ive searched and so far the max RPM I have found anyone go to on here is 9500RPM.
reason asking is my brothers old civic type-r with Spoon valvetrain/forged internals made it to 11500RPM (still making power) all day long before he sold it. With that being said I hear our motors are "smoother" and this makes me think higher is easier.

Is it possible for our motors to go to a higher RPM than 9500rpm?

If anyone has done it, how high did they go and what were the repercussions of long time exposure to high RPM?

Also how was this higher RPM obtained?



if there is already a thread with this answered please point me in the right direction as to searching at 3am isnt too conducive to my thought process.

10k RPM

Yes you can shift pas that but you have to have a tune on it like the Cobb AP or InterX. They will let you remove the rev limiter on the AT and MT.
Yes rev that bitch and enjoy it. The car was made to do it. Get hot burn and pass carb build up.
-Gil

its called apex seal chatter. overrevving on a stock port with stock seals is not a good idea. the engine isnt making more than peak horsepower over redline anyways. this chattering will not only ruin the apex seals, but they can quickly score the housings. the omp cannot keep up with the overrevving and thus due to the lack of lubrication at higher than specified engine speeds, abnormal wear and chatter marks can occur. a properly prepped rotary, renesis and 12A/13B alike will happily rev beyond 10Krpm when properly ported and equipped with the proper apex seal/side spring/ hardened stationary gearset/ premix combo. the engine will make peak power in that rpm range. bottom line, the rev limiter is there for a reason.

Thanks for that. I would like for other that have been running ther 8 with out a rev limiter to talk about their experience with this on and off the track. Good info.

I don't understand why you are comparing a heavily modified Honda engine to a basically stock Renesis.

Pointless.... Not to mention increased wear rate.

I read somewhere that the engine could go right up to 13k...but at that point "harmonic distortion" would destroy the engine. Good point about the wear. I would definitely think about potential cost vs. benefit on this one.

I dropped my car into 2nd gear at over 100mph once ( and it was buttery smooth too ). Tach goes right past 10K almost to the digital display. Never had a issue with the car, and I did that when it was newer. It's been 3 years since then.

Keep in mind the rotary internals operate at 1/3 rpm. so while the driveshaft might be doing 10K, the rotors are only turning at 3k IIRC.

I don't understand why you are comparing a heavily modified Honda engine to a basically stock Renesis.

same reason people compare modded econo-cars to stock sports... Ego. They want to be able to say, "See!!!! I put $X,000s of dollars and made it better than you sports car! HA!!!! ME > You"

what they fail to realize is the "i put $X,000s" to make their eco-car better than a sports car.

I've seen video footage of a HYUNDAI ACCENT beating a Z06 in a drag race. does that mean that shitbox on wheels is better than the vette? nope. just means some numb-nut spent an excessive amount of money on a shitbox on wheels.

Think of it like this: You can gold plate dogshit. but at the end of the day, it's still dog shit.

the renesis is balanced to 13,000 rpm.

but:
1. the tranny cant take that. do you want a flywheel bouncing out of the bellhousing and potentially sawing off your legs?
2. the engine cant get enough air in at those rpms and power will really drop off.

so its pointless.

its called apex seal chatter. overrevving on a stock port with stock seals is not a good idea. the engine isnt making more than peak horsepower over redline anyways. this chattering will not only ruin the apex seals, but they can quickly score the housings. the omp cannot keep up with the overrevving and thus due to the lack of lubrication at higher than specified engine speeds, abnormal wear and chatter marks can occur. a properly prepped rotary, renesis and 12A/13B alike will happily rev beyond 10Krpm when properly ported and equipped with the proper apex seal/side spring/ hardened stationary gearset/ premix combo. the engine will make peak power in that rpm range. bottom line, the rev limiter is there for a reason.

Got a few things to add to this:
Balance the rotating assembly as one and remove as much weight as you can. Think about snap rings.
Might need to underdrive the water pump.

the renesis is balanced to 13,000 rpm.

I don't think I'd trust the Renesis to 13K as is out of the box.

This is stupid. Power starts dropping off before redline, there is absolutely no reason to want to rev higher unless you have made modifications that move the power band into a higher RPM range. Just wanting to rev a stock Renesis over the rev limiter is stupid and pointless.

Who gives a damn what some highly modified short-stroke Honda engine can rev to? That has nothing to do with the Renesis, apples vs. oranges.

I don't think I'd trust the Renesis to 13K as is out of the box.

why? carbon buildup is not an issue at 13k rpm. :lol:

and ty marklar for reinforcing whats really important about this.

This is stupid. Power starts dropping off before redline, there is absolutely no reason to want to rev higher unless you have made modifications that move the power band into a higher RPM range. Just wanting to rev a stock Renesis over the rev limiter is stupid and pointless.



yes stock if you only remove the limiter. as those who have had the RB flash know there is more power to be had lifting the limit if you tune it properly.

this thread brings to mind the below video, anyone want to duplicate this with a Renesis??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO3lSTO8uWg

That video SUCKS... I don't know anything yet... but I'm pretty positive it was only the overheating that killed it... not the sustained RPMs... I wonder how long it COULD last... with a motor that's running well...

wouldn't sustained high rpm cause the overheating....? I dont think that would be a matter of an engine that is running well but a properly sized cooling system

this thread brings to mind the below video, anyone want to duplicate this with a Renesis??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO3lSTO8uWg

i know right :D: thought the same thing

That video SUCKS... I don't know anything yet... but I'm pretty positive it was only the overheating that killed it... not the sustained RPMs... I wonder how long it COULD last... with a motor that's running well...

it was because they had drained the oil

OP's brother reminded me of a chance encounter with a young chap and his baby blue Honda Civic. He told me he put int $60k in the car and showed me a bunch of plastic trophies. I then asked, for that kinda money why not get an M3 or something nicer? I guess he realised that I wasn't impressed at all with his Honda Civics and plastic trophies.

Yeah, It's like walking upto an Audi R8 owner and saying.

Yo, I got a 20B dropped in my RX-8, and all carbon fiber body, I'd SMOKE you in a race!

He could give less of a damn.

that video was hilarious. The one guy saying "I feel like a fireman" made me laugh. lol no shit the exhaust manifold and piping was glowing. good grief. But did the engine fail from sustained RPM or overheating (which i realize is caused by sustained rpm but not quite the same thing).

regardless, that definitely shows the potential the engine has for durability.

*note: i said potential. this does not however apply to all instances... as it's simply that, potential.

I missed the part zoom pointed out, with the oil being drained... that was probably what caused most of the overheating there

why do rotaries fail? carbon buildup.

you think carbon buildup is a problem doing 9k rpm @ WOT?

why do rotaries fail? carbon buildup.

you think carbon buildup is a problem doing 9k rpm @ WOT?

Yeah, I think the only issue you could see then is overheating from poor cooling or bad oil/oil circulation

Am I the only one that shed a tear watching that video? That was just wrong :icon_no2:... Back on subject though, if you want high revving, get a motorcycle 15k redline:icon_tup:

wow, didnt expect that many responses, this question stemmed from losing my job to "streamlining" and finding a higher paying one with more disposable income.

I was comparing it to my brothers $3000 built b16 (which is cheap for building a motor) used in autocross just because i love the response and sound. i am a formula one fan (watching it as i type) so high revs are what i like, hence buying the 8.

I also asked what would be needed to be able to perform this and from the answers I have read, a much stronger apex seal is needed along with side seals. and also gears. oil metering isnt really an issue if you add in 2 more to kick in past 8500. and probably lightweight rotors.

I know of several manufaturers of flywheels that are capable of high revs and there are a couple clutches as well.

so from what i can gather im looking at about $10000 to get this thing to 12k rpm?
which I think this is going to make me lean toward an s2000 :( since I know how to get a honda up there already.

oh and just to clarify I do know that there are ancillary and supportive systems upgrades needed as well, i was just wondering the needed mechanical hardware

14,000

wow, didnt expect that many responses, this question stemmed from losing my job to "streamlining" and finding a higher paying one with more disposable income.

I was comparing it to my brothers $3000 built b16 (which is cheap for building a motor) used in autocross just because i love the response and sound. i am a formula one fan (watching it as i type) so high revs are what i like, hence buying the 8.

I also asked what would be needed to be able to perform this and from the answers I have read, a much stronger apex seal is needed along with side seals. and also gears. oil metering isnt really an issue if you add in 2 more to kick in past 8500. and probably lightweight rotors.

I know of several manufaturers of flywheels that are capable of high revs and there are a couple clutches as well.

so from what i can gather im looking at about $10000 to get this thing to 12k rpm?
which I think this is going to make me lean toward an s2000 :( since I know how to get a honda up there already.

oh and just to clarify I do know that there are ancillary and supportive systems upgrades needed as well, i was just wondering the needed mechanical hardware

this is the serious answer.

call mazmart. talk to paul. tell him what you want. then, ask for the guy in the back room..

he is sharp..

apples and oranges.

simple.

beers :beer:

Damn, I wish the s5 in that video shouldve blown up. Look at that fire underneath the car :)

wow, didnt expect that many responses, this question stemmed from losing my job to "streamlining" and finding a higher paying one with more disposable income.

I was comparing it to my brothers $3000 built b16 (which is cheap for building a motor) used in autocross just because i love the response and sound. i am a formula one fan (watching it as i type) so high revs are what i like, hence buying the 8.

I also asked what would be needed to be able to perform this and from the answers I have read, a much stronger apex seal is needed along with side seals. and also gears. oil metering isnt really an issue if you add in 2 more to kick in past 8500. and probably lightweight rotors.

I know of several manufaturers of flywheels that are capable of high revs and there are a couple clutches as well.

so from what i can gather im looking at about $10000 to get this thing to 12k rpm?
which I think this is going to make me lean toward an s2000 :( since I know how to get a honda up there already.

oh and just to clarify I do know that there are ancillary and supportive systems upgrades needed as well, i was just wondering the needed mechanical hardware


I think it's going to cost a whole lot more than $10,000 to do that. What are you going to do about the transmission? And what are you going to do to produce power at 12k RPMs?

Are you really willing to spend that much money and likely burn up your car all for the sound? Why not just go turbo and get an aftermarket exhaust? That would be a good way to spend that money, IMHO.

High RPM doesn't create power. You could rig up a Buick to rev to 15,000 RPM. Doesn't mean anything. It'll just stay in gear longer and lose more and more power as it drops further away from its VE. Its the ability to flow sufficient air at those RPM that creates power.

this is the serious answer.

call mazmart. talk to paul. tell him what you want. then, ask for the guy in the back room..

he is sharp..

apples and oranges.

simple.

beers :beer:

thank you, I appreciate the answer will do.



and yes, if worked out "properly" higher RPMs will grant more power, or a broader power band, and at the least more time in a lower gear to do more work.

and there are videos all over of cars both with same peak power, one turbo and 8000rpm redline, and an all motor with 12000rpm redline, and the higher end all motor will always beat them, not to mention the throttle response you get from NA cant be beat by forced induction. and I know it will cost, im single un married so what else will the disposible income go to?


once again, thank you for the input.

and yes, if worked out "properly" higher RPMs will grant more power, or a broader power band, and at the least more time in a lower gear to do more work.


That's not true. Even if you manage to move the power band to where it peaks at 12k, you won't necessarily have a wider power band or more peak power. Having more time in a lower gear means jack squat when you're getting less power in that lower gear.

Higher RPMs != more power.


and there are videos all over of cars both with same peak power, one turbo and 8000rpm redline, and an all motor with 12000rpm redline, and the higher end all motor will always beat them.

If that's what you're basing your decision on, then you need to do more research. A higher redline might enable that car to avoid a shift that the other car might have to make in the 1/4 mile. That means very little.

not to mention the throttle response you get from NA cant be beat by forced induction. and I know it will cost, im single un married so what else will the disposible income go to?

then drop a N/A 20b in the car and you wont have to worry about moving your readline up to gain a little power

Rotaman from down this way set his rev limiter to 10500 rpm - I told him he was nuts .
Anyway , i've been with him when he revs it out to just under 10,000 . I gotta say it seems to handle it no problem and there still seems to be plenty of power there . He does have intake and freeflow exhaust which I think would be mandatory if you are going to do this .

i wanna see a dyno.

I am starting to believe people on here are the most closed minded I have ever run against who think they know everything. Ive been doing sanctioned racing for almost 10 years now. oh well.
Not many asshats but I'm sure they still believe the world is flat. RX8 owners are SO different than RX7 owners.

So I have done the research, and found that our cars even with increased flow and tuning are useless. forced induction is the only usefull way to get power. NA builds peak out at ~260hp....this is all unless i wanna spend 20 grand....

with this being said, car is being posted for sale locally. Im going back to other makes, where I can spend 5g and end up with 400hp and a lightweight chassis HIGH revving NA build.

Just build a 3-rotor :squint:

I am starting to believe people on here are the most closed minded I have ever run against who think they know everything. Ive been doing sanctioned racing for almost 10 years now. oh well.
Not many asshats but I'm sure they still believe the world is flat. RX8 owners are SO different than RX7 owners.

So I have done the research, and found that our cars even with increased flow and tuning are useless. forced induction is the only usefull way to get power. NA builds peak out at ~260hp....this is all unless i wanna spend 20 grand....

with this being said, car is being posted for sale locally. Im going back to other makes, where I can spend 5g and end up with 400hp and a lightweight chassis HIGH revving NA build.

I believe you may be mistaken. I'd like to know what car you plan on building. We aren't closed minded, we're realistic.

I am starting to believe people on here are the most closed minded I have ever run against who think they know everything. Ive been doing sanctioned racing for almost 10 years now. oh well.
Not many asshats but I'm sure they still believe the world is flat. RX8 owners are SO different than RX7 owners.

So I have done the research, and found that our cars even with increased flow and tuning are useless. forced induction is the only usefull way to get power. NA builds peak out at ~260hp....this is all unless i wanna spend 20 grand....

with this being said, car is being posted for sale locally. Im going back to other makes, where I can spend 5g and end up with 400hp and a lightweight chassis HIGH revving NA build.

yep,

most of us know that. so you did the research after you got the car..

seems with doing sanctioned racing for ten years you would know better..

beer :beer:

That video was disgusting... what a buncha hicks

I am starting to believe people on here are the most closed minded I have ever run against who think they know everything.

So I have done the research, and found that our cars even with increased flow and tuning are useless. forced induction is the only usefull way to get power. NA builds peak out at ~260hp....this is all unless i wanna spend 20 grand....

with this being said, car is being posted for sale locally. Im going back to other makes, where I can spend 5g and end up with 400hp and a lightweight chassis HIGH revving NA build.

Wow, just saw this post and I'm surprised more at the resistance from yourself, notorque, than I am from everyone else. No offense to you, but the strive for N/A power has been something people have been making since the day the RX8 has hit the market. While I'm not ruling out any new technology developments that might change things, for the most part everything that can be tried HAS been tried.

We have people who have decades of rotary experience here on this board. I'm inclinded to think the RX7 people are more open minded because their understanding of the RENESIS is next to nothing. I, myself, find it a little arrogant that people come onto this board thinking they are going to stumble onto some simple solution to make the RX8 make serious N/A power that we have not already tried or thought about.

It's not that we're closed minded, it's just that we have thought about all the issues and steps you have proposed.

The issue with power generation with the high RPM's of the rotary is a reduction of the volumetric efficiency of the motor. As the motor spins faster, the time for combustion decreases and the amount of air that can get pulled into the motor reduces.

Beyond that, the overall balance of the motor isn't strong enough to handle rotations beyond 10,000 RPM's. Off the top of my head I cannot remember the specific parts that are effected.

As it was mentioned prior, the two things that are needed would be a balanced motor capable of 10,000+ RPM's and larger ports to increase the amount of airflow.

Porting the RENESIS is not impossible, but the overall impact is small because the ports are close to water jackets so extreme porting isn't an option.

Yes, forced induction is the best way to get increased power from the motor without any other major engine modifications and probably the best bang for your buck.

So I have done the research, and found that our cars even with increased flow and tuning are useless. forced induction is the only usefull way to get power. NA builds peak out at ~260hp....this is all unless i wanna spend 20 grand....

Useless is a pretty strong term. My useless car has easily shown up other vehicles twice the value so that claim is pretty baseless.

It's clear you didn't do enough research as your findings are anything but conclusive and it wouldn't take $20,000 to reach your power goals.

with this being said, car is being posted for sale locally. Im going back to other makes, where I can spend 5g and end up with 400hp and a lightweight chassis HIGH revving NA build.

So long!

with this being said, car is being posted for sale locally. Im going back to other makes, where I can spend 5g and end up with 400hp and a lightweight chassis HIGH revving NA build.

but how will we cope without your open mind to help us ????? :lol2:

I thought people researched cars BEFORE they bought them? I guess that was a dying fad.

Ok, so I can assume that the quick little burst to the redline limiter I did last week when I wasnt paying attention to the tach didnt really hurt anything?
I was kinda worried...
:uhh:
Mike

Ok, so I can assume that the quick little burst to the redline limiter I did last week when I wasnt paying attention to the tach didnt really hurt anything?
I was kinda worried...
:uhh:
Mike

should be fine. I would try not to push the car past the limiter like that too much, but a couple times shouldn't hurt too much.

Should be alright, our motor's been to 9500 a fair few times and is still healthy, although it is entirely on pre-mix, no OMP.

RX8 owners are SO different than RX7 owners. So I have done the research, and found that our cars even with increased flow and tuning are useless. forced induction is the only usefull way to get power. NA builds peak out at ~260hp....this is all unless i wanna spend 20 grand....

well sir, i own many RX-7's and i also own an RX-8. i'm no different than now than a year ago when i didn't have an 8. and as far as the RX-8 being useless, that is a crummy statement. th eRX-8 is a splendid car out of the box. the technology is superb as are the performance peramiters of the vehicle and of its engine. remember, we're dealing with 1.3 litres/80 cubic inches here, not some 454 big block. the renesis msp is different from the "standard" 13B and of course building the engine in the same manner as the older 12A/13B's is different with different power results. forced induction is a great way to make power and a great way to detonate an improperly tuned rotary. i own one of each: a 12A powered 80 Leather Sport, 85 GS with a 13B from a GSL-SE, an 88 10th Anniversary with a 13B which is turbocharged, and an RX-8 with the Renesis MSP. i quite like them all but find the RX-8 the most plesent to drive hard.

That's 10 mins of my life I'll never get back. Stupid, stupid, stupid. :icon_no2:

really you sat there for 10 minutes? I skipped through, im not wasting time like that. Also to the OP if your mindset is that way you and your car are probably better off without each other, let the next person who gets the car enjoy it in the ways you couldnt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO3lSTO8uWg

This video will explain all about rotary engines.

Better off without each other? Yes, these cars are so lack luster, even boosted. And when they are boosted the exhaust ports are crap and you have to worry about scavenging heat. Not to mention the car weighs so much that doesn’t help when you only have 211whp.

Don’t get me wrong it handles phenomenally; I have made sure of that. But when you’re at a large track, and in a high speed sweeper (~100) on that exit you get passed. People will say horsepower is crap, torque is crap then why are a lot of cars coming out now with 300+hp. you can’t just have one part of the equation and not the other. Sports cars have handling AND power.

I ask one question about the limits of the housing and the engine and I get a bunch of smart ass, I KNOW IT ALL answers, when truth be told most people on here don’t even know how to change their damn clutch....I have only met two other RX8 owners and I just sat there and listened to them make complete ass' out of themselves in front of everyone only to get smashed on in the solo comp.

on the last note, yes I know how a rotary works, I'M A DAMN ENGINEER. I did my research and it is a VERY simple engine. I was just asking for people who have done it. not people who think they know, or know bubbas brother who revs to 13g.

last time I sign into this smartass site, worst forum I have ever been on. BMW isnt even this bad, and they have assholes.

Not trying to be an ass (although Im guessing that's how I will come across to you), but you might want to be a little more specific in your first question next time. You never mentioned the housing or specifically asking for people who have built a motor personally like that.

Personally I think you got some decent answers, but what do I know