HERE IS WHY TO VOTE FOR MR. PRESIDENT, GEORGE W. BUSH:

Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

His presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

His biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months has no leads and zero suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Thank you.

OK now where did you cut and paste this from and why are you not listing your source?

i vote for Bush ....(the female sexual organ).
I vote for Clinton too... (because i love recieve Bl**jobs at office)

Hey! Don't bash our lord and saviour! Such a wonderful man that led the Crusades against the Kurds of the middle east should never be disrespected in such a way!

Lie Father
Lie Son

Oh ya...he saved the world from Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Which would be the oil the have there.

Dang Mental pimp - so serious at 15 years old. Should'nt you be learning how to smoke or be trying to score with the girl next door?

Now someone find the Clinton List, no doubt in my mind that it is bigger and more embarrasing for our country as a whole.

but this forum is not for politics, lets let it stop here.

Embarassing??
You have no idea of the popularity of Clinton in Italy after that episode...like Kennedy!!
President of Italy Republic was completly in Clinton defense in public.

Bet Bush could'nt even get to first base w/ dog like monica lewinski

;) ) dog;) ; monica lewisky:) first base

Originally posted by Matteo
;) ) dog;) ; monica lewisky:) first base


?????? Don't understand

I was laughing and talking at the same time

I'd still like to know where you plagerized this list from? I know you didn't make it.

I wont vote for him. Like i said before (Ever since he became our president we have been in two wars, more people are out of jobs. And his views go towards the church. A long time ago the American people fought for separation of the church and state. Well with the bush administration what we fought for so long ago is irreverent because of how bush and his administration runs this country.

I am happy that saddam was caught. Also u know dam well bush is going to try to get the American peoples vote towards him by using I caught a dictator the USA is safe now bla bla bla.

...just kidding....

That was on an earlier bush thread in the lounge. Mental got it from there. Congrats, Mental, we now agree on something!

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/02/1571566.php

Originally posted by mental pimp
HERE IS WHY TO VOTE FOR MR. PRESIDENT, GEORGE W. BUSH:
Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Whether you like GW Bush or not, this list is the biggest crock of sh!t ever. Anyone who might use this as an argument for or against the incumbent president needs to be sent back to school to learn to separate cause from effect, fact from fiction, and how to properly argue and present a case.

To even hint that GW Bush was in any way responsible for 9/11 is pathetic. To suggest that he is incompetent because bin Laden has not been caught is ridiculous - why aren't you lashing out against Clinton when he refused to authorise strikes that would have killed or captured bin Laden on multiple occasions prior to 9/11?

To suggest that GW Bush is responsible for the economic downturn in the stock market is to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the US and world economies. The governments have little influence, and that influence takes years to exert. Fact is, the economic failures you list are far more likely to be a direct result of the last years of the Clinton presidency - just as the boom years that Clinton prevailed over are the result of the prior administration's policies!

Again, that whole list is pure nonsense, designed to pander only to people who haven't got a clue and are only looking for reasons to hate.

Regards,
Gordon

who said were hating? we dont like bush and thats all, stop crying and making your useless comments, almost every person that is not in america would agree that bush is a dumbass

Originally posted by revhappy
That was on an earlier bush thread in the lounge. Mental got it from there. Congrats, Mental, we now agree on something!

i actually didnt get it from there, i never even knew it was posted, i didnt even look at that thread cause i didnt wanna hear garbage coming out of GoldenHue and Gord, i got it from one of the forums i go to daily to get my facts (non arab offcourse)

Originally posted by mental pimp
i actually didnt get it from there, i never even knew it was posted, i didnt even look at that thread cause i didnt wanna hear garbage coming out of GoldenHue and Gord, i got it from one of the forums i go to daily to get my facts (non arab offcourse)

Wutang Clan forums? Hahaha

yeah its true down here in new york guys are settling for jobs that pay 25k when they used to make 50k. i've seen companies offering to pay people $5 bucks for a desk job. And as for bush well i think were marked for more bombings his actions is hurting us now and will later on.

Metal Pimp, I saw the same list between 8 months and a year ago. It was sent to me via email. All the information I already knew - through various books and democrat website links to sources such as Nation Magazine, NY Times, and many foreign sources from Australia, U.K., and even India. A collection of articles also exists on www.truthout.com.

Funny - when I read the title of the posting, I was reluctant to open it because it makes my blood boil. I was thinking, I should copy and paste that list after I read the post. Then, wow! You had the very list I thought of. Though, I remember the title as something like "The Bush Resume".

we gotta let the word out, great site, i just wish they had info on the palestine-israel problem

That is quit a list. But then again it could be worse. We could have Al Gore for president. That scares me even more

Originally posted by mental pimp
who said were hating? we dont like bush and thats all, stop crying and making your useless comments, almost every person that is not in america would agree that bush is a dumbass

FWIW, I'm not in America, I'm in Canada, and I don't particularly like Bush (I didn't like Clinton either).

I'm not saying anything about Bush, whether I think he's a dumbass or not has nothing to do with the point I made - I'm saying that the list you printed is useless, obviously biased and trying to present Bush in the worst possible light, presenting incredibly misleading and false statements.

Talk about useless comments - if you wish to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of President Bush's achievements or notorious accomplishments, that list is useless. It's a joke. The only purpose that list has it to attempt to discredit Bush, it is by no means even close to a serious, credible attempt to present a proper account of his administration. Therefore, it's only purpose is for Bush haters to rally around and pat themselves on the back.

Perhaps, mental pimp, you should ignore the fact that you dislike me because I don't usually agree with you, and actually READ what I wrote, instead of automatically assuming that because it came from me it's useless. I gave your list the same benefit of the doubt - unfortunately, I wasted my time. ;)

Whether some idiotic list supports your opinion or not, you need to evaluate it with a critical eye first to see if it has any credibility. That list does not.

Regards,
Gordon

Give 'em hell, Gordy!!! I wish some U.S. residents were as enlightened as our bretheren to the North.

If you guys haven't noticed...it really doesn't matter if you vote for Bush or not. Or are we all forgetting about the last election where Bush won...despite all of the little counts issues...

It's not up to us, the simple minded slaves. It's up to the Electoral College.

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
If you guys haven't noticed...it really doesn't matter if you vote for Bush or not. Or are we all forgetting about the last election where Bush won...despite all of the little counts issues...

It's not up to us, the simple minded slaves. It's up to the Electoral College.

BS. The rules never changed - your system for elections has been in place for decades. If you assumed that it was a majority of votes that won, then YOU were wrong. If you don't like the system, then work to change it. Bush did nothing wrong, neither did Gore - but to pretend that Gore should have won is completely wrong. Under the US Election rules (note, which Bush had nothing to do with, before someone tries to blame him), Bush won the election fare and square. It is completely irrelevent whether Gore won more votes than Bush - that isn't now, and never was, how your electoral system works. Canada routinely elects parties and leaders that score less than 50% of the popular vote in our 3 or 4 party system. That's how our system works.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
BS. The rules never changed - your system for elections has been in place for decades. If you assumed that it was a majority of votes that won, then YOU were wrong. If you don't like the system, then work to change it. Bush did nothing wrong, neither did Gore - but to pretend that Gore should have won is completely wrong. Under the US Election rules (note, which Bush had nothing to do with, before someone tries to blame him), Bush won the election fare and square. It is completely irrelevent whether Gore won more votes than Bush - that isn't now, and never was, how your electoral system works. Canada routinely elects parties and leaders that score less than 50% of the popular vote in our 3 or 4 party system. That's how our system works.

Regards,
Gordon

The issue was that the Supreme Court would not allow a recount, and particlularly an analysis of "hanging chads" ballots and the like. A 5-4 decision is damn close on this issue so the electoral college victory was questionable itself. IMHO, the difference was so far within the system's margin of error that they should have done a reVOTE in Florida.

I agree with you in that the system is flawed. Lower populated states (which incidentally recieve more money in taxes than they receive with the reverse occuring in most populous states) have more prortional power in the legislative branch (Senate - 2 from each state), executive branch (electoral votes based on congressman AND senators) and judicial branch (appointed by the executive branch, subject to approval of the legislative branch) of goverment. For example, California has 69 times more people than Wyoming, yet they both have the same voting power in the Senate.

Originally posted by revhappy


I agree with you in that the system is flawed. Lower populated states (which incidentally recieve more money in taxes than they receive with the reverse occuring in most populous states) have more prortional power in the legislative branch (Senate - 2 from each state), executive branch (electoral votes based on congressman AND senators) and judicial branch (appointed by the executive branch, subject to approval of the legislative branch) of goverment. For example, California has 69 times more people than Wyoming, yet they both have the same voting power in the Senate.


umm thats why there is something called the House of Representatives! The seats of the house move with population.

Besides, the dang election was 3 years ago! Get over with it and voice an opinion that can actually have an impact. Let us know why you don't support Bush. Tell us who you support whether it be Dean, Clark, Kerry, et al. Throw in some examples with references, none of this willy nilly illegal war or Bush knew about 9/11 bullsh!t. Cold hard facts people!

Originally posted by Knerk
Dang Mental pimp - so serious at 15 years old. Should'nt you be learning how to smoke or be trying to score with the girl next door?


haha... You gotta hook up with the girl next door!! Unless she is fugly.. then score with her friends..

Pimp follow his advice!!!

Originally posted by Kaliken
umm thats why there is something called the House of Representatives! The seats of the house move with population.


Well, there are two parts of the legislative branch of goverment - with the Senate being a bit more powerful with fillibustering. Again, the fact remains that people in California, New York and Florida have less of a voice in goverment than people in Wyoming, idaho and Alaska. Incidentally, most of the tax dollars go into these states and go out of the others.

Originally posted by Kaliken
Besides, the dang election was 3 years ago! Get over with it and voice an opinion that can actually have an impact. Let us know why you don't support Bush. Tell us who you support whether it be Dean, Clark, Kerry, et al. Throw in some examples with references, none of this willy nilly illegal war or Bush knew about 9/11 bullsh!t. Cold hard facts people!

I was merely posing the other positon to Gord's argument. I agree the election is over and Gore did lose. In our other Bush post in the lounge, I posted my thoughts on the election and why I support Clark.

Originally posted by Kaliken
haha... You gotta hook up with the girl next door!! Unless she is fugly.. then score with her friends..

Pimp follow his advice!!!

The girls in my neighborhood are pretty fugly, except for one, anyways i gotta stay loyal to my god and chill for a couple of years, also, i wanna know wats going on in the world, im not those type of people who go by wat their president says

Wow!
Mental pimp you finally got something.
I agree w/u all the way.
I doubt bush will lose though for 2004 look at all the candidates... none of them look like they can contend w/bush. Its not hard for him to win now with him capturing sadam. He can put us all in bankruptcy and he still would win the presidency because he was the guy that caught sadam. *sigh*

http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/palmbeachvoter.jpg

Really funny, inaccurate and typical. Let's see, the strongest stock market performance, every economic indicator is strong, we are bringing democracy to the world and saving Muslim's from murder, rape and mutiliation, no attack on US soil since 2001, why would anyone support that???

Originally posted by LesPaul
Really funny, inaccurate and typical. Let's see, the strongest stock market performance, every economic indicator is strong, we are bringing democracy to the world and saving Muslim's from murder, rape and mutiliation, no attack on US soil since 2001, why would anyone support that???

Don't you think that other nations on earth could argue that the US could "mind their own business" once in a while . I am NOT talking here about defending yourself against terrorism, i am thinking more like "live and let live" kinda philosophy. The "american way" is not the only way nor is the best way for many many nations and there is nothing wrong with that. Going against the UN is not a good thing for MOST of "the rest of the world".

About your "no attack on US soil since 2001", the last attack before that was by an American , nothing any govmt can do about wackos !

So when the US doesn't intervene in international affairs and everything goes to hell in a handbasket....it'll still be the US's fault for not doing something......

Most people seem to think the UN is like our representative form of government. It is not. It's a club of dictators that do not represent their citizens. Why on earth would we care what these selfish, tyrants think?

I also find it interesting that college kids, the least likely to know what is going on (lack of information and experience) or young pimps with computers think they know all the answers. For those of you agreeing with Mental Pimp, I urge caution. He also thinks it is heroic for cowards to bomb children and innocents in shopping centers.

Originally posted by LesPaul
Most people seem to think the UN is like our representative form of government. It is not. It's a club of dictators that do not represent their citizens. Why on earth would we care what these selfish, tyrants think?

I also find it interesting that college kids, the least likely to know what is going on (lack of information and experience) or young pimps with computers think they know all the answers. For those of you agreeing with Mental Pimp, I urge caution. He also thinks it is heroic for cowards to bomb children and innocents in shopping centers.

So, if pimp likes chocalate ice cream and you do, you condone suicide bombings. Most of us blasted him in the other threads on that issue, but to deliberately take opposite positions on whatever issue he chooses is silly.

I don't agree with mental at all but at the same time i don't have to agree with you. You seem to think you know it all about the UN so no need to try to debate with you. A whole lot of countries are wrong and of course the USA are the only one with the knowledge... typical.

Originally posted by oosik
So when the US doesn't intervene in international affairs and everything goes to hell in a handbasket....it'll still be the US's fault for not doing something......

I think most other nations like it when the US are non-interventionnist . Those who want them are those who lost control , but why get involved?

capitalism is a great thing...no one president affects the stock market...if anything what one president institutes during their term doesn't take effect until two or three terms down the road, if not longer,

there is alot i don't agree with on Bush, i mean come on i think he has handled internal (US) issues pretty poorly. Made us look like idiots internationally and now we have a lot of work to come out looking like an international player instead of dictator...but look at the choices we had?!! would you have wanted AL GORE to make decisions after 9/11? this guy DODGED THE DRAFT...I put some damn fine time in to the service, blowing shit up...heheh, and have absolutely no respect for people that rather take advantage of the opportunities provided by the US and when called upon to protect those rights they choose to find a means to get out of it.....pathetic...oh right...he invented the Internet...we wouldn't even be here in this forum if he wasn't around...sorry i forgot...

anyway enough with the Bush bashing...he is the elected Pres..like him or not it's our duty to stand behind him even though we disagree with his decision...

Originally posted by LesPaul
He also thinks it is heroic for cowards to bomb children and innocents in shopping centers.

Yea, try opening your eyes once in a while, go back to my previous threads and see if i supported the suicide bombing

Originally posted by XeRo
capitalism is a great thing...no one president affects the stock market...if anything what one president institutes during their term doesn't take effect until two or three terms down the road, if not longer,

there is alot i don't agree with on Bush, i mean come on i think he has handled internal (US) issues pretty poorly. Made us look like idiots internationally and now we have a lot of work to come out looking like an international player instead of dictator...but look at the choices we had?!! would you have wanted AL GORE to make decisions after 9/11? this guy DODGED THE DRAFT...I put some damn fine time in to the service, blowing shit up...heheh, and have absolutely no respect for people that rather take advantage of the opportunities provided by the US and when called upon to protect those rights they choose to find a means to get out of it.....pathetic...oh right...he invented the Internet...we wouldn't even be here in this forum if he wasn't around...sorry i forgot...

anyway enough with the Bush bashing...he is the elected Pres..like him or not it's our duty to stand behind him even though we disagree with his decision...

Well, to be fair Gore did go to Vietnam as a military reporter. Its not exactly being a war hero, but its not really dodging either. Bush went to the Texas Air National Guard during Vietnam - not exactly a couragous move unless the mexian air force was going to invade! :p

Gore went way too left during his campaign (and now too). Its a shame the democrats are moving away from the center where Clinton took them and are moving left. I think Clinton should endorse someone like Clark, Kerry or Lieberman and bring the party back to moderation.

i guess politically speaking, i'm neither a left or right...i couild give a $hit about democrat or republican or whatever else is out there..although the green party does have it's pluses...ahem...

i would just like (highly unlikely) a truthful president that is going to take the US to the next level and do EXACTLY as he promises..and is the best for both sides and the world for that matter...Kerry does seem to have a good head on him..but i don't think this is supposed to be a political forum...sorry...i'm done...i think..

Look.. someone in the world has to take the lead. I'm rather glad that the U.S. is it. I don't really give a rats ass what Canada, Germany, France have to say publically because behind the scenes they are really glad that they have someone like the U.S. to safeguard their way of life... Reminds me of a Jack Nicolson movie, except he had Tom Cruise to get in the way... Anyway.. it works like this. The U.S. is here to police the world 'cause no one else can. We ain't perfect but we damn sure have twice the balls of second place.

Originally posted by XeRo
capitalism is a great thing...no one president affects the stock market...if anything what one president institutes during their term doesn't take effect until two or three terms down the road, if not longer,

there is alot i don't agree with on Bush, i mean come on i think he has handled internal (US) issues pretty poorly. Made us look like idiots internationally and now we have a lot of work to come out looking like an international player instead of dictator...but look at the choices we had?!! would you have wanted AL GORE to make decisions after 9/11? this guy DODGED THE DRAFT...I put some damn fine time in to the service, blowing shit up...heheh, and have absolutely no respect for people that rather take advantage of the opportunities provided by the US and when called upon to protect those rights they choose to find a means to get out of it.....pathetic...oh right...he invented the Internet...we wouldn't even be here in this forum if he wasn't around...sorry i forgot...

anyway enough with the Bush bashing...he is the elected Pres..like him or not it's our duty to stand behind him even though we disagree with his decision...

huh? LOL ur funny.
Anywayz just because he dodge the draft doesn't mean he can't be a good president. I would have thought he would do a good job as a president. He has more experience in politics than bush. No I don't agree w/most of his decision and just bcz his president I shouldn't stand behind him, he might fart.

I saw a bumper sticker today

"Lick Bush in 2004"

Originally posted by Habeeb
Look.. someone in the world has to take the lead. I'm rather glad that the U.S. is it. I don't really give a rats ass what Canada, Germany, France have to say publically because behind the scenes they are really glad that they have someone like the U.S. to safeguard their way of life... Reminds me of a Jack Nicolson movie, except he had Tom Cruise to get in the way... Anyway.. it works like this. The U.S. is here to police the world 'cause no one else can. We ain't perfect but we damn sure have twice the balls of second place.

That's good, keep patting yourself on the back and feel like you are on top of the world, again, so typical of the way many (not most) US citizen think. The world IS NOT your playground.

Even if I was Republican I couldn't go on lying to myself. Bush is the worst president ever. He can't speak, he can't think... illl stop there, I love my RX-8, just don't attack Japan!!

OH COME ON!!!!!Stop being such a sucker for propanda! Stop reading those left wing web pages that are out to just spead dis information. Use the brain you have, and deal with the facts.

Originally posted by mental pimp
HERE IS WHY TO VOTE FOR MR. PRESIDENT, GEORGE W. BUSH:

Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

His presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

His biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months has no leads and zero suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Thank you.

What is it with you and Politics? All you try to do is create controversy. This IS the Lounge, but this IS also an RX-8 Forum. Personally, I'm getting tired of this flame bait. I'll keep it open as long as debate remains civil (but it probably won't).

First of all, I admit that I skipped the middle n posts, and read the first 10 and last 10. Second, here's what I came up with off the top of my head:
HERE IS WHY TO VOTE FOR MR. PRESIDENT, GEORGE W. BUSH:

Attacked and took over two countries.
-- And he's in process of giving them back to the people... who really didn't "control" them in the first place, as both were ruled by oppressive governments.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
-- It's true, he does seem incapable of vetoing spending bills... spending bills that you'd label him "heartless" for vetoing if he did. Oh, wait, you do that anyway.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
-- Budget deficits should be measured in terms of the percentage of the GDP. a $5,000 shortfall is a lot if you earn 20k a year. It's a lot less if you earn 100k a year.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
-- Yep, the president is totally responsible for people declaring bankruptcy.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
-- Again, percentage. I'm betting that the % drop was a LOT less than a few other times in history.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
-- Wait, this is supposed to be a negative?

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
-- You're right, former "criminals" shouldn't be allowed to hold jobs, especially not important ones.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
-- And your point is...? He's on salary, not hourly. Besides, I'm betting he does more work when he's at Camp David or the ranch than most people do when they're at the office.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
-- And oh, the temptation for me to blame Clinton grows ever stronger... but that's not fair either. Terrorists, like Hackers, can eventually do just about anything if they really work at it, and have the resources.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.
-- Yeah, I don't much care for it either.

In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
-- Seen the statistics on how many of those 2 million Americans found new jobs? Because they're fairly good, and getting better all the time.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
-- And it's about damn time.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
-- Yep, he's sending in the Marines to forclose on people's homes.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
-- Criminals shouldn't be allowed to work. We should deport them all to Australia.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
-- Wait, wait, he's not a good public speaker, and he focuses on his job more than he does on looking good?! OMFG!

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.
-- "circumventing the Constitution" is a pretty big door to walk through, boyo. I don't even feel the need for a retort.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
-- Wait, wait, you mean he's letting the market, existing laws, and officials already in place take care of it?! OMFG!

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
-- Adjusted for inflation, Gas prices aren't so bad... but then, this is an RX-8 forum. You liberals need to make up your minds - is it good to burn gas or not?

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
-- Yeah, I haven't done the research, but I probably agree with you.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
-- It's a good thing we have rule of law instead of mob rule in this country.

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
-- Archaic and anti-american treaties that threaten our sovereignty are being dissolved? OMFG!

His presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
-- Mmm, making quantitative statements about things you can't measure.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
-- So they're successful businessmen and women who know what it takes to succeed, and who are much less corruptable?

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.
-- Yep, the president makes each individual state budget.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
-- Yep, the president sure did request that all those companies defraud their investors.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
-- You got this one right.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
-- And he needs to be stopped.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
-- A commision chaired by whom? Including whom? SYRIA?! Let's not forget that the UN Declaration of Human Rights declares that your rights end where the UN says they do.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
-- The UN is such a wonderful organization, we should definately sign over our sovereignty to them.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
-- You want more congressional oversight, but you blame him for the budget? For shame.

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
-- Oh, wouldn't THAT be some kind of fantasy world.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
-- It's about time.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
-- I'd be angrier if they included more US Citizens. I'd be a LOT angrier if there were a few less dead Americans in a pile of rubble in New York.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
-- Frankly, anything that we can do to tell the UN to cram it, is probably good.

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
-- What does he win? A cookie?

His biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
-- Wait, wait, business leaders like republicans more than democrats, and contribute large sums to push the GOP during tight elections? STOP THE PRESSES!

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
-- So do you want him to know what the "American People" are thinking, or not? Make up your mind.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
-- u·ni·lat·er·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (yn-ltr-l)
adj.
Of, on, relating to, involving, or affecting only one side: “a unilateral advantage in defense” (New Republic).
Performed or undertaken by only one side: unilateral disarmament.
Obligating only one of two or more parties, nations, or persons, as a contract or an agreement.

-- So... aside from using words that you don't know, what are you saying? Are you illiterate, or just really, REALLY bad at counting?

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
-- He's not the first president to "run and hide". And the decision was probably all but forced on him by the secret service. On the lying thing... you blow a lot of smoke about "Bush Lying" on various topics, bring me proof.

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
-- If it's so secret, how did you find out about it?

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
-- So the better solution would have been to pander to some countries that didn't really care for us anyway, to turn short term sympathy into long term sycophantism?

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
-- Possible response 1: Yep, Bush definately controls both the Irsraeli and the Palestinian governments
-- Approved Response: Wait, we're not going to treat a long time friend of ours the same way we treat a known terrorist and political thug?! OMFG!

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
-- It's a good thing we have rule of law and not mob rule... by a mob in Europe.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
-- First of all, I think you needed to throw a word "feel" in there, because we haven't threatened South Korea.
-- Second of all, you're right, we should definately never, ever do anything that demonstrates a willingness to use what power we have to defend our interests.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
-- Once again, criminals should never be allowed to have jobs, no matter the circumstance.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
-- Hell, I bet if they sold all their stock, and then the corporation did NOT get the contract, and went under, you'd accuse them of insider trading. Let's not forget that they don't even need stock for you to tie them together - look at Enron.

Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
-- How long was the statue of limitations?

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months has no leads and zero suspects.
-- Yep, good thing the President is personally running the crime lab and on-the-ground investigation teams on that one. Every criminal gets caught except the ones he personally goes after.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
-- Is that a lie, or an ommission?

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
-- Hi, I'm John Adams[0]. Hi John Adams, I'm Abe Lincoln[1]. Hi Abe, let's listen to this fool make grandiose statements he can't back up!
[0] http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/laws/alien_sedition.html
[1] http://www.lneilsmith.com/abelenin.html (Of course, I take issue with some of the things this guy says too... but since your post is 95% opinion anyway, here it is)

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
-- For as fond as you people are of comparing Iraq to Vietnam, your memory seems pretty selective. Ok, you want to argue that we're "more divided" than we were then. Or than we were re: entering WWII before pearl harbor. or WWI. or over Prohibition. Or over... look, until you pull out a "divideometer" and a time machine, you can't argue this one.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
-- Read the news lately? Turns out that his tax policy is actually working, to dig us out of the tech-bubble crater.

Thank you.
-- You are most certainly welcome.

Conclusion: I suppose I disagree with 1 or 2 policies, mostly domestic matters relating to budget, in what has been otherwise a pretty good presidency.

**** Before I start: I hate Bush. I did not vote for him and I will not vote for him in 2004... but this list is garbage.

HERE IS WHY TO VOTE FOR MR. PRESIDENT, GEORGE W. BUSH:

Attacked and took over two countries.
*** So you think we should have let Al-Quida and the Taliban go??? He was absolutely right to go after Afghanistan. (I agree that he was wrong to attack Iraq.)

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
*** Did the treasury file for bankruptcy? I must have missed it. When? Also, at least some of that money went towards aid after September 11th, tax cuts to stimulate the economy, and the war on Afghanistan.


Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.
*** Bush took their money? It's his fault?

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
*** How did Bush do that? It's his responsibility?


First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
*** Who was that? You mean the Oklahoma city bomber? Do you honestly think it was wrong to execute him?

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.
*** A criminal record is not an obstacle to entering the presidency.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.
*** You may not like it, but some people prefer to delegate
responsibility instead of supervising everyone themself.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.
*** Nothing the terrorists did in on 9-11-01 was beyond their capabilities in the previous decade. This could just have easily happened under Bush senior or Clinton (who as you may recall was in office and failed to prevent the first terrorist attack against the two towers).

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In his first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
*** In a recession caused by the dot bust and terrorist attacks. Not his fault.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
*** Link please? I haven't heard this before.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.
*** Bush did this? He must have robbed all of those people so they couldn't make their mortgage payments. The fiend.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.
*** Link please?

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
*** That's right, because five minute speeches from Bush Sr., Reagan, Clinton, Carter, etc... that promised the world and meant nothing are an important part of the presidency. Give me a break, this is irrelevant.

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.
*** More information, please...

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
*** It isn't the president's responsibility.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
*** Granted... he has ties to oil, and I think he's a dick.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
*** The cost of health care is skyrocketing. I don't agree with this decision, but I see why it was done.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/marches/)
*** A link! Praise God!

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.
*** Link, please? Also, note that Kyoto, for instance, was refused by many other countries and some of the nations that did sign it are having trouble meeting the targets. http://www.edie.net/gf.cfm?L=left_frame.html&R=http://www.edie.net/news/Archive/6379.cfm

His presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.
*** Link? This is difficult to prove or disprove and mostly an empty statement.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).
*** That is irrelevant to his ability to govern.

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.
*** The Federal government does not have responsibility for the states. This is not his problem. He might have been able to help by spending more money, but people (like whoever compiled this list) don't like it when he spends money.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
*** All of the frauds discovered were taking place during the Clinton administration. This is no more Bush's fault than Clinton's.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
*** Largest? Link please?

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.
*** First, there was the recession, the tax reductions, and
the war on Afghanistan and Iraq. Second, this explains why government spending and a deficit are actually good ideas now: (This is a quote of a New York times article)

***********************************************
The crucial point, of course, is that in the short term at least, fiscal policy is not a zero-sum game: a government can easily increase military spending without reducing consumer demand if it finances the higher spending by borrowing rather than taxation (and provided taxpayers do not view borrowing as future taxation and reduce consumption in anticipation).

The downside is that such debt-financed fiscal policies led to inflation in the past . In the late 1960's and in the late 1980's, deficits were partly financed by printing dollars, which ultimately led to higher prices.

The good news for Mr. Bush is that this is unlikely to happen now. After all, he inherited an economy on the brink of a deflationary crisis. The bursting of the market bubble of the late 1990's posed a threat to the American economy comparable to the crash of 1929 and — with the wrong policies — the bust might have been as big.

Unlike Herbert Hoover, however, Mr. Bush did not respond to the crisis with spending cuts and tax increases — quite the reverse. The tax cuts of his presidency may not have been especially well aimed to lift consumption, but they have had at least some countercyclical impact. Plainly, the lessons of the Great Depression have been learned not just in the Federal Reserve (which responded with swift cuts in interest rates). They were also learned in the Oval Office. That's why the downturn of 2001 was so shallow and short.

It is true, as former Treasury Secretary Robert E. Rubin and others like to point out, that President Bush has been greatly helped by the surpluses he inherited from the Clinton administration. From 1995 to 2000 the gross federal debt declined as proportion of gross domestic product, from 66 percent to 57 percent — a manageable burden compared with those of countries like Italy, Belgium or Japan, all of which have total national debts in excess of 100 percent of G.D.P. Those who panicked about the debt under President Reagan failed to see how manageable it was. It's even more manageable today.

Even more important, falling interest rates have drastically lowered the cost of servicing the federal debt. Back in 1995, interest accounted for $232 billion a year — more than 3 percent of G.D.P. Last year the figure was down to $178 billion, just 1.7 percent of G.D.P.

All this means that the Bush administration has considerable fiscal room for maneuver. The deficit (the excess of this year's spending over taxation) may have gone up. But the Congressional Budget Office forecasts that the federal debt (all the government's accumulated borrowings) will actually decline relative to G.D.P. in the years 2005 to 2013.

An interesting question is why this fiscal black hole is not causing more alarm for financial markets, because history suggests that a government with debts on this scale sooner or later either defaults or resorts to printing money, thus re-igniting inflation. Long-term interest rates have indeed ticked up slightly since their nadir last spring, in anticipation of higher inflation. But this will not be the kind of inflation experienced in the 1970's and 1980's. So powerful are the deflationary forces today (notably in the second and third biggest economies, Japan and Germany) that Washington can splurge on its military and social services with only a modest impact on expectations of inflation.

It helps that the United States has a unique advantage over all other sovereign borrowers: central banks and other institutions around the world need to hold dollars as the currency most frequently used in international transactions. While this is true, America can count on selling large amounts of dollar assets, like 10-year Treasury bonds, to foreigners — very large amounts. In the last three years, the share of federal debt in foreign hands has risen from just over a third to almost a half. In particular, China has invested heavily in the dollar. Since 2001 Chinese international reserves have roughly doubled, from $200 billion to $400 billion.

The only imminent danger is that the dollar could slide sharply against Asian currencies, as it has against the euro. But the chief losers then would be the Asians."
**************************************************

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.
*** Link?

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.
*** Link?

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.
*** Link?

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
*** Not at all. He tried to play by their rules and then ignored them (wrongly, I believe, but that's irrelevant to the discussion). They still exist and their power hasn't changed.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
*** Link?

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
*** By default? We don't know so we assume the worst? Come on, there are a million valid criticisms of Bush and now we just assume the prisoners are being tortured?

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).
*** Link?

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
*** Granted.

His biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
*** If my friend gives me $5,000 and then shoots his wife, is it my fault?

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.
*** So he wants to win the elections. Is that illegal?

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
*** Granted.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
*** The Secret Service would never let the president put himself in danger, no matter what he wants. It's their job. Bush wouldn't have done anyone any good if he had gotten himself killed in the middle of a massive terrorist strike. No other president in recent memory has been in that position, so cut him some slack.

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.
*** Proof? Link?

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).
*** The most resented country? Proof? Link?

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
*** He didn't create it. It was already there. Engagement in Israel was part of the reason many Arabs hate the US in the first place.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view his presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
*** Given.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
*** What are you talking about? Link?

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
*** Link?

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
*** Link?

Failed to fulfill pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.
*** You just took him to task for invading Afghanistan, and now you're upset that he didn't capture bin Laden? Pick one - either you wanted the invasion or you didn't. Not both.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months has no leads and zero suspects.
*** Link? I thought they found the Anthrax lab.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
*** The failure wasn't his fault. He didn't change the police, FBI, or CIA procedures in his first 9 months in office.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.
*** This is difficult to judge. Got a link? Which freedoms, in particular, were removed?

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.
*** Proof? Link? Divided over what?

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.
*** The dot bust wasn't his responsibility, and neither was the terrorist attack.

Thank you.
**** Thank you for listening to a pile of useless propoganda?
There are dozens of reasons not to re-elect that peckerwood, and very few of them were in that post. Try again.

Im only going to say one thing.Imagine a liberal in office after sept 11.LOLOLOLOLOL Hell we would probly have 4 or 5 more buidlings to clean up.Ok 2 things any canadian on here that bashes Bush needs to rethink bashing any American president cause whos going to defend you when Korea or China come knocking for oil one day??Your 3 choppers and pt boat aint going to do it.

Talk to you in JANUARY 2009 when Mr. Bush leaves office. :) By that time the Dems will be SO FAR Left (including the idiots on this forum) that the Republicans will have 65 seats in the Senate and 300 seats in the House. Keep on under-estimating Mr. Bush. The joke is on you.

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
Im only going to say one thing.Imagine a liberal in office after sept 11.LOLOLOLOLOL Hell we would probly have 4 or 5 more buidlings to clean up.Ok 2 things any canadian on here that bashes Bush needs to rethink bashing any American president cause whos going to defend you when Korea or China come knocking for oil one day??Your 3 choppers and pt boat aint going to do it.

I think FDR and Truman were pretty good on defense and they were as "Liberal" as you get.

Originally posted by CaptainAndy
Talk to you in JANUARY 2009 when Mr. Bush leaves office. :) By that time the Dems will be SO FAR Left (including the idiots on this forum) that the Republicans will have 65 seats in the Senate and 300 seats in the House. Keep on under-estimating Mr. Bush. The joke is on you.

Could we fastforward to that? I'd like to get it over with! :p Seriously, the democratic party is going way too left with Gore's push for Dean (who suddenly now became a left winger).

Originally posted by WTF no turbo
any canadian on here that bashes Bush needs to rethink bashing any American president cause whos going to defend you when Korea or China come knocking for oil one day??Your 3 choppers and pt boat aint going to do it.

Korea or China? Naaah, it'll never happen. What we're far more concerned about is when the US decides they want our potable water - even though we have the second largest reserves of crude in the world (We're #2 behind Saudi Arabia, NOTIraq!), it's our drinking water reserves that are going to be of far more importance when the US starts to run out. :D

Regards,
Gordon

I,ll drink (water ) to that Gordon. Our water and oil are something our neighbor will wanna get in the futur... our women aren't half bad either :-)

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Korea or China? Naaah, it'll never happen. What we're far more concerned about is when the US decides they want our potable water - even though we have the second largest reserves of crude in the world (We're #2 behind Saudi Arabia, NOTIraq!), it's our drinking water reserves that are going to be of far more importance when the US starts to run out. :D

Regards,
Gordon

wow, i had no idea

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntn20664.htm





Originally posted by f1michel
our women aren't half bad either :-)

y'know, that never ceases to amaze me...why DOES Toronto have such beautiful women? you'd think it'd be just like the midwest in which women tend to gain a lot of weight and pale up during the wintertime, and then try to lose it in the fall so they can fit into their skimpier wear for the summer...i can understand that California has great weather all year round so there are no excuses not to look good all year round...must be all the Chinese immigrants, eh?

Originally posted by BRx8
wow, i had no idea

http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/news/ntn20664.htm

Unfortunately, its not economically recoverable. Its probobly more economical to utilize alternative fuels with those extraction costs barring any technoloical innovation that lowers them.

Originally posted by BRx8
y'know, that never ceases to amaze me...why DOES Toronto have such beautiful women? you'd think it'd be just like the midwest in which women tend to gain a lot of weight and pale up during the wintertime, and then try to lose it in the fall so they can fit into their skimpier wear for the summer...i can understand that California has great weather all year round so there are no excuses not to look good all year round...must be all the Chinese immigrants, eh?


I totally agree! Its one of my favorite cities!

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Korea or China? Naaah, it'll never happen. What we're far more concerned about is when the US decides they want our potable water - even though we have the second largest reserves of crude in the world (We're #2 behind Saudi Arabia, NOTIraq!), it's our drinking water reserves that are going to be of far more importance when the US starts to run out. :D

Regards,
Gordon

Gord, the average American really admires the Canadian people. I personally think that western Canadians are some of the friendliest people I have ever met. But buddy take a good look around what do you see? If you look north you see USA if you look south you see USA. If Canada has it so does the USA and a bunch more of it. If we don't have it we can buy or barter it.


And don't forget we (USA) have some pretty spectacular reserves in Alaska. Who really knows just how big the reserves really are. :)

Originally posted by revhappy
Unfortunately, its not economically recoverable. Its probobly more economical to utilize alternative fuels with those extraction costs barring any technoloical innovation that lowers them.

That article is 2 years old. The technological innovations to lower the recovery costs have happened, recovery costs now are less than half what that article mentions.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
That article is 2 years old. The technological innovations to lower the recovery costs have happened, recovery costs now are less than half what that article mentions.

Regards,
Gordon

Do you have a link to show us what the new cost per barrel is? If your estimates are correct, they are still ~ 3-5 times more expensive than middle eastern sources. Extrapolating that to current gas prices that would be about $4.80 - $8.00 a gallon. This could come down if there are technological innovations, but to me it seems that's going to be a stretch.

Originally posted by revhappy
Do you have a link to show us what the new cost per barrel is? If your estimates are correct, they are still ~ 3-5 times more expensive than middle eastern sources. Extrapolating that to current gas prices that would be about $4.80 - $8.00 a gallon. This could come down if there are technological innovations, but to me it seems that's going to be a stretch.

New estimates are for recovery costs to be under $10 per barrel (~44 gallons, IIRC). Here's a link to one company's site - http://www.opticanada.com/ - they have a new refining process which produces synthetic crude. Costs aren't posted there that I could find, but the under $10 per barrel is correct. I can't post internal confidential documents to prove that, of course! Yes, the costs are much higher than the Middle East, but less than double the cost of conventional production in North America now.

Oh yeah, you're right - most estimates now show that Alberta has more recoverable crude oil than Saudi Arabia - I think the 2nd place number was relative to the reserves of the entire middle east combined!:eek:

Regards,
Gordon

You know whats ironic how much is gas up there?Heh think about that as the Bush bashers come out in full force.Yes gas prices spiked a bit for a couple months,but i payed 1.39 for premium today.Can we invade a couple more 3rd worlds and get it down to a buck again?

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
New estimates are for recovery costs to be under $10 per barrel (~44 gallons, IIRC). Here's a link to one company's site - http://www.opticanada.com/ - they have a new refining process which produces synthetic crude. Costs aren't posted there that I could find, but the under $10 per barrel is correct. I can't post internal confidential documents to prove that, of course! Yes, the costs are much higher than the Middle East, but less than double the cost of conventional production in North America now.

Oh yeah, you're right - most estimates now show that Alberta has more recoverable crude oil than Saudi Arabia - I think the 2nd place number was relative to the reserves of the entire middle east combined!:eek:

Regards,
Gordon

Well, often times a company cost projections don't line up with actual results. Anyone who has ever done a budget to actual analysis (especially when new facilities and processes are completed off of recent R&D activities) can attest to that! Cost- based analysis based on a large sample of experience is more reliable.
I'm still not sure the physically recoverable oil there is economically recoverable just yet. I guess time will tell. However, I'm not sure if you are saying those are historical or projected costs, so please ignore my comments here if they based on past activity! :o

What about Russia, there are constantly reports of how large there potential oil reserves are?

LOL

type in "miserable failure" in Google and check first page returned.

RotaryStalker

Dubya developed politically in Texas, the National Laboratory for Bad Government. What can we expect?

Hmm.... I'm trying to make sense of zoomalot's post...

Near as I can figure, you misspelled "california". And it is my solemn duty to inform you that Bush is from Texas, not California.

(don't take it personally!)