I was just mulling this over in my head as I was warming my 8 up at the airfield this evening with an outside temp of 36 degreesF.

I know that flooding is a prevelant issue with the 8 but I was just wondering which is more suseptible to it the MT or the AT?

No fair! There were two valid answers for me! I went for the non-smartass one.

I'm sure you're aware that you'll have to discard the posted percentages & do some arithmatic kickulations on the side. :)

Never flooded on me...but there was one time that it almost started, kept cranking at it fired. It was around 500 miles into the breakin. I had'nt driven it hard at that point, and the battery seemed to be a little weak. So I was thinking it was a case of a marginal battery and some dirty plugs. Since then not a problem. knock on wood. :) CJ

Hello, Newb here.....what's this "flooding" I've been reading about?

You have to let the 8 warm up before shutting down? What kind of crap is this?

I'm planning on buying one soon, but I don't want 1 if I have to put up with this.

Howdy,

Just thought I'd let you know that I contacted Mazda Australia about the "Short Trip Driving Procedure" which is being issued in the USA (faxed them a copy) and was informed that it didn't apply to Australian spec vehicles.

Mazda AU wouldn't elaborate on the reasons but alluded to there being some fundamental difference with the vehicles. In anycase, I'm not following this procedure and often have to move my car short distances while cold & just started, such as in/out of my driveway, without any flooding occuring.

Maybe Mazda USA should have a word to Mazda AU and find out why it isn't an issue down-under.:)

Pappy.

Originally posted by Rotary Nut
I know that flooding is a prevelant issue with the 8 but I was just wondering which is more suseptible to it the MT or the AT? For heaven's sake, flooding is NOT "a prevelant issue." In another poll, only 2 or 3 people said they have flooded more than once. Despite my requests they failed to identify themselves so I don't even know if its true or they are just troublemakers.

Even conceding that it's true, the small number of people who have flooded more than once leads me to conclude this is a behavioral problem, not a car problem. In other words, if you are burned once you then behave the way your're supposed to and you don't flood anymore. Follow the damn directions! The rest of us, who have never flooded, either follow the owners manual, or ignore the problem altogether and just don't fall within the bell curve which predicts they're not likely to flood no matter what they do. Am I the only one here who understand statistics?

Who takes issue with this analysis? I've posted it in several threads and no one has said I'm wrong. I understand the emotion and inconvenience when you flood and not minimizing its a pain when it happens to you. Hell, I chipped my flywheel and been without my car for 8 days. It's a pain in the ass to me, but in the larger picture chipped flywheels are not a huge RX-8 issue. I contend the same holds for flooding. Who here has flooded more than once!!??

I will spare everyone posting my ugly picture again, but I think flooding qualifies as "a prevalent issue" no matter how one defines that term. As of my writing this, 16% of all people polled say they've flooded at least once, and these numbers are likely only to go up as time passes. I am very curious about (1) why the short move procedure is not in the North American manual and (2) why the Australain members are not getting the special booklet telling them not to perform short moves. I really want to know the answer to the second question.

As I said in other places, at some point in time soon I'm going to ask Mazda in a letter for a formal answer. I'm hoping very much that I get a thoughtful response. I've given them my trust when I wrote my check and I want them to keep it, but they've got to earn it on this one by being open in explaining the problem better and crafting a universal policy in how they will respond when it happens to RX-8 owners. As someone pointed out in another thread, flooding is a huge problem for those who live far from dealerships. It is potentially a major headache for those who must valet park.

addendum: I know I am repeating myself, but in case anyone reads this in isolation I don't want to give the wrong impression. I agree that a "reasonable" response may be that flooding is the problem of those 16% of us who have been so stupid as to have done it, and not Mazda's problem. We may need to stand up and pay our own towing and mechanic's bills. I just think Mazda needs to stand up and say that if it is really their position, since it will apparently affect at least 16% of their North American buyers.

8_wannabe - I agree with you 100%.

MEGAREDS - I can't say I disagree with you, either.

There seems to be two distinct sides to this debate. Those who have flooded their cars, feel this is a prevelant issue. Those who have not (yet) flooded their cars (and I hope we never do), feel that this is a non-issue.

Originally posted by jonalan
8_wannabe - I agree with you 100%.

MEGAREDS - I can't say I disagree with you, either.
LOL, you should be a politician. :D Keep in mind, until a couple days ago I thought my car was flooded, and even though I had it towed to the dealer I hadn't changed my tune that this isn't a big deal. I have since learned it wasn't flooding, it's a broken flywheel but I am also saying broken flywheels aren't a big deal either. Obviously, it's a big deal to my particular car at this particular moment, but not overall to the RX-8 product line.

I have since learned it wasn't flooding, it's a broken flywheel

You can't leave us hanging like that....you gotta tell us how it broke. I mean where you pounding the gears....holding the car at like 9,400 rpms for 60 miles....moving the car using the starter. :D I'm just making stuff up here, but non the less, I'm still interested. CJ

Originally posted by pp13bnos
You can't leave us hanging like that....you gotta tell us how it broke. I mean where you pounding the gears....holding the car at like 9,400 rpms for 60 miles....moving the car using the starter. :D I'm just making stuff up here, but non the less, I'm still interested. CJ None of the above! I don't do that stuff. This is why I'm not upset by the "lost" horsepower; I don't push the car that hard. I don't drop the clutch, grind gears, etc etc. In another thread someone surmised what might have happened, I let my brother drive. I was in the righthand seat. He pulled up to the light and I said, hey you didn't clutch! (he hasn't driven stick in a long, long time.) It sounded stalled and he turned the key and everything seemed ok. But what if it hadn't really stalled? Then he woulda ground the starter. It was like 3 or 4 days later that the starter/flywheel failed.

I hope this doesn't become another "flooding" issue where everyone start to sweat that their flywheel is gonna break. "Hopefully" it's just my bad luck. If I hear anything more I'll be sure to let you know. BTW, I took the car in Friday. Today (Weds) the dealer said he got the new flywheel. what the heck, do you think they flew it in from Japan? Cuz otherwise it shoulda come overnight from Irvine, like 70 miles north of here. So that's in, plus they've changed the oil pan, now they're checking out the cycling a/c. I sent them some good links from this forum including someone else's service ticket that talked about changing the "amplifier" on the a/c to keep it from clutching in and out. My dealer seems open to investigating this stuff, but until then he'd never heard of any a/c problem with the '8.

8-Wannabe - The flooding is a real issue as it happened to me in early November. Started car after it was left out in 20 degree weather all day. Car initially started and ran for about 2 seconds and then stalled. Would not start again. At that time I had never heard of a flooding problem. Car had to be towed to dealer, dealer couldn't start car, plugs had to changed etc.

Since that time I have found much info about the flooding problem and am very careful to let car warm up before turning off. However, I feel this can be a significant inconvenience sometimes - not necessarily the warming up, but always being concerned that someone could start car, pull it out of garage and turn it off without knowing about the flooding issue. What about a valet at a garage? And there are bound to be other circumstances over the years.

I strongly believe this is an issue that Mazda has to address and correct. When you buy a new car for this price you shouldn't have to be concerned about whether the car will start or not.

Originally posted by MJG
8-Wannabe - The flooding is a real issue as it happened to me in early November. Started car after it was left out in 20 degree weather all day. Car initially started and ran for about 2 seconds and then stalled. Would not start again. At that time I had never heard of a flooding problem. Car had to be towed to dealer, dealer couldn't start car, plugs had to changed etc. I understand where you're coming from, but let me ask... have you flooded since? I doubt it.

There are a coupla real issues here. One is adequate education of drivers either via the owners manual or the salesman. Truthfully, I don't expect a salesman to make a big point of this, not if he expects to sell many cars. Related to this is overall unfamiliarity of us owners with the quirks of rotaries. If the new spark plugs truly fix the problem -- and thus far, it seems like they do -- then why doesn't Mazda just include them from the factory?

I know I'm fighting a losing battle here, especially with someone who had to endure the trauma of flooding. Perhaps I should argue instead that this problem will get better, not worse, as we learn about our cars and upgrade spark plugs. Maybe someday this will be a thing of the past. I tend to endure short-term inconvenience if I can see long-term benefits, and that's why I keep saying this is not a big deal. A few months ago, people were returning their cars and consulting lawyers due to "lost" horsepower. Well, that hp is still gone and guess what -- it's barely mentioned in the forum anymore. Sure, people are buying carzoomer's ECU patch but they woulda done that anyway to gain a bit more power or torque. And I predict the flooding thing will fade with time; it's just the issue of the moment. A lotta people have said rotaries are and were always subject to flooding, but a lot of '7 owners have logged in to say they were never even aware of the problem during the years they owned the car. So who knows? I suspect the same eventually will be true of the '8.

If anyone has ever flooded more than once, I sure wish you would identify yourself. Not a single person in this forum has 'fessed up to that. Another reason why I say this really isn't a big deal.

8_wannabe, I respect your thoughtful replies, but I slightly disagree with you.

I don't think flooding more than once is required to qualify this as a real issue. I am not sure if the RX-7 had the same shutdown requirements, and I am assuming it did, but the RX-8 is, I think, aimed at a much wider market, and those errors are bound to happen. Alot.

Maybe right now it didn't happen to anyone more than once. Hell, if I flooded once I would be so paranoid about it that no one would touch my car ever (if that's realistic), and I would make sure I preheat the car, etc. But being afraid to flood it again alone is already a huge downside.

But the car has been available for what, less than 6 months now? Those problems are bound to reappear in time. Maybe you won't ever flood it, but I think it won't be the case for a good proportion of the drivers of this "mainstream" rotary. If the words "CAUTION: COULD FLOOD" was written all over the car and the owner's manual then I wouldn't make such a deal out of this, and it's obviously unrealistic, but the reality is that alot of unsuspecting people are thinking about buying or bought this car.

What is even more interesting are the reports of the AU version being fine at shutdown, and the conflicting reports as to if it is or not covered under warranty for the US models. I'm very intrigued by that.

Wouldn't you agree that, for general usage, this is the single most annoying issue?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
A lotta people have said rotaries are and were always subject to flooding, but a lot of '7 owners have logged in to say they were never even aware of the problem during the years they owned the car. So who knows? I suspect the same eventually will be true of the '8.

If anyone has ever flooded more than once, I sure wish you would identify yourself. Not a single person in this forum has 'fessed up to that. Another reason why I say this really isn't a big deal.

I had a 85 Rx7 (new at the time) and a 94 Rx7 TT . . . neither car had this flooding problem and I never heard of it until I had a RX8 owner tell me about it and then read this forum.

I agree some of the others that this problem MUST be addressed. I can't understand how there are 100's of different make & model cars being produce for the model year 2004 and not one other car has this problem.

It is unreasonable to get stranded for this reason in todays world ... sorry but I really find it hard to beleive that you spent $30k+ on a car and are willing to accept the fact that you might flood your car and get stuck.

Mat, you have hit on exactly my feelings about this issue. It is not so much that the car is no good because of potential flooding. The REAL problem is that Mazda is keeping it their "dirty little secret" and not making sure that the owners are aware. One little paragraph in the "qwick start guide" is not enough. It does not even say anything about flooding - just that "warming up engine improves engine life". It does not tell you that you MUST not shut it down cold - only that "the following procedure SHOULD be followed...". I talked to my salesman about it today and he told me during their tech training they were not told about flooding but only that REPEATEDLY shutting down cold would eventually foul the plugs. I really think that he would have told me after the sale was closed if he had known how important it was. After all, he does not want his customers to be pissed at him!

Mazda needs to come clean and make it very clear to owners or those who are not as fortunate as I was (reading this forum) will get stuck with a car that has to be towed, at least one time, until they understand the risk of cold shutdowns.

The dealership says that they flood cars all the time when they come off the truck.

Ive flooded it once, while pulling into the garage to wax the car after washing. Nobody at the dealership mentioned this an neither did the manual. Will not happen again because i will dump this POS if i dont take a huge loss. The service at the dealership in Westfield Indiana is the worst i have ever experienced. Had milky oil, and they charged me for the oil change (only 2000 miles). Guess what, milky oil is still there. Barely starts now, but of course the dealership could not find anything wrong. Had a nick in a silver painted interior piece when delivered, but instead of replacing it with a new piece like they should have, they just did a piss poor touch up paint job on it. Told me that all GM fuel injected cars will flood, just BS. 16 MPG highway is just the last straw.

Mazda/Ford was the only brand that i would not have gotten a manufacturers discount from the factory through work, and boy did i learn the hard way.

I definately would not recommend this car to anyone, and has been much more painful than any curvy road can overcome.

Ouch, you got a bum deal all around. Really sorry to hear you're so unhappy with the '8. No chance you're gonna try to let it "grow on you?" You can be pretty assured you'll take a big loss if you try to unload it now.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Follow the damn directions! The rest of us, who have never flooded, either follow the owners manual, or ignore the problem altogether and just don't fall within the bell curve which predicts they're not likely to flood no matter what they do. Am I the only one here who understand statistics?

On what basis are you suggesting that the probability of flooding amongst owners follows a gaussian distribution?

Originally posted by Nubo
On what basis are you suggesting that the probability of flooding amongst owners follows a gaussian distribution? Based on this (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17210). I predicted a steep bell curve. Turn the page sideways and see what you get, particularly when you add the first two answers together (both represent those who never flooded.) When you see how sharply it tails off, the chance of a person flooding multiple times is vanishingly small.

Nubo, pretty much everything on this planet falls into normal distrubution (or at least can be approximated by it), hence the gaussian curve. Don't be too surprised, and read about the central limit theorem ;)

"Why don't the Australian's have the flooding issue?"

They don't have winter? Anyone flooded in summer?

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
"Why don't the Australian's have the flooding issue?" Australian's basically don't have problems period. And if they do, they just get drunk and fight and then it doesn't matter. What a great life...:D

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
I thought my car was flooded... I have since learned it wasn't flooding, it's a broken flywheel... Dealer called today; car is ready for pickup. Flywheel replaced (he called it a ring gear I think.) It was the first they'd seen or heard of broken; I'm sure it will happen to all of you since it happened to me. ;) Just kidding!

During the phone call they put the service manager on and he discussed the flooding problem with me in detail. Even though my problem wasn't flooding, he said they were taking pains to educate every RX-8 owner about this to make sure you don't shut down cold. His advice was right on the mark and I didn't let on that I already knew about this. I appreciate his attitude... perhaps a little late, but they're trying to be upfront about it now.

Originally posted by rieskame
The dealership says that they flood cars all the time when they come off the truck.

Ive flooded it once, while pulling into the garage to wax the car after washing. Nobody at the dealership mentioned this an neither did the manual. Will not happen again because i will dump this POS if i dont take a huge loss. The service at the dealership in Westfield Indiana is the worst i have ever experienced. Had milky oil, and they charged me for the oil change (only 2000 miles). Guess what, milky oil is still there. Barely starts now, but of course the dealership could not find anything wrong. Had a nick in a silver painted interior piece when delivered, but instead of replacing it with a new piece like they should have, they just did a piss poor touch up paint job on it. Told me that all GM fuel injected cars will flood, just BS. 16 MPG highway is just the last straw.

Mazda/Ford was the only brand that i would not have gotten a manufacturers discount from the factory through work, and boy did i learn the hard way.

I definately would not recommend this car to anyone, and has been much more painful than any curvy road can overcome.

If your getting 16mpg highway either your not useing 6th gear or lying through your arse. Milky oil on the dipstick is common... maybe the user should learn more about his car before calling it a POS.

You didn't buy an average car, you bought a car that requires special attention to the quirks of its special engine. If your too lazy/ignorant to put up with these things, you don't deserve to drive the car. Period.

Originally posted by pr0ber
If your getting 16mpg highway either your not useing 6th gear or lying through your arse. Milky oil on the dipstick is common... maybe the user should learn more about his car before calling it a POS. I get 16.5 all the time around SD, though a trip I took 500 miles north I got around 19. I had been hoping for the low 20s but didn't get it. I don't think rieskame is too far out of line, but a little on the low end if that is truly hiway cruising mileage (no stop and go.)

Can you expound a little on the milky oil thing? What is that or what causes it? Are we not to be concerned if we see that? I haven't, but I'd probably freak if I did...

Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing on this poll?


AT - 1 out of every 3 flooded at least once

MT - 1 out of every 8 flooded at least once


That's a pretty obvious difference. Is it the cars, or the drivers?

Originally posted by Racer X-8
Anyone else seeing what I'm seeing on this poll?
That's a pretty obvious difference. Is it the cars, or the drivers?

The AT/MT distinction was not lost on me and I think there is something to that theory. I'm also beginning to think that this is not a flooding problem at all, but a "fouling" problem. I'm going to talk to Mazda specifically about that possibility. It's also a bit of a pain if the AT/MT distinction does matter because the AT can't be roll-started (no clutch, sorry to say), as some RX-7 owners have suggested could have been done in my case.

In any event, there is the issue of the emergency start procedure doing absolutely nothing as I ground the battery into near silence. And the infuriating issue of a Mazda dealership putting what is essentially a threat on an invoice, as if I had done something wrong: "Procedures for starting and running vehicle are detailed in the owner's manual." Huh? Where?!?! "Customer will be responsible for any future flooding conditions." Yes, and customer will raise Holy Hell if made to feel stupid again as he looks at his car for 6 days and loses a day of work as his new car sits in the driveway while the rotary mechanics take a holiday. SIX DAYS! This was not a "One Time Goodwill" fix, because it generated no goodwill whatsoever. Hold on, need to calm down... ok, ok, ok.

Guys, gausian curves aside, let us agree to be positive about this "issue" that's affected 15% of us and be positive in getting it resolved. Everyone needs to understand not to shut down cold, wives (even husbands - in your case Cruzdreamer) and valets included. We should know exactly what to do if we make a mistake. Mazda should work like dogs to find a fix and be honest with people thinking of buying this "specialty car" (my dealer's words) about its special needs. Finally, and here I am proposing someting new... we should know exactly what it will cost to have our cars towed and deflooded if it happens - *and* people who are flooded far from home need to get moved to the front of the line and, sometimes by God, a mechanic in an emergency (and I did not have an emergency) may need to actually stay late or come in from home. Right? Is anyone going to disagree with me on any of these points? Anyone? I dare ya... ;)

This is my first time here and the reason I logged in was to see if anyone else was having problems with the engine flooding. I've had the car since November and haven't done anything differently, but this week the engine has flooded twice. The first time I couldn't get it started and had to have it towed to the dealer. A monumental waste of my day. I listened to the lecture on warming up the car (which I already had been doing faithfully). Well, it happened again today after I drove it a few miles to the grocery store. I was in the store approximately 15 minutes, and when I came out it wouldn't start. It was 19 degrees, but my blood was boiling. I did manage to get it started, but I immediately called my dealer and let them have it. I am really ticked off at this point. This isn't just a quirk, it's a major design flaw and a safety issue. What if I had been in a remote area and couldn't get it started?

I agree with a previous comment that this is something that should be reported to the NHTSA. I did that a few minutes ago and noticed that there several complaints already logged. Maybe if we all do it, MAZDA will be forced to do something about this. The complaint can be filed on line and it's easy.

My car is scheduled to go in again Monday for the flooding issue. I'm curious to see what they have to say.

Arthur, welcome to the forum and sorry it was for such an unfortunate reason. I hope you find comfort in numbers here. If it'll make you feel any better (and I'm sure it won't) you are the first I've seen who said you flooded twice. And under mysterious conditions, considering it sounds like you did nothing wrong in either case.