I was explaining the flooding issue to a co-worker. After I completed the explanation of what it was, he came unglued. He thought it was a terrible flaw with the vehicle. To me it just wasn’t that big of a deal. But as I thought back on my buying experience and some of the posts I’ve read at members anger over this issue, I came up with the question posted here.

As I thought back on my experience, my answer was no. I test drove 2 “8”’s at separate dealerships. Neither mentioned the issue at any point in the process. But for me, it wasn’t a big deal because I had read about here having taken the time to research here before my purchase. But I could see where someone that didn’t know and got “bit’ by it would be ticked off.

So what was your experience on this issue?

my salesman never mentioned it.

Mine told me about the issue. I didn't think it was a big deal, and I still don't. Did you tell your coworker that even if you forget to let the engine heat up, it may still start without any worries. I know I have forgotten to let the engine warm up several times, and I still haven't flooded the engine. It's not like the engine floods EVERY time you kill the engine when it's cold.

No, no mention, but then, there are often little things like this in most cars, and the salesmen never mention them. And don't forget, the dealers really aren't that familiar with rotaries in general any more. I read my manual as soon as I got the car, so I knew not to stop and start it cold. But I know a few members have had it flood.

*of course, I've just invoked Murphy's Law, so watch me flood it this afternoon when I get home*

I think you heard of it here first, right Elara?

I seem to recall that before the first 8's got to USA we were thinking that the renesis had that "problem" fixed. I know I was disapointed when the flooding stories started coming in. At first, I actually thought it wasn't the real thing. Evidently, it is though...

Yes. I purchased in October and had a pretty knowledgeable fleet manager / salesman who was also an RX-8 wannabe. He showed me the Emergency Starting: Starting a Flooded Engine procedure on page 7-20 of the manual but didn't make it sound like a big deal.

I was told that I should always run the car for at least five minutes, but I was never given a good explanation as to why.

they never mentioned it, nor do I think they need to. Did your salesman mentioned if you leave your lights on all night, the battery will drain?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
they never mentioned it, nor do I think they need to. Did your salesman mentioned if you leave your lights on all night, the battery will drain?

I disagree on that comparison.

The flooding is a problem specific to the rotary engine. Many RX-8 buyers will not have had a rotary engine before.

It should be mentioned by the sales person, at least after you bought it.

My dealer told me - as I took off in my brand new RX-8 - that I need to check the oil more frequently than in a cylinder engine.
He didn't mention the flooding problem.

And no, he didn't mention to turn off the lights either :-)

-Peter

My salesman told me to always rev the engine to 5000 rpms before shutting it off. He didn't say why. Thanks to this forum, I've been able to take what he said with what I've read, and worked out the real situation.

My salesman told me to let the car warm up for 5 minutes, then rev it up to 4000 rpm for 10 seconds before shutting the car off when cold. I don't remember if he said exactly why, just that it was an important procedure with this car.

flooding restart procedure?
What is it?

I never had to shut the car when it is cold so... I will rev the car to 5000k everytime I saw someone in the car park anyway! :)

takahashi -

Duh! I shouldn't have said flooding restart procedure. I was referring to the Emergency Starting: Starting a Flooded Engine section on page 7-20 of the owners manual but I was too lazy to go look it up.

no he didnt
he tried to tell me the nav played DVD's

On my test drive, the sales guy claimed he hadn't heard of the issue - even after I mentioned that my 1986 RX-7 has the same issue.

My salesman said nothing about the flooding issue. I doubt he knew about it tho. I'm not clear how big an issue it really is. I'd love for Mazda to do some cold start/stop testing of the cars to get a better idea how likely it is to flood if we shut down the car cold. If it is a significant problem - maybe they should find a fix for it.

I've heard forum members mention here that some of the dealers were flooding the cars as they arrived off the truck. If the dealers experienced that problem I think they should take it seriously and let new 8 owners know about the issue.

i have never had that problem in my turbo II, but i am gald you guys have brought this issue to my attention. and yes rotary motors need more care than piston motors, but if you take the time to maintain them, you will not have problems

fluids need to be checked regularly, and oil should be changed every 1,500 miles

Originally posted by BLACKWOLF
fluids need to be checked regularly, and oil should be changed every 1,500 miles

Where the heck did you get that the oil needed to be changed every 1500 miles?

This is really interesting. Just yesterday, as I was getting my hair cut, I was told (by the lady cutting my hair) that a co-worker of hers had recently had her new RX-8 in the shop for a "flooding" problem. I've seen hers... she has had it since the end of Summer. I've never experienced anything like this with mine, but I've only had my RX a little over a month.

I didn't think that flooding was possible with newer, fuel-injected cars. I guess this woman was told by her dealer that she wasn't driving it hard enough. -She basically drives it about two miles to work on a 35-mph road. That's it! What a waste of a great car!

So, can someone clarify this for me? How can the car "flood," or is this really about carbon build-up?

For what it's worth, the dealer told me when I ordered my car that I should never start the car, then shut it down. He said to always let it warm up. He just said that the rotary engine likes it that way, and that I could have problems if I didn't. Is this the flooding thing?

"Flooding" problem: the Answer-
Ok, now I'll answer my own post. After reading the discussion about the flooding issue, I called the service manager at Park Mazda in Akron, Ohio. The answer was explained well. YES, this problem is the result of starting the engine, then shutting it off before it's warm... Also, short trip driving (down to the store, and back) will also cause this. The word "flooding" was also used by her, because unburned fuel can be left in the engine (presumably the combustion chamber).

However, the problem is fouled spark plugs. That's it. Unfortunately, according to the service manager, these new spark plugs can NOT be cleaned. They must be replaced. FYI.

Originally posted by Renesis2004


For what it's worth, the dealer told me when I ordered my car that I should never start the car, then shut it down. He said to always let it warm up. He just said that the rotary engine likes it that way, and that I could have problems if I didn't. Is this the flooding thing?

My understanding - Yep.

It would also apply to the other person you know. It isn't that she's not drigin it hard enough, it's that she isn't driving it long enough. She would need to wait after she arrived at work for the engine to warm before turnning it off.

Again, this isn't an issue for me because I read about it on the board before I purchase. I knew I would have to work arond this issue.

Thanks for all the feedback.

The saleman told me to make sure you read the owner's manual... Does that count???

Mine told me to always let it warm up for 5 minutes before shutting it down. Said something like "That is just the way rotary engines work."

Never specifically said the word flooding, and didn't really explain WHY you had to let it warm up.

But then again I didn't ask (cuz I already knew), so I consider that sufficent warning.

My dealer never mentioned it. It doesn't seem like a big deal until it happens to you and you have to watch them tow it away. For me that was this morning. I pulled it out of my garage to wash it, put it back in after I was done, and then tried to start it to no avail not an hour later. What a pain.

Nope, mine didn't either but I found this place before I bought the 8 so I'm fully aware of the precautions that need to be taken.

I just took delivery of my Rx8 today. This was part of a written check list he made me sign.

My salesman was a "senior salesman" with supposedly 7 years Mazda experience. He knew this was my first rotary. He did tell me about checking the oil but nothing at all about making sure the engine warmed up before cutting it off. Fortunately I learned about it here before I had a problem.

Originally posted by supa-gee
The saleman told me to make sure you read the owner's manual... Does that count???
It's not even in the owners manual - just the "quick start" booklet.

He said he has never heard of the problem but did give the familiar "rotaries need to be warmed up" speech.

Please clarify - I have seen several posts saying to rev the engine to 3-5 K before shutting off the (warm) engine.

Is this "rev the engine to 3-5 K and then, after the engine has returned to about 1K (with your foot OFF the accelerator) and settles back to idle THEN shut the engine down/turn off ignition? (versus shutting down with foot on accelerator/at 3-5 K).

What am I missing here? Am I making this too complicated?
Thanks in advance !

My salesman called me today after getting negative feedback from the Mazda telephone survey. He told me he usually includes the cold engine instruction in his post-sales briefing, but must have overlooked it with me. He told me that in their tech training they were not told of a flooding problem - only that it would foul the plugs if someone REPEATEDLY shut down an engine without warming it up. He said he has sold over 40 RX8's and had not heard of any of his customers flooding their engines, but this dealership is in Ft. Lauderdale where it is less likely due to the warmer weather.

I am not so sure I blame the salesman - don't think he intentionally tried to mislead me. If this problem is as real as it seems to be, I think Mazda is to blame for keeping their "dirty little secret" hidden instead of making it clear to their customers how important it is not to cold shutdown. It's a great car and such a shame that it's going to have a reputation for engine problems for this one drawback.

I just spoke with the tech at the Mazda dealer about this issue last week. He has been extremely well trained on the RX-8, and I completely trust his judgment. He explained the fuel-fouling thing very well to me, and the main problem is that the rotary engine doesn't like the scenario where someone starts the car, backs it out of the garage, then shuts down. It allows unburned fuel to build up in the chamber (or whatever it's called in these engines). That's it. You just have to let it warm up. He said nothing at all about having to rev the engine. I'll try to call and ask, but I truly doubt that this is necessary. All he said is that the engine should be warmed up. Period.
-Dave

Originally posted by Renesis2004
I just spoke with the tech at the Mazda dealer about this issue last week. He has been extremely well trained on the RX-8, and I completely trust his judgment. He explained the fuel-fouling thing very well to me...

Thanks, Renesis, for that research. Could you ask about the info posted earlier that fouled plugs can't be cleaned, just replaced?

By the way, my salesman demonstrated cold shut down on a test drive and mentioned it is what you have to do or else. I can't remember if he said "flooding", and I know he didn't say "or it won't start and you'll have to tow it". But he was clear about the need for the 8 to be run this way and was voluntarily educating me about the problem PRIOR to any talk of purchase. I'd mention his name for being such a straight-up guy, but I don't want to get him fired for honesty:)

You're welcome. This is obviously an important issue, but it seems that some folks are freaking out over some info that just might be myth or hearsay. I've tried to get accurate information straight from a Mazda tech who really knows his stuff on this model.
-About the plugs: I will ask Brad (the tech) as soon as he returns my call. In the mean time, I can tell you that when the service manager had explained the situation to me (and she was also very well versed on the subject), she just told me that this is a new type of spark plug that can't be cleaned. I didn't ask why, however. I'll see if I can find that out, too.
-Dave

You're right. Important, but for me not a deal-breaker even after reading the forum, even the post of worst-case incidents. I am going into this one with open eyes. I am still going to purchase an 8. I'll just keep up my membership in AAA. Or start one in AA :D, but I'm not ready to call it off over flooding. What we need is accurate information to make informed decisions, and again, thank you for pursuing just that.

Perhaps the next poll we need to post is: for those who have had flooding, are they sorry to have bought the RX-8? Or just unhappy that it flooded...

Ok, folks... here it is, right from the horse's mouth. I'll give you his explanations about the fuel fouling (or "flooding" as some call it), the statements about revving the engine at higher RPMs before shut down, and to what degree you can clean the spark plugs. His answers were excellent: very thorough. This guy is great-- he spent plenty of time with me just so I could share this with the forum. Oh, and I agree... this isn't a deal-breaker. I would only suggest that Mazda needs to address this in the owner's manual and the little "quick start" guide.

He stressed several times a point you need to remember as you read this... the new Renesis engine is different from previous generations. The biggest factors affecting these answers are that it's now a SIDE-port engine, and, of course, that it's not carbureted like early engines were. OK, here goes.--

Fuel Fouling-
Fuel fouling of the spark plugs tends to occur if the engine is shut down within one minute of startup. Why? -This engine has an air injection system which cleans out any fuel which collects in the bottom of the intake ports. Remember- this is a side-port engine. OK, so What happens if you shut it off within that first minute? The air injection doesn't have a chance to adequately clean out the fuel which has collected in those intakes which are now on the side of the engine.
Remedy: At LEAST let it run for one minute. It's best, however, to just let it warm up to where you're getting a little heat out of the heater (or can see the needle move a little on the Temp. gauge).

Revving The Englne Just Before Shut Down-
NOT a good idea. This comes from the older generation engines, especially those that were carbureted. Brad said that, on the Renesis version, it's actually better to let it idle a little (he said that a minute is best), then shut off. This engine is different.

Cleaning The Spark Plugs?
These are iridium-tipped plugs (spelling?). Actually, you CAN blow them off with air, but THAT'S ALL. Any other scraping will scrub off the iridium, and it won't fire right.

Ok, folks. That's all I have to offer, and I can't verify any of it. However, a trained Mazda tech's word is good enough for me.
-Dave

Sounds like good information is getting out to the techs slowly, but at last. Mazda needs to get its act together! Giving the owners the RIGHT information will save us and them major problems.

Dave, you are worth your weight in iridium...

"The word of a trained Mazda tech"? They are nothing more then parts replacement specialists.

Originally posted by sniper
"The word of a trained Mazda tech"? They are nothing more then parts replacement specialists.

Someone have some anger trying to get out?

-Sorry 'bout that Sniper. He was just trying to help, and I felt pretty good about his qualifications. If anybody knows of someone with more expertise, I'd be glad to hear from them. In the mean time, the tech's word is ok for me.

My saleswoman never mentioned it. She did say that when I start it up I needed to rev it at 3k for 10-15 seconds before taking off thought!

Kind figures though. She told me that the car had 210 HP and a six-disc changer which turned out to be lies. So I ripped her a new a** h*** on the survey Mazda sent me!

;)

Originally posted by sniper
"The word of a trained Mazda tech"? They are nothing more then parts replacement specialists.

I wish I could disagree with you, but that is a true statement based on my experience.
I have yet to meet a "factory" mechanic that is honest and/or competent.

Hi-
I guess I'm really lucky where the tech at my dealership is concerned. After I'd had my RX8 a week or two, I took it in to have a few things checked on it, just to see if they were the nature of the car or not. For what it's worth, nothing was wrong, but I won't go into that right now.

The really good thing is that Brad (the tech) was summoned by the Service Manager. He spent about 15 minutes with me, telling me everything he checked and how he did it. He explained some of the nuances of the car and the Renesis engine. Since I understand mechanical stuff to some degree, he was very thorough and detailed. In other words, he didn't talk down to me at all.

I've dealt with a lot of new car dealers' service departments over the years. When you pick up the car, most of them have you get your keys from someone (often a cashier) who had no idea what was done or why it was done.

Park Mazda in Akron has a fantastic reputation, and now I can see why. They do an awesome job with customer service.

My salesman mentioned it to me in passing during the pre-delivery process. Which counts as a "yes" for me. Didn't get into it in much depth, but then, I had just corrected him on the car's information for about the fourth time, so he may have been a little gun-shy.

On the topic of spark plug fouling, the supposed iridium coating may change things, but for years, NGK Spark Plugs was a client of my company and they used to tell me that in general, plugs were good for about 40k miles of use if you periodically cleaned them.

Hearing the dealer tech say that about a minute of warmup is the minimum for the 8 kind of goes to a theory I've been harboring about the whole flooding issue.

My 2gen started having some flooding problems after a hot shutdown because leaky injectors were letting some fuel into the ports. A simple pressure check valve from Mazdatrix solved that problem once and for all.

My 3gen had never flooded on me in almost 91k miles of use. But one of my employees moved it about 50 feet the other day and when I went to start it last night.. you guessed it, flooded. It re-started in a couple of minutes by cranking it several times with the pedal floored, then cranking it with the pedal released. But here's my theory:

The 3gen has a ancillary system called something like the "accelerated warm-up system". It's what keeps the idle at an elevated level if you start your engine and don't move the car immediately.

I'll bet the 8 has the very same system, and that it's there for the very same reason: to avoid cold-shutdown flooding. And I'd also bet that if owners are observant enough to wait until the engine management system lets the idle drop to the normal level, we'll avoid this dreaded flooding problem altogether.

As it turned out, I asked each and every one of them about the issue before they even had a chance to raise it. I wanted to hear their take. Sadly, there was no consensus response from the sales folks.

For now, I going with a synthesized version between the Quick Tips Guide, the Driver's Guide pamphlet, the Manual, this Forum, and having a Wicca group in Salem cast a spell to ward off the fouling spirits.

Oranje

No one mentioned the flooding issue when I first visted the dealer in November 2003. Even though we spent more than an hour going over the various features and unique qualities of the 8.

However, I went in today to put down a deposit (so they'll ship the car in as they don't have one in the configuration I want on the lot) and we spent some time chatting again about the uniqueness of the 8. This time, the flooding issue was raised. He mentioned the following in relation to flooding:

1. Rotary engines are "more susceptible" to flooding. Make sure you fully warm up the engine before shutting down. Be careful when handing your car off to someone (valet parking, detailing service, etc) as they will most likely flood it.

2. You'll get this book (he waves a slim but colorful pamphlet) and you should read it carefully.

3. There is an emergency start proceedure in your owner's manual. It may or may not work. If it does work, you'll see black smoke coming out of the tailpipe and it will run rough for a "little while". Run it until it is running smooth with no black smoke.

He also intimated that flooding would cost me as the "plugs are fouled and must be replaced and they're not cheap."

Thanks to RX8Club.com, I'm more informed than I was in November when I first looked.

I had a hat trick, I asked three salesmen at one dealership who all replied with such a similar response, I was wondering if it was rehearsed:

"Flooding, what flooding, I haven't heard anything about flooding."

My sales person did not mention it. I've had 2 flooding incidents. I learned my lesson after the first one, but even though the car was warm when I shut it off, it still flooded. The dealer had to change the spark plugs and they said they put hotter ones in.

I think this is a big deal. I've never owned a rotary engine before and had I known that this was part of the package, I would have thought much harder about the purchase. However, I was never given the opportunity since I wasn't "educated" by the dealer (they did mention checking the oil more frequently).

As much mention as this is getting on this and other sites is also evidence that many of us think this is a big deal. I've contacted Mazda USA and they said that if they get enough complaints from owners and through dealer service they will look into the issue, if they aren't already. I encourage everyone to call Mazda USA. I had to ask to speak to a supervisor because the first rep didn't seem to have a clue and was very uninterested in the issue.

This is also popping up on the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration complaint data base (they are the people who initiate recalls). I logged a complaint with them on-line and it was very easy.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my car. But this is more than a mere annoyance--it's a major design flaw. It's also a safety issue--I need to know I'm not going to get stranded somewhere in fridgid weather.

Sorry for the long rant. . .

Anybody ever think of installing a turbo timer on their RX-8? Even if the 8 needs a 'warm up' period instead of a 'cool down' period, a turbo timer would keep the engine running for a couple minutes avoiding the flooding problem.

---A

Originally posted by Q121825
No one mentioned the flooding issue when I first visted the dealer in November 2003. Even though we spent more than an hour going over the various features and unique qualities of the 8.

However, I went in today to put down a deposit (so they'll ship the car in as they don't have one in the configuration I want on the lot) and we spent some time chatting again about the uniqueness of the 8. This time, the flooding issue was raised. He mentioned the following in relation to flooding:

1. Rotary engines are "more susceptible" to flooding. Make sure you fully warm up the engine before shutting down. Be careful when handing your car off to someone (valet parking, detailing service, etc) as they will most likely flood it.

2. You'll get this book (he waves a slim but colorful pamphlet) and you should read it carefully.

3. There is an emergency start proceedure in your owner's manual. It may or may not work. If it does work, you'll see black smoke coming out of the tailpipe and it will run rough for a "little while". Run it until it is running smooth with no black smoke.

He also intimated that flooding would cost me as the "plugs are fouled and must be replaced and they're not cheap."

Thanks to RX8Club.com, I'm more informed than I was in November when I first looked.





You guys are out of your mind if you think a salesperson is going to say "oh by the way, the engine floods", while they're trying to sell you a car. They're trying to sell you a car, not talk you out of it. Logically, though, they should say something after you've already bought the car, while they're delivering it and going through the owner's manual. As for November 2003, it's possible that the issue hadn't even come to their attention yet. But either way, they're obviously not going to highlight the negatives when they're trying to sell you a car (though they should mention the specific potential flooding conditions once you've actually bought the car). And realistically, this isn't a big problem anyway, it just requires some care on the part of the driver. This is, after all, a performance vehicle, it's reasonable to expect some small degree of mechanical savvy on the part of owners.