I've been kind of browsing this forum for a little while since I test drove an RX-8 and it's kind of disappointing seeing the attitudes of a good number of the members here. Sure, rotary engines in general require a little more care than piston engines but it's not like the Renesis is prone to popping its apex seals every 80k miles like the 13b-REW in the FD RX-7 does. The old normally aspirated RX-7s were perfectly reliable cars and I would imagine that the RX-8 will be similar given its lack of a turbocharger.

I don't know what it is, maybe there's a high number of people who bought an RX-8 as their first "enthusiast" car and aren't aware of the finer points of rotaries. That would certainly seem to be at least somewhat true given the number of posts I see where this is their first car that's ever had a stick shift.

It seems that the people who have owned rotaries in the past or have been in to cars prior to their RX-8 purchas appear to be the ones acting sanely, while the rest of you seem to be overly paranoid and convinced there is some kind of fatal flaw in the design of the RX-8 or the Renesis motor. Rotaries are a bit finicky but it's not like they flood themselves all the damn time. On top of all this I see people complaining about shops wanting to cut deals in order to get prototype cars in for fitting turbos (this is pretty standard procedure) or that the turbo kit *ghasp* voids the manufacturer's warranty. Of course it will!

I think the general attitude needs to shift away from being a bunch of whiners and more towards enjoying your cars. If you haven't personally had a problem with your car then don't go around blowing problems that you heard about on the internet out of proportion.

Sorry for the rant, but I felt it needed to be said. This kind of word of mouth reputation strikes me as a very large reason there are so many RX-8s sitting on dealer lots. I have no affiliation with Mazda, I'm just a guy who likes the RX-8 and rotary sports cars in general and I would like to see this one sell well.

Id have to agree with alot of stuff said here.

There is alot of very enthusiastic owners as well and im definately one of them.

It can be easier to remember the negative posts over the positive however and also the areas in the forum that are visited may have more negative responses than positive.

For example many clubrsx people say in a thread dedicated to asking would you buy this car again that they would not but the car again because of this and that.

If i bought you coffee every day for a week and at the end of the week I spilled coffee all over your balls and laughed about it you would definately remember that over me buying you all the coffee. Hell I would id think you were a prick hehe. I think that may be whats happening here.

I try not to pay attention to the negative crap.

Usually its people who dont understand that the gas mileage is bad because of the design of the engine and if they didnt do their homework before they bought the car they are just morons. People who complain about the gas light going on all the time and think its a mazda flaw need to pay attention to their gauges ahead of time.

If someone is complaining about flooding and doesnt warm the car in the morning they deserve to flood their engines the next day imho.

If someone took the 500.00 and the free maintainence and still whines about mazda still owes them something i think they should stfu becuase they accepted the offer. They should stop whining especially since its mainly ECU and just get Canzoomers product or wait for other manufacturers.

If someone complains about not wanting to change the oil every 3k miles they should sell their car and do their homework next time.

Im sure this is the majority of the stuff you are seeing.

What many here also are doing is exactly the opposite.

Not enough hp well Canzoomer has the fix for you. Need to dyno with out the wheel sensors screwing your fuel and timing up? They are working on that too. Want to get the Nav to work with dvd and other crap like Japan? I believe some are working on that too. The gems are few but so very much more substantial than the posts on general complaints.

The general crowds that complain are the ones that didn't take the time to research what they wanted in a car. They simply missed out when the 350Z and G35's were novelty, so they quickly jumped into the RX-8 bandwagon without planning and researching what they were getting into. Now those are the ones that are bitter because they've now acquired cars that get somewhere around the realm of 13 MPG when it's driven the way it should be driven. They would have been better off keeping their econobox.

The only complaint I have about the car my gf and I purchased was a slight clatter. My gf NEVER even noticed. I did. I spoke with the dealership a couple of times, and we worked it out. Love the car now. Hopefully others will be able to work out their complaints with their 8's and get to enjoy them. If they are just one of those bitter people that NEEDS to have a complaint...well...go trade your car in while the value is still high and get another brand of car. Go on those webboards and whine over there.

I know I didn't buy my RX to complain about it. Nor did I expect a brand new model to be flawless. I did expect a vehicle that could easily outperform my own driving abilities, and I am not disappointed. I also like the idea of picking a spot on the road in traffic and taking it without causing a major accident in the process. I am sure my RX and me will enjoy our tenure together, however long that may be.

C.R.

General impression:
Rx8 owners are a touchy bunch. They can't take any negative criticism. Because they are so passionate about their car.

Originally posted by hotpot
General impression:
Rx8 owners are a touchy bunch. They can't take any negative criticism. Because they are so passionate about their car.

This board is no different from any other net forum. Tell me the 350Z owners love it and just sit back and twiddle their thumbs when someone shows up saying the Z is slow?

You're dreaming dude if you think only 8 owners can't take negative comments. Every car enthusiast is passionate about the car he/she owns whether it be a Yugo or a Ferrari.

All in all this site has the least amount of bias compared to some of the other car boards, and in fact alot of people here seem to have some humor.

The main problem is some people did not do any research before they bought their RX8, and some people have never driven a low-torque car before and this has caused them disappointment.

One of the biggest problems I have seen on most boards, and especially here is it appears not many people took the time to read the owners manual.

Check out the Honda S2000 site message boards http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index.php

On that site if it isn't an S2000 it's slow, if it isn't a Honda it's junk.

Originally posted by i3man
This board is no different from any other net forum. Tell me the 350Z owners love it and just sit back and twiddle their thumbs when someone shows up saying the Z is slow?

You're dreaming dude if you think only 8 owners can't take negative comments. Every car enthusiast is passionate about the car he/she owns whether it be a Yugo or a Ferrari.

You're a prime example of excessive touchiness.

I never said that RX8 owners are the only ones that can't take criticism? Although I hoped that RX8 owners would be more cool and open-minded than the rest of them.

If someone tells me that my 8 is not that fast, so what? We get so many more compliments on our car than negative comments (something like 100:1), and I'm happy with that. The 8 has got a few weaknesses, and there is no shame in that.

In general I agree with things except...

Originally posted by zerohour
Usually its people who dont understand that the gas mileage is bad because of the design of the engine and if they didnt do their homework before they bought the car they are just morons. People who complain about the gas light going on all the time and think its a mazda flaw need to pay attention to their gauges ahead of time.
I am sorry but this is the first vehicle I have owned that has not come close to the stated MPG ratings (the majority have always exceeded - and yes I have owned other first gen cars, most recently an RSX Type-S). When I average 4-5 MPG under the stated ratings regardless of how I drive, there is a problem.

It is unfortunate, but the mileage issue would not be such if it had not been overstated. It is all about setting expectations. If the sticker says 18/24, then that is what I expect with normal driving, not 13. This is not about not doing homework or anything else on the consumers part when it is in black and white on the car's sticker and noted on the manufacturer's marketing material.

Again, sorry if this is going off topic, but this is the only sticking point that I have with what is otherwise a stellar product.

RJ

Mazda does not come up with the mileage figures on the sticker, the US EPA does, and for whatever reason their testing method always produces optimistic results for Mazda rotaries. It's the EPA's fault that their mileage estimates are optimistic, not Mazda's. Mazda just prints what the EPA tells it to. Just for comparison's sake I looked up the EPA figures for the FD RX-7 which gets notoriously bad mileage and it is rated at 17/25 mpg.

Maybe this has been explained to you before, maybe it hasn't. I guess people who don't know this fact before buying the car have a reason to be disappointed. The thing is I don't think it's legal for a car company to tell its customers to expect different figures than the EPA estimates, even if the estimates are too optimistic.

Oh and if you guys think that an RX-8 is a hassle, you should just see what Mitsubishi puts Lancer Evolution buyers through. First they don't let you test drive the car until you waive your right to negotiate on price in the event you decide to buy it. Then when you test drive it they pretty much only let you take it for a spin around the block becasue "they want the owners to break the clutches in." Then if you decide to buy the car you have to sign a piece of paper that basically says you understand that Mitsubishi North America strongly discourages you from driving your brand new car on a daily basis. And if all that weren't enough, some dealers send spy photographers to racetracks and take pictures of the cars. If it's got a license plate that they sold, they contact the owner and void the warranty. How's that for customer satisfaction?

I'm goig to echo i3man here- if you think people complain here, you haven't been to very many internet bulletin boards. The amount of whining, nastiness, and just plain hostility out there is really amazing.

Complainers are always louder than satisfied owners, no matter what type of product you're talking about. There's very little of the anger and nastiness you find elsewhere here.

And just because this is apparently a rant thread, you know what I want to rant about? People who can't post things in the right forums!! RX-8 Discussion is where you DISCUSS things about the RX-8- NOT complain about the attitudes of members, not post media articles, and not post another "I got my car" thread if you're not going to talk about why you got it aside from "I liked it." ARGH.

Anyway, that's MY rant for the day.

:)

Ok I admit that I do not visit other car forums and don't want to know how much bitchiness goes on there. But why compare ourselves to others? We should have our own standards (since our car is in a standard of its own) and I just wished that some of the RX8 owners be a bit more cool and show the way to the non-8 ranters.

If you check my posts you will see that I haven't really complained about one aspect of the car. But why does that preclude others from making legit complaints? If the complaint is silly, baseless or unwarranted, other owners (or in many cases-real owners as the person making the complaint is a non-owner) give the whiner a verbal beating.
This forum overall is pretty positive, check the polls and check all the threads, not just the negatively titled ones. Arguements are also much more civil here than in lots of car forums I have checked out.
The flooding issue should be complained about, how do you engineer it out of the third gen Rx7 and then let it pop up again in the Rx8. No one deserves to flood their car. What if you stall after a cold start. I suppose you deserve to get a tow then.
The oil pan issue is real. Isn't actually a service to have people post their problems with the car, so that the general population of buyers can compare issues.
Last point, about rotary newbies. I bought an FD without any idea of what rotary ownership (or FD ownership) was about. I had a vague notion of the fact that a rotary operated in an entirely different manner than a piston engine, and that was it. I now am pretty educated on my cars. Why can't a new owner who might be worried about what he/she got into come here seeking some reassurance.

Originally posted by hotpot
Ok I admit that I do not visit other car forums and don't want to know how much bitchiness goes on there. But why compare ourselves to others? We should have our own standards (since our car is in a standard of its own) and I just wished that some of the RX8 owners be a bit more cool and show the way to the non-8 ranters.


Perhaps yoy should peruse some other boards, it will enable you to see how GOOD this one is. All things considered this is one of the best (also Newcelica.org) is pretty good as well. There will always be complainers, and unfortunately they seem to be the ones that post more than others and make issues appear worse than they are.

With ANY car, some people will get BAD ones, no matter which manufacturer. In the case of the RX-8 and 350Z/G35 - these are new designs and as such will have a slighly elevated amount of issues.

I say to all: If you wanted a 100% tested proven car design, perhaps a Checker (cab) or any ladder frame truck. These have been around forever.

My RX-8 has met ALL my expectations (including fuel mileage) and has even exceeded some (the sound of the engine spinning at 9k, the ride/handling and looks of approval from other drivers)

Does it have some flaws? yes, but only TWO that bother me: The dipstick location, and brake dust. Other than that it is a great car, and I am glad I chose it over a TSX and G35C.

MrFatBooty: You need to learn how to express yourself better. You mean SOME RX-8 owners are as you state. To say they all are is ignorant. I know I dont fit your mold so right there your statement is wrong. Dont judge everybody from a small sampling.

I had never been on any car forum before I became interested in the RX8. If it was not for this forum I may not have bought the 8. Most of the posts on this forum have been helpful, and negative opinions are necessary too to get a good perpective. This forum allowed me to weigh the good against the bad and make a sensible decision. As said, we do need complaints and negative opinions so that we know what to expect.

BTW, I never got to test-drive the car (and never saw it in real) as I had to import it from Japan, and based my buy decision solely on reviews and rx8club.com. Thanks.

Originally posted by Elara
I'm goig to echo i3man here- if you think people complain here, you haven't been to very many internet bulletin boards.
I've been posting on assorted car-related bulletin boards for about six years now. I'm even a moderator on one of them.
Originally posted by Genom
MrFatBooty: You need to learn how to express yourself better. You mean SOME RX-8 owners are as you state. To say they all are is ignorant. I know I dont fit your mold so right there your statement is wrong. Dont judge everybody from a small sampling.
I titled this thread my "general" impression. The first sentence of my post says "good number of members." To me at least, that indicates I was not referring to every single RX-8 owner. If that was not the impression you got then I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

Also I'm curious as to why you capitalized the 'b' in my name. On some of the other boards I post on it is indeed capitalized but not here. Have you seen me post somewhere else?

Originally posted by Senseny
The flooding issue should be complained about, how do you engineer it out of the third gen Rx7 and then let it pop up again in the Rx8. No one deserves to flood their car. What if you stall after a cold start. I suppose you deserve to get a tow then.
It was there in the original SA RX-7 with the carbeurated 12A but they let it pop up again in the fuel injected 13B GSL-SE. When the FC RX-7 came out, yup, it still could be flooded. It was there in the FD too. If it was in the FC then why did they let the problem continue on to the FD? Just because you never flooded your FD doesn't mean it had the same inherent flaw as every other rotary engine Mazda has ever sold. That should also tell you that you don't really have a high likelyhood of flooding your RX-8.

It's just the nature of the rotary. If you talk to any RX-7 owner they may have flooded their car once or twice but for the most part it is avoidable. Sure preventing it requires more attention than you would need to give a Camry, but then again these cars aren't Camrys now are they?

Originally posted by MrFatbooty
I've been posting on assorted car-related bulletin boards for about six years now. I'm even a moderator on one of them.



Then, especially as a moderator, you should know better than to post some obnoxious generalized comment guaranteed to be inflammatory to the majority of people on a specific Internet Bulletin Board. That's just rude.

Here's my story

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17425

Originally posted by Elara
Then, especially as a moderator, you should know better than to post some obnoxious generalized comment guaranteed to be inflammatory to the majority of people on a specific Internet Bulletin Board. That's just rude.
Sure the comment was generalized. I said so when I made it. I don't see why that fact is being pointed out ad infinitum when it's not in dispute.

Look, I'm not trying to say you guys are bad people or something. More than likely there's only so much "gee I like my car" posting that can be made before it gets repetitive and there aren't really a lot of mods available for the car yet so there's not much else to talk about besides its flaws.

All I'm saying is that I've been reading this here board for a while before I decided to finally register and chime in, and the main reason I did so is becaused I perceived a lot of people who are truly dissatisfied with their cars. If that's not the case then fine.

I certainly am not trying to put down the people that actually like their cars and don't complain, in fact that is the opposite of what I'm saying. Those are the types of posts I would rather see instead of yet another fuel mileage or engine flooding worryfest.

Originally posted by MrFatbooty

It seems that the people who have owned rotaries in the past or have been in to cars prior to their RX-8 purchas appear to be the ones acting sanely, while the rest of you seem to be overly paranoid and convinced there is some kind of fatal flaw in the design of the RX-8 or the Renesis motor. Rotaries are a bit finicky but it's not like they flood themselves all the damn time. On top of all this I see people complaining about shops wanting to cut deals in order to get prototype cars in for fitting turbos (this is pretty standard procedure) or that the turbo kit *ghasp* voids the manufacturer's warranty. Of course it will!

I think the general attitude needs to shift away from being a bunch of whiners and more towards enjoying your cars. If you haven't personally had a problem with your car then don't go around blowing problems that you heard about on the internet out of proportion.

Sorry for the rant, but I felt it needed to be said. This kind of word of mouth reputation strikes me as a very large reason there are so many RX-8s sitting on dealer lots. I have no affiliation with Mazda, I'm just a guy who likes the RX-8 and rotary sports cars in general and I would like to see this one sell well.

There are some issues that are legitimate gripes and not just "whining". The flooding issue, imo, is the prime example. The poll showed 20% of owners have already flooded their cars. That's an astounding number, considering I've driven about half a million miles in other vehicles and can only remember a couple of flooding incidents - and THOSE were in carbureted vehicles in bad condition and frigid temps. Those vehicles did recover from the flooding without a tow, as opposed to the RX-8's that require dealer service. I've NEVER flooded a fuel-injected vehicle. This kind of behavior will not be well received in the marketplace especially if the vehicle does not recover from flooding but requires a tow.

The second legitimate issue seems to be mileage. The EPA tested at 18/24 and it is not unreasonable to expect to achieve these numbers or close to them. 13 mpg may only be 5 mpg shy, but given the already low starting point it's almost 30% lower. Totally unacceptable. Obviously, mileage suffers if the car is pushed and I am NOT talking about that. I'm talking about the apparent situation where some owners are getting much lower than projected mileage under normal operation. There's something going on here. Not all of us are filming "fasterer and furiouser" and actually obey the speed limit on occasion without shame.

I don't accept the notion that these items should be waved off with statements such as "It's a sports car, what do you expect"? That is not the issue. I HAVE done my homework, and part of my reading assignment included promotional literature by Mazda which claimed that this new "revolutionary" rotary engine far supassed previous incarnations in terms of mileage, and that the car as a whole was designed to shatter conceptions of sports-car limitations, including reliability.

The car is being marketed as a sportscar with family utility. Despite the hopes of some former rotary enthusiasts this is NOT the next RX7 and NOT a pure sports car where the owners are expected to make major compromises and concessions in the name of performance. Mazda appears to be falling short of the mark on some of their main design goals. Those who bought the car in part because of those design goals are rightly disappointed and it's perfectly reasonable to expect that a large part of the chatter on the board will be directed at those shortcomings.

And yeah, I'm still gettin' one.

I still think the number of people that have flooded their cars is more to do with rotary inexperience than anything else. No I have not reviewed the posts on a case-by-case basis, but how many people that flooded did it for the exact reason that is known to cause the motor to flood? I would say a good proportion, because there's only so many ways to get it to do so. I'm not calling these people stupid by any means--it's just that they might not have known what conditions could cause the motor to flood.

As I already said, you can't really blame Mazda for the EPA's testing procedures resulting in optimistic mileage estimates. Mazda doesn't test the cars for mileage, the EPA does. Mazda is required by law to print the results of the EPA test.

From where I sit, these problems have always been par for the course with rotary engines. While the Renesis was supposedly free from them (and what decent PR department would not try to convince you of this claim) the fact it turned out to be just another rotary with the same old rotary foibles doesn't really make me that upset. Hell, compared to the FD RX-7 the fact that the RX-8 so far suffers only from flooding and low mileage is an achievement if you ask me.

I would still buy one of the cars knowing that I would have to watch out to not flood it and that it would get crappy mileage. I know it's not a Honda Civic or Toyota Camry and am willing to accept the fact that it will require a bit more of my attention in order to avoid some potential issues. Maybe it's because I'm seasoned from driving around various modified cars over the years as opposed to people who are graduating from whatever form of error-free transportation they had before. I don't know.

Originally posted by Nubo
The flooding issue, imo, is the prime example. The poll showed 20% of owners have already flooded their cars.

No, the poll showed that 20% of people who answered the poll have flooded their cars. That's a very important distinction - please consider that polls on an internet forum like this are essentially useless - they have no real statistical value.

I've got around 8000 miles on my RX-8 - never been flooded. To me, it's not an big issue at all. It's a rare occurrence.

The second legitimate issue seems to be mileage. The EPA tested at 18/24 and it is not unreasonable to expect to achieve these numbers or close to them. 13 mpg may only be 5 mpg shy, but given the already low starting point it's almost 30% lower. Totally unacceptable.

Again - 13 mpg is not what the car gets, just what some cars/owners are getting. Personally, I've never got lower than 16 mpg (US), and that was with very hard driving. In winter city driving right now (as bad as it gets for mileage purposes), I'm averaging about 17 mpg US. On the highway, I've got 23 mpg US. There's lots of us getting those sorts of mileage numbers - it seems to be an either/or sort of thing, either your RX-8 gets 13-16 mpg or your RX-8 gets 17-24 mpg. Don't presume that all RX-8s are getting 13 mpg!

Regards,
Gordon

Gordon, nice to see an RX-8 owner actually speaking positively about their car. ;)

Anyway I've said my piece in what I feel is plenty detailed fashion, those of you who disagree feel free to pick it apart and contradict all you want.

This is my 3rd rotary powered car and I currently have a 94 Rx-7 and my 2004 Rx-8. Part of the problem with our car is that its so perfect. I dont mean that in a cocky egotistical way either. The fact is its hard to find anything wrong with the car. Combine that with the fact that the rx-8 has to try and live up to the legend of the 3rd gen rx-7 and you have a recipe for trouble.

Mazda built a car that is simply amazing with the Rx-8. The car gives you everything...and does it very well. It can play weekend racer, refined cruiser, has a touch of luxury and is very practicle. Since its so hard to find fault with the car, the things that get exploited are the so called "power issue" or the so called "flooding issue" or the so called "gas mileage issue".

It doesnt matter that 95 pct of us will never flood this car, or that most of the people bitching about the power have not driven the car. Heres a news flash, the Rx8 is not underpowered. The Rx-8 may get the worst gas mileage at 15-17 City and 20 something highway, but it also offers you a combo that you will never get in any other sports car (such as the luxury, convenience, practicle, handling, 9000 rpm redline, etc).

I believe in this car. I have not seen any sportscars with as good of reviews as the Rx-8 since the 3rd gen Rx-7 in 1992. So they can exploit the "flooding" issue, the "buy back" and anything else they want.

When I get behind the wheel I'm all smiles.

Later.

First i would like to say i really enjoy my 8. I will freely admit that i didnt know hardly anything about a rotary before i bought the car.

I will say that my only disappointment is the fact that i dont have the money to do what i want to my 8 (important things such as snow tires.) however i will express my "confusion" on the gas mileage. its odd to me that some get 13 and some get 17. i my self was getting 13 and now have over 1k on my care and am currently getting 15.5 i do get on it alittle but mostly drive normal. just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by MrFatbooty
As I already said, you can't really blame Mazda for the EPA's testing procedures resulting in optimistic mileage estimates. Mazda doesn't test the cars for mileage, the EPA does. Mazda is required by law to print the results of the EPA test.

I'm sorry but I must still disagree as Mazda is the manufacturer of the car. I realize that the EPA is the party testing but the units were provided by Mazda and Mazda has been quick to proclaim that the new Renesis is so much better on fuel consumption. Five miles per gallon difference on a vehicle getting 25-35 MPG is not as big of a difference than one only getting 13-15 MPG.

I think the real point here is that although there does seem to be a select few that are able to meet or in rare cases exceed the stated mileage estimates, there are still large numbers that are not close. Right now it seems like the majority are not meeting estimates and that is a problem that Mazda should address.

With that in mind, I for one would not be touting the engine as being so much better on fuel when I have a large part of the owners complaining about the MPG.

I really love my car and the RX-8 community has been fantastic but I can't help but feel cheated on the gas mileage.

Originally posted by rjenk
I think the real point here is that although there does seem to be a select few that are able to meet or in rare cases exceed the stated mileage estimates, there are still large numbers that are not close. Right now it seems like the majority are not meeting estimates and that is a problem that Mazda should address.


The point should be that there are a very vocal few who are getting 13 mpg or so - how many on this forum? 50 people, maybe, have registered their low mpg number? (just guessing) Now, how many RX-8s have been sold so far in North America - close to 10,000.

I see absolutely NO REAL DATA that would lead anyone to believe that a very select few are at the higher range, or that the majority are at the lower range. The proportions, statistically, of the 10,000 vehicles are unknown to us. It's fair to say that there are some that are getting noticeably lower mileage than others, and enough of them to consider it significant and worth investigation, but by no means can you conclude that a majority one way or another are at either end of the spectrum.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by rjenk
I think the real point here is that although there does seem to be a select few that are able to meet or in rare cases exceed the stated mileage estimates, there are still large numbers that are not close. Right now it seems like the majority are not meeting estimates and that is a problem that Mazda should address.


Wait a minute. I think you are way drawing too many conclusions from what you THINK rather with what you KNOW.

I personally THINK that the 'SELECT FEW' you talk about are actually those that get (or purport* to get) truly lousy gas mileage. Only they know for sure, but MY GUESS is that they [in order of likelyhood]:

1a. don't know how to accurately determine their REAL gas mileage (e.g., I get only about 13 MPG per TANKFUL) (sigh) I guess thats MPT [miles per tankful].
1b. drive the car incorrectly (e.g, drive around in 3rd or 4th on the highway, 2nd or 3rd around town, or the like)
2. Any other way there is to mis-state and mis-calculate the issue.
3. >>>ACTUALLY have a mileage problem (I THINK these are few and far between).

But I don't KNOW this, as I do not KNOW what the 10,000 or however many cars that have sold - owners mileage records are.

But what shows up here.... and this goes back to the 1st post in this thread that got this all started, is that there are lots of newbies to cars here, newbies to performance cars here, and certainly newbies to rotaries here... and it's human nature to jump to conclusions about every little wimper and moan when someone starts a new thread with a catchy [troll-bait] headline.

*definition: to present, esp. deliberately, the appearance of being; profess or claim, often falsely: a document purporting to be official.

Just my HO and 2c worth.

PS I get virtually spot on the city EPA mileage, and rarely have gone on anything over a 10 mile at a time ride, but when I have I'm in the low 20MPG and I DO know how to figure it EXACTLY!

Ok....the RX 8 is my first real sports car and first rotary engine. I read about it and all before I purchased and nothing jumped out at me that made me think this car was not for me. One thing you must remember...it does not replace the RX 7...a true sports car, it is geared more towards someone who needs the back seat and enjoys the fun of a sports car! I don't think I whine even though I have had a few issues....I think the true enthusiasts sometimes have rose colored glasses on and the rotary is perfect or something!!! I am a Mazda enthusiast and love cars in general. I also think some tone of the emails is misconstrued to be bad, negative, whiny and all when they really aren't all that.....the problem with lack of face to face conversations!!! Relax and just learn from the good and the bad! We are all here cuz we love this car!!! Peace!

Originally posted by MrFatbooty
...maybe there's a high number of people who bought an RX-8 as their first "enthusiast" car and aren't aware of the finer points of rotaries. That would certainly seem to be at least somewhat true given the number of posts I see where this is their first car that's ever had a stick shift.

It seems that the people who have owned rotaries in the past or have been in to cars prior to their RX-8 purchas appear to be the ones acting sanely, while the rest of you seem to be overly paranoid and convinced there is some kind of fatal flaw in the design of the RX-8 or the Renesis motor.

If you haven't personally had a problem with your car then don't go around blowing problems that you heard about on the internet out of proportion. I gotta pretty much agree with Fatty's premise; I haven't read all the intervening comments but I will tonight when I get some time. Those who have owned RX-7's seem much less schizo about the flooding issue than others. I've tried in several threads to contend that flooding isn't that big a deal, but didn't see anyone jumping on that particular bandwagon. I still believe it and I've never owned a Mazda nor any performance car before (see my post here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=213444), 7th post from the top.)

Other than what you read in this forum, because people may tend to be more ascerbic online hiding behind their anonymity, the RX-8 owners I've met are genuinely cool and nice people. Have any of you met an '8 owner face-to-face who was a real ass? You don't need to name names, but in person they all seem to be pretty cool.

I wonder how long this thread will go

I am happy with my rx8

oops, there goes mikeb again trying to stay atop the "Top Posters" list with an irelevant comment.

Everyone I have chatted with are really nice and cool people that's why I say it is tough to read through these things and guess at the tone of the content!! Enjoy your cars everyone...I am!!

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
oops, there goes mikeb again trying to stay atop the "Top Posters" list with an irelevant comment.

A LOT of people on this board like to complicate things and expand things and discuss every single option.

I like to keep things simple and to the point.

Indeed.

This is the first rotary that I have owned and have not complained about anything. I agree that there seems to be alot of whiners.

My motto is: If you don't like it, get rid of it. The car is how it is...

Originally posted by Magnesium
If you don't like it, get rid of it. The car is how it is... Especially true for early buyers who were given the chance to return it scot-free after driving it a month or two. Imagine ... some of them kept the car, took the $500 debit card/free maintenance, and still complain! Those are the ones hardest to tolerate.

Originally posted by Spin9k
Wait a minute. I think you are way drawing too many conclusions from what you THINK rather with what you KNOW.

I personally THINK that the 'SELECT FEW' you talk about are actually those that get (or purport* to get) truly lousy gas mileage. Only they know for sure, but MY GUESS is that they [in order of likelyhood]:

1a. don't know how to accurately determine their REAL gas mileage (e.g., I get only about 13 MPG per TANKFUL) (sigh) I guess thats MPT [miles per tankful].
1b. drive the car incorrectly (e.g, drive around in 3rd or 4th on the highway, 2nd or 3rd around town, or the like)
2. Any other way there is to mis-state and mis-calculate the issue.
3. >>>ACTUALLY have a mileage problem (I THINK these are few and far between).

But I don't KNOW this, as I do not KNOW what the 10,000 or however many cars that have sold - owners mileage records are.

But what shows up here.... and this goes back to the 1st post in this thread that got this all started, is that there are lots of newbies to cars here, newbies to performance cars here, and certainly newbies to rotaries here... and it's human nature to jump to conclusions about every little wimper and moan when someone starts a new thread with a catchy [troll-bait] headline.

*definition: to present, esp. deliberately, the appearance of being; profess or claim, often falsely: a document purporting to be official.

Just my HO and 2c worth.

PS I get virtually spot on the city EPA mileage, and rarely have gone on anything over a 10 mile at a time ride, but when I have I'm in the low 20MPG and I DO know how to figure it EXACTLY!
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
The point should be that there are a very vocal few who are getting 13 mpg or so - how many on this forum? 50 people, maybe, have registered their low mpg number? (just guessing) Now, how many RX-8s have been sold so far in North America - close to 10,000.

I see absolutely NO REAL DATA that would lead anyone to believe that a very select few are at the higher range, or that the majority are at the lower range. The proportions, statistically, of the 10,000 vehicles are unknown to us. It's fair to say that there are some that are getting noticeably lower mileage than others, and enough of them to consider it significant and worth investigation, but by no means can you conclude that a majority one way or another are at either end of the spectrum.

Regards,
Gordon

First off, if you will re-read my post I stated that it "seems like" concerning the points I made...I THINK that covers the think vs. know thing...

Now, considering that there are not 10,000 users subscribed to this forum nor is everyone exclusively from North America I think that it was safe to judge that a significant number of members have expressed concerns regarding gas mileage and it is not 50 out of 10,000 as implied.

But, the one thing that really pi$$es me off though is the attitude that it cannot possibly be something amiss with the car and that people either don't know how to drive or cannot do a simple math calculation to determine the MPG or are just outright lying about the gas mileage. Yes, I have taken your comments personally as I know how to drive (proper gear usage and have experience with many other "performance" cars) and I am fully capable of determining average MPG and finally I am truthfully stating a fact about my vehicle.

So you are getting the stated mileage, congratulations. I am not and have not from the start. I have tried babying the car and driving it hard but mostly I drive is as would any average person would thus expecting to get the average MPG. Sorry but I continually get 13-15 MPG regardless of how the car is driven with the best coming in at 16.

I'm sorry but there are many people experiencing this issue, so much so that it is showing up in more recent reviews. Let's face it, everyone here loves the car or we would not be here. Just because you have been lucky enough to not experience what several other have, don't discount their experience.

My apologies to others since this part of the thread is off the intended topic.

Ray

Originally posted by rjenk
First off, if you will re-read my post I stated that it "seems like" concerning the points I made...I THINK that covers the think vs. know thing...


But, the one thing that really pi$$es me off though is the attitude that it cannot possibly be something amiss with the car and that people either don't know how to drive or cannot do a simple math calculation to determine the MPG or are just outright lying about the gas mileage.

If you are going to be picky, he just stated his opinions in the order of likelihood, he did not say it could not possibly be something wrong with the car. It is just more likely driving style, math error, or other human error. I thought he made some good points.

Just like one of my favorite quotes ever, from MIB (Tommy Lee Jones) "A person is smart, PEOPLE are stupid."

Look at the jury pools and some of their ridiculous decisions and monetary lottery windfalls (ooh, another thread for my long-winded opinions!).

Originally posted by rjenk
So you are getting the stated mileage, congratulations. I am not and have not from the start. I have tried babying the car and driving it hard but mostly I drive is as would any average person would thus expecting to get the average MPG. Sorry but I continually get 13-15 MPG regardless of how the car is driven with the best coming in at 16.

I'm sorry but there are many people experiencing this issue, so much so that it is showing up in more recent reviews. Let's face it, everyone here loves the car or we would not be here. Just because you have been lucky enough to not experience what several other have, don't discount their experience.

My apologies to others since this part of the thread is off the intended topic.

Ray

Relax rjenk, no one is doscounting your experiences. Far from it. One of the four choices was a bonafide problem. Your welcome to own a problem, but I don't know if that's really a good thing, heck if you just normally drove like a manic (heehee) you could be retrained, and with help ... and mediation, you could return to within EPA ratings.

BUT! That being the case you are part of the last group. So definitely take it back to Mazda and the dealer. I wish Mazda would put this issue to bed by dealing with any suspect 'problem' cars by taking on the task to find out what is occuring. maybe they could add a fuel program and some serious memory to record the ongoing engine use parameters for analysis and definitive results.

Hey, I never said I didn't want to get more MPG, so if they can fix you... that fix will likely work its way down the line to a std maintenance ECU release for the rest and our MPG will go up! You've been elected, for better or worse, to help solve the mystery.

Bottom line, if you have a problem, push until you get answers. You'd be a hero, there is no doubt!

Sorry if I got a bit sharp there but I appreciate the opportunity to mouth off. I really, really love my 8 and with the exception of this one issue I could not be more happy with what is without doubt one of the best cars to hit the market lately. It is just a little frustrating at times to have that one issue bugging you.

(...stepping off soapbox, finally...)

In the spirit of the thread though I must say that this forum and those that participate in it are fantastic. I have never seen so many that were quick to offer help on a problem or to just offer support and encouragement when needed (which I have experienced first hand). This seems to be a much closer community than others that I have participated in.

Thanks again folks.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
oops, there goes mikeb again trying to stay atop the "Top Posters" list with an irelevant comment.

There you go being ascerbic again!

(one irrelevant comment deserves another, yes?)

:)

Simon.

Indeed again.

Originally posted by zerohour

If i bought you coffee every day for a week and at the end of the week I spilled coffee all over your balls and laughed about it you would definately remember that over me buying you all the coffee. Hell I would id think you were a prick hehe. I think that may be whats happening here.


Ok let me see if I got this straight. You buy me coffee. Then you spill coffee on my gonads and laugh about it. Then you think I'm a prick?

Ok, all that makes sense. I'm just confused about the part where you keep buying me coffee for no reason.

Originally posted by mikeb
A LOT of people on this board like to complicate things and expand things and discuss every single option.

I like to keep things simple and to the point.


Is this your all-time longest post?

Originally posted by shift_zoom8
Is this your all-time longest post? lol, good catch, shifty. I should have picked up on the irony myself.

Just because some of you guys have the time to write a novel doesn't mean that you are special or that I have the time to do it.

spilling coffee on nuts is wrong...last time that happened i sued McDonald's and won a few million dollars...i then changed my name to Matt and bought a Ferrari...and if you believe that i have a resistor and two wires to sell you that will help you gain 25HP guaranteed...PM me for details

Originally posted by mikeb
Just because some of you guys have the time to write a novel doesn't mean that you are special or that I have the time to do it.

Hehe you don't have the time to "write a novel" but you do to make 5000+ posts? ;) Just messin with you...

Originally posted by rjenk
In general I agree with things except...


I am sorry but this is the first vehicle I have owned that has not come close to the stated MPG ratings (the majority have always exceeded - and yes I have owned other first gen cars, most recently an RSX Type-S). When I average 4-5 MPG under the stated ratings regardless of how I drive, there is a problem.

It is unfortunate, but the mileage issue would not be such if it had not been overstated. It is all about setting expectations. If the sticker says 18/24, then that is what I expect with normal driving, not 13. This is not about not doing homework or anything else on the consumers part when it is in black and white on the car's sticker and noted on the manufacturer's marketing material.

Again, sorry if this is going off topic, but this is the only sticking point that I have with what is otherwise a stellar product.

RJ

You realize...if the "actual" gasmilage was listed on the sticker, you and everyone else would be paying an extra thousand dollars on top of whatever you paid for the car due to gas guzzler's taxes.

Originally posted by noahprtlnd
Hehe you don't have the time to "write a novel" but you do to make 5000+ posts? ;) Just messin with you...

Good call, noahprtlnd!

It does seem a little paradoxical, Mike. That is, the need to write excruciatingly short posts combined with the need to post so often.

Of the 3 RX-7's I have owned and the RX-8 I now own I have never flooded a single one. I also have managed over 20mpg. I purchased a base model to avoid the DSC and the TCS as tail out is the way the car should be driven. It is so easy to control I do not find it an issue. All my RX-7's felt this way and the RX-8 is by far the easiest to control.

No complaints from me. Thank you Mazda for the best rotary yet.

Originally posted by murix
Of the 3 RX-7's I have owned and the RX-8 I now own I have never flooded a single one. I also have managed over 20mpg. I purchased a base model to avoid the DSC and the TCS as tail out is the way the car should be driven. It is so easy to control I do not find it an issue. All my RX-7's felt this way and the RX-8 is by far the easiest to control.

No complaints from me. Thank you Mazda for the best rotary yet.

I totally agree. I really wanted a base model, thought I got a base model until I drove it at night for the 1st time and noticed the Xenon's.....Oh well.