a toy.

I know I'll be in the minority here... but I must say this test is not good for the engine and won't really prove anything. Listen up. Gas mileage is determined by two main factors:
1) How fast you are going
2) How much fuel you are giving the engine (which is directly related to your right foot).

The whole point of a manual transmission is because humans should be smarter than the computer. Your role? To know the optimum gear to be in for the condition you are in (eg. Incline, Corner, wind, and foresight to predict change).

Let's take the obvious example - a bike. The fuel you need is equivlant to the energy you use to move the bike. We all know that it's easy to peddle in gear 1 uphill, but difficult in gear 15. And, if we're going downhill, it's actually more difficult to spin your heart out in gear 1, while gear 15 feels just right.

I had an interesting 4 Wheel drive experment with 3 jeeps in the rocky mountains of Colorado. We filled each one before the trip near the base of the road. Two jeeps used 4x4 as soon as we hit dirt. The other jeep never came out of 2 wheel drive. It was an all day event climbing from 8K to 12K feet, through a wide range of weather (sun, rain, and hail). It was slow driving on narrow roads with cliffs, hairpin turns, and water crossings. The test has relevance because in 4x4 mode, your gear ratio is much lower, giving you more control of your engine. The 4x2 mode needed more fuel to do the same thing. The final result, was that the 2 jeeps in 4x4 were within a half mpg difference between 7 and 8 mpg. The jeep that used 2 wheel drive only got about 4.5 mpg. The course was identical. The speeds were identical. The jeeps were identical models.

The moto: Use your gears, shift often, and watch your right foot.

Yeah, Zeltar is right about the gearing. Use the gear that "feels" right. In the case of mpg, use the one that simply uses less gas. You should intuitively know which one that is at any given time, when to shift up and when to shift down. And the right foot is indeed the biggest factor.

I've heard that moderate acceleration uses less gas than very light gradual acceleration. Anybody gonna back me up on that?

Unless going downhill, I don't ever like to go below 2,500 rpm. I coast whenever it seems right.

Like most people, my driving is 80% routine trips that I know every bump in the road the whole way. Without even hardly thinking, my shift points, braking points, where I coast it, where I pass the slow pokes, etc, are done without hardly thinking about it. About the only thing that varries in those trips is how "peppy" I'm feeling, or how much in a hurry I am. I know when I'm wasting gas and when I'm conserving gas. Doesn't everyone?

I've not gone through a whole tankfull of nothing but conservative driving. I don't have the interest? I definitely don't have the willpower. Yeah, that's more like it...

My mileage is pretty consistant, but I can see the effects of cold weather on that last one. Cold weather really sux all the way around, doesn't it? Burrrr....Grrrrr! That last one was 15.8 Before that one, my worst was 17.1 & my average is now 18.9, highest was 21.3

60 mi @ 3/4 tank is not all that promising, but finish it out & lets see what you get...

Update: My fuel gauge is currently at the half-way mark and I have done only 125 miles. This is not looking so good. Maybe I'll use this oppotunity to establish a new low score, which stands at 15.9 mpg.

When calculating your mpg, make sure that you fill up the gas right to the top, until you can actually see the gas. Relying on the pump's auto shut off is not accurate enough.

Ooooh, I dunno about that. I was told to not go beyond that first auto shutoff because of some sensor in the tank. Try doing a search? My salesguy told me that. I don't remember the details, but he sounded like he was sure of himself on that matter.

Also, man, you're asking for a nasty mess.

I think if you stick to one particular pump, you can rely on consistancy.

ps, I think you're doing a little better than 15.9. Maybe 17 - 19? You may be right though, dunno...

Funny,
For me I am happy if I hit 100 miles before the 1/2 point on my tank. I am getting about 14.8 MPG now.
In the summer, I was getting about 17MPG (all city type driving).
I think that cold weather and Oxygenated (alcohol 10%) gas has lowered my MPG more than driving style. I have tried to be conservative with no affect (maybe less than 1 MPG) difference.

Originally posted by Racer X-8
Ooooh, I dunno about that. I was told to not go beyond that first auto shutoff because of some sensor in the tank. Try doing a search? My salesguy told me that. I don't remember the details, but he sounded like he was sure of himself on that matter.

Also, man, you're asking for a nasty mess.

I think if you stick to one particular pump, you can rely on consistancy.

ps, I think you're doing a little better than 15.9. Maybe 17 - 19? You may be right though, dunno...

I find that the fuel gauge needle drops faster once you get past the half-way mark. It is not linear.

Is it really bad to fill gas up to the rim? Since I buy gas from several different stations, I think that filling the tank up to the rim every time would give the most accurate mpg. Where I live we have attendants who fill up for you, and they nvever spill any gas.

i just got done doing a trip to ocean city, nj via the AC expressway. round trip 120 miles. i got about 20 MPG. i used cruise as much as possible at 66 MPH in 6th gear. it was good to know i can still get 20+ MPG highway because most of my driving is city and i get 14-15 MPG.

I was surprised yesterday. I found myself out in the middle of nowhere and the low fule lite came on. So I took it easy, not sure where the next gas station was. Well when I did get to fill up the gage was one notch below E (if there was one it would be on it). It only took 13.54 gals to fill it and I put all I could get in. So I still had over 2 gals left! Anyone find this with yours?

My low-fuel light comes on around the 1/8 mark. Haven't risked to find out how low it will go until it dries up.

When it's filled up, the needle is about 2 notches above F.

I find the fuel gauge a bit erratic. At certain points the needle drops slowly and sometimes very fast, under the same driving conditions. I've also noticed the needle dropping a notch overnight.

hey guys...i have 150 miles and im at half tank so far...so see if i can make it to 290 or even 300! this is with 70% highway =)

Update: Sucks. I refueled yesterday after getting the Empty light. Filled up 13.5 gallons at 196 miles on the trip meter.

I must admit, I have been revving it higher than I planned. Oh well. Hopefully, I wont be one of the people who complain getting 14MPG all the time.

Xyntax, if you're serious about lugging your new RX-8 around town in 6th gear to get better fuel economy, e-mail me and I'll take if off your hands.

I'm shopping for an RX-8 and buying yours would be like rescuing a puppy whose owner locks it in a closet all day and kicks it when it cries. I live in the Bay Area and I'm serious!

John be fair to Xyntax. He is in his break-in period and already stated that this is not how he planned on driving it all the time. He just wanted to experiment with his car to see if there was a way to meet or come close to the EPA standards posted on the door when he purchased it. Most of us are a little frustrated with that fact. I know that my M3 was getting the EPA listed gas mileage and I can find no reason why my 8 shouldn't as well. I drove that M3 "like it was stolen", to borrow from several posts. I am not asking Mazda to turn the 8 into a Prius I just want what I was promised. Oh and more hp too. Well and maybe a turbo would be nice...

Originally posted by itsallaboutgary
hey guys...i have 150 miles and im at half tank so far...so see if i can make it to 290 or even 300! this is with 70% highway =)

Don't rejoice so soon. As I mentioned before, the needle seems to drop faster below the half-way mark. And the gauge is not all that accurate. Let us know anyway if you get a new hi-score.

93rd, the break-in period is the worst time to lug a new engine, esp. a rotary one. (Lugging is driving at low revs and large throttle openings.) I'm surprised you got away with it on your M3 -- they have a lot of engine problems I hear -- but it's even more risky with a low-torque rotary.

People think that low revs mean being easy on the engine but this isn't true. It's low LOADS that are important. The engine works much harder at low revs and big throttle openings than it does free-revving at smaller throttle openings.

During break-in you should free-rev up to the maximum RPM permitted by the manufacturer, staying in lower gears and using minimum throttle. This means driving around town in second gear. The seals will seat and the engine will adapt to its rev range.

After it's broken in, warm it up well then drive it hard. The engine will last forever if you change the oil frequently and use premium gas.

About turbos -- this car doesn't need one, just a chip to restore its missing 20 hp. A turbo would seriously compromise its driveability. If you drive an 8 like it needs to be driven (keep the revs UP), it will not be short of power at 250 hp. Hell, it's quite acceptable stock.

If you wanna drag race, get a Mitsu Lancer Evo. Drag racing an 8 is a bad idea of a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that you will lose to inferior cars nearly every time.

- johncalifornia, rotaryhead since 1970 (Mazda R100)

Good input johncalifornia. Thanks. After I finish this tank of gas I filled, I will try your suggestion. I'm trying out the granny style driving on my first 2 tanks. And then another 2 tanks at john-style driving. I will stop experimenting when this 8 reaches 1K and start having fun. Any other suggestions as to how to drive my other future tanks of gas before 1K miles?

btw, I dont get it when you said "big throttle openings at low RPMs" and "small throttle openings at high RPMs". I thought high RPMs mean bigger throttle openings (thus the 3rd intake port that opens at 6250 RPM) and low RPMs mean smaller throttle openings. I'm not sure if it is different on a rotary, care to explain?

johncalifornia

I'm no expert on that matter (this is my first rotary), but you're not the only one here, and that's the first time I've heard that.

"During break-in you should free-rev up to the maximum RPM permitted by the manufacturer..." is the part I'm refering to. Since Mazda does not specify a "break-in" period, I'm taking it that you're saying to go to 9k rpm right out of the dealership, and keep her up there?!?

My my my... I don't think so...

Lucky for me, the light-on-the-throttle part was adhered to by me. I kept it under 4500 rpms for the first 600 miles though, like most everybody else here.

Originally posted by Xyntax
Good input johncalifornia. Thanks. After I finish this tank of gas I filled, I will try your suggestion. I'm trying out the granny style driving on my first 2 tanks. And then another 2 tanks at john-style driving. I will stop experimenting when this 8 reaches 1K and start having fun. Any other suggestions as to how to drive my other future tanks of gas before 1K miles?


I'll take up your offer since you seem keen to experiment.

1. Drive till your empty warning light comes on. Reset your trip counter and drive until you run out of gas and the car comes to a stand-still. Let me know how many miles you get from the point the empty light comes on.

2. Drive in reverse and see if you get better mileage, first granny style, then all-hell-breaks-loose style. Compare results.

Thanks mate.

John,

"I'm surprised you got away with it on your M3 -- they have a lot of engine problems I hear -- but it's even more risky with a low-torque rotary."

I never said I drove my M3 at low rpms actually I said I drove it like I stole it. Last time I watched COPS and saw car thieves evading police the last thing there were doing was watching their rpms. And as for the break in period I was told by several Rotary Enthusiasts (and yes they own rotarys) to drive it at lower rpms while breaking it in. Not "lugging" the engine but keeping it below 6k rpms for the first 600 miles.

"People think that low revs mean being easy on the engine but this isn't true. It's low LOADS that are important. The engine works much harder at low revs and big throttle openings than it does free-revving at smaller throttle openings."

I certainly understand this principle quite well and should since I used to race mountain bikes when I was in college. You should keep the load off the engine by selecting a gear ratio that gives you more torque when trying to jump on the gas or climb a hill, correct. I believe that the experimenter indicated that he was not "lugging" the engine.

"During break-in you should free-rev up to the maximum RPM permitted by the manufacturer, staying in lower gears and using minimum throttle. This means driving around town in second gear. The seals will seat and the engine will adapt to its rev range."

The dealer and the manual both disagree with you. As well as most of the people on this sight who are concerned about warranty issues. I have owned several cars as well as some built for racing (I won't bore anyone here with details since I have already posted before) and when I would do rebuilds or serious engine upgrades I would always allow my car some time to "seat itself" before it saw WOT and redlines.

"About turbos -- this car doesn't need one, just a chip to restore its missing 20 hp. A turbo would seriously compromise its driveability. If you drive an 8 like it needs to be driven (keep the revs UP), it will not be short of power at 250 hp. Hell, it's quite acceptable stock."

There are many of us who disagree with you about the turbos. I am used to beefier cars and would love a 350 hp RX-8. I would also like a bit more torque. Not everyone feels the need for it and that's great I'm glad that you have an opinion but I personally love the feel if 15psi+ boost and the whine as the turbo spools up. My cars have always been sleepers. You know that guy who just looks like he has a nice rims and maybe it's a little bit lower. But when he gets on the gas it's a whole different story. My RX-8 lacks that for now.

"If you wanna drag race, get a Mitsu Lancer Evo. Drag racing an 8 is a bad idea of a bunch of reasons, not the least of which is that you will lose to inferior cars nearly every time."

I don't want to drag race but I do want to auto-x. And I want to do it in style. If I did want to drag race I would blow-up a civic. They are cheaper and I can justify cutting them up better.

mpg update: As expected I've achieved a new low score of 15.57 mpg on my last tank. This included 80 miles of very hard driving and 150 miles of moderate to quick driving. I always shift to 6th gear as soon as possible except when driving hard where 6th gear is used on long straights.

Overall average mpg after 2000 miles is 16.82.
The fuel consumption does not seem to get better with time. Did an oil change a week ago too.

I just passed 1100 miles on my 8. During the break in period, I varied the RPMs as much as (1) the max RPM for that mileage block allowed (using the Mazdaspeed regime); and (2) local traffic conditions allowed. I did not use the cruise control other than a very short test to verify it was functioning.

My first four tanks worked out to 17.2 MPG, 18.1 MPG, 18.6 MPG and 18.1 MPG. That last tank included some blatantly illegal speeds once the engine was good and warm. I changed the oil at 725 miles.

My last tank was 19.1 MPG. My daily commute (100+ miles round trip) is mostly highway with some stop-n-go in the evenings. When I'm in the stop-n-go, I usually find myself staying in 3rd or 4th to provide a pleasant driving experience while remaining high enough in the band to accelerate when necessary.

Once I turn down my 2-lane country road (now with twisties!), I usually rev in 2nd to near redline if possible for both the nearly orgasmic sound of the wankel and the need for speed.

I try to balance between the fun quotient and the gas bill. I hope to see regular tanks nearer 20, but I didn't buy the 8 for the MPG. The budgeted target is 18 MPG.

Q12, you're doing it right! Breaking the car in properly is the best way to get optimal fuel economy later. In the 8's case, optimal is probably in the low 20s.

Xyntax, keep it one gear lower than you think you should and you will be driving at small throttle openings. Try it!

93rd - I was wrong about suggesting you lugged your M3, a misreading on my part, and I apologize! OTOH, I was not advocating red-lining an 8 before break-in, merely "spinning" it through its permitted rev range.

About auto-x'ing an 8 -- I wouldn't bother. The wheelbase is too long for starters. (I've been auto-x'ing since the early 70s but hey, I might be wrong! Spend $10K preparing your car for serious auto-x and let us know how you're doing.)

IMHO auto-x'ing an 8 is nearly as bad an idea as drag racing one. Sort of like asking Seabiscuit to race a bunch of chihuahuas around a kitchen table.

johncalifornia,

Apology accepted, and I misunderstood whether you were speaking of redlining so let me apologize about that accusation.

You should do a search for the "Top Gear" video. It is really cool but one thing that made it stand out to me was the track time of the RX-8. Stock it had the same time on the track course as the M3 and the 350Z. So without any suspension or hp upgrades it does fairly well against much more expensive cars.

One of the things that I noticed when I test drove the RX-8 was that it seemed to corner better than my M3 did. After seeing the Top Gear video I understand that it must corner better otherwise the higher hp cars would be all over it.

I realize that many people buy their cars for different reasons and I bought mine because I love to drive. Not just distances but I like to drive fast and hard at times. I have raced in the past on the street and, while I am not saying anyone should do that, it did teach me quite a bit about how much fun cars can be if given the proper respect and upgrade them in the right ways. I don't race on the street any more (not very often anyway) so I am looking to do more with the car clubs around here and to get more track time to fill that void left somewhere around my right foot. Coming from high hp cars and can see where this one could be improved just slightly to compete and win against the likes of the S2000, 350Z, M3, and other ricers.

93rd: The 8's speed through Road & Track's 700-foot slalom is only 65.4 mph. Relative to other cars in its class, it's about the slowest. (The M3's is 68.3. The frickin Mitsu Lancer's is 68.9!)

The reason is relatively poor transient response, caused by the car's soft suspension. If you want to auto-x this car you'll have to stiffen the damping considerably, as well as replace the springs and bushings. This would cost you the beautiful ride now delivered by the RX-8.

Just as it is, the 8 handles superbly on real roads. Road handling, as you know, is not the same as race handling. In fact, it's not an exaggeration to say that one is the opposite of the other.

(Car & Driver did a racetrack comparo of the 8 vs the Z and the Mustang Cobra. The 8's track times were way slower due to the power difference. Still, the 8 won the comparo decisively.)

I would not want the 8's suspension to be an iota stiffer than it is. As with the car's original 250 hp, the stock specification meets the car's mission more than adequately.

To my mind the 8's mission is to be the opposite of the RX7 -- in other words, a practical and comfortable daily driver with the exotic appeal of a rotary -- while continuing to deliver a world-class driving experience. (That is, like a Miata it is just sheer pleasure to drive at any speed.)

The new 7 will have excellent transient response, count on it. But making a 7 out of the 8 via suspension tuning and aftermarket turbo would be like trying to make an orange out of an apple. You'd end up with Roseanne Barr.

johncalifornia,

I will make it simple for you here is the link http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andy.wray/topgear.wmv . I know that this show is very respected in the UK and most of Europe. They may have used a different technique and pushed the car harder than the american drivers but they had the same driver in all three cars. Also, it is interesting to note that the driver was obviously driving the car with the DSC turned off. I wonder if the C&D or R&D boys were doing that?

Fun video, but did you really consider that an informed review? The guy was wrong on a number of factual points, and his arrogant attitude and put-down of the car's styling were typical of the overblown, snobby style that's popular with the Brits right now to the point of nausea. (Think of Simon on American Idol.) Plus, I hate the way he reversed his "best car" verdict in front of the TV audience.

Though it's completely corn-ball (you have to be obese to work there), US-produced Motorweek is a great deal more knowledgeable and reliable as a TV auto review show, IMHO.

Yes, the Brit was driving tail-out without DSC on a (partly) watered track -- actually an airport converted to a track: pancake flat and lots of 90-degree corners.

(Car & Driver also said there is no more forgiving car to drive tail-out than the 8. Why anybody would want DSC on this car is beyond me. Even in bad weather I'd leave it off, so why pay for it in the first place? DSC for little old ladies in Cadillacs! Like ABS, DSC is the first thing people turn off when they get to the race track.)

The "track" the Brits tested on was tight and short (lap times around 1:32 in street cars). That would explain how the 8 could turn times equivalent to more powerful cars like the Z and M3. They all corner about about the same speed, ultimately limited by their street tires. Put them on a "faster" track like Mid Ohio or Laguna Seca and the more powerful cars would be gone. It's just physics.

Anyway, I really don't care how the 8 does on a race track. It's the superb driving experience on the road that has sold me on the car.

Let me put it another way: If the car was faster at the race track I probably wouldn't want it because it would not be as fantastic on the street.

Oh yes, and that English a**hole can put his opinion about the car's styling in the same place he keeps his British Motor Corporation stocks. The RX-8 is one of the most beautiful cars on the road -- if you have the imagination to appreciate it.

I think that it is just the British style. I know a few Brits who think the same thing about Americans. Hell I'm damn sure there are a few countries out there that think we are more than a little pushy or snobbish. Anyhow, you are right that is a short track and given a long straight away the other cars would begin to pull away.

I am glad that you are happy with your RX-8 just the way it is, and I will say it again, I will be happier when mine performs better than my M3. I could have bought the '04 M3 but decided to save some money and get the RX-8 only to deal with hp issues later. Suspension may or may not happen haven't decided. Tires are a must.

I'd say we now see each other's point of view pretty well.

You probably already know this, but if you make your 8 faster than an M3 it won't be an 8 anymore.

A few years ago I put $20K into a Miata and ended up with something that could turn the quarter in 13 secs and felt right at home drifting sideways on the track. It was still driveable and reliable -- only problem was, it wasn't a Miata anymore.

After a few months of getting my kidneys rattled, I sold it and bought another Miata which after two years remains bog stock -- not even a K&N air filter. I much prefer it to my "faster" one.

To each his own.

UPDATE!

after more than a week of grueling granny driving style i have a new MPG figure. remeber for the previous tank of always on the revs, never using 6th and running to the redline in 1st 2nd an 3rd(when able) i got 12.2 mpg. for this tank of exactly opposite driving the same routes i got-------------15.12 mpg. i have in the past made 17.5 mpg without trying to drive in any particular fashion but using the same routes.

so my conclusion is this: quit checking your mileage!! drive the friggin thing. and quit worrying about it. you will be much better off. check it once in awhile if you need to but just don't fuss about it. rev it to 9k a couple of times per week and the car will be happier for it.

Johncalifornia,

I upgraded a '91 MR2 to 575 hp. I did some very extensive suspension and brake work, Turbonetics stage II upgrade, Supra fuel rail, HKS Superdragger Exhaust, etc., etc. I loved it but I couldn't let anyone drive it because it was just on the edge of controllability if you weren't used to driving such high hp cars. That is just what I like only due to winters up hear I won't get too crazy. Plus I think that my tastes have changed in the last 5 years and I would rather keep it under 400 hp. I am no longer trying to be the fastest SOB on the road.

I am comming from a gasoline car. So I drive my RX-8 ... like a lorry !
It is very silent and smooth, and when power is needed, I drop from the 5th to the 3rd (which is more than dropping from 6th to third on a 6MT)
Silent ... but still 13.2 MPG in city center !
However, I get comfortable range on the road with 24.5 MPG when driving that way... no need to brake or accelerate ... the RX-8 almost swallows any curve at any speed, and the seat keeps me at the right place (I exagerate a little).

Update: Ok, so I load up with 87 Chevron now. I've tried different companies (all 87 octane) such as Chevron, 76, World Oil, etc. So far Chevron gives me the best mileage and smoothness.

I have driven spirited and granny using 87, but the difference is only 1 mpg :D

Redlining on a freeway entrance and driving 4th gear most of the time gave me 14mpg. In the opposite of that, driving into the freeway entrance with 5th gear engaged already and then cruising with 6th, I am getting 15mpg.

Sucks huh? So now I just drive my 8 the way I feel (cruise on the freeway at 5K rpm+)

btw, City driving is at 4th gear @ 45mph. That's my usual cruise.

FYI folks, I've been trying an experiment of my own, and have gotten 18 MPG in the city.

Check this thread (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21292) for more info.

Please don't...you'll get flamed to death. the rotary is not an engine that is meant to be driven like that. it is meant to be revving high. maybe not redline every shift (DUH) but like at least 4,500 to 6,000 rpm's.

why not just shift were the owners book says?

why not just shift were the owners book says?

welcome to rx8club. the date for each post in in the upper left-hand corner. Happy modding :)

I try to get into 6th asap on the 8. I guess every little tenth of a gallon helps.

Holy Thread Revival!

Didn't realize this.ha

Premium gas is $3.60 here. The $2 difference from 87 octane per tank isn't ever going to matter to me.

I just can't think of another car that gets 30+ mpg that I'd like to drive compared to the 8. 20 gallons, $70, 80, 150($7.50/gal) a month. I may try to figure out how to drive less but I'm keeping the 8. :)

Maybe get yourself a Jetta GLI. Nice, comfy. Not an 8, no big grin :P

:) NH

If you put it into 6th too early, wouldnt your engine have to work harder yielding bad MPG. I could be wrong but If i shifted into 6th at 30 and started going up a steep hill and had to floor the car to keep it rolling........I wouldnt expect good gas mileage. Also, arent these cars supposed to be revved up!! All the money you are going to save on gas youll have to pay back for a new engine at 35,000 due to carbon build up.

Putting the car in 6th gear at low RPMs will yield you bad MPG, right? I mean, you're in a higher gear, to accelerate actually, you'll have to put the pedal down more, adding more fuel to the engine...or am I way off course?

Putting the car in 6th gear at low RPMs will yield you bad MPG, right? I mean, you're in a higher gear, to accelerate actually, you'll have to put the pedal down more, adding more fuel to the engine...or am I way off course?

:lol: I just asked that?!

:lol: I just asked that?!

:lol2: well, ,guess that's what I get for not reading before posting?

LOL was a great thread revival and interesting read.

I've never really experimented w/mpg before... my commute is 100 miles round trip, I reach a quarter tank by the end of the second day and fill up, except for last night. Today I drove the 50 miles in to work, filled up, it was about 13.3 gallons. So I guess I'm not doing too bad. Commute consists of highway speed of 70 - 75, then stop and go traffic for the last 20 miles.

This thread is cracking me up. I get 9mpg in my current car which is for sale. I am going to buy an RX8 once I sell it.

Put your car in gear, rev, pop clutch, redline, shift to second and repeat rev and redline part until you run out of gears or hit traffic.

The smile on your face while you are paying you gas bill will be offset by the enjoyment you get.

There, problem solved. :)

I have an idea! Let's see who can go through the LEAST amount of miles for a tank of gas!

Now that would be a worthy experiment.

9MPG? ouch

Ouch is an understatement. Now you know why I am in the market for an RX8. In my mind it is practically a Prius in the gas mileage world!

Holy old thread Batman!