If anyone cares, you can read it here! (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?threadid=47499&perpage=15&highlight=Top%20gear&pagenumber=1)

By the way in top gear, the Evo FQ300 which drove by stig, did a 1.28.9 (which was faster then the Murcielago), and as compared with the RX-8 which did 1.31.8.
I know it's not the best guage interms of timing for these cars, but I'm just using them as an example, so, for those who thinks the stock RX can or did catch up with the Evos, they are probably just cruising.

lol, some of these guys.......let me get my hands on them.....no wait let me get my baseball bat on them........and well see if they like the rx8 now j/k, some of these guys dont even know wat they are talking about, their probalby thinking of the 350z or something,

Hot, but I don't like the lines. Reminds me of the Evo VII to VIII transformation
not to mention they lied on the output of the engine...
(wtf???) these kids are crazy^

Originally posted by M-ster
If anyone cares, you can read it here! (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?threadid=47499&perpage=15&highlight=Top%20gear&pagenumber=1)

By the way in top gear, the Evo FQ300 which drove by stig, did a 1.28.9 (which was faster then the Murcielago), and as compared with the RX-8 which did 1.31.8.
I know it's not the best guage interms of timing for these cars, but I'm just using them as an example, so, for those who thinks the stock RX can or did catch up with the Evos, they are probably just cruising.

I do not think anyone really thinks the 8 will take an evo in a straight line..

Mental: The comments you pasted ar perfectly valid. Remember even on this 8 forum a lot of people still think of the 8 as a succesor to the 7, even if it's not exactly that. So the lines are a pretty dramatic change in that regard. Also, Mazda DID lie about the power output at first. They can say mis-quote all they like, but the simple fact is they lied and ended up paying for it.

And if you asked me what I thought about the lines of an EVO I would say fugly as well. We all are entitled to our opinion. It's interesting to read others about the car, but ultimatly, they dont matter.

Originally posted by Genom
Mental: Also, Mazda DID lie about the power output at first. They can say mis-quote all they like, but the simple fact is they lied and ended up paying for it.


I'm not sure if we're all being to harsh on Mazda. Did they really lied? Well the JDM's cars still producing 247bhp, as they advertised, but just before they release their export models, they realize the original specs are not meeting the emission stardard of the other markets. I don't think they have a choice but to de-tune the ecu, and by then they're probably a little too late to re-instate their position.

Or did they really tried to cover-up intentionally??

What's most impressive is a thread that actually talks about cars in a car forum and stays on point. I've never seen one of those before! ;)

In January's Automobile, they voted the EVO VIII Auto of the Year, but in the editorial, they said that the RX 8 was as close a runner up as they ever had. Apparently, the debate split the room down the middle for quite a while. The 8 is a great car, but nobody in the industry seems to be able to voice why. They can't classify it. They just like driving it.

I wish we had Japan's fuel. It would have made things so much easier bringing the car over here and we would be seeing the hp and maybe the mpg's as well. Here's to dreaming...

Originally posted by klegg
I do not think anyone really thinks the 8 will take an evo in a straight line..


You need to test drive one, it is NOT a straight line car. I have driven both and Evo corners with much greater speed and stability. RX8 is a fun car to drive however evo is just raw and fast.

Yeah, mebee the UK's FQ300 (300BHP remember) is quicker than a UK RX-8 (228bhp remember!).

But that same RX_8 matched the M3 and 350z times.

The Evo is a much harsher ride, hugely over bodykited and a lot more cash than the RX8. Personaly, if they tone down the body kit so I dont have to wear a rear facing baseball cap and look a prick driving one I would possibly consider it.

But as a daily driver that performs, I think it falls way short of the overall package the RX8 is.

The FQ300 is a great car - but I wouldnt swap my RX8 for one - 5-10% of my driving is 'fun' the rest is work runs/shopping etc.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
Yeah, mebee the UK's FQ300 (300BHP remember) is quicker than a UK RX-8 (228bhp remember!).

But that same RX_8 matched the M3 and 350z times.

The Evo is a much harsher ride, hugely over bodykited and a lot more cash than the RX8. Personaly, if they tone down the body kit so I dont have to wear a rear facing baseball cap and look a prick driving one I would possibly consider it.

But as a daily driver that performs, I think it falls way short of the overall package the RX8 is.

The FQ300 is a great car - but I wouldnt swap my RX8 for one - 5-10% of my driving is 'fun' the rest is work runs/shopping etc.

If a daily driver is what you are looking for then the RX8 is a great choice. I do have to disagree with the price. A fully loaded RX8 is around 34k and a fully loaded Evo is around 33k. I got mine for 29k.

<- is in the UK

A hi-power (231ps) no options is £22,000 (with CC, bose etc).

An EQ300 Evo 8 is £29,000. (add about £1.5-2k for FQ330)

A standard EVo (non FQ) , 280bhp car is £26,800.

As a base model the RX-8 has a better spec than any of the EVo's.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
<- is in the UK

A hi-power (231ps) no options is £22,000 (with CC, bose etc).

An EQ300 Evo 8 is £29,000. (add about £1.5-2k for FQ330)

A standard EVo (non FQ) , 280bhp car is £26,800.

As a base model the RX-8 has a better spec than any of the EVo's.

Base model yes but most of the cars on the lot has options. The only way to get a base 8 that I know of is to order one.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
As a base model the RX-8 has a better spec than any of the EVo's.

spec as in luxury accessories and not performance rite?;)

Originally posted by Hanzo
Base model yes but most of the cars on the lot has options. The only way to get a base 8 that I know of is to order one.

Your still thinking about the US cars.

UK cars come with more as standard.

The only factory fit options for the UK RX8 are :
Leather seats (inc power and heaters) £1500
Sat nav £1200
Some paint options - £300
Sunroot - I dont know the price sry.
(RX-8 comes with BOSE, climate control, HID headlights etc standard)

That bumps the RX-8's price up by £3000 to £25000 - FULLY specced.

Thats still £1,800 cheaper than the BASE Evo, and £4000 cheaper than the base FQ300.


Opps - sorry I got the OTR (on the road ) prices wrong for the evo's. These prices are from Mitsubishi's website:

FQ330 - £31,999.00
FQ300 - £28,999.00
EVO 8 - £26,999.00

All without options.

EVO's have 4,500mile serive intervals in Uk, RX8 has 12500mile serive intervals. EVO mpg is slightly worse than the RX8.

EVO charges extra for paint, HIDS, NAVI, decent stereo & leather options.


I dont kow about US, but in the UK, even the base moddel EVO costs a lot more than the top spec RX8.

Aslo the RX8 will be half the price to insure and run.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
Your still thinking about the US cars.

UK cars come with more as standard.

The only factory fit options for the UK RX8 are :
Leather seats (inc power and heaters) £1500
Sat nav £1200
Some paint options - £300
Sunroot - I dont know the price sry.
(RX-8 comes with BOSE, climate control, HID headlights etc standard)

That bumps the RX-8's price up by £3000 to £25000 - FULLY specced.

Thats still £1,800 cheaper than the BASE Evo, and £4000 cheaper than the base FQ300.


Opps - sorry I got the OTR (on the road ) prices wrong for the evo's. These prices are from Mitsubishi's website:

FQ330 - £31,999.00
FQ300 - £28,999.00
EVO 8 - £26,999.00

All without options.

EVO's have 4,500mile serive intervals in Uk, RX8 has 12500mile serive intervals. EVO mpg is slightly worse than the RX8.

EVO charges extra for paint, HIDS, NAVI, decent stereo & leather options.


I dont kow about US, but in the UK, even the base moddel EVO costs a lot more than the top spec RX8.

Aslo the RX8 will be half the price to insure and run.


I guess I think US because I live in US. I don't live in UK.

Originally posted by Hanzo
I guess I think US because I live in US. I don't live in UK.

Sorry, the threads premis was that a stock UK RX-8 was slower round a UK test track against a UK FQ300 - and that means no RX-8 can catch an EVO.

I'm pointing out that the FQ300 has 72BHP more and costs £7000 more than the RX8 there comparing it against.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
Sorry, the threads premis was that a stock UK RX-8 was slower round a UK test track against a UK FQ300 - and that means no RX-8 can catch an EVO.

I'm pointing out that the FQ300 has 72BHP more and costs £7000 more than the RX8 there comparing it against.

If you put it that way then compare the cost / performance ratio of the Murcielago to the FQ300.

And yes I know the RX8 can also be compared the same way as to the M3.

I guess I am just trying to say that you get better performance per dollar in terms of performance you get not the appointment. Evo and RX8 are in different category in terms of performance.

Price/performance in the UK is undoubtedly lead by cars like the caterham R series and the Ultima.

But spend that £7000 on a turbo and stiffer racing suspension for the RX-8 (say giving the RX-8 300hp) and it would stuff the EVO under most conditions.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
Price/performance in the UK is undoubtedly lead by cars like the caterham R series and the Ultima.

But spend that £7000 on a turbo and stiffer racing suspension for the RX-8 (say giving the RX-8 300hp) and it would stuff the EVO under most conditions.

This is one of those speculation type of condition. giving the RX8 300hp will require lots of money (turbo kit). AWD traction is hard to beat, I would say go test drive one before making any statement about it.

Don't know if you watch Tsukuba time attacks but the fastest car (non-formula or racecars) on Tsukuba is an Evo V (JUN). BTW the time attack has no rules on mods sky is the limit.

evo still looks like a fugly ralley car to me. i can't stand those boxy cars, the 8 has the EVO in the bag as far as the overall car is concerned. i could really care less if the evo has the hottest piston pusher in it right now as far as i'm concerned the EVO is crap.

Originally posted by Jhouse
evo still looks like a fugly ralley car to me. i can't stand those boxy cars, the 8 has the EVO in the bag as far as the overall car is concerned. i could really care less if the evo has the hottest piston pusher in it right now as far as i'm concerned the EVO is crap.

Thanks, for the insightful post! With the tone of many on this board, I wouldn't be surprised if RX8s (and their owners) get looked down upon as being superficial by the enthusiast community in the next couple of years.

revhappy, that's uncalled for. You're getting pissed off because someone's stating their opinion on a car you like-not even attacking you specifically- and you're responding by making sweeping generalizations directed at pissing off the whole forum.

We need to get back to the facts instead of opinions. The evo may look ugly to some but good to other, vise versa with the RX8.

Originally posted by Elara
revhappy, that's uncalled for. You're getting pissed off because someone's stating their opinion on a car you like-not even attacking you specifically- and you're responding by making sweeping generalizations directed at pissing off the whole forum.

Elara,
Thanks for the input, but I feel my post IS called for. In the last several months, I have noticed a change in the overall character of this board. Specifically, there has been intolerance in regards to other cars. This intolerance is often expressed in insults about cars such as the WRX, STI and EVO that seem vain and superficial. In fact, some other boards have already begun to comment on this and an unfavorable reputation is starting to hatch. Perhaps, the truth "pisses off" some on the forum, but hopefully it has a chance to improve some of the posts.

hey its just my opinion about the distasteful styling of the car. Now if revhpp was just trying to get a rise out of me he is going to have to try a little harder but i'm sure it will be without any luck. My opinion is just my opinion and well sorry but thats just the way life is, and i'll be the first to say yes, Everybody has an opinion and yes opinions ARE like assholes and yes i have one. hey and if anybody would like to they can call me one.

OKi'll get off my 238 hp high chair and let you guys get back to what the post is really about.

WWEEEEEE this was fun!!!!!

Originally posted by Jhouse
hey its just my opinion about the distasteful styling of the car. Now if revhpp was just trying to get a rise out of me he is going to have to try a little harder but i'm sure it will be without any luck. My opinion is just my opinion and well sorry but thats just the way life is, and i'll be the first to say yes, Everybody has an opinion and yes opinions ARE like assholes and yes i have one. hey and if anybody would like to they can call me one.

OKi'll get off my 238 hp high chair and let you guys get back to what the post is really about.

WWEEEEEE this was fun!!!!!


That was a much better way of expressing your opinion!

I think most of the guys on evolutionm.net have lancers, not EVO's.

Although a good deal of them DO have evo's. Just from what i've seen when i attended one of their meets... about 10 lancers and 3 evo's or something.

Originally posted by demonfire
I think most of the guys on evolutionm.net have lancers, not EVO's.

Although a good deal of them DO have evo's. Just from what i've seen when i attended one of their meets... about 10 lancers and 3 evo's or something.

Yes, some of the meets have a lot of Lancer guys. However, clubs like DCEVO and EVO-NY tend to have EVOs. :p

I'm not as rabid about this as some are, but see what you think...

Your a car company thats looking to make a comeback into a pretty lucrative market with a engine that certain epople really jump behind and will most likely form a large very dedicated fanbase. Your preparing this car for a launch in one of it's major markets. One thing that has to be done multiple times will be making sure the car is legal in every state. This means they had to go through all legal requirements for every state at least once. They have done this before for every car they have sold. They know this engine is going to have a tough time passing the new super tight emissions testing, since the engine is notorious for poor emissions. They had to have done all the paperwork necesary to be able to legally sell the car in all these states. I refuse to believe (now) that somehow they overlooked something as major as the cat life since it is a LARGE change going from 50K to 120K miles. It's not like they tuned the car and suddenly realized that the Japan tune would not pass emissions in other countries. The company structure would not have allowed this. it's not a "oops, missed that" type mistake.

They lied for whatever reasons, but they lied. When the prolem was found all they ahd to do was say that the new US emissions laws forced them to detune the car from optimal power and thats it. it's the governments fault instead. Why didnt they? That was the truth after all if the info out now is to be beleived. SO again, they lied :D

Lying bastiches! I'm gonna go drive my fun ass car just to feel better :D (yes, I am not upset about the lie, just stating my view).


Originally posted by M-ster
I'm not sure if we're all being to harsh on Mazda. Did they really lied? Well the JDM's cars still producing 247bhp, as they advertised, but just before they release their export models, they realize the original specs are not meeting the emission stardard of the other markets. I don't think they have a choice but to de-tune the ecu, and by then they're probably a little too late to re-instate their position.

Or did they really tried to cover-up intentionally??

Really, I can't see what the big deal is. Maybe I'm missing something (and that's a real possibility - wouldn't be the first time), but it's a Lancer. Ok, so it goes a lot faster than a stock Lancer and likely handles significantly better (personally I've never driven one and really have no desire or inclination to do so); but isn't this the same old concept of a high end Nissan Sentra? Nissan did a simliar thing in the early/mid 90's with the Sentra SE-R by putting the engine from the 240SX under the hood. Granted there's a few more ponies to feed on the EVO than on the SE-R, but as one friend put it succintly to another friend of mine with an SE-R - "Yeah...but it's still a Sentra." It just strikes me that this car was produced as a market specialty aimed at (not near...at) the younger, street-racing inclined driver.

It still occurs to me that a Lancer by any other name is still a...

Maybe I'm just missing the boat on this one.

(This was not an intentional flame by any stretch of the imagination - just .02 of shoot from the hip analysis. The author is not responsible for the opinions of Alan Alda or Gene-Gene the Dancing Machine. Batteries not included. Some assembly required.)

Originally posted by Hanzo
You need to test drive one, it is NOT a straight line car. I have driven both and Evo corners with much greater speed and stability. RX8 is a fun car to drive however evo is just raw and fast.

hooo hoooOOO... Evo is way more fun than the rx-8 I mean way. Through my experience the rx-8 is nimble and light, while the evo is like a fun roller coaster that goes faster when u turn. I have drove a 15 mph curve going 70 you can literally feel the G-force pushing you as hard as the recaros can hold you. I have not drove the rx-8 that extreme but I have played around w/it;its fun but I don't think it can hit you like the evo would. Looks... I have been debating that department b4 I bought my evo, but numerous times people give me a thumbs up or girls waving @ me shouting "give me a ride." The only comment that was weird was my mom she thought the car looked like a pretty plane. I can't say much for all but I test drove alot of cars and evo got to be the funnest under the 50k range.

side note I gotten 270 miles a tank,19 dollars a tank, and thats 60%street/40%freeway. Woot.

Originally posted by revhappy
Elara,
Thanks for the input, but I feel my post IS called for. In the last several months, I have noticed a change in the overall character of this board. Specifically, there has been intolerance in regards to other cars. This intolerance is often expressed in insults about cars such as the WRX, STI and EVO that seem vain and superficial. In fact, some other boards have already begun to comment on this and an unfavorable reputation is starting to hatch. Perhaps, the truth "pisses off" some on the forum, but hopefully it has a chance to improve some of the posts.

True. That's all I see is insults.

We just have to appreciate cars as what they are, I love the oversteer feel of a FR but also love the awesome grip with AWD. MR has a great mid to corner exit feel with great balance, RR has a even more extreme oversteer feel, and FF well, FF could be fun with some hand brake action.

Different car for different people. If a true automotive enthusiast, have an open mind and love all cars that are fun to drive. The “my car is better than your car” type of post is on every board, needless to say it will go on forever, just look at the bow tie vs. the blue oval. Don't hate, appreciate.

Sorry about the thread creep but....

If someone (*cough*Hanzo*cough*) would be nice enough to explain in detail exactly what FR FF and such mean. I know what AWD is but a complete list would be appreciated.

Clayton

FR = Front engine Rear wheel drive
FF = Front engine Front wheel drive
MR = Mid engine Rear wheel drive
RR = Rear engine Rear wheel drive

O'course the RX-8 is mid engined - rear wheel drive.

50/50 weight distribution, - but more importantly most of that as close to the centre as possible ratgher than hung over the wheels - so gives lowpolar moment.

Allows easy switch between uner and oversteer onthe limit, fast turn in etc.

Maybe I should separate these:

FR = Front engine Rear wheel drive
FF = Front engine Front wheel drive
FMR = Front Midship engine Rear wheel drive
RMR = Rear Midship engine Rear wheel drive
RR = Rear engine Rear wheel drive

the 8 is a FR

Originally posted by S3/P3/E2
Really, I can't see what the big deal is. Maybe I'm missing something (and that's a real possibility - wouldn't be the first time), but it's a Lancer. Ok, so it goes a lot faster than a stock Lancer and likely handles significantly better (personally I've never driven one and really have no desire or inclination to do so); but isn't this the same old concept of a high end Nissan Sentra? Nissan did a simliar thing in the early/mid 90's with the Sentra SE-R by putting the engine from the 240SX under the hood. Granted there's a few more ponies to feed on the EVO than on the SE-R, but as one friend put it succintly to another friend of mine with an SE-R - "Yeah...but it's still a Sentra." It just strikes me that this car was produced as a market specialty aimed at (not near...at) the younger, street-racing inclined driver.

It still occurs to me that a Lancer by any other name is still a...

Maybe I'm just missing the boat on this one.

(This was not an intentional flame by any stretch of the imagination - just .02 of shoot from the hip analysis. The author is not responsible for the opinions of Alan Alda or Gene-Gene the Dancing Machine. Batteries not included. Some assembly required.)

The distinction is that the EVO is SO different from the Lancer that they are two seperate animals. I'm not just talking about "speed". The driving dynamics (steering feel, shifter action, balance, behavior at the limit, pedal placement, great seats, etc) make it a phenominal drivers car. Basically, its one of the closest and best examples of race to street car transformation.

I try to test almost every enthusiast car I can to broaden my horizons and tastes. I recommend a test-drive of the EVO to at least get an understanding of high performance rall-inspired cars.

If you don't beleive me, read the Automobile Magazine article where they call it not just the car of the year, but the car of the decade!

Hell I think the evo is a awsome car. I had my reservations about it at one point but now i can really say Its an awsome ride.
I still prefer the looks of the older evos definately but I really repsect the evo VIII. Especially since they fixed the powerplant it should be one extrememly fun ride. It just looks like an extremely solid platform to run.

I will say however i do like my 8 more because i know what it will do when modded. I know what my hp goals are, what mods im looking into and what my uses will be, I like having the option of using a turbo or staying NA. The only part of the 8 that remains to be tested is the trannys response to power. The exhaust note of rotary is just awsome too once you let the car breathe.

Originally posted by revhappy
Elara,
Thanks for the input, but I feel my post IS called for. In the last several months, I have noticed a change in the overall character of this board. Specifically, there has been intolerance in regards to other cars. This intolerance is often expressed in insults about cars such as the WRX, STI and EVO that seem vain and superficial. In fact, some other boards have already begun to comment on this and an unfavorable reputation is starting to hatch. Perhaps, the truth "pisses off" some on the forum, but hopefully it has a chance to improve some of the posts.

I was going to ignore this, but Moogle apparently wanted it brought back up. The tone of this board isn't any more or less tolerant of other cars than any other. I suggest you try my350z.com, the forums at caranddriver.com or nopistons- some people hate any car except for the one they own, some don't- you get a mix no matter where you go. The change you've noticed is the amount of members, and a lot of differing opinions- that is all. And the most vocal are sometimes the most vehement. It's the same anywhere you go. I seriously doubt we have a reputation among cars boards any more than any car boards do. And I seriously doubt any other car boards care enough about this forum to make a point out of spreading a "reputation". And if they do, they have some serious issues of their own if that's the best use of their time they can find.

Originally posted by Elara
I was going to ignore this, but Moogle apparently wanted it brought back up. The tone of this board isn't any more or less tolerant of other cars than any other. I suggest you try my350z.com, the forums at caranddriver.com or nopistons- some people hate any car except for the one they own, some don't- you get a mix no matter where you go. The change you've noticed is the amount of members, and a lot of differing opinions- that is all. And the most vocal are sometimes the most vehement. It's the same anywhere you go. I seriously doubt we have a reputation among cars boards any more than any car boards do. And I seriously doubt any other car boards care enough about this forum to make a point out of spreading a "reputation". And if they do, they have some serious issues of their own if that's the best use of their time they can find.


While you're correct when it comes to some forums there are those out there that welcome owners of all types of cars and respect each vehicle for what it is. Sure there will always be exceptions and no board will be free of blinded fanbois and zealotry, however the zealotry at this board is rather high compared to most that I frequent. That zealotry and bashing of cars does little besides attracting more trolls. The zealotry at the RSX forums was pretty bad when that board opened, now they have more non RSX owners on that board than they do RSX owners as a result, not that that's really a bad thing. It certainly has caused some problems, but makes the boards an interesting read and has made those forums a gathering place for enthusiasts of all types. However being very accepting of other car owners can have a similar effect. One WRX board in particular has a ton of non WRX owners and it's because there are a ton of car enthusiasts and they feel welcomed. I can't tell you how many SRT-4 owners we have that are regular posters over at our boards simply because they couldn't stand the fanbois, flames, immaturity over at some of their forums. Many non Subaru owners have even started going to Subaru meets, which is the way it should be.

Cars forums are almost always linked at one time or another to other car forums, and I have seen mentions of RX-8 owners and this board on other car forums. However, the zealotry has a lot to do with the car being so new and everyone wanting to defend their new toy, or even bash everyone elses toy. The bashing has faded somewhat but is still pretty strong. I think as the months pass those that really are trolls will move on and the zealotry will die down as the car becomes less new.

In the end the car enthusiasts that were just here to learn about the car (owners and non owners alike) will be the dominant voice on this board and hopefully we will continue to learn from one another. I've learned a lot of things about the 8, good and bad and I hope that I've taught some 8 owners a thing or two as well. Whether it be about my car, other cars I know about, info on tires, autox, mods, wine, whatever. A lot of people on this forum need to realize just because someone says a car does something better than the 8 doesn't mean they are bashing the 8. Nor when someone brings up another car, does it mean you should bash it because you think it's ugly or doesn't handle as well as the 8... Different things appeal to different people and one persons beauty could be another persons beast.

Through Ranting,
Ike

"Thou shall be punished for Moogle's sins" :p

In all seriousness, I stand by my comments. Can you honestly tell me that this board (in general, not anyone specifically) has not become more vain since say the spring of 2002 (when I was a mere lurker)when there was a total of 5 or so posts a day? :confused: Perhaps, that's an inevitable path for a growing board, but I think we can do better. Forums like s2ki.com, elisetalk.com and the miataforum don't generally resort to that sort of behavior. As for my claim about the vanity reputation starting, I saw this mentioned on evolutionm.net and i think s2ki.com. Every board has its faults, so please don't take this as a bash of the forum. In fact, this is one of my favorite boards because of the quality posters we have.


Originally posted by Elara
I was going to ignore this, but Moogle apparently wanted it brought back up. The tone of this board isn't any more or less tolerant of other cars than any other. I suggest you try my350z.com, the forums at caranddriver.com or nopistons- some people hate any car except for the one they own, some don't- you get a mix no matter where you go. The change you've noticed is the amount of members, and a lot of differing opinions- that is all. And the most vocal are sometimes the most vehement. It's the same anywhere you go. I seriously doubt we have a reputation among cars boards any more than any car boards do. And I seriously doubt any other car boards care enough about this forum to make a point out of spreading a "reputation". And if they do, they have some serious issues of their own if that's the best use of their time they can find.

Originally posted by revhappy
"Thou shall be punished for Moogle's sins" :p

In all seriousness, I stand by my comments. Can you honestly tell me that this board (in general, not anyone specifically) has not become more vain since say the spring of 2002 (when I was a mere lurker)when there was a total of 5 or so posts a day? :confused: Perhaps, that's an inevitable path for a growing board, but I think we can do better. Forums like s2ki.com, elisetalk.com and the miataforum don't generally resort to that sort of behavior. As for my claim about the vanity reputation starting, I saw this mentioned on evolutionm.net and i think s2ki.com. Every board has its faults, so please don't take this as a bash of the forum. In fact, this is one of my favorite boards because of the quality posters we have.


I don't, at all, think you're bashing the forum- I just think that you're mistaking the growing pains of a still-relatively new forum for elitism. And yes, I have noticed the board has become more vain, but only because we actually have cars to be vain about now. I don't think it's any better, or worse, than others.

Originally posted by Elara
I don't, at all, think you're bashing the forum- I just think that you're mistaking the growing pains of a still-relatively new forum for elitism. And yes, I have noticed the board has become more vain, but only because we actually have cars to be vain about now. I don't think it's any better, or worse, than others.

All I am saying is that many on this boad put too much emphasis on superficial looks. This is a major transformation from the technical, car-based discussions that we had in the past and that make up a greater portion of the posts and sentiments on other boards.

Originally posted by revhappy
All I am saying is that many on this boad put too much emphasis on superficial looks. This is a major transformation from the technical, car-based discussions that we had in the past and that make up a greater portion of the posts and sentiments on other boards.

I will concede your point. I still don't think we'll develop any reputation of note, however :)

Originally posted by Elara
I will concede your point. I still don't think we'll develop any reputation of note, however :)

Don't worry, the overall quality of the baord is great. That's the main reason I "stuck around" after I chose another car.

This may come off as preachy, and I do not mean it to, but this board is FAR better then many I have seen. Don't believe me? Just got to a wrx or 350z forum, and take a good look at the foulness spewed there. I also do not believe that this board has any type of "negative" reputation, except maybe by the trolls who get banned. In fact, the regular posters here are almost all seemingly of high quality, with a few nameless exceptions.

A forum like this is meant for more than just tech info, it is also a place to exchange ideas with like minded people on a broad number of topics...hence the lounge area.

Now, the flame wars of the last few months were nasty, as I know first hand. But they were the result of posts by people who do not own the car and were looking to start trouble. Well, if you ask someone to punch you, you should not be surprised when you get hit.

Part of the problem may be the fact that trolls get hit very hard with facts, and when the situation turns to insults, some pretty darn good ones! They think about it, need to boost their fragile egos, so they bad mouth us on other sites.

The real problem is not this site, it is the fact that people in general are ill mannered, nasty and mean. When you are just a fake name on the net, you have no need to think about the consequences of your actions, and so say whatever you want. This is empowering to a certain type of person, who want to lash out at others for any number of reasons. (envy, for example).

Now, I can garantee almost every one of these trolls are under the age of 25. That would explane the fixation with HP. I am not generalizing, but I have noticed the biggest decline in that age group. I do not know why, but I wish I could take you all with me to court when I am ordered to represent a minor.

I had one, who was video taped stealing, actually yell at me because everyone was looking at him like he was a criminal!!
Absolutly no remorse.

I pointed out he was, and was told to F@#@ myself.

Another time I was representing a first time drug charge, and told the 17 year old client to dress well for court. He shows up in a cypress hill T-shirt, with a big green pot leaf on the front!

You see, he was not going to compromise for "the man".


Another time my 16 year old client brought TWO handguns to school, because another boy was going to fight him. You see, he would not let anyone "disrespect" him that way.

Our future leaders, they get to vote, AND they get to post!

I tell you, the world is turning into a dark place.

Nice post Klegg... I couldn't agree more (about the decline in societies morals). I don't visit message boards for other cars so I don't have an opinion there. My first impression of this place, however, is that most of the members are constructive and love the '8. Trolls are trolls and should be dealt with appropriately. I do find it funny that all discussions with trolls end up with 1/4 mile and HP figures being thrown around. A funny car get's great 1/4 mile times and has all kinds of horsepower, but I wouldn't want to drive it on a windy road while going to the liquor store.

Thanks for the support, I actually expected to get flamed.

Klegg, I like what you had to say. And as far as what EVO owners think of us, it doesn't matter to me all that much. The fact is I respect the hell out of their vehicles. However, I just didn't make my purchase choice based on the same things that EVO owners did. Different cars, different purposes. The EVO, STi, Rx8 and G35 were all on my shopping list, I assume anyone who buys any of these cars can afford the other, so we all decide what is more important in our lives and go with it. Frankly, as my FD is really pretty fast, another really fast car (STI or EVO) would have been overkill. Plus I love rotaries. I love the style and road feel of the 8 and it certainly is a very good performer, so it was the choice for me.

Originally posted by klegg
Our future leaders, they get to vote, AND they get to post!

Here's my solution - let 'em go to court, try/sentence them as adults, make felons out of them and take away their right to vote. If you can't behave in our society, then civilized people like us are perfectly capable of making your decisions for you.

Conservative O/T rant complete - we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.