Auto Salon..

Yes already out.... for those that dont believe.....

Turbo kits were 4 different companies.

POWER, TRUST, RE-AMEMIYA, and PHOENIX POWER!

Well anyway....

Here is powers... Im a little slow, computer problems, but this is a sample for for too come.

Don't be shy.... Numbers please.

Performance, price, availability.

My salesman quit just this year, so I didnt just run up and ask. I will get the info on them all of course..

awaiting the info in excitement of course...

that looks like ours, except smaller.

how do the intercoolers mount? any shots? How many PSI?

Anyone have a supercharger kit? I feel like superchaging this car is the way to go, but open to the idea of a turbo.

Jason;

Thanks for update. I noticed the Power Enterprises kit is using a Mitsubishi turbo? I thought Power was an IHI company. Can you please update us on any new development on the "kits."

AJ

INFO!!! WE NEED INFO!!! :D

Too cool, How about some stuff on the kits from the other 3 manufacturers?

Due to the time difference I just woke up it was a long day yesterday. I have the pics and info coming, but I still need to shrink them and such.

These other 3 kits are a surprise... They gave no forth info before the show, so I guess it was a secret.

Info is coming.

Too cool, can't wait to see it. :D

KNIGHTSPORT RX8

Here are their stats, well some of them, still working with pics and info.

285ps @ 7800rpms
They are running their own computer rom.

Thats it for them for right now. More coming as it comes..

is that to the wheels? and what do you mean by their own rom? did they replace the ecu or added a piggyback fuel controller?

If there were some re-arranging of the location of the battery, ecu, etc... there will be some major room for a HUGe Turbo are Supercharger.... Just a comment!

The first kit, by POWER, shows just this kind of rearrangement. The one from KNIGHT SPORT looks to have been smushed into the existing space, and like it uses the factory acordian intake tube and MAF.

Can't wait to see some dyno charts, pricing, etc...

And pardon my memory, but could someone remind me what "PS" is as related to HP? :) Thanks...

Originally posted by Omicron
And pardon my memory, but could someone remind me what "PS" is as related to HP? :) Thanks...

250ps = 247hp do the math :p

1hp = 1.01ps. They are close enough for it to be a wash.

285ps = 281hp

Thanks. Now I know why I couldn't remember it... it was too simple! :D

I always go 1-1 hehe easier to remmeber and not so big of a DIF..

Ok the knightsports one is the TRUST kit.

According to TRUST and RE-Amemiya (buddy mechanic that did the tunning) he said you can boost much out of it or it blows. Right now they are looking into other parts maybe to get the best HP out of your kit.

The POWER one does look nice. I just have a had a little problem in my head about the distance between the Turbo exhaust and turbo intake. I mean they are suppose to be on the same wavelength sort of speak.

Either way---Its turbos. Of course time will tell..........

Question.... Was the 285ps made on a otherwise stock car... or did it already have exhaust and intake upgrades and such?

Just a wonderin...

Cuz if it made those numbers on a stock engine... we should be able to get it over 300 with other mods.

Thanks

Brit

Anything to back it?

As for the Knightsports set-up. They have an exhaust, the computer rom and turbo kit that I can see.

They do have that tiny intercooler too.

any idea when or how much money?

http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~knight78/toppage_picture/AS200401.JPG
The computer is out. I think they are still holding back on the turbo. I have to order some more parts from them today or tomorrow so I will ask.

Im a dork. I read the JP wrong at the AUTO SALON. They had it all cramped in there, so I assumed turbo kit.

Its a Supercharger..... DAMN sorry about that guys..... Here is a pic.

http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~knight78/toppage_picture/supercharger.jpg

Jt-Imports, what is that red handle poking out of the front bumper in the pic you just posted?

Towhook

Originally posted by Jt-Imports
Towhook

To help you unflood your car! ;)

Originally posted by rotarygod
To help you unflood your car! ;)

Hook it to a slingshot at the other end of the street.:p

Originally posted by Jt-Imports
Its a Supercharger..... DAMN sorry about that guys..... Here is a pic.

That sounds awful interesting. As an unwashed in these things:

1) is a supercharger 'better' than a turbo, under what conditions, and why? Is it more compact, uses less power, etc?

2) this is the 1st for the 8 I've heard of, any idea why a they choose this?

3) is it to be avail soon, or just a prototype?

4) any prices, dates?

Thanks! Sorry if I ask too many ??, but it sounds so good!

Is the body kit onthe white one from Knight Sports? If so, who is carrying it in the US?

Yes its from Knightsports...

Your in Tokyo and you want to buy it from the states? Im sure I can think of a few people/companies that sell it in the US though.

Originally posted by Jt-Imports
Yes its from Knightsports...

Your in Tokyo and you want to buy it from the states? Im sure I can think of a few people/companies that sell it in the US though.

NO no... why would I waste money on an 8 in Tokyo when I could only make use of it on weekends? And that's only during the winter... during spring through fall I'd be on my motorcycle.

No, I'm seriously looking into moving back to the US... likely the Seattle-area and am hoping to buy an 8 in 6-10 months time. Know of any good jobs.. IT-related or car/bike- related for a fluent bilingual? ;) :D

One thing to consider about the front fascia is, is it fiberglass? I am pretty opposed to fiberglass...

*OFF SUBJECT*

IT--you can get some pretty good jobs in Tokyo hehe

I work up in Tokyo actually full time at an import/export corporation.

*ON SUBJECT*
The bumper IS FRP. I dont base FRP like Fiberglass, I mean its almost the same, but it doesnt break into little pieces quite as easy..

Originally posted by Jt-Imports
*OFF SUBJECT*

IT--you can get some pretty good jobs in Tokyo hehe

I work up in Tokyo actually full time at an import/export corporation.

*ON SUBJECT*
The bumper IS FRP. I dont base FRP like Fiberglass, I mean its almost the same, but it doesnt break into little pieces quite as easy..

<OFF SUBJECT>
I know... been doing it for 5 years here in Tokyo. But there are elements I hate... last job I worked from 10am to 11pm/12am in the office regularly and then went home to do teleconferences and check mail again... only to repeat the cycle again the next day. There are other things besides overtime as well... Japanese salaryman mentality... the list can get long. I am also feeling trapped in an engineering role, and I am a bit burned out...I want to move over to a more business-related role... i.e. Project Manager, Business Development, Marketing OR maybe just a different field entirely... get a BSME.

Here's a big one...would you want to invest money in a house in Japan knowing that houses and mansions only depreciate? Rent is expensive and a waste of money... A rock and a hard place...

I am a passionate hater of public transportation/ mass transit. I want to drive a car or [motor] bike to work. Did the bike in Tokyo... too dangerous to continue.

Raising children in Tokyo... NG.
</OFF SUBJECT>

How well does FRP perform? I see so many Yanki- (Yankee) cars with cracked, broken and taped up bodykits on them... it seems like it is still easily to break than poly-urethane or factory level plastic.

Everyone has pulled into the mall or some parking space a little too much and nudged a pole or another car. I'd hate to do that, or worse... some else do that to my car and have the $1,000 bodykit picece crack or break.

For the above reason and the fact that is looks badass, I've had an eye on the MS kit, but the cost is nuts. I love the styling of the Autoexe kit, but it's FRP and cost isn't THAT much less than the MS kit. The stock front-end and the appearance package is growing on me... didn't hate it, just thought it needed tweaking. But that Knight Sports front with the rest of the appearance kit looks pretty good...

Again I ask though... WTF were the Mazda engineers thinking with that damn half length side skirt?!!!

a good place to look for JDM stuff for your RX-8 is www.intensepower.com

I am excited but I have to ask a few questions. I didn't see the intercooler on the Powers turbo set-up. Does it exist? To repeat how much are these systems going to cost? What are we looking at hp wise with each of the systems? And finally what is the psi with each of the different set-ups? I had a '91 toyota MR2 with a Turbonetics stage II upgrade where we were pushing 24 psi but we had to do some pretty serious engine mods to get there.

I would like to hear that we can push 10-12 psi without steel gaskets and the like. If so are we going to see 150+ hp gains? I am planning on purchasing Canzoomers ECU upgrade and if I put in a turbo I will get a MazdaSpeed exhaust. So with these upgrades I should be able to handle the Air/Fuel mixtures and get the backflow pressure relieved. Should I need anything particular as well such as an ignition upgrade?

intesepower.com is very expensive

Really? Their bodykits seem to overal be cheaper. I compared the "sale" price to that of RotaryExtreme and Intensepower was cheaper.

NOTE: This was the Autoexe kit, not the MS kit that I compared...

Keep comparing things get cheaper hehe

I saw the latest Option Mag (Jan 04) the power increase of the Trust tubro from 215 ps to 265 ps. Wow.. it is the REAL dyno you know.

The Blitz Compressor dyno from 178.9 ps to 215.2 ps NOT bad... different setting of course. I think I like superchanging compressor better. You think?

Originally posted by Spin9k
That sounds awful interesting. As an unwashed in these things:

1) is a supercharger 'better' than a turbo, under what conditions, and why? Is it more compact, uses less power, etc?

2) this is the 1st for the 8 I've heard of, any idea why a they choose this?

3) is it to be avail soon, or just a prototype?

4) any prices, dates?

Thanks! Sorry if I ask too many ??, but it sounds so good!

I can try and answer your first question. If I'm not mistaken a supercharger uses a belt driven pully system to drive a compressor where as a turbo uses exhaust gasses to spin a compressor . I think the supercharger comes on when you mash the gas which can give you power through out the rev range, and the turbo only comes in when you build up boost pressure when you hit certain rpms.

Well if that is the case then, why would you not just choose the supercharger since you have to wait for the turbo to kick in? A turbo uses exhaust gasses which a car just natural expels where as the supercharger will steal a little bit of power from the engine to drive the belt and pullies.

Now as to which one is better, I'm not going to say either as I'm sure it would start some type of massive debate. I think which ever you choose would be a matter of personal preference. I would suggest you do some research and look at the pros and cons and then make your own informed decision.

Ahh, welcome to the world of oversimplification.

As a user of both supercharging and turbocharging, (my MX-3 had an SC first than I switched to TC, I have a turbo on the Miata and an SC was on the Civic) I can tell you that each has significant plusses and minuses.
None of which are as simple as the above explanation.

The main difference is in packaging and liability - a manufacturer will pick the solution that is most profitable, which means easy to package and least likely to blow up.
Which is better for the owner depends on the ultimate goals for the vehicle - something that the average "I wanna turbo my car" driver has a hard time putting their finger on.

Bottom line from my perspective -

Supercharging is more fun to knock around.
Turbocharging is for winning races.

I'd select a GOOD supercharging system over a bad turbo system for a street-driven car anyday.
However, I'd build a turbo system for my car way before I'd go through the hassle of an SC again.
A conundrum and enigma, no doubt.

ok, I'm a little cunfused, so is there a Turbocharger kit out for the RX-8

No not a kit out yet but there are many in the works and hopefully will be out soon.

And for dangermouse... you can make a turbo that spools up quickly to give you more torque. It just depends on how you build it. At least that's what I was told by a smart guy on this forum.

Brit

More often than not a quick spooling turbo is a small turbo that can't flow well in the high end so you have quick spooling system with good low end torque and power but it becomes a restriction in the high rpm range. Then you have the high end monster turbos that give you the most top-end power but have more lag and less low-end. It all depends on what you're looking for

hey there is some guy saying he saw a RX-8 with a turbo and intercooler in the Modified MAG on they RX7 club forum. I thought those weren't out yet, anyway here's the link

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=260338

Horse---Humm thats someting totally different. It was a conversion done by ACOSTARACING. Thats not a Renesis engine.

If you have a large turbo and want to spool faster you can get a nitrous injection system that spools the turbo. This helps with low and med range hp and torque. I considered this system when I was boosting my MR2 to 24psi.

i'd like to hear more about trust's turbo kit

bump

Originally posted by PetersonPeleRx8
No not a kit out yet but there are many in the works and hopefully will be out soon.

And for dangermouse... you can make a turbo that spools up quickly to give you more torque. It just depends on how you build it. At least that's what I was told by a smart guy on this forum.

Brit

Yes, you are correct you can have a turbo spool quickly, but you still have to wait to build up boost. I'm just saying it won't be instantaneous when you mash the gas like a supercharger.

Supercharged cars have lag too. In fact all cars have lag. "turbo lag" should more appropriately be called "fuel lag". It is the delay time that exists between when you press the gas down and the engine actually starts to rev. The slower and easier you drive the less you notice it. Just sit still sometime and press and release the gas pedal really quick. Different cars respond a little differently but I can actually get my foot back off the gas before the engine starts to rev (in both of my cars). It isn't something I notice driving though. When a turbo starts to spool, it does it pretty quickly. A car with a turbo like a nonturbo car may have lag, but at least they get to enjoy a surge of power when the turbo really gets going. A centrifugal supercharger has the same lag as the engine does stock but doesn't build up boost as fast as a good turbo system (or a bad one for that matter). Power is added at an exponential rate to rpm and with a peak boost level of say 8 psi at max rpm vs a turbo at 8 psi, the supercharged car is much more lethargic. The other thing popular today is the positive displacement supercharger such as the roots or twin screw. These typically have a bypass valve that opens under light load for economy reasons. When you step on the gas there still isn't any boost for a while. The bypass valve has to sense the difference in intake manifold pressure. The throttle has to have been pushed down and air already flowing down the runners for this to occur and that takes time. Then the valve has to close and the air boosted from the supercharger has to make it's way down the intake manifold to the engine. A turbo system also has to have air flow a long distance before it gets to the engine so each system is relatively comparable in terms of "lag". A positive displacement supercharger adds another complication in that typically the throttlebody is placed in front of the supercharger. This isn't disastrous but the farther the throttlebody is from the engine, the greater the lag time and slower the initial response. My turbo RX-7 which has a big streetport and big single IHI turbo puts out about 425 hp and has LESS lag time then my friends factory supercharged Pontiac Grand Prix. When done properly, "turbo lag" is nothing more than a myth. If you were to use an overly large turbo that is sized way too large for the engine then you would get a bad lag since boost would never rise. If a small turbo spools quickly, how do we have to wait for it to build up boost? If you mean to reach max boost then maybe but remember that max boost on some superchargers is also max rpm. a small turbo responds so fast that the rise is damn near instantaneous. Cars that have the least amount of lag time will either be carburated since fuel and air are mixed at the same time relatively close to the engine, or a fuel injected car that has the throttleplates close to the engine such as a BMW M3. There is almost nothing instantaneous about a supercharger unless you have a blown top fuel funny car. I see a benefit to each setup but "lag" is a nonissue on a turbo car. If it is an issue, the system wasn't designed properly or you just don't need the benefits of any type of forced induction.

I got a headache reading that. More paragraphs would be cool. But eitherway I disagree. I always thought my FD didn't have any lag. Once I drove the rx-8 I realized that my FD has alot of lag. Infact, under 2500 RPM my rx8 has more torque. How sad is that.

Yeah I should have seperated that a little better. You sure your FD was running right? The RX-8 will have more torque than the FD when the FD isn't under boost. My friend Trixie's FD is using the stock turbos in sequential mode and that thing reponds very fast. It also has a PowerFC which made it much smoother than stock. Like I said my big streetport single turbo 1st gen has less lag than my friends supercharged Grand Prix. This still doesn't change the fact that every engine has "lag".

Originally posted by rotarygod
Yeah I should have seperated that a little better. You sure your FD was running right?



I still have my FD, yes its running right. IT has a new engine ported with 3mm seals built by rx7fasion.com (ricks rotary). Im in the area of 330-340 rwhp. the first turbo is spooled by a bout 2600 RPM or so.




The RX-8 will have more torque than the FD when the FD isn't under boost. My friend Trixie's FD is using the stock turbos in sequential mode and that thing reponds very fast. It also has a PowerFC which made it much smoother than stock. Like I said my big streetport single turbo 1st gen has less lag than my friends supercharged Grand Prix. This still doesn't change the fact that every engine has "lag".

I have the power fc, water injection, fuel pump, injectors, intercooler, etc. actually I have everything save a single turbo.
I know the FD has less lag that most turbo cars, but im just saying its not the same as n/a.

Reason I asked was because there are so many people who own FD's that aren't working properly. Sounds like you've got a nice one. Actually it sounds like you got 2 nice cars. :)

I never said there wasn't any difference in lag times. You yourself admitted you thought the response was very fast on that car but that it is just faster on the RX-8. That's probably true but also consider that the RX-8 has a higher compression ratio and an induction system that gives higher intake velocity to the engine at almost all rpms. This will help out with response incredibly. Add a turbo to this and it will probably still be very nice.

My comments are aimed at the people who associate a turbo with severe lag and a loss of driveability especially in regards to a supercharger. This just isn't true if designed properly for street use. A big drag car that has a very peaky powerband and huge turbo would be a handful but remember that they leave the line at a high rpm and utilize some other form of help to get them off the line under high boost. They don't need throttle response. They need all or nothing.

Looking back I'm not quite sure what I typed that you disagree with. I never said lag may not be different. I just said that it isn't a big problem that everyone thinks it is and then stated how other forms may be just as bad.

I made several little paragraphs. Happy? :)

OK as for the update.

Supercharger looks due in APRIL or MAY
Turbo kit they are hoping on March or April.

This is all I have right now, this is busy season...

So much for those dates....

Any updates?

i saw in turbo magazine an add for blitz. it had a pic of an rx-8 and said rx-8 compressor coming soon...but who knows when that could be.

i saw in turbo magazine an add for blitz. it had a pic of an rx-8 and said rx-8 compressor coming soon...but who knows when that could be.

Try search? :p

Look at the BLitz supercharger threads... and yes it's a s/c NOT a t/c.

I wonder how Phoenix's Power is doing with their turbocharged RX-8? I remember it using a T67, but they didn't have any final specs. :confused:

Supercharged cars have lag too. In fact all cars have lag.
Oh yea what about .6 second cars:D .