Stage 1 Shipping at Last! [Archive]

canzoomer

12-16-2003, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
If I remember correctly CZ will not be accepting American Express. CZ please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quite right.
Here are some reasons why:

All credit card companies charge the business a "merchant discount"
This is a fancy way of saying a Service Charge.
Typically on VISA it is around 2%, and on Mastercard 2.5%

Amex charges 5%. That is why they have those deals where you can get an AMEX card that pays you back a 1% dividend on your purchases.
Nothing is free. On the "dividend" you are paying for it.

Remember when you see the AMEX sticker it means that all prices there are inflated 5% to cover this.

They also make vendors sign a contract, called a "merchant agreement".
In the fine print it explicitly says that you may not charge a service charge for this. You can charge EVERYBODY the extra, but can not charge it just on sales paid by that card.

Personally I can live with the 2 to 2.5%, but I find 5% too much to swallow.

It is worse in Canada than the USA. You will see some gas stations in some U.S. States that advertise a "cash price".

That is because in the US it is relatively easy to file a class action suit. Many merchants did, and they overturned the credit cards companies agreement forcing merchants to agree to the rule about charging extra for credit card purchases to cover their costs.
In the gas station and grocery business the dealer margins are exceedingly small. The argument they made in court is that the service charges the credit companies were taking exceeded their normal gross profit on sales!

In Canada we effectively do not have class action lawsuits, due to the different legal system we have here.
That is a negative for our system. Consumers have very littel recourse to protect their interests. That is why we do not have "lemon laws" and the RX-8 buybacks are being sold by dealers as "demos". In the USA this is illegal.

On the other hand we do not have the right to file suit and collect ridiculous settlements for things. Like the lady who sued MacDonalds for millions and won? Won't happen here.

Lastly, I personally object to Mazda doing the refund this way.
If it is a refund, it is your money. I do not like them limiting the ways you can spend it. Notice that all Mazda dealerships in the USA take AMEX?

That is because Mazda set up some of it's financing in the USA with AMEX. Basically they are trying to corner you into spending that money with Mazda dealers, because few other aftermarket companies take AMEX due to the reasons I just described.

If you want to use that money for buying our parts, take the card and buy groceries with it, then take the money you would have paid and spend it to buy parts.

Some banks allow you to deposit the balance of the card into your bank account.

There, that is MY rant for the day!

canzoomer

12-16-2003, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by success07
BrotherVoodoo - Please be wrong - I never leave home without it! In fact its the only card I use. Maybe I could just send 5 crisp Ben Franklins via the Postal Service. They would make it there right? ;)

Sure, or deposit it into a Paypal account.
Or deposit it into the bank and buy a cashiers cheque, or go to the post office and buy money orders... No wait, the post office does not take AMEX, do they?

Sin

12-16-2003, 02:16 AM

OMG I couldnt be any happier all the sudden!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

neit_jnf

12-16-2003, 08:26 AM

Ok so it's easier to upgrade to stage 2 with the redesign right? GREAT! How about the extra heat sinks for the ignition modules? Are they required? Why?

loco4rx8

12-16-2003, 09:49 AM

Maurice, I'd originally planned on getting your mod in the spring, giving my wallet a chance to recover from holiday spending, but now you're talking about a price increase if we don't buy by a certain time.

How much of a price increase are you expecting? I mean, if it's $10 or something, that's not a problem, but if you're going to raise it by $100, it makes a huge difference.

Can you give us at least an idea of how much the price increase will be? Thanks.

RX-Nut

12-16-2003, 02:43 PM

CZ, I'm curious.. have you brought your findings to Mazda? I wonder what they'd think about the juice you've given to the RX-8?

Maybe it'll wise them up and just fix our ECUs. Not that I want you to lose out on your hard earned research or anything, (I salute you!) but I'd love to see someone to 'stick' it to Mazda and say.. "See, this is what you should have done!" :)

brothervoodoo

12-16-2003, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by RX-Nut
CZ, I'm curious.. have you brought your findings to Mazda? CZ's mod does not meet California's Catalytic longevity standard, end of story.. I'm sure Mazda could have done a better job themselves but they rushed it at port to release the first two shipments of 8's that arrived stateside. Mazda is compable enough to tweak their own ECU, but I'm glad we have someone like CZ looking out for the consumer and it doesn't hurt to make a couple bucks off to the side in the process. :)

Omicron

12-16-2003, 04:15 PM

Mazda refused to acknowledge this whole missing horsepower issue, which is why Maurice started investigating this in the first place. When he did, he discovered the screwed up a/f maps and ignition timing. He tried to get Mazda to make good but got no where, so he decided to do something about it on his own. He's just that kind of guy. :D His research has grown into what you see today as the "Stage I" mod. See this thread for more info: http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11614

So rest assured, Mazda knows all about this already. In fact, I'll be willing to bet that there are quite a few Mazda corporate-types who have been closely following this whole development for some time now. I'll also bet that they will never release an ECU "fix" for existing cars, even if Canzoomer were to hand them the complete maps today. Doing so would be tantamount to admitting to fudging the truth, again, just like they did with the HP issue last time. More likely is that come late 2004 or 2005 they will release an "enhanced" RX-8 that has the fuel maps fixed and maybe a few other performance goodies, and bill it as a "higher performance" model. Manufacturers do this all the time as a model of car matures... why not here too? Of course, all of us on the forum here will know the truth. :)

RatedRX8

12-16-2003, 04:37 PM

Just curious, as I know next to nothing about this stuff, but if it is true that it is only the US version of the ECU that was modded down, couldn't we just find a non-US RX-8 and burn a copy of its ECU map onto a new chip for use in our cars?

MEGAREDS

12-16-2003, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by RatedRX8
Just curious, as I know next to nothing about this stuff, but if it is true that it is only the US version of the ECU that was modded down, couldn't we just find a non-US RX-8 and burn a copy of its ECU map onto a new chip for use in our cars?

I had the same thought.

Also, for those of us who came to the RX-8 late late in the game (like me), could someone give some history here. The rumor I heard (and please correct me if I'm wrong) was that Mazda discovered it couldn't meet U.S. EPA requirements and, in order to do so, changed the fuel maps. If this is right, does this mean that Canzoomer's mod has the drawback of raising emissions? Also, will the mod be safe for ATs (where a HP boost would be really nice).

racerdave

12-16-2003, 11:46 PM

I believe the issue wasn't not meeting emissions standards per se (hooking your car up to a meter and having it pass), rather it was a new regulation that required the original, stock cat to last for 120K miles. (where do these idiots think of this crap!?!)

The previous standard had been 50K, so Mazda had to come up with a last-ditch fix... and that was to richen it up to cool the converter more.

AFAIK...

MEGAREDS

12-17-2003, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by racerdave
I believe the issue wasn't not meeting emissions standards per se . . . rather it was a new regulation that required the original, stock cat to last for 120K miles.

Thanks for your response, racerdave. It makes sense. In Illinois, as I recall, we get our cars tested annually after four years. I know that the older cars account for a huge amount of the crap that gets put in the air, so bad cats would explain why the test is considered unnecessary for newer cars, and why the feds would want to extend the life of the cats that are put on the road. (The air here is not good, but I can't believe it how bad it is in places like AZ on calm days). So...

Canzoomer's mod will shorten the life of the cat in return for a HP gain? If so, sounds like a reasonable trade. The issues for me then are: (1) how will the mod affect the life expectancy of the cat; and (2) how much will it cost to replace the cat when the time comes and I fail my emission test?

Thanks again.

RX-8 friend

12-17-2003, 12:33 AM

As for the coil heatsinks. They are not necessary for stage 1. I don't know about stage 2.

That being said, I'm working on heatsinks for coils anyway, because they get very hot in stock tune. Stage 1 doesn't change that. Hot coils (electronic parts) will have shorter life. The coils are not cheap (they ARE Mazda parts, after all). The heatsinks are simple and inexpensive, and I'm doing them because even in my SUV (2001 Pathfinder) the coils are known to fail, and, sigh, are expensive. So I want them for that application too.

brothervoodoo

12-17-2003, 12:35 AM

CZ's Stage1 brings the car closer to JDM spec so probably 50K miles before the Cat starts going bad. But this is only a guess (CZ's guess) since there's no way to test. The Cat will get hotter for certain, time well reveal how it holds up.

BigAsian

12-17-2003, 12:45 AM

The manufacturer has to warranty those convertors and that is what they were worried about. It is federal law. I think the current law is like 8 years and 50,000mi? I'm not sure of the exact # but I believe it changed for the 2004 model year. I'm uncertain of whether or not it corresponds with the 100k or 120k mile # that I've heard.

BigAsian

12-17-2003, 12:48 AM

WTF, I am not BIG ASIAN! I am a big white dude! Isn't that name a bit of an oxymoron anyway.....LOL, of all the names that could get attached accidentally to my post, I get Big Asian.

BigAsian

12-17-2003, 12:49 AM

I AM BIG ASIAN, ALL OBEY ME!

Doctorr

12-17-2003, 12:51 AM

So, if you're not big, or Asian, WHO are you?

And WHY do you insist your sushi is the smelliest?????
.
.
.
doc

BigAsian

12-17-2003, 12:57 AM

Because I store it in my ass!!!!

X-SIN-X

12-17-2003, 05:10 AM

Canzoomer.

Please let me know What I have to do to get an order in. I have the funds(no problem) but I am out of the country and I wont return until the last week in Jan. It would be nice to arrive home and have a MOD waiting to be installed on my garaged 8.

Rev It Up

12-17-2003, 09:07 AM

Would someone please tell how to order from Canzoomer. Havn't found his web site yet Thanks

success07

12-17-2003, 09:55 AM

Order by e-mailing canzoomer at maurice@harddata.com - he should respond within 24hrs - he has been great with returning my e-mails promptly

vix8

12-17-2003, 09:48 PM

Hmm, I've e-mailed him twice about wanting to order and I've never received a reply. I just figured he was too busy and that he would back to us when he was ready to ship. Now I'm worried that he didn't get my request... :-(

davefzr

12-17-2003, 11:52 PM

There was a questsion asked of CanZ a few posts ago that I dont think got answered yet. He was saying that the price of the product will go up after the first of the year. Could you please elaborate on how much this will go up? I am one of those who is waiting until others have installed it before I purchase it and am wondering how much it will be going up.

Thankx a lot!

neit_jnf

12-18-2003, 07:39 AM

Another question that comes to mind is for those of us that are buying the car soon or are still in break-in. Should we wait after 600-1000 miles before installing this mod or is it okay for break-in period as well?

RX-8 friend

12-18-2003, 12:51 PM

Canzoomer has it in and is breaking in a new engine.

Floyd

12-18-2003, 01:10 PM

Any word on the website and dyno posts (plus other cool info like new mpg etc)?

SDFLY

12-18-2003, 02:01 PM

Canzoomer/Maurice please come in.....Did you get the dyno done Thursday night? And those of us who have not order as yet are curious about your "increase" in price remark.

Speed-ER doc

12-18-2003, 03:30 PM

I e-mailed Canzoomer and got a response the next day with order form. He has many other mods for sale as well, including Mazdaspeed items. My order for Stage 1 is in, and I am psyched to try it out! I hope installation instructions are included.

syntrix

12-18-2003, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
If I remember correctly CZ will not be accepting American Express. CZ please correct me if I'm wrong.

And on canzoomer's response:

AMEX is the highest percentage anywhere out of them all. It sucks for business, but if that's the only card a customer has, then it's better than nothing. Some places even charge an extra 2-3% for amex handling!!!!

hogcar

12-18-2003, 09:43 PM

Answer the question where are the results??? I figured
I should post over here so you would STOP telling me
about all of the missed posts that I need to read.
I need to start selling a mystery product and get several
testimonials of support, then I could accept a ton of
orders and collect the money before posting real world
results. Racing Beat had a Mazda rx8 well before they
were being sold. Don't you think they have the r&d to
develop these products or could it be that there is no
free lunch and that their reputation would be hurt
if they sold products that were not as advertised?

syntrix

12-18-2003, 09:55 PM

hogcar, tone it down.

I posted links to when the final dyno testing is coming out, and also to why there is no gtech results (hello.... it's called snow).

Click the linky and try to read.

Omicron

12-18-2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by hogcar
Answer the question where are the results??? I figured
I should post over here so you would STOP telling me
about all of the missed posts that I need to read.
I need to start selling a mystery product and get several
testimonials of support, then I could accept a ton of
orders and collect the money before posting real world
results. Racing Beat had a Mazda rx8 well before they
were being sold. Don't you think they have the r&d to
develop these products or could it be that there is no
free lunch and that their reputation would be hurt
if they sold products that were not as advertised? Hogcar, this sounds suspiciously like a troll post. If you have legitimate questions, you'd be better served to ask them politely, instead of coming out swinging.

Sorry to say this, but if you want info on this mod, you need to read the histories. There is far too much info to summarize it all for you because you "demand" it.

As for your results question, just a few posts up it was stated clearly that Canzoomer's dyno results will be posted soon. If you want to wait for them, please do so.

If on the other hand you are trolling and looking for a fight, then you can consider this a polite warning. Thanks.

hogcar

12-18-2003, 10:15 PM

#1 I have no idea what a troll post is
#2 I did not "come out swinging" I only asked the same
questions several others are asking. (SDFLY)
#3 I told you I have read the posts I spend a great
deal of time reading the posts not commenting on them.
#4 I am a well educated person please do not patronize
me with... Click the linky and try to read.

mcballz13

12-18-2003, 10:23 PM

I would like to have one installed in the spring... How do I order and when should go about doing this to have it ready for warmer weather???

Sin

12-19-2003, 03:33 AM

Too close to Christams to be pissy

RX8 fever

12-19-2003, 05:39 AM

Hogcar is right. He is not thrashing the board. I also read all the threads and it doesnt do anything to take away the uncertainty.
People are asking questions to Canzoomer's (price increase,testing etc) and he doesnt respond. Well he just responded to a question about where the piggyback connects to, but he doesnt want to answer anything else.
It is not about trolls, is about consumers tired of being taken advantage of. If there is a price for a product, you must know exactly what you are paying for. It is not enough only by comments of few people who had tested the unit with Him.

Genom

12-19-2003, 07:26 AM

This is the first time cz hasnt replied and we know they have had bad weather, as well as the fact that he runs another business. Wether you order the unit now or after more info gets posted, however, is YOUR own choice.

Please dont be so patronizing and assume epople here are just flinging money at someone. If you really had been reading all the posts for a while, you would a) Know what a troll is and b) Seen that in more than 3 months of saga this is the first time Maurice didnt reply immmediatly to a question. Give they guy some time ok? EVERYTHING he has said has happened usually a week or so late.

Speed-ER doc

12-19-2003, 08:40 AM

CZ says he has enough orders to keep him busy for the next few weeks whether he posts dynos or not, just based on his apparent knowledge of the system and his straightforward answers to everyone's questions.

Anytime you make a transaction you are taking a chance. He has put a lot of work into this gizmo, with a seemingly small profit margin. I recommend we cut him some slack and appreciate his efforts.

By the way, CZ, it is 70 degrees and sunny here if you need a warm weather tester! You have my info.

RX-8 friend

12-19-2003, 02:24 PM

Well, Canzoomer is rather busy. We were working late on Wednesday and Thursday nights trying to get the "ABS fooler" working. He also has a high end computer buisness to run. Not much time to answer 180+ e-mails per day on just the car stuff.

I just posted elsewhere and will repeat it here. He is frustrated with the delays just as you are. Last night he managed to get some runs in (temps up to +2 C with clean dry roads). I'll let him post what he is comfortable with (some would claim whatever looks good) but from what he told me, he's close to stock 3rd gen territory in 1/4 mile times. Oh, and he's very happy and relieved he got in some runs.

As for the comments re consumers being taken advantage of, he has not taken any money yet as far as I know, because he isn't ready just yet to ship product. Please advise who is being taken advantage of. There are inevitable delays this time of year receiving parts, getting work done to prepare parts, etc. Be patient, the modules will be ready to ship very soon. So far the delays have greatly improved the product. From something you had to run cables out of the ECU box and into the cab to a device you just plug in series with the ECU and put in the ECU box is quite an advance in ease of customer installation. Also, the prototypes on the road are so far proving the safety and effectiveness of this mod. The longer they are out there before shipping, the better you should feel about the mod.

r0tor

12-19-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by SDFLY
Canzoomer/Maurice please come in.....Did you get the dyno done Thursday night? And those of us who have not order as yet are curious about your "increase" in price remark.

I'd also like some info on these 2 things...

Lock & Load

12-19-2003, 03:44 PM

Maurice (Canzoomer)

Most of the forum members who have entrusted you with the stage1kit and ordered from you have total utter faith in your product and you as a person of Highest repute, its only a few COWBOYS who shot from the hip and dont think before they act , ignore those f#$%wits and carry on your excellent work ,

You and your team have 99.9% support from forum members who are patient and ready to wait for your shipping and dyno results realizing the magnitude of your task .

By the way its a sunny 28 degrees celcious here on the sunny warm gold coast , as i swim and play with my family by the beach i will keep some warm thoughts for you poor guys in that freakkin freezing temperature.

Keep up the excellent work , "dont worry be happy".

MICHAEL

canzoomer

12-19-2003, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by hogcar
#1 I have no idea what a troll post is
#2 I did not "come out swinging" I only asked the same
questions several others are asking. (SDFLY)
#3 I told you I have read the posts I spend a great
deal of time reading the posts not commenting on them.
#4 I am a well educated person please do not patronize
me with... Click the linky and try to read.

A troll is where people say things that are designed to be provocative and argumentative beyond a reasonable level.

The tone of your postings was a bit harsh, and some take it more seriously than is needed. I am not too worried about it.

Thanks for reading the posts. i know it is a lot, and over a long time. I started this as a personal experiment to make my RX-8 what it was supposed to be, and it grew into a bit of a monster.
Now I am a bit stretched doing this in my spare time, while running my business at teh same time..

I have about a quarter of a million dollars at stake in this right now, and have to set some priorities.

Right now the main one is to make sure that what we are selling is what we advertised, pleases people, works, and is safe to install and use.

Secondly we have to build and deliver.
Thirdly, I have to produce some more data for those who are asking for it.

I will certainly provide this, but it simply is not the highest priority item on my list at this moment.

Even so, I am still actively working on those matters.
To wit, I spent the last two nights up late doing just that, then spent more time at my computer to 3 a.m. answering everyone's emails, doing paperwork, and slipping in some test time on the car.

OK, got a moment, so let's give you some info:
1) Dyno.
Got lots of Mustang dyno results.

The Mustang is a lot more conservative than a Dynojet.
My BASELINE STOCK dyno on the Mustang ran 151HP at the rear wheels.
Of course I now will hear some people saying:
"that is all wrong, lots of dynos show a RX-8 making at least 170hp to 180hp at the wheels"

Sure. On a Dynojet.

So, i am trying to get the ABS fooler cleaned up to do a Dynojet session. Problem with a Dynojet is you really want to do some long, multi gear pull sessions.
And, of course, that pisses of the ABS sensor, who triggers a check engine.
On a Mustang I can do a hard quick run, and get it in before the ABS fault event triggers an ECU fault.

We get around 172hp at the wheels on the Mustang dyno, versus stock of 151 hp.

This is at 3,000 foot altitude, on street Shell premium "Optimax" gasoline. 91 octane rated.

I expect to see a Dynojet with a base of around 170hp, and a run with the stage1 of around 190 to 195hp.

I did our runs before where I did a quicky re-wire on the sensors, but the method I used ( tying the rears to the front inputs) risks smoking my ABS controller. Now that I know what that part costs, no way am i risking it again.

Now we are trying to perfect wheel sensor simulators.
I think we have it nailed, but it will probably take to the end of the weekend before I know for sure.

Worked on this last night until around midnight.
AND the night before.
Tonight my wife and I and a friend are going to dinner and LOTR3, so it can all wait until tomorrow.

Once I have that done, then i can get the Dynojet done and posted.
In the meantime, i got some GTech Pro Comp pulls in last night.
I will take the files off the unit and into the GTech software this weekend and post the graphs.

Conditions were a bit above freezing, clean dry road, 17" winter wheels and Nokian WR all season tires, level road.
In 6 runs:
16.1 - Ooops. Take off the DSC!
15.4 - lousy launch. Too low rpm in 1st, bogged a bit.
14.8 - gettng better, still trying to find perfect launch rpm and burnout distance.
14.9 - OK, so I will not make a living at a drag strip.
Ass end slid out about 30 degrees and i had to back off to straighten out.
13.78 - Yes, got a near perfect hookup, ass end did not try to slide out on me badly, and i managed to hold throttle to 9000 on all shifts.
14.56 - shifted 1 to 2 too early.

Went home. Car hot, neighbours near that road probably calling cops by now..

Nobody has to buy this.
Nobody has to believe me.
it is on 4 cars full time, and these guys are all really happy.
several others have gone on test demo runs with them, and they are all happy.

If you want to bitch, ask questions, or whatever, just call me.
I post my home #, ICQ, and email all over the place.
Maurice Hilarius
780-456-1510
ICQ 21167247
maurice@harddata.com

This is my hobby, I do not claim to be perfect, but i think I do have some clue about what I am about, and I think a lot of people can vouch on this list that I have supplied them with various things, and have not ripped anybody off.
When i DID get my facts wrong, or when i screwed up, i am not shy to admit it.

You will get dynos as soon as I can.
If you want to join me at midnight for a couple of days to see what is going on and help, then the added hands would be most welcome.

If you wonder if we will still be here later, go on over and check out our company.
http://www.harddata.com

This is what we do for a living in the real world.
We build and install computer equipment for your military, museums, government departments, and universities.
We do have some clue about building complex electronic equipment, and we have been in business doing this since 1992.

Seriously, if you want to get info ASK ME.
If you have a bone to pick TELL ME.
I will do my best to satisfy you within my abilities and time.

If you come out in public and start calling me out, then I really wonder what your motives are?

At a minimum it looks like you are spoiling for a fight.

Who needs that?

Whether you are a master of diplomacy or a rude boor, it is your privelege. If you say something about me, it is between you and me.
I thank those who were concerned about it and admonished you, or questioned your education, but frankly it really is not their place to say so.

Everyone has the right to say what they want. It's called freedom of speech, and I thank those who have died to preserve our priveledge to enjoy it.

Of course it is also a case of where it goes too far, then the speech may end up with somebodies nose meeting anothers fist.

Don't worry, i am not threatening you, I am a lover , not a fighter.

Lock & Load

12-19-2003, 05:49 PM

Maurice

Great reply from the rx8 SAGE.

SDFLY

12-19-2003, 07:28 PM

Canzoomer,

Excellent news on the tests and I for one apoligize if I seemed impatient. I am very interested in your product(s) and when you posted that there will probably be an increase in price I immediately thought "should I order right now before the price goes up to...?" I really appreciate all the extensive work that you (and your crew) have given to better our cars and hope that all your work is rewarded tenfold. Now, knowing your personal load
I for one will relax and wait for updates as they come.....

Kevin

SDFLY

12-19-2003, 07:29 PM

Excellent news is not strong enough....13.78...wow!!!!!!!

Omicron

12-19-2003, 09:01 PM

Maurice, on your best run, what RPM did you launch at?

hogcar

12-19-2003, 09:50 PM

Testes, Testes 1 ..2 ..3 Testes
Spoiling for a fight? I am not spoiling for a fight
you mention it twice. I do not however run from one either.
Good luck with the work you are doing! No really Good luck.

Gord96BRG

12-19-2003, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by hogcar
Testes, Testes 1 ..2 ..3 Testes

Sometimes you have to wonder if Canzoomer really wants the hassle of people challenging him and demanding stuff of him, when this is really just a sideline that fell out of a desire to figure out what was wrong with his RX-8 and how to fix it. He's just posted about everything he has going on, but that's still not enough for some people to be patient.

I think Canzoomer should be like the soup Nazi on Seinfeld. If someone pisses him off - "No ECU Mod for you!", and refuse to sell him one. There's enough people here who are impressed with the testing (that Maurice has documented going back to September, long before he developed his solution he was detailing the problems as he encountered them. BTW, I call BS on your claim, hogcar, that you've read all the threads about this while you lurked, since you claim that Mazda richened the mixture because of side port problems, when it has been stated by Mazda and confirmed by Maurice, along with Paul Yaw and several other rotary experts that you referenced, that the reason was to lower the exhaust temperatures to increase catalytic converter longevity. You seem completely unaware of the details of that issue) and development that Maurice still has a huge market, and he doesn't need a few people giving him an unreasonable time. He has promised dyno testing as soon as he can (which, even though you don't seem to understand, has to fit into his busy schedule and other business and family commitments).

If you don't want to wait, fine, but give the guy a break. Maybe, just maybe, he's brighter than your average 'intake tube with a K&N on the end of it' tuning shop, and is making an effort to truly understand what the RX-8 ECU is doing rather than just slapping together a typical 'upgrade' that is thrown on all the sport compact cars and claiming a 10 hp improvement from it. The data, from Maurice and from independent testing, will be coming soon enough. I'd highly recommend anyone to do before/after testing of any mods they make - so far, the exhaust and intake guys are highly negligent in that regard, and the vendors are getting a free ride with all the customer posts stating "it sounds great and my butt dyno tells me it's faster."

Regards,
Gordon

hogcar

12-19-2003, 10:39 PM

Whats up with all the name calling? I HAVE READ THE POSTS
The problem is you dont read them. Mazda's word on the richened fuel mixture is for preservation of the engine and the cat
in that order. In fact they list the cat as a secondary reason.
Hey another reply without questioning someones ethics, morals
or name calling. Have a nice day.

MEGAREDS

12-19-2003, 11:17 PM

Speaking for the lurkers... I think many of us are thinking the proof is just going to be in the pudding. There's no reason to wish Canzoomer anything but luck on this. A happy ending would be a nice mod for a great car and a healthy profit for Maurice who has obviously been putting in a lot of time. For those who are skeptical, why not just sit back and watch. I probably won't do the mod (I'm guessing Stage 1 won't even work for the "standard power" engine, right?), but I certainly wouldn't care if the price of the mod were a few hundred more later as insurance against any doubts about its safety or effectiveness. If you can't bring yourself to trust Maurice, just let everyone else try it first. The results are going to be well known very quickly once this thing ships.

As for me, a Christmas wish would be for Mazda to see the finished product and acknowledge its effectiveness, explain why people shouldn't do it and recommend against people doing the mod (they'd have to do that), but also announce that they won't void the entire warranty if owners do an ECU mod -- just the parts of the warranty that could be potentially affected by it. Why would Mazda void the entire warranty if a seat buckle breaks, for example, just to propose a fanciful hypothetical. ;)

Then again, I was hoping that the recording industry and Napster would strike a deal... silly me. Still, unlike the Napster problem, isn't it possible that Mazda is somewhat happy about this project. I suppose it depends on how much it will cost to replace the cats for the people who demand warranty work when the cars start to fail their emissions tests. What will it cost to replace the cat, BTW?

I'm also curious about something I haven't seen discussed: how will the mod affect emissions and fuel consumption? Is the damage done to the cat the only down side to this?

Again, my best to everyone who is building and buying this unit. Good luck!

Speed-ER doc

12-20-2003, 01:04 AM

13.78 beats a Porsche Boxter S (13.82 by Motor Trend)! Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait.

Don't let the skeptics get you down. One of the reasons I was willing to order without waiting for more data is your laid back answers to these detractors and your scientific stepwise thorough approach to the questions at hand. Keep up the FANTASTIC work!

So many of us obviously feel the same way.

hoffa

12-20-2003, 02:40 AM

wait what does this kit do?

hoffa

12-20-2003, 02:45 AM

and by the numbers..where can i get one?

Sin

12-20-2003, 03:12 AM

Oh please I need one so soon....

CCJ

12-20-2003, 03:42 AM

Maurice, cheers to your efforts and those who are working with you. Honestly, as I am still reading and learning, I know that I don't know enough to say that I want to buy the upgrade, yet... But it is important to acknowledge the effort, time and $$$ that you have put into this. I applaud you!

Gord96BRG

12-20-2003, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by hogcar
Whats up with all the name calling? I HAVE READ THE POSTS
The problem is you dont read them. Mazda's word on the richened fuel mixture is for preservation of the engine and the cat
in that order.

And your word on the richened mixture:Racing Beat, Paul Yaw (brilliant),Mazdaspeed etc. They have not come up with to date anything like this magic bullet. My guess
and it is only a guess is that Mazda richened the fuel mixture
on the 8 so that the side seals would have a reasonable life
expectancy.

You still don't get it - Mazda never has said that the mixture was richened for preservation of the engine - not in any order, not at all. WE are talking about the mixture when the engine is running normally - the ECU reflash in port in July was solely for cat converter longevity. Nothing to do with "preservation of the engine". You show up and start claiming that the mixture was changed for the side seals, despite everyone else (including Paul Yaw, RotaryNews, and Mazda themselves) having documented that the mixture change was solely for the cat converters to be able to last for the new emissions law's required 120,000 miles. Who should we believe - Mazda, Paul Yaw, etc., or you? Hmmm, tough call.

The OTHER factor that has been extensively discussed is how the engine operates on a dyno, and the failsafe modes that Mazda has designed in courtesy of the ECU and DSC/ABS systems. You throw out Paul Yaw's name to cast doubt on Canzoomer, yet Paul was one of the first here to document this phenomenon and discuss the elaborate interactions between the ECU and the other systems. Guess you didn't quite read all the posts, eh?

You also throw out RB's lack of a magic bullet as an argument against Canzoomer's ECU mod - again, you must have somehow missed this on RB's web site:
Coming Soon -
Take a look at some of the projects we are currently working on.

HOT - These projects are getting very close to completion!
- Suspension Springs (Available Late Fall 2003)
- Aluminum Flywheel
- Pressure Plate
- Clutch Disc
- ECU/PCM Reprogramming

Oh look, on that last line - looks suspiciously like a "magic bullet" to me.

So much for the latest in a line of rotary "know-it-alls" to show up late on the forum and tell us how they know more than everyone here about the RX-8. Nice way to blow your credibility in only 14 posts!

Regards,
Gordon

syntrix

12-20-2003, 02:01 PM

Well put Gordon!!!!!

Jag

12-20-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Gordon
So much for the latest in a line of rotary "know-it-alls" to show up late on the forum and tell us how they know more than everyone here about the RX-8. Nice way to blow your credibility in only 14 posts!
ROFL, Gordon you kill me sometimes. great post. :D

akrx8

12-20-2003, 07:34 PM

canzoomer,take all the time you need.i can wait for results and a quailty product.

happy hoildays,akrx8.

Speed-ER doc

12-20-2003, 07:35 PM

Looks like we got some "straight shooters" up thar in Canada. In Texas that means blunt, but honest and trustworthy. Y'alls posts are always entertaining and informative, keep it up. :p

hogcar

12-20-2003, 10:40 PM

REREAD Mazda's official statement. I do agree with you about
one thing, that I only have a few posts but exactly how does
that qualify you as more Knowledgable than me? Heck, with all your posts that makes you the expert. How many times do I have to tell you I have read the post!!! I just dont pick and
choose the good parts or just the ones that I agree with to remember. I have Known about Racing beats work on the Rx8
since before this forum was even started or were being sold.
They are an excellent company. I don't think Racing Beat's
ecu mod is going to be "magic " but a reasonable improvement.

russgriz

12-21-2003, 12:11 AM

First of all, I just want to say how much I enjoy the forum. I don't own an RX-8 yet but I am burning candles, keeping the house at 50 degrees, and eating dog food to save for one! All the posts I have read (I have been reading for days!) have been very informative, cleared up some rumors, and helped me to decide that the RX-8 is the car for me, mods or no mods (course, I'm gonna bike to work now so I can put my gas money away to buy the ecu mod). I have one suggestion tho. For people like hogcar (not picking on you man, it's just that your last post is a perfect example) who refer to a "hard reference" (my term) like the Mazda "official statement" (hogcar's term) concerning the reasons why Mazda changed the ecu, can you post a link to or a copy of the official statement so that we can read it for ourselves? Sometimes I feel like a lawyer, I like actual evidence that I can look at myself as opposed to hearsay, no offense. Thanks to everyone and keep up the good work!!!

Gord96BRG

12-21-2003, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by hogcar
REREAD Mazda's official statement.

You should - we are talking about two separate things here.

1) The port re-flash of the ECU which resulted in the loss of 9 rated HP. This was a result of the need to richen the mixture at high rpm full throttle operation to lengthen the life of the cat. NOTHING to do with "protecting" the engine, as YOU claim.

2) Mazda states that for dyno testing or similar high load operations, the ECU in conjunction with the DSC/ABS can go into a safe mode to protect the engine. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PORT REFLASH THAT RICHENED THE MIXTURE, AND WHICH CANZOOMER'S MOD ADDRESSES.

Got it now? Two completely separate issues - the port reflash had NOTHING to do with protecting the engine. You are wrong.

I do agree with you about
one thing, that I only have a few posts but exactly how does
that qualify you as more Knowledgable than me? Heck, with all your posts that makes you the expert.

Here's the difference - I don't claim to be an expert, and I don't preach about how the RX-8 operates solely on prior experience with non-RX-8 rotaries. I also don't dismiss out of hand the valuable research being done by members of this forum. I'm not a rotary expert, but I'm an engineer fully capable of reading (actually reading, not just skimming and mis-interpreting as you have done here) technical material and sorting fact from BS.

How many times do I have to tell you I have read the post!!!

I think we've just illustrated (again) that if you did, you didn't understand them.

I have Known about Racing beats work on the Rx8
since before this forum was even started or were being sold.
They are an excellent company. I don't think Racing Beat's
ecu mod is going to be "magic " but a reasonable improvement.

That's funny, since you were the one who claimed that Racing Beat wasn't working on any RX-8 ECU mod like Canzoomer. You dismissed and mocked Canzoomer's plans as snake oil, because, as you implied, there's no way a hick like Canzoomer could develop something like this before Racing Beat. Further, "magic bullet" was YOUR term, used in a derogatory reference to Canzoomer's ECU mod. Nobody here is claiming magic, but Canzoomer has so far documented an improvement of about 25 rwhp from his mod.

Regards,
Gordon

Sea Ray

12-21-2003, 10:24 AM

It would be interesting to see how many people are on the list for the stage 1. I was told 3 weeks for mine. And I assume that had someone got one yet we would cetainly have heard.

RX8 fever

12-21-2003, 10:47 AM

Hi Canzoomer's.
Are you going to post pictures of the piggybag?.
Do you have in mind in the future to have a webpage with your products for the RX-8?.
BTW the 13.78 is great!!!!!
Thanks

RX-8 friend

12-21-2003, 01:24 PM

Pics will be coming, and ditto web page. Understanding, of course, as we are swamped with getting this thing out to excited owners, we will not have much time to do a web page quickly.

Just for anyone who hasn't found the cost increase info. - it's on a different topic and forum area (and double posted yet) - going from $500 to $750 in January. So "early adopters" will be getting a pretty good deal. At that price we don't make much. Our whoops, your benefit.

Omicron

12-21-2003, 01:50 PM

So are you actually SHIPPING the units now? How many have gone out? Thanks...

r0tor

12-21-2003, 03:46 PM

$750!!!???!!!??? ummm..... no

Omicron

12-21-2003, 03:49 PM

For +25 WHP that's still a helluva deal.

Speed-ER doc

12-21-2003, 04:58 PM

Matt's new Ferrari cost about $500/HP (but probably worth it).
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16962

I don't know of any other way to add 20-25 HP as cheaply as even $750. I would certainly pay that much for the performance gains we are talking about.

Stock is all well and good, as we know.
But I want more....................................

(and I'm signed up for 5 bills) :D :D :D :D :D

Genom

12-21-2003, 05:06 PM

I'm gonna fax in my order "soon". Just need to make sure I'm not gonna have to lend the little woman some money for some stupid gift she's thinking about for her dad. (the mans a doctor who has anything he could possibly want BTW, gave his sister a new car 2 weeks ago for her b-day).

But this week I hope.

swiftnet

12-21-2003, 09:46 PM

I'm really interested - just checked the bank account type of interested ; )
Awesome that you guys (canzoomer) will allow for us Linux users! I have 8 pc's in the home and all run Linux or FreeBSD, anyway - how do I order?

RX-8 friend

12-22-2003, 12:30 AM

None have been shipped yet (other than the test units). Cases arrived friday, but were done wrong. Should be fixed tomorrow. We installed the first "no wiring" prototype in Canzoomer's car today. I would expect shipping to start late this week, but Canzoomer is the one who knows. We are still waiting for a few parts, I think.

To order, send an e-mail to: maurice@harddata.com

brothervoodoo

12-22-2003, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
I would expect shipping to start late this week, but Canzoomer is the one who knows. I know CZ's has compiled a decent size mailing list for the 1st distribution. Everyone will be eyeing their inboxes... ;)

Sin

12-22-2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by brothervoodoo
I know CZ's has compiled a decent size mailing list for the 1st distribution. Everyone will be eyeing their inboxes... ;)

Hell yeah brother, I 've been looking all day everyday!!!

MEGAREDS

12-22-2003, 01:20 AM

Will the mod be safe and effective for those of us with AT engines?

Sin

12-22-2003, 01:45 AM

I think its been mentioned that he wont be doing an ECU for the AT'S..right?

Gyro

12-22-2003, 08:48 AM

Right.

No ECU mod for A/T at this time, and no immidiate plans to build one (as mentioned earlier). I guess the demand is not there to justify the initial bulid costs.

Jhouse

12-22-2003, 11:41 AM

its funny people dont want to pay 750 for 25 ponies but they will pay 180 to 260 for 5-10 maybe ponies for an intake......i have to wonder about these folks. Oh well i guess they could pay an average of about 645 bucks and buy 3 intakes and if they are really lucky they will get their 25 ponies.

KEEP UP THE MOST APPRECIATED WORK CZ. I will be looking forward to purchasing your mod ASAP.

Gord96BRG

12-22-2003, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Gyro
No ECU mod for A/T at this time, and no immidiate plans to build one (as mentioned earlier). I guess the demand is not there to justify the initial bulid costs.

It's not so much that the demand isn't there - it's that this is still a side-line operation. Canzoomer is developing and testing the ECU mod on his own personal RX-8, which has a manual transmission.

Canzoomer doesn't own an AT RX-8, and thus has no way to develop and test the tuning for an AT version. He has said that if someone is willing to give him an AT RX-8 for a month or two then he'd be happy to do an AT version!

Regards,
Gordon

RX-8 friend

12-22-2003, 12:20 PM

As I see it there are three parts to this mod.
1. The basic hardware.
2. Developing the tuning for the basic hardware.
3. Packaging the finished product so almost anyone can sucessfully install it.

I would say the most expensive part is #2. Lots of dyno time and on-road testing. This is the part that doesn't bode well for the automatics, as there are so few around here. Also this cost must be averaged over all AT customers, and that number is pretty small. Add in the fact that the AT doesn't have the extra ports on the engine, so will probaby not benefit as much from the mod. and you can see why we haven't gone there yet. Plus, as you can see, we currently have our hands full with the MT one. Not to say we will not ever do it, just not for a while, at least.

Now if Mazda had used the 6 port and an automatic such as BMWs 6 speed with a special torque converter that works past 9000 RPM things might be different. But then the car would cost almost twice as much. :(

Omicron

12-22-2003, 01:30 PM

You might think about asking for volunteers with an A/T car out in the main forums. I have a feeling you would get someone.

r0tor

12-22-2003, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by Jhouse
its funny people dont want to pay 750 for 25 ponies but they will pay 180 to 260 for 5-10 maybe ponies for an intake......i have to wonder about these folks. Oh well i guess they could pay an average of about 645 bucks and buy 3 intakes and if they are really lucky they will get their 25 ponies.

OK, I'm sorry but...

Take a look at what $700 for a chip will get you at AEW for Audi's... the chip will boost hp by 40, has a remote control to switch fuel maps, has cruise control input sequence to flip fuel maps, has a immobilizer built in that requires the user to input a cruise control sequence to start the car, has a valet mode to limit speed to 30mph, controls A/f, controls ignition, controls boost. There is also an option for a data link to do your own programming or use it as a code reader.

for $400 you can get everything above except for the remote control. http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_select.cfm?PMaI=1&PMoI=27&PEI=2&PP=8e_a4_18t_chips.cfm&PPT=Chips if you think i am lying.

As good as CZ chip is and as much as I commend him for his work, the thing is childs play for what you get with other companies for $750.

Kenco

12-22-2003, 06:30 PM

Will Canzoomers stage 1 mod work on a euro spec UK Hi power car?

I personally don't see why not, because as far as I am aware the UK & US engines are mechanically identical!

If it will work, would you ship to the UK, and how much will that cost?:D

racerdave

12-22-2003, 06:53 PM

Mechanically, yes.

But this is an ECU mod... and I'm not sure if the non-US/Canada cars suffered the same detuning that North America did...

Kenco

12-22-2003, 06:56 PM

They sure did, even more so!

They dropped power to 231ps (228 bhp) to meet future european standards I believe!:(

RX8 fever

12-22-2003, 08:09 PM

Lock & Load

12-22-2003, 08:25 PM

Prober

NO one has put a gun to your head and said buy it or else , so the solution is simple if you dont see the value in canzoomers or any other rx8 product offered DONT BUY THEM.

Even at $750 canzoomers stage 1 kit i feel is still great value , especially when compared to some of the totally useless aftermarket products out there for the rx8 especially the totally overpriced mazda products.

michael

Genom

12-22-2003, 08:34 PM

Also, the price for being first is always highest. I am sure a year from now someone will have the equivalent to CZ's stage 1 for a couple hundred. So? I still will have had a years of pleasure with the mod in anyways. Like said before, sometimes it's worth it to pay a little more to some people.

After all, what is money for but to give life even more pleasure?

canzoomer

12-22-2003, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by pr0ber
OK, I'm sorry but...

Take a look at what $700 for a chip will get you at AEW for Audi's... the chip will boost hp by 40, has a remote control to switch fuel maps, has cruise control input sequence to flip fuel maps, has a immobilizer built in that requires the user to input a cruise control sequence to start the car, has a valet mode to limit speed to 30mph, controls A/f, controls ignition, controls boost. There is also an option for a data link to do your own programming or use it as a code reader.

for $400 you can get everything above except for the remote control. http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/shared/part_select.cfm?PMaI=1&PMoI=27&PEI=2&PP=8e_a4_18t_chips.cfm&PPT=Chips if you think i am lying.

As good as CZ chip is and as much as I commend him for his work, the thing is childs play for what you get with other companies for $750.

You are quite right.

That is because Audi/Volkswagen designed the ECU/PCM in such a way that a add on board to do the work is much more simple to build, the code for programming the ECU was made available, and they have a socket to plug it into.

Out of the $500 we are currently charging the cable assembly harness alone has connectors on it that cost us $53 per assembly, and that is when bought in quantities of 1200 pieces minimum.

Add to that making the harness, whish involves 92 wires on the extension between the connectors, and 7 wires to the FCU we supply.

Wrap a 3 piece aluminum box to hold it, and about 3 man-hours each to assemble.

The computer board in the box costs us around $300 alone.

BUT: It also is a computer that can control the ignition timing, and has a full fledged boost control in it, so that later when we sell the Stage2 and Stage3, we can use the same board and box, add a few more internal wires as a separate assembly inside the box, and some software.

Plus, it is early in the production, so the quantites are fairly small.
Once we get up to the multi thousand level, assuming that happens, we can probably drop the costs down to around the $400 mark for sale.

canzoomer

12-22-2003, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Kenco
Will Canzoomers stage 1 mod work on a euro spec UK Hi power car?

I personally don't see why not, because as far as I am aware the UK & US engines are mechanically identical!

If it will work, would you ship to the UK, and how much will that cost?:D

We are hoping to be sending a unit to a person in England in January so it can be tested.

Cost to ship by Fedex Air, including insurance is $40

We are looking for a volunteer.
If it does not work we will refund the cost of the unit if returned.

DAC17

12-22-2003, 10:08 PM

The other BIG reason for VW/Audi large HP gains is that they're tuning a turbocharged engine. It's a lot easier to get big power by changing the PSI pressure of the turbo.

Kenco

12-23-2003, 01:54 AM

Canzoomer

I've sent you a pm:D

FastRX8

12-23-2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by canzoomer
We are hoping to be sending a unit to a person in England in January so it can be tested.

Cost to ship by Fedex Air, including insurance is $40

We are looking for a volunteer.
If it does not work we will refund the cost of the unit if returned.
Hallo Canzoomer I am ready for testing your unit.
My car will arrive in Feb. so it is still some time to go. I wounder if I would first to have it run in about 1000km or so, and than install the unit. Unless the time is not to far, let me know.

Doug Green

12-23-2003, 11:04 AM

I'm a buyer........can't wait to test it.....good job Canzooomer.
Send me the link and I will order one now!

Kind regards,
Doug
Las Vegas

WHealy

12-23-2003, 12:37 PM

Hum ... When I last bought an Audi chip for a 2001 Audi A6 2.7 T 6 speed, I think it bumped it like 40 HP. But the cost was $700 for the software, $500 for the extra ECU and $150 for the vag tool. CanZoomer seems prety much in line to me.

Genom

12-23-2003, 12:46 PM

All I can say is I spoke to Maurcie on the phone last night and am 100% sure this is a great unit and 20-25 horsies for even 750 would still be a hell of a deal, considering all the custom work going into each unit.

This will be the absolute best 500 bucks spent on the car IMHO powerwise.

Winning_BlueRX8

12-23-2003, 01:01 PM

Damn, I want to buy this...but I'm afraid I won't be able to install it. I've never modded a car before. How easy/difficult will the install be? And when does the price jump to $750? Also, what method of payments do you accept? Do you accept Visa, or Discover cards?

BRx8

12-23-2003, 01:43 PM

my order has just been faxed over there...i hope to be seeing a nice package sometime soon!

Jhouse

12-23-2003, 03:26 PM

HMMMMM.....

AUDI.........MAZDA

Oh i get it THEY ARE 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARS, I am just outraged by this discovery. All this time i thought i could go out and buy an audi mod chip to put in my mazda.

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO COMPARE PRICES, MODS ,OR ANYHTHING ELSE FOR THIS CAR TO A TOTALLY f%^#^$ DIFFERENT CAR.

p.s. AHHH i feel better now.

Sea Ray

12-23-2003, 03:34 PM

I faxed my order a few minutes ago also.

Omicron

12-23-2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Winning_BlueRX8
Damn, I want to buy this...but I'm afraid I won't be able to install it. I've never modded a car before. How easy/difficult will the install be? And when does the price jump to $750? Also, what method of payments do you accept? Do you accept Visa, or Discover cards? Not much to installing it:

* Remove positive battery cable
* Remove ECU cover (1 bolt)
* Unplug ECU
* Plug ECU mod in where main ECU used to be plugged in
* Plug main ecu into ecu mod
* Close ECU cover
* Reconnect battery cover
Pretty simple. Besides, I'm sure someone will post pics of the install as soon as they get their unit.

Kenco

12-23-2003, 05:25 PM

Canzoomer

I know you are very busy, but did you get my PM?

BTW

Merry Xmas:D

ncsuteg

12-24-2003, 12:43 AM

I have a few questions. A buddy of mine that I worked with had a chipped Passat. Whenever he had to take the car to the dealer he would just take out the mod chip that he had for it. This was not a once a week thing just whenever neccassery. Reading the instructions above it looks like this is physically not that big of a deal to do, would it be bad, or leave a record of it being there though?

Also since we are making the car run leaner, it logically follows that the gas mileage should improve, does it?

Now as a new CSC graduate that loves cars and to tinker with them I want to say thank you. I do not own an rx8 at this time but if your hard work on this pans out I may soon. Mazda should, but wont, send you a royalty check for my purchase.

97 gsr

EDIT: Oh and have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

I will but I will be on my honeymoon.....

Sin

12-24-2003, 01:24 AM

Just found out I should be getting it no later than the 15th of 04!!!! Happy Holidays

syntrix

12-24-2003, 01:29 AM

Maniac

12-24-2003, 01:31 AM

Originally posted by Omicron
Not much to installing it:

* Remove positive battery cable
* Remove ECU cover (1 bolt)
* Unplug ECU
* Plug ECU mod in where main ECU used to be plugged in
* Plug main ecu into ecu mod
* Close ECU cover
* Reconnect battery cover
Pretty simple. Besides, I'm sure someone will post pics of the install as soon as they get their unit.

Uh, almost.
NEGATIVE battery cable
3 bolts and two cable clips for the ECU cover
You will need to pull at least TWO of the five ECU harness plugs.

I doubt it will even be quite that simple - Canzoomer has figured out a way to put the mod box inside the ECU box. That can't be on top because the top of the ECU itself is very close to the lid. You will probably have to unscrew the 3 bolts that hold the ECU in the box itself and lift it out of the way to put the mod box underneath.

i3man

12-24-2003, 05:20 AM

Originally posted by Genom
This will be the absolute best 500 bucks spent on the car IMHO powerwise.

You mean the $70 I'm spending on my all-season floor mats isn't the best money I'm spending on my 8?:p

DoobyWho

12-24-2003, 11:16 AM

i'm still awaiting his email :(

shebam

12-24-2003, 11:35 AM

“Maurice”*

Maurice, your fans are waiting, Maurice
And salivating, to spark
Our 8’s rotating
And Z’s will fall as we install

We’ll moon with flared rear fenders
The Boxters in the benders,
For revs we are big spenders,
Maurice, won’t you please ship to me.

*Apologies to Irving Berlin, Tommy Dorsey, and most on the Forum, who are too young to know who either of them were. See http://www.lyricsfreak.com/i/irving-berlin/68131.html.

r0tor

12-24-2003, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by Jhouse
HMMMMM.....

AUDI.........MAZDA

Oh i get it THEY ARE 2 TOTALLY DIFFERENT CARS, I am just outraged by this discovery. All this time i thought i could go out and buy an audi mod chip to put in my mazda.

I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO COMPARE PRICES, MODS ,OR ANYHTHING ELSE FOR THIS CAR TO A TOTALLY f%^#^$ DIFFERENT CAR.

p.s. AHHH i feel better now.

no shit they are 2 different cars... ahh stupid me thinking I could use the same chip. you are a jack---.

i sorry but a chip costs they same amount to produce if its for a audi, mazda, or porsche. There is money spent for development, but the audi example they cracked the entire Motec engine management system - one of the most complex in the industry buddy, and not just the fuel system. Another example is in another forum here where for $750 he got similar hp results and something that is completely reprogrammable for every mod he installs in the future!

...maybe I'm the only one who is tired of being overcharged for every f$&*^g part for this car....

Omicron

12-24-2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Maniac
Uh, almost.
NEGATIVE battery cable
3 bolts and two cable clips for the ECU cover
You will need to pull at least TWO of the five ECU harness plugs.

I doubt it will even be quite that simple - Canzoomer has figured out a way to put the mod box inside the ECU box. That can't be on top because the top of the ECU itself is very close to the lid. You will probably have to unscrew the 3 bolts that hold the ECU in the box itself and lift it out of the way to put the mod box underneath. Yeah yeah. :D My point was that it will be pretty simple to install, and almost anyone could do it.

...chuckle...

Speed Racer

12-24-2003, 04:10 PM

Pr0ber,

Chill out a little bit. Canzoomer was overly optimistic when he originally quoted $500 for his fuel controller and at that price it barely covers the cost of manufacturing the unit. If you are interested in the details you should really contact Maurice.

Also as a sign of good faith he is offering the unit to early adopters at the original price. How is that for customer service? ;)

i3man

12-24-2003, 04:59 PM

Is this something that you could take off before taking the 8 in for warranty work and the dealer would never know you were using it?

Maniac

12-24-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by i3man
Is this something that you could take off before taking the 8 in for warranty work and the dealer would never know you were using it?

**** READ THE THREAD ! !

amartin

12-24-2003, 08:24 PM

I'd like get be on the waiting list and/or order the Stage-1 kit, if there's still room or availibity.

-- Aaron

(acmartin@yahoo.com)

canzoomer

12-25-2003, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by i3man
Is this something that you could take off before taking the 8 in for warranty work and the dealer would never know you were using it?

Yes, takes under 15 minutes.
A 10mm socket
A pair of small pliers
A rag to remove fingerprints.

neit_jnf

12-25-2003, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by canzoomer
A rag to remove fingerprints.

use latex gloves and you don't have to worry about fingerprints

XK4

12-25-2003, 06:33 AM

Guess I was a good boy this year. Santa-Mama let me fax my order to Canzoomer this morning. :D

Merry Christmas Y'all!

-Dave

amartin

12-25-2003, 02:19 PM

Just faxed my order over... Merry Christmas to myself... (An RX-8 and an ECU mod in under 24hrs..not a bad way to start off the new year, err..finish the old one anyway)

DoobyWho

12-25-2003, 04:59 PM

I wanna fax :( i coulda sworn i was one of the first to email. lol.

canzoomer

12-25-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by DoobyWho
I wanna fax :( i coulda sworn i was one of the first to email. lol.

Sorry. If you did not get the confirmation email with the order form, please email me now and I will correct that.

Tim Benton

12-25-2003, 11:29 PM

I think Jhouse has i right...why complain about a 750 mod when you just bought a $30,000 car. If your that strapped for cash, then getting a $500+ car payment and higher insurance premium wasn't the best decision.

Tim

canzoomer

12-26-2003, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by Tim Benton
I think Jhouse has i right...why complain about a 750 mod when you just bought a $30,000 car. If your that strapped for cash, then getting a $500+ car payment and higher insurance premium wasn't the best decision.

Tim
I was offered the buyback on my 8.

I almost took them up on it, until I realized that a comparable car, like an S2000, G35C, 350X, Audi TT, etc. would all cost me a LOT more money.

The RX-8 is a steal.
If you want more power $750 is trivial.

Heck, I get about 6 guys a week buying illuminated shift knobs from me at $235 a crack!

ZoomZoom

12-26-2003, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by canzoomer

Heck, I get about 6 guys a week buying illuminated shift knobs from me at $235 a crack!

Hey CZ, does it come with english installation instructions?

LL7

12-26-2003, 10:02 AM

How much power does the shift knob get you ;-> I assume it is for show.

Do you have any dyno graphs yet, or before and after graphs with the G-tech?

RX-8 friend

12-26-2003, 01:12 PM

Well, yesterday we installed what appears to be the final prototype in Canzoomer's car. It now includes a switch on the side of the box to select Stage 0 (stock) or Stage 1. Access to switch by opening ECU box. Best news for us was it fits and works fine.

As for the dyno I'll have to let Canzoomer comment. I think we now know how to dyno without upsetting the ECU into limp mode.

How to Dyno an RX-8:
1. Find an understanding dyno operator.
2. Drive up to the dyno but not onto it.
3. Slide under the rear of the car and remove the bolt on each rear hub that holds the ABS sensor in.
4. Back the car onto the dyno drums.
5. While strapping the car in place (recommended) pull out each sensor and tape it up out of the way of moving parts.
6. Do your dyno tests, but keep them less than 15 sec. duration. Turn off the car between tests.
7. When done, and while unstrapping the car, wipe off each sensor and reinsert.
8. Pull off dyno and reinstall sensor bolts. I say do this "on the floor" because if you drop one of those bolts into the dyno rollers and don't have a replacement, you will have to leave your car there until you can get a bolt.

If you dyno once a year or so, this will suffice. If you are developing a race car you may want an "ABS fooler", which we hope to have available in a month. You will still be limited to about 15 sec. runs, but at least there is no messing around with sensors every time.

Hymee discovered the EPS (power steering) gets upset too - thus the 15 sec. limit. Thanks Hymee!

This car is so paranoid! Guess that's why it saved the posters life on the RX-8 Discussion area. Great job Mazda!

compaddict

12-26-2003, 03:23 PM

Good stuff!

Again thanks for the real answers and solutions.

Vince

Tim Benton

12-26-2003, 05:31 PM

How do you limit a dyno run to 15 sec roughly? From the time you start rolling in 1st gear to the WOT run in 4th is more than 15 sec. Or are you talking about 15 sec in 4th gear?

Tim

jtimbck2

12-26-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
Well, yesterday we installed what appears to be the final prototype in Canzoomer's car. It now includes a switch on the side of the box to select Stage 0 (stock) or Stage 1. Access to switch by opening ECU box. Best news for us was it fits and works fine.

I'm confused -- I thought it was already shipping, yet you're still talking about prototypes?

Not that I'm anxious about anything ... I'm quite willing to wait a bit longer if it means getting a higher quality product! I like the sounds of being able to switch the ECU mod on and off, rather than having to install and uninstall it.

RX-8 friend

12-26-2003, 11:47 PM

Well, anything before volume production (for fitting, final testing, etc.) I call a prototype. I guess you could now call it the first production unit. Production assy. starts right now because it fit and still worked. The only thing we had to prove is that we could make it fit in the ECU box and that the final case was ok. The electronics has been working in a few cars for a while now.

Tim, you normally don't shift gears on a dyno. You put it in one gear and let the engine spin up the dyno at full throttle to redline or beyond. It only takes 4-5 sec.

canzoomer

12-27-2003, 02:58 PM

We are assembling units literally as we speak.

I had sent out a few before Christmas, and we received a batch of the metal cases we are now using on the 19th.

Unfortunately the lid were wrong and I got corrected ones on the 23rd.

We are building, and expect to be shipping more complete units on Monday, the 29th, when the couriers resume pickups here.

emack

12-27-2003, 03:25 PM

Hey cz, Merry Christmas! Any idea how far down the list I am.

Thanks.

rxtreme

12-27-2003, 08:26 PM

Well, yesterday we installed what appears to be the final prototype in Canzoomer's car. It now includes a switch on the side of the box to select Stage 0 (stock) or Stage 1. Access to switch by opening ECU box. Best news for us was it fits and works fine.

So will all the units assembled/shipped after the 26th have this feature? I assume the ones already shipped didn't have that switch. Will mine have it?

-Joe

Hymee

12-28-2003, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by RX-8 friend
Hymee discovered the EPS (power steering) gets upset too - thus the 15 sec. limit. Thanks Hymee!

Thanks friend! I think Wildcard timed the DynoLog runs at 12s in 4th gear - from 75km/h to 195km/h. That is the actual power run itself, not the settling "drive" leading up to it.

And the 13.7 (or whatever it was - too many pages ago...) is an awesomely great time. Anything in the 13's makes it onto the Aussie LS1 "Quick List". And from what I read about the accuracy of the G-tech, that would be pretty close to a certified strip measured time. Lucky you guys get cold air! You might even get better on an actual prepped strip.

I believe CZ and his team are making a very consious effort to deliver a high quality product, that has recieved lots of R&D time. It also appears to be a product that will deliver what people are expecting. It is quite an responsibility on CZ's part to believe enough in this product to be willing to put in the engines of people from right around the world.

I wish the CZ team all the best in this venture. I may ask some "hard" questions at times, and CZ has answered them admirably. Some may know that I am choosing a different approach to tuning, but that is not because I don't believe in this product. I do belive in it, and I will even be assisting some Aussie members with their setups, testing, and "certification". I have my own trusted "contacts" in the performance tuning area, and I will be utilizing them. I think my first tuning effort will essentially be functionally, and practically similar to CZ's unit.

It is really good to see the potential unleashed in this car.

Good work CZ and supporters.

Cheers,
Hymee.

BTW Canzoomer - How is your clutch holding up?

Jhouse

12-29-2003, 10:56 AM

PROBER,

If you are tired of paying high prices for your 8 then i suggest you quit looking for stuff right now, its a new car i mean shit if you want parts NOW!!!!!, then you should have saved yourself the headache and bought yourself a damn CIVIC.
Quit your complaining and go buy a honda that has 14000 parts out for it already or just sit back and watch the parts come out for your 8 and by next year sometime you just might be able to go buy yourself a 15k dollar turbo setup and get yourself a whopping 50 horsepower out of it and then BANG your car is dead after the first time you get your panties in a bind out on the streat after a car REV's you at the light and you crank your turbos up and pop your shit.
I can hear it now RRREVVVVVVVV REEEVVVVVV

BOOOM BOOOOOOM BANG FIZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

I have been off work for about a week now so i am a little anry so i thought it would be a great opportunity to take it out on you.

WWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gordonp

12-29-2003, 01:39 PM

Does anybody know if there is a formal order process yet. I am ready to order a Stage 1 for my 8.

Thanks

Lock & Load

12-29-2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Jhouse
PROBER,

If you are tired of paying high prices for your 8 then i suggest you quit looking for stuff right now, its a new car i mean shit if you want parts NOW!!!!!, then you should have saved yourself the headache and bought yourself a damn CIVIC.
Quit your complaining and go buy a honda that has 14000 parts out for it already or just sit back and watch the parts come out for your 8 and by next year sometime you just might be able to go buy yourself a 15k dollar turbo setup and get yourself a whopping 50 horsepower out of it and then BANG your car is dead after the first time you get your panties in a bind out on the streat after a car REV's you at the light and you crank your turbos up and pop your shit.
I can hear it now RRREVVVVVVVV REEEVVVVVV

BOOOM BOOOOOOM BANG FIZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

I have been off work for about a week now so i am a little anry so i thought it would be a great opportunity to take it out on you.

WWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to hear about your job loss , love your explanation on anger management to prober. he he he.

Hope everithing works out for you in the new year , happy new year ,
michael

Jhouse

12-29-2003, 02:42 PM

no no on LL i have been on vacation for the past 5 days for Christmas so i am a little wound up, i will be off for another 5 days this week so i am sur i will be in the same mood next monday.

BRx8

12-29-2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Jhouse
no no on LL i have been on vacation for the past 5 days for Christmas so i am a little wound up, i will be off for another 5 days this week so i am sur i will be in the same mood next monday.

this is how you are when relaxing on vacation? i wonder how you are when you do lose a job...

Jhouse

12-29-2003, 03:54 PM

i have had the same job for 7 years now...i too would hate to see what it would be like. i honestly think i would kill someone.....ha hah hahahahhah maybe the sucker that has to let me go. I do have a .45 full auto oozie just sitting around awaiting a good use.

HIJACK ALERT!!!!

Maniac

12-29-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Jhouse
I do have a .45 full auto oozie just sitting around awaiting a good use.

The Uzi is 9mm.

However, I'm sure a .45 ACP 1911 would get the job done just fine even though it is a semi auto.

Jhouse

12-29-2003, 05:22 PM

uhh thats bullshit because my uzi is a .45 regardless of what hollywood has made it out to be they made it in a .45 and a 9mm get your shit right.

Maniac

12-29-2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Jhouse
uhh thats bullshit because my uzi is a .45 regardless of what hollywood has made it out to be they made it in a .45 and a 9mm get your shit right.

Uh, no.

Israel Military Industries only manufactures the Uzi carbine in 9mm parabellum.
There are some re-chambered Uzi-type weapons in .45 and even in other calibers (.22 and .38 come to mind), but they aren't actual Uzis.
These days, IMI makes 4 models: Uzi SMG, Mini Uzi SMG, Micro Uzi SMG and the Uzi Pistol. All 4 are 9mm. The pistol isn't even available in full auto.
I don't even think the H&K or Ingram are available in .45 ACP.

I went upstairs and pulled the bolt on mine just to remind myself of how off the .45 would look if you tried to chamber a round.
No Hollywood in this house.;)
What is the stamping on the rail of the weapon you have there?

sferrett

12-29-2003, 06:30 PM

Apparently my earlier post here asking the off-topic discussion to be moved has made me a "prick".

So instead of me being a prick and asking that something way off topic in a sticky thread be moved, here's something actually helpful.

The new thread regarding the Uzi is here:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=205772

Cheers,
Simon.

Omicron

12-29-2003, 08:54 PM

Ok guys, that's enough... let's keep this thread on topic. Please take the gun discussion to the lounge. Thanks...

Maniac

12-29-2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Omicron
Ok guys, that's enough... let's keep this thread on topic. Please take the gun discussion to the lounge. Thanks...

Day late and a dollar short!:p

Omicron

12-29-2003, 11:14 PM

Yep, I know, I was just making sure it had really moved.

SO, back on topic...

Canzoomer, how many units have you shipped now??? :D

Maniac

12-29-2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Omicron
SO, back on topic...

Canzoomer, how many units have you shipped now??? :D

Based on how quiet the list has been, I'd venture to guess:

NONE

Genom

12-30-2003, 01:15 AM

Or as Maurice mentioned earlier, some had shipped befor x-mas season set in, and today (29th) another batch was going out. So a few peeps should be getting their units as soon as this week with any luck.

Guess ya guesed wrong Maniac :)

Omicron

12-30-2003, 01:16 AM

Yeah, he did say some had shipped, hence my question of how many. :)

loco4rx8

12-30-2003, 07:36 AM

Were the dyno numbers ever posted, or did I miss it?

mdw33333

12-30-2003, 08:12 AM

I faxed in my order on Dec. 26th, and still haven't received confirmation that it got there. I e-mailed canzoomer and still haven't heard back. I'd just like to know if my order went through.

Shooter

12-30-2003, 09:22 AM

CZ, i emailed you about placing an order nad havent heard from you yet. Let me know if you got my email.......

claude4

12-30-2003, 11:01 AM

I apologize in adcnace if the question has been answered already but there was mention that the price for Mod1 will go up after the 1st of the year and I missed what that price w/b.

I am interested in getting this mod but cannot do so until the New Year.

Can anyone enlighten me/us?

Thanks,

Claude H.

HottRodder

12-30-2003, 11:21 AM

post 1/1/04 = $750

DJ Freon

12-30-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Shooter
CZ, i emailed you about placing an order nad havent heard from you yet. Let me know if you got my email.......

I'm in the same boat. I want to make sure I get it at the $500 price, and I haven't heard anything.

Canzoomer, if you're out there, we are eagerly awaiting a response. No rush, but I don't want to have to pay more because my order didn't get processed until the New Year. I think I speak for the few that are trying to order right at the deadline.

vix8

12-30-2003, 03:28 PM

He might be overwhelmed with orders at this point, as I'm in the same situation...

gordonp

12-30-2003, 04:13 PM

I am in the same situtation as well. Faxed an order, but no confirmation yet.

DJ Freon

12-30-2003, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by gordonp
I am in the same situtation as well. Faxed an order, but no confirmation yet.

If anyone has the fax order form could you post a link to it? I would like to do more than just email him if at all possible...

RX-8 friend

12-30-2003, 06:42 PM

We're a bit busy right now. Redoing the floor in his living room, building units, etc. Your orders will be processed in the order received. As for shipping, I'm not sure as I work at home building the units up. There are others working at his shop as well. If they haven't gone out already there should be a bunch going out real soon.

rx8daniel

12-31-2003, 12:07 PM

as far as I know, I've been on the 'list' for a unit since around 11/13. I notice some say they've faxed, or ordered - anyone want to share a fax# or order form if they have one?

Genom

12-31-2003, 04:38 PM

I too thought I was on the list but didnt get an email when Is aw others getting it. I emailed maurice and he sent me a pdf for placing the order. If ya give me an email I'll throw it your way, or you can email maurice as well.

DALE A BREDE

01-01-2004, 05:18 PM

Hi Canzoomer, new member in Australia. I have been reading the Aussie site and see that I can order your stage 1. Can you tell me how i can place the order with you.

Regards
Dale.

Digisan

01-04-2004, 01:46 AM

I heard the $500 cut-off is on the 15th of this month is that true? I know canz' is busy working on his office but I would be disappointed if I lost out on the $500 deal because he didn't have access to the web.

Hymee

01-04-2004, 02:36 AM

I thought the $500 cut off was EOY 2003 anyway?

Genom

01-04-2004, 11:17 AM

Maurice posted multiple times that end of 2003 was the last chance for the 500 buck price. Anything past new years is 750.

U. N. O.

01-05-2004, 01:15 AM

something i don't think anyone has asked yet to this wonderful mode... and that is still a big issue for many.. what about gas milage? it is bad enough at 18mpg stock. By having this mode and not being able to just 'switch' to normal settings, a lot of people will suffer in their mpg averages (being lower) in a "permanent " way . I mean it will really stinck for daily drivers .

Please CZ when ever you have a chance to address this issue will be appreciated.

Also if this mode worsens the mpg average, much worse will be when ever someone wants to combine it with a turbo or SC . i mean will it be really worth it to drop to who knows 11-13 mpg for a perfomance lower than other cars (IE S2000, G35. evo, sti, Z4, 3 series,TT cuatro, etc)? and after all that money?
Please CZ i am not trash talking your product or anything like that, i mean u r the first doing this and releasing it, is wonderful and i admire you for doing this since it is as a hobby in ur spare time but u and the rest know me, always playing the devils advocate in things, nothing personal just as curiosity and infornation sake is that i am asking this.

BRx8

01-05-2004, 01:27 AM

i was hoping it'd be the same MPG or even better since the original spec was supposed to be 247hp @ 19MPG and the hack job Mazda did reprogramming the ECU basically decreased both at the same time...please don't tell me i'll be getting worse mileage than before

MPG > HP

01-05-2004, 02:39 AM

I agree with the previous posts. I'd be more than happy to pay $750 for an ECU mod that "restored" my RX-8 to 250HP and 18-24 MPG. I wrote CZ a few months back on this, but never got a reply. Seems like the main motivation is raw HP and MPG be damned. Can't see how anyone can ignore the importance of "good" MPG numbers. After all, I'm sure most of us early buyers were counting on the "original" mid-2003 performance numbers and can't quite get over wondering what this car would be like in "performance" and not "EPA" trim. If it means buying a new cat every few years what the heck, if that's what it takes, then so be it!

Genom

01-05-2004, 09:30 AM

Maurice also mentioned that under 4000RPM you wont see any difference in power/mileage. However above that you will see leaner mixes so better mileage (very little though) that will most likely be negated by all the zoom zooming around your gonna be doing :D

brothervoodoo

01-05-2004, 12:28 PM

This piggyback ECU leans the fuel at something beyond 5000rpm, so you may experience benefits on gas mileage at higher RPM than before. But if you hotdog it more than you did before, I wouldn't expect any significant gains. Maurice mentioned many times that at lower RPM's the car is already lean enough and didn't expect any mileage gains. Really, no one is going to know until a bunch of people buy the unit and start reporting results....

U. N. O.

01-05-2004, 12:39 PM

u seem to not get the essence of the question..

yeah there might not be much difference if u keep the car at 4000 or under but been realistic, no one keeps the revs like that for a long time, not even for 1/2 tank unless done on pourpose to proof something, but normal driving, we all know that the car is driven to atleast 5.500 b4 shifting. Running the car leaner will make consumption a bit less since there is no more excess gas going in but at the same time it make the car rev faster as our notion of movement will make our press on that gas pedal further down. He mention that there will be a change in the air/fuel mix, that might make for more consumption. if there is the same fuel amount coming in and more air (learner) will produce more power yet same/ more consumption..

Lock & Load

01-05-2004, 01:23 PM

U.N.O.

Maurice also mentioned a possible saving in fuel because there would not be a need to change gears down from 6th to 4th which can be a hard gear to change into in order to get a boost in power to overtake.etc

With the stage 1 kit installed a change from 6th to 5th which is a lot easier to change into would be enough to give you equivelant if not greater power than a 6th to 4th gear change.

As far as people who are interested in extra HP / KW gains most id say dont give a rats ass as to the yearly difference in fuel comsumtion cost , which may differ by $1000 -$1500 dollars.per annum, over normal fuel costs.

I am currently spending average $55 Australian dollars per week petrol for my RX8 if that figure increased to an extra $28 (being over 50%) per /week (which i doubt very much ) it would still be reasonable .

Dont expect to buy a sports orrientated high reving performance car and not have to use any fuel to run it especially if you want more power.

If you or others cant afford the running costs of the rx8 clearly you have overspent beyond your means and should not have bought the RX8.

Giving or taking out your Fustrations on MAURICE wont help anyone .

"DONT WORRY BE HAPPY"

RX-8 friend

01-05-2004, 01:48 PM

I would expect slightly better fuel economy. As I've said elsewhere, the prototypes were installed in cars just as winter started here (October), so comments on fuel use would be useless. I would expect the differences to be perhaps 5-10%, which would be lost in environmental variables if you were trying to compare.

russgriz

01-05-2004, 08:29 PM

I don't own an RX-8 yet but I have read this entire thread in anticipation of when I get one, and I seem to recall that the latest version of cz's mod would allow switching between his chip and the stock chip by pressing a switch. I also need to echo the others who point out the obvious...this is a performance car! I own a 97 saturn SC and a 2003 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP and if I drive my Saturn like a grandma I get 24 mpg but when I hot-rod for a whole tank I can get as little as 16 mpg. If I could add 20 HP to my Saturn just by changing a chip I just have to ask myself, 24 mpg or 16 mpg? Chip or no chip? Do I want a sports car or not? If I wanna hot-rod now, I'll drive the GTP, enjoy the supercharger in it and not bitch about the low mpg later. No brainer.

Omicron

01-05-2004, 08:46 PM

While this mod is switchable, it will not be cockpit switchable. You'll have to open the ECU cover to get to it, and most likely, disconnect the battery before you switch it. Then after you've switched and reconnected the battery, you'll have to drive the car for a bit for the ECU to "relearn" what it's parameters are supposed to be.

russgriz

01-05-2004, 09:31 PM

Thanks for the clarification Omicron. :)

RX-8 friend

01-06-2004, 12:43 PM

Actually Omicron, I don't think you would have to disconnect the battery. The switch just moves one sensor from "through" the Stage 1 electronics to around it. Just make sure the engine is off. ECU should not have to "relearn" either. In other words, there is no power running through the switch.

Because the electronics is now in the ECU box, there is a bit more that has to be done there to make room for it than has been discussed up to now. Here is a preliminary install procedure:

1. Disconnect battery -ve cable.
2. Remove ECU box lid (three bolts, release plastic clips for lid and for air cooling system, release 2 plastic cable clamps).
3. Remove 4 ECU metal bracket bolts.
4. Carefully lift ECU and cooler assy. and unplug all cables - remove ECU and take metal brackets off ECU. Put all unneeded parts in zip lock bag and store in car.
5. Release plastic clips and remove top ECU cooler assy. Install supplied filters in bottom cooler assy.
6. Plug Stage 1 module into ECU and insert Stage 1 module ECU and ECU lower cooler into box and plug in three connectors to Stage 1 module and other two connectors left into ECU. Ensure Stage 1 box switch is in "1" position. Make sure the cooler pipes are correctly over the intake/outlet.
7. Replace ECU box lid ensuring ECU and Stage 1 box are appropriately arranged. It's tight in there so they will not slide around. Cooling should actually be improved by removing top cooling piece.
8. Reinstall cable clips, ensure ECU lid clips are ok, connect battery -ve.
9. Start engine. If it will not start, check the ECU and stage 1 plugs - if one is not installed properly the engine will not start.
10. Enjoy.

There will be pictures in the instructions as well. Note that I wrote that from my memory of what we did to Canzoomer's car. We will be doing a "virgin" car and photographing and rewriting the above, as there may be other warnings or a slightly different order of events to make it easier.

I noticed that there are a bunch of modules ready to ship, so we just have to "polish up" the instructions and sort out a few details before they go out. We want them all to be "right" before they go out the door. We are actually still improving the assembly (cable protection, labeling etc.).

For those who think this a bit disconcerting, the Apex'i Power FC install in my car had no install instructions other than "cut these wires and plug it in", and everyone just figured it out themselves. We wanted something a bit better.

Yes, we're late. No, they will not go out till we're satisfied they are "right". We're real close now.