Nissan 370Z vs. BMW 135i, Mazda RX-8 R3, and Pontiac Solstice GXP - Comparison (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/coupes/nissan_370z_vs_bmw_135i_mazda_rx_8_r3_and_pontiac_ solstice_gxp_comparison_test__1/(page)/1)

We lost. Even though other than the engine, I don't see how 135i is better than the R3 Rx8...regardless, congrats to the new champ:

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/nis370_z_jeffallen_09_6__1/1994322-1-eng-US/nis370_z_jeffallen_09_6_gallery_image_large.jpg

Final verdict:
The Verdict: A great chassis that’s faster than its engine.

Moreover, I guess C&D are biased enough to get the BMW ahead of Mazda even though the verdict like this:
The Verdict: More of an outstanding sports coupe than a real sports car.

:squint:

IMO the rx8 had a pretty good run... lasting 7 years!

here is the link to the video
http://carvideos.caranddriver.com/?bcpid=627028702&bclid=663505567&bctid=13585927001

yeah that's what i got out of it too, 7 years and still getting praise for its overal dynamics by the car rags, and 7 years is a long time in this biz!

No shame in losing to a brand new cars like the 370Z and 135i considering the rx-8 r3 is really just a face lifted version of the same car that debuted back in 2003. BTW, C&D also had a comparo on sports car/coupe 2 yrs ago and the RX-8 (already aging back then as they mention) came out tops.

Mustang Shelby vs TT vs 350Z vs RX-8
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/sports_car_central/2007_ford_mustang_shelby_gt_vs_2007_mazda_rx_8_200 7_nissan_350z_2008_audi_tt_2_0t_comparison_test


And another... G35 vs. Mustang GT vs. RX-8
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/performance_files_tested_by_c_d/2003_ford_svt_mustang_cobra_vs_infiniti_g35_coupe_ mazda_rx_8_comparison_test+page-4.html


The Z can keep the crown warm until the new RX returns...

R3 + Pettit SC = Nuff Said. I don't know why Mazdaspeed doesn't have a FI product like TRD. TRD even makes a SC for the Echo.

I don't know why Mazdaspeed doesn't have a FI product like TRD. TRD even makes a SC for the Echo.

LOL! Echo...

Didn't you get the memo. Mazdaspeed is only allowed to use 1 engine. The turbo 2.3 MZR...duh.:uhh:

the 8 is fast enough to be fun... but its just not going to compete anymore with our anemic engine.

Interesting comparo. The RX-8 is definitely in need of a true "refreshensing". The 16X couldn't come fast enough...

That new Solstice coupe looks quite sharp - if only the build quality could match!

ahem. doesnt count.

lol stop denying ShinkTeen lol

"...this Mazda icon appears played out."

A bit harsh? Perhaps, but among these juiced up sports cars...and esp.. evident when on a track...there is no amount of "handling finesse" or "fun factor" that can disguise the anemic power & torqueless nature of this current rotary car. Just my opinion.

Sadly, I think this was about as succinct & honest a comparo as I've read in a long time. The bell tolls for Mazda's rotary...and they better get their act together ...and soon.

awaiting 16x in rx7.....

That new Solstice coupe looks quite sharp - if only the build quality could match!

and see I thought the Solstice was the uglest of the group... and its a group includes some pretty ugly cars.

I think they should have used the GXP with the optional Z0K suspension package since they used the R3 version of the RX8 and the Track package on the 370Z, it would probably have done better in the handling department.

And what's with that stupid "got to have it factor". That's the downright stupidist thing ever to put into a comparison. I guess they didn't learn last time when they compared the Mustang GT against the GTO. The Mustang won the comparison by one point due to the "got to have it factor", yet the GTO crushed it in every performance category. They also released a statement saying they got more hatemail for that one article then they did in their entire history.

Mazda it's one generation behind the competitors (7 years old)

Not bad......it'been typed many times, but rx-8 needs more power

I'd have to agree with the order. Love the new 370z.

Not surprised at the final outcome, but the RX-8 is still the fastest through the lane change. :) What a world-class chassis, still beats some of today's best cars in pure handling. Just goes to show you how far ahead of its time that it was back in 2003!

But in terms of power, it is completely outclassed now. That 135i is just WOW in terms of acceleration, and not just from a dead stop, but 5-60 and top gear 30-50 and 50-70. I actually place more importance on 5-60/30-50/50-70 times than 0-60 times because they give a better idea of how the car performs in daily driving activities. And in terms of daily driving, I think the 135i definitely shines. I'm no fan of the 135i, but I have to say it is probably the best all-around in that comparo.

of all those cars, I would buy the 135i probably. Put a couple hundred dollars in it and you have a 12 second car.

and see I thought the Solstice was the uglest of the group... and its a group includes some pretty ugly cars.

agree

I like handling so much I just got me a 93' Miata to complement my underpowered sports car arsenal. (Traded the 240sx for it)

This review didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know: The RX-8 is still one of the world's great steering and handling cars, which is why I want it. I can make it faster (enough that I'm satisfied), but nothing you ever do to any of the other cars in that article will make them the equal of the RX-8 in handling. Their comment about how incredibly stiff the RX-8 chassis is was telling, as well (keeping in mind how old the design is, especially). That article just makes me want the RX-8 R3 even more.

Somehow I doubt the 16X will be the Messiah for the rotary engine and therefore the rx-n. Mazda quoted about 270hp to 300hp. That's pretty pedestrian in today's sports coupe/car arena where even a Hyundai can deliver that. In a few year's time the 400Z will show up with 400hp while the 135i will follow suit.
So perhaps folks need to just accept the fact that rotary cars will always be less powerful than its typical rivals but makes up for it in other areas like handling and aesthetics. :dunno:

not bad at all, we need the 16x NOW

Somehow I doubt the 16X will be the Messiah for the rotary engine and therefore the rx-n. Mazda quoted about 270hp to 300hp. That's pretty pedestrian in today's sports coupe/car arena where even a Hyundai can deliver that. In a few year's time the 400Z will show up with 400hp while the 135i will follow suit.
So perhaps folks need to just accept the fact that rotary cars will always be less powerful than its typical rivals but makes up for it in other areas like handling and aesthetics. :dunno:

I agree, but I think the biggest thing the rotary has going against it is the MPGs. The fact that there are already 300+ hp cars out there that can get close to 30 highway works against Mazda. It will be interesting to see what numbers the 16x puts out, but a fairly large improvement in MPG almost seems necessary at least for highway driving.

As far as performance, I really think if the 8 as it stands today with the 13b had another 50lbs of torque, it would be perfect. As for the 16x, I'd say if they could add 50hp, 50 lbs of torque and subtract 100lbs from the weight of the car it would be perfect.

280 hp and 300 is plenty fast for NA with a car that still handles like a beast.


judging a car based on its Horses i think is like judging a girl on her Breasts alone, your not looking at what makes her beautiful.


....damn... thats some deep shit im writing that down.

I agree, but I think the biggest thing the rotary has going against it is the MPGs. The fact that there are already 300+ hp cars out there that can get close to 30 highway works against Mazda. It will be interesting to see what numbers the 16x puts out, but a fairly large improvement in MPG almost seems necessary at least for highway driving.

As far as performance, I really think if the 8 as it stands today with the 13b had another 50lbs of torque, it would be perfect. As for the 16x, I'd say if they could add 50hp, 50 lbs of torque and subtract 100lbs from the weight of the car it would be perfect.

300 + hp close to 30mpg?? what cars i'm just curious :uhh:

C&D just likes to leg hump BMW until the bone marrow shows... <shrugs> that's always been their angle on every review...

What the hell does this title even mean?

and see I thought the Solstice was the uglest of the group... and its a group includes some pretty ugly cars.

agree

IDK . . . the new Z has some fugly "eyes" about it. Looks like it's surprised.

Somehow I doubt the 16X will be the Messiah for the rotary engine and therefore the rx-n. Mazda quoted about 270hp to 300hp. That's pretty pedestrian in today's sports coupe/car arena where even a Hyundai can deliver that. In a few year's time the 400Z will show up with 400hp while the 135i will follow suit.
So perhaps folks need to just accept the fact that rotary cars will always be less powerful than its typical rivals but makes up for it in other areas like handling and aesthetics. :dunno:

The 16X willl not be competitive HP-wise, but what Mazda rotary ever has been?

As you say, it'll make up for it. Aside from the rotary, Mazda's DNA is tied to light cars, and they work at that hard. Mazda success has been tied to making their car's weight complement the engine. Being eco-trendy, Mazda deserves kudos for it's dedication to lightness, but their DNA is really after the handling benefits from lightness.

A 270-300HP, 2800lb 16X..with RX-8 or better handling? Sign me up....I'd "accept those facts" with pleasure and enjoy the overweight competition in every turn! :yesnod:

..

280 hp and 300 is plenty fast for NA with a car that still handles like a beast.


judging a car based on its Horses i think is like judging a girl on her Breasts alone, your not looking at what makes her beautiful.


....damn... thats some deep shit im writing that down.

I think I see what you're saying... you gotta check out her ass too before you can judge her.

^:rofl:

Yeah, if she's club footed w/tree trunk legs and a horribly huge ass, the rack doesn't matter much.

And just reiterating a point made a few hundred thousand times before.

It's not about horsepower. It's about power to weight ratio and balance. If the 16x has 270hp and is put on a 3200lb car with 55/45 balance people will be disappointed.

If it has 270hp and is put on a 2700lb car with 50/50 balance and a fully adjustable suspension it'll destroy the cars listed in almost every category.

All of those cars make some significant sacrifices in order to get the straight line speed or the luxury branding. Mazda has an opportunity to produce something that can crush them in 'contests' like this one.

IF the 16X, and IF it makes it to a production car, IMO it will be in an ultra Stiff chassis (AKA MX-5 ) and above all a lightweight body totaling no more than 2500 lb's...

Then you will see 300HP and Better Fuel economy, but forget it if you think a 1.6 litre is going to have a Hugely improved MPG over the 1.3 RX-8, you will see 20-25% on Gentle Cycle!,
Hard or Heavy Cycle you will see next to no MPG improvement.

Japan is now in a depression, so their car market is shot to pieces.

At the moment I can't see a viable position for ANY new RX~

...
Japan is now in a depression, so their car market is shot to pieces.

At the moment I can't see a viable position for ANY new RX~

The only strange thing is apparently many car makers think that similar cars are just the ticket right now, and in many price ranges. For example:

- Caymen / Caymen S
- 370Z
- Genesis Coupe
- TT

These are revised or new to market. Poor timing? Bad planning? Or just smart marketing to get buyer excitment level up to buying again? A competitive sports car image car is what Mazda is missing now. If they don't have that, what do they have...Toyota clones? and I doubt the MS3 is a truly a player against any of the above.

i didnt know they even sold that version of the solistice. nissan has been making improvements to the x almost every year, well deserved.

Yes, the S2 RX-8 was already planned and in production...

So was all the other cars you listed..

Would a car maker today take a risk?...I don't know.

Its' obvious Honda, Subaru and many others pulling out of motorsport to save $$ss.

Honda scrapped the NSX and new S2000 before final production.

Will Toyota and Subaru bring out their new MX-5 beater?..now?

of all those cars, I would buy the 135i probably. Put a couple hundred dollars in it and you have a 12 second car.

More than that...you'll need drag radials and/or an upgrade from the pegleg to get into the 12s.

I still can't believe BMW sells the 135i & 335i with an open diff!!!

280 hp and 300 is plenty fast for NA with a car that still handles like a beast.


judging a car based on its Horses i think is like judging a girl on her Breasts alone, your not looking at what makes her beautiful.


....damn... thats some deep shit im writing that down.

LOL That is pretty deep.

Gotta look at the whole package first...:lol:

Wait a second, since when does Shirtless Wonder (ShinkaTween) have any authority to speak about breasts and/or women?!?! :uhh::fruit:;)

16X + FI = King Again.

Maybe they can fit the next RX with its 16X with one of them low pressure turbo's for improved efficiency standard, and then also offer a more aggressive turbo setting as an option for competitive level power.

Sound feasible?

i didnt know they even sold that version of the solistice.

It's the 09, out now (or very soon) - Solstice Coupe w/Targa top.

IF the 16X, and IF it makes it to a production car, IMO it will be in an ultra Stiff chassis (AKA MX-5 ) and above all a lightweight body totaling no more than 2500 lb's...

Then you will see 300HP and Better Fuel economy, but forget it if you think a 1.6 litre is going to have a Hugely improved MPG over the 1.3 RX-8, you will see 20-25% on Gentle Cycle!,
Hard or Heavy Cycle you will see next to no MPG improvement.



you forget the DI

you forget the DI

Me No.

Rotary DI is new territory, I have not seen exact figures showing Fuel improvements , mine is an "experienced guess", so called improvements Mazda has made with fuel economy over the last 30 years has not lived up to the hype....ie it is not quite what they say in real driving, then again is any car makers claims.
Do you have any news about DI, I have heard nothing for some time.

To be in that crowd says alot about the 8. As others pointed out, the 8 is relatively the same car it was in 2003, while the Z and 135 are brand new models with new technology and putting down considerably more power.

I do agree with others in that if Mazda doesnt improve the rotary on the hp front, doom will come real soon.

Me No.

Rotary DI is new territory, I have not seen exact figures showing Fuel improvements , mine is an "experienced guess", so called improvements Mazda has made with fuel economy over the last 30 years has not lived up to the hype....ie it is not quite what they say in real driving, then again is any car makers claims.
Do you have any news about DI, I have heard nothing for some time.

There was an SAE paper on this back in the late 90's. It did show both an increase in power and drop in fuel consumption. I don't have the paper in front of me now. Maybe I can dig that up. I want to say ~10% improvement in both fuel consumption and power. It was a very different design from the current DI concept in the 16x so I'm not sure if the comparison holds but it's safe to say there is a benefit to this.

My original bet on the 16x is 287hp at the flywheel.

Interesting review, but mainly because of the cars in comparison. I actually finished watching it thinking another angle of conclusion could have been drawn. All of those reviewed are performance cars that share considerable overlap and performance but off distinctly different styling and power delivery/handling characteristics. In fact to me, these qualities are far more distinct than the performance figures betweent the cars. In short, any of them would be a great choice, it's simply what characteristic of the car most appeals to you. We live in an age where there is plenty variety AND bang for your buck; the buyer is spoilt for choice like never before.

300 + hp close to 30mpg?? what cars i'm just curious :uhh:

the new vette's with over 400hp

since FI has been now proven to be a fairly solid mod--temps under control etc. a s.c low boost R3 as I have said before--would fly off the showroom floor. and it will get 23-24 mpg.
But Mazda is not going to do it. rx8---- maybe one/two more years if things dont change.
OD

OD,

And all to do with cost, does the SC or FI (small turbo) create any emission issues?

Put the 16x in this and I'd buy it. If they don't do something fairly drastic I'll either put a 3 rotor in my 8 or buy an M3 for the track. Slowness isn't serving anymore...

the new z looks like an overfed puffer fish

I like the 370Z technical spec's but it still look ugly.

i wouldnt be seen in it.

I rather buy a Cayman S

the title will be back in mazda's court after the 16X debuts.

sc with cat passes emission tail pipe tests
OD

One good thing about RX-8 "competitors" getting even faster: as fewer "speed/power/torque" people buy the 8 in the future, an increasingly higher proportion of 8 owners will be drivers who place a premium on handling & that wonderful thing that can't be measured: 'feel'. As the "how fast can it go" guys drift away, the crowd here will, over time, skew older and wiser; guys who—like Mazda—'get' what a sports car oughta be.

Interestingly, where the other cars in the test had 0-60 times of 4.8 and 5.2 sec, the 8 still did 6.3; plenty fast for me. (Hell, an MX-5 is plenty fast for me.) And in the subjective 'Final Results,' the 8 won in 'Steering Feel', 'Brake Feel', and 'Handling'. And it tied for first in 'Fun to Drive,' beating two other cars. That's what I want.

One good thing about RX-8 "competitors" getting even faster: as fewer "speed/power/torque" people buy the 8 in the future, an increasingly higher proportion of 8 owners will be drivers who place a premium on handling & that wonderful thing that can't be measured: 'feel'. As the "how fast can it go" guys drift away, the crowd here will, over time, skew older and wiser; guys who—like Mazda—'get' what a sports car oughta be.

Interestingly, where the other cars in the test had 0-60 times of 4.8 and 5.2 sec, the 8 still did 6.3; plenty fast for me. (Hell, an MX-5 is plenty fast for me.) And in the subjective 'Final Results,' the 8 won in 'Steering Feel', 'Brake Feel', and 'Handling'. And it tied for first in 'Fun to Drive,' beating two other cars. That's what I want.

I would venture to say the RX-8 is a standard, if not legendary in how well it handles, the feel, etc. But a sports car is a sum of its parts, not a single trait.

The lack of speed/power/torque that puts people off as you say...and is sending many off to other brands is not because how fast the RX-8 gets to 60mph, ~6 sec is ok, not too far of the mark for ~30K. The real disconnect is in the car's power delivery personality beyond that barely useful performance metric.

Namely, there's a way too obvious lack of noticeable oomph in upper gears (4th-5th-6th); that feeds into a lack of high speed omph, as evidenced by the 0-200 km/hr (124mph) times that are NEARLY FIVE TIMES (4.6x to be exact) the 0-62 times (62km/hr). That's glacial.

Of course this is mainly an impediment on track, but there, the true lack of motive power is oh so evident. On the street, it shows in slowish passing ability, again ok, but could (should) be better.

I would agree with you that fewer and fewer will stay with Mazda's rotary cars, but those that do will...not because they value handling to the exclusion of other sports car attributes, rather because of the low prices (the market is showing a distinct discount for the RX-8), or they are too enthralled with the rotary engine to switch. Such is the case with addictions, against all reason addicts continue with something that increasingly does not hold the value proposition it did originally. For the true believers in today's market, that's at least one real benefit.

Come on now Mazda, time to get ahead now.

Or all of those loyal, sentimental Rotary Heads will be Nissan owners going into the next decade.

One good thing about RX-8 "competitors" getting even faster: as fewer "speed/power/torque" people buy the 8 in the future, an increasingly higher proportion of 8 owners will be drivers who place a premium on handling & that wonderful thing that can't be measured: 'feel'. As the "how fast can it go" guys drift away, the crowd here will, over time, skew older and wiser; guys who—like Mazda—'get' what a sports car oughta be.

Interestingly, where the other cars in the test had 0-60 times of 4.8 and 5.2 sec, the 8 still did 6.3; plenty fast for me. (Hell, an MX-5 is plenty fast for me.) And in the subjective 'Final Results,' the 8 won in 'Steering Feel', 'Brake Feel', and 'Handling'. And it tied for first in 'Fun to Drive,' beating two other cars. That's what I want.

Spot On again NY.

Like the Miata/MX-5 it has nothing to do about power/speed...and it is still the largest selling roadster in the World.
'
Mazda have perfected that 'go-cart feel' when driving/cornering.

MY S2 8 is always plenty fast enough for me, with the higher diff ratio I don't have any problems overtaking.

In my state the way the law is with speed, stop light/speed cameras, laser guns, fixed and portable cameras, patrol car cameras, the areas where you can really put your foot down are very limited.
Unless you want to lose your license and pay heavy fines like 40K (24MPH) above the limit it is $510.00 and 4 demerit points.

Namely, there's a way too obvious lack of noticeable oomph in upper gears (4th-5th-6th); that feeds into a lack of high speed omph, as evidenced by the 0-200 km/hr (124mph) times that are NEARLY FIVE TIMES (4.6x to be exact) the 0-62 times (62km/hr). That's glacial.


Try using the excellent 6spd gears... it works wonders in passing cars on the highway. Clutch in, switch to desired gear, blip the throttle to (it's ok, it won't mind) , spin that rotor to 9000rpm (it's OK too, it doesn't grenade like its piston friends), clutch out and off you go. Works for me so far. :eyetwitch
This car is not for the lazy, unfortunately there are just too many of them in this continent.

Just got my issue of C&D. I was blown away to see that they were even covering the 8, period.

I'll be quite honest, with the 8 continuing the use the same 230HP rotary engine making 160 lb-ft tq engine for all 7 years of existence, i'm actually quite shocked it didn't get last place. C&D and R&T both are rather obsessed with HP, and with it seeming so anemic in comparison, i was happy to hear it just didn't place last.

For the billionth time mazda, do something with either/OR the HP/fuel economy. No one wants to get 600HP fuel economy out of a 200 HP car. I liked the RX-8, but i'd be lying if I said that the lack of power and MPG didn't have anything at all to do with me selling mine. I loved the looks, the smooth 6sp tranny and the way it handled, but that's only 1/2 the battle with sport coupes. It runs with a faster crowd, and mazda should have been modifying it's engine so. The first few years it was around were understandable, but to see that the 2nd generation 7 years later didn't even touch the engine is borderline ignorant of Mazda. The day they throw a stock turbo on the 8 will be the day i'll be back in line to possibly buy another one brand new.

The R3 RX-8 is a new model...

Why is it that the Miata/MX-5 continues to be C&D's favorite Roadster when there are other more powerful cars with more HP and Torque, you say they are obsessed with HP.

This has been said to death and I don't know why some of us continue to say this but Mazda have done ALL they can with the 13B, the RENESIS was the culmination of all their knowledge in refining it to the numbers it gets now for a NA Rotary.

You know why Mazda could not turbo the RENESIS, partly to do with side seal reliability, but the main reasons were, 1, Emissions and 2, the extra cost of a mild turbo (even IF they could have used one).

I think Mazda acknowledged the fact that the competition would run away from them in the HP game, that is why the 16X showed up, a promising 290HP 1.6 litre but that was only in 2007.

You won't see it until they can perfect DI as a NA only Fuel Injected 1.6 would achieve even worse MPG.

Since that time we have heard nothing about the progress of the DI 16X, they were testing here a year or so ago but IMO it is still some time away...if ever unfortunately because of the "World Economic Meltdown".

BTW, Yes, we have seen reliability issues with the earlier RX-8's, and Mazda have upgraded over 60 mechanical changes to the Series II including the RENESIS.

It shows Mazda do listen to owners and responds to Warranty Repairs by on going modifications.

Regardless of what many may think (particularly our younger members) Mazda can't always change what others Makes can do with banger engines, I think Mazda knows what they are doing and what they are allowed to do in our Eco friendly world.

Emissions are, and always will be the achilles heal for the rotary until an alternative fuel 'AKA' Hydrogen is mainstream.

Unfortunately in the last few months I have been more pessimistic when it comes to anything Rotary as Mazda just won't risk any more losses with the rotary, it has already cost them way too much already.

At this point I don't know why they wouldn't release the 16x into a production car. The engine already exists and is likely just going through longevity testing and stuff to get the kinks out. I'm sure they also have some sort of design ready to go for the car it will go into. I know the economy sucks but after all the money Mazda has already poured into this, why quit now? It's not as if the entire 16x project just started.

Doesn't matter.. people will still buy the RX8, regardless of what C&D or MT or any other car publication says. I had an opportunity to buy a 350z and a G35 and I considered a BMW. But I bought my RX8.. It's in the same nostalgia and realm as a Harley..at least to me. I'm going to run this thing til it dies and when it does, I'll buy another.

Doesn't matter.. people will still buy the RX8, regardless of what C&D or MT or any other car publication says. I had an opportunity to buy a 350z and a G35 and I considered a BMW. But I bought my RX8.. It's in the same nostalgia and realm as a Harley..at least to me. I'm going to run this thing til it dies and when it does, I'll buy another.

Ditto.

If I wanted a fast car, I'd buy one. I want a car with the soul that screams to me. Hence my RX-8 purchase.

Doesn't matter.. people will still buy the RX8, regardless of what C&D or MT or any other car publication says. I had an opportunity to buy a 350z and a G35 and I considered a BMW. But I bought my RX8.. It's in the same nostalgia and realm as a Harley..at least to me. I'm going to run this thing til it dies and when it does, I'll buy another.

according to the sales numbers, its not "people" its "very few people"

according to the sales numbers, its not "people" its "very few people"

Well, since ALL car manufacturers are in a sales slump, I figure that would include Mazda as well. If you look at 'what' people are buying, I guarantee you any 'sports' related cars' sales are down. Premium gasoline is not very popular right now.

Well, since ALL car manufacturers are in a sales slump, I figure that would include Mazda as well. If you look at 'what' people are buying, I guarantee you any 'sports' related cars' sales are down. Premium gasoline is not very popular right now.

Well, at least premium gasoline is cheaper than 6 months ago!

I dont think the rx8 is perfect at all, but if I had to choose a replacement for my car right now it would be tough, VERY TOUGH

Well, since ALL car manufacturers are in a sales slump, I figure that would include Mazda as well. If you look at 'what' people are buying, I guarantee you any 'sports' related cars' sales are down. Premium gasoline is not very popular right now.

Jan 2009 sales figures show in the US Nissan sold 10x more 370z's then mazda did RX8's

sorry... just the facts

Jan 2009 sales figures show in the US Nissan sold 10x more 370z's then mazda did RX8's

sorry... just the facts

c'mon man..it's a COMPLETLY new model very awaited...the investments of nissan into 370 are 20x the investments of Mazda into '09 rx-8 or more....

the "Mazda's 370z" it's the rumored rx-7 16x. (if we'll see)

Jan 2009 sales figures show in the US Nissan sold 10x more 370z's then mazda did RX8's

sorry... just the facts

Fact! Disco record sales went up 400% in the years 1977-1979. If this trend continues... oh yeah!


Fuck 'em. I don't need a magazine to tell me I like my car.

Fact! Disco record sales went up 400% in the years 1977-1979. If this trend continues... oh yeah!


Fuck 'em. I don't need a magazine to tell me I like my car.

I wanna say Fuck 'em too but the fact is...Mazda needs sales volume to generate enough profit / interest to further the business case, especially in these kind of environments...

I do believe Mazda will hang on to the "be different" kind of philosophy though...

I think Mazda is like the Pre iPod era Apple Inc lol

We just need a "iPod" engine to break out. OR maybe the new hydrogen powered thing, which rotary engine will have an advantage over piston ones.

In a 3000+ lb car the rotary is already history. Bla bla bla we all love the rotary and everything about it, but facts is facts. No car company can keep a production of a vehicle profitable on a few measily thousand cars a year, at least not in a <$40K market.

Peps & mags alike complain that ~300hp is "meh..ok..." in sports car reveiws nowadays, competition is ever present, and increasingly better with each new car introduced. $28K Hyundai coupes w/300+ hp don't help either, as now it's just not the higher priced cars that are beating up on Mazda's territory.

People love 'different' technologies, but when it comes to monthly payments, ordinary and predictable, meaning pistons and turbos, mostly get the sports car down payments.

Fact or not, sounds like some of you are getting bent out of shape for nothing. It's just a car, if you don't like it anymore or want it, get something else. Simple.

Fact or not, sounds like some of you are getting bent out of shape for nothing. It's just a car, if you don't like it anymore or want it, get something else. Simple.

and while you've got the 1-sided strongarm cliche' going on, i'll add that i did just that.

miss the car from time to time, but i'm certainly not losing any sleep over it.

".sports coupes cum sports cars...."

did they mean to spell it that way???

".sports coupes cum sports cars...."

did they mean to spell it that way???

Latin, a la Magna Cum Laude

It means with

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=latin+%22cum%22

and while you've got the 1-sided strongarm cliche' going on, i'll add that i did just that.

miss the car from time to time, but i'm certainly not losing any sleep over it.

Nope, no homer here. I've just been down this road before. It happened with the Camaro, the Firebird and the Mustang. It happened with the RX7 and now it's happening with the RX8. I stand by my point...it's just a car. Get what you want.

Definitely agree with most of the comments on here. Even after 8 years, the RX-8 still gets compliments on the handling. If only its engine put out more oomph. As we all know the 8 needs a major refresh and hopefully it'll be showing up soon. Although with the new Mazda styling it may not have a front-end it may have a big gaping mouth.

Mazda RX-8 has just had a refresh that is not even a year old...

as much as C&D loves leg humping BMW, it's amazing the 1-series only came in 2nd place...

yet, if u read the article carefully, you'll notice that they very wittingly compliment the rx-8 and elevate it above everything else and then immediately backhandedly slam it down to hell... it's almost like u finish reading the review and dont' quite get whether they loved it or hated it... maybe their reviewers have bi-polar disorder...

that said, imo, the 370z is still one fugly turtle shell of a car- no matter how well it performs... the more time u spend looking at it, the fuglier it gets.

As much as I hate the 350Z, the 370Z has one heck of an inviting interior. Sat in one at the Cleveland Auto Show, and was completely amazing at how nice it was. I owned an 8 for almost 2 years, and it made it's interior feel like a GM to me. Nissan definately has did their homework!

C+D was dead on in its evaluation. I know there are alot of 30ish guys on here that want to put their 2.2 kids(care of the man Jeremy from Top Gear), and thats all good and well, but why can't owners face up to the fact that the car cannot keep up with the cars it used to be compared with. Saying it has a great chassis is getting redudant, and outdated to say the least. The RX series for the last 20 some odd years has been a sports car brand, and its taking a departure from that tradition. The competition however, have put serious development into all aspects of their cars... chassis, engine, interior and exterior. Mazda got cheap, did a face lift with cosmetic upgrades and a few bolt on suspension upgrades. Mazda is still using plastics reminiscent of a Chevy Cavelier quality for the dash, and a powerplant that barely pushes the car faster then a Civic Si.

I love my 8, but I do realize the flaws in the design, which every car has, and I appreciate whats good. But then, I don't bleed rotary. They are 100% right about how they judged the 8, and its a fair overall test. Good job C and D

my other comment for all you who are oh so content with the car as it is...
The RX-8 is already a pretty uncommon car. You don't see alot because it is a niche car. Thats small sales. And further in that not even all of those who like rotary engines are happy with that it is now, and seeing the rotary continually getting beat on the track, and in tests (dont give any examples about 3 rotor because the fact is you cannot walk into any showrooms and buy it) how long do you think the car will be around for you to buy? Mazda isn't Toyota, having money to throw away on a fun little pet project. It needs something that will be in all kinds of motorsports, so that it sells, and helps justify its existance.

Somehow I doubt the 16X will be the Messiah for the rotary engine and therefore the rx-n. Mazda quoted about 270hp to 300hp.

Uh oh, Mazda standards! 220-250WHP :lol:

Mazda isn't Toyota, having money to throw away on a fun little pet project. It needs something that will be in all kinds of motorsports, so that it sells, and helps justify its existance.

Looking at the sales figures, one could very easily argue this point. The 8 hasn't exactly been flying off lots since about...ohh...05? If what you're saying is completely true, how exactly has the model survived for the last 4 years? Mazda loves it's claim to fame as the only company still producing rotaries, and that's the only reason I can see as to why they still do. If they've slummed along this far on sales that have been through the mud, i'm not gonna be at all shocked to see the car continue to be manufactered. I agree that the powerplant could use some randitions, but all said and done, someone over at Mazdas obviously got a chubby for the rotary. As long as they're still around on payroll, there also will be the 8.

Like the Miata/MX-5 it has nothing to do about power/speed...and it is still the largest selling roadster in the World.
'

Does "price point" mean anything? How many other new coupe drop top sports cars can you pick up with an MSRP of $20,000? The story holds true for NA and NB gen miatas as well...

I'm going to have to agree with spin9k on this one - sure power and speed are not everything in a sports car but like it or not, market standards are, and always will be present. If a manufacturer's car falls below a category's standards, the car isn't likely to be competitive.

Sure, people love the car, myself included, but a small group loving a car that may be "slowest in class" is not going to help sales much.

I think I had this debate with NYC a while ago, pertaining to power :lol2:

Looking at the sales figures, one could very easily argue this point. The 8 hasn't exactly been flying off lots since about...ohh...05? If what you're saying is completely true, how exactly has the model survived for the last 4 years? Mazda loves it's claim to fame as the only company still producing rotaries, and that's the only reason I can see as to why they still do. If they've slummed along this far on sales that have been through the mud, i'm not gonna be at all shocked to see the car continue to be manufactered. I agree that the powerplant could use some randitions, but all said and done, someone over at Mazdas obviously got a chubby for the rotary. As long as they're still around on payroll, there also will be the 8.

I never said Mazda didn't like to have a claim to fame as the only rotary producer. But speaking purely from a business perspective, you cannot produce a car solely for a small audience in the price world that the 8 is in. Ferrari can do it, because they charge so much for the car that they still make money. Mazda is not in that market. They are in the market where comparisons and side by side tests make or break a company. As for why the Rotary is still around despite not having any big developments is because Ford (owner of Mazda if you didn't know lol) cannot afford to update it on gasoline, and Ford is using Mazda and the hydrogen rotary as its only big development for alternative power sources.

Ford knows that Hybrid technology is not a permanent solution, and right now not worth its cost when compared with its gains.

This is purely a speculation, but if Mazda can perfect the hydrogen program, the way Honda is working on it, but produce a much more powerful engine than the Honda engine, that gives Ford a big heads up when the world leaves gasoline engines behind. Ford will back the Hydrogen Rotary, and finally put themselves back on top of the automotive world

Provided they survive hahahahahaha

Where do you get off saying Mazda got cheap with the 09 RX-8, on the contrary Mazda have done over 60 mechanical changes and improvements over the Series 1.

They addressed almost all of the owner complaints that were warranted...the ONLY one they dd not change was the engine's size or power, many owners of SI's who have changed up to S2 (and R3's) are very happy with the gearing and performance, some even saying fuel economy has improved????..don't know about that one.

We know that the 16X is on the cards, when and if it shows itself is another matter, certainly not in the present climate.

The Series II was well into development and scheduled for production way before the "World Meltdown", I guess Mazda thought it would boost along sales for a few more years, well that has not happened like it has not happened for EVERY other car maker out there.

Mazda really have never been a maker that has to one-up because the opposition does.
The RX-7 was a 13B for all of it's life (apart from the first 1979 12A), we then got Fuel Injection then a turbo, but still a 13B), the 7 lasted with 6 series.

Mazda are not going to launch the 16X if they can't improve on fuel economy/emissions.

It is a very safe bet that we will see it WHEN there is an ALL new RX~ model released in a few years.... and that is a big IF and WHEN.

BTW, Ford no longer controls what Mazda does now...I have mixed feelings about that one as I think Mazda paid too much money to Ford and I believe Mazda will be more "cautious" than ever when it comes to making a car that will have only limited sales appeal.

All I wish for is the car market bounced back very soon and fast.

BTW, Ford no longer controls what Mazda does now...I have mixed feelings about that one as I think Mazda paid too much money to Ford and I believe Mazda will be more "cautious" than ever when it comes to making a car that will have only limited sales appeal.

Actually Ford still has a controlling interest on the Mazda BOD with the highest stock holder rights. With Sumitomo bank following Ford's Mazda board member suit. The controlling interest is still there.

Mazda hopefully can still use some of Fords leverage for parts though. That was the key there. Getting parts from suppliers at Ford corp pricing was a big thing helping to bring Mazda back from the brink it was at 12 years ago.

Representative Director and Chairman of the Board ***Hisakazu Imaki
Representative Director; President and CEO*** Takashi Yamanouchi
Representative Director; Executive Vice President*** Philip G. Spender
Representative Director; Executive Vice President*** Masaharu Yamaki
Representative Director; Senior Managing Executive Officer and CFO*** Kiyoshi Ozaki
Director; Senior Managing Executive Officer*** Seita Kanai
Director; Senior Managing Executive Officer***Masazumi Wakayama
Corporate Auditor (Full time)*** Junichi Yamamoto
Corporate Auditor (Full time)*** Shigeki Wakamatsu
Corporate Auditor*** Kenichi Komatsu
Corporate Auditor*** Ichiro Sakai
Corporate Auditor*** Isao Akaoka

BOLD: Stands for the Executive Officers who also hold the post of Director.

There is now only ONE Ford EO that is on the Board. (P G Spender)

There is now only ONE Ford EO that is on the Board. (P G Spender)Yep, that's what I remembered from last year's announcement about Ford selling off 20%. 2 Ford guys stepped down and one remained on the board.

Senior Managing Executive Officer***Yuji Harada
Senior Managing Executive Officer*** Nobuhiro Hayama
Managing Executive Officer; President and CEO,Mazda Motor of America, Inc. (MNAO)*** James J. O' Sullivan
Managing Executive Officer*** Akira Marumoto
Managing Executive Officer*** Keishi Egawa
Managing Executive Officer***Toru Oka
Managing Executive Officer; President and CEO, Mazda Motor Europe GmbH ***Jeffrey H. Guyton
Managing Executive Officer*** Nobuhide Inamoto
Managing Executive Officer*** Yasuto Tatsuta
Managing Executive Officer***Satoshi Tachikake
Managing Executive Officer*** Hirotaka Kanazawa
Managing Executive Officer*** Masamichi Kogai
Managing Executive Officer*** Koji Kurosawa
Managing Executive Officer*** Kozo Kawakami
Managing Executive Officer*** Yuji Nakamine
Executive Officer*** Shiro Mikami
Executive Officer*** Noriaki Yamada
Executive Officer*** Toshinori Kusuhashi
Executive Officer*** Hiroshi Yamamoto
Executive Officer*** Tatsuji Ikeda
Executive Officer*** Minoru Mitsuda
Executive Officer*** Masafumi Nakano
Executive Officer*** Kazuki Imai
Executive Officer*** Kiyotaka Shobuda
Executive Officer*** Kiyoshi Fujiwara
Executive Officer*** Masahiro Moro
Executive Officer*** Akira Koga


Yes Ford are the largest Single Shareholder (13%), but they don't have controlling interest no more with only one board member instead of 3.

Executive (Board) Officers Resigned.
Daniel T. Morris
David E. Friedman

General Managers Also Resigned.
David F. Stickel
Anthony S. Pastor

Their comment about how incredibly stiff the RX-8 chassis is was telling, as well (keeping in mind how old the design is, especially).

I was doing some Lotus Elise research (don't ask) and came across this: http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1158

Scroll down, check the RX-8 number, and compare it to the rest of the numbers. I was amazed.

Interesting information on Torsion Rigidity, I am not surprised about the RX-8...I must check the RX-8 book, I am sure there is something about TR..

Here are the numbers posted on the Maserati Forum..

Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
Lotus Esprit SE Turbo 5,850 Nm/deg
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg

Rolls Royce Phantom: 40,000 Nm/deg
BMW E90: Supposedly 25% higher than E46, look above
BMW Z4: 21Hz... :scratch: Now I just need to figure out how to convert that...
Audi A2: 11900 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
BMW Z4: 14,500 Nm/deg
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg


************************************************** *************************

More info..
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=10961

************************************************** *************************

REORDERED.....:)

Rolls Royce Phantom: 40,000 Nm/deg
Ferrari F50: 34,600 Nm/deg|
Mazda Rx-8: 30,000 Nm/deg
Koenigsegg CC-8: 28,100 Nm/deg
Ford GT: 27,100 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Coupe 27,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996: 27,000 Nm/deg
Pagani Zonda C12 S 26,300 Nm/deg
Golf V GTI: 25,000 Nm/deg
Audi A8: 25,000 Nm/deg
Mini (2003) 24,500 Nm/deg
Lambo Gallardo: 23000 Nm/deg
BMW E90: Supposedly 25% higher than E46, 22500
Jaguar X-Type Sedan 22,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2005 21,000 Nm/deg
Chrysler Crossfire 20,140 Nm/deg
Volvo S60 20,000 Nm/deg
Lambo Murcielago 20,000 Nm/deg
Audi TT Coupe 19,000 Nm/deg
Volvo S80: 18,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg
Volkswagen Fox: 17,941 Nm/deg
Ford GT40 MkI 17,000 Nm/deg
Jaguar X-Type Estate 16,319 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang 2003 16,000 Nm/deg
Aston Martin DB9 Convertible 15,500 Nm/deg
Mazda Rx-7: ~15,000 Nm/deg
BMW Z4: 14,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo (2000) 13,500 Nm/deg
McLaren F1 13,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000 Nm/deg
Porsche 959 12,900 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500 Nm/deg
Audi A2: 11900 Nm/deg
Porsche 911 Turbo 996 Convertible: 11,600 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise 111s 11,000 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Touring 10,900 Nm/deg
Lotus Elise S2 Exige (2004): 10,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500 Nm/deg
Renault Sport Spider: 10,000 Nm/degree
Audi TT: 10,000 Nm/deg (22Hz)
Lotus Elise 10,000 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2005) 9,500 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan GRP body 8,900 Nm/deg
Ferrari 360 Spider 8,500 Nm/deg
Lotus Elan 7,900 Nm/deg
Dodge Viper Coupe 7,600 Nm/deg
Chrysler Durango 6,800 Nm/deg
Ford Mustang Convertible (2003) 4,800 Nm/deg

?????
BMW Z4: 21Hz... :scratch: Now I just need to figure out how to convert that...
Chevrolet Cobalt: 28 Hz
Ferrari 360: 1,474 kgm/degree (bending: 1,032 kg/mm)
Ferrari 355: 1,024 kgm/degree (bending: 727 kg/mm)
Ferrari 430: supposedly 20% higher than 360

That's...insanely awesome. Another bragging point :D

Where do you get off saying Mazda got cheap with the 09 RX-8, on the contrary Mazda have done over 60 mechanical changes and improvements over the Series 1.

They addressed almost all of the owner complaints that were warranted...the ONLY one they dd not change was the engine's size or power, many owners of SI's who have changed up to S2 (and R3's) are very happy with the gearing and performance, some even saying fuel economy has improved????..don't know about that one.

While i appreciate the improvements on the Series II, its updates provide no performance improvement and only increases reliability to where the Series I cars should have been if they would have done their homework correctly.

The fact is they used a whole generation of cars just to fix the bugs while the competition uses a new gneration to up their game.

The fact is they used a whole generation of cars just to fix the bugs while the competition uses a new gneration to up their game.

Such is the problem with an engine only developed by one company, in one car. There is no accrued learning across the universe of engine designs, cause there's only one design, and that's ours. It's nice to be unique, but there are downsides.

Welcome to the bleeding edge :greenchai

Such is the problem with an engine only developed by one company, in one car. There is no accrued learning across the universe of engine designs, cause there's only one design, and that's ours. It's nice to be unique, but there are downsides.

Welcome to the bleeding edge :greenchai

Reminds me of Apple. Now they use intel chips and linux OS. :)

Reminds me of Apple. Now they use intel chips and linux OS. :)

are you saying future rotary engines are gonna be piston-based???

*head explodes*

^lol

Wow we are right under ferrari!