Hello,

I got a 09 RX-8 R3 a few weeks ago and I'd like to prep it for track days. I did a search and the main recommendations were brake pads and fluid. Is there anything else I need? Upgraded diff/tranny fluids? Cooling upgrades? It often gets to the high 90s here during the warmer months.

I got a set of 18x9.5 +45 RPF1s from Brian Goodwin which I'll mount with 245/40/18 tires. An alignment is also planned.

My background: I've been doing track events and a little bit of autocross for the last 8-10 years. Mostly in an S2000 and track-only '95 Miata.

I'm hoping to have the car broken-in in a month or so and I'll hit the track in mid November.

Thanks.

A $1,000,000 life insurance policy

Hello,

I got a 09 RX-8 R3 a few weeks ago and I'd like to prep it for track days. I did a search and the main recommendations were brake pads and fluid. Is there anything else I need? Upgraded diff/tranny fluids? Cooling upgrades? It often gets to the high 90s here during the warmer months.

I got a set of 18x9.5 +45 RPF1s from Brian Goodwin which I'll mount with 245/40/18 tires. An alignment is also planned.

My background: I've been doing track events and a little bit of autocross for the last 8-10 years. Mostly in an S2000 and track-only '95 Miata.

I'm hoping to have the car broken-in in a month or so and I'll hit the track in mid November.

Thanks.

Bring Oil! Top it off before and after the event. Also, 255 or 265 is probably a better choice for 18x9.5's.

^Agreed, At least put some 265's on there. 245 is a bit too much of a stretch and your car will have alot of oversteer due to the much stiffer sidewalls.

245's are kind of small for a 9.5" wide wheel... i would try for 265 or 275 if it will fit.

bring extra motor oil, and I premix 2 stroke oil into the gas tank.
I had an alignment done on my car a few weeks back and it made the car far less twitchy powering out of corners, definitely worthwhile .

It's turnkey for an HPDE. Plug the towhooks from the trunk in your bumpers and go. Cooling mods will be helpful but as long as you're smart with the car and don't go extended time near red line and let the cars fans stay on after you park (with the hood up and the engine cover off) it'll survive. You should probably consider an oil change to something other than 5x20.

I'm sure there are a hundred or so regular HPDE RX8 drivers in CA. Best bet is to try to get in touch with them at a meet or at an HPDE.

And +1 on bringing spare oil and getting bigger tires. If those are track-only wheels you probably would have been better off getting 17" wheels. It'll save you money and weight.

245's are kind of small for a 9.5" wide wheel... i would try for 265 or 275 if it will fit.

bring extra motor oil, and I premix 2 stroke oil into the gas tank.
I had an alignment done on my car a few weeks back and it made the car far less twitchy powering out of corners, definitely worthwhile .

He has a stock 09 so premix is likely overkill.

Premix, Hawk HP+, and 15W-40 oil.

Thanks Everyone!

A couple of questions:

1. I can get some 255s or 265s but how would the car feel with 245s on 18x9.5 wheels?

2. Why use oil other than 5W-20? I want to avoid a fight with the dealer if I ever had a warranty claim and they come back with me using the wrong oil. And what viscosity should I consider?

Thanks Everyone!

A couple of questions:

2. Why use oil other than 5W-20? I want to avoid a fight with the dealer if I ever had a warranty claim and they come back with me using the wrong oil. And what viscosity should I consider?

Oh gawd, not THE question!?! :SHOCKED:

5W20 is the book value for my 2004, I use 5W30 and have seen no ill effects, and this subject has triggered more holy wars than the Middle East can imagine. :eek:

My personal take on it? Track use generates more heat, 5W30 gives a bit more headroom for viscosity breakdown, and what dealer is going to know the difference?

Oh gawd, not THE question!?! :SHOCKED:

5W20 is the book value for my 2004, I use 5W30 and have seen no ill effects, and this subject has triggered more holy wars than the Middle East can imagine. :eek:

My personal take on it? Track use generates more heat, 5W30 gives a bit more headroom for viscosity breakdown, and what dealer is going to know the difference?

The Bold part is the answer, I would in fact recommend thicker than that. Especially since you are in a warm climate.

No, I would still recomend premix at the track.

Don't forget your helmet and brain. Think safety, don't push it.

Take one of the classes that is offered for a few bucks or at least let a driver take you around the track to show you a few tips.

Thanks Everyone!

A couple of questions:

1. I can get some 255s or 265s but how would the car feel with 245s on 18x9.5 wheels?

2. Why use oil other than 5W-20? I want to avoid a fight with the dealer if I ever had a warranty claim and they come back with me using the wrong oil. And what viscosity should I consider?

Use a 40W or 50W for track and street use. If you think the dealer can tell you have been watching too much CSI.

No, I would still recomend premix at the track.

Don't forget your helmet and brain. Think safety, don't push it.

Take one of the classes that is offered for a few bucks or at least let a driver take you around the track to show you a few tips.

Per the OP, he's not exactly new to driving fast (track days and some autox for 8-10 years), but there's something to be said for getting used to the car first.

Was the S2000 an AP1 or an AP2? Over all, the 8 is more forgiving than an AP1, less forgiving and less comfortable at large slip angles than a Miata. Since it's non-competitive, keep the DSC on for the first session or two and maybe hop on a skid pad with it all the way off (hold the button for 10 seconds, single click off will still kick in the DSC when ABS is activated) before shutting it off on the track.

Anijo, I had an '02 S2000 (the first year with the rear glass window). I know many people mentioned its oversteer tendencies but I've always prefered a loose car over one that doesn't want to turn. The miata on the other hand, is easier to drive and control when the rear starts to step out. Sounds like you are saying that the RX8 will slot in the middle of the two cars. Sounds good to me.

Personally I find the RX-8 more forgiving in a slide than a typical Miata. With the longer wheelbase it tends to step out a lot less suddenly.

I use 10w-40 oil and don't premix. I've got 60,000 miles, five years of heavy autocross competition (20+ events per year, most with a co-driver), and almost 3000 track miles on the car as an instructor at several tracks here in Texas. My motor still runs just fine.

Buy a ScanGauge II or some other OBD2 monitor and put it somewhere in the car where you can see it on track. I have a ScanGauge II velcroed to the top of my rearview mirror. Set it up to read water temp and EGT temp. This way you can keep an eye on the water temp on track (the stock gauge is useless) and watch the EGTs to make sure the cat doesn't fail.

Upgrade the fluid in the diff and tranny to something of better quality. I use Redline MT90 in the transmission and Redline 75w90 in the transmission. Others prefer different stuff.

Personally I find the RX-8 more forgiving in a slide than a typical Miata. With the longer wheelbase it tends to step out a lot less suddenly.


Based on your experience I'd defer to your judgement on that one. All I can go by is my friend's '99 Miata which is extremely well setup. It's so incredibly predictable and happy with such large slip angles...

Oh, another thing to be prepared for are the brakes :D: The brakes on the 8 are miles ahead of those on the Miata, can't really comment vs. an S2000...

and hey kster, if you haven't taken your car out to an autox, do so. They're one hell of a B-Stock car (just look at nationals from this year :lol:)

kster: Would be interested in your observations on the sway bars. I think this car would benefit from having stiffer sways but did not get a chance to track mine yet.

I second the sway bar/stiffer suspension comment. The RX-8 comes with a fairly soft suspension setup, I can see a gain in time with a stiffer setup

I'll see how the R3 suspension feels on the track and then decide what to upgrade. Based on my limited street driving (~300 miles), I do like the stiff chassis, crisp turn-in and minimal body roll. And it's fairly comfortable for a daily driver.

But with sticky 255s or 265s on the track, I don't know if the suspension is stiff enough. Or if the dampers will begin to fade after a 25 minute session.

The body roll will magnify on track, you will be screaming for less lean as you are tiptoeing through the course.

Your tires and brakes will fade long before your shocks

First time track have a lot of traffic at the turns, so no need to change suspension, but because of the traffic, you need more brake.
Second time I went to track, there is a freaking guy slow down to 15mph before he makes the turn. I nearly rear ended him.

I am running different tires than you (225 Hoosier Koni Spec on 17 rims) but would be interested in on your observations. What track are you going to?

I'll most likely be going to Thunderhill (http://www.thunderhill.com) since it's the track I'm most experienced with. But it will be in Nov sometime.

Hello,

I got a 09 RX-8 R3 a few weeks ago and I'd like to prep it for track days. I did a search and the main recommendations were brake pads and fluid. Is there anything else I need? Upgraded diff/tranny fluids? Cooling upgrades? It often gets to the high 90s here during the warmer months.

I got a set of 18x9.5 +45 RPF1s from Brian Goodwin which I'll mount with 245/40/18 tires. An alignment is also planned.

My background: I've been doing track events and a little bit of autocross for the last 8-10 years. Mostly in an S2000 and track-only '95 Miata.

I'm hoping to have the car broken-in in a month or so and I'll hit the track in mid November.

Thanks.

Just a headsup so you don't get surprised. The earlier RX-8's can suffer from fuel starvation in certain corners if there isn't much gas in the tank. I try to keep at least 3/8 a tank of gas in the car when on the track. Not sure if this was fixed in later model years.

If it does happen, the car might throw a CEL and go into limp mode. If you restart the car, it should be fine after that.

I read somewhere Thunderhill is having an HPDE event for something like $110 early in november. It's in the West forum somewhere - if I were closer, and it wasn't on a weekday, I would join you and put 2 R3's on the track... but alas, I'm socal, not norcal... and the weekday thing, haha.

dude--you have track experience and are going out on sticky tires--no need to tell you about the basics--upgrade brake fluid, heavier oil etc etc.
So heres my little hints
1- stay out of the 8K-9K range--that extra 1K rpm builds a hell of a lot heat and it is not worth it--look at dyno plots of others in general.
2- car is VERY forgiving and recovers well--BUT get a performance alignment before going out. The oem alignment sucks big time
3- the tail end of the car can get a little squirrel y on high speed very hard braking--i dont know about the R3 it may not?
4- keep 1/2 tank of gas as a precaution against fuel starvation
5- DO PREMIX--1oz per gallon--seriously
6- the trans is not one you can slam--touch the shifter like you are touching another mans pen--.
7- headroom with helmet requires most to let the back of the drivers seat down a little
7- let the passengers seat down and that increases side vision a lot.
remove the back seats and the pass through lid so you can hear your engine better. They dont save that much weight.
Gotta go--hope that helps.
OD

I don't know how you guys are going to the track with less than half tank? The car runs out of gas after 3 15-20 minute session, do you just buy gas at the track?

I don't know how you guys are going to the track with less than half tank? The car runs out of gas after 3 15-20 minute session, do you just buy gas at the track?

lmao I was thinking the same thing... I actually showed up at the track with a full tank and still had to get more so I could do the last session...
calculated mileage 6mpg :)

also, this is the first time I'm hearing to stay away from the 8-9k range... if anything I end up there a lot, there is a particular corner I go around with the buzzer beeping at me the whole way... and never any heat issues, but to be fair that's on 4 lap practice or 1 1/2 lap timed runs... so the car does get a break..

exactly--you have to gas up between sessions.
I have seen more than one person run the engine to 9K before any shifting occuring during a 30 min session. They think the warning buzzer is a shift light. Wrong.
I am getting 9 to 10 mpg on the track.
OD

exactly--you have to gas up between sessions.
I have seen more than one person run the engine to 9K before any shifting occuring during a 30 min session. They think the warning buzzer is a shift light. Wrong.
I am getting 9 to 10 mpg on the track.
OD

Are you running 18" wheels and stock profile tires?

I always shift at 9K, sometimes above. Fuel cut-off isn't until 9400 or so. I've tried shifting at 8K but it didn't seem optimal to me.

However, the tracks I frequent most are technical with short straights where you are only hitting 90-95 mph between corners (which is 9K-9.5K rpms in third gear).

I am new to my car but will be tracking next summer. The car I am coming from tracking was a '97 M3 lightly mod'd including Toyo RA1s. I want to be set up for next season too.

Related to the last post, it seems my car is pulling hard between 8000 and 9000, so i wouldn't want to give that up. How can I deal with the heat or any other ramifications of doing that repeatedly?

Second question is on lowering the car. As you lower the m3, the geometry gets negatively effected. Is it the same with the RX-8?

I am new to my car but will be tracking next summer. The car I am coming from tracking was a '97 M3 lightly mod'd including Toyo RA1s. I want to be set up for next season too.

Related to the last post, it seems my car is pulling hard between 8000 and 9000, so i wouldn't want to give that up. How can I deal with the heat or any other ramifications of doing that repeatedly?

Trust me, you can do that repeatedly with little to no regard for problems. I wouldn't go to fuel cutout often except by mistake, it's not a pleasant result for smoothness, but living at or around 8-9K is par for the course (track that is) as that's one area of speed you'll be at on many tracks, for much of the time. By the way, at least in the 04-08 Rx-8 the tach is quite optimistic and you're not really at the revs you'll see displayed. In truth there's little to be gained and actually the power trails off after 8K to 8.5K, although it's hard not to end up going there in practice.

Second question is on lowering the car. As you lower the m3, the geometry gets negatively effected. Is it the same with the RX-8?

No the suspension has no such problem if the lowering is reasonable and in fact creates the ability to put in the negative camber you'll want. Just don't overdo the lowering and use good coilovers, not shortened springs.

regarding the heat, I recall one of the race teams (speedsource I think) felt that short shifting generated more heat. they felt it was better to spin the engine faster to get the hot gases out through the exhaust faster or something like that. that might have been with one of their 3 rotor cars however.

Not sure about the rotary, but a 500 RPM drop in a piston car can mean a 5-10F drop in oil temperature. For driving schools, you will be fine running at 9000RPM as long as you have good quality oil and gas. 20 minutes isn't really that much.

I've looked at the dyno thread and there seem to be significant differences among near stock cars how the HP goes near the max RRM. SOme it is near peak or still climbing when they lift at 9000. Some it is dropping off earlier. I guess I would need to get my car dyno'd to know. My M3 peaked at 6350, so except for special circumstances, there was no reason to go above that.

BTW, what is the speed limiter set at on this car? I plan to run the long course at Brainerd in May. They have a 1 mile straight after a turn that I will exit at about 70. I could only get to 130 in my M3 by a speedo that was high. I am wondering what the RX-8 will do. You can go thru the banked turn 1 at full speed. Kieth Code wrote it was his fav corner in North America!

Remember that if you are referring to HP, not Torque, then yes, most will keep climbing, because HP is basically torque multiplied by RPM. If your Torque is dropping faster than your RPMs are climbing, then you will see a HP curve head downwards. Otherwise if torque isn't dropping that fast, staying level, or going up, you will see a HP curve climbing.


If you have an AT, there is a speed limiter at 125mph. MT has no electronic limiter. Aero limits are between 154 and 168, depending on who you talk to, how healthy their 8 is, and how much extra drag they have. (appearance package, spoiler, wind deflector, windows up/down, etc...) Most tracks have NA 8s in the 70-115 range.

I've looked at the dyno thread and there seem to be significant differences among near stock cars how the HP goes near the max RRM. SOme it is near peak or still climbing when they lift at 9000. Some it is dropping off earlier. I guess I would need to get my car dyno'd to know. My M3 peaked at 6350, so except for special circumstances, there was no reason to go above that.

BTW, what is the speed limiter set at on this car? I plan to run the long course at Brainerd in May. They have a 1 mile straight after a turn that I will exit at about 70. I could only get to 130 in my M3 by a speedo that was high. I am wondering what the RX-8 will do. You can go thru the banked turn 1 at full speed. Kieth Code wrote it was his fav corner in North America!

The 8 has nice linear push at the top end, only falls off right before the redline which is part of its charm :) Wind is the 6spds limiter. Is this the track you refer to? http://www.brainerdraceway.com/track-info/3-1-mile-track.html

If so, and you can actually exit that 120deg T10 at 70...then have a mile to wind out...and it's not uphill....I'm surprised the M3 only got to 130. The 8 under those conditions should get there although it's a slow progression in 4th / 5th. Looks like fun, and a bit like here (under General maps, click 'Track Elevation' http://www.theglen.com/Maps/Maps.aspx from the Ninety T1 thru the Back Straight, except that's an uphill and so the car can get to something like 120+ before the 'Inner Loop' which is one of the more exciting high speed transitions depending on your car and skill at winding your way thru there :naughty:

140mph in a RX-8, you probably need a long runway to get there

Turn 10 on the long course is very wide and not that sharp (somewhat more than 90%). Here is the description from the link above:

The straight following Turn 9 runs past the drag strip paddock area down into Turn 10, which is a fast and very wide 120-degree right-hand turn leading out onto the front straight. There is a little dip on the inside that gives the effect of a slight banking, but it may be too early for practical use as an apex. You can swing wide coming out of Turn 10 but check this out carefully since the track surface appears to fall off camber on the outside half of the pavement (it feels as if it does but doesn't look like it).