Anyone use this new "nitrogen enriched" fuel from Shell yet? Been filling up with v-power 93 octane for years but i'm a little worry about this nitrogen enriched stuff just dont know much about it and its effects (if any) on a rotary engine.

I'll echo all you said. Anybody?

I noticed this as well when I filled up last week. Don't know anything about it.
marketing gimmick? who knows

I saw a commercial about it on TV. They showed it removing carbon deposits from the valves of a piston engine. If it removes carbon, I can't imagine that it would be bad for a rotary.

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/passionate_experts/dir_passionate_experts.html

so who is the first one to use it for a month and get back to us. LOL

WTF?

I googled this in disbelief.

Nitrogen is an inert gas, so it adds nothing in terms of power to the engine. Also, whatever space it takes up in the gasoline means that you are paying for.... NOTHING. I can't see nitrogen being good for anything other than tires.

Also, emissions tests around here measure NOx 's (and say they cause respiratory disease in children*). Wouldn't adding more nitrogen make this problem worse?

This is a marketing coup if they pull it off. ShamWOW!

All imho... I ain't no organic chemist. :)

Could someone with more knowledge please 'splain?






*http://www.aircare.ca/repinfo-glossary.php#nox

Let me google that for you...:)

http://petrochemical-plants.blogspot.com/2009/03/nitrogen-enriched-gasoline-by-shell.html

A few blogs basically say, based on Shell's marketing material, that the nitrogen enriched cleaning agents hold up better in higher temp environments such as DI and higher temp combustion chambers. It's supposed to be more effective. Who knows, maybe it will help with our carbon build up issues? :dunno:

Haven't seen anything except the marketing material though.

I think Stealth TL works for Shell (not the fuels group). PM him and see what he knows or can dig up.

I'll shoot a PM to Stealth now, dont' everybody go spamming his inbox. :rofl:

I used some the other day. Good news is my car didn't blow up. Bad news is I didn't notice any difference at all.

Works for me, thanks Jedi54

That bad news might be the good news


I used some the other day. Good news is my car didn't blow up. Bad news is I didn't notice any difference at all.

I'll shoot a PM to Stealth now, dont' everybody go spamming his inbox. :rofl:
Thats what friends are for. :lol2:

I think Stealth TL works for Shell (not the fuels group). PM him and see what he knows or can dig up.

You mean "her".............I think. Anyway, I can't always be right....and sometimes I am not!

I'll shoot a PM to Stealth now, dont' everybody go spamming his inbox. :rofl:

Don't forget........he is a Sheila! :)

You mean "her".
Women aren't named Ray.

Women aren't named Ray.

Sure they are,, Rae Don Chong for example. :lol:

I haven't seen this gas in AZ yet. But then I use Chevron. Maybe I'll stop at the Shell next time and check it out.

just pulled this off Shell's site:



Shell Launches New Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines

Introducing a new molecule designed to seek and destroy engine gunk in both conventional and modern engines.

Houston – Today at Shell stations across the U.S., consumers will fill-up with a new product at the pumps. Shell is introducing the all-new Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines, containing a unique, patented cleaning system designed to seek and destroy engine “gunk” (carbon deposits) in all three grades of gasoline. The new Nitrogen Enriched cleaning system protects and cleans up gunky build-up on intake valves and fuel injectors left by lower quality gasolines.

Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines. The increased stability ensures that the molecule can work under much tougher engine conditions by resisting thermal breakdown better than conventional cleaning additives.

“At Shell, our ‘Passionate Experts’ are dedicated to helping motorists get the most out of every drop of gasoline,” said Jens Mueller-Belau, Fuels Portfolio and Category Manager North America, Shell Retail.. “With Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines, our scientists have increased the effectiveness of our cleaning additive, offering consumers our most advanced technology ever.”

In addition to developing the new fuel with the consumer in mind, Shell worked very closely with automotive manufacturers to gain insight into current and future engine technologies. These insights along with fuels technology leadership and a strong research and development program help Shell continually improve its products.

Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines were tested in laboratories, independent testing facilities, and on the road, accumulating more than a half-million miles in various vehicles and engines—including conventional, turbo-charged, and direct fuel-injection gasoline engines, hybrids, newer vehicles with low mileage, and older vehicles with high mileage.

Shell scientists also used innovative testing technologies such as dual fuel engines to conduct head-to-head comparisons with other lower quality gasolines. In these tests, split engines simultaneously run on different types of gasoline in order to collect data under the exact same conditions. The results of these head-to-head comparisons proved that the Shell Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines are more effective than lower quality gasolines in protecting against the build-up of harmful engine gunk.

“In today’s tough economy, American drivers are concerned about protecting their vehicle since it’s one of their largest investments,” said Mueller-Belau. “We want to help protect that investment. That’s why we want them to educate consumers that there is a difference in the gasoline they choose. Using lower quality gasolines can result in gunky build-up on critical engine parts, negatively impacting engine performance. Shell gasolines help drivers say ‘No’ to gunk.”

The Nitrogen Enriched formula is proven to prevent build-up of gunk more effectively than gasolines containing only the minimum amount of cleaning agents as required by the EPA.

The new cleaning system is certified to meet the TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Standard – voluntary standards designated by some of the world’s top automakers (Audi, BMW, GM, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen) to try to raise the bar on fuel quality beyond minimum government criteria. Industry research has proven that a clean engine results in better fuel efficiency, reduced emissions, and overall optimal vehicle performance.

In addition, Shell V-Power® premium gasoline provides maximum protection with the highest concentration of the Nitrogen Enriched cleaning system and more than five times the minimum amount of cleaning agents required by federal government standards. It seeks and destroys engine gunk even faster than regular Shell gasoline, providing maximum protection to help vehicles maintain peak performance.

Shell is supporting the launch of Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines with a national marketing campaign, including national TV, radio and online advertising, as well as point-of-purchase signage at Shell-branded stations nationwide. The new campaign builds-on the current “Passionate Experts” platform, focusing on the company’s commitment to fuel quality and passion for developing innovative new products.

“At Shell, we believe it’s important to educate consumers that all gasolines are not the same—high quality gasoline can make a difference in a vehicle,” said Karen Wildman, Shell U.S. brand and communications manager. “We’re dedicated to continuous product improvement and innovation, and to helping consumers get the most out of every drop.”

For additional information on Shell Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines, visit www.passionate-experts.shell.com.

Gunk is such an exact term for what builds up in an engine.

it's very scientific. :)

Nitrogen like Nitrous?! OMfG NOZZZ BOOOOOOST!!!!111

Seriously though, it's all probably just marketing and stuff. Maybe it'll help a little, but I doubt it'll have a drastic impact on your engine... ESPECIALLY if you live in CA.
Damn them and their gazillion fuel regulations...

Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines were tested in laboratories, independent testing facilities, and on the road, accumulating more than a half-million miles in various vehicles and engines—including conventional, turbo-charged, and direct fuel-injection gasoline engines, hybrids, newer vehicles with low mileage, and older vehicles with high mileage.

What's missing from this list of engines....?

-sigh-

yeah, I was hoping they'd list it but as usual we have been forgotten.

:confused::confused::confused:I sent shell an email asking the same thing

What's missing from this list of engines....?

-sigh-

:dunno:I haven't heard a word about it - must be just in the US, we don't have this in Canada.

I do work for shell, in a refinery, but we are probably the last people to know!

I can tell you that the cleaning additive part of Formula Shell was based on a potassium compound - they must have found a better cleaner?:dunno:

sooo.... what you're SAYING is that US is cooler then Canada?
That's all I got out of that. :cool:

:lol:Yes, ........cooler that's what I meant......that's the ticket, cooler.

Because I don't know how to spell Guinea Pig!:lol:

I must of seen the damn commercial for it 60 times since Sunday, much like the freecreditreport.com commercial......its starting to get on my nerves :banghead:


:dunno:I haven't heard a word about it - must be just in the US, we don't have this in Canada.

I do work for shell, in a refinery, but we are probably the last people to know!

I can tell you that the cleaning additive part of Formula Shell was based on a potassium compound - they must have found a better cleaner?:dunno:

Ceez76: Are you still singing that damned song to yourself?

I did wonder what they were doing with it as well. Threw it in my car the other day as I have normally put Shell in my car and my mileage seems down a little. I'm going to have to wait until the weekend to see it a little better though. Might just have to start driving that extra mile over to Sunoco for Ultra94 soon.

yup and the voices in my head :rant:
[
QUOTE=DeViLbOi;2907085]Ceez76: Are you still singing that damned song to yourself?

I did wonder what they were doing with it as well. Threw it in my car the other day as I have normally put Shell in my car and my mileage seems down a little. I'm going to have to wait until the weekend to see it a little better though. Might just have to start driving that extra mile over to Sunoco for Ultra94 soon.[/QUOTE]

Before the vpower i used to use the ultra94 in all my cars but we dont have ultra94 anymore in NJ

Ceez76: Are you still singing that damned song to yourself?

I did wonder what they were doing with it as well. Threw it in my car the other day as I have normally put Shell in my car and my mileage seems down a little. I'm going to have to wait until the weekend to see it a little better though. Might just have to start driving that extra mile over to Sunoco for Ultra94 soon.

Filled up with shell last week and check engine light stayed on till i refueled with BP

Filled up with shell last week and check engine light stayed on till i refueled with BP

If you used the same exact octane, then it was probably nothing but your gas cap.

I've noticed this nitrogen thing too, I always fill up at my local shell so whenever it came out is how long I have been using it which is at least once so far...

yeah...it's not nitrogen gas (N2).....it's cleaning agents that have nitrogen as an element in the molecular structure of the agent.

Whether they work better I guess you have to trust shell, but I wouldn't be worried about the "paying for nothing" issue

I have used nearly nothing but V-Power and saw the ads - still using Vpower for as long as the nitrogen stuff has been out with no differences. Seems to me it can't make THAT much of a difference - the air we breathe is like 80% nitrogen so it seems the engine would be getting a healthy dose of it either way....but as elysium19 says, if it's not N2 gas, who knows what chemical it is - I'm not going to worry about it. If it breaks my engine apart, then maybe Shell will buy me a new one....(wishful thinking)

I'm certainly not hating on Shell,

but when oil companies add 'new forumulas' to their fuels, problems can result (even after their 'extensive testing').

For example (coincidentally Shell), Shell Canada put a new additive into their gas in Canada in 2001 - "This additive allegedly caused damage to the fuel supply system of many cars, most commonly of Acura, Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, General Motors, Hyundai and Volvo brands." *

"June 4, 2002 - ALBERTA, Calgary -- Shell Canada was forced to apologize to its customers after an additive in the company's gasoline was found to damage car engines. "We extend our sincere apology for any inconvenience this problem may have caused," said Terry Blaney, Shell Canada's vice president of marketing." **


So, as with anything new and unproven, I'd advocate caution....

This is a good discussion!



* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Canada_lawsuit

** http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4474843-1.html

Canada, you say? Maybe Stealth does know how to spell guinea pig after all!

Well I finally got a response from shell regarding the new fuel and here is it..........



Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. In reference to your inquiry, Shell Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines are suited for all gasoline-powered engines. We appreciate the opportunity to serve you in this matter and look forward to providing you with quality Shell branded products and service in the future. Sincerely,Shell Customer Care

I http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ClOpfgrZnG40iM:http://lh4.ggpht.com/_fcH0--P21DQ/R56ObXUQtSI/AAAAAAAAAHI/lGVSiK49vOQ/heart.gif form letters.

Yeah....exactly why im gonna save that email for a rainy day if you know what I mean. :eyetwitch
I http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ClOpfgrZnG40iM:http://lh4.ggpht.com/_fcH0--P21DQ/R56ObXUQtSI/AAAAAAAAAHI/lGVSiK49vOQ/heart.gif form letters.

Well I finally got a response from shell regarding the new fuel and here is it..........



Thank you for bringing your concerns to our attention. In reference to your inquiry, Shell Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines are suited for all gasoline-powered engines. We appreciate the opportunity to serve you in this matter and look forward to providing you with quality Shell branded products and service in the future. Sincerely,Shell Customer Care

thats pretty much saying

YEAH ITS GOOD, TRUST US ! THANK YOU COME AGAIN !

hmm ...

I think this is just another marketing gimmick, pretty much like Original V-Power, then Mobil's Super+ Unleaded, Then BP came out with their Invigorate. Now Shell wants to get attention again so bam, Nitrogen Enrichd Gasoline.

It does help somewhat, at least its much better than the pathetic federal requirements(they cut that shit in 1/2 years ago to save oil companies money, assholes)

The closest Shell station around my home is like couple miles away, its on the way to Autozone, maybe next time when I go there I will stop by for some gas.

I'm gonna fill up tonight....lets see what happens.

thats pretty much saying

YEAH ITS GOOD, TRUST US ! THANK YOU COME AGAIN !

hmm ...

I think this is just another marketing gimmick, pretty much like Original V-Power, then Mobil's Super+ Unleaded, Then BP came out with their Invigorate. Now Shell wants to get attention again so bam, Nitrogen Enrichd Gasoline.

It does help somewhat, at least its much better than the pathetic federal requirements(they cut that shit in 1/2 years ago to save oil companies money, assholes)

The closest Shell station around my home is like couple miles away, its on the way to Autozone, maybe next time when I go there I will stop by for some gas.

I have gone through my first 1/4 tank of gas on 30 miles. It was normally in the 45 - 50 range. We shall know more this weekend though.

I thought nitrogen is what you put in your TIRES (I have to admit though that the insides of my tires are clean).

Nitrogen can be put in your tires as it weighs less than just normal compressed air. However, they are saying it is simply part of the chemical composition of their addative. They are marketting it in such a way, at least around here, to catch the idiots thinking it is going to be a power adder like NO2.

sucker born every minute

Don't see Mazda in the picture.....



Shell says that its Nitrogen Enriched Cleaning System contains a “carrier fluid” that acts like water, washing away both the cleaning agents and the engine gunk into the cylinder, where gunk is destroyed as part of the combustion process. In addition, The Nitrogen Enriched Cleaning System acts like a barrier to keep engines clean and protect them from performance-robbing gunk better than before.

Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at the higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines. The increased stability ensures that the molecule can work under much tougher engine conditions by resisting thermal breakdown better than conventional cleaning additives.

Shell worked with automotive manufacturers to gain insight into current and future engine technologies. Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines were tested in laboratories, independent testing facilities, and on the road, accumulating more than a half-million miles in various vehicles and engines—including conventional, turbo-charged, and direct fuel-injection gasoline engines, hybrids, newer vehicles with low mileage, and older vehicles with high mileage
Shell scientists used dual fuel engines to conduct head-to-head comparisons with other lower-quality gasolines. In these tests, split engines simultaneously run on different types of gasoline in order to collect data under the exact same conditions. The results of these head-to-head comparisons showed that the Shell Nitrogen Enriched Gasolines are more effective than lower quality gasolines in protecting against the build-up of harmful engine gunk, according to Shell.

The Nitrogen Enriched formula prevents build-up of gunk more effectively than gasolines containing only the minimum amount of cleaning agents as required by the EPA. The new cleaning system is certified to meet the Top Tier Detergent Gasoline Standard—voluntary standards designated by leading automakers (Audi, BMW, GM, Honda, Toyota, Volkswagen) to try to raise the bar on fuel quality beyond minimum government criteria.

Shell V-Power premium gasoline provides maximum protection with the highest concentration of the Nitrogen Enriched cleaning system and more than five times the minimum amount of cleaning agents required by federal government standards

:tool: -->wow you guys need to get with the program I thought about asking this question 2 weeks ago.

I've gone thru 1 1/2 tanks so far and it's the same as always no change all all. On a side note our Shell here is ethanol free always has been not sure if this holds any relevance or not.

^Good thing you don't live in a corn state.

^Good thing you don't live in a corn state.

NYC dont grow corns

but we have that gay Ethanol in our gas ! grrrrrr ...

UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also just recieved a reply from Mazda regarding the nitrogen enriched fuel and they state they do not recomend it untill all testing has been done.

V-Power is made from People!!!!!! :yumyum:

VVVVEeeeeeeeeeeeee licious :evil_laug

Here is the email I got from Mazda.....


Cesar,



Mazda has not officially approved the use of this nitrogen enriched fuel, therefore we cannot recommend its use.



Regards,

Tim Kotlar

Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business

Interesting, but that is what I would expect them to say.
I would E-mail them back and see if they have any plans to do so.

Might be more fun to send Mazda's reponse back to the guy at Shell and ask if they will therfore be covering any warranty claims on Mazda rotary engines. That might get a slightly more nuanced reply.

Already did

Interesting, but that is what I would expect them to say.
I would E-mail them back and see if they have any plans to do so.

Waaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of you .

Might be more fun to send Mazda's reponse back to the guy at Shell and ask if they will therfore be covering any warranty claims on Mazda rotary engines. That might get a slightly more nuanced reply.

So, I filled up with the "new and improved" Shell V-Power. All I can say is..... WTF!?!?!?!? I get poor gas mileage, about 160-190 miles per tank(never hit 200). Well, I am at 1/4 of a tank and need to fill up soon and I am at 120 miles. My driving habits didnt change. I will fill up again to see if this is a fluke or if this is what to expect with my car and this new gas. I would love to get my hands on pure 93 octane gasoline with no additives to see how it runs and what the mileage is like.

Hmm... maybe its just me but it seems like my MPG's have gone down alot... hmm...

wow third engine....im on my second :banghead:
Hmm... maybe its just me but it seems like my MPG's have gone down alot... hmm...

lol... nice... this is actually my 4th, was just stating i got 3 "new" ones in one month... but yeah anyone else notice their MPG's going to shit? like i said it might just be me...

Mine mpg is getting better. I don't use Shell.
I'm on engine 4.

actually since using the protek i've gotten a bit better mpg but not by much

lol... nice... this is actually my 4th, was just stating i got 3 "new" ones in one month... but yeah anyone else notice their MPG's going to shit? like i said it might just be me...

Al, you're on engine #4?! wow, never knew that.

yeah... engine 4... lol i would say im not proud but its not my fault really... each of the "new" engines i got didnt last over 100 miles so... not my fault...

Al, you're on engine #4?! wow, never knew that.

yeah... engine 4... lol i would say im not proud but its not my fault really... each of the "new" engines i got didnt last over 100 miles so... not my fault...
I've seemed to need a new one in August. Original went bad in 8/05, possibly bad apex or corner seal(s). Replace with a new engine from Japan. That one went bad 8/07, coolant leak into rotor housing. Third one 8/08, loss of compression in only one lobe. Likely a side seal problem. Using #4 at the moment. I believe that is a Virginia rebuild. Lets see if I can make it past August.

Nice man... im glad ive got someone with me on Lucky #4

geez...you guys have almost gone through more engines than i have w/tires...that's crazy...

btw - i haven't noticed anything from the nitrogen switch. I guess that's a good thing??

Hmm just MPG but it could just be me...

i use shell 93 all the time, its worked great for me....

we have ethanol and the nitrogen in our gas in TN....WHY CAN'T I JUST BUY NORMAL GAS WITH NOTHING IN IT BUT GAS!!!

we have ethanol and the nitrogen in our gas in TN....WHY CAN'T I JUST BUY NORMAL GAS WITH NOTHING IN IT BUT GAS!!!
It looks like there is a couple of counties in TN that have special gas formulations.

http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2005/06/the_case_for_mo.html

yeah i'm right there in that brown blob...
and where i buy my gas Shell has like a monopoly on whole stretch of road, so it's my only option. i've gotta drive a whole exit down to get different gas.

Ethanol in gas, you voted for it.

i couldn't vote when it was voted for...i just turned 18 in August

Four engines!:Eyecrazy:

Who holds the record for the most replaced engines going bad?

I have been using nothing but Shell V Power and this NO additive hasn't changed anything noticable. If anything I have gained mpg's since I have been driving her harder lately and I actually got slightly better mpg's hwy/st.

we have ethanol and the nitrogen in our gas in TN....WHY CAN'T I JUST BUY NORMAL GAS WITH NOTHING IN IT BUT GAS!!!

You need to move about 100 miles south to the nooga. There is 3 gas stations in less than 2 miles of my house that are ethanol free.

I'm getting worse MPG.


I ALWAYS use shell V-power. I usually get 250 miles to the tank (13.5 gallons on average when filling up) but now I'm a little over 200. Driving habits are the same.

Ethanol in gas, you voted for it.
As individuals, we didn't vote for it. As a populace, we did. I sometimes wonder how much a vote really means. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

It's odd to me that you guys are getting such a noticeable decrease in mpg. It seems as if I'm quite the opposite as I fill up every friday. I pretty much drive the same route everyday with my car so the light comes guaranteed every fri afternoon. It's now Thursday afternoon and I have a little less than 1/2 a tank which means buy tomorrow afternoon I'll have 1/4 of a tank left. It hasn't been as cold outside so my warm ups are not as long but still I doubt that's worth 1/4 of a tank. I'm not saying I'm getting better mpg but it's definitely not getting worse.

For example (coincidentally Shell - Sorry StealthTL), Shell Canada put a new additive into their gas in Canada in 2001 - "This additive allegedly caused damage to the fuel supply system of many cars, most commonly of Acura, Chrysler, Dodge, Ford, General Motors, Hyundai and Volvo brands." *

"June 4, 2002 - ALBERTA, Calgary -- Shell Canada was forced to apologize to its customers after an additive in the company's gasoline was found to damage car engines. "We extend our sincere apology for any inconvenience this problem may have caused," said Terry Blaney, Shell Canada's vice president of marketing." **


Canada, you say? Maybe Stealth does know how to spell guinea pig after all!


are you kidding Stealth PUT that in there herself;)

I filled up with it one day and didn't notice anything different. If it supposedly does clean up carbon then its an extra bonus for us rotary folks. Marketing gimmick or not, but it was the same price as other stations. I only use Sunoco, Shell or Exxon tho.

half tank...100 miles...puts me on target to be down 3 or so mpg.

half tank...80 miles.. cool.

*rant*

no shell station around my home

*end rant*

I'm on my 3rd tank of this stuff and it does seem like I got at least 1.5 mpg less than usual on the fist couple of tanks. It's only been a couple of tanks so it doesn't mean anything definitive but ...

I am not too crazy about Shell gasoline. I tried some 93 v-power a few tanks and did not notice anything different. Shell gas stations by me are always like 10 cents more per gallon. I think my car runs best on Hess gas. And the Shell gas station by me does not have this new mix

I am not too crazy about Shell gasoline. I tried some 93 v-power a few tanks and did not notice anything different. Shell gas stations by me are always like 10 cents more per gallon. I think my car runs best on Hess gas. And the Shell gas station by me does not have this new mix


ethanol free maybe? The fuel stations in my area that do not support the corn are about .10 more a gallon.

So far, my experience with the "new and improved" shell gas has been a poor one. I am on target for another 40 miles less per tank using that gas. Although, I did notice my car running rich as hell this morning. Made me want to suck on the tail pipe :) smells gooood. <-- guess that explains a lot about me. I think I will go back to Hess or Mobile. If you are premixing then you dont really need all the other detergents and BS from Shell. Save yourself some money if your premixing and go somewhere else.

Noticed no difference at all between V-Power with/without Nitrogen. Been filling up with V-Power Nitrogen for 2 tanks, I didn't realize it was new V-Power until I read this thread.

Ok...well I had to do a lot of running today with a friend so I never got the light to come on. However...shouldn't matter. 165.4 miles on 10.1 gallons of Shell v93. Filled with BP w/ Invigorate today 135 miles...not even a half tank.

Here is a blurb on nitrogen from Chevron's website:

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/mrgas/?&aID=2141&cID=34

And yes, Chevron's own fuels (and others as well) are nitrogen-enriched. The mareting you're seeing is akin to Burger King advertising 'We use REAL WHEAT to make our hamburger buns!'. Okayyyy....and then?!

Dude I filled up with Shell the last week and was like meh ok what ever. But this week when I filled up I was like OMG! I'm only going to use Shell from now on!!!

OK...the BP test ended at 225.6 miles on 11 gallons. So that puts BP at 20.5 mpg and Shell at 16.5 mpg. I filled up with Shell again last night to make sure I didn't get some bad gas or something.

Dude I filled up with Shell the last week and was like meh ok what ever. But this week when I filled up I was like OMG! I'm only going to use Shell from now on!!!

He forgot to mention that after he filled up and took off screamin "OMG this gas is awesome" Chris Angel jumped out from behind the gas pump and said "Mind Freaked"

Okay, my last three tanks came in right at 240-245 miles per tank, so we will see how this "new" Shell works out. I just filled up this afternoon.

I "purposely" run my car till it almost died, then fill it up with this "NO2 enchanced 1337 Supa V-power" ...

so far. 100 miles. nothing too "Special"

maybe its doing its job. who knows :)

Well, it contains Nitrogen. Just like just about everything else on this friggin' planet. Woo-Hoo. Nitrogen. Let's advertise it.

But why stop there. "Buy Shell V-Power, now with lots and lots of Electrons, helping it to bind with 'Engine Gunk' and carry it away!"

lol!

well, at least better than nothing? :)

for the same price, I would rather go Shell with their "NOz NAzzzwwwwzzzz Supa duper ACME Crazy 1337 PWNz j00 killer" Additive than some other no name brand. right ? :)

Some of you are barely getting 200miles, sad :(
I get 260 miles I think before the light, and I use anything I can find, from SHELL to Costco...
I have yet to use this as I really haven't found anything in the awesome land of the french.

Are you sure that's not 260Km?

Some of you are barely getting 200miles, sad :(
I get 260 miles I think before the light, and I use anything I can find, from SHELL to Costco...
I have yet to use this as I really haven't found anything in the awesome land of the french.

when I first got my car, I can get 200 miles b4 the fuel light goes on

2 yrs ago, 180

now, 140-150

I dont know man ~~~ :( Same gas station, same gas grade. new plugs/new coils. no help :(

i get like 100-130... im always at redline...

OK, I've now gone through 3 full tanks of this Shell nitrogen stuff:

636 miles / 36.1 gallons = 17.6 mpg

That may sound pretty good to many of you, but that is about 1.5 mpg less than my average. But, maybe I've been driving a little hard lately with Spring and all.

Are you sure that's not 260Km?

Probably not.....I can get 250-255 MILES before the light sometimes if I fill it all the way up.

Its been over 10 days since I sent shell the email I recieved from Mazda stating that Mazda does not recomend using the nitrogen enriched fuels in the rx-8 until all testing is done. In my intial email to shell they were quick to tell me that their fuel was fine for the rotary engine but after I sent them what mazda sent me.......im still waiting. I was at the dealership today getting my cat replaced and I was told to play it safe and not use shell till mazda was done with testing, but then again no one could tell me how long testing would take. Who knows maybe it is harmful in the long run.

First post - been a lurker for a while. Absorbing lots of info, though.

Bought a '06 Copper Red Shinka almost a month ago. Been a great runner. Loving the rotary whine - been a long time since I've heard it (a couple buddies had RX-7's).

Anyway, my local station is a Shell, and I didn't think too much about the additive, however, I'm on my second tank of the stuff, and I'm noticing a rougher idle, and a bit of a twitch I hadn't noticed before when accelerating. Hmmm.

Going to try to burn through this soonest (although my temp tags expire on Sunday ...) and fill up at the Sunoco station nearby.

Got to monitor this thread ...

how awesome would it be (or not) if all Shell gas stations had to put up a big ol' sign stating "ATTENTION ROTARY ENGINE OWNERS: THIS GASOLINE .. blah blah blah" ;)

I'm willing to bet that we won't hear anything from Shell or Mazda.

d00d, I totally filled up with liek 16 gallons the other day and I swear my car runs sooooo much sm00ther. Liek, before, I couldn't feel any virbration but now even my wife's hyundai runs smoother and she's still on CITGO gas!!!11eleventy1

Seriously, expecting any significant improvement or seeing a decrease in performance such a small statistical sample...? It could have just been the fact that a heat wave went across the nation this week and everybody's driving a little more exuberantly (I know I was).

Also, aren't these additives really about making improvements (or preventing degradation) over long periods of time? What I mean is that I doubt you'd see the same amount of carbon reduction in 20 tanks of nitrogen/techron/invigorate-additive-enriched gasoline that you'd get with one application of Seafoam using the Mazda decarbonizing method.

Ethanol in gas, you voted for it.

You mean ADM paid Congress for it. :rant:

Though, from what I've read, the benefits from moving away from MTBE are worth it.

True ...but then again they were quick to reply now just waiting on what shell has to say ( if they have anything else to say) but im not holding my breath.

I'm willing to bet that we won't hear anything from Shell or Mazda.

d00d, I totally filled up with liek 16 gallons the other day and I swear my car runs sooooo much sm00ther. Liek, before, I couldn't feel any virbration but now even my wife's hyundai runs smoother and she's still on CITGO gas!!!11eleventy1

Seriously, expecting any significant improvement or seeing a decrease in performance such a small statistical sample...? It could have just been the fact that a heat wave went across the nation this week and everybody's driving a little more exuberantly (I know I was).

Also, aren't these additives really about making improvements (or preventing degradation) over long periods of time? What I mean is that I doubt you'd see the same amount of carbon reduction in 20 tanks of nitrogen/techron/invigorate-additive-enriched gasoline that you'd get with one application of Seafoam using the Mazda decarbonizing method.
I agree, but as for the part about the small statistical sample that argument cuts both ways. If there's no real effect on fuel economy, I would eventually expect to also see some random reports of better fuel economy to offset our current small negative sample.

^.............I agree, mine better get better real quick. True I'm on my first tank, but mileage seems to have dropped. Only 1/4 down right now, but seems to have gone down. To early to really tell.

.........This is a marketing coup if they pull it off. ShamWOW!


http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg119/jonathanwells81/Shamwow.jpg

skipped msot of the topic basically cause i saw "octane booster" additives mentioned.

octane booster is a waste of money, it does nothing.

Do you guys understand octane ratings (that sounds smartass but im serious)?

Basically it breaks down into this, the higher the octane number the SLOWER the fuel ignites. Thats why you will here pinging when using 87 octane in a car requiring 93 octane.

This is also why 93 octane is suggested for any FI application, slower burning means more resistant to pre-ignition/detonation, aka tick tick boom.

RX-8's need no special fuel, just run the super unleaded and you'll be fine. Of course every gas company has it's little things to try to get you to buy theirs, and yes some do have advantages over engine buildup etc. But barebones 93 octane will be fine for almost anything.

Also sidenote, if you think about the higher octane burning SLOWER then you can make the connection in your head that REALISTICALLY your car running identical setups on 89 and 93 octane will normally make more power on the lower octane, barely noticeable but true. The lower octane however removes a large safety barrier and so you shouldnt dabble in it.

kevin.

Kevin, the vast majority of people in this thread already know what you have said. I believe the main purpose of this thread was that a lot of us run the Shell V-power and they just changed the formulation, so we are just discussing if it will...................
1.) Hurt the rotary..............there's no real data.
2.) Give overall decreased or increase mpg. It appears to decrease at this point.
3.) Whether or not it really helps in anyway.........and we know it's mostly hype.

I liked the V-power(93), as most did..........but I'm not going to run it based on my results of #2, because we know #3 is crap, and we don't really know about #1. I'll probably end up switching real soon to a completely ethanol free, since I have that option. Yes, V-power had up to 10% ethanol and now it has some percentage of nitrogen as well.


I may have missed the "Octane Booster" comment if it was really made, but you also didn't read everything in here. We ain't all completely stupid. :) Whether you care or not is up to you, but you've come off with "I know better than all of you" attitude in several posts lately. That's my opinion only, just thought you might want to know....................what you do with that info is totally up to you. And yes, I know what you do for a living. :Peace:

skipped msot of the topic basically cause i saw "octane booster" additives mentioned.

octane booster is a waste of money, it does nothing.

Do you guys understand octane ratings (that sounds smartass but im serious)?

Basically it breaks down into this, the higher the octane number the SLOWER the fuel ignites. Thats why you will here pinging when using 87 octane in a car requiring 93 octane.

This is also why 93 octane is suggested for any FI application, slower burning means more resistant to pre-ignition/detonation, aka tick tick boom.

RX-8's need no special fuel, just run the super unleaded and you'll be fine. Of course every gas company has it's little things to try to get you to buy theirs, and yes some do have advantages over engine buildup etc. But barebones 93 octane will be fine for almost anything.

Also sidenote, if you think about the higher octane burning SLOWER then you can make the connection in your head that REALISTICALLY your car running identical setups on 89 and 93 octane will normally make more power on the lower octane, barely noticeable but true. The lower octane however removes a large safety barrier and so you shouldnt dabble in it.

kevin.I don't recall anyone mentioning octane boosters??? That's not at all what this thread is about. But you bring up an interesting point that I've been wondering about. Totally stock 8 should be fine on 87 under normal conditions, shouldn't it? Isn't the knock sensor supposed to handle anything down to 87? Mazda just says performance might be reduced. You're saying there might be more power from lower octane. I've seen this point disputed. Faster burning doesn't necessarily mean more power. May vary from one gasoline to another, so I'm told, so some lower octane gas may have slightly more power but not necessarily. Is that not correct?

Yes, there maybe some noobs in this thread, but we ain't stupid.Speak for yourself! I'm no noob, but I am definitely stupid.

^...............Ha, you got in before my edit! I was already changing it!

I agree, but as for the part about the small statistical sample that argument cuts both ways. If there's no real effect on fuel economy, I would eventually expect to also see some random reports of better fuel economy to offset our current small negative sample.

Unless the general consensus is negative and the group think causes everyone to see evidence that matches their negative expectations.

Unless the general consensus is negative and the group think causes everyone to see evidence that matches their negative expectations. But I want the result to be positive 'cause I have Shell stations by my home and work and I have a Shell gas card. Very convenient for me and 5% off.

And as for group think ... "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

Im on my 2nd fillups of Shell's new 1337 Nitrogen Enriched V-Power 93 Octane.

So far ------ mpg has been "INCREASING". not much. I got about 10 miles more out of a tank.

Sounds good to me :)

will try a few more tanks, then go back to bp and see what sup(I always get piss poor mpg with bp)

The lower octane however removes a large safety barrier and so you shouldnt dabble in it.


how dangerous is it really? I mean I've run 89 octane with a good ratio of premix, I figured I'd be at 87 octane at best. Really though wouldn't you have to see something like 85 or below to really start risking something? On a NA setup. FI is entirely another story. I recall that being a popular tactic in the rotary circuit, hauling in low octane fuel.

/Greg

Anyone use this new "nitrogen enriched" fuel from Shell yet? Been filling up with v-power 93 octane for years but i'm a little worry about this nitrogen enriched stuff just dont know much about it and its effects (if any) on a rotary engine.

Wow, thats strange, V-Power is 98 octane here in Australia:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/4/1237648/Picture%205.png

Wow, thats strange, V-Power is 98 octane here in Australia:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/7/4/1237648/Picture%205.pngDifferent standard for measuring octane. You guys use RON, right?

Different standard for measuring octane. You guys use RON, right?

Thats correct... l'm guessing USA does not?

Thats correct... l'm guessing USA does not?We use an average of RON and something else ... checking Wiki ... yeah, an average of RON and MON: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

USA uses Research and Motor octane ratings, averaged.

Motor is usually 7 to 9 numbers lower, so 98 RON becomes USA 93/94 (very roughly).
94 is the highest I've seen around here......

S

We use an average of RON and something else ... checking Wiki ... yeah, an average of RON and MON: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

USA uses Research and Motor octane ratings, averaged.

Motor is usually 7 to 9 numbers lower, so 98 RON becomes USA 93/94 (very roughly).
94 is the highest I've seen around here......

S

Cheers guys, I shouldn't have been so lazy! I'll admit, it's just something l expected to be universal...

Ok...I squeeked out 170 miles on 10 gallons of Shell. Doesn't look like a bad tank of gas...just looks like bad gas. I had similar results about a year ago when I ran Speedway gas a couple times. If only Sunoco was closer to my house. :(

I used 6 tanks of the new formula shell gas. I always use shell v-power.

All 6 tanks my MPG went down ALOT. 3 tanks into it I installed my BHR coils. MPG was still low.

Switched to Chevron 93 and it went back to normal.


The old formula shell V-power got me the best MPG out of any gasoline regardless of octane or brand. The new formula sucks for gas mileage. At least in Houston, TX.

There is a shell right next to where I live and they are usually a few cents cheaper. So this sucks for me.

Anyone use this new "nitrogen enriched" fuel from Shell yet? Been filling up with v-power 93 octane for years but i'm a little worry about this nitrogen enriched stuff just dont know much about it and its effects (if any) on a rotary engine.


I can state for a fact the "new" Shell gas is mixed with 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.

:lol2:

I drove 15 miles on the gas light (out of town) to find a non-shell station just to avoid the Nitrogen Enriched gas. Passed 2 of them and some arco, etc places to find a Mobil station.

Shell seems to be ok for me.

2 Tanks. my MPG has increased !

Before : I barely be able to make 160 b4 my light goes on.
After Shell : I can make it to 170 b4 my light goes on.

Today, I filled it up with BP's Invigorate . Lets see what will happen.

Update, on the new Shell Nitrogen Gas for me. I get better mileage when just normal driving, under 7K rpm on a whole tank.

If I am driving "spiritedly" I get less mileage than when I drive "spiritedly" on the old V-power shell gas. :( I wish I had a choice between old V-power and the new Nitrogen V-power.

I think I get a little more omph on the new Nitrogen V-power though, but it could just be me.

I drive admittedly like I stole my car, get 200miles on a tank, 250 miles if freeway driving. Spirited about 180, fill up with chevron or mobil. used to fill on shell when desperate until the whole nitrogen thing....

I just tried this out the other day by accident.. 1 gallon in 5 miles epic.. switched back to mobil very quickly.

Shell seems to be ok for me.

2 Tanks. my MPG has increased !

Before : I barely be able to make 160 b4 my light goes on.
After Shell : I can make it to 170 b4 my light goes on.

Today, I filled it up with BP's Invigorate . Lets see what will happen.

jesh, I thought mine sucks. I bithc when I get to 220 for a 1/4 tank. usually light isnt until 260 or so.

89K miles on a 2004 LY.

^.................damn near impossible Shady.
Something is drastically wrong with the way you measured it!

shady: not possible to get 5mpg, not even in this car.

Been using it since it came out, haven't noticed any difference. Mileage is right about where it normally is

jesh, I thought mine sucks. I bithc when I get to 220 for a 1/4 tank. usually light isnt until 260 or so.

89K miles on a 2004 LY.

if I can get 220 till the light comes on. I will sell my Honda FIT right away.

:)

ny: that's crazy that your mpg is so low! I'll go 240 before I get to the gas station and the light STILL isn't on.

ny: that's crazy that your mpg is so low! I'll go 240 before I get to the gas station and the light STILL isn't on.

So my engine has a problem ?

KEVIN WHERE ARE YOU ?! :lol:

I've been using only shell v-power in my car ever since I got it. I noticed no difference from the added nitrogen in the fuel.

I wonder what the longterm effects of adding N20 in fuel is to emissions, particularly NOX??

I wonder what the longterm effects of adding N20 in fuel is to emissions, particularly NOX??

Um, the nitrogen is a scam. :lol:
All gas has nitrogen mixed in it.
Air is 78% nitrogen.

On a side note isn't it a bit odd that our shell nitrogen is ethanol free? I figured they would use ither one or the other ethanol or no ethanol. Also it seems like I'm getting way better mpg. Its thursday and I'm at half a tank-check previous posting for relavance. Ill reset my milage on the next fill for an official mpg.

On a side note isn't it a bit odd that our shell nitrogen is ethanol free?

How did you know ?

On a side note isn't it a bit odd that our shell nitrogen is ethanol free? I figured they would use ither one or the other ethanol or no ethanol. Also it seems like I'm getting way better mpg. Its thursday and I'm at half a tank-check previous posting for relavance. Ill reset my milage on the next fill for an official mpg.

If it is ethanol free, it would be because they mixed in so much other shit into the gas they cant legally get away with it. I know here in Boston, I can't find a gas station that doesnt have ethanol. Ethanol contains about 30% less energy by volume than gasoline and it absorbs water. That means we get worse gas mileage and worse performance. It also absorbs water, but theres no water in our gas :uhh:.

Shell and most other companies use ethanol. If your local gas station does not, feel lucky.

How did you know ?

Federal law states all stations using ethanol must mark their pumps as such.

Also I asked the gas man about 5 weeks ago.

If it is ethanol free, it would be because they mixed in so much other shit into the gas they cant legally get away with it. I know here in Boston, I can't find a gas station that doesnt have ethanol. Ethanol contains about 30% less energy by volume than gasoline and it absorbs water. That means we get worse gas mileage and worse performance. It also absorbs water, but theres no water in our gas :uhh:.

Shell and most other companies use ethanol. If your local gas station does not, feel lucky.

Their are 3 stations in a 2 miles radius that's ethanol free. Also there is no emissions testing or inspections in my area. So no cat for me.

You gotta ask yourself do you fill lucky?
I sure do!

Their are 3 stations in a 2 miles radius that's ethanol free. Also there is no emissions testing or inspections in my area. So no cat for me.

You gotta ask yourself do you fill lucky?
I sure do!

Well then obviously you are not like 99% of the members on the forum. No emission testing or inspections? What does your city grow pot and make crack so laws dont mean anything lol. Good for you, I can only dream.

Out 0f the 7 Shells I went to, all 7 had ethanol stickers on the pumps. Gotta love that 10% that your getting. We should sell everything with a performance robber or something that degrades the original product. Atleast we would make more money. Oil now with 10% peanut oil, Kool Aid with 10% tomato juice, Women with 10% herpes.

Actually marijuana and meth is our 2 major exports. Look up north georgia and SE tennesee sometime you'll be amazed.

Actually marijuana and meth is our 2 major exports. Look up north georgia and SE tennesee sometime you'll be amazed.

I knew there had to be a reason. Ethanol is bad for the meth :)

shady: not possible to get 5mpg, not even in this car.

Been using it since it came out, haven't noticed any difference. Mileage is right about where it normally is

I topped off and went around 5 miles and I saw my gauge go down to 3/4 tank (8 gauges lie allot) so I filled it back up with Mobil and it took .8 gallons.. I might have hit red line a few times but still that's a bit much.. I was in a rush so maybe I didn't top off all the way at the shell station, that could explain the issue..

...Yea that was most likely it.

Maybe I'll give it another try.

I topped off and went around 5 miles and I saw my gauge go down to 3/4 tank (8 gauges lie allot) so I filled it back up with Mobil and it took .8 gallons.. I might have hit red line a few times but still that's a bit much.. I was in a rush so maybe I didn't top off all the way at the shell station, that could explain the issue..

...Yea that was most likely it.

Maybe I'll give it another try.

I have seen pump prematurly stop pumping. It happened to me once. I was filling up from about 1/4 a tank and I put in less than $7 of gas and it stopped. I know I wasnt full, so I squeezed the handle again and it stopped after another $2 or so. Got in the car turned it on and I was close to being full but not quite there. Drove a little bit, when back to the gas station and put in another $3. Shit happens. To really get a good gauge of MPG and performance from gas, you really need to fill up with the same gas a few times. I have noticed a decrease in mpg for me. Probablly since I get all the Nitrogen crap and Ethanol were I live. I'll stick to Hess and Mobile were I seem to get better mileage. Im going to try Sunoco eventually, but its ever open when I need a fill up.

yea its happened to me before oh well.. I think I am partial to mobil becuase I get 1% cash back on my check card..

yea its happened to me before oh well.. I think I am partial to mobil becuase I get 1% cash back on my check card..I like Shell because there's a 5% discount with their credit card. Hess used to be 5% but now it's 3%.

I don't think the shut-off pressure sensors on gas pumps are a consistent way to measure anything. It's very hard to fill up the 8's tank completely and I suspect that's on purpose because over filling is supposedly bad for the charcoal filter thingy.

yea I don't like credit cards though I get 1% back from my bank..

I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread yet. I use Shell Premium gas only. The engine is running fine, I've been using their nitrogen gas or w/e since it came out. I'm going to read the rest of this thread later...

I haven't read any of the other posts in this thread yet. I use Shell Premium gas only. The engine is running fine, I've been using their nitrogen gas or w/e since it came out. I'm going to read the rest of this thread later...

lol. Cliff notes. Mazda does not recommend it. Shell has no comment. Some of us experience decrease in MPG while others claim an increase. I believe your MPG may have to do with where you live since some Shell stations do not have Ethanol while most do. Thats pretty much it.

I say we continue beating the subject to death...

we should start filling up on race fuel and premix for a month or two... That would be fun.

I would love to fill up with pur gasoline. No additives or extra enriching bs. We all know that will never happen though

i want to use jet fuel and have a turbine powered 8..

OK, read the thread, and I have to say, now that I think about it, my MPG has been lower lately. I attributed it to it getting nicer out and me using a heavier foot. But it might be the gas. I'm catless and get about 220 now whereas I was getting like 235 or so. I think I'm gonna try running a couple tanks of sunoco and see what the difference is.

Shell 93 is always 100% gasoline without ethanol, and with additives. That is why I used it all this time. My mileage dropped quite a bit with my first tank of 93 w/nitrogen. So I guess there could be an issue. So I am probably going to go 93 w/ethenol at some other gas station. If your car has a 100k power train warranty and only has 20k miles on it like mine, I wont bother with the little difference between 93 w/ethanol or without ethenol...just my $0.02

Shell 93 is always 100% gasoline without ethanol, and with additives.

Come to Boston and you will learn how wrong you are. If you can find an Ethanol free gas station in Boston, I will find you manbearpig.

heh, all my co-workers are wondering why i just laughed so loud.. manbearpig

http://mulaz.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/manbearpig.jpg

ITS HALF MAN, HALF BEAR AND HALF PIG!!!!!!!! IT ROAMS THE EARTH ATTACKING HUMANS FOR NO REASON!! PEOPLE WILL TAKE ME SERIAL

Manbearpig?!

:rofl:^ half man half bear half pig!

Shell 93 is always 100% gasoline without ethanol, and with additives.

Depends on where you live. Some states has a regulation to have 10% ethanol. So in my area, I haven't found Shell 93 that doesn't contain ethanol - all pumps have the obnoxious "Contains Up To 10% Ethanol" stickers.

Depends on where you live. Some states has a regulation to have 10% ethanol. So in my area, I haven't found Shell 93 that doesn't contain ethanol - all pumps have the obnoxious "Contains Up To 10% Ethanol" stickers.

We get screwed since Shell uses 10% ethanol(in our areas) AND about 8x more than the standard amount of detergents in their gas, thus making them a Top Tier Gas Station. 8x More detergent(then your standard gas station.. we will say Hess) + 10% Ethanol = < Gas

at least y'all get 93 out there... were stuck with 91... Also I just started premixing which has killed my economy but made the engine run allot smoother, not sure what I should do about that.

What and how much are you premixing?

Well...I was refering to WI when I said Shell 93 does not have ethonol....it says in BIG LETTER - 100% Gasoline for 93, and upto 10% ethenol for 87,91

Sorry to hear you guys dont get it your areas, but I assume we wont have it for long either.

ManPigBear? lol that is funny!

:rofl:^ half man half bear half pig!

lol - so it's a 150%? shouldnt it be 1/3 man, 1/3 bear and 1/3 pig

Oh who care...lol

What it should be and how it is referenced in South Park are two different things. I refrenced South Park since it makes it even funnier.

What and how much are you premixing?

MMO 1/2 oz per gallon...

MMO 1/2 oz per gallon...

Most people use between 4-8 oz of premix per fillup(full tank). I use about 5oz since thats the size of the lucas additive bottle. I bought lucas just for the bottle, used it and refill it with MMO. Makes it easier to just grab a small bottle and dump it in to your tank at fillup. Anyway, I have not noticed a decrease in my mpg because of premixing, only from using different gas.

I do the same thing but I premix with 2 stroke oil from west marine. Buy a giant jug and refill the small bottles so when I'm gassing up, I can just dump one. It's more complicated in NJ because we're not supposed to pump our own gas. I do anyway about 1/2 the time though

I do the same thing but I premix with 2 stroke oil from west marine. Buy a giant jug and refill the small bottles so when I'm gassing up, I can just dump one. It's more complicated in NJ because we're not supposed to pump our own gas. I do anyway about 1/2 the time though

Huh? You can't even pump your own gas? What kind of crazyness is this. The only fuel we can't pump is race fuel and that because it's illegal to put in a street car, ofcourse everyone does any way though.

Huh? You can't even pump your own gas? What kind of crazyness is this. The only fuel we can't pump is race fuel and that because it's illegal to put in a street car, ofcourse everyone does any way though.

NJ and Oregon have laws where only the attendent can pump the gas. Both states are all full service.

Sounds like just another excuse to dig into your pockets to me. Tell you what though go ahead and spill a bit of fuel on my paint and see what happens. I suppose they have laws for that as well.

Sounds like just another excuse to dig into your pockets to me. Tell you what though go ahead and spill a bit of fuel on my paint and see what happens. I suppose they have laws for that as well.

The idea behind it is that it creates more jobs (gas station attendants)
The prices in NJ are one of the cheapest in the country. I'm still paying $1.99 for premium. Plus, if you really want to pump your own gas, it's not like the attendant is gonna complain or anything.....

Ah so its not law just a courtsey well that's cool I guess. Fuel here is not much more expensive here 2.05 but its ethanol free so we'll see who goes further on 100 dollers of gas

No, no.. it is law. They just don't care all that much. They'll do their job, but if you volunteer to do it, they'll let you

threadjack? I'm paying $2.39

anyways when you average it out I put in 7 oz's of MMO.. I noticed an immediate decrease in MPG I was sitting at 20/23 now I'm 18/20 its very strange(this I have measured over a few month's and averaged out the MPG's) however I know that the engine likes it so I'm happy to oblige.

No, no.. it is law. They just don't care all that much. They'll do their job, but if you volunteer to do it, they'll let you

Whenever Im in NJ, I always let them put it in, then I will take it out and lock the gas cap myself

cuz couple of times those asses didnt even close the lid right ... :(

so yeah ... Im doing it myself. when its done I just take my card back, put it back, lock it, and drive off. They dont mind. less work for them.

threadjack? I'm paying $2.39

anyways when you average it out I put in 7 oz's of MMO.. I noticed an immediate decrease in MPG I was sitting at 20/23 now I'm 18/20 its very strange(this I have measured over a few month's and averaged out the MPG's) however I know that the engine likes it so I'm happy to oblige.

You can try adding less MMO to see if the MPG come back. I use about 5 oz, some use 4oz, some use 8oz. There is no magical number so dont feel as if you must use 7oz. I do agree with you though, after my first premix, I was hooked. I use about 5oz MMO on every fillup and on every few fill ups I add 2-3 oz of 2 Cycle oil aswell. Once I run out of 2 Cycle oil, I will be using FP+.

yea I'm afraid to introduce to many cleaning agents/oils the engine is sitting at 109k. unless it got replaced before i purchased it at 96k.. I'm still not sure how to verify engine replacement Mazda USA wont release the info.

yea I'm afraid to introduce to many cleaning agents/oils the engine is sitting at 109k. unless it got replaced before i purchased it at 96k.. I'm still not sure how to verify engine replacement Mazda USA wont release the info.

MMO will help prolong the life of your engine by providing additional lubrication. Its never too late to premix. You may be able to go to your dealer and have them look up the VIN to see if the engine was ever replaced. Not sure if the ycan/will do that.

OK, 4 tanks of Shell nitrogen-enriched 87 compared with 4 tanks of Hess 87:

Shell: 895 miles / 50.7 gal = 17.7 mpg

Hess: 1080 miles / 54.4 gal = 19.8 mpg

I tried to drive my usual spirited style on both, red-lining 4-5 times on my commute, etc.

I hate ethanol. It caused my Mazda 6 to overheat and the Transmission overheated as well. It made the car run like crap and felt slower than a 1983 honda civic.

OK, 4 tanks of Shell nitrogen-enriched 87 compared with 4 tanks of Hess 87:

Shell: 895 miles / 50.7 gal = 17.7 mpg

Hess: 1080 miles / 54.4 gal = 19.8 mpg

I tried to drive my usual spirited style on both, red-lining 4-5 times on my commute, etc.

Seems about what I am seeing between the Shell and some BP(due to it being ethanol free). Both 93 octane and I'd say the Shell is about 20 miles or so to the tank lower. I still need more data to know for sure.

BP is ethanol free?
I might have to switch brands... Too bad theres no BP near me

I had worse gas mileage when it first came out and switched to chevron. But, I've since switched back mostly because of price.

I'm happy to report that for some reason I'm getting about the same gas mileage as the old formula now.

I have no idea why.

BP is ethanol free?
I might have to switch brands... Too bad theres no BP near meThe way gas if formulated depends on what state, or even county, you buy it in. It's all a matter of Federal & State laws. Unfortunately for me, all gas here contains ethanol due to state law. This is a farm state and the legislators wanted to pander to the farm vote.

I'm just astonished. I have no loyalty to any (name) brand, but will buy from whomever is the cheapest at the time. I'm still averaging between 230-250 mpg regardless of brand.:dunno:

I'm just astonished. I have no loyalty to any (name) brand, but will buy from whomever is the cheapest at the time. I'm still averaging between 230-250 mpg regardless of brand.:dunno:

Ditto!!

AND, now that it's warmed back up some, I'm back in the 260-270 miles per tank range (20mpg, city driving, on average), even using Speedway (10% ethanol) fuel. I'm going on a trip to Atlanta this weekend, and I fully expect to be in the 300-320 miles per tank range off of any 'ol truck stop fuel along the way...

Formulations change on May 1st to reduce evaporation in warm weather. Look for a power/mileage change at that time.

Ditto!!

AND, now that it's warmed back up some, I'm back in the 260-270 miles per tank range (20mpg, city driving, on average), even using Speedway (10% ethanol) fuel. I'm going on a trip to Atlanta this weekend, and I fully expect to be in the 300-320 miles per tank range off of any 'ol truck stop fuel along the way...

These are some awesome numbers, how are they getting these numbers? Do you guys shift at low rpms for example 3,000-4,000 rpm's because that is the only way I would get those numbers is if I grannied my car. I don't, I can't help it I get 220 miles per tank mixed driving city/hwy

Pretty much...I'm done driving like a bat out of hell. lol

BP is ethanol free?
I might have to switch brands... Too bad theres no BP near me

Only some selected BP's in Florida, I just happen to be near one and wanted to try it. I was 100% Shell V-Power until the Nitrogen, now......I just don't know. :uhh:

Its a marketing gimmick.
All gasoline has nitrogen.
It's like tooth paste being a whitner.
Formula never changed.
Just the marketing and price increase.

Gasoline doesn't 'naturally' have any nitrogen compounds.....

Gasolines contain small amounts less than .1% volume of compounds with sulfur, nitrogen and oxygen atoms in their structures (excluding added oxygenates).

Refinning destroys many nitrogen and sulfur containing compounds but some survive.

Therfore gasoline contains nitrogen compounds and Shell is using a marketing gimmick.
to promote their product.

http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/fuels/documents/Motor_Fuels_Tch_Rvw_complete.pdf

It's not just Nitrogen they've added. Nitrogen is a part of their "patented cleaning system designed to seek and destroy engine “gunk” (carbon deposits)" according to their claims.

"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines." (http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/aboutshell/media_center/news_and_press_releases/2009/nitrogen_030209.html)

It's not just Nitrogen they've added. Nitrogen is a part of their "patented cleaning system designed to seek and destroy engine “gunk” (carbon deposits)" according to their claims.

"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines." (http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa/aboutshell/media_center/news_and_press_releases/2009/nitrogen_030209.html)

"patented cleaning system designed to seek and destroy engine “gunk” (carbon deposits)"

This is marketing hype

"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel, making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines."

Take out new fuel. Nitrogen does have that affect and is present in all gasolines.

Once again marketing hype.


Have you ever taken advertising or marketing classes?

Every gasoline brand is mixed with roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases, by the fuel injection system.

This mystery mixture is called AIR.

Yes, that why someone asked earlier... Why would you add more nitrogen into the system when it comes out as NOx or No2 which they are trying to control for green house affect.

:confused: I'm surprised to see that Sunoco (USA) is not listed as a Top Tier Gasoline Retailer (http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html).

I was thinking about trying it - but :nono: after seeing this.

I expected to see BP / Amaco on that list too :confused:.

to me, it doesnt fuxking matter.

with nyc slow ass traffic(even worst since bloomberg is in the office, thanks to his bike lane and not fixing roads policy) i get shitty mpg anyway.

on my way out there are mobil and bp. both mostly have the same price, but i usually fill up at night just to be sure i will fill up at the cheaper station (every penny counts!)

:confused: I'm surprised to see that Sunoco (USA) is not listed as a Top Tier Gasoline Retailer (http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html).

I was thinking about trying it - but :nono: after seeing this.

I expected to see BP / Amaco on that list too :confused:.
I've said it before and I will say it again. Top Tier is a marketing gimmick. These companies pay to have their product tested and if it meets a certain criteria, then it gets put on the list. It will stay on the list as long as they pay the annual fee. BP/Amoco & Sunoco just decided not to pay to get their product on the list.

:confused: I'm surprised to see that Sunoco (USA) is not listed as a Top Tier Gasoline Retailer (http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html).

I was thinking about trying it - but :nono: after seeing this.

I expected to see BP / Amaco on that list too :confused:.

Just nip on up to Canada to get your Sunoco since Sunoco Canada is on the list.

if (you don't give a f**k about Top Tier Gasoline)
proceed to reading the next post :Peace: ;
else

Top Tier Gasoline may be a marketing gimmick .... , it sure does not sound like it from what I've read below. Or maybe I've been just been sucked in :lol: .

Top Tier Detergent Gasoline - "In 1994 four auto manufacturers (BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota) recognized the gasoline marketers were not putting enough detergents in their gasoline. They also recognized the U.S. EPA was not mandating a high enough minimum standard of detergents. In fact, after the EPA set a minimum standard gasoline producers reduced the amount of detergents in their gas because the standard was so low.

As a result vehicle owners were suffering reduced engine power, reduced fuel efficiency,
increased driving upsets (rough idle, stalling and surge), decreased acceleration and increased emissions.

These four automakers decided to do something about this problem because they wanted vehicle owners to have a more pleasurable experience with the vehicles they manufactured. They created their own class of gasoline called 'Top Tier Detergent Gasoline', containing a higher level of detergents, meant to keep vehicle owners happier with better engine performance and wear." (http://www.articlesbase.com/automotive-articles/top-tier-detergent-gasoline-201938.html)

So what, BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota created a "marketing gimmick" and are collecting payments from the gasoline companies that want pay them to be on the list ...... I doubt it.

A few references in this article supporting it. (http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=25861567&sort=whole&source=ihtfoceml757000)

about.com article (http://autorepair.about.com/od/generalinfo/a/110305.htm)

USA Today: Long article .... includes Ford, not in TT coalition, :stickpoke: recommends BP. (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2007-06-13-bad-gas-usat_N.htm) :wtf: .

No signs of BP/Amaco or Sunoco in that September 2007 fool.com article's list.

I'm personally not going to take any chances and will avoid any gas that's not on the list unless it's an emergency, since there are so many locally available choices on the list.

Now if I could just find another good marketing deal to wean:40oz:me off my 5% off Shell gas credit card, I'd love to do a comparison test with a different Top Tier gas.
end

The test is real, the results are real, if you have the equipment you can prove it for yourself - how is this a 'gimmick'?

The long standing test for engine deposit control is the 'BMW' test - the intake valves are weighed, then run in a real engine for a long time under load, then re-weighed.

They must have gained 'less-than-x-milligrams' of gunk.

The new Shell gas will actually remove gunk from an already gunked up valve.......far exceeding the BMW requirements to pass the test.

Do you see any competitors saying 'taint so' or 'just a gimmick'? No, they have the equipment, they've done the comparison, they know the results and they are wishing it would go away.

(I have been refining oil, gasoline, diesel and jet fuel for about twenty five years and I would be more than happy to show anyone around my refinery if you are in the far North sometime.)

S

Top Tier is a marketing gimmick in that if your fuel meets certain requirements, you are allowed to join the consortium and use the Top Tier sticker on your pump. That dosn't mean that those that are not apart of the consortium don't meet the same requirements.

Quote from the USA Today article:
Bunk, say some. "I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.

"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues. What does he buy? "I'm not brand-conscious. I go for price, as long as it doesn't have ethanol." He says ethanol cuts mileage 1% to 2% because it has a lower energy content than pure gasoline.

"I really look at these commercials and wonder, 'How do these guys justify this?' I don't see the benefits," says John Frala, who teaches auto mechanics at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif. He says he's never seen a breakdown due to engine deposits.

"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.

Top Tier is about additives in the fuel. All of the major brands have sufficient additives to keep the fuel system clean.

Top Tier is a marketing gimmick in that if your fuel meets certain requirements, you are allowed to join the consortium and use the Top Tier sticker on your pump. That dosn't mean that those that are not apart of the consortium don't meet the same requirements.

Quote from the USA Today article:
Bunk, say some. "I see these ads on TV where Shell says, 'We filled up with Shell and some other gasoline and saw a difference,' and I think it's a myth," says Thomas Darlington, engineer and consultant at Air Improvement Resource in Novi, Mich., and formerly at the EPA.

"Gasolines today are very, very clean from the standpoint of not forming engine deposits" because of the EPA and industry requirements, he argues. What does he buy? "I'm not brand-conscious. I go for price, as long as it doesn't have ethanol." He says ethanol cuts mileage 1% to 2% because it has a lower energy content than pure gasoline.

"I really look at these commercials and wonder, 'How do these guys justify this?' I don't see the benefits," says John Frala, who teaches auto mechanics at Rio Hondo College in Whittier, Calif. He says he's never seen a breakdown due to engine deposits.

"It's hype," says Dennis DeCota, executive director of the California Service Station and Automotive Repair Association. "It would be very hard to differentiate" among brands.

Top Tier is about additives in the fuel. All of the major brands have sufficient additives to keep the fuel system clean.

Major brands, maybe

but not so major, i dont think so

When it comes to cleaning agents in gasoline, fed requirements are kinda low. They cut it in 1/2 a while ago to save gas company cost isnt it?

does Shell working on carbon better (i basis this on others knowing more than i) out weight the 10% alcohol? i can get conoco 100% gas or shell with 10% alcohol.

does Shell working on carbon better (i basis this on others knowing more than i) out weight the 10% alcohol? i can get conoco 100% gas or shell with 10% alcohol.

:confused: Are you asking about Shell with 10% ethanol vs Conoco w/o ethanol ...... I'd avoid the ethanol and go with Conoco if you're car does not show any preference.

I filled the tank with 92 octane v power nitrogen enriched.

Drove about 200 miles in one trip and still have a few gallons left. (light went on just as i got home.)

This 200 miles included probly an hour or so of hard driving.

So far I am feeling good about the fuel economy with this new fuel.

Im at 220 miles of city driving on Sunoco 94 and my light is still off.

I've ALWAYS preffered v-power even before i had the rx8 in much faster cars, now i have the 8 and i dont know if its the new formula or maybe my engine just doesn't make me happy but i get 11.5 MPG with it right now with nitrogen, and i would get 14.5 MPG before this formulation.....and only ONCE after a MAF cleaning i got 17.5 that one time.... so ive always gotten between 155-180 miles to the tank (13.5 gal) with shell

Valero 190 but rough idle
Exxon 210 but the car felt sluggs

78%Nitrogen in the Air that is taken into your motor to begin with! I've been using it since it came out and have no problems.....

does shell wanna improve MPGs and save people gas money?

maybe they should put the nitrogen in tires instead...

I was getting about 18mpg will shell. I switched to AM/PM and immediately bumped up to 22 mpg. Cheaper and better mileage. Hmmm...:uhh:

Yep... Anyone remember the SoCal Dyno with CHR at Neptune Speed last year? Well, guess what? I got the highest N/A non-AP dyno results on Arco. :)

Makes sense. Better mileage=more power. :)

Yep... Anyone remember the SoCal Dyno with CHR at Neptune Speed last year? Well, guess what? I got the highest N/A non-AP dyno results on Arco. :)
I remember! I organized and hosted the event.
However...none of those results were valid. The dyno was not giving accurate info.
your argument FAILS.


OH, and it's CRH, not CHR. ;)

I remember! I organized and hosted the event.
However...none of those results were valid. The dyno was not giving accurate info.
your argument FAILS.


OH, and it's CRH, not CHR. ;)

Shh! Don't ruin my moment to shine!

NYC must be selling garbage gas.


220 miles a tank ...

I remember! I organized and hosted the event.
However...none of those results were valid. The dyno was not giving accurate info.
your argument FAILS.


OH, and it's CRH, not CHR. ;)

My God! The Dark side agrees with Jedi the knight.

At least until the new movie comes out...
Mu ha ha............. OBeeWan

NYC must be selling garbage gas.


220 miles a tank ...I got 21+ mpg on my last tank of Brooklyn Hess 87, and only about 65 miles of that was highway driving.

If you think Shell is just adding 'nitrogen' you are deluded (and not even listening to the ad.)

'Formula Shell' was based on a potassium compound, this new one is a nitrogen compound.
What part of this don't you get?

Just as an azide - C4 explosive, Amatol, TNT and most modern explosives are also based on nitrogen.........

S

If you think Shell is just adding 'nitrogen' you are deluded (and not even listening to the ad.)

'Formula Shell' was based on a potassium compound, this new one is a nitrogen compound.
What part of this don't you get?

Just as an azide - C4 explosive, Amatol, TNT and most modern explosives are also based on nitrogen.........

S

Who are you flaming at from 2 months ago?;)

Who are you flaming at from 2 months ago?;)
I think the heat has gotten to him. He finally defrosted.:mdrmed:

Holy !!!

STEALTH ! stop bringing up dead threads ! :lol:

Oh YEAH?

Well.....your momma.....

I know I am, but what are.........

S

rofl !

funny!

Just as an azide.....

I only re-opened this to make my pitiful chemical-geek joke about nitrogen compounds,

but I guess I'm the only one thought it was funny.....

S

God, I gotta getta life.

Yes, I know; 4 month revival wah wah. I feel like saying what I have to say here because there seems to be a trend of people believing that if Mazda says they haven't tested something and cannot recommend it, then it is bad. (e.g. Mazda not recommending this "special" Shell gas, ergo if car breaks Shell is liable -- this is what sparked me to reply)

Mazda's response is rather pragmatic; just like their stance on synthetic oils. "Blah blah we haven't thoroughly tested it yet (as if we plan to, ha!), so we cannot recommend it."

Saying that they CANNOT recommend it does not imply they recommend AGAINST it. Their wording of it is masking lack of knowledge -- it's a slicker way of saying "durr, we don't know". If the argument arises that the use of this gas (or synthetic oil) caused the catastrophic failure of an engine, then it is Mazda that will bear the burden of proof.

Disclaimer: I have not done a case study on the synthetic oil bit. If a warranty has been denied because of it for someone, I would be curious to know of it and the details of the case.