Looks like the last long thread on data acquisition system was back in 2005. With better GPS systems, I am sure there are newer and better versions now. Here is my question:

What system will track the following?

- Steering angle
- throttle position
- Brake position
- RPM
- mph
- g (if possible)
- position on track
- synch up to a video

I am looking to spend no more than a few hundred dollars (at new prices). Also, it will be use just for HPDE, no racing now or in the future.

Looks like the last long thread on data acquisition system was back in 2005. With better GPS systems, I am sure there are newer and better versions now. Here is my question:

What system will track the following?

- Steering angle
- throttle position
- Brake position
- RPM
- mph
- g (if possible)
- position on track
- synch up to a video

I am looking to spend no more than a few hundred dollars (at new prices). Also, it will be use just for HPDE, no racing now or in the future.

I know of Racelogic VideoVbox but its more than few hundred dollars though...
http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=VBOX-Misc-About_VBOX
Maybe other experts can advise too

www.maxqdata.com

They won't give you everything you ask for for $2-300, but at least you can get an idea of what's available.

I have a Traqmate, which will get you everything you want, but it is more like $700 for the basic system (no display, just post-processing on a PC) and you will need to bring your own video camera and provide your own sensors for throttle and steering. If you shop around, you can find them on sale various places (I found a 20% off at SafeRacer.com, for example).

Traqmate Basic (http://store.traqmate.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=31)

Gratuitous video showing Traqmate integration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXO5hZKDeEA)

thanks guys. All of the above equipment don't seem to track throttle and steering input. Where does one get sensors for those?

thanks guys. All of the above equipment don't seem to track throttle and steering input. Where does one get sensors for those?

RX-8 is throttle-by-wire, so you may be able to just tap into this, or there may be an ECU line?

For steering input, a quick Google search yielded the sensor from MyChron:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/ (http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=5118)

Also:
http://www.advantagemotorsports.com/ (http://www.advantagemotorsports.com/Sensors.htm)

Hi

From my understanding, Racelogic can read from CAN
http://www.videovbox.co.uk/_downloads/docs/vvb_data.pdf

I am pretty sure the vbox include steering and throttle input cause it has been fitted although to an motec ecu.

Hope it helps

Way more than a few hundred dollars for the system...
We've been using these with a DL1.
http://www.race-technology.com/string_pot_steering_8_968.html
http://www.race-technology.com/pedal_position_13mm_travel_8_969.html

Thought about using their CAN interface, but after hearing about some mysterious throttle-cut issues, have reconsidered.

Overlays created with trackvision.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3RiZVPHPWE

As Ivan referred to, it appears the CAN interface for RPM and Throttle position is not totally passive, but sends inquires to the ECU through the OBD2 port connection at a faster rate than the ECU likes.

Our car experienced a hard fuel or spark cut at approximately 54 mph in 2nd gear (very repeatable) and the butt dyno was indicating that the car was down on power throughout the rev range. We first suspected another faulty fuel pump but turned out that simply unplugging the DL1 CAN interface from the OBD2 port solved the problem.

This was the first time Race Technology had run into the issue on the RX8, but they believe it can be solved with a software update.

Chris H
06' RX8 B-stock

Looks like the last long thread on data acquisition system was back in 2005. With better GPS systems, I am sure there are newer and better versions now. Here is my question:

What system will track the following?

- Steering angle
- throttle position
- Brake position
- RPM
- mph
- g (if possible)
- position on track
- synch up to a video

I am looking to spend no more than a few hundred dollars (at new prices). Also, it will be use just for HPDE, no racing now or in the future.

Unfortunately, as others have said, it's a pay to play thing, and the current price point is $700-1000+ for a decent system such as the Traqmate, other similar tools are similarly priced. I've seen capabilities ramp up, but the price point stay the same or actually go up as these tools become popular, even essential to get the most from your driving.

For cheap you could try an EFI Dude that will get you started recording engine parameters. But to be truly useful you need a GPS recorder and software to play it back to catch your own failings vs. your car's capabilities.

Thanks guys. It looks like a whole system will cost more than what I am looking for. I may wait for prices to come down or try to rent one for a weekend HPDE.

Thanks guys. It looks like a whole system will cost more than what I am looking for. I may wait for prices to come down or try to rent one for a weekend HPDE.

The other option is to buy stuff a bit at a time. Most of the systems can be upgraded as you go, and the total cost buying it a piece at a time is little more than buying it all at once (and may actually be less, if you take the time to watch for coupons vs. buying it all at once at list price).

For example (using the Traqmate I am familiar with), if you get the basic system for $550 ($700 - 20% coupon somewhere), you will be able to measure lap times and look at lines around the track to find the fastest line. Next year, buy a display unit and your steering/throttle sensors, which will give you real-time feedback on lap times (display unit) and more info on the car (sensors). The third year, add video integration.

To be honest, there is so much information provided by these systems that you are going to be completely swamped. Professional drivers have whole teams of people doing analysis on their data acquisition systems. You may actually be better off starting with a more basic system just to get used to the basic information (lap times, track lines, G-forces, braking/acceleration zones, etc.) and use this to improve your driving first, then decide what if anything else you want to know next. I know that for a 20 minute drive session, I can easily stare at the Traqmate analysis for over an hour trying to figure out what line to take to try next time out.

.....I know that for a 20 minute drive session, I can easily stare at the Traqmate analysis for over an hour trying to figure out what line to take to try next time out.

:yelrotflm ^+1 on that ;) ...but it really does help!

Excellent advice Joe RX-8. A little data can go a long way...you don't want to overload and get locked into analysis paralysis. :)

http://www.performancebox.co.uk/ its vbox based and uses a gps + accelerometers. For 5\600$ might be the best bang for the bucks out there today!

http://www.performancebox.co.uk/ its vbox based and uses a gps + accelerometers. For 5\600$ might be the best bang for the bucks out there today!

You using performance box too........great stuff and value for money in the far east......but no very sure whether they can get it in US and what can of vendor support do they get.

They should have some good support and dealers there too!
The Vbox is a world wide known product so i really think that they should be able to get one directly from the U.S.!
If only Charles R. Hill sold this stuff as well as performance parts :)

There wes a link on the uk site to a USA site where you could buy this. It looks pretty good for the price. The only downsides I see compared to others - mounting - it's a rather bulky box because it's an all-in-one device, the graphing could be somewhat limited, and the GPS data rate appears fixed at 10/sec. Not sure if you can select a higher rate (20/40) for better resolution. Still...for the $$

It's not that bulky indeed, it's rather small! Like a compact camera but deeper :)
Yes the display is not the best but how about traqmate's small one? It is very similar to a gtech but with a pretty accurate gps data acquisition feature. It also recreates the "Missing" points in the acquisition via software if i am not mistaken.

With a limited budget that's what i'd suggest, or a bit more expensive smartycam from Aim but that's because it is italian :p
http://www.smartycam.com/index_ita.htm 1000$ or so i think though, and no can interface :)

There wes a link on the uk site to a USA site where you could buy this. It looks pretty good for the price. The only downsides I see compared to others - mounting - it's a rather bulky box because it's an all-in-one device, the graphing could be somewhat limited, and the GPS data rate appears fixed at 10/sec. Not sure if you can select a higher rate (20/40) for better resolution. Still...for the $$

No very sure abt changing the reflash rate but I thought the mounting is quite brilliant, either in front where you can get instaneous sector/lap time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsoDaPLF2_k
or you can mount it anywhere or even dont mount it (just leave it on the carpet if you have the GPS antenna.

They should have some good support and dealers there too!
The Vbox is a world wide known product so i really think that they should be able to get one directly from the U.S.!
If only Charles R. Hill sold this stuff as well as performance parts :)

Yeah agreed, Charles should add another value product too his arsenal...:)
The AIM smartycam really looks good with both recording and all the data available.....much better than the Go-Pro camera imho......

:eyetwitch...not knocking it .. just observations... Anyone got a pic like in your hand holding it for seeing the real size?

- mounting gadgets where I track MUST be fixed, bolted in, screwed down, no window mounts allowed, no magnets, no sticky pads, no just laying it on the carpet, nothing in the glovebox, etc. Basically the car must be empty unless it's permanently fixed somewhere. That's a challenge and it's getting more strickly enforced around here lately.

..not comparing to Traqmate display but rather its PC sw graphing shown in the user manual. For sure the Traqmate display sucks pretty bad, making it fairly useless IMO except for showing lap time. Anyway if you have enough time to ponder ANY little screen whilst track driving...well.. frankly 1) you're simply not concentrating enough..2) it a track w/those boring long straights..3) or your not driving the twistie bit fast enough :lol: I had my TM up there in front for a while and I basically never even saw it...the focus point is just to close to keep looking at it.

The SmartyCam looks amazing...I might get that if I didn't already have the TM...but yah expensive too :)

:eyetwitch...not knocking it .. just observations... Anyone got a pic like in your hand holding it for seeing the real size?

- mounting gadgets where I track MUST be fixed, bolted in, screwed down, no window mounts allowed, no magnets, no sticky pads, no just laying it on the carpet, nothing in the glovebox, etc. Basically the car must be empty unless it's permanently fixed somewhere. That's a challenge and it's getting more strickly enforced around here lately.

..not comparing to Traqmate display but rather its PC sw graphing shown in the user manual. For sure the Traqmate display sucks pretty bad, making it fairly useless IMO except for showing lap time. Anyway if you have enough time to ponder ANY little screen whilst track driving...well.. frankly 1) you're simply not concentrating enough..2) it a track w/those boring long straights..3) or your not driving the twistie bit fast enough :lol: I had my TM up there in front for a while and I basically never even saw it...the focus point is just to close to keep looking at it.

The SmartyCam looks amazing...I might get that if I didn't already have the TM...but yah expensive too :)

Hi Spin
No problemo and I am not taking it negatively. I am merely sharing what I am currently using. Sorry I cant really compare to Traqmate as I dont have experience with traqmate. Performance box is about palm size as shown in the video infront of the dashbox. I will try to take a pic of performance box in my hand soon.
Its secured by 3 suction cups behind the unit and not a problem even up to 1.3g of corner. However I have a feeling it might not pass your area's tight scrutineering.

Haha...........I guess I am guilty of all 3.....:lol2:
But you are right, you can set your own splits and most of them are set on straight....where I normally take some time to monitor the other vital stats as well...

Cheers

Anyway if you have enough time to ponder ANY little screen whilst track driving...well.. frankly 1) you're simply not concentrating enough..2) it a track w/those boring long straights..3) or your not driving the twistie bit fast enough :lol: I had my TM up there in front for a while and I basically never even saw it...the focus point is just to close to keep looking at it.

I fully agree. The Traqmate display is very simple and I don't care much for the buttons on the display as they don't have positive detents so it can be hard to know if you have pressed the right place -- the only real value is making sure the device is running instead of guessing whether it started recording. However, after the first turn I have completely forgotten about the display until the cool-down lap. Oh, and all the data is stored on the display so it is all you have to pull from the car to go to the laptop.

If you have enough time to take your hands off the steering wheel during a session to fiddle with the display, you need a more challenging track :sad:

If you have enough time to take your hands off the steering wheel during a session to fiddle with the display, you need a more challenging track :sad:

Fully agreed, we are not formula 1 drivers.....no need to adjust anything on the fly.........so best to keep hands on the wheels........:doh:

Other options are the MyChron and DaVid series from AiM Sports. They've even got a HUD-type display that mounts to the steering wheel, F1 style :)

http://www.aimsports.com/products/auto.html

Driftbox: http://www.driftbox.com/

I use my performance box, I believe it was about $450 new. It's not as good as the traqmate, but it is GPS based and it does have a time display. You can break it down with the laptop later.

MoTec.

Don't waste your time with anything less.

Mychrons are cheap. Race Studio software is OK.

VBox has decent hardware but the software is crap.

PI & Percul are a little better then a Mychron for a lot more money.

MoTec has the best software and hardware. The unit supports CAN Bus
SAE J1939 and you can plug it into the ECU. MoTec has already done the CAN Bus signal definitions for you.

The Data logger only collects the data. The Analysis software on a PC is what allows you to review the data.

Trackmapping is done in the analysis software and either uses GPS coordinates or X-axis acceleraometer and distance data to generate a map. If you use the distance thing you'll need to set a beacon reference poit - start/finish so it can connect the ends and extrapolate a track.

http://www.motec.com.au/aboutdata/datacomparison

You can download the i2 Pro Analysis software from MoTec for free and look it over. They include an instruction video and sample files.

Data acquisition is a great tool and can lead to improved performance on track. There are other cheaper options-for instance finding someone with the same (or similar) car as yours who is faster than you and debriefing with them the in and outs of what they are doing on track. That's free. Also, doing lead follow with that individual or an instructor can do wonders. With NASA there is usually an instructor you can snag for a ride along-this can also be incredibly productive and free.
For instance I found someone (way more experienced than me) at Willow Springs in an 8 running 5 secs faster than me. A huge difference needless to say. As a result of our discussions I have plenty to work on the next time there. In terms of HP to weight ration he was clearly at the top of the chart and opened up my eyes to how much room for improvement there is for me...

With that said good luck with your search. Didn't intend to take the discussion in a different direction but thought that the input might help.

^excellent points.. But I wouldn't characterize those activities as "cheaper options" for replacing data logging. Rather, they are part of a whole series of steps important in their own right that a driver can take to vastly improve their performance.

After all a data recorder is only that - a recorder of events and not instruction - it's pretty much an "after the fact" device... you review it afterwards and look for the telltale data that shows you left something on the table or made the car do something that limited its ultimate performance potential.

Watching another driver, riding with another superior driver, or being instructed by someone as you drive is where the 'Ah-Ha!!" experiences occur, where the brain digests and synthesizes all the real-time sensory input occuring with the intellectural strategies planned to hopefully produce a reality that improves upon past events - and is, ideally, recorded for posterity in your data log for review!

I'd have to say the most important learnings I ever had on track were riding with drivers in their race preped cars during track days and experiencing what is possible by pushing the envelope (further than I dared) and then later trying to emulate that same experience. That's learning on the fly and opens your mind to stretching the limits of your car's and your own potential.

As Ivan referred to, it appears the CAN interface for RPM and Throttle position is not totally passive, but sends inquires to the ECU through the OBD2 port connection at a faster rate than the ECU likes.

Our car experienced a hard fuel or spark cut at approximately 54 mph in 2nd gear (very repeatable) and the butt dyno was indicating that the car was down on power throughout the rev range. We first suspected another faulty fuel pump but turned out that simply unplugging the DL1 CAN interface from the OBD2 port solved the problem.

This was the first time Race Technology had run into the issue on the RX8, but they believe it can be solved with a software update.

Chris H
06' RX8 B-stock

If they can fix the CAN Interface, does anyone know if you can access the sensors from the stability control (for us GT owners), even when the system is disabled? It has just about every sensor you'd want to log built in and it would be handy to plug into one port and be done.