Name some things that piss you off when driving. Please no personal attacks here. Since driving in Houston is a daily test of my patience, lets see if you experience the same things that I do.

1. Driving in formation. This isn't an airshow. There is no need to drive the same speed as the car next to you so no one can get by.

2. Trucks! Why trucks? Well here in Houston, every redneck that owns a truck or SUV thinks they are a Nascar driver. More trucks drive fast and try to race here than ricers do. Big road hazards.

3. Not stopping far enough forward. I hate this. It is sort of related to driving in formation. When one person doesn't know where to stop at a light, suddenly no one else does either. I hate it when one person stops about 20 ft short of the white line at the light and the person next to him does the same. The sensor can't pick you up people!!! Scoot up or get off of MY road!

4. Ricers. You figure out that one. They make us all look bad to the cops for the antics they pull, namely the street racers.

5. Rubberneckers. It was a wreck get over it before you cause one too. It only takes one person to get on their brakes that gets everyone else slowing down behind them. It usually cascades down until at some point there is bumper to bumper traffic. All because of someone's curiosity.

6. Driving in Houston. Come on down here and you'll understand!

I can think of others but I want to hear what different people dislike about the roads or people on them in their area. What drives you crazy?

We impatient drivers have a thread going:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17149

I like driving in Houston, but I work nights and get to use our great roads at "off-peak" hours.

What specifically about Houston driving don't you like?

Oh cool there already is a thread. It seems like everytime I drive here someone cuts me off or goes flying past in their truck at 100 mph like it is a race car or runs a red light in front of me, etc... Yet if I do anything wrong regardless of how insignificant (6 mph over the speed limit in a line of cars!), Houston's finest (heavy sarcasm) seem to punish me for it and let the others go by. The cops speed here and run red lights but don't let us do it. Not that they care about anything here. The traffic is too bad. The city is way too far across. I live in Spring and my girlfriend lives in Clear Lake. That is 50 miles away in the same city. The outskirts of San Antonio and Austin are that close to each other and they are 2 totally different cities. Many of the people here drive without insurance and then can't pay when they hot you. Think of what country is closest to here and you'll know who I mean. There are too many things I hate about driving in Houston but they start to run into reasons why I just hate living here. I probably wouldn't mind if driving weren't so frustrating here. I love it at night. There is no one around. There are just too many people on the roads here.

Hey rotary, I know them damn mexicans are anoying, but you only have 1 group of poor drivers to contend with (I can say that since I am, after all, mexican) but here in Miami, I get to suffer with EVERY south american country bumpkin that sold his burro and was able to get some junker to drive. Sadly they dont know english, hardly read spanish, and believe burro speed is the limit.

Or the brasilians that drive without lights at night (and never use a &^%&% blinker either), or the cubans whom believe they own the damn roads, etc etc etc.

Mexico city traffic was just bad. Miami traffic is anoying as all getout since its pointless on most roads. If people just did SPEED LIMIT for gods sake, it would be better.

OK, here's my list:

1) People who run red lights. There is NO excuse for this kind of idiocy! People that do this have a blatant disregard for others' safety, not to mention their own. It would be nice if the cops really cared about this particular offense, because they could easily get their quota at any intersection in San Antonio on a daily basis. But no, they'd rather give you a ticket for doing 5 over on a flat, straight highway. These people deserve to have their vehicles totalled, but unfortunately an innocent driver is usually involved in making this happen. BTW, if any of you 8 owners are red light runners, I wish one of two things for you - 1) A ticket, or 2) A dump truck to abruptly obstruct your path.

2) People who tailgate in rush hour (heavy, but moving) traffic. Yes, I'm in the left lane, along with 5,000 other cars, who are all tailgating each other. Being 100 feet closer to the car in front of me will not get you where you're going any faster. Oh, and since you're tailgating me now, make that closer to 200 feet, so I can keep from getting rear-ended by you, you f-ing moron!

3) People who leave no room for merging traffic during rush hour. This is probably the single largest contributor to traffic congestion in San Antonio. If everyone on the freeway would increase their following distance as they near an on-ramp, traffic could merge at speed. But no, there are too many people from category 2 that also tailgate in the right lane, causing all of the on-ramps to come to a complete stop, so we can play the 'one of us, one of you, one of us, one of you' games at 2 MPH. That's OK, I try to make up for about 10 a-holes per onramp by leaving enough room for 10 cars to get on. If enough people would do this, maybe someday we'd all learn that it actually improves traffic flow!

4) People who drive in the left lane in rush hour until about 500 feet before their exit, then slow to a crawl with their blinker on to cross three lanes of traffic and make their exit, resulting in bringing traffic to a complete halt. Yes, Virginia, there are people that stupid everywhere.

Can you tell what upsets me now? Oh, how about the grand finale - TxDOT spending hundreds of millions of dollars of our tax money to instrument our highways with lane control signals that everyone ignores and ridiculous signs that only serve to irritate us ("MAJOR ACCIDENT AHEAD - DRIVING TIME TO 410 IS 40 MINUTES". Thanks for sharing - if there were another way to get to work, that might be useful information!). Let's not forget all of the cameras so we can watch all the little cars go by on the evening news! If TxDOT would spend 1/10 of that money actually educating drivers about my first 4 points, we wouldn't need all the high-tech nonsense on the roads (even though developing it is currently paying my salary) :D

This has got to be the all-time top: People who drive with freakin' poodles in their lap. Makes me want to grab that damn mutt then throttle the driver, too. Gaaad, it makes me want to puke. All the other stuff you've said, yeah it's annoying, but the poodle-in-the-lap thing just gets my blood boiling. Not to mention its dangerous.

Originally posted by khoney
People who tailgate in rush hour (heavy, but moving) traffic. Yes, I'm in the left lane, along with 5,000 other cars, who are all tailgating each other. Being 100 feet closer to the car in front of me will not get you where you're going any faster. Oh, and since you're tailgating me now, make that closer to 200 feet, so I can keep from getting rear-ended by you, you f-ing moron!

yo, k, very articulate post. Regarding your tailgating issue, I tried making a similar point here (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17149&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) which got misinterpreted so I didn't continue defending myself. There is a great game I play with @-holes like this which I describe in the other thread. Lest this thread digress like the other, no I don't drive in the left lane obstructing traffic. But if you're stuck in the left lane with 5000 other cars cuz that's all the traffic will bear, then some schmoe rides on your bumper like he's somehow gonna get ahead of everyone else. Then yes, I will play my little hook-and-reel-'em-in game, getting him stuck in the right lane.

btw, it's speed "peeves."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by khoney
OK, here's my list:

1) People who run red lights. There is NO excuse for this kind of idiocy! People that do this have a blatant disregard for others' safety, not to mention their own. It would be nice if the cops really cared about this particular offense, because they could easily get their quota at any intersection in San Antonio on a daily basis. But no, they'd rather give you a ticket for doing 5 over on a flat, straight highway. These people deserve to have their vehicles totalled, but unfortunately an innocent driver is usually involved in making this happen. BTW, if any of you 8 owners are red light runners, I wish one of two things for you - 1) A ticket, or 2) A dump truck to abruptly obstruct your path.

yikes a little pissed off at this huh... well little story.. normally I am a very good driver. but everyone has a day where nothing is going right. I actually unconciously ran a red light. I had just lost a close friend and I had been disturbed for the past few days(bills, school, colleges, gf that was mad at me). But things needed to be done and I had to move on. Back to the story. Now this was done before I got my 8(about 5 years ago) but when I ran the light, I realized what I had just done and was scared so sh!tless for the next 10 minutes that i pulled over and was thanking God i had not hit anything. To make matters worse, a guy followed me and decided to have some nice curt words with me. I sat there stone cold just looking at his vein that was popping out of his neck as he called me a stupid white kid who takes the world as his own playpen.. it was not a good day.. so take it easy, no one is perfect . I know I am not and I have learned that the hard way(a whole other story).


2) People who tailgate in rush hour (heavy, but moving) traffic. Yes, I'm in the left lane, along with 5,000 other cars, who are all tailgating each other. Being 100 feet closer to the car in front of me will not get you where you're going any faster. Oh, and since you're tailgating me now, make that closer to 200 feet, so I can keep from getting rear-ended by you, you f-ing moron!


i like to solve this problem by keeping a good distance infront of me. enough so I can make a good easy stop and creep forward if the dumbnut behind me is way too close.


3) People who leave no room for merging traffic during rush hour. This is probably the single largest contributor to traffic congestion in San Antonio. If everyone on the freeway would increase their following distance as they near an on-ramp, traffic could merge at speed. But no, there are too many people from category 2 that also tailgate in the right lane, causing all of the on-ramps to come to a complete stop, so we can play the 'one of us, one of you, one of us, one of you' games at 2 MPH. That's OK, I try to make up for about 10 a-holes per onramp by leaving enough room for 10 cars to get on. If enough people would do this, maybe someday we'd all learn that it actually improves traffic flow!


added bad points are the people who merge in from the center lane into the onramp lane while people are merging on the freeway!

One of my biggest peeves is people talking on cell phones while driving. Particularly irksome is when there are two people in the car and who is the one talking on the phone? The freaking driver that's who! Cars should be required to be equipped with cell phone scramblers that are active whenever the key is on. I've heard that some resturants in Japan have scramblers, to prevent customers from talking on cell phones and distirbing other patrons, wish we had that in the US.

Originally posted by Zoom2X
Cars should be required to be equipped with cell phone scramblers that are active whenever the key is on. I've heard that some resturants in Japan have scramblers, to prevent customers from talking on cell phones and distirbing other patrons, wish we had that in the US.

Actually, they're called jammers. You can buy them in Japan, but illegal in the US except for certain circumstances. What would be way cool would be a directional parabolic jammer. So when the schmuk ahead of you is yakking at 35 mph in the fast lane, you whip out your directional jammer, interupt his phone call, then flash your beams to remind him he really is operating heavy equipment. This would work except he's probably dumb enough to try redialing without coming out of his trance.

But the poodle-in-the-lap is still my top choice. Not only distracting to the driver, but nauseating to everyone else who has to watch.

(this is the same idea as RG's Formation Driving)

my biggest (as i've posted in at least 2 other threads) is people who drive in the left hand passing lane... red light runners don't get me angry (i wish them a quick, painless death, soon) compared to the morons that contribute most heavily to traffic problems: the oblivious dumb-ass.

even at 1.30am, 2.30am, 4.50am, i'll find some lone SOB in the passing lane, just cruizing along at the speed limit (never fast enough, is it??)... yes, i know it's only 90kph, but i wanna do 120. move the f*ck over, dickwad.

Ditto to Wakeech's reply.

I've already vented enough here:

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17149&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

and I feel much better. Thank you. And move your a** over!

I hate the idiots that merge into freeway traffic at 35 MPH. I especially hate it when I am on the onramp and the 35 MPH idiot is in front of me.

Oh yeah, nothing like getting stuck behind a semi merging at 35-40mph onto a freeway moving 75mph. And of course, if there are any cars/SUV's behind you they will dart around you even before the on-ramp ends and smirk as they blast around you. As they blow past I wave. Then when I clear the truck at full throttle I do a fly-by inches from their door mirror. The wake turbulence scares the crap out of them.

You come to a 4-way uncontrolled intersection or one where the signals are inoperative. Cross traffic arrives at the SAME TIME time you do from the left and you both stop. Who has the right-of way? The car on the right, correct?

No the SUV/Soccer mom with the cell-phone absolutely clue-less about the rules of the road has the right-of-way and will either demand it as her God-given right to drive poorly, proclaiming her victorious in her quest to the hair stylist, or blow thru without giving you a look. God forbid she was making a turn and had to set the phone down to turn the blinker on also.

When you approach a 4-way intersection, you establish eye contact with other motorists and if there is a line you take turns. Oncoming traffic has the right-of-way thru the intersection if you are turning left behind them. Soccer moms are notorious for "snaking" a left turn in their Suburbans before oncoming traffic goes thru.

:mad:

Sometimes I'll lay on the horn, knowing whomever she is talking too knows she is driving poorly. Plus she'll probably forget she's even on the phone and will curse at me as a knee-jerk reaction and embarrass herself.
:D

Originally posted by Toadman

Sometimes I'll lay on the horn, knowing whomever she is talking too knows she is driving poorly. Plus she'll probably forget she's even on the phone and will curse at me as a knee-jerk reaction and embarrass herself.
:D


haha... i have a friend from Long Island who does a safety honk anytime he comes to a four way intersection and he sees some soccermom in a "festiva-crusher" (God I lthis term!) yaking on the phone.
The tactic pretty much scares the crap out of them before they could do anything stupid. Thus they behave normally for at least the intersection. :D

Originally posted by Kaliken
"festiva-crusher" (God I lthis term!)
Glad I could be of service...maybe I should look into a copyright.

You and Toadman are absolutely right. Personally, I think there ought to be a quarterly requirement/requalification for anyone with an SUV (soccer moms - this is pointed at you) to have to take said SUV "mudding." Can't do it? Live only in the suburbs? Bouncing around on a wet, muddy dirt road scare you? Here's your station wagon - it'll haul just as much crap. AND GET OFF THE PHONE!!!

Originally posted by Rick
I hate the idiots that merge into freeway traffic at 35 MPH. I especially hate it when I am on the onramp and the 35 MPH idiot is in front of me.

Out here in Philadelphia, we have some of the first limited access highways ever built, and at some of the on-ramps there are NO merge lanes. So, you think 35 is bad. Here some people go down the ramp then STOP at the bottom so they can havea good look or wait for someone to let them in, which will of course never happen because the traffic is moving at 70! One of the main reasons I bought a car that has the pick-up of the 8 is to be able to merge onto these roads. If you are stuck behind a stopped car at the bottom of a ramp, there is very little to do except hope for the best and gun the car into a hole. Praying helps as well. Usually, when I get to these ramps, I will stop at the top and make sure that the car in front of me is accelerating to the highway. If not, I will wait there until the bottom clears so I can get a run up to merge speed by the bottom of the ramp. The whole thing is pretty scary.

As for tailgating, I couldn't agree more. If it weren't for tail-gating then my rear bumper on my 8 would still be original since I got rear ended on Halloween. However, it may have been replaced even still since the ultimate road crime is drunk driving and the kid who hit me was snookered; drunk on one of the busiest highways in the US. Driving really can be quite frightening. Oh well, best of luck to us all.

Here some people go down the ramp then STOP at the bottom so they can have a good look or wait for someone to let them in, which will of course never happen because the traffic is moving at 70! What the.... :eek:

My peeves on the road include

1) SUV/ Pickups that tailgate! Why them moreso than cars? Because if those drivers lose their train of thought while tailgating and something happens in front of the one they are tailgating, due to their extra ground clearance it seems all too possible for them to end up sitting on top of a car. To add on to this peeve their lights shining directly into a back window is a pain too (Glad I have the autodimming mirror).

2) Along the lines of the formation fliers...The people who drive directly next to me! The reason being if for some reason I have to do an emergency lane change (something falls off the back of a truck, a deer runs out in the road, etc.) there is no room to avoid random hazards. Not saying that I should have the full road at my disposal. I'm just saying that it provides a little more security to have options.

3) Ruberneckers who are in traffic travelling the opposite direction. Why do they potentially cause accidents and gridlock where there are no problems?

4) People who insist they must maintain 90mph but they can't go around you to maintain it. They expect you to move even though their indicators and steering work.




My belief when it comes to driving is that while I cannot control what anyone else does while driving I can control my vehicle. This basically means that I cannot make someone speed up, change lanes, stay in their lane or even take a GOOD look in their mirror before changing lanes. My driving pet peeves come from people who border on taking that control away.

Am I the only one here repulsed by lap poodles? And their owners that look like them? Astonishing...

Ordinarily this is the point where I'd bring up the prospect of a cheap thrill for the poodle, but good taste and self-restraint prevent me from taking that leap.

Left lane bandits!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by S3/P3/E2
Ordinarily this is the point where I'd bring up the prospect of a cheap thrill for the poodle, but good taste and self-restraint prevent me from taking that leap.

Thank you for your restraint. Damn Navy pilots. ;)

Houston seems to have its own somewhat unique set of infuriating driving behaviors. Chief among them for me anyhow, are the dump truck and local-delivery semi drivers who insist on doing 45 mph in the fast lane and nothing short of heat-seeking missile will get them to relinquish it. As a note, here in SoCal, that particular behavior seems to be the special turf of the UPS drivers. Okay, they drive a mite faster than 45, but they just will NOT get over.

If anyone's ever driven much in Europe, you'll probably agree with me that the lane discipline, general attentiveness and overall skill level of the majority of drivers on our roads is apalling by comparison.

Originally posted by wakeech
....red light runners don't get me angry (i wish them a quick, painless death, soon) ......

wakeech,
How can you say that? Are you not concerned that a red-light runner might take your life along with their own :confused: or heaven forbid, they walk away scratch-free and you die?

Happy Holidays,
rx8cited

Originally posted by Haze
Out here in Philadelphia, we have some of the first limited access highways ever built, and at some of the on-ramps there are NO merge lanes. So, you think 35 is bad. Here some people go down the ramp then STOP at the bottom so they can havea good look or wait for someone to let them in, which will of course never happen because the traffic is moving at 70!

My first time driving in Philly I had this happen to me, damn near rearended the guy I was so surprized. The other great thing about Philly drivers is that they go when the cross traffic light turns yellow! Only place I've ever driven where they have signs on the traffic signals that say "Wait for Green"!!!!!

Here in Socal we have the "LA hesitation" where you wait after the light turns green to see how many are going to run it, a red light usually means 3 more cars will go.

The "wait for green signs" are for lights where the opposing traffic gets an early green so they can turn in all directions, however I know what you mean, when people here drive they are all about go!

I had a friend a number of years back who started dating a a guy from San Francisco. He had never been East of the Mississippi, when he came to visit. We had a very tough time keeping him alive because he kept trying to cross streets without checking the traffic. He claimed that pedestrians had the right of way. Out here, if you enter a cross-walk without a light on your side, we'll run you over just to impress upon you that the 2 ton steel thing really does have the right of way over pedestrians. It's a tough town.

Originally posted by Haze
The "wait for green signs" are for lights where the opposing traffic gets an early green so they can turn in all directions, however I know what you mean, when people here drive they are all about go!

I had a friend a number of years back who started dating a a guy from San Francisco. He had never been East of the Mississippi, when he came to visit. We had a very tough time keeping him alive because he kept trying to cross streets without checking the traffic. He claimed that pedestrians had the right of way. Out here, if you enter a cross-walk without a light on your side, we'll run you over just to impress upon you that the 2 ton steel thing really does have the right of way over pedestrians. It's a tough town.

well it certainly was different when I was back in college. Students would just cross the street without even looking both ways.. then again it was Ithaca NY.. the real danger were the LandRovers driven by long Island bred sorority girls... yikes! definately have to watch the street when you are in LA!

Originally posted by Haze
Out here in Philadelphia, we have some of the first limited access highways ever built, and at some of the on-ramps there are NO merge lanes. So, you think 35 is bad. Here some people go down the ramp then STOP at the bottom so they can havea good look or wait for someone to let them in, which will of course never happen because the traffic is moving at 70!

I hear ya on that! I was coming up a ramp from one freeway access road to merge onto another (1oW to 1604S), and I was watching the traffic to match speed with them. There wasn't much traffic at all, so I figured no problem! Well, the onramp to 1604 is not really visible until you get right on it, because you're going uphill and sweeping right, and the concrete barriers are in the way. Sure enough, some idiot in a sedan is STOPPED, apparently waiting until no cars can be seen on the horizon. Let me tell you, the RX-8 brakes are AWESOME - I stopped under complete control with 3 people in the car. Laid on the horn and probably was responsible for some soiled upholstery. So I've learned my lesson to always be on the lookout for DRIVERUS TIMIDICUS.

Originally posted by khoney
So I've learned my lesson to always be on the lookout for DRIVERUS TIMIDICUS.

Yup, that's it! Just terrifying if you ask me.

Originally posted by Kaliken
well it certainly was different when I was back in college. Students would just cross the street without even looking both ways.. then again it was Ithaca NY.. the real danger were the LandRovers driven by long Island bred sorority girls... yikes! definately have to watch the street when you are in LA!

Yeah, but that's Ithaca! My brother always referred to it as the most pinko place in New York state, especially when the gun company closed down. I went to Syracuse, my brother went to Cornell so I spent some time down there. Nice place when the gorges weren't calling you into their quiet abysses.

i think you guys would be even more thoroughly pissed off if you rode a motorcycle, everyone's mistakes are even further pronounced as they could be the mistake to end your life.

Even minor things like changing lanes without using your blinker pisses me off, i'd be riding down the middle of a lane (legal in CA) and there would be people changing lanes without signalling, it wouldn't be as bad but they take like 10 seconds to make a lane change! Just jump in the lane, dont mosy on over.

In my business, we call them "donor-cycles."

I gave mine up when I started a family.

Bet you like soccer mom in her Festiva-crusher on the cell phone in the left lane! Pass quickly or die. :eek:

I'm wondering why motorcyles are allowed in the freeway... they are dangerous both to the rider and the ones that are watching out for them. I try not to get close to a motocycle when i'm the freeway cause simple bump would be deadly. Please don't flame me... i think motocyles looks fun and all, but simply too dangerous. But, to each his own.

Originally posted by rotarygod
...3. Not stopping far enough forward. I hate this. It is sort of related to driving in formation. When one person doesn't know where to stop at a light, suddenly no one else does either. I hate it when one person stops about 20 ft short of the white line at the light and the person next to him does the same. The sensor can't pick you up people!!! Scoot up or get off of MY road!... How about 3b. Stopping too far forward. Evidently, these people lack the mentality of comprehending how these kinds of things work. They sit there, cussing out the dad-blame light, thinkin that it done broke on them. I pull up going, "great, I won't have to wait too long, someone's already there.", only to find them totally beyond the white line, where they can no longer trigger the light to change. DUH! :mad:

Bikes & bicycles are no longer logical means of transportation. Sure you can get from point A to point B and it'll be a great experience in doing so - if you survive. Been there, done that, no more, thank God I didn't die to learn the hard way that it's extremely dangerous to do it daily.

Originally posted by Haze
Yeah, but that's Ithaca! My brother always referred to it as the most pinko place in New York state, especially when the gun company closed down. I went to Syracuse, my brother went to Cornell so I spent some time down there. Nice place when the gorges weren't calling you into their quiet abysses.


ya.. I know what you mean.. growing up in CA and went to college at Cornell... after finals those gorges actually kinda looked..umm yeah..

But most definately a good description of the place... sure was a fun time though!

OK, I got my own pet....

Lining up to turn left at a light, the Geezer in front edges into the junction, but does not turn when the light goes red, instead, he puts it in reverse to back out of the junction. OK, give him a break, he IS over 90, and hasn't driven much since his Desoto died.

But now he is three feet away from me, craning his neck for the next green light, WITH HIS REVERSING LIGHTS STILL ON.

O.M.G. I know exactly where his trailer hitch will be in 9 more seconds...8....7....6....I put it in reverse and boot it twenty feet backwards. My passengers asking "What The F....What you doin'?"

Light changes, Geezer misses me by about twelve feet, but a nasty grinding sound as he curbs his rear rim, having the steering cranked for the corner already.......

Jeez!

S

Originally posted by wakeech
(this is the same idea as RG's Formation Driving)

my biggest (as i've posted in at least 2 other threads) is people who drive in the left hand passing lane... red light runners don't get me angry (i wish them a quick, painless death, soon) compared to the morons that contribute most heavily to traffic problems: the oblivious dumb-ass.

even at 1.30am, 2.30am, 4.50am, i'll find some lone SOB in the passing lane, just cruizing along at the speed limit (never fast enough, is it??)... yes, i know it's only 90kph, but i wanna do 120. move the f*ck over, dickwad. Hi, Dickwad here.
If I am going as fast as the law allows, you can find your own way to pass me, Scofflaw. I do not feel compelled to contribute to you breaking the law. Now I usually do not drive in the #1 lane (the one you incorrectly call the "passing lane") but if conditions make that the preferable lane for me, I'll use it.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here some people go down the ramp then STOP at the bottom so they can have a good look or wait for someone to let them in, which will of course never happen because the traffic is moving at 70!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What the....

Believe it or not the Pasadena Freeway here in So. Cal. (it was one of the first freeways anywhere -- they made a lot of mistakes) has stop signs at the bottom of the on-ramps! There is a belief that this was the origin of drag-racing.

Originally posted by bobclevenger
Hi, Dickwad here.
If I am going as fast as the law allows, you can find your own way to pass me, Scofflaw.

hey bob,

if you wanna stick to the speed limit, i'm down with that, but you wouldn't block the passing lane (no, this is the correct term as far as Canadian traffic law for freeways) for 5km by perfectly matching your speed to the car in the right lane, would you?? it's the obliviousness that really perturbs me, and the self-richeousness of some people to enforce upon me something which they haven't any legitimacy to do so.

get mad if you like, but there's a difference between dangerous driving, and getting where you're going, and an entirely different thing to cause traffic congestion (think about the social cost of that for a second or two :p)

Originally posted by bobclevenger
Hi, Dickwad here.
If I am going as fast as the law allows, you can find your own way to pass me, Scofflaw. I do not feel compelled to contribute to you breaking the law. Now I usually do not drive in the #1 lane (the one you incorrectly call the "passing lane") but if conditions make that the preferable lane for me, I'll use it.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, in Texas the written law allows certain individuals to exceed the posted speed limit under certain conditions. This may (and should) be the case in other places as well.

Police officers, whether on or off duty, whether in marked or unmarked cars, with or without lights who are responding to an emergency may exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be responding to an emergency call to help someone whose life is in danger.

Physicians responding to an emergency may also exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be rushing to the hospital to save the life of one of your loved ones. We don't need lights either.

If you are in the left lane and someone wants to pass you, kindly MOVE OVER AT ONCE. It is not your job to decide how fast we need to go, or who is trying to go that fast. Just move it on over.

Thanks in advance.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
As I mentioned in a previous thread, in Texas the written law allows certain individuals to exceed the posted speed limit under certain conditions. This may (and should) be the case in other places as well.

Police officers, whether on or off duty, whether in marked or unmarked cars, with or without lights who are responding to an emergency may exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be responding to an emergency call to help someone whose life is in danger.

Physicians responding to an emergency may also exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be rushing to the hospital to save the life of one of your loved ones. We don't need lights either.

If you are in the left lane and someone wants to pass you, kindly MOVE OVER AT ONCE. It is not your job to decide how fast we need to go, or who is trying to go that fast. Just move it on over.

Thanks in advance.

AMEN!

It's not that I have a HUGE problem with people driving in the "fast" lane (even though the "slower traffic keep right" signs are posted everywhere), it's that they feel NO need (several of the posts in this thread) to move over if THEY have determined that the speed THEY are traveling is fast enough for everyone else (even if it is a little above the limit).

I drive in Houston traffic at 5:00 am, and find there are people who will drive 70 in the "fast" lane, and when I come up behind them (I typically follow a motorcycle policeman in at 80), they will NOT move, and then have the nerve to get mad at me because I am going faster than THEY deem necessary.

The policeman even gets up beside these people and waves them over (after they have blocked him), but as soon as he passes, they are back in the lane at their "chosen" speed.

It's called common courtesy, and it's not so common anymore.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
As I mentioned in a previous thread, in Texas the written law allows certain individuals to exceed the posted speed limit under certain conditions. This may (and should) be the case in other places as well.

Police officers, whether on or off duty, whether in marked or unmarked cars, with or without lights who are responding to an emergency may exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be responding to an emergency call to help someone whose life is in danger.

Physicians responding to an emergency may also exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be rushing to the hospital to save the life of one of your loved ones. We don't need lights either.

......


Hi Speed-ER doc,
Can you post a link that states this written law? I imagine there are a whole lot of drivers down their claiming to fit this category. How do the police know who's legitimately speeding down there if one does not need any marking or lights on one's car?

rx8cited

See the Texas Transportation Code Chapter 545.365 here:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500toc.html

or more specifically here:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500.html#tr070.545.365

There have been attempts to amend this statute, so far unsuccessfully I believe :D

We still get pulled over, but as soon as the officer sees my medical identification, its a "sorry, doc" and I'm back on my way.

I used to think it was just a courtesy I was not ticketed, since police officers and ER docs deal with many of the same issues (public safety, drunk and disorderly, family violence, criminals brought to the ER for medical clearance prior to booking who claim unnecessary police brutality, injured officers on the job, etc).

But I was happy to see an official statute in place. I don't often abuse the privilege.

Originally posted by bobclevenger
Hi, Dickwad here.
If I am going as fast as the law allows, you can find your own way to pass me, Scofflaw. I do not feel compelled to contribute to you breaking the law. Now I usually do not drive in the #1 lane (the one you incorrectly call the "passing lane") but if conditions make that the preferable lane for me, I'll use it.

Agree here. There are times to go fast and when I do I do not expect others to clear a path for me. Lay back a safe distance and flash to pass. If that doesn't work, oh well. Slow down or as said, find your way around. Safely, please. If you find this happening frequently during a drive that is your clue that it is NOT the time to go fast.

Here is another law in Texas you might like, Nubo. You can be ticketed for preventing another vehicle from passing. It is considered racing.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500.html#tr090.545.420

Happy motoring!

Originally posted by wakeech
hey bob,

if you wanna stick to the speed limit, i'm down with that, but you wouldn't block the passing lane (no, this is the correct term as far as Canadian traffic law for freeways) for 5km by perfectly matching your speed to the car in the right lane, would you?? I don't intentionally block anybody. If i'm in the #1 lane it's probably because traffic in the #2 lane is going at less than the speed limit. By the way, I defer to your knowledge of Canadian traffic laws, but it seems to be a really poor use of resources to reserve an entire lane for passing only. Is it really illegal in Canada to travel in the #1 lane unless you are in the act of overtaking another vehicle? Just curious.it's the obliviousness that really perturbs me, and the self-richeousness of some people to enforce upon me something which they haven't any legitimacy to do so. No, I don't feel self-riteous about it; I just don't feel it is my duty to help anyone else break the law. You are free to do so, of course, and take your own chances. As soon as a space in the #2 lane opens up I'll pull over -- until then, just have a little patience and back off my bumper, please.get mad if you like, but there's a difference between dangerous driving, and getting where you're going, and an entirely different thing to cause traffic congestion (think about the social cost of that for a second or two :p) Driving as fast as the law allows gets me to where I am going as soon as legally possible. If traffic is congested it is not because people are driving as fast as the law allows.

Now don't get me wrong, I'd love to drive a lot faster than I do. But it seems that the people who make our laws for us think they know what's best for us. :mad:

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
As I mentioned in a previous thread, in Texas the written law allows certain individuals to exceed the posted speed limit under certain conditions. This may (and should) be the case in other places as well. This is not the case here in Calif. Even marked police cars are required by law to obey the vehicle code (except for equipment violations) unless they have their emergency lights operating.Police officers, whether on or off duty, whether in marked or unmarked cars, with or without lights who are responding to an emergency may exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be responding to an emergency call to help someone whose life is in danger.

Physicians responding to an emergency may also exceed the posted speed limit. Consider that they may be rushing to the hospital to save the life of one of your loved ones. We don't need lights either. Again this is not the case here. Sounds like TX has some pretty sensible laws. Probably due to the distances between places there; some folks are pretty far from a hospital. Around here the ambulances drive slower than most cars just to keep from getting hit by someone who refuses to yield.If you are in the left lane and someone wants to pass you, kindly MOVE OVER AT ONCE. It is not your job to decide how fast we need to go, or who is trying to go that fast. Just move it on over.

Thanks in advance.

Uh, I do if there is a place to do so without slowing down myself. As soon as space in the #2 lane opens up I'll move over. But I refuse to hit someone just to open up a race track in the #1 lane. Hell, I don't usually drive in the #1 lane anyway.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
Here is another law in Texas you might like, Nubo. You can be ticketed for preventing another vehicle from passing. It is considered racing.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500.html#tr090.545.420

Happy motoring! Thanks for the URL. I'm sure that "trying to prevent another vehicle from passing" involves an active attempt to block said other vehicle rather than just driving along in one lane. If you change lanes to pass me and I also change lanes to block you, then that section applies (and it ought to!). Especially since it is in the section defining "racing."

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
Here is another law in Texas you might like, Nubo. You can be ticketed for preventing another vehicle from passing. It is considered racing.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500.html#tr090.545.420

Happy motoring!

I don't know why you give this to me. I did not advocate blocking the lane. And I don't accept the notion that someone who wants to speed somehow has the law on their side or some special right-of-way. That's just plain silly.

Bob-

Your answers are sensible, and you really don't sound like the kind of person that we are upset with. An observant driver who knows what is going on around him, tries to keep traffic flowing, and does not deliberately antagonize others is all anyone could expect.

I don't wan't anyone to have to make unsafe maneuvers to move over, and as long as someone is actively passing other cars, I think the left lane is fine.

As soon as possible, while minimizing weaving, I personally try to be in the right or middle lane and stay out of the left lane in case someone wants to go faster than me. Most of the police attention is on the left lane, and I have seen people I have just passed on the right ticketed because they were driving in the "fast" lane.

Now that is satisfying.

Originally posted by Nubo
Lay back a safe distance and flash to pass. If that doesn't work, oh well. Slow down or as said, find your way around.

This is why I mentioned you. I don't like the "oh well" part. Now you may be a nice guy like Bob who does not want to block traffic, or you may be passive-aggressive and act like you don't know what's going on, and intentionally cruise along even with the car in the next lane, despite my polite attempts to get your attention. I don't know. But I shouldn't have to "find my way around."

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
As soon as possible, while minimizing weaving, I personally try to be in the right or middle lane and stay out of the left lane in case someone wants to go faster than me. Most of the police attention is on the left lane, and I have seen people I have just passed on the right ticketed because they were driving in the "fast" lane.

Now that is satisfying. Indeed! It is also satisfying to see the driver who just shot around you like a bat out of Hell pulled over at the side of the road getting his/her ticket (and getting back behind you as well). Alas, it seems that we don't have real traffic cops here any more.
Yes, it seems that we drive similarly; I just don't take chances with the speed limit, and my insurance rates have benefitted from it.

Originally posted by Racer X-8
How about 3b. Stopping too far forward. Evidently, these people lack the mentality of comprehending how these kinds of things work. They sit there, cussing out the dad-blame light, thinkin that it done broke on them. I pull up going, "great, I won't have to wait too long, someone's already there.", only to find them totally beyond the white line, where they can no longer trigger the light to change. DUH! :mad:
I just quoted myself cuz this happened again last night. So, :D I stopped short of the place that trips the light. Hehe. We sat there for about one minute, then the idiot put it in reverse & got back a little, the light tripped & we went on. DUH! :mad:

While we're rolling here and having so much fun :D, I'd like some opinions on the following scenario please:

I'm in the left lane maintaining a safe following distance between my car and the one in front of me (let's say there's another car in front of the one I'm following one). We're traveling faster than the traffic in the next lane to the right (otherwise I'd be over there if I could maintain my left lane speed) and over the posted speed limit by 10 mph.

Now up my rear comes someone (it's not a police car or emergency vehicle) who wants to pass me.

Am I expected to move to the right even though I'm going to have to slow down quite a bit, or do I have a right stay in the left lane and wait 'til the traffic in the next lane allows me to maintain my current speed?

Scenario is taking place in a locality where it is acceptable to drive in the left lane even if you're not passing :) .

Opinions please ....... thanks.

Happy New Year,
rx8cited

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
See the Texas Transportation Code Chapter 545.365 here:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500toc.html

or more specifically here:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/tr/tr0054500.html#tr070.545.365

There have been attempts to amend this statute, so far unsuccessfully I believe :D ..............



Hi Speed-ER doc,

Thanks for the link I requested. Any idea why "There have been attempts to amend this statute"?

It's interesting that the speed limit exceptions are not mentioned in
the "Texas Driver's Handbook" http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/DLhandbook.pdf .
From page 8-2
"SPEED LIMITS
All drivers are required to obey posted maximum and minimum speed limits.
These limits are designed to provide for the orderly flow of traffic under nor-mal
driving conditions. ...... Drivers must be aware that
cities and counties have the authority to change these limits."

I think Texas should issue you a portable flashing blue or red light so people don't think you're just another speeder wanting to pass unsafely - I'm sure you run into that quite a bit. Okay, and if someone gets caught illegally with one of those lights, make the penalty really stiff.

Happy New Year,
rx8cited

One of my biggest driving peeves is the lack of turn signal use. It does not seem to be getting as much discussion as the left lane clods.

Why does it seem to be so fashionable to not use them? Are people too busy using the cell phone or what? And why does it seem that people don't get pulled over for not using them? IMHO, it's worse than speeding.

Do you folks outside the US have this problem too?

Thanks for listening :).

Happy New Year,
rx8cited

Originally posted by rx8cited

Am I expected to move to the right even though I'm going to have to slow down quite a bit, or do I have a right stay in the left lane and wait 'til the traffic in the next lane allows me to maintain my current speed?

Scenario is taking place in a locality where it is acceptable to drive in the left lane even if you're not passing :) .

Opinions please ....... thanks.

Happy New Year,
rx8cited

Well it's a very fact based scenario, but I would say that if it were me, I would get over out of the faster traffic's way if the right lane, although trafficy, is empty enough to allow me to get into that lane with ease and get back into the left. Even if I will have to slow down a bit for the overtaking vehicle to complete his pass.

My feeling is based on this logic. If this guy has run me down, he is going faster than me, and therefore when I get out of his way, he will pass, and I will never see him again. If I do this quickly and efficiently enough, I should be able to pop right back into the left lane and continue at the speed that I want to go, he has been permitted to go the speed that he wants to go, and there is no harm done to anyone.

Also, you know how it is on roads like that. You can think to yourself, I can get out of this guy's way when there is plenty of open road, but there is always a space and another car and a space and another car, and he is sitting there and sitting there and sitting there. It is definitely better to get right and let him go if there is enough space and the lane changes are safe. This is also not theoretical for me. I do this all the time, and I find that it makes everyone happier. I'm not being followed by someone making me nervous, and he is made suddenly happy by someone being a heads-up driver.

There are of course some roads that are so crowded that if you get into the right lane that you will never get out. If this is the situation, then I think that he has to lump into until you have completed your passes. It's very specific to hte situation, but that's what I would do if I could.

Originally posted by rx8cited
One of my biggest driving peeves is the lack of turn signal use.

Why does it seem to be so fashionable to not use them? Are people too busy using the cell phone or what? And why does it seem that people don't get pulled over for not using them? IMHO, it's worse than speeding.

rx8cited

Beats me. My father never uses a turn signal or his seat belt, and he never has. I think he sees them as totally superfluous to the act of driving. I mean the car will get you where you want to go whether you tell other drivers what you are up to or not. My mother spent years trying to convince him to use the signal, and he wouldn't even respond. It was like the signal was totally beneath notice. I have always wondered about his habit, and I have asked him, but in my entire life, he has never verbalized a response.

I think that it is similar to the first rule of Italian driving "What is behind you does not matter".

Originally posted by rx8cited
I'm in the left lane maintaining a safe following distance between my car and the one in front of me (let's say there's another car in front of the one I'm following one). We're traveling faster than the traffic in the next lane to the right (otherwise I'd be over there if I could maintain my left lane speed) and over the posted speed limit by 10 mph.

Now up my rear comes someone (it's not a police car or emergency vehicle) who wants to pass me.

Am I expected to move to the right even though I'm going to have to slow down quite a bit, or do I have a right stay in the left lane and wait 'til the traffic in the next lane allows me to maintain my current speed?

Scenario is taking place in a locality where it is acceptable to drive in the left lane even if you're not passing :) .

Opinions please ....... thanks.

Happy New Year,
rx8cited I gotta disagree with Haze on this.

If I'm behind a group of cars in the left lane, I am wanting to go faster myself, or at least go as fast as the group of cars I'm behind, and I am trying to get past some slower cars that are in the next lane to the right.

Nobody, except emergency vehicles, which doesn't count in this scenario, nobody has authority over me. The car which has caught up to the pack should identify the situation as the beginning of a traffic congestion situation and get in-line and safely follow me thru. I should maintain my close - yet safe - distance behind the vehicle in front of me, or if I don't, I should pull over and forfeit my position.

Notice that I said that the car which has caught up to the pack should identify the situation !!! If the driver doesn't, or, for whatever reason, begins to act irrationally, I usually pull over & let the jerk go... then I hopefully will not be trapped, and slide-out again behind that vehicle & follow it thru. If I know that I'm gonna get trapped, I will not pull over, unless the jerk gets real dangerous.

If the vehicle exhibits signs of distress, like 4-way flashers, whatever (you can usually tell the difference between a jerk & a person with a genuine sense of urgency), I will always pull over asap, even if I'm gonna get trapped.

Once the congestion clears & I speed-up to my speed & the vehicle is still right behind me, then the situation changes to an open road - I'm in the left lane with a faster vehicle wanting to get by - situation, and I then pull over.

While on the same subject, I find this link an interesting read. It's some guy who's trying to apply some physics (fluid or chaotic dynamics) and non-zero sum game theory into highway traffic behavior:

http://www.amasci.com/amateur/traffic/traffic1.html

Cliff notes: It's all about keeping the flow going and taking it easy.

Cool site, downshift. I'm not able to read it all right now, but I want to later. I've read 1.5 pages so far. I've been doing that "wave eating" thing for a long time. I really works. It's a lot less annoying & saves your clutch & brakes! Not to mention a few fender-benders. Funny how the cars behind you seem to act "relieved", once they start following your lead...even though y'all are still going slowly. :)

I'm pretty damn sure that the "wave" theory has been debunked already..

Psylence - Do you have a reference for the "debunking" of the wave theory? I haven't seen it and would be interested. Actually, Los Alamos has been doing traffic analysis using discrete event simulation using wave analysis for the past couple of years and has had some pretty good success with it. (Its MUCH better than the statistical approach most local governments use - do to much lower cost - that ignores dynamic vehicle interactions!) Just curious, myself. Thx.

OK, here's my two cents worth.

1) The ever-popular scenario where my "safe following distance" becomes some moron's "hey, they left me enough room to jerk my car into" space. Even better when it's raining and they wait to make their move until just before you get opposite their back bumper.

2) Municipalities whose traffic control division has absolutely no clue as to how to set the timing on control signals so that traffic can actually flow smoothly. (Particularly fun during the rush of the X-mas shopping season.)

the people who drive below speed limit, take an hour to make a turn, indecisive drivers, putting on makeup or reading a book while driving, and young punks who blow through stop signs in a residential neighborhood or parking lot!!

Originally posted by Racer X-8

Nobody, except emergency vehicles, which doesn't count in this scenario, nobody has authority over me. The car which has caught up to the pack should identify the situation as the beginning of a traffic congestion situation and get in-line and safely follow me thru. I should maintain my close - yet safe - distance behind the vehicle in front of me, or if I don't, I should pull over and forfeit my position.



Listen to yourself, "nobody has authority over me". This isn't a contest. Driving is just getting from A to B in as safe and efficient a manner as possible. Here you are saying that you won't get over unless someone can MAKE you.

My point is that the guy behind you has run you down. He is therefore going faster than you, and if it won't hurt you to let him go . . . then let him. It'll make his day. He won't get agitated and become a dangerous jerky driver by tailgating, trying to push you out of his way, or passing just you in a dangerous one car blow off move. It's a win win situation. By using a little generosity and intelligence, you can make him happier, off your butt, and you can change back into your lane and accelerate to just where you were so there's no harm done.

Also notice that I am not talking about "forfieting your position". If you are going to lose your place for a thousand cars, then he'll have to stay there until it's clear as I saaid before.

Originally posted by Haze
Also notice that I am not talking about "forfieting your position". If you are going to lose your place for a thousand cars, then he'll have to stay there until it's clear as I saaid before. That's the scenario. We're in agreement afterall. :D

It would be silly to move to the right when Mr. Hotshot can't go any farther forward than to take over your spot. It's also more dangerous to be switching lanes for no good reason. It also complicates the whole situation, which is a more dangerous thing. I worm-in to the right - in front of someone else, who gets upset & pulls left behind Mr. Hotshot, traps me in, I wanted to get behind Mr. Hotshot too, so I try to worm-in between them, the guy I upset gets even more upset at me, etc...all for really - nothing but because of Mr. Hotshot who is the only one who is making the whole thing some kind of "contest". So, now we have at least 3 cars, probably more before it's over, trying to occupy the same space. Can get dicy. All because Mr. Hotshot came up and tried to bully himself past everybody, starting with me.

Originally posted by Haze
Well it's a very fact based scenario, but I would say that if it were me, I would get over out of the faster traffic's way if the right lane, although trafficy, is empty enough to allow me to get into that lane with ease and get back into the left.


You mean like this.

Originally posted by Haze
if it were me, I would get over out of the faster traffic's way if the right lane, although trafficy, is empty enough to allow me to get into that lane with ease and get back into the left. Even if I will have to slow down a bit for the overtaking vehicle to complete his pass.

My feeling is based on this logic. If this guy has run me down, he is going faster than me, and therefore when I get out of his way, he will pass, and I will never see him again. If I do this quickly and efficiently enough, I should be able to pop right back into the left lane and continue at the speed that I want to go, he has been permitted to go the speed that he wants to go, and there is no harm done to anyone.

EXACTLY!! THANK YOU!!

Originally posted by Haze
if it were me, I would get over out of the faster traffic's way if the right lane, although trafficy, is empty enough to allow me to get into that lane with ease and get back into the left. Even if I will have to slow down a bit for the overtaking vehicle to complete his pass.

My feeling is based on this logic. If this guy has run me down, he is going faster than me, and therefore when I get out of his way, he will pass, and I will never see him again. If I do this quickly and efficiently enough, I should be able to pop right back into the left lane and continue at the speed that I want to go, he has been permitted to go the speed that he wants to go, and there is no harm done to anyone.

This is a good scenario. Isn't the alternative one (where the speeding car makes the lane change instead of the non-speeding car) just as good? When there's room the passing manœuver has been made and each is traveling at their own chosen speed. When there's not room -- well, that's called traffic and we all hate it!

Originally posted by bobclevenger


This is a good scenario. Isn't the alternative one (where the speeding car makes the lane change instead of the non-speeding car) just as good? When there's room the passing manœuver has been made and each is traveling at their own chosen speed. When there's not room -- well, that's called traffic and we all hate it! [/B]

...but you're not supposed to pass on the right. do i do it?? yes, to get around the oblivious ones who don't seem to mind me high-beaming them a little... but further down the road when traffic in the right lane is caught up, it could cause a problem.

downshift's link is a great one, illustrating and articulating well traffic theory. extremely applicabel to freeway travel, and most situations in bad city traffic.

Originally posted by bobclevenger


This is a good scenario. Isn't the alternative one (where the speeding car makes the lane change instead of the non-speeding car) just as good? When there's room the passing manœuver has been made and each is traveling at their own chosen speed. When there's not room -- well, that's called traffic and we all hate it! [/B]

Sometimes. If it's wide open, and the guy is going fast enough he can just swing around you . . . but then you shouldn't have been cruising in the left lane to begin with really. (Out here we still believe that the left lane is for passing, although I know that alot of people find that debatable).

If it's trafficy but not locked in, I would say no, and this is my logic. if the guy comes behind you in the left lane, what he sees is not a clear picture of the length of open space between you and the car in front of you. He can't tell that if he makes that move whether he willl be able to move back in to the left lane once ihe is in front of you or not. This is severely exacerbated by the fact that he actually needs twice as much room to make that move than you need to make the change to the right because half of your room will come from the space between you and the car BEHIND you. All of this comes together to make the overtaking car hesitate, slow and do a calculus as to whether he can get away with the move, and for many people that means getting very frustrated when there is maybe enough room and maybe not. He gets frustrated and then does something stupid like tail-gating or that quick one car blow off if he thinks that he can do it, and that move is almost always too close to the bumpers and fast, while his view is limited.

All of this just goes away, if you get out of his way. Your move is much safer and more controlled because the car in front has a better view and actually has more space to make the move. That's my thinking.

If it's trafficy and locked in then it's just best to stay there, and he won't be going anywhere anyway. Noone will. It's like riding on a train. Everyone is going to go one speed.

Sometimes I'll pull over and use Mr. Hotshot as my "battering ram" to open-up that left lane. I wouldn't be so rude (usually :o) to those people up front, but Mr. Hotshot is chompin' at the bit. So I pull over, let him "go to work", file-in behind him and cruise. :D Thank you Mr. Hotshot!

Originally posted by wakeech
...but you're not supposed to pass on the right. And you're not supposed to drive faster than the speed limit either. Why is your infraction any better than mine? If we all did what we were supposed to do we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Originally posted by Haze

If it's trafficy and locked in then it's just best to stay there, and he won't be going anywhere anyway. Noone will. It's like riding on a train. Everyone is going to go one speed.

Great thoughts everyone, I enjoyed reading your views.

My last $0.02 -

It often GETS trafficy and locked in (wolf packs) BECAUSE of usually one person in the front of the left lane line who doesn't understand how to drive properly. Most of us sound very reasonable about it.

I am willing to spend hours posting my thoughts here if I can just get that one person to move it on over and stop impeding traffic flow. Then we can move up to the next wolf pack. :)

Of course during peak traffic times, obviously there is nowhere to go, and no point getting frustrated. Those are not the situations I am concerned with. When I was 17-22 yo, another story. One way beechwood aging mellows things. :D

Originally posted by downshift
While on the same subject, I find this link an interesting read. It's some guy who's trying to apply some physics (fluid or chaotic dynamics) and non-zero sum game theory into highway traffic behavior:

http://www.amasci.com/amateur/traffic/traffic1.html

Cliff notes: It's all about keeping the flow going and taking it easy.

A really appreciate the link! This is the way I always drive, and especially during rush hour. My normal rule is to stay out of the right lane unless I need to exit, but sometimes if I see a big problem, I'll get over there and create a large hole to absorb my constant speed - it allows a ton of people to merge, and I do belive that those behind me take notice of it. Only driver eductaion can cure this problem, which is why most DOT's money would be better spent on education than on traffic monitoring and control technology, which is largely ignored by the travelling public.

Why is it that when you're driving in traffic and try to leave a little room in front of you (so you don't HAVE to come to a stop so often -- something most of us here appreciate since most of us are stick-shifters) that as soon as you leave an inch more than a carlength some [insert favourite derogatory term here] takes it as an invitation to pull in front of you?

Hey Haze and Racer X-8,

Thanks for taking the time to write your opinions regarding my scenario.

While the Haze style is perfectly acceptable if one wishes to follow it, I tend to follow Racer X-8 style for said scenario and sometimes resort to using my four way flashers to indicate HOTSHIT back off since HOTSHIT's just bullying himself or herself through heavy traffic and endangering me and my vehicle by expecting me to make unsafe and unwarranted lane changes. I'm also hoping that someday the flashers will draw a troopers attention and result in a well deserved aggressive driving ticket for HOTSHIT.

Happy New Year,
rx8cited

Originally posted by rx8cited
I'm also hoping that someday the flashers will draw a troopers attention and result in a well deserved aggressive driving ticket for HOTSHIT. Unfortunately, all that would likely get accomplished is a ticket to you for "unnecessary use of emergency flashers" here in Calif. After all, you're easier to catch.:(

Proposed additional (besides what we currently have to do) requirements for getting a drivers license :

1) Study this web site (thanks downshift):
http://www.amasci.com/amateur/traffic/traffic1.html

2) Pass a written exam in Physics/Dynamics as it applies to driving:
(Understand and be able to calculate safe following distance and braking distance for various sizes of stock vehicles at different speeds. Understand and be able to calculate the forces of impact due to various collisions resulting from improper following distances and speeding).

Help me out here people, what did I leave off that you think should be on this list to make driving a better experience :) ?

Happy Holidays,
rx8cited

Originally posted by bobclevenger
Unfortunately, all that would likely get accomplished is a ticket to you for "unnecessary use of emergency flashers" here in Calif. After all, you're easier to catch.:(

I'd love to go to court on that one :D. I'd say to the judge: "Your Honor, I felt like my life was in danger due to the moron behind me tailgating me!. The moron was driving like I did not exist or they could not see me, so I did not want to take any chances."

I hope I can count on a trooper to be more reasonable than what you imply.

rx8cited

Originally posted by rx8cited
I hope I can count on a trooper to be more reasonable than what you imply.

rx8cited I hope you can too. I've just seen too many cases of "Yes, I know that other car was going faster than you, BUT I CAUGHT YOU!!" to give me very much confidence.
The only "bad" ticket I ever got was when I crested a hill doing 45 (the limit prior to the top of the hill), saw the 35 mph sign, saw this guy tailgating me, tried to slow down gradually (so as not to get rear-ended), and then saw the red lights (this was 40 years ago) in my mirror. The cop claimed to have "clocked" us from the top of the hill at 50 mph (a lie, or at least an inaccurate statement) and wrote both of us a ticket. He didn't give a damn about the fact that I was just trying to avoid an accident.

Originally posted by Speed-ER doc
This is why I mentioned you. I don't like the "oh well" part. Now you may be a nice guy like Bob who does not want to block traffic, or you may be passive-aggressive and act like you don't know what's going on, and intentionally cruise along even with the car in the next lane, despite my polite attempts to get your attention. I don't know. But I shouldn't have to "find my way around."

Naw, I am a nice guy. My "oh well" comment was part of my description of how I approach these situations when I wish to travel faster than those ahead, and how I'd like others to behave. I've been both the speeder and the "speed-ee".

I may be annoyed if someone squats in the left lane but after all speeding does not give me the right of way. It is a minor irritation at worst. Depending on the situation it's possible that the slow driver may be in violation by not getting out of the left lane. However I am not a patrolman and so I have no control over the matter other than trying to politely and safely request they move aside. The problem that often develops in this situation are the many drivers who become indignant and resort to unsafe behaviors such as aggressive tailgating and zooming right up to someone's bumper to "make a point". These actions border on homicidal. I've been victim of this behavior and it's far more worthy of being a pet peeve than having to curb my speed jones once in a while.

Originally posted by rx8cited
One of my biggest driving peeves is the lack of turn signal use. It does not seem to be getting as much discussion as the left lane clods.

Why does it seem to be so fashionable to not use them? Are people too busy using the cell phone or what? And why does it seem that people don't get pulled over for not using them? IMHO, it's worse than speeding.

I will definitely go out of my way to accomodate someone who has the courtesy to use their indicators before making a lane change. I think part of the problem is that many drivers will intentionally block you if they see your signals, and so people have given up and operate in stealth mode. Rudeness begetting rudeness.

Just a final reiteration.

Driving is not a competition. When you think things like "I will stay in this lane to punish the guy moving faster than me" all that you are really saying is that "I will win this scenario". That has nothing to do with driving in an efficient intelligent manner. It's an ego thing, and it has no place in driving as tail-gating doesn't, passing in the break down lane doesn't, passing in an on/off merge lane, hitting the brakes just to annoy the guy behind you, intentionally driving at the same speed as the car next to you to annoy the guy behind you, hitting the high beams just to annoy the guy in front of you. All of which I, and I am sure many others, have unfortunately witnessed. These are the things that lead to incidents of road rage.

Please be considerate of others when you drive and ask yourselves when you are sitting in the left lane if you are doing it because it's honestly a safety issue, or just so you can be the guy who forced his will on someone else, because too many of these posts talk about punishing the driver behind them. That isn't your job, and it will only lead to accidents and dangerous situations.

Take care and be safe.

Originally posted by bobclevenger
And you're not supposed to drive faster than the speed limit either. Why is your infraction any better than mine? If we all did what we were supposed to do we wouldn't be having this discussion.

because bob, going 10 - 20 kph (ie, less than +25% of the speed limit) in conditions where it's endangering no one (no, not during driving torrential rain, or a blizzard, earthquake, or act of god) is not hurting traffic flow. it's also not a safety issue either, as the posted limits were for cars which were considerably less capable and safe than even the most affordable of todays autos.

not passing on the right hasn't lost any usefulness in the operation of a freeway, where the right lane is for driving, merging, and exiting the freeway. attempting to make passes through this lane can lead to accidents (as people seldom check for traffic coming up fast on them from the right... yes, i've had this happen to me many a time, from the ninny i had been flashing, then flashed again before i made the move), and if there are vehicles trying to merge, it can again wreak havoc with the traffic patterns.

leaving an open lane to the left alleviates all sorts of hiccups which can occur. as in that wave theory, all it takes is one schmuck (or as it is in most places, +60% of the traffic piling into the left lane) to slow the whole thing down, thus completely defeating its intention. there's nothing wrong with staying in the left lane to pass a lot of traffic, or even if there's no one behind you: it makes no difference. but when you hold up one person, who's then blocked by traffic in the right lane, and a line-up of 20 cars starts there are problems happening, ones that shouldn't be.

I can relate to this, from just yesterday's 38 mile rush hour drive home.

Originally posted by wakeech
... attempting to make passes through this lane can lead to accidents (as people seldom check for traffic coming up fast on them from the right... I was suprised, just after an exit and just before the lanes went down from 3 to 2, when I was behind a line of cars in the center lane, I started gliding over to the right lane (I wasn't intending to pass anyone, I was just avoiding debris being kicked-up). Just as my tires hit the line, I heard a horn. I looked over and there was a car on my r/r quarter! I have NO idea where it came from, but it must have been going real fast for me not to notice at all. I went back to the center lane & that car passed the line of cars I was behind. (Exeryone loves to be in that center lane, cuz it becomes the passing lane of the two lanes remaining, and there's a merge for another entrance ramp shortly up ahead.) That NEVER happens to me. I'm one of the most attentive drivers out there - I usually don't even have the stereo on, cuz I think that's a (minor) distraction too. Darn, I HATE when that happens!


...leaving an open lane to the left alleviates all sorts of hiccups which can occur. as in that wave theory, all it takes is one schmuck (or as it is in most places, +60% of the traffic piling into the left lane) to slow the whole thing down, thus completely defeating its intention. there's nothing wrong with staying in the left lane to pass a lot of traffic, or even if there's no one behind you: it makes no difference. but when you hold up one person, who's then blocked by traffic in the right lane, and a line-up of 20 cars starts there are problems happening, ones that shouldn't be. Again, after a congested exit, only two lanes - everybody that's not taking the exit is in the left lane. Only, after the exit, do you think anyone's gonna move out of the left lane? Well, I did, and for 1/2 mile or so, there was NOBODY in the right lane! :D Everybody was nose-to-tail in the left lane. It was kind of commical to me... all hovering about 65 mph, which is kind of slow. Usually, that's a 75 mph piece of road (even though the posted limit is 60).

1. Forget world peace, visualize your turn signals! My Grandmother was fond of remarking, "I guess turn signals were an option that model year."

2. Hang up and drive. The number of times some 90lb trophy wife on the phone in an excursion has nearly sideswiped me in Austin is beyond belief. Often these same trophy wives lack the necessary upper body strength to control which lane their "fiesta crusher" resides.

3. A minor brightening in the east some hour plus BEFORE sunrise is not an indication to turn your lights off.

4. I live out in the countryside on a nice twisty 2-lane road (legal speed is 70). Apparently, there is an unwritten rule around here to pull out in front and slowly accelerate so I have to brake. Once you've slowed me down, you stomp on the old gas and take off.

On the subject of "not pulling all the way up to trigger the lights" thread, Dayton Ohio (and surrounding communities) has a very, very, very nasty habit of putting the sensor for the left-turn signals about 3 car lenghts BACK from the line. I guess so as to not impede the traffic with folks wanting to turn left. I got in the habit there (and only there) of parking my truck over that sensor to trigger the light.

Originally posted by Q121825
On the subject of "not pulling all the way up to trigger the lights" thread, Dayton Ohio (and surrounding communities) has a very, very, very nasty habit of putting the sensor for the left-turn signals about 3 car lenghts BACK from the line. I guess so as to not impede the traffic with folks wanting to turn left. I got in the habit there (and only there) of parking my truck over that sensor to trigger the light. Oooh! :eek: And have you ever looked at those drivers at the front of the opposing lanes of traffic when you get to turn left in front of them? Don't! Cuz they're very mad at you. :p

Here in the DC area, there is so much bad driving going on, its hard to know where to start. We have plenty of "Fiesta Crushers", red light runners, even killer congressmen. One of the behaviours I personally find annoying are the folks who use entrance/exit lanes on the right as passing lanes to get ahead of as many cars as possible and then cut back into the main lanes. Those are the ones, IMHO, who have no sense and no regard for anyone other than themselves.

Originally posted by Racer X-8
Oooh! :eek: And have you ever looked at those drivers at the front of the opposing lanes of traffic when you get to turn left in front of them? Don't! Cuz they're very mad at you. :p

NEVER look them in the eyes. It encourages them :))

Dayton is the only place I have ever encountered this oddity. I've seen lots of areas where there are two sensors (one at the line, one some distance back) to control the length of the light. Of course, Dayton is also the place where roads change name every few blocks or so.

They're all over Columbia (just one sensor- some distance back from the line). They're to limit the left turn signal to at least 3 cars or more waiting to turn left. If it's just you, or you & one other car when the light turns green, sorry, no left turn signal. Ya gotta wait till the opposing traffic clears, or turn on yellow.

That's it...evidently I've coined one that caught on. I'm trademarking "Festiva-Crusher". Feel free to point out to anyone driving one what exactly it is they're driving. :)

Originally posted by wakeech
because bob, going 10 - 20 kph (ie, less than +25% of the speed limit) in conditions where it's endangering no one (no, not during driving torrential rain, or a blizzard, earthquake, or act of god) is not hurting traffic flow.No, what's hurting traffic flow is the stupid speed limit. it's also not a safety issue either, as the posted limits were for cars which were considerably less capable and safe than even the most affordable of todays autos. I agree with everything you say here -- but it's still against the law! Why not try to get the laws changed instead of just breaking any law you don't like? Personally, I prefer the old Nevada law which was "no speed limit other than whatever is safe and prudent."yes, i've had this happen to me many a time, from the ninny i had been flashing, then flashed again before i made the move), and if there are vehicles trying to merge, it can again wreak havoc with the traffic patterns. If it's not safe to pass, why not slow down to a legal speed? It's not a race, as others have pointed out.but when you hold up one person, who's then blocked by traffic in the right lane, and a line-up of 20 cars starts there are problems happening, ones that shouldn't be. Well, I'm not talking about urban or even suburban areas with on and off ramps every mile or so. I'm talking about a 100 mile or more stretch of two-lane highway in each direction. The right lane is usually occupied by big trucks (exceeding their speed limit by 18-20%) which are traveling at just under the speed limit for cars. It's also usually a rougher surface than the left lane. If Speed (the law doesn't apply to me) Racer wants to pass me, he can just wait until there is sufficient room in the right lane for one or the other of us. But I wish he would BACK OFF MY REAR BUMPER until there is room to pass. And stop flashing the damned high-beams! I won't speed up for him. I refuse to break the law just to allow someone else to do so. My right to use the road is no less than his (no more either).

BTW Wakeech, I think you are a good driver (sounds like you drive as I would if it were legal:) ) and I'm not arguing against you personally. It just seems that you and many others have little respect for tha law.

I hate those camera lights. i think they cause more accidents then prevent they prevent. people get nervous when approaching one and they tend to speed up or stop too early. i had those things flash right after i got to the other side and they've made me worried that i got a ticket but after a while nothing comes in the mail which leads me to the conclusion that it flashed for someone else. I also hate idiot drivers that can't stay in their own lanes on curvy streets. I had this one dumb person drive halfway into my lane on a curvy street and i was in his blind spot and i had to turn the wheel hard to the right and i scratched my rims on the curb cuz of that (fill in the blank).

Got a new one. How's about "intoxicated illegal aliens without driver's license or insurance"? One ran a red light last night and smashed into my wife's '01 Infiniti I30. Luckily, she saw him at the last instant and had a split second to jump on the brakes and yank the wheel, otherwise what is probably $12-15k of damage to the car would have been at least serious injuries to my spouse and who would have given a f*** about the car.

When I got to the scene I tried to climb in the moron's face but the cops and firemen restrained me.

Don't drink and drive, or let anyone else do it.

Originally posted by meeh
I'm wondering why motorcyles are allowed in the freeway... they are dangerous both to the rider and the ones that are watching out for them. I try not to get close to a motocycle when i'm the freeway cause simple bump would be deadly. Please don't flame me... i think motocyles looks fun and all, but simply too dangerous. But, to each his own.

I will not flame you but i will say this though: Motorcycles are legal, they are a fun way to move around and can be a safe way of transportation if you just (not you but the driver of the bike) accept that there are morons everywhere on the road and you need to treat EVERY car on the road like if it is driven by one. I was stopped at a red light with my motorcycle and was rear ended by a moron with a suspended license ! So please, don't try to restrict my rights and my liberty to drive a motorcycle for the good of the vertue.

Originally posted by co3
I hate those camera lights. i think they cause more accidents then prevent they prevent. people get nervous when approaching one and they tend to speed up or stop too early......

hi co3,
How about those troopers who sit on the side of a curvy road or just come up behind traffic? Have you seen how nervous people get and how they slam on their brakes in those situations?

I can relate to what you are saying about the camera lights ....... I got flashed by one during the summer.

I had taken my eyes momentarily off the approaching traffic light while looking at traffic in front of the car and when I looked back up, the light was yellow. I knew the intersection I was approaching was clear, did not know whether I was being tailgated, and decided to floor it. Well, I did not make it to the light before it turned red ...... and flash, flash, flash !!!! I thought oh, crap, am I going to get a ticket. Every day I checked the mail looking for that envelope .... and the second or third day after the incident I got my first camera ticket. As it's not considered to be a moving violation, is not supposed to be used to raise insurance rates, and I did run the light, I paid the $75 fine.

It took me a while to stop being nervous around that traffic light - which I still don't like to go through.

regards,
rx8cited

Poodles in the drivers lap!! Come on, am I really the only one who almost throws up when I see this!?

My pet p-thingie is when people cut across 2 lanes of traffic on a wide open road to drive 10 miles under the speed limit in front of you. This seems to happen to me alot in the 8, and even my female friend whom I let drive my car, says it never happens in her Accord. Might jsut be a Florida thing.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Poodles in the drivers lap!! Come on, am I really the only one who almost throws up when I see this!?
Actually, the wife and I took the new car for a drive yesterday; and while we were stopped at the light, a woman in her 50's behind us had what looked like a miniature Spitz in her lap with her. Instantly this thread came to mind. All I could think was, "Poodles!!! Poodles!!!" :D

I say Poodle, but spitz also qualifies. I can puke for that, too. Remember that guy who went to jail for grabbing some ladies poodle out of her lap when she was driving and throwing it into the street? Ok, so it was crappy for the dog but I sure could sympathize with the guy.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
I say Poodle, but spitz also qualifies. I can puke for that, too. Remember that guy who went to jail for grabbing some ladies poodle out of her lap when she was driving and throwing it into the street? Ok, so it was crappy for the dog but I sure could sympathize with the guy. Hey, it wasn't the dog's fault. The guy should have thrown the woman out of the car.;)

Originally posted by bobclevenger
Hey, it wasn't the dog's fault. The guy should have thrown the woman out of the car.;)
Amen to that...