So there I was...first time in the snow, not a mile from my house and doing exactly 17 mph when it happened...got moving slightly downhill...back end came around, slid towards the sidewalk, front wheels jumped the curb and pulled the back end around which slammed the left rear tire against the curb. Busted the rim up real bad and definately threw it out of alignment. I got towed to the local Mazda dealership, but they won't be open till Monday and I've got no idea the extent of the damage. I know the axel isn't completely broken b/c I drove it about 30 ft afterwards to get out of traffic, but the tire is visibly out of alignment. GRRR!

I've got a spare rim, so that's no big deal, but I really hope the axel/U joint/struts/etc are alright. I guess I'll find out Monday. :(

Sorry, that sucks:-( Were you running the stock shoes or winters??

I think we're going to hear of a lot of 8s damaged by driving in the snow. I know Gordon has been warning all of us for a while, but, at least in the US, cars are typically sold with all seasons. I've bought many new cars and my 8 was the only one that required a tire change to make it through the winter. I think most people that don't read this board would have no idea that "summer performance tires" = "DON"T DRIVE IN SNOW". I wouldn't have. Anyway, I hope the damage is minimal FighterPilot. Get good snow tires and the 8 is great!

What is the deal with Mazda and the dealers? They seem to be very determined to get these RX8s out this winter on factory tires.

I probably would have had a similar problem with our last big snow storm, but I couldn't move my car 20 ft out of my parking lot.

I'm also interested in the other posting where a dealer threatened that the warrenty would not be valid with non-factory tires/wheels.

What does Mazda know about this car that they are not saying?

Originally posted by Natew00


I'm also interested in the other posting where a dealer threatened that the warrenty would not be valid with non-factory tires/wheels.



Actually, from the post that I read, I believe that the dealer said that the warranty would not be valid if the owner had a non-mazda shop put snow tires on the FACTORY RIMS. He was saying that there is a good chance than an aftermarket shop will not be able to dismount or mount tires onto the factory rims without damaging the Tire Pressure Monitors in the wheels. This has been an issue.

It is hard to find a shop which has a mounting machine that can handle 18 inch rims, and virtually impossible to find one that has experience with a TPMS system like this.

The best choice at this time is separate rims and snow tires either with or without the TPMS monitors. The monitors adds $100 a wheel, and Tirerack has been selling them installed on aftermarket rims for some members.

Originally posted by FighterPilot
So there I was...first time in the snow, not a mile from my house and doing exactly 17 mph when it happened...got moving slightly downhill...back end came around, slid towards the sidewalk, front wheels jumped the curb and pulled the back end around which slammed the left rear tire against the curb. Busted the rim up real bad and definately threw it out of alignment. I got towed to the local Mazda dealership, but they won't be open till Monday and I've got no idea the extent of the damage. I know the axel isn't completely broken b/c I drove it about 30 ft afterwards to get out of traffic, but the tire is visibly out of alignment. GRRR!

I've got a spare rim, so that's no big deal, but I really hope the axel/U joint/struts/etc are alright. I guess I'll find out Monday. :(

That truly sux. But, I hope you didn't brake anything that couldn't be fixed.

Did you have the RE 40's on it? They are classifed as all weather tires..but, like they said Gordon has been warning us about snow and they 8...

9-K Rever

The stock RE040's are classified as performance summer tires, they are definately not all-weather. We're going to be seeing a lot of posts like this over the winter I think, Mazda should inform people better of the type of tires on the RX-8, it seems so many just don't understand.

RTFM (read the fine manual).

Page 4-9. Winter Driving. It specifically states the car is equipped with summer tires.

Originally posted by Natew00
What does Mazda know about this car that they are not saying?

How does the fact that summer tires suck in snow turn into some conspiracy? My car rocks in the snow with winter tires and wheels. With the DSC and traction control both on, I can't get the car to spin around.

I am sorry to hear that Fighterpilot... I made it through the first big storm and knew that new tires were a must. I ordered wheels and blizzack's from tirerack and will keep ya posted on how they run. They are probably making a killing this year just from rx-8 owners in this club... The set will be here tuesday but I wish I had them today cuz its snowing yet again!

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate accident FighterPilot. Winter tires are a must especially in light weight vehicles but again even more so when you run summer tires. I recommend to everyone that they purchase a seperate set of wheels and not just tires. In the long run you will see a $$$ savings because you won't have to remount and balance your tires and 18" snow tires aren't cheap. I found 17" wheels for $60/wheel and you can get tires ranging from $120-$259/tire depending on what kind of tires you want. When I was looking at the tires I wanted for my baby they were $259/tire on the 18"s. So I went middle of the road and spent less. My traction is great and I have had no problems getting around town or stopping in the winter.

Yeah...I've definately learned my lesson...snow tires will be on before I go out again in the snow. This was my first time on snow in a RWD car and it seemed to happen out of nowhere.

My biggest problem now is that if the damage is anything more than simple balance and alignment, I might be in trouble. I'm in the Air Force and due to report to Texas the first week of January (only reason I got this car in the first place...going to warmer climates). If the damage requires more time than that to fix, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.

Bad boy, baaaad bad boy! (sound of wrists getting smacked with the proverbial ruler)

You were told time and time again that you should not take the 8 out and play with it in the snow!

It's not like we didn't warn you! Now you have to explain to the Rotary God why you went and took YOUR 8 out in the wet stuff without putting on it's galoshes! :D

After reading this thread I starting doing research (nothing better to do today because its SNOWING and I don't have my snow tires yet!).

The RE040 tires are in fact, SUMMER PERFORMANCE tires. There is even a suggestion that they not be used in summer in very wet, rainy areas.

Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but my dealer (and the MAZDA literature) never said anything like, "Hey dude, by the way, after plopping down $28k for this vehicle, the first thing you really need to do is buy SNOW TIRES if you are going to be driving it in snow this winter." In fact, for my old RX-7s I had snow tires. I just think that MAZDA, and at least the dealer I bought mine from could have/should have warned me in BIG LETTERS about the snow tire thing.

Maybe the board here can do a real service to newbies and get the word out - DON'T DRIVE IN THE SNOW ON THE STOCK TIRES!

Ok. Maybe I've got a touch of cabin fever. I'll stop the rant now. Thanks, that's better. So drive safely out there.

Originally posted by mellenmb
Maybe the board here can do a real service to newbies and get the word out - DON'T DRIVE IN THE SNOW ON THE STOCK TIRES!

You mean something like having a sticky thread about winter driving and winter tires (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13623) at the top of this forum section? You mean like having dozens of threads in the Tires and Wheels section and Canada regional section over the past 4 months discussing winter tire and wheel selections, which included warnings starting in August that the OEM tires would be useless in winter? You mean like having one forum member who has made it practically a personal crusade to post in every thread discussing winter driving in the RX-8 and point out how the OEM tires will be useless and that people should get winter tires?

Yeah, that would be handy, wouldn't it?

Regards,
Gordon

Move to Phoenix, problem solved. Although, you end up wearing out your summer tires alot faster than back east.

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
You mean something like having a sticky thread about winter driving and winter tires at the top of this forum section? You mean like having dozens of threads in the Tires and Wheels section and Canada regional section over the past 4 months discussing winter tire and wheel selections, which included warnings starting in August that the OEM tires would be useless in winter? You mean like having one forum member who has made it practically a personal crusade to post in every thread discussing winter driving in the RX-8 and point out how the OEM tires will be useless and that people should get winter tires?

Yeah, that would be handy, wouldn't it?
Hmmm....do I detect a hint of sarcasm here.....we should start a pool to see who can guess how many more people will start a new thread before winter ends with their revelation that the stock tires suck in snow.

ROFLMAO :D

I understand peoples' frustrations about having to buy snow tires, but this is a sports car. And you can see that the tires are low profile. You have to expect to do a little personal research when you drop $30K on something.

Originally posted by mamccubbin
I understand peoples' frustrations about having to buy snow tires, but this is a sports car. And you can see that the tires are low profile. You have to expect to do a little personal research when you drop $30K on something.

Exactly - Mazda is certainly not the only automaker selling cars with high performance summer tires. Ever check out a 350Z? Miata? BMW or Audi sport package cars? AMG Mercedes models? Mustang GTs or Cobras? Corvette? etc, etc. Every one of those will have the exact same issues trying to drive in winter conditions on performance summer tires.

This isn't anything new to performance cars. It's also why some cars get a reputation as being terrible in winter - because their owners don't understand the characteristics of summer tires, and blame the car for poor winter performance instead of the inappropriate tires.

Regards,
Gordon

I wonder what I should replace the OE summer tires with when the time comes. I have the snows for winter, but I could get by with less than autocross-quality handling in the interest of wet-weather traction and possibly more tread life with an all-season tire. Has anyone out there worn out their original tires yet and replaced them?

Of couse I read things on this forum and others about the (un)likelyhood that the stock tires (or any high perf summer tires for that matter) would work in the snow, but hell! Look at 'em! They're wide and flat, with big smooth tread blocks, and the tread doesn't have much open or deep space between blocks.

They look pretty ski like to me. But you want quick response and good grip when the pavement becomes warm and dry again, (in another five friggin' months here!) don't you? Ahh, the beauty of two sets of tires & wheels.

I'm sorry if this offend anyone...but i don't understand how ppl can, not know the type of tires when they buy the car... even if it is Four Seasons... i still always change my tires in the winter.. Tires are such a big factor for cars... it is stupid, not to know your tires......

Originally posted by 13B-MSP
I'm sorry if this offend anyone...but i don't understand how ppl can, not know the type of tires when they buy the car... even if it is Four Seasons... i still always change my tires in the winter.. Tires are such a big factor for cars... it is stupid, not to know your tires......

ditto, well said.


I was out in my 8 going to dinner. After dinner, I noticed snow all over the ground, boy was I freaking out:-D, but I made it home going very very very slow. If you dont have snowtires, dont drive in the snow.

Same situation here ALPHAPENGUIN. I went to work in a nice cloudy morning, not a sign of snow. An hour later it just started snowing! So I was freaking out too. I was deciding to take an early lunch like 9am, hehehe...or wait till 12, hoping the underlayer snow dont turn to ice. But eventually it did. Right in the parking lot I couldn't even make 10 feet. I had to drive of in reverse, hehehe.

this was a month ago and since then I took my winter SUV out of the garage.

Obviously I made a mistake by not stopping immediately, but like many of you, this weather snuck up on me too. My inexperience in such didn't help and taught me a tough lesson the hard way...but how bout a little compassion for a guy whos 8 is stuck in the shop!?! :(

Originally posted by FighterPilot
Obviously I made a mistake by not stopping immediately, but like many of you, this weather snuck up on me too. My inexperience in such didn't help and taught me a tough lesson the hard way...but how bout a little compassion for a guy whos 8 is stuck in the shop!?! :(

Don't worry, we all feel sorry for your 8.:)

The rest of us are going to be feeling sorry for ourselves if lots of owners wreck their cars this winter and our insurance rates go up.

Oh and sorry about your 8 fighterpilot!

so will 17" tires fit on the GT? I want to get inexpensive rims for snow tires

Originally posted by miata2rx8
so will 17" tires fit on the GT? I want to get inexpensive rims for snow tires

Yes.

Originally posted by miata2rx8
so will 17" tires fit on the GT? I want to get inexpensive rims for snow tires

What RX-GR8 said - yes.

As mentioned, there are many threads here (in this section, in the Tires and Wheels section, and in the Canada regional section) discussing suitable 17" wheels that fit the RX-8. If you don't want to expend the minimal effort to do the research here, just go straight to www.tirerack.com and check out their winter packages for RX-8 for 17".

Oh, and avoid the Blizzak WS-50 unless all the other winter tires are sold out!

Regards,
Gordon

No to the Blizzaks? Whyzzat? Are the Blizzak WS50 similar to the Maypop WD-40?

Bit the bullet (the big one) and ordered Pirelli Winter 210 and ASA LW5 wheels from TireRack. Will be here Thursday, after all the snow melts. But at least I'll be mobile when the snow comes again.

Thanks for your feedback, Gordon.

Originally posted by Natew00
What is the deal with Mazda and the dealers? They seem to be very determined to get these RX8s out this winter on factory tires.

I probably would have had a similar problem with our last big snow storm, but I couldn't move my car 20 ft out of my parking lot.

I'm also interested in the other posting where a dealer threatened that the warrenty would not be valid with non-factory tires/wheels.

What does Mazda know about this car that they are not saying?


Mazda easily could have offered a winter tire package. With a volume buy on their part, with wheels and tires selected for the car, they could have offered a discounted package deal that would have been more convenient and a good service to their customers.

It does snow in Japan, after all, and the car had to be tested in frigid conditions.

Since Mazda did not offer such, the dealers could have been more on the ball and offered winter tire packages. Some may have.

Maybe future buyers will find more economical 17" steel wheels available.

First of all, the topic of this thread states that "the snow broke (your) 8". Sorry, but the snow did not break your 8, you did. Fortunately, it sounds like you've learned from your mistake and will be getting winter tires.

Second, people keep calling these tires, "snow tires". Well, actually, they're winter tires; designed to be used in cold weather conditions, AS WELL AS snow. The summer performance tires do not perform as well (traction wise) in cold conditions. So, even if it does not snow much in your area, if it gets cold, you're better off with winter tires.

Originally posted by Dick Carlson
No to the Blizzaks? Whyzzat? Are the Blizzak WS50 similar to the Maypop WD-40?

I've been asked a few times in PMs why I don't recommend the WS-50s, so I'll post what I wrote here as well:

Well, there's several reasons (why I don't like the WS-50s). Number one is that on dry pavement, their responsiveness is incredibly mushy - they make your car feel like you're driving through mud all the time. Many other winter tires, including the LM-22, do not feel like that. The WS-50s will give slightly better traction on ice than other winter tires, but the other winter tires are still great, and provide equal traction on snow and better traction, cornering, and responsiveness on cold dry pavement. In the tradeoffs department, the WS-50s bet the farm on ice traction, and are less effective on everything else. Second, the WS-50s use Bridgestone's now-traditional layered tread compound, where the outer 50% is the hydrophilic (ice-grabbing) compound which wears quickly, and the inner 50% is a decidedly average all-season compound. So, once the WS-50 is half-worn, it becomes a less-than-ordinary all-season tire, while something like the LM-22 or other winter tires are still providing decent winter grip.

Big picture, the WS-50 is fabulous in nasty conditions (ice/snow), but less satisfactory than the other winter tires when conditions are just cold but not so nasty. They're still far, far better than all-seasons or certainly summers!

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
... You mean like having one forum member who has made it practically a personal crusade to post in every thread discussing winter driving in the RX-8 and point out how the OEM tires will be useless and that people should get winter tires?

Yeah, that would be handy, wouldn't it?

Regards,
Gordon
True, but you are taking this a bit personally, aren't you Gord?

BTW, my 8 ROCKS on icy/snowy roads with my Nokians on it.

I have never had so much fun driving in winter!

Originally posted by zoomalot
Mazda easily could have offered a winter tire package. With a volume buy on their part, with wheels and tires selected for the car, they could have offered a discounted package deal that would have been more convenient and a good service to their customers.

It does snow in Japan, after all, and the car had to be tested in frigid conditions.

Since Mazda did not offer such, the dealers could have been more on the ball and offered winter tire packages. Some may have.

Maybe future buyers will find more economical 17" steel wheels available.
The base model wheel in Japan is a 16". It would have been perfect for winter tires.. Fits over the calipers, proper offset, the whole deal.
A few of us have called Mazda Canada and asked, but no, we are stuck on our own for wheels, tires, and not even a way to install a block heater.

The car rocks, and Mazda North America sucks.

But we already know that.
Try buying tires with that cheesy AMEX debit card..

Tirerack had no problem taking my AMEX debit card as part of the purchase, with the balance going on another card. I got 17" wheels with LM22's and they are great in the snow and ice. When I ordered them tirerack didn't have the sensors, or know about them - wish I had waited a bit to order. as the blinking light is sure distracting. Yes I know I can cover ti with tape, but I just haven't done it yet.

As many of you know, I had a slight run in with a curb after being caught in the first snow of the season (See the "The Snow Broke My 8" thred).

Here's my problem: I took it to be fixed and found that I bent one or both of the lateral links on the left rear wheel. The dealership tells me that there are none in the US and it will be at least next week before they can get one. However, I am in the military and due to report to Texas very soon. I have to leave the area here this weekend.

I know this isn't the parts section, but does anyone either have a spair one or both of these links, know where I could find them, or have helpful suggestions? This board has been a great help to me, and now I'm reaching out for some more.

Thanks,

Justin

Originally posted by canzoomer
True, but you are taking this a bit personally, aren't you Gord?

;) I hope not - I'm trying not to, but I don't want the RX-8 to start getting a reputation as a terrible winter vehicle when it's all down to the tires. Helping raise awareness here, at the home of RX-8 enthusiasts, seemed to be a good place to put in a bit of effort. I've actually controlled myself and ignored several opportunities to post "I told you so"s! :D

BTW, my 8 ROCKS on icy/snowy roads with my Nokians on it.

I have never had so much fun driving in winter!

Ditto, it's really a blast - I much prefer driving the 8 over our Audi quattro (which also has winter tires)!

Regards,
Gordon

For any of you potential saviors out there...it is the front lateral link for the left rear wheel without DSC, part # F151-28-550A. Please Please help me!

Gord is correct about the Blizzak WS-50s, and as I'm sure Canzoomer can attest Nokian makes probably the best studless winter tires in the business, so if you can afford them get them! Uou guys might want to consider Discount Tire Direct as an alternative to Tirerack, just don't count on a knowledgable service department from them, so know what it is you're after. Also for whoever was asking about a good all season tire in the wet I can't say enough good things about Contiextremes. I've even gone through a few winters with those tires without a hitch, however this was on a DSM AWD car so if you have extreme winters it's not advised to use them on a RWD car.

Ike