I heard that several have tried them at the Tour and Pro. Any comments on from those that drove on them as to how they work, feel and or wear compared to the 285's or 295's most ran last year.

I just switched to a RX8 for this season and I am trying to figure what I should order for my first set on this car.

I heard that several have tried them at the Tour and Pro. Any comments on from those that drove on them as to how they work, feel and or wear compared to the 285's or 295's most ran last year.

I just switched to a RX8 for this season and I am trying to figure what I should order for my first set on this car.

Seems to be some wear issues, or at least the early adopters are still struggling to find the right air pressure. One of the cars at the pro had to flip tires sat for PM runs due to cording on the edge, those tires were also used at the SD tour. The other showed signs of strange edge wear, but no cords. :squint: They seem to be plenty fast, who knows if they are better than a 295/285/275/245. :dunno:

The SS GT3 seemed to work very well with them, and showed no signs of funny wear.

Interesting. I wonder what pressures they ran as well as their camber numbers were up front.

P.S. Jason, can you elaborate on "funny wear"?

Interesting. I wonder what pressures they ran as well as their camber numbers were up front.

P.S. Jason, can you elaborate on "funny wear"?

They seemed to be cupping right at the outside edge.

I believe El Toro can be a beotch on tires...particularly if you are trying to control sidewall profile and roll over with high pressures...don't ask me why I think this...:lol:

I wouldn't take the wear that Goeke/Bauer and Sipe/Thompson experienced as indicative of the "whole story".

I wouldn't take the wear that Goeke/Bauer and Sipe/Thompson experienced as indicative of the "whole story".

says the guy who corded a new set of Hoosier tires at the San Diego Tour two years ago :hahano:

says the guy who corded a new set of Hoosier tires at the San Diego Tour two years ago :hahano:

No, we got through the Tour ok, on the less than big time grip of the SD asphalt...it was the sandpaper surface at El Toro that did that set of tires in. As you mentioned (later), we just didn't have the pressures high enough. I believe, between 12 practice laps at the Tour (25 second course or so), 6 laps at the Tour, and 26 runs at the Pro, we got about 30 "real" runs out of that set, I'd guess...ouch. Of course, for stock class BMW drivers, that would be a huge uptick...

I've never had much wear at ET, even this particular issue is only on the front outer corners, otherwise there wasn't much wear in general

I think a few setup changes will correct it, but didn't want to make them mid-event

2 of mine corded after 21 runs. Half asphalt and half concrete.

Pressures were 42 front and 44 rear. And they were rotated after each event.

Something is wrong here.

SOLO

Did you run a different hoosier size previously - if so which? How much camber do you have up front? How badly are they corded? Can they be flipped?

I would ask Chris H., but those pressures sound high to me.

I have had Hoosiers last 15 runs before cording and 150 runs without cording. I know I have corded them because of overdriving. They have also corded quickly when they were run more than your typical 6 to 12 runs in a day.

THese comments apply to 285, 275, and 245's...so I am a bit off-topic.

I have not run the 255's yet, but your pressures sound like a good starting point based on where we run the the 285's cold PSI with max front camber. I would need some additional info to determine what the potential cause maybe:

- Is 42 psi your cold or hot pressure ?
- Camber settings ?
- Were the runs made in the normal Solo2 sequence with at least 5 minutes between runs or were some of them back to back without much cooling time (like a test & tune) ?
- Where did the cording take place, shoulder to tread cap junction or ?
- Were the corded tires on the same axle or same side of the car ?
- How many miles on the car ? Have you checked for excessive control arm bushing or wheel bearing play ?

If you have a photo of the cording or prefer to contact me direct you can e-mail me at Trent@TireRack.com.

Chris H

Chris thanks for jumping in here.

42 cold.

Camber is max front at -1.5 and -1.8 rear. S/A Koni's, usual BS setup.

Normal AX times between runs except for 4 runs on a test/tune course with about 3-4 minutes between runs. It was 42 degrees out and the tire temp's didn't even get warm to the touch.

Cord was on the outside edge.

Not on the same side of the car. And they were rotated front to rear between events. It was the rear's that corded when they went away.

Car is an '07 with 10,700 miles. It's like a new RX8, no issues anywhere.

I've run Hoosiers for 17+ years and never had them cord in 21 runs.

Previous car was a tire eating BSP EVO with 285's. I'd get 50+ runs on it and I never flipped the tires but should have.

No pictures because I was unhappy and just tossed them and bought 710's.

I still thinks something is wrong here.

SOLO

Not on the same side of the car. And they were rotated front to rear between events. It was the rear's that corded when they went away.
I realize you rotated them front-to-rear, but the rear's showed cords first? During the 21 runs, did you have any spins in the car?

You said earlier that you ran on concrete/asphalt 50/50. How gritty & abrasive was the concrete surface? Were there any sections on the concrete surface where the car went into long slides?

Ron Bauer and I experience the exact same thing as SOLO_RX8. In our case, San Diego NT, 3 runs each with no real drama in the driving and the tire wear was astownding. We quickly realized the drivers front tire was wearing quickly after we each had just 1 run, and upped our pressures from 40 to 46 in an attempt to help, which it seemed to do. After the first day we rotated the tires front to rear and with the course running the opposite direction, this put the troubled tire now on the predominately inside rear. At El toro, we corded a different tire on the same outside drivers front.

While the camber was only about -1.3, in the front, this seems very unaccepable for wear. We had the tires re mounted inside out, and then after the 2nd and 3rd round of the pro, the "new" outside edge is showing the same cuping wear that leads to the cording.

I have been doing this for 22 years. I am the king of getting more runs from a tire than anyone. Just ask anyone who runs with me :-). I've never had a set of tires wear like this set has.

IMHO, this size tire or this particular hoosier tire is a very poor match for the Rx8, or the this tire in general has a serious problem.

I have been doing this for 22 years. I am the king of getting more runs from a tire than anyone. Just ask anyone who runs with me :-)

:werd:

Good feedback Joe. While 1.3 degrees of front camber is on the low end, it shouldn't have such a major impact on tire wear on an A-arm car. So we can get the complete picture - what other A6 sizes have you run on your RX-8? How many runs were you able to get out of them before they were useless/corded?

Good feedback Joe. While 1.3 degrees of front camber is on the low end, it shouldn't have such a major impact on tire wear on an A-arm car. So we can get the complete picture - what other A6 sizes have you run on your RX-8? How many runs were you able to get out of them before they were useless/corded?

Joe was on 245 V710s before... Is edj still on the little 245 hoho? If so they seem to still be working very well for him.

Very strange...I'm able to get 90+ runs out of the 295 on an 8.5" rim and that's with a 3400lb car. I wonder if there's some construction issue with the early 255's? As I understand it (which is a stretch, 'cause I know dick all about manufacturing tires), the 255 is basically a 245 mold with some section width added...or something like that.

But, to be perfectly honest, the only thing I'm worried about is TeamRX8 deciding he's gonna have to hang on to the set of 295's he's promised me...:lol:

JK, I'm actually feeling the pain for those of you who threw down good money on the tires and then had them cord:icon_no2:

While 1.3 degrees of front camber is on the low end, it shouldn't have such a major impact on tire wear on an A-arm car. ?

:squint: :squint: :squint:

maybe not for certain people coasting through the course :cwm27: but for the top RX-8 runners on Hoosier A6s this means big trouble on the outside front tire corners, especially running the soft OE front bar regardless of endlink hole position

I plan to stay with this size though. I believe edj was on them too, but will let him confirm for himself...


.

or prefer to contact me direct you can e-mail me at Trent@TireRack.com.

Chris H


Did you guys have a melt down today? Couldn't get through by phone and even an email to that address bounced back. :dunno:

JK, I'm actually feeling the pain for those of you who threw down good money on the tires and then had them cord:icon_no2:
+1 and since, last I checked, I don't sh!t money, I'm starting to get some concerns about running the 255's. :icon_no2:

I'll see what Harvey's feedback is like once he tries them, but the 245 Hoho's are my other option at this point...as I'm not a sasquatch kinda guy! :lol:
maybe not for certain people coasting through the course :cwm27: but for the top RX-8 runners on Hoosier A6s this means big trouble on the outside front tire corners, especially running the soft OE front bar regardless of endlink hole position
Ha ha. I deserved that. Drove @ nats last year like I was at a rain event. :lol: My co-driver is plenty fast, and getting faster. I definitely feel better about my driving this season. :)

Did you guys have a melt down today? Couldn't get through by phone and even an email to that address bounced back. :dunno:
I ordered my Konis today with about 2min wait.

:squint: :squint: :squint:

I plan to stay with this size though. I believe edj was on them too, but will let him confirm for himself...


.

All three non-2009 rx8's at houston were on 255's (at least thats what the sidewalls said).

Did you guys have a melt down today? Couldn't get through by phone and even an email to that address bounced back. :dunno:

Yes - Phones and Internet went down at approximately 4pm EST. Not a good situation on a busy Monday or anytime for that matter. :banghead:

Sometime technology is NOT your friend :eek: All systems GO today...

Chris H

Chris thanks for jumping in here.

42 cold.

Camber is max front at -1.5 and -1.8 rear. S/A Koni's, usual BS setup.

Normal AX times between runs except for 4 runs on a test/tune course with about 3-4 minutes between runs. It was 42 degrees out and the tire temp's didn't even get warm to the touch.

Cord was on the outside edge.

Not on the same side of the car. And they were rotated front to rear between events. It was the rear's that corded when they went away.

Car is an '07 with 10,700 miles. It's like a new RX8, no issues anywhere.

I've run Hoosiers for 17+ years and never had them cord in 21 runs.

Previous car was a tire eating BSP EVO with 285's. I'd get 50+ runs on it and I never flipped the tires but should have.

No pictures because I was unhappy and just tossed them and bought 710's.

I still thinks something is wrong here.

SOLO


Thanks for the detailed feedback, we are passing all the info along to Hoosier and will be testing the 255's on my car as soon as the weather cooperates here in South Bend. It makes sense that more air pressure may be required because you have less volume to carry the same load than a 285 Hoosier.

If anyone has photos of the tire wear pattern, it would be a big help to see what you are experiencing.

Chris H
aka Trent@TireRack.com

I plan to stay with this size though. I believe edj was on them too, but will let him confirm for himself...
.

i'm running on the 255s. GeneralDefault was on older 285s

i'm getting the same wear on the outside corner after 10 runs. :mad:
flipping 10 run tires seems a little excessive to me...

i wonder if the BMW racers on 9-10" wheels are seeing the same problem?

Sipe & Eric please post pics of your shoulder wear (as well as anyone else who's tried these tires).

Eric, when you ran the 245 Hoosiers, how was the wear on the shoulder? What were your cold pressures for the 245's vs the cold pressures you used this past wekeend on the 255's?

i'll see if i can get a picture up soon.

i had no shoulder wear issue with the 245 tires.
tire pressures on the 255 are 5+ psi higher than 245s.

i'll see if i can get a picture up soon.

i had no shoulder wear issue with the 245 tires.
tire pressures on the 255 are 5+ psi higher than 245s.
Thanks Eric.

I know you've been on the 245 A6's for years. Wear issues aside, after your first national event on the 255's, what are your thoughts?

Way out of left field, but to consider a variable:

Did any of these tires ship in freezing weather?

Way out of left field, but to consider a variable:

Did any of these tires ship in freezing weather?

I seriously doubt this is a seasonal issue - or we would likely be seeing it with other sizes as well. I would guess this is unwanted side effect from from widening an existing tire/mold. I recall similar reports when the 275/15 first rolled out.

Wear issues aside, after your first national event on the 255's, what are your thoughts?

not a whole lot of difference between them but then i'm kinda slow so i'm
probably not getting the full benefit out of either one... :wavey:

i saw a few extra .01 G's with the 255 vs 245 but within the noise.
steering response is about the same

as long as Hoosier keeps sending me free tires, i'll probably stick with the 255s.
you guys can help with that by letting me win, starting with the Lincoln Pro... :rolleyes:
11 entered in BS so far out of 108 entries.

Yes - Phones and Internet went down at approximately 4pm EST. Not a good situation on a busy Monday or anytime for that matter. :banghead:

Sometime technology is NOT your friend :eek: All systems GO today...

Chris H

Apparently not, same issue today, stopped by the NV warehouse and they confirmed the meltdown.

Problem is I need to place a will-call pickup and it can only be done through SB on the phone, not locally or online. Somebody may want to rethink that strategy. :icon_no2:

MS

My tires weren't scrubbing past the expected treadface/sidewall corner location, so I'm not sure the pressure alone is the issue.

Mark -

We are back up. Sorry for your trouble.

One internet provider has been scratched from our X-mas card list.

Chris

here is a picture of the corner wear i'm getting with the 255 tires.
after looking at it closer there isn't a great deal of wear but it is unusual.
is this what everybody else is seeing?

http://outserv.cactus.org/~edj/rx8/255wear.jpg

GGP does a cheese grater job on tires which is why the tire looks so bad... :(

Eric -

Thanks for the photo. Low 40's for pressure (hot) ? How many runs on the front ?

Chris

PS - See you in Lincoln...can't wait to get our season started.

Well, as someone who has landed jet aircraft on the runways of [the former] MCAS El Toro, I can tell you that the paving is more aggressive and harder than typical highway materials. As you would expect, it is optimized for traction and impact (Carrier style landings) as well as consistent longitudinal level.

I believe El Toro can be a beotch on tires...particularly if you are trying to control sidewall profile and roll over with high pressures...don't ask me why I think this...:lol:

I wouldn't take the wear that Goeke/Bauer and Sipe/Thompson experienced as indicative of the "whole story".

Eric -

Thanks for the photo. Low 40's for pressure (hot) ? How many runs on the front ?

Chris

PS - See you in Lincoln...can't wait to get our season started.

low 40's hot: check
runs: 10

hope you guys are really rusty after your winter layoff! :spank:

low 40's hot: check
runs: 10

hope you guys are really rusty after your winter layoff! :spank:

Thanks for the info, best suggestion at this point is to keep bumping the pressure up on aggressive surfaces, if we get any additional info from Hoosier or our testing we will pass it along.

Lincoln - Hopefully, we will be ready to rock by then... :DJsmile:

But the Blizzak's did just come off the car a couple of weeks ago...

Chris H

This is similar to what we saw on our 255 fronts. Notice the slight cupping effect on the outside edge. This is where it wears funny and will cord in about 20 runs. I'll try to get a picture of my corded tire. There are in the RV in storage right now.

When the tire corded was it the edge or was it more of the Grove of Doom of BFG fame?

That edge wear looks like it is the side ply rather than the tire surface... Maybe those need some old school A3S03 pressures, high 40s+.

From Eric's photo and Joe's description, it looks like the shoulder to tread cap junction area is the high wear point. It appears to be similar to wear patterns I have seen on DS BMW's, GS/HS Mini's etc, but I agree, it's not what you normally expect to see on RX-8's with max front camber and only 10 runs. For this abrasive of a surface, I would recommend adding 5-6 more PSI and rotate tires front to back every 6 runs. You may be able to adjust the pressure back down on lower grip/less abrasive surfaces.

Chris

Based on the side view photo Eric sent me he's already running his air pressure on the high side for that surface ...

For this abrasive of a surface, I would recommend running Kumho V710's, rather than adding 5-6 more PSI, rotating tires front to back every 6 runs and ending up all pissed off with corded tires. Mike

There, fixed it.



sorry, Chris, I just couldn't resist...seriously, though, the wear being seen wouldn't be acceptable, to me. I'd just stick with the 295.

I've never had much wear at ET, even this particular issue is only on the front outer corners, otherwise there wasn't much wear in general

I think a few setup changes will correct it, but didn't want to make them mid-event


Had a discussion with Hoosier today on the subject. More feedback to follow pending the wear seen at the next event with said changes.

MS

Had a discussion with Hoosier today on the subject. More feedback to follow pending the wear seen at the next event with said changes.

MS

I had a long talk with them as well. Hoosier is paying attention to this issue and is working it.

Here are som pictures of the corded tires:
http://www.hedlygoeke.com/racing/cording001.jpg
http://www.hedlygoeke.com/racing/cording002.jpg
http://www.hedlygoeke.com/racing/cording003.jpg
http://www.hedlygoeke.com/racing/cording004.jpg

^ How many runs were on these tires Joe?

Took a close look at mine today. We were close to cording the pair that were on the front for Saturday at El Toro; 24 total runs in the low - mid 40 second range. We swapped them to the rear on Sunday; 12 more runs. I'll be having them flipped soon.

It's odd that the outer front corners are shaving off at a 45 deg angle. The rest of the tire isn't worn much. I've never seen this before, ran other size Hoosier A6s all last year without issue.

^ How many runs were on these tires Joe?

As stated before, 20 runs on the corded side, then flipped and now a total of 36 with 24 of these being 40 odd second pro runs.

Chris, Joe or anyone.

Any word from Hoosier yet?

SOLO

they're waiting on more feedback

I need to know what is up with these skins.
We are running them on our BS errr DS car.
FM

I'm running an event tomorrow, flipped all the tires, will let you know how they look after

I'm running an event tomorrow, flipped all the tires, will let you know how they look after

Expect runs in the 60 second range, probably 4 per entry and the opportunity for fun runs...the 'stick doesn't draw as many entries as Oakland.

(now that I've said that, there'll be 300 entries, we'll only get 3 runs and finish at 7 PM...:lol:)

Who should I call at Hoosier to discuss this issue? The R's in the same size we had seem to be totally ok but the A's....
FM

Harvey has been in touch with Hooiser. Perhaps he could give you a contact name or relay your info onto them?

Tim Gilvin & Jeff Speer, Hoosier Racing Tire: Phone 1-574-784-3152

TGilvin@Hoosiertire.com

For anyone who has been in contact with hoosier, any update regarding the 255 tire wear issue?

+1, what he said, any updates?

Time to buy Hoosiers (again). 285's unless something's been fixed on the 255's.

SOLO

My email's with Hoosier say that nothing is going to change with the tire.
They regret that not all cars will get good wear with the product.
We were at near 50psi for pressure and are now going into the 50's.
That is on a Cobalt though.
FM

That's too bad, the 255's were the perfect size for our cars.

Guess it's back to 285's and unhappy tire installers.

SOLO

The 285, or 295 for that matter, is a piece of cake to get on the 8" rim...the Kumho, on the other hand...:banghead:

My email's with Hoosier say that nothing is going to change with the tire.
They regret that not all cars will get good wear with the product.
We were at near 50psi for pressure and are now going into the 50's.
That is on a Cobalt though.
FM
Thanks for posting this Mike. Makes the decision on A6 size choice that much easier.

-Chike

hmm, thought I had posted the info previously

ran low-mid 50s on asphalt and they still rolled over too much, ran high 50s at the Wendover Pro concrete, the problem was not occurring as fast, but it was still going to happen, front grip was fine at that pressure until going over the limit and then the tire was not quick to recover

I won't buy another set of 255s, the 285 Hoosiers mount up pretty easy on 8" wheels, much easier than 245 V710 Kumhos

Can those who have had issues with the 255 A6's post up the manufacturing date from their tires?

Keith Scala will be adding some interesting info to this thread on the 255's he's running on his moton equipped '09 RX-8 sport with only ~-1.3 degrees of front camber.

-Chike

Chike -

I don't have the first production run 255's A6's close by to give you an exact date, but they would have 4th quarter 2008 dates.

The 255's John and I tested for this months Grassroots Motorsports article (August 09) were also from this batch. As mentioned earlier in this thread, Hoosier has not planned any immediate changes to the tire.

Although the tire wear appears to be accelerated at the shoulder ply/ tread cap junction point, we (and others-EDJ!) have found the 255's to be very competitive on the clock. On surfaces that are known for high wear rates or drivers who tend to drive through an understeer condition, I would recommend the 285's on the front. The 255 wear rate seems to be much less of an issue on less aggressive surfaces like the Finger Lakes asphalt or our asphalt test track.

John and I have continued to experiment with 285F/255R combo. It has some pluses and minus depending on the course design, but it is another viable option to try.

See you in Toledo -

Chris H

Chris,

Keith had a set at the Finger Lakes NT which had a build date of the 11th week of 2009 which had ~17-18 runs on them by the end of the weekend, which showed no unusual wear whatsoever. What's remarkable is that he runs only 34psi in the front on a car with only ~-1.3 degrees of front camber.

On the Fedex asphalt, one of my local competitors bought a set of 255's earlier this year (has had them for a few months now) and his tires are showing the much described groove of doom forming along the outside edge. He runs -2 degrees of front camber and runs pressures in the mid 40's.

I'm wondering if Hoosier quietly fixed this issue or if there was an issue in the production of the 1st batch of tires.

P.S. Won't make Toledo this year. The DC Pro will be my last national event both Nats. See you in Lincoln!

Here are photos of a front A6 255/35-18 with 17 runs
Photo 1 the shoulder and roll over
Photo 2 All the extra rubber I picked up at the tour
Photo 3 build date

Here are photos of a rear. I used 34 psi in front and 32 psi in rear
Photo 1. less rubber pickup
Photo 2. less rollover
Photo 3. a fun photo
Photo 4. see how the tires sit on a 8" rim, you judge

Can those who have had issues with the 255 A6's post up the manufacturing date from their tires?


my 255's have a build date of 0609.
i corded the outside edge after 12 NT runs and 16 PS runs on concrete.

if they did fix the tires it was after mine were built... :(

I ran mine with a big front bar and regular pressures this past weekend and the problem seemed to go away, the corners rounded off smooth like normal

IMO the OE or softer bars are allowing too much body roll, think I may have PAXd #1 (not that this means squat :icon_bs: :rolleyes: :evil_laug )

if they did fix the tires it was after mine were built...

I talked to Hoosier today and they have not made any changes to the 255/35-18s since introduced and are not planning on making any changes in the near future. I believe the A6s have much softer rubber than the Kumho 710s and if you run the A6s on an abrasive surface it will cord the edge. Negative camber can help the situation.

yes, no changes, but IMO your front tire pic is showing the wear issue some

yes, no changes, but IMO your front tire pic is showing the wear issue some

I dont know how the tires will be after 50 runs the tires in the photos only have 17 runs on them