I'm going to keep it simple. I have 54,000k on my car. It's in good runing condition. Compression feels good. It gets drivin EVERYDAY! Its a daily. at least 12k to 16k a year. Do you guys believe its worth to go TURBO?

compression "feels" good? I hope when you say "feel" you mean it feels good when looking at a compression gauge displaying decent numbers.

Honestly, odds are about even you'll blow your motor with 10 or 100,000 miles.... so I would say go for it.

It is all in the tune.

It's always worth it to go turbo. I would recommend getting your compression actually checked beforehand.
Many people DD their turbo'd 8's. There will be more things to keep an eye on however. It does complicate things a bit....but hey, might as well enjoy the car.

If you go turbo (or hymee supercharge ;) ) have a couple grand on the side incase of a rebuilt, especially since its a daily.

or keep a spare on hand ^_^, i plan on daily driving mine when complete, i second checking compression before though, nothing like voiding your warrenty with a engine that needs to be replaced first

Ok so I will definitly get the compression checked. Now the engine is still under warenty till 80'000k right. So a compression test should be free with a lack of power complaint?

I'm going to keep it simple. I have 54,000k on my car. It's in good runing condition. Compression feels good. It gets drivin EVERYDAY! Its a daily. at least 12k to 16k a year. Do you guys believe its worth to go TURBO?

Yes, provided it's done in a conservative manner and is setup well. No eBay SS-Autochrome garbage and no hackjobs to try and make it turbo quickly.

B

there's SO much more to this question.
- are you good at working on cars?
- What is your budget for the entire project? Whatever it is, add $1500 to it because things will come up
- Do you have another car to drive while you install the turbo?
- Are you good at diagnosing problems?
- What do you want out of your turbo? 400whp, 300whp?

I could keep going but this'll give you something to think about...

Ok so I will definitly get the compression checked. Now the engine is still under warenty till 80'000k right. So a compression test should be free with a lack of power complaint?


i believe its 100k 8 years. i know they charge 200 for the test at the dealer but i would also like to know if i have a complaint of lack of power if they will check it for free. that would be awesome. i have 77k miles

If you need to second guess yourself, it's probably not the best idea..

But if you want to, may as well. You only live once, do what you want :)

dude, we will talk, come once awhile in the meeting , and we can make a list what you need to buy and how to support it. in otherwords, you have to have extra money, just prepare it. as you know, it's now only turbo, but if you wanna play save, do it carefully and do it slowly, everything will be fine. if you believe that your motor is healthy, then turbo it. pm me or call me, we can talk man.
steven

there's SO much more to this question.
- are you good at working on cars?

-------Yes I am.

- What is your budget for the entire project? Whatever it is, add $1500 to it because things will come up.

-------what ever it cost to do it right. I even want to go as far as HDAI.

- Do you have another car to drive while you install the turbo?

--------Yes I do.

- Are you good at diagnosing problems?

-------Yes.

- What do you want out of your turbo? 400whp, 300whp?

-------350whp.

I could keep going but this'll give you something to think about...

dude, we will talk, come once awhile in the meeting , and we can make a list what you need to buy and how to support it. in otherwords, you have to have extra money, just prepare it. as you know, it's now only turbo, but if you wanna play save, do it carefully and do it slowly, everything will be fine. if you believe that your motor is healthy, then turbo it. pm me or call me, we can talk man.
steven

Steven, I sent you a email on the subject. Check it out.

I would never recommend putting a turbo on any nonturbo car (rotary or otherwise) if you depend on it exclusively. If you are still making payments on this and it's your only car, stop right now.

I would never recommend putting a turbo on any nonturbo car (rotary or otherwise)

Huh?

I would never recommend putting a turbo on any nonturbo car (rotary or otherwise) if you depend on it exclusively. If you are still making payments on this and it's your only car, stop right now.


Whats up! Thanks for your help getting me on the forum.

I have a 323 GTX and I put a NA 1.8 BP engine out of a 92 protege LX, I didn't have problems with that engine till I ran 18 psi on pump gas. Not too bad for a untouched non turbo converted turbo engine with 130K miles :D.

My thoughts on a rotary compression. If the compression is low (70 psi on each face), its okay to run it turbocharged. My FD had terrible compression right on the 70 mark on the front and 75-80 on the back lol. It made 435 RWHP. It had 100K mile rotor housings and the irons had 150 K on them when I was done. You just have to run more boost to compensate for the low compression. If you have a higher milage engine the apex seals get more brittle after around 60K miles. If you keep the boost down below 10-12, you should be okay if it is tuned properly.

Bryan@BNR

Steven, I sent you a email on the subject. Check it out.

dude, i didn't get anything from you....call me
steven

If you turbo this car, plan on needing a new engine within 50k miles.

You might be in luck with the Mazda Maniac turbo upgrade & find it more reliable, but to be on the safe side, plan on blowing engines.

If you guys blow your engines so much, just put a REW in. Screw all this cant boost it stuff...

^^^
Nothing wrong with using the Renesis for boost.

If you guys blow your engines so much, just put a REW in. Screw all this cant boost it stuff...

:) i think a lot of people dont understand that this motor isnt "special" if you cant make this one last XXXXX miles, odds are you couldnt make an REW last it either. its a combination of people not knowing what they are doing well enough, and up until a while back, tuning limitations and a lot of junk being used

^^^
Nothing wrong with using the Renesis for boost.

he knows :) just tired of hearing ppl complain about how this motor is so special and cant be boosted like the older rotaries....

You guys read too much. I boost and my car is strong. I think some people make this engine out to be more sensitive to boost than it really is. As Kane said, tuning is everything. With MM and the Cobb AP there is no reason not to go FI. Happy driving.

OK well DUDES I'm meeting with STEVEn tonight to get the plan going for the turbo upgrade. I should be making my first purchase next week on the INT-X...

why int-x? what type of turbo setup are you going with? the only reason for buying the int-x anymore is if you have the esmeril turbo kit

Cobb all the way!!!!

The Cobb has made all the other EMS solutions totally obsolete.

It remaps the factory ECU to chase new targets instead of the piggyback stuff.

The Int-X and Xede are the next best thing, since they at least take full control of spark and fuel.

No one has yet managed 50k+ miles on a turbo Renesis. Every blown engine is due to a failure of the rear (apex) seal. That's 100% as far as I know. Many suspect there's cooling problems, especially with a turbo sitting so close to the rear housing.

The last engine I popped was tuned very conservatively AND I was running 2 gallons of 104 race gas with every tank. No pings did I hear. Blew anyway.

Maybe with a top-mount turbo along with a correctly-sized turbo + Accessport, we'll see some reliability. Maybe. But just count on a new engine if you FI.

If the REW could be made cost-effective AND able to pass CA emissions, then I'd sell a kidney to finance the swap.

Im working with steven to build a turbo setup as similar to his as posible. If I cant find the parts seperatly then i will most likely purchase a full kit from SFR or PTP.

I would advise to buy a complete kit to avoid a lot of head aches. Trust me, chasing down stupid little parts is annoying and it adds up, quick.

Also, everyone says they want 350-rwhp, but that's a lot. That's nearly double the power you have now- work your way up to it. The car will feel hella fast with "just" 280-rwhp.

I would also strongly consider the Cobb AP. It is a little difficult with the MAF, but not that bad. Well worth it. Also some kind of ignition upgrade is advised, as well as cooling upgrades.

^listen to this man!

he knows :) just tired of hearing ppl complain about how this motor is so special and cant be boosted like the older rotaries....


yeah I know:eyetwitch. I have a hard time seeing that much power out of the side exhaust port design. That is a lot of heat blowing past the side seals. Most of the heat in the older wanker motors is concentrated in the middle of the apex seal and the double apex springs are capable of handling 1700F EGT's. The side seal and corner seal springs are the first to collapse b/c of excessive heat because they are so tiny.

No one has yet managed 50k+ miles on a turbo Renesis. Every blown engine is due to a failure of the rear (apex) seal. That's 100% as far as I know.

neither are true, and the second one isnt even close

fear mongering by the uninformed.. ftw. =/

neither are true, and the second one isnt even close

Really? OK then, give me the examples of 50k+ miles FI & also of blown turbo Renesis engines that had a front rotor/seal failure instead of rear.

Go on then.

fear mongering by the uninformed.. ftw. =/

I've been on this board since early 2005 & read every turbo thread. I also have a degree in Nuclear Engineering from MIT.

...how about you?

I lol'd

Really? OK then, give me the examples of 50k+ miles FI & also of blown turbo Renesis engines that had a front rotor/seal failure instead of rear.

Go on then.

none that i'm aware of to quote from the forum here, and since this forum obviously encompasses the entirety of all RX-8 enthusiasts worldwide, i'll just go ahead and say you're right to avoid a stupid argument.

Every blown engine is due to a failure of the rear (apex) seal. That's 100% as far as I know.

as for this, the apex seals are not always the culpirt as is famous in previous rotaries. factors like port location, cooling, etc make the side seals a weaker link - and the trend thus far is that side seals are most problematic. in fact, the apex seals are tremendously more forgiving than those of an RE/REW.

and btw there have been front rotor failures reported here as well


I lol'd

me too

none that i'm aware of to quote from the forum here, and since this forum obviously encompasses the entirety of all RX-8 enthusiasts worldwide, i'll just go ahead and say you're right to avoid a stupid argument.

as for this, the apex seals are not always the culpirt as is famous in previous rotaries. factors like port location, cooling, etc make the side seals a weaker link - and the trend thus far is that side seals are most problematic. in fact, the apex seals are tremendously more forgiving than those of an RE/REW.

and btw there have been front rotor failures reported here as well

me too

OK, so let's generate some quantitative data. You can start with mustering up all the turbo Renesis engines with (1) front rotor failures & (2) non-Apex seal failures.

Also, go ahead and provide the list of all the turbo Renesis engines that have gone more than 50k miles without failure.

Let's have regard for truth and fact. I gave you the data I've gathered. What's your data?

^but you didn't provide proof either, just talking out of your ass really.

I also have a degree in Nuclear Engineering from MIT.


Wow, I didn't know the renesis had a lot in common with a Nuclear device..

MIT = rotatry masters

I would advise to buy a complete kit to avoid a lot of head aches. Trust me, chasing down stupid little parts is annoying and it adds up, quick.

Also, everyone says they want 350-rwhp, but that's a lot. That's nearly double the power you have now- work your way up to it. The car will feel hella fast with "just" 280-rwhp.

I would also strongly consider the Cobb AP. It is a little difficult with the MAF, but not that bad. Well worth it. Also some kind of ignition upgrade is advised, as well as cooling upgrades.

yeah, i am working with him to get the turbo set up, and we are going to get it as a kit, adn we don't wanna be in headache to get stuff to build up a turbo kit.
the cooling system is on the target for sure, and we already have them in mind what we need to make it happen, of course in the end he will have AI. we are talking about radiator, water pump, anything else that help for cooling.

AS far IGNITION, this is really debating, we are looking for the good product, as lately we can see there are a lot of out there, the only thing we can do is waiting to the result from other people experience toward the products.

AS EMS, i don't have any weight among them, but since i am using INT-X, and i have the tuner that can tune it directly, it's better for us to use INT-X. i have seen AP, it is good, but JEFF is a busy guy, cool guy, but if we can be independent and use our tuner to tune the car, i think it will be better route for all type of turbo car.
just incase if we wanna upgrade the turbo or what ever it is, we don't have to wait for JEFF to download teh map, we just can tune it.

chickenwafer, i am not an expert, but i am open for the advice toward the cooling and ignition, if you are willing to share.
i accept the advice from ppl too, and remember that i am not an expert, and we always learn something new.
steven

cooling - BHR/griffin radiator, mazmart water pump, use the AP to alter fan-on temps. these are the absolutes... ultimately you want to introduce water/methanol injection to keep the EGT temps down.

ignition - BHR Yukon coil conversion

ems - as has been said the accessport is the best route.. I say leave the ems purchase till the end.. remember the Cobb street tuner software for the rx8 is just now making it's way into tuners hands

Let's have regard for truth and fact. I gave you the data I've gathered. What's your data?

data? all you did was pull a statement out of your ass that tells me your an educated person who doesnt read too well. but, no thanks, you can believe what you like, i'm not here to teach you anything Mr. MIT. I'll tell you where to look though... failures - start here, then talk to(listen rather) those who rebuild a lot of rennies. FI longevity - your probably gonna have to leave the forum to find, again a good place to start is rebuilders, oh and people who work with race teams.

fwiw the only 2 FI failures that were confirmed apex's(or even corners) i can think of off the top of my head were due to 1) WAY overboosting, and 2) complete lack of tuning.... if your doing things right, you should have side seal longevity failure before apex seal failure

Thanks everyone ESPECIALLY steven; for all the advice. When it comes down to it I am a newbie when it comes to boost. I have been stuffing my brain with knowledge for thae last couple of weeks. Theirs just so much information on these turbo threads; its hard to desiffer opinion from fact.

data? all you did was pull a statement out of your ass that tells me your an educated person who doesnt read too well. but, no thanks, you can believe what you like, i'm not here to teach you anything Mr. MIT. I'll tell you where to look though... failures - start here, then talk to(listen rather) those who rebuild a lot of rennies. FI longevity - your probably gonna have to leave the forum to find, again a good place to start is rebuilders, oh and people who work with race teams.

fwiw the only 2 FI failures that were confirmed apex's(or even corners) i can think of off the top of my head were due to 1) WAY overboosting, and 2) complete lack of tuning.... if your doing things right, you should have side seal longevity failure before apex seal failure

No, I did a survey.

Tell ya what, muster up all those turbo Renesis engines with 50k+ miles boosted and ANY turbo Renesis engines that didn't bugger up something in the rear housing/seals.

Back to the main topic: if you boost this engine, be prepared to replace it before you've clocked 50k miles FI.

I've been on this board since early 2005 & read every turbo thread. I also have a degree in Nuclear Engineering from MIT.


This made me :uhh: then :icon_no2: then :lol: ...its truly sig worthy.

Back to the main topic: if you boost this engine, be prepared to replace it before you've clocked 50k miles FI.

that is good advice. truly you should be prepared to replace it immediately.

that is good advice. truly you should be prepared to replace it immediately.

Damn this sounds almost so depressing. Just thinking about This; I probably will spend some where around 8 grand in the next 3-4 months for a complete turbo setup, with supporting mods, AI, installation, and Tuning. Just to blow a engine and spend a other 2k on a block plus install. all this plus the remander of my loan i might aswell sell the car break even. put a down payment on a BMW M3 which will have the horses im looking for.

No, I did a survey.

Tell ya what, muster up all those turbo Renesis engines with 50k+ miles boosted and ANY turbo Renesis engines that didn't bugger up something in the rear housing/seals.

Back to the main topic: if you boost this engine, be prepared to replace it before you've clocked 50k miles FI.

I just passed 18,000 miles with the supercharger; as of yesterday my car has more supercharged miles than NA miles, and it's still running strong. :dunno:

I think this engine's a lot stronger than some people give it credit for. I'm pretty confident I can go another 32,000 miles without breaking it, even with 13 lbs of boost. I'll get back to you in a couple of years :)

=\ pay the car off first.

mysql has over 20k on boost i belive. and i know of a few that have over 50k and THEN boosted.

so where is your survey? does it have a beaver cover letter?

please guys, just focus on the topic. we are here in the club to help each other, not to put anyone down. everybody has different believes and different experiences, let it be, take it for yourself, and do research about other people experience and make it as your option. it's simple.

o well, about EMS, it's true that the software for tuning will be out soon, but it will be soon, we don't know now that he needs the tuning with his turbo set up. i read a lot of thread toward Major HP, they all have custom turbo built and they use AP, and they are fine.
it's also up to the owner, what he wants to go with....he has options, at least we all give him little paths, now it's his decision to make it, and what ever he will think is convenient.
steven

cooling - BHR/griffin radiator, mazmart water pump, use the AP to alter fan-on temps. these are the absolutes... ultimately you want to introduce water/methanol injection to keep the EGT temps down.

ignition - BHR Yukon coil conversion



they are obsulete, but sometimes the old school always work good, and when it's added with teh newer system , it always work better.
think if we have better radiator + mazmart water pump + turning fan earlier + AI...
after these all, do you think it will be worse than only AI???? it's expensive, but as people say:"if you don't have extra money to play with, don't go turbo, save it for your school or your life"....
As Ignition, we are still thinking about it, and we don't have anybody's product to commit with yet, but we are working on it
steven