took it in yesterday.......knowing full well from reading these forums what to look out for. welll, neuralogical flatulation kicked in and forgot to check while i was there.

didn't realize until i pulled onto base this morning and noticed that little reminder on the windshield, 10w-30!!!!!!!

i'll be checking at lunch to see if it's overserviced as well! then they'll get a call from me.

will it be fine, probably, but it annoys me nonetheless....

also asked them about the clutch bearing noise while sitting at idle, they say it's normal even though I had the dealer start a new one in the lot and you couldn't hear that one??!?!?!?!?

i originally took the car in, aside from the oil, because it stalled on me. Yes, that's right, stalled at a traffic light, no reason. started right up, then almost stalled again a week later. they said my car was due for an ECU reflash for whatever reasons, so i'll see if that takes care of the questionable idling!

sorry this post seems off the hilt, i'm kind of not thinking straight right now!

l8r

Ed Morse MAzda Service, Port Ritchie, FL...for those that care.

For what it's worth, Oosik, I got a printout from my first oil change/service (free, because I got the free-service-$500 deal) that said 5-30 had been installed. The service manager said they just had a standard form, but that the proper oil for each car is used (5-20 for the 8, of course).

You know, from reading the Techincal Service Bulletin concerning the spark plug upgrade, I got the impression that the new plugs were to prevent stalling in cars owned by drivers who seldom get the car moving very fast. I find that my poor 8, which is stuck in city driving most of the time, loads up pretty badly and stumbles at idle. Could be an ECU reflash; could be a spark plug thing. Just a thought.

Originally posted by Haze
You know, from reading the Techincal Service Bulletin concerning the spark plug upgrade, I got the impression that the new plugs were to prevent stalling in cars owned by drivers who seldom get the car moving very fast. I find that my poor 8, which is stuck in city driving most of the time, loads up pretty badly and stumbles at idle. Could be an ECU reflash; could be a spark plug thing. Just a thought.

what?

Originally posted by Mitch Strickler
For what it's worth, Oosik, I got a printout from my first oil change/service (free, because I got the free-service-$500 deal) that said 5-30 had been installed. The service manager said they just had a standard form, but that the proper oil for each car is used (5-20 for the 8, of course).

I wonder if the service manager is giving the same answer to other people who drive the MPV or V6 Mazda6. Those Ford Duratec-based V6 use 5W-20 as well for emission purpose.

mazda in oakland also changed mine with some other weight oil.

james

Well, i called them up the following day, not indicating they had just worked on my car and asked "what weight oil goes into the RX8", their response, "that's a good question" WTF!

They then proceeded to inform they put 10w-30 into all the cars, i mentioned 5w-20 they said that was primarily for those that live in colder climates to help with starting and that MAZDA says it's fine?!?

I'm going to e-mail mazda myself I guess, so I can get a printed word on what their stance really is.

No more stalls or almost-stalls, though, the idle feels rough to me there is no negative indication on the tach. You know how you can become so intimately familiar with how you vehicle rides, that if so much as a pebble is stuck in a tread, you can sense something isn't right. Well, that's what this rough idle thing is with me, not constant mind you, just feels like there is a slight "bog" to engine now-and-again. Maybe it's just me....

Oosik, please don't let the dealer get away with this outrageous combination of ignorance and unresponsiveness.

These idiots don't even know what's in the manual -- how can they be trusted to know all the more complicated technical materials they are supposed to use to repair your car? If at all possible, I would find another dealer.

The manual says that 5-20 is right for ALL temperatures. Even if 10-30 were not so bad part of the year, that would be summer, not winter. You are hurting your car turning it over from cold start with thicker oil. Call Mazda and tell them you are having it changed right away, and they owe you the cost of doing it. And ask them what they intend to do about this unacceptable dealer.

I have wondered if possibly that some of the engines that supposedly failed were serviced with the wrong oil. We were told it was injector failure.

More thoughts about 10-30 oil.
I was so outraged by the dealer misstating Mazda's own advice in the manual that I didn't notice you were writing from Florida. If all your driving is there, 10-30 probably will do no more harm than making fuel consumption a trifle higher. In fact, I was surprised when I read the manual that Mazda made no mention that oil thicker than 5-20 would be acceptable at high temperatures.

So is everything fine? I don't think so. If Mazda has changed its mind and decided the manual was dumb, they should say so in writing. This is just one of many examples where things are more confused than they should be, because Mazda either says nothing, or says contradictory things.

Originally posted by oosik
they said my car was due for an ECU reflash... Oosik, any idea what they meant by that? No car is "due" for a reflash in any sense that I know of. That almosts sound like a certain VIN range is supposed to get it. From your later post, it sounds like it cleared up your idle/stall problem so I guess it worked. Can you give more detail on the nature of the reflash?

Interesting how poorly trained and inconsistent the service techs are about oil. Based on comments I read here, when I picked up my car on Thursday I casually asked my service rep what kinda oil they used. He said, "10W-30 absolutely, that's the right grade for San Diego." I said, well the owners manual and mazda specify 5-W-20. He says trust me, I've been doing this forever and owned two RX-7's, you want 10W-30. So I carefully read my 3-page service invoice (I had a lot done to the car) and on page 3 its says they used 5W-20.

I brought this to his attention, and he was way surprised. So we go outback, find a coupla mechanics and ask what did they use. They say, "We always use 5W-20 on the 8's." My guy is way surprised, he says show me so they take him to one service bay where they have 5W-20 in bulk. The sr service rep didn't know, and he doesn't even know who ordered the bulk oil it just "showed up." But he learned something new, apologized for the bum gouge, and promised to use this info for all future RX-8 servicing.

Edit: This was John Hine Mazda in SD; the service rep is Kenny.

It doesn't surprise me that the techs knew about 5w20 while the writers are winging it. The writers rarely see the engine with the cover off. But if you take the cover off and look at the filler cap, it's awfully hard to miss. 5w-20. Says so, right there.

I once had a God-awful '77 Ponitac Sunbird with a Borg Warner 5 speed manual. The trany clanked from day one and the dealer tore into it twice. The second time it was a little stiff shifting. Then the hard freeze came and I couldn't shift without bearing down with all my might. I finally pulled the trany myself and turned it over to see what they put in it. It was green, folks. green. It's supposed to be red. The Borg Warner 5 speed took ATF. It would indeed by nice if we could count on the dealers to put the right stuff in, wouldn't it?

hey, it was a 77 Pontiac. What did you expect? If it wasn't green trannie fluid it woulda been something else. ;-)

OT -

>>hey, it was a 77 Pontiac. What did you expect? If it wasn't green trannie fluid it woulda been something else. ;-)
<<

Eventually it was. Maybe it was everything else.

How's this for a nightmare: The first time the dealer took that transmission apart the mechanic quit in the middle of the job. They had to wait two weeks while they sent another mechanic to train up and mine is the first car he worked on when he came back.

GM is oblivious to the fact that I never bought another GM car since then, but I feel just a little better knowing that I've been punishing them for the next 27 years. that'll learn them!


I see in your other posts why my stiff shifter might have interested you. I doubt seriously, though, that your dealer could have done a stupid thing like refill your transmission with the wrong stuff. I personally like the air-in-the-hydraulic-line theory myself.

Originally posted by bernieunger
I personally like the air-in-the-hydraulic-line theory myself. It's loosening up. I think maybe it was just a break-in thing.

Experience is a wonderful thing... and the techs have very little with the 8.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Oosik, any idea what they meant by that? No car is "due" for a reflash in any sense that I know of. That almosts sound like a certain VIN range is supposed to get it. From your later post, it sounds like it cleared up your idle/stall problem so I guess it worked. Can you give more detail on the nature of the reflash?

honestly no. why i didn't ask, who knows. the manager was talking at mach 1 about everything I had listed that I wanted done, guess I just lost consciousness or sometihng. But he did say my car was due for a reflash.

I sent an e-mail to Mazda NA AND the dealership website in regards to this oil issue so I shouold hear something this week, maybe then I'll ask about the reflash or maybe just call them and inquire. If i di'nt hear form them by wednesday, i'll call them(Mazda NA).

Yeah, it's not running like it was so maybe it did something....

OH JUST REMEMBERED....when he said reflash, in the same sentence, he said, to take care of some horsepower issues and other things........? Not sure what that means.

Also, he mentioned my car was due for the oil pan TSB, so maybe i'll have them do that then put the right oil with another filter in, provided i get the response I want from both Mazda and the dealership.

Originally posted by oosik
OH JUST REMEMBERED....when he said reflash, in the same sentence, he said, to take care of some horsepower issues and other things........? Not sure what that means.
I'd be real careful around this guy. He has no clue what he's talking about out. That's bad enough, but he's trying to act like he does know, and that makes him dangerous. There is no ECU reflash to take care of the HP issue, so who knows what he plans to do or if he will ever honestly tell you what he did.

???? Huh whats the Low down on this 5W-20 ????

I though 5W-30 is the correct oil to use ?????

Originally posted by Maestro
???? Huh whats the Low down on this 5W-20 ????

I though 5W-30 is the correct oil to use ????? Maestro, 5-30 may be correct for new zealand and australia. I think the others are discussing North American auto's. Check your own manual for the correct answer!

Yeah, in North America both the owner's manual and fill cap say 5W-20. It doesn't say "recommended"; it say to use. Interesting that it might be different in your country. That suggests it wasn't a question of auto mechanics, but product liability or something else. Can you confirm 5W-30 is recommended in NZ?

BTW, nice country. You have a lot of fans here following Lord of the Rings movies. ;-)

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Yeah, in North America both the owner's manual and fill cap say 5W-20. It doesn't say "recommended"; it say to use. Interesting that it might be different in your country. That suggests it wasn't a question of auto mechanics, but product liability or something else. Can you confirm 5W-30 is recommended in NZ?

BTW, nice country. You have a lot of fans here following Lord of the Rings movies. ;-)

I just added oil today too and noticed the 5W-20 indentation letters on the oil fill cap. There is absolutely no excuse a dealer could have for using anything other than 5W-20. Maybe I need to get a Sharpie and fill in those indented letters so that even the dumbest mechanic can't make an excuse. Black letters on a yellow cap are pretty hard to miss.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Interesting that it might be different in your country. That suggests it wasn't a question of auto mechanics, but product liability or something else. Can you confirm 5W-30 is recommended in NZ? It seems that it is indeed different for Australia.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10725&highlight=oil+type
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10154&highlight=oil+type

Most puzzling indeed. Can anyone explain this? It can't be an issue of climate since Australia, US and NZ have equally diverse climates. Is there something mechanically different between our cars? Or it is something else like politics or liability?

Originally posted by Haze
You know, from reading the Techincal Service Bulletin concerning the spark plug upgrade, I got the impression that the new plugs were to prevent stalling in cars owned by drivers who seldom get the car moving very fast. I find that my poor 8, which is stuck in city driving most of the time, loads up pretty badly and stumbles at idle. Could be an ECU reflash; could be a spark plug thing. Just a thought.

hmm... from watching the technical training video clip from the FAQ forum, it says that one of the spark plugs (forget trailing or leading) tends to foul up at low rpms (something with the rotary combustion cycle) but cleans itself out at higher rpms. So I guess if you never rev your engine, that could contribute to stalling?

Originally posted by Rotary Titus
hmm... from watching the technical training video clip from the FAQ forum, it says that one of the spark plugs (forget trailing or leading) tends to foul up at low rpms (something with the rotary combustion cycle) but cleans itself out at higher rpms. So I guess if you never rev your engine, that could contribute to stalling?

Well, i know i never had a problem revving the engine. :D

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
I'd be real careful around this guy. He has no clue what he's talking about out. That's bad enough, but he's trying to act like he does know, and that makes him dangerous. There is no ECU reflash to take care of the HP issue, so who knows what he plans to do or if he will ever honestly tell you what he did.

Tru dat! I looked over the documentation from the service done and it just mentions "...reprogrammed PCM..." It's no longer idling like it was so it must have done something.

Here is what I e-mailed Mazda in regards to the oil issue. Though it doesn't answer how I'm supposed fo follow up on it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I recently went into Ed Morse Mazda, Port Ritchie, FL for my first service; oil change, tire rotation. It wasn't until the next morning that I realized that the service dept put in 10w-30 motor oil instead of the recommended 5w-20. I called asking them what type of oil goes into an RX8, their response, "Well that's a good question?" He then proceeded to inform me that they put 10w-30 into all mazda vehicles and that it was approved by mazda for the RX8. How can it be approved for the RX8 when he didn't even know what's required in the first place.

Please explain to me, what kind of response is that from a service department that is responsible for servicing vehicles by mechanics that are supposed to be ASE certified?

And how is it that they still don't know what weight oil goes into an RX8 after it has been on the market for around 6 months? I knew what kind of oil it required before purchasing the vehicle.

My understanding of the warranty granted by Mazda is that if I don't take proper care of my vehicle, as per, the owners manual and what Mazda requires, that Mazda has the right not to honor the warranty due to my negligence, i.e. not putting in the proper, recommended oil.

The information I require from Mazda is what is the oil that is SUPPOSED to be put into the RX8? And if 10w-30 is the improper oil, how dows Mazda plan to rectifiy this situation?

Understand, my situation is not rare. There are several instances where service departments are not servicing the vehicle to Mazda specifications and that the owners are given the "run-around".

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is their response:

Dear Drew,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.

In regard to your inquiry, Mazda recommends using 5W-20 engine oil or
the 2004 Mazda RX-8. The use of 10W-30 engine oil probably will not
harm the engine. However, we do recommend using the oil recommended by
our Product Engineers in Japan.

We continuously work with every dealership in an effort to provide only
the highest quality services to our customers. Your feedback regarding
your experience is important and is valued.

I have documented your comments regarding Ed Morse Mazda for our
corporate record. We continuously evaluate these records as part of our
ongoing commitment to provide only the highest quality products and
services.

Please take a moment to give us your opinion about our e-mail service.
Click the link below to complete a brief, online survey.

http://www.zoomerang.com/survey.zgi?F3TSHLV0X57GC4NHRSHLSH44

Regards,

Lisa Lasky
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what's anyone's advice from this point? Take it up with the service department or Mazda NA?


:confused:

The dealer needs to replace the oil and give you a new filter for free. If Mazda has a specified oil grade for your car the dealership should use it period. Any deviation from that and it is their liability. I would not stand for it myself and I am fortunate because my dealership sees things the same way I do. They have been very accomidating and courteous. Good Luck and thanks for keeping us informed.

You asked a question that Mazda didn't answer -- what are they going to do about your getting the wrong oil. They didn't even give a straight answer to your question of whether the warranty would be endangered, just weasel talk about how your engine "probably" wouldn't be damaged.
I suggest putting Mazda's feet to the fire with very specific questions, best answered yes or no.
Does Mazda officially state that my warranty is completely in force despite the use of 10-30 oil for the first change? (You don't have to ask about other changes, because you'll buy 5-20 yourself -- I use Castrol -- and bring it to the dealer, unless he's convinced you that he's reformed.) If Mazda will not give this assurance in writing, why not?
Will Mazda take action, through the dealer or by reimbursing me, so that I can replace the 10-30 with 5-20 right away? And if not, why not, because substitution of non-recommended oil wthout the owner's knowledge is the fault of Mazda/the dealer Mazda allows to use its name and give authorized service.
On a less yes-or-no basis, you might ask them why they think it is enough to put dealer misconduct like this in THEIR files, to be avaluated, rather than giving the dealer an immediate reprimand and monitoring its compliance. You could add, to cut off a possible excuse, that they should have said so if they really are taking this action.
And copy all of this to the next highest level in Mazda, above the one that replied to you.

Yeah, their use of the word "probably" doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling. Does that mean there's a 51 percent chance the dealership didn't trash your car?

Excellently put Mitch. I agree wholeheartedly that Mazda should answer what "probably" meant. It becomes a legal issue then and one that Mazda will have to stick behind.

Okay, unfortunately I didn't get back on here in time to post what has happened since I posted the e-mails.

I had mentioned I sent a copy of the e-mail to the dearlship/service center, whether Mazda NA contacted them or my e-mail got to them, they responded.

I received a call today from the service dept manager saying he received word that service put the wrong oil in the car. He was extremely apologetic and adamant about having it fixed. I mentioned I had the oil pan TSB due as well. He going to make sure the parts for that were available then get it done all at once.

so the squeaky "engine" gets the oil.......


oh yea, get this.......the service manager mentioned that they have 5w-20 in stock and that should have been used, duh?

Truthfully, i'm not really all that concerned about the engine after one oil change with 10w-30, or should I be?

The thing that really gets-my-goat is that these service techs are getting paid $60+/hour, essentially by me and others bringing their vehicles in, I figure I'm paying this guy about $5.00 for the time it takes to look up the proper oil if it's not commited to memory. You'd think for a quick $5 he'd do it?!?

Originally posted by oosik
I received a call today from the service dept manager saying he received word that service put the wrong oil in the car. He was extremely apologetic and adamant about having it fixed.
he mentioned that they have 5w-20 in stock and that should have been used, duh?

Truthfully, i'm not really all that concerned about the engine after one oil change with 10w-30, or should I be?
Oosik, glad you sorted this out. If you read my post on Page 1 of this thread (near the bottom) your experience and mine are exactly the same EXCEPT in my case the lowly mechanics knew to use 5W-20 even though the service rep insisted it was 10W-30.

As for whether to be concerned or not, I'm not sure why you should be when Aussie/NZ owners are told to use 10W-30. They've got the same car, right?

Oosik - add me to the list of folks happy to hear that it all worked out. Yeah, gotta go with 8_wannabe that you'd likely have been just fine for the duration of having the 10w-30 in it, but this is just another classic case of the customer having to demand that they receive the proper service. It shouldn't have come to this in the first place, but as I've said on numerous occasions here (in several different ways) - if we, as consumers, demand that a dealer/business treat us the way we expect to be treated then they have no choice but to do so or lose our business to someone who will. If someone makes a genuine mistake (even through incompetence) - fine. The dealership, however, has an obligation to make it right and own up for the actions of its employees if proper procedures weren't followed because they were acting as agents of the dealership. Bottom line - as your customer you can either do right by me and make me happy, or I'll ensure that those above you that you don't want to hear from will make you unhappy (and then you can make me happy).

My recruit training company commander put it best 15 years ago: "I can make you smart, or I can make you strong. Which one I choose is up to you." :D

Glad to hear of the resolve. 10W is twice as 5W and I believe that there was a reason that Mazda engineers would require that weight. We know that the tolerances on the rotary are close and that oil is more critical to change earlier, etc. (fuel in oil as checked by other forum members). I would think that everything would be fine if they change it out.

Originally posted by RodsterinFL
...I believe that there was a reason that Mazda engineers would require that weight. I'd like to think so, but on the other hand they recommend 10W-30 for Australia and New Zealand. Who can explain that? It can't be due to climate cuz their climate is as varied as the US. Are their cars different, or -- more likely -- there are liability reasons for the different recommendations?

Just had my oil changed today at 3k miles (first change free from dealer). Dealer did use 5W-20 but the invoice said 5 qts. I noticed it once I got home and checked the oil after half an hour and it was past the top line and past the flat part of the stick. Took it back and they had to drain some out. Word to the wise: READ THE INVOICE.

Originally posted by JD32
Just had my oil changed today at 3k miles (first change free from dealer). Dealer did use 5W-20 but the invoice said 5 qts. I noticed it once I got home and checked the oil after half an hour and it was past the top line and past the flat part of the stick. Took it back and they had to drain some out. Word to the wise: READ THE INVOICE.

i just got my oil changed too. the invoice said 5 qts but didnt say which viscosity. the oil was past the full line but not past the flat part. i talked to the mechanic and he said its about a half quart over. we do that because the rotary burns oil. he said it wont hurt anything.

Mine was filled WELL past the flat part. Service guy tried to tell me this wouldn't hurt the engine - I don't believe it. Shouldn't be hard to just get it to the line. I can take care of the oil consumption.

Originally posted by SCiMMiA
Mine was filled WELL past the flat part. Service guy tried to tell me this wouldn't hurt the engine - I don't believe it. Shouldn't be hard to just get it to the line. I can take care of the oil consumption.

EXACTLY

Originally posted by SCiMMiA
Mine was filled WELL past the flat part. Service guy tried to tell me this wouldn't hurt the engine - I don't believe it. Shouldn't be hard to just get it to the line. I can take care of the oil consumption.

THANK YOU!!
Amazing how hard it is to do an oil change properly when you are getting paid $72 an hour.

Just so you guys know, the reason for running such thin oil, is to reduce wear on engine startup. The faster the oil can get into the system, the less startup wear occours. 90% of all engine wear occours on engine startup.

Here's some important info found on valvoline website:

"A typical modern car may require a multi-viscosity oil rated at 5W-20, a number that would have been unthinkable a short time ago. But that relatively thinner oil is designed to work in conjunction with the tight engine clearances and provide adequate lubrication from a cold start-up in the winter in Minnesota to a blistering drive across the desert near Phoenix in the summer. If you use a heavier oil because you think it's "better," you'll not only be wrong, you may cause your engine some damage since it won't be properly lubricated during start-up and in cooler weather. Furthermore, if you decide that if a range of 5W-20 is good, then 5W-30 must be better because it's a wider range, you'll also be wrong, since the things done to give that oil the wider range may not necessarily be what your engine needs.

The best oil for your car is what the manufacturer recommends. Use the correct viscosity as outlined in your owner's manual, purchase quality oil from a reputable company, change it regularly, and take good care of your car. "


Would you still put anything other than 5W-20 in your 8???

>>Would you still put anything other than 5W-20 in your 8???

HELL no. 5W-20 between the lines. Period!!

Mine will get changed again in about 1000 more miles. I'll take it to a different dealership and ask them what oil they put in before doing it. the only reason I'll have dealer do it again is I'm really curious if this situation happens again!!

Damn the dealer. My dealer got me. I'm looking at the invoice and it says 5-30 oil installed. I just called and will be taking it back up there. This trip to thdealer hasn't been a pleasant one.

Welcome to a replay of rotarys vs Mazda in the year 1993.

you really have to walk them through what you want

they used 5-30 on me once and they overfilled mine once also

Mazda SELLS 5w30 "rotary oil" in Aus. for use in all of their rotary engines. I wouldn't worry about it. In fact I do my own changes and I'm using 5W30, synthetic no less! oooooh! SCAAARY :p

Uh-oh, is this gonna start another "synthetic vs. regular" debate? What have you done, Nubo? :)

Funny thing happened when my oil was changed at oaktree mazda in san jose california...Got home and checked the oil level and it was way passed the full marker....Took it back yesterday and also had them look at the krappy cd player skipping...The service manager called and said the tech checked the oil level and it was fine and that I must be reading the dipstick wrong...I say B.S. I checked the oil level at least five times and know he's covering his booty along with the service tech....Whe I pick it up tommorow he's going to "teach" me how to pull out the dipstick......I say fess up to the mistake and admit you guys fuc*** up!!!!!!
You can be darn sure I check the oil level before I drive off again....

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
service rep insisted it was 10W-30.
Never beleive a service tech if it sounds fishy, always ask the guys who actually get their hands dirty.