Rap these days suk, they rap about cars,hoes,rims,and killing people, now that jay-z left, theres not much talent out, we still have Nas but hes gonna leave soon, i havent seen Wu-tang around, now we gotta listen to crap by G-Unit and that wigger Eminem, and gotta listen to Lil'Jon rap about prostitutes, i say rap/hip-hop will die in years

I never could see how anyone can even consider Rap to be called music in the first place. God awful noise and stupid, vulgar language.

Long live classic Rock & Roll !!!!!!!

I suppose I just gave away my age? :)
Did our parents think the same thing about our music back in the 60's & 70's ? Oh my gosh, I think I have become my parents........

What's with these stupid polls. Knock it off, pimp!

Right with you there, Sea Ray. But I have 13 & 15 year old sons who both are right in my footsteps, musically anyway. Sure, they are ahead of me in keeping up with the new stuff, but it's the good new stuff.

Now, one may say, sure, but why can't you appreciate both types of music? I say there aint enough time in the day, when there's so much good stuff to listen to.

I wish now I could remember the guys playing on PBS last night around 1-2am. GREAT blues, live & semi-jammed. GREAT stuff.

I enjoyed a bit of that Lou Rawls show last night as well. Sorry, but who was the girl who was knocking-out that gospel singing? SO FINE! What a voice!!!! She's real popular, my memory at least for right now - sux. :(

My 15 year old bought a new headset this weekend and was trying them out & asked if I wanted to hear them. I said, "sure", so he gave them to me & I put 'em on. What was he listening to? Pink Floyd "Dark Side of the Moon"!!! 'Nuf said? :D

edit: OMG!! I just found the "Best Decade of Rock" poll, started by 8 Wannabe, where "Dark Side of the Moon" was mentioned in high regard by same. :D Small world. Hehe! I swear! I didn't get to play all weekend here & I'm trying to catch-up. Wow!

Originally posted by mental pimp
Rap these days suk, they rap about cars,hoes,rims,and killing people, now that jay-z left, theres not much talent out, we still have Nas but hes gonna leave soon, i havent seen Wu-tang around, now we gotta listen to crap by G-Unit and that wigger Eminem, and gotta listen to Lil'Jon rap about prostitutes, i say rap/hip-hop will die in years

Wu is working on a record and should be out later this year. My fav group of all time is A Tribe Called Quest but they broke up. I hope Q-Tip comes out with something soon. I've always loved the Beastie Boys which are working on a record. Talib Kweli, The Roots, Jurassic 5, Common, Mos Def, etc.. are still out there making good records. It's just that they aren't mainstream.

People said rap was just a fad when it came out, and since then when some phase of rap doesn't agree with people they proclaim it's dead. It's not going anywhere and is here to stay. In addition Eminem is probably even at this early stage in his career one of the greatest rappers of all time and is a brilliant lyricist and songwriter.

In this past year we've also seen some of the best albums of the year be hip hop, including the Black Album from Jay Z, Outkast's Speakerboxx/The love below, 50 Cent's debut, Joe Budden, Bubba Sparxxx's Deliverance, and Dizzee Rascal with his genre crossing Boy in Da Corner (loved this one).

Ike

rap isn't even close to dead

50 cent helped last year a lot

rap isnt dead, its just hiding out in the 'underground'.

Originally posted by Racer X-8
OMG!! I just found the "Best Decade of Rock" poll, started by 8 Wannabe, where "Dark Side of the Moon" was mentioned in high regard by same. :D Small world. Hehe! I swear! I didn't get to play all weekend here & I'm trying to catch-up. Wow! Yeah, but read further down in that post where I tie in kids, dope and DSOTM. And watch ur kids. :D Just kidding, any kids who listen to great rock like that gotta be ok. My 15-yr-old son has been to Aerosmith, Journey, Styx, REO concerts with me; we both love it.

Rap isn't dead and it doesn't all suck. You just have to dig a little bit to find the talent. The problem is that radio is all mainstream and mainstream is dictated by a bunch of teenagers who only listen to what thier friends tell them to.

-JiM

I dont like rap, but to say any music style is dead is just presumptious in the extreme. It might not be as popular as it's heyday, but there are no dead music styles at all.

No, rap isn't dead.
However, for the vast majority of rap's fans, it was never alive to begin with.

You can pretty much assume that anything musical that is offered as a commercial endeavor is going to be the furthest thing from good that is possible.
It isn't that the "artists" don't mean well, but record companies are in the business of fleecing the listener and don't have the time to deal with "artists" that I have a real concept of what they want to say and accomplish musically.

I've been a professional musician (its my only "real" job and I come from a poor family, but I own several cars/motorcycles, a house and I travel to Europe a lot - so you be the judge of what "professional musician" really means to you) for my entire adult life so I can say I've played a lot of different styles of music.
Universally, the stuff the audience wants to hear never even scratches the surface of whats real in the various styles.

Pop music is pop music from Mozart to today. It makes no difference.

RAP = CRAP...

Ike...there is no SONGWRITING in RAP...it's a bunch of yelling and screaming hoods that disrespect women, and everything else. and don't come back saying that, "it's some story of how "mr. rapper" grew up in the hood and how he made it from the ghetto to fame and all the "drama" he experienced doing so"...

BULLSHIT!....if i wanted to find out what happens in the ghetto i would read the obituary in the local news...

nothing but a bunch of disrespectful thugs making money to buy more guns to kill each other and other innocent bystanders...

I don't particularly like rap, but to say that there are no lyrically inclined writers amongst the rap community is stereotyping.

I haven't heard much of 50 Cent and some of the other new ones, but from radio play, I would say they have very little talent. At the same time, however, I thought the same of Eminem, until I heard a few of his albums and realised how well he can write. I also found that the same goes for much of Superfan's list: Jurassic 5, Roots, Tribe Called Quest, and Beastie Boys. And I'm sure there are countless others out there that are just as good lyrically as any from Rock.

From dictionary.com:

Music-

The art of arranging sounds in time so as to produce a continuous, unified, and evocative composition, as through melody, harmony, rhythm, and timbre. Vocal or instrumental sounds possessing a degree of melody, harmony, or rhythm.

A musical composition. The written or printed score for such a composition. Such scores considered as a group: We keep our music in a stack near the piano. A musical accompaniment. A particular category or kind of music. An aesthetically pleasing or harmonious sound or combination of sounds: the music of the wind in the pines.
-----------
By definition above they are musicians, talent-less as many think.

But where does the aesthetically pleasing part come in regards to rap?

Originally posted by Sea Ray
But where does the aesthetically pleasing part come in regards to rap?

Well, obviously, rap music is aesthetically pleasing to someone or they wouldn't bother attempting it, let alone listening to it.

There are places in this world where "conventional" tonal music seems dissonant because the musical vocabulary is different.
Just because one person or another finds it abrasive does not negate the possibility of it be aesthetically pleasing.

All one has to do is pick up a book by Immanuel Kant (don't read it, just heft it) to realize there is a lot going on in aesthetics.

For that matter, just do an informal poll of every Civic you see drive by to get an idea of what I'm talking about.:p

God i hope it dies SOON !!!

Originally posted by Red Devil
I don't particularly like rap, but to say that there are no lyrically inclined writers amongst the rap community is stereotyping.

I haven't heard much of 50 Cent and some of the other new ones, but from radio play, I would say they have very little talent. At the same time, however, I thought the same of Eminem, until I heard a few of his albums and realised how well he can write. I also found that the same goes for much of Superfan's list: Jurassic 5, Roots, Tribe Called Quest, and Beastie Boys. And I'm sure there are countless others out there that are just as good lyrically as any from Rock.

I hated 50 cents in da club, but I got his CD anyway, it's really a great rap CD and one of the best CDs of the year in any genre. In general mainstream rap has always been garbage, but Eminem did something to change that. Once you really listen to his songs and realize how he twists lyrics you'll be amazed. It requires every bit as much talent if not moreso than singing a beautiful melody. The funny thing is, the people the most heavily critisize rap couldn't rap decently to save their lives, but could probably sing a song decently.

Listen closely to something from Common, Public enemy, Tribe Called Quest, Eminem, KRS-1, and you'll quickly realize it's about a hell of a lot more than yelling and screaming and disrespecting women.

I love all types of music so don't think for a second I think Rap is the end all be all of music, but it will always have a place in my music collection.

Right now in my various CD players I have Outkast, Joni Mitchell, Bob Dylan, the Talking Heads, David Bowie, Jay-Z, Beastie Boys, Nas, The Whitestripes, Dizzee Rascal, Coldplay, The Clash, New Order, Bjork, Beck, The Darkness, 50 Cent, The Strokes, Pink Ffloyd, Miles Davis, Billy Holiday, Common, KRS-1, Queens of the Stoneage, The New Pornographers, Elvis Costello, Weezer, The Yard Birds, Pulp, Stevie Wonder, Peter Tosh, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, CCR, and Muddy Waters just to name a few.

I've held off voting cuz I couldn't make up my mind between Rock and Stupid Poll, though this poll is no dumber than the ones I did (best Baseball and Football movies.) I turn 46 next month; I've got a 15-yr-old son and I will admit I like eminem. At first hated him cuz I couldn't see past the shouting and vulgarity, but many of his songs are lyrically beautiful and all of them evoke strong emotion. His talent is endless, and i expect the same is true of Dre. So I am voting "Maybe" for this poll.

Originally posted by XeRo
RAP = CRAP...

Ike...there is no SONGWRITING in RAP...it's a bunch of yelling and screaming hoods that disrespect women, and everything else. and don't come back saying that, "it's some story of how "mr. rapper" grew up in the hood and how he made it from the ghetto to fame and all the "drama" he experienced doing so"...

BULLSHIT!....if i wanted to find out what happens in the ghetto i would read the obituary in the local news...

nothing but a bunch of disrespectful thugs making money to buy more guns to kill each other and other innocent bystanders...

wow, you are just so wrong. period

true, hes plainly wrong, thats what most of ignorant people say, true that rap these days sucks, but some guys really have skills, now mike, 50 Cent is not that good so hes not helping rap.

i keep seeing eminems name pop up, do you think hes the only white rapper out there today?

if the U.S would stop using up all the money for wars and supplying Israel Billions of money to slaughter the palestinians they should provide the poor black communites.

Originally posted by complex
i keep seeing eminems name pop up, do you think hes the only white rapper out there today?

hes not the only one out, but he sure is the best white rapper, there is someone else but hes half black so he shouldnt be called a wigger, anyways, eminem is stupid and wack, stupid wigger

Originally posted by mental pimp
hes not the only one out, but he sure is the best white rapper, there is someone else but hes half black so he shouldnt be called a wigger, anyways, eminem is stupid and wack, stupid wigger

hes not the best white rapper, only the most well known. i dunno who your talking about being half black becuase i know theres atleast 50 other white rappers i can list if i took my time.

well im talking about a rapper called Slug who is in a band called Atmosphere, hes doesnt try to be black like most of the white rappers, anyways hes half black so its ok, and hes as good as Biggie and Pac

http://www.hiphop-elements.com/pv/1227/

anyone who cares, you can listen to some of the samples they got on the site and tell me what you think.

im not a big atmosphere or slug fan but theyr ok.

Originally posted by mental pimp
if the U.S would stop using up all the money for wars and supplying Israel Billions of money to slaughter the palestinians they should provide the poor black communites.
Ok - training time out, little camper. Keep it on topic, keep it to yourself, or take it to another thread.

What's a wigger?

lol, a white person who is trying to be black, he wears over sized clothes, wears du-rags, and crap like that, check this out
www.wiggaz.com

Oh! A white...

Ok Duh...

http://www.wiggaz.com/euros/bigpimpin.jpg

http://www.wiggaz.com/photo/thug_mike.jpg

http://www.wiggaz.com/photo/gangstas.jpg

http://www.wiggaz.com/photo/young.jpg

http://www.wiggaz.com/photo/cover.jpg

These are wiggers :D

Really? They just look like stupid whites. ;-)

Straight out of seeing Wigger Wonka and his Chocolate Factory?

How precious! And is that a chocolate firearm that he's dangling?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Really? They just look like stupid whites. ;-)

That's exactly what they are. I find the word wigger very offensive, and yes there are kids out there that try to portray black stereotypes, but I don't see the need to label them with an offensive term. But that's what they are trying to be like, a stereotype, they aren't trying to be black. Eminem is hardly a "wigger", I find him to be quite real and I see him as being very true to himself and everyone else. He is what he is, he's not trying to live up to some image or stereotype. Other than the Beastie Boys, and Eminem the only White Rapper I've ever heard that was worth a damn is Bubba Sparxx. Maybe Everlast when he doesn't rap so much...

the beastie boys are cool. enima doesnt do anything for me. he doesnt have to live up to an image because he's been marketed for young society via social engineering as has britney, etc. if he has any talent i dont see it. he certainly cant act. ive just never connected with rap although i am deeply interested in music.

Agreed, Ike.

How about Bob Dylan?

Originally posted by Racer X-8
Agreed, Ike.

How about Bob Dylan?

One of the greatest song writers ever, if not the greatest. I'm sure I'll take some heat for this, but some day Eminem may be mentioned as one of the greatest as well, though he's got a lot of work to do before that happens. I don't care what anyone says, he's one hell of a rapper and song writer, and I thought he was a pretty good actor as well. The role in 8 mile wasn't a stretch by any means, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have screwed it up. I thought Tupac was a good actor as well, he was just in some bad movies...

yea dylan no doubt is a prolfic singer/songwriter. One of my favorite songs is Hurricane.

Originally posted by RX-GR8
yea dylan no doubt is a prolfic singer/songwriter. One of my favorite songs is Hurricane. Yeah. I'm I talking stupid or does it seem like rappers have him to aspire to? Surely, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a note from his mouth, so he more or less spoke the song with just a little bit of melody. Maybe he could have picked up a tip from today's rappers, in that he didn't even have to try to sing at all. :) No, just kidding, actually, his singing fit his songs very well. They wouldn't be what they are today without his style of singing. A very individual style indeed.

I was sitting here with Dylan singing in my head and thinking about what you wrote "marketed for young society via social engineering". Yeah, commercialism in today's entertainment world is out of hand. People trying to be all they can be in the movie world & they give the movie rolls to rappers & singers, because they're already popular & will sell at the box office. A no-risk pick. It strangles the life out of the new talent as well as the talent of the rappers & singers who are wasting their real talent on trying to be an actor/actress. Whitney? :cool:

Then there's Arnold. What the heck?

Originally posted by Racer X-8
Yeah. I'm I talking stupid or does it seem like rappers have him to aspire to? Surely, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a note from his mouth, so he more or less spoke the song with just a little bit of melody. Maybe he could have picked up a tip from today's rappers, in that he didn't even have to try to sing at all. :) No, just kidding, actually, his singing fit his songs very well. They wouldn't be what they are today without his style of singing. A very individual style indeed.

I was sitting here with Dylan singing in my head and thinking about what you wrote "marketed for young society via social engineering". Yeah, commercialism in today's entertainment world is out of hand. People trying to be all they can be in the movie world & they give the movie rolls to rappers & singers, because they're already popular & will sell at the box office. A no-risk pick. It strangles the life out of the new talent as well as the talent of the rappers & singers who are wasting their real talent on trying to be an actor/actress. Whitney? :cool:

Then there's Arnold. What the heck?

Listen to the lyrics for Hurricane. It could easily be translated into a rap song. Maybe be it already has?

Many many of his songs could, I'm listening to Shelter From the Storm right now. Great song!

Listening to Tangled up in Blue now, could totally be a rap song. Probs to the original rapper Bob Dylan :D

how can u find the word wigger offensive? its a nick names for black wannabes, they should get taken to a black neighborhood and see what happens to them

mental: Please. Like you know the getto right?

Any kind of derogatory term when used as such is bad. Especially one that is obviously based off another racial slur.

First, Ike I agree with you about Eminem. Someday, he will be mentioned on the level of songwriting with Dylan.

Second, use of the word "wigger" is outright wrong. I said that word once around some of my black friends and they took it very personally. I've been friends with them since childhood, so it wasn't too bad, but they also warned me to never use the language again because other blacks wouldn't know I wasn't a racist. Bottom line is, people should be careful how they want to use these derrogatory terms and who they might impact or effect. The same goes for "white-trash".

Originally posted by mikeb
wow, you are just so wrong. period


Sorry I'm not "so wrong".....<--alot of periods...

I'm not into stereotyping at all and I'm not racist. I have a huge musical background and i try to give everyone a chance, but the deal is RAP carries the connotation of vulgarity and crime with it. I have been priviledged to travel all over as I am a "world traveller", and time after time, be it "american rap", "mexican rap", even "RUSSIAN rap (yes it exists...), it all carries with it an aura of intense emotion that is uncontrolled and is like a nuclear bomb, it affects even the most innocent...

I used to listen to rap a LONG time ago but it was called Hip Hop back then, when it was real and all about a VERBAL faceoff...people like your South Central lunatics, Snoop, Dre..and all there followers (while I would admit Snoop and Dre's first album was great) turned it into a gangster type thing and instead of being MEN about it they turned to using it as a motivating tool for going out and killing...

It's the same as that death metal crap you can't even understand what the hell the guy is yelling about....

It just evokes a sense of anarchy and the MAJORITY of the people and followers of this "genre" (i don't even want to call it music) are THUGS i'm sorry...sure you have your white guys acting stupid but what the HELL IS THE POINT....I'm just going to go bang on my brothers bass drum and scream, "bitches, clubs, dubs, and hennesey" and make a FU$#ING record!!

xero
you have some good points
but rap is not all guns and bitches

you have to understand the lyrics and where they come from

Originally posted by mikeb
xero
you have some good points
but rap is not all guns and bitches Yeah, don't forget the drugs and booze...

and rims and money

Originally posted by f1michel
God i hope it dies SOON !!!

Same here. I'm so tired of putting up with punks working on their ricers or driving by with the music blaring obscenities, especially in residential areas with young children around. I walked over to a neighbor's house once and slammed down his trunk lid when my 4-year-old was playing outside. Told him to have a little consideration.

It's too bad that kids feel the need to play that kind of music to get attention, or to think that they're cool. If you want to get noticed, try swimming upstream instead of going with the flow.

There is no excuse for exposing others to words that aren't allowed by the FCC, and those that do are inconsiderate morons. If I've offended anyone on this board by saying so, you'll get no apology from me.

you people are stereotyping the music and putting it in 1 negative category.open up your minds and listen to some real rap music before you talk about the genre please.

how dense can u really be mental?

let's break this down...

"wigger" is a combination of 'white' and an extremely offensive, derogatory term for black people.

u said:
Originally posted by mental pimp
how can u find the word wigger offensive? its a nick names for black wannabes...
thus, based on your own words, black people (or, more specifically the black people that these white people are emulating) are "niggers".

now...take it from a black man...if u don't really feel that way...if you're not really a racist...if u don't "mean anything by it," stop using that word. use something more accurate like wack or wafrican-american. you're not not coming off as "cool" by using it...you're simply advertising your ignorance.

and to reiterate what Ike said in an earlier post...those kids aren't emulating "black people" in general as your statement implies. they're wrapping themselves up in what has become the "black" stereotype.

(on another note, i can't believe that u didn't get a mod warning for using that word. what does that say?...)

back on topic:

rap isn't dead. i'm with all the folks that mentioned groups like the roots, tribe called quest, jurassic five, black eyed peas, public enemy, common et al. this is a very small list of what are known as "conscious hip-hop artist's". they're not rapping about hoes, blunts and bragging about how much ice they have on their wrists. on the contrary, they're trying to enlighten people with their music. that's the type of rap i like and the type that i think the people that say it's all about bitches and cars, etc. are missing.

well i use the word wigger to insult the white kids trying to be black, i never knew that black people would be a affected by it, and i live in miami , home of the cuban wiggers, so c'mon, i see it everyday.....i cant help it

yea exactly people that think that rap is only about hoes,cars,money ect ect, are dumb too, but what MTV and BET shows us is complete garbage, and thats why im saying rap will die soon, im aware of a lot of talented artists but theres not many, thats why i usually dont listen to or am a fan of the artists that my school mates like (eminem,g-unit,50-cent, young bloodz, 3 6 mafia) i like to be different and listen to 97- rap

Originally posted by mental pimp
but what MTV and BET shows us is complete garbage, and thats why im saying rap will die soon,

rap isnt going anywhere, its expanding.its gone international. japan with dj honda, sweden with looptroop, the uk has life,roots manuva just off the top of my head..and the garbage you see on your tv screen and hear on the radio is picking up more rap fans every day, most of which are white suburban kids with money to spend.

Originally posted by mental pimp
well i use the word wigger to insult the white kids trying to be black, i never knew that black people would be a affected by it, and i live in miami , home of the cuban wiggers, so c'mon, i see it everyday.....i cant help it
is it me or did he miss the ENTIRE point? following your logic this means u use the word "nigger" to insult blacks. do use understand why that's wrong. if not, i give up.

i'm tired and don't want to try breaking down what I thought was a very clear break down to begin with. anyone else care to try and enlighten him?

(good luck)

Originally posted by ELX13
how dense can u really be mental?

let's break this down...

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"wigger" is a combination of 'white' and an extremely offensive, derogatory term for black people.

u said:

thus, based on your own words, black people (or, more specifically the black people that these white people are emulating) are "niggers".

now...take it from a black man...if u don't really feel that way...if you're not really a racist...if u don't "mean anything by it," stop using that word. use something more accurate like wack or wafrican-american. you're not not coming off as "cool" by using it...you're simply advertising your ignorance.

and to reiterate what Ike said in an earlier post...those kids aren't emulating "black people" in general as your statement implies. they're wrapping themselves up in what has become the "black" stereotype.

(on another note, i can't believe that u didn't get a mod warning for using that word. what does that say?...)

back on topic:

rap isn't dead. i'm with all the folks that mentioned groups like the roots, tribe called quest, jurassic five, black eyed peas, public enemy, common et al. this is a very small list of what are known as "conscious hip-hop artist's". they're not rapping about hoes, blunts and bragging about how much ice they have on their wrists. on the contrary, they're trying to enlighten people with their music. that's the type of rap i like and the type that i think the people that say it's all about bitches and cars, etc. are missing.

Very well said. I must say I am very thankful that rap music came to be. I can remember being 11 years old and my step brother came to visit me from Oakland and brought a tape from a Local artist called Too Short and a new release from someone called NWA and the Posse. At fist I was shocked by the lyrics but, that shock quickly wore off and I was amazed at the power of the music, it was just something that I needed to hear more of, not the fluff they were playing on the radio from time to time. I had a bunch of money saved up and would scour record stores for any rap album I could find, and you really did have to search back then. There was no such thing as a rap section.

I ended up with stuff from Ice-T, Eric B. and Rakim (Wow!), BDP (Wow again!), Slick Rick, EPMD, and two of the all time greats came out shortly after I got into rap, Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions and N.W.A's Straight Outta Compton. Now I was just a dumb white kid from the burbs, but I could feel the power and intensity in this music and I didn't care if I couldn't relate directly, it was like I was being introduced to a whole new world. I felt like I was listening to something that was going to be huge some day, and I felt I could relate with those kids that first listened to rock and roll and went nuts for it.

As time went on I kept listening to every piece of rap music I could get my hands on. Some good, some bad, but I know for sure no piece of music will ever effect me like rap did back then. There were never any ill effects, I didn't want to go out and get a gat, smoke some blunts, and drink a forty, I just wanted to listen to good music. Just because I'm white and grew up in the burbs doesn't mean I shouldn't listen to rap music, and don't understand it. It's like saying if you never did Heroine you shouldn't be able to listen to The Doors, or the White Album.

I thank my mother for allowing me to listen to what was considered vulgar music by many, but she knew I was a smart kid and didn't support my listening to it, but never tried to keep me from listening to it. I think when you make something forbidden it makes it all that more appealing to kids and then you've got a real mess on your hands.

Rap's best times may have been the late 80s through the mid 90s but there's still some great albums being put out, and I think it may even be on an upswing. But for some 15 year old kid to be saying rap isn't what it used to be just cracks me up. You were freaking 6 years old when Wu-Tang made their best album, it's all been downhill from there save for some of the solo stuff. I think you're a bit silly to be calling for the death of a genre that has been around longer than you've been alive, and proclaiming how it sucks now compared to how it used to be.

Ike

To use "that name"
in any way, shape or form,
straight-up, or all twisted and morphed,
to anyone or anything in any way
is a direct slap in the face to all black persons.

Wigger is a thinly veiled morph of "that name". If a black person hears you say it or reads your writing it, the black person hears or reads not wigger, really. The black person hears or reads "that name".

I've learned not to use "that name" around black people in 1972. Even black people who you go out drinking with will get real serious real quick if you start even using it in a joking way. I made an enemy out of a black friend in less than 10 seconds one Friday night back then, and I haven't used it since.

Drop "wigger" from your vocabulary if you don't want to find out the hard way. You'll be glad you did.

edit: Oh, and by the way, I read "that name" too, not "wigger". I read "white nigger", just as plain as day, now that I know what it means. I'm not black, I'm white, but my wife is black. I go to a church which is all black except for me (I'm a trustee) and a deacon's wife. My wife's family is closer to me than my own. I may not cringe too badly when I see it written here. I may feel different in a different setting, I don't know yet. But let me tell you, it reeks pretty badly. I'm suprised that a champion of one race shows a lack of decency to repect another.

Originally posted by ELX13
is it me or did he miss the ENTIRE point? following your logic this means u use the word "nigger" to insult blacks. do use understand why that's wrong. if not, i give up.

i'm tired and don't want to try breaking down what I thought was a very clear break down to begin with. anyone else care to try and enlighten him?

(good luck)

i dont insult blacks, i never have to, and hopefully never will, nigger or nigga is a word that only black people can use among themselves, im not gonna stop using this word (wigger) , if black people feel insulted by it then too bad, they dont run me and i can say watever i want, i dont know how u cant find anything wrong with these rich white kids mocking black people ( the ones that wear a lot of jewelry,oversized clothes,pack guns, and so on.

wigger should not be considered as a racial insult

i dont use it to come off as cool, i use it to insult, rich white kids that mock black people

well to touch on that subject....instead of my distaste for RAP music...as far as the obscenity goes....I grew up being called a "nigger lover"....because my parents had to move to the armpit of civilization in AL where "white" people choose to even disrespect themselves....ALL of my friends except a slim few are BLACK....My best friend in the entire world is BLACK, my ex-girlfriend is BLACK/INDIAN....I am WHITE!...REALLY WHITE, (except in the summer)...I come from German and Italian decent and upon moving to AL, after my father retired from the Navy, I was never exposed to such hatred and disrespect for people...

Mental, you're of Arab decent right? as I recall from your Avatar....to use that term "wigger" is the same exact thing as if some one here called you a "rag head"...or just the same called me a "Whop" or "Nazi"......

Drop the term......this is part of what STEMS from RAP music...sorry had to add that in there....everyone becomes so accustomed to the disrespectful nature of MOST of the genre, that they become dead to the words that demean the very groups of people that HELP MAKE THIS COUNTRY A GREAT PLACE TO LIVE!

I have listened to the Roots, I have the majority of their albums and seen them live, they have a very interesting mixture of Jazz and Hip hop which I like ....I don't consider that RAP...A Tribe Called Quest was NOT RAP....niether were people such as Rob Base and DJ Easy Rock, BDP, Schoolly D, Ultramagnetic MC's, Fat Boys, early Sir Mix Alot (who didn't like SWASS!?...), and De La Soul......that was back when it was GREAT...like i said in a previous post...all about fun...not about material things and disrespect....

I can just hear WAR in the background...."why can't we be friends,...why can't we be friends"...

people call me terrorist, do i get mad? no, and i dont care, cause i know that im not one, if a black person gets insulted by the word " wigger" then they have a serious problem

Originally posted by mental pimp
people call me terrorist, do i get mad? no, and i dont care, cause i know that im not one, if a black person gets insulted by the word " wigger" then they have a serious problem

How about sand nigger, I see no difference between that and wigger. Both are terms used by the ignorant, so just keep using the word wigger...

well...it sounds like mental is set in his ways guys and gals. i guess we'll just leave him alone.

i commend all of u who tried to "write some sense into him." ;)

back to topic (again ;))

xero...i guess we should have made the distinction between hip-hop and rap at the BEGINNING of this long argument. :D i completely agree with u. i'm more of a hip-hop fan than a rap fan. i like hip-hop for the lyrics, message and beats (usually in that order). and i like rap for the beats, and sometimes the lyrical style (not the lyrics themselves) of the artist.

The whole what is hip hop and what is rap thing has always been silly to me... It's all rap as far as I'm concerned, just different forms of it.

Rap is something you do
Hip-hop is something you live

-KRS ONE

search: HHQ II (from athletic mic league cd)



how did this turn into a discussion about the word wigger anyway?

because of one of our members that always likes to start something.....

It's not hard to understand here, I don't think. Don't use words that can be construed as offensive, whether or not YOU find them offensive makes no difference. So, let's all try to get along, okay?


And just because I want to throw my 2cents in, Rap is no different from any other type of music. If you like it, great, if not, then that's fine too. It's just another form of expression. I don't particularly care for it, but then, I don't have to. And no one else has to like what I like either.

for all those confused, which there are many in this thread, rap is a genre of music, hip hop is a culture...

hip hop is a way of dressing, an attitude, almost its own language (ebonics)...it encompasses the urban way of life...and is unfortunately getting so commercialized and bastardized that yes, it's really starting to suck

first off, i'm not that hard into rap music, especially "gangsta rap" which i find far too degrading to women, homosexuals, the "white man" and far too involved in drugs, bustin' caps on people especially policemen, and disrespecting each other...i find the majority of rap music to be preaching about hate and hating things not "black" or not ghetto enough...rap artists flaunt the fact that they come from the ghetto and that they got shot 9 times...who wants a role model like that?

well it's natural considering most rap artists don't become famous unless they're good at disrespecting other things...namely each other in what is called an MC Battle...the farther you can "dis" or disrespect your opponent the more props you get...getting shot a few times is also always good on the resume because getting shot adds to the effect of you coming straight from the hood, you got me, g?

the thing about rap music, though, are the infectious beats that some of the songs have and the ingenious lyrics that some of the more mature minded rappers create...being able to flow is a gift, IMO...artists like Tupac had a natural talent for words and stringing them together under a nice melodic beat...

like i said earlier, Hip Hop and everything it stands for is turning into garbage the moment it became mainstream...even Microsoft commercials are now to the tune of rap...if you want to still hear good stuff, you're gonna have to listen to the oldies...

tupac
biggie
wutang
pharcyde
a tribe called quest
the roots
mc hammer




just kidding on that last one =P

Originally posted by BRx8
for all those confused, which there are many in this thread, rap is a genre of music, hip hop is a culture...

hip hop is a way of dressing, an attitude, almost its own language (ebonics)...it encompasses the urban way of life...and is unfortunately getting so commercialized and bastardized that yes, it's really starting to suck

Though it has evolved into that, it began as a musical style.
The original perpertrators of that style of music advanced the earliest cultural cues that led to the modern hip-hop cultural styling.
Though Sugar Hill Gang is usually pointed to as the genesis of Hip-Hop, its roots are more than 60 years old (Cab Calloway is a good example) and can really be identified as a direct stylistic difference by the end of the 60's - long before people started wearing their jeans around their ankles and getting gold caps over perfectly healthy tooth enamel.:p

As maniac has stated....Hip Hop culture is a direct result from the now "ancient" genre that it once was...

It is evolved just like ALTERNATIVE has...when the alternative music genre arrived on scene, The Smiths, Bauhaus, etc...that was an outstanding movement in music...now ALTERNATIVE has progressed to MAINSTREAM and has become part of a culture than a musical genre...and now alternative music is considered much the same as RAP is now.....the evolution of a genre into a culture and it's musical roots taken into a new path...that IMO SUX...

Originally posted by XeRo
As maniac has stated....Hip Hop culture is a direct result from the now "ancient" genre that it once was...

It is evolved just like ALTERNATIVE has...when the alternative music genre arrived on scene, The Smiths, Bauhaus, etc...that was an outstanding movement in music...now ALTERNATIVE has progressed to MAINSTREAM and has become part of a culture than a musical genre...and now alternative music is considered much the same as RAP is now.....the evolution of a genre into a culture and it's musical roots taken into a new path...that IMO SUX...

Doesn't make it "alternative" anymore, does it.

I have to admit I was a little disturbed to see Morrissey become "mainstream" for a while. That ruined his value to me, personally.
Nothing exemplifies that better than the Cure, however.

Rap will never be dead--people said the same thing about "vulgar" Elvis and Rock and Roll. Hip Hop is popular culture now--look at Escalade sales--they aren't selling because they are wonderful affordable family vehicles.

I hate rappers, not rap. Rap is alright but most of these rappers who think they are hardcore and shit and glorify gang banging are so tired now. It's hard to take someone seriously as a 'gangsta' when they live in a huge house and have 5 cars. Most of them are just 'wangsta's'

Plus, I am still waiting to hear a fairly new song that doesnt take its beat or some of it lyrics from some other song.

Modern rap music is horrible. I haven't heard anything positive since the days of 2Pac (don't quote me unless you have at least four of his albums). It's basically like watching Malibu's Most Wanted over and over again. There is much better music to listen to.

2Pac and Biggie............that's where it's at!!!

kayne west is killing it right now

kayne west is killing it right now

i'm actually a fan of kayne west. His music is different from rappers flaunting their lavish lifestyle which kinda gets lame after a while. That whole bling bling thing ended with cash money records.

I am so glad the whole down south cash money, no limit thing went away

but I admit I love "slow motion" from juve

holy freakin thread resurrect...

it still sux...minus the few good ones...Outkast, Beastie Boys, still old school is the way to go..now those were some phat beats..

Kanye West isn't that great, but his beats are pretty good.

I hate Kanye West music--his beats are ok but his music actually sends out horrible messages. He is touting how he dropped out of school and got rich. In theory the message is that you can make it and school isn't for everyone; but his album convey's it like look at you in school only making x dollars and look at me rich. He makes my ass ache. I read an interview he did in Vibe and his pretentious attitude almost made me vomit. As far as Hip-Hop goes--the south is still dominant, and the bling is still here its just commercialized now. As far as lyricist go my favorites would be UGK, Jay Z, and Ludacris. As far as messages go--Jadakiss really is the only one talkin about something of substance, its just that his beats aren't the greatest.

i have to add that rap/hip-hop are not the same. Although hip-hop might be a subdivision of rap, they are not the same.

90% of rap = drugs, money, cars, n bitches.

Hip-hop, AKA Krs-ONe, Atmosphere, The Grouch, Brother Ali, Jedi Mind Tricks.

Thats what hip hop is, message me at anytime and i will be more than happy to send you lyrics of some hip hop, then you can tell me what the difference is.

My motto is, if it plays on the radio, it probably sucks. And i didnt learn that from my 'friends' i learned it by trial and error.

So no, Rap is not dying out, its just that you all are listening to the wrong type.

who says its the wrong type if it's on the radio

not everyone likes underground stuff

kayne west has more to say then drop out of school ---listen to his album

It's probably one of the best albums to come out in years. I long for the days where the Beastie Boys, KRS-ONE, Gangstarr, and the like ruled the day. :(

the radio sux...a conformists jukebox..everyone that wants to be force fed what someone wants them to hear...same crap over and over...that's why the best bands always sell out their shows and have a good strong following...they aren't products of the Music Industry were anyone can yell some BS out and call it life experience then have it put on a record...give me 5 minutes on PropellerHead Reason and i'll give you some phat beats that my dumbass will make some stupid rap up about how I am better than you cause i killed all the lesser drug dealers in my neighbor'hood' and drink 40's all the time while pouring it on women, then i smack them around and tell 'em suck it "bitch" that's all your good for is just a sex act...

yeh then i'll get signed and corrupt more young minds...please...Rap = Crap..."not everyone likes underground stuff"... because most of it is heart and soul REAL music...not this BS you like booming all over town making others HAVE to listen to the crap...

If radio sucked, the how would artists get their music across?

Easy.
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005R8EL.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Word of Mouf.

it started to suck when it became mainstream and became the background music to Coke and McDonald's commercials...keep it real, keep it underground

They need new material like we need aftermarket parts

it started to suck when it became mainstream and became the background music to Coke and McDonald's commercials...keep it real, keep it underground

I'm lovin' it.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26154&stc=1

If radio sucked, the how would artists get their music across?

radio has sucked for an awfully long time, since about the time music labels were taken over by business people and music was made into "the music industry". see that last word?? industry?? yeah. a machine which coldly cranks out nearly identical peices of product (that's right, PRODUCED music, not performed) designed to "appeal" to the "taste" of the masses.

realize for a second that your average person knows about as much about art as they do about life and the reason for living (as art is an extension of existance in some way).

making a radio pop song:

1. choose a theme: love is the only theme there is (sex, heartbreak, pining, etc all fall into this theme)

2. write a lyric: come up with 3 - 7 words in a row that you will repeat ad nauseum throughout the song (which just happens to be its title and theme) so people will be able to "sing along", remember the artist and buy their record. this is the "hook"

3. come up with some inanely simple music in a standard meter (like, 2/4 ...or 1/4 for extra sappy love songs) so that any moron paid minimum wage with a few hours expereince on a guitar/drum kit/base/keyboard can perform it endlessly. have at least one key change, lame solo,

4. pay radio stations a lot of money to tell the world that this music is great, and to play it.

now YOU TOO can write shitty music that any moron would like if you told them it's the greatest thing ever 'cause it's new.

sorry for the cynicism, it's just the way it is.

now don't get me wrong, i like good pop music, there is an art to the creation of it which so few master. take britany spear's "toxic" (i don't know who wrote and produced it, who are actually the people behind the song... britany is jsut the face... yes, face of the music), or smokey robinson's "my girl", or anything Pharell produced ("beautiful" is my fave, 'cause i love the Snoop Dizzle).

there is a lot of crap. there are a few well crafted peices of music, and legitimately talented people in the industry. on the note that some people dislike Kanye West, i will jump to his aid. he worked his ass off as a producer and performer underground for a long time (no, i'm not an expert and could tell you everything he ever did, but i read that he has), and his first single "through the wire" is a contemporary hip hop masterpeice... it has a wicked sample from a wicked old song, good rhymes, its about his development as a person, etc etc. a very good song, not to mention his "jesus walks" effort, which is about as non-pop as you get (god-songs are about as anti-love as you get).

the thing about pop music is that it changes very slowly. everybody copies each other when a small change becomes successful, or a new face is linked to a "new sound" (from which they can never be separated and lose all their artistic freedom) which is used to propell the further promotion of the same old stuff. it just grinds on and on, which is exactly the reason that indie music is better.

artists who are doing whatever it is they want to do, 'cause they're not in it for the money, and don't care if they never make a chart, or get played on the radio. the production qualities are lower, but it doesn't matter 'cuase the music itself is more involved and developped (more often than not) and they actually perform the music on the recording.

if anyone wants a really different expereince, try the band "do make say think"

Maybe I'm just getting older when it comes to youth-oriented pop music.

or CKY for that matter...very intelligent lyrics and very good instrumentally..they go back to the basics..Drums, Guitars, singing, and WRITING...

Wakeech...great post....