Many of you have seen bits and pieces of the recent repairs done on my car. Time to post the unabridged version. Long post, but many interesting and puzzling aspects to this.

I had 9300 miles on my m/t '8. I was visiting family up in Sunnyvale, 500 miles north of my home in San Diego. I started up the car one time, and it didn't "catch" right away. For like a second or two there was a buzzing or whirring sound, but by the time I could react the engine caught and I thought nothing further about. That was Dec 28th.

Dec 30th I drove home, 500 miles. Parked in the garage. Next morning, New Year's eve, I tried to start the car and all I got was that whirring sound. I recognized it instantly from two days prior. But this time, the engine didn't catch. I though I had flooded it but no idea how. I went through the unflood routine over and over to no avail. So I took my wife's car (to refrains of "I told you so"; she had never supported my purchase of the '8).

By noon I was home, and called Roadside Assist. You can read that sub-story here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17988), but long story short: First it took 2 hours to get the wrong truck (non-flatbed); two more hours and no truck. I cancelled the call, and went out to a non-alcoholic New Year's celebration again in the wife's car. (more "I told you so.")

Jan 1, service dept closed so car sits in garage. Jan 2, 7:15 AM I placed a call, complained mightily to RSA, AAA and the tow service, they show up like 2 hours later (after promising 45-minutes.) By noon, after 2 stops enroute, I finally get to the shop and leave the car. BTW, AAA called back days later to apologize. They are reducing the service area of that tow company which is a pretty good punishment.

So, here's my car Friday afternoon at Hine Mazda; they order the plugs for flooded engines, order the oil pan which I want changed due to incorrect low-oil warning, plus my 10,000 mile free service. I ask them to look into cycling a/c which I erroneously tell them there is a TSB for. They give me a free rental car, the very uninspired Dodge Intrepid which I discuss here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17860).

Monday they call me; awaiting parts. Tuesday they call me; it's not flooded; I've chipped the ring gear on the starter flywheel; parts on order. Weds they call; starter, oil pan & 10K service done; they're ready to investigate a/c. My service rep has email so I tell him about this RX-8 forum which he'd never heard of and sent him this link (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14227) (thanks to Zoom49.)

Thursday, Jan 8 they say the car is ready. I've been without it for 10 days. While on the phone with the service rep (Kenny) he puts the service manager (Steve) on the phone with me. Steve explains that I didn't flood, but that the '8s are at risk for flooding if shut down cold. He goes into some detail about it; I play dumb cuz I want to see if he gets it right. He does. He says the dealership is going to great pains to explain to all RX-8 owners about flooding cuz they've had a few come in. I didn't ask, but I doubt their sales staff is being so diligent with prospective buyers, but that's their problem.

I get the car that evening. With a 3-page invoice I didn't read it thoroughly, but I asked Kenny what kind of oil they used. He swears 10W-30 is the right choice, but soon learns not only is 5W-20 the recommended oil it's what his techs are using in the '8. Read the story here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18204), my 2nd post about 2/3 down the page. Kenny says he learned something new and will use the right grade on all future '8s.

He also told me they were unable to duplicate my complaint on the a/c, which is no surprise as the temps are in the low 50s. But he did read many complaints on this forum and he believes there is a problem; he said he would continue to research via Mazda tech support. During this whole episode, the Mazda regional tech rep visted the dealership; Kenny put him on this forum and started showing him a/c and other problems and the rep was amazed. He'd never seen any of this and never heard of the a/c complaints, but apparently his eyes are now opened. I hope we can all continue to educate our service reps so things that are common knowledge to us someday will be common knowledge to them.

But the greatest surprise was still to come. I had groceries in the trunk and had to get home. Later at home, I read the invoice in detail and came across this statement: "Removed starter and found wing gear spun on flywheel, removed transmission and found damage clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing, replaced all parts and working normally at this time."

WTH, they changed all these parts and neither asked nor told me? I'm more surprised than pissed, but it was free so I guess I can't complain. Read about it here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18281), along with my complaint that shifting seemed considerably harder than before. That has since worked out somewhat, but not 100 percent. I still need to get back to Kenny and figure out why this repair was necessary and why the didn't call me. How weird!

So that's my story, now happily back in the '8. I will probably think of stuff I left out so I will update my saga as I recall things. It was quite an adventure.

thanks for this very informative post ;)

Wow the starter issue is a new one for me to hear about. Glad you have your car back.

Thanks. Hopefully I'll be the only one with this problem.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
she had never supported my purchase of the '8.

* * *
(more "I told you so.")


I knew we were living parallel lives, 8_wannabe, now I'm certain of it. ;) After my recent New Years' dealership/repair experience, my wife and I looked again into buying a Honda or a Prius and putting sportscars behind us... then I finally got my car back. Nahhhh.

Dealerships not knowing what oil to use is scary... it's the price we're paying for being first.

Perhaps now the "wannabe" part of my name becomes evident. I didn't think I would ever get "permission" to buy the car, and I never actually did. But being over 40 is cool... you don't need permission to have another cookie or to buy a car. So I did. She'll get over it. I think. It's been 5 months!

It's got to be aggravating because of sites like this often we know much more about our cars then the service people do. And because the car is so new most of them don't have alot of experience working on them. Well lets hope you won't have to go back there anytime soon.

I hope so. The good new is, I still haven't flooded and I'm not likely to break another flywheel. Knock on wood. :-)

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Perhaps now the "wannabe" part of my name becomes evident. I didn't think I would ever get "permission" to buy the car, and I never actually did. But being over 40 is cool... you don't need permission to have another cookie or to buy a car. So I did. She'll get over it. I think. It's been 5 months!

Sometimes its better to ask for forgiveness then permission. This is exactly what I did too. :)

BTW. Did the mechanic offer any explanation as of how the damage (flywheel, etc.) was done?

I would also be interested in finding out why the flywheel and clutch were damaged. Also I understand about the wife thing too. My wife, even though she approved of the purchase, gives me a hard time whenever anything comes up. While I was driving my car around in the snow she kept asking me, "Why did you get this car again?" What can I say but it doesn't snow year round and it wasn't for the snow that I bought it :) . I love the car snow or not! I don't know if I could handle being without my baby for 10 days.

I'll make sure the service dept. at the dealer is familiar with this forum. Easy on the Intrepid. It's a great driver in the snow........BTW wannabe I'm in Rancho Bernardo and Borrego once or twice a year. I never miss a ride to La Jolla and T. Pines. Great posts and keep the info coming.

Teach the brides how to have fun driving the car.......

Too Bad dude.

I had a day after Christmas Daymare. I took it in for the Oil Pan TSB, and new key programmed. It was taking a little too long. I went to look for the service tech and saw the 8 parked in the que to leave. I thought Cool. But too no avail. I guess somebody was mad they had to be there the day after Christmas and opened up the door on a pole or tool case or something that's not to friendly to car doors. There was a nice ding with the scratch markes where they had tried to rub off what ever hit it.

They owned up to it, but what a pain. Took it in last Wednesday and picked it up Friday. Looks great. But they didn't wash it. Probably because of the paint.

It's supposed to be the Service deparment not the Nervous department.

bill

Originally posted by RX Guy
BTW did the mechanic offer any explanation as of how the damage (flywheel, etc.) was done? Not yet. I called him, but he didn't return my call. I'll try again today. I want their opinion of how/why the ring gear busted.

*bump*

Just looking for an update on the reason the flywheel, etc. was damaged.

3 calls to my tech rep gone unanswered. Time to *bump* it up to the service manager I guess. Thanks for checking.

Ok, called the service manager today. Turns out my service rep has been sick for a week, so he wasn't just ignoring my call.

The service manager knew my car as soon as I introduced myself. It got quite a bit of attention there at Hine. Here's the thing: the ring gear didn't "chip" as I had believed; it came off entirely from the flywheel assembly. Just fell right off. They couldn't believe it. so of course they replaced that and investigated further and found much of my clutch assembly "smoked" (I think burned was his exact words.) He also said in 30 years of auto service he'd never seen anything like it. I was preparing to go on the defensive and say no way did I do that through owner misuse, but recall dear reader from my earlier posts they changed out the clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing and never even consulted me. They said no way could I have driven badly enough to cause that kinda damage. they attributed it to manufacturing error of some kind. I image the parts are now safely nestled in Irvine or Hiroshima in some shrine for further study.

I doubt that I will get any feedback on this from Hine, but I will casually ask during my next service check which should be mid-Feb the rate I'm driving. If I hear anything more I'll add to this thread. Anyone have any idea what coulda been the problem with the flywheel and clutch?

Abusive driver? J/K :D Hopefully somebody else here will be more knowledgable then myself.

Hey wannabe. Bad luck dude. Glad they gave you zero crap, but too bad about the door ding.
No problems my way when it comes to the spousal unit and choice of cars. She has had her '90 Miata for all these years. Time for my toy!

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear that the dealer wasn't just ignoring you.

Hey 8_wannabe, thanks for updating us, and congrats on getting back in the saddle :)

Who's the main guy you deal with at Hine? I've spent a lot of time working with Alan (Service Writer) who seems pretty cool... Cheers,
-jd.

Originally posted by jdl
Hey 8_wannabe, thanks for updating us, and congrats on getting back in the saddle :)

Who's the main guy you deal with at Hine? I've spent a lot of time working with Alan (Service Writer) who seems pretty cool... My guy is Kenny. He's been out sick which is why no one returned my calls for a week. Kenny seems knowledgeable and conscientious. When I demonstrated to him that 5W-20 was the right oil, he ran it to ground, talked to the actual mechanics, then apologized when he saw he had it wrong. As he said, he's been driving a '7 for 15 years and had no idea the oil would change. I will attribute it to an honest mistake which he has rectified. He also called me almost daily while repairs were in progress, even just to tell me parts were on order. Of course, somehow he forgot to mention the whole clutch thing...

Hey, jdl are my initials too. Are you my alter ego? :cool:

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
My guy is Kenny. [...]
Hey, jdl are my initials too. Are you my alter ego? :cool: I like Kenny's attitude, too.

Funny about the initials! but no, I'm just jd after all...

Thanks again for your posts, jdl ;)
-jd.

Yo, jd -- you coming to tonites meet at La Mesa. Check the West forum for details.

--jdl

Another wrinkle on this. I just posted the same note on a gas mileage thread. I have historically gotten 16.5-16.8 mpg regardless of octane, DSC/TCS, or driving like grannie. However, since my extensive repairs I've filled up and calibrated twice. First tank, I drove to LA and back and got like 19.1 mpg, a near-record for me. Second tank was all local driving and got 17.1, which is extraordinary. This is on 87 octane. Nothing I've ever done has ever caused me to waiver from the 16.x mpg until my last two tanks. There could be two or three causes for this.
1. Random deviations, and I will soon return to normal
2. Something in the repairs/new clutch have caused my mileage to improve.
3. I also went over 10,000 miles. Maybe the ECU has changed, though I've never been convinced this mattered in anyone else's car.

I'll keep track and see if the improvement trend continues.

Go back and have them replace the starter if they haven't already. Or at least have them check it off the car.

I had nearly the same thing happen to me several years ago except it happened at a drag strip with a big block. It had stalled after backing up from the burnout and I gave it some gas as I was starting it. The gear on the starter locked on the starter shaft. This caused the pressed on gear on the flywheel to slip and then break off.

To answer you questions about the clutch, pressure plate and bearing, they were probably damaged when the gear first spun on the flywheel. Possibly a small piece lodged between the flywheel and pressure plate throwing it off center. In my case even efter it started, as soon as I put it in gear and released the clutch when I got the green light on the tree, the pressure plate was thrown out of alignment by a piece of the gear that made the clutch and pressure plate bind up on the input shaft of the tranny and broke it completely off and stuck it through the bellhousing.

All because the gear on the starter locked up.

RX4+30Years -- Thanks for the advice. I'm coming up on my 20K check and i will look into this.

For everyone else, I just reread my latest post in this thread where I thought I was getting improved gas mileage. It was all a pipe dream. My mpg soon drifted back to its 16.8 norm where it has rested ever since. I have heard the M reflash improves on this, and I hope to get that at my next checkup; we'll see...

Man I feel ya on the wife thing. Just the 2 recalls, horrific gas mileage and the weak a/c that can't currently be fixed was enough to get the woman on the I told you so kick. She hasn't been able to say it quite yet, but I know she's waiting. If I suffer any major problems early into this car purchase, I'll gladly smile to here " I TOLD YOU SO" and say she was right all along. Buying this car is definitaly a risk, but one worth taking. I'll be a happy camper if I get get 3-4 years out of mine (about 40-50k miles) without anything but basic maintanence. If it proves durable in the next 3+ years, I'll be trading it in for a new rx8. If not, I'll tell the lady she was right, and find another car. :)

Just reread this thread due to another related post that came up. All the aforementioned problems happened at 10K miles, Jan 1 2004. I just got my 20K check on Sept 16, so that's like 1050 miles/month. Not too bad, since I went through the first 10K miles in 5.5 months, or over 1800 miles/month. I think my current trend is more typical; there were some odd reasons I was driving more early on.

Anyway, after these last 10,000 miles no problem with starter, clutch, or anything. Poor car... I'm teaching my 16-yr-old to drive and no, he won't get the '8 but I'd like him to know how to drive stick so he's practicing. A bit rough, but he's catching on. If his grades continue as they are he'll get some beater of his own, not sure stick or auto yet. Had a rough time with his grades last year but we seem to be on an improving trend.

Final comment about wives, etc. To mitigate the "I told you so" factor my wife has no idea about the crappy mileage I get. I just suck it up and don't tell her. Like sh's one to talk... she's driving her Dream Beemer (323i) which I never wanted her to get, damn thing just cracked a cylinder head so we're out big bux. And of course, this is just after the warranty ran out. Gotta give credit to those engineers... they know how to build things to last "just long enough." Bavarian quality is definitely on a downward trend.

Beemer (323i) which I never wanted her to get, damn thing just cracked a cylinder head so we're out big bux. And of course, this is just after the warranty ran out. Gotta give credit to those engineers... they know how to build things to last "just long enough." Bavarian quality is definitely on a downward trend. Check to see if that head had ever been removed before - some of their engines use 'stretchable' bolts, installed properly with an angle gauge. If someone used a regular torque wrench (or <horrors> a 'click' type torque wrench), or re-used stretchable bolts (they're to be tossed when removed and replaced with new ones), then that's the likely cause of the head cracking. You may have some recourse if it was done improperly by a dealer, but it's unlikely a dealer would have been so grossly stupid with the bolts.

I wouldn't say Bavarian quality is going down... If your service guy has been around a while, just needle him by saying "M46 timing case profile gasket!" For the curious: Google will explain.

(and just to be an annoying nit-picker: beemer=motorcycle, bimmer=car)

O and say no way did I do that through owner misuse, but recall dear reader from my earlier posts they changed out the clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing and never even consulted me. They said no way could I have driven badly enough to cause that kinda damage. they attributed it to manufacturing error of some kind. I image the parts are now safely nestled in Irvine or Hiroshima in some shrine for further study.

. Anyone have any idea what coulda been the problem with the flywheel and clutch?


shit man you might want to delete all those posts about entering your car in that Nopi burnout contest

shit man you might want to delete all those posts about entering your car in that Nopi burnout contestHummm. I get too much wheelhop to really do a burnout. It sounds like this may not be the norm. Could there be something amis? Stock Potenza tires.

shit man you might want to delete all those posts about entering your car in that Nopi burnout contesthaha, very funny. I had to do a search on NOPI just to find out what the heck you were talkin' about. Found some pix of some fine girls in one a dem posts.