We need to somehow put together a matrix of all the exhausts coming on to the market and rate them against certain criteria ie price, hp gains, sound (non rice!) and quality etc.

Anybody got any ideas how we can get all the information together?!

So far we have:

Borla
B&B
Greddy
HKS
JIC
Racing Beat (almost ready)

....and I'm sure I've missed some.:mad:

spintech
magnaflow is soon

good idea though

yes i HATE having to compare sounds looking all over the forum

Magnaflows, I have them but they sound EXACTLY like the B&B.

Originally posted by emack
We need to somehow put together a matrix of all the exhausts coming on to the market and rate them against certain criteria ie price, hp gains, sound (non rice!) and quality etc. We also ought to establish a standard method for recording the sound clips. Inside the car, outside the car, how far away from the car if outside? Load (car would be in motion) or no load? I know how I did mine, but nobody else has said how they did theirs.

How about loudness? Get a standard test that uses a simple Radio Shack spl meter at a set distance straight behind the car. Do one test at idle and another at a different rpm. Obviously it would be louder if the car were under a load but any differences is db between each system would at least be evident.

You guys worry way to much about the sound of the exhaust. There is not going to be much of a difference between any of the exhausts listed. They all have similar qualities. The big difference in sound will be when you add a midpipe or remove the cat.

Jason

Some of those systems are very different from each other. So what you are saying is that if I were to install a fully baffled quiet muffler on one car and a pair of straight through unbaffled loud mufflers on another car, the sound won't be much different? Um, you need to go rethink that one a little bit. One muffler may sound more raspy then others. I've had so many different muffler combinations on my RX-7's through the years and the differences are night and day. This applies to any engine. If every aftermarket company comes out with the exact same product with a different name stamped on it, then your statement would be true.

Most of these exhaust companies are going for more flow. True there will be a difference in sound depending on the mufflers used but not enough that you are going to be able tell much of a difference. I think most peoples concerns on here is that its not to loud, which non of them are until you remove the cat.
I have heard every exhaust system on an RX-7 and I cant tell much of a difference between them unless they are running a midpipe.

Jason

You've heard every exhaust system on an Rx-7???...hmmm...man i wish I had....

Sound is too freaking subjective, and db tests don't tell all. So I don't think that'd be of any use.

BUT... there should be a sticky thread on Exhausts, and the only info posted there should be Type, dyno numbers and sound impressions.

NO posts like, "This exhaust rocks!" Just legit dyno charts for each exhaust.

Does that seem like a good idea?

See this board for an example...

http://www.is300.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=2

Just look at all the stickies there, why they are there and the info in them.

That way people wouldn't have to search up and down (the sticky part), plus it would be a no-nonsense post with just info about the exhausts and dyno numbers... no bickering or anything.

BUT... it would require a moderator to manage it to make sure it doesn't drift off mission.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by racerdave
BUT... there should be a sticky thread on Exhausts, and the only info posted there should be Type, dyno numbers and sound impressions.

NO posts like, "This exhaust rocks!" Just legit dyno charts for each exhaust.

Thoughts?

Brilliant idea. We're already seeing lots of reviews here for intakes and exhausts, and (for example) not a single customer review of an intake has a dyno chart. They're all just "This intake sounds awesome, and my butt dyno tells me it must be faster". Those are not much help, frankly.

Regards,
Gordon

My midpipe will be here shortly (right Jason?). I'll record some sound bytes stock and then with the midpipe, and then when the racing beat exhaust comes in, i'll record it with the stock muffy and then the racing beat.

Slavearm

the racing beat exhuast isn't avaiable yet is it ?

I wanna get either Greddy or Borla. It would be nice if there's a dyno result for Greddy. :)

Originally posted by racerdave
Sound is too freaking subjective, and db tests don't tell all. So I don't think that'd be of any use.

BUT... there should be a sticky thread on Exhausts, and the only info posted there should be Type, dyno numbers and sound impressions.

Good idea, and I would add that it ought to be two stickies: one for street-lagal exhausts and another for off-road exhausts. It's silly to compare a catless system with a cat-back system.

Ok, so if someone puts this all together in a thread, we'll see if we can get it stickied. Any volunteers?

Originally posted by Omicron
Ok, so if someone puts this all together in a thread, we'll see if we can get it stickied. Any volunteers? E-mail me at bob@bobclevenger.com and tell me what I'd have to do?

I will make it a sticky as soon as we get the info.

Jason

the B&B exhaust makes more power than the Borla...check the dyno sheets elsewhere on this forum...if im not mistaken the borla pipes (not exhaust tips) are around 3 inches or so?? and the B&B pipes are 2 1/2...thats where the loss in power is made...

more flow equals more noise period. regardless of what the noise is the big ass tips in the back will still make my car an even bigger target for the damn riceroni police.

the ricearoni police suck and they are everywhere

'ricearoni police' - that is hilarious!

Xdeed - Question for you - because the pipes are bigger on the borla than on the b&b there is less power in the borla exhaust?

Does this have to do with b&b allowing more back pressure due to the smaller pipe?

Originally posted by bobclevenger
E-mail me at bob@bobclevenger.com and tell me what I'd have to do? Email is on the way, Bob.

Originally posted by success07
Xdeed - Question for you - because the pipes are bigger on the borla than on the b&b there is less power in the borla exhaust?

Does this have to do with b&b allowing more back pressure due to the smaller pipe? Probably has to do with the B&B keeping the velocity of the exhaust gases high enough so that their inertia helps pull them out of the engine -- a scavenging effect.

XDEED "the B&B exhaust makes more power than the Borla...check the dyno sheets elsewhere on this forum...if im not mistaken the borla pipes (not exhaust tips) are around 3 inches or so?? and the B&B pipes are 2 1/2...thats where the loss in power is made..."

You totally contradicted yourself on your post!

The fact that a smaller pipe may or may not make more power does not necessarily mean anything for this application. I'm not saying it does nothing, just not much here. The internal differences in mufflers will be the deciding factor. If you have the stock manifold and the stock cat on the car, you already have the neccesary sizing here to determine potential power. Making a pipe larger after these won't do much. Your exhaust manifold has already collected the pipes and is already utilizing the scavenging effect. It's just backpressure from here on out. You could just stick a tailpipe to the back of the cat and be fine. Now if you were using a new header and a free flowing cat or none at all and the primary piping were 3", then you would need to keep this size and no smaller (for the sake of this discussion) out through the muffler. If we could see a cutaway of both mufflers or put them both on a flow bench, we'd see why one has more power than the other.

Regardless of if one gives you 8-10 hp and the other gives you 12-15, you will not FEEL the difference. If we are just dyno racng then I'd see an issue. Where is the power gain in the powerband?

FWIW: When Borla posted the dyno sheet on here a couple of months back, he said that they were going to market it around an 8 hp gain since this was about the average over the usable powerband even though it recorded a peak gain of 15 at one point in the graph. This point was not a max gain at the peak power rpm though. When you look at dynos, learn to understand what you see. Peak horsepower sells product, average horsepower wins races and is faster. Most manufacturers rate their products at maximum gain for the above reason. It sells product.

Originally posted by rotarygod
Peak horsepower sells product, average horsepower wins races and is faster.

Werd

:D

That's dead-on.

Originally posted by tommy12g
XDEED "the B&B exhaust makes more power than the Borla...check the dyno sheets elsewhere on this forum...if im not mistaken the borla pipes (not exhaust tips) are around 3 inches or so?? and the B&B pipes are 2 1/2...thats where the loss in power is made..."

You totally contradicted yourself on your post!

i meant to say thats where the borla loses power.... sorry teacher please don't fail me...and please don't make this a "Proper english forum".... bite me...

Here is a visual comparison for most of the exhausts available for the 8 as of now. I've only included pics of exhausts that are actually on the car. it would be great to link sound clips to each pic so that you could see and hear the difference between them.

Nice investigative work stang, any chance you got a bigger picture? I think someone started an exhaust note thread. Sounds like a good opportunity to combine the two.

its kinda small, can u make the pics better, the best looking is the
B & B exhaust, if i had an rx8 and i were to buy an exhaust it would be the B & b exhaust

I tried to post the original file but it was too big. this one is a bit bigger.

Originally posted by stangkilla
I tried to post the original file but it was too big. this one is a bit bigger. Niiiiiice job, Stangkilla!

BobClevenger, can you incorporate these pics into your summary exhaust thread?

I would buy based on these factors in order of importence:
Performance
Looks = I like Borla and B&B (hard to get a read on the JIC given the angle).
Note
Price
The only problem, I just have not seen anything concrete/realible about performance with any exhaust or intake mods. The only credible quote I've heard is from CZ who believes he gets additional power on the Borla used with his Stage 1.

I've seen the B&B exhaust on vivids car in person at a cali car show and it looks great

Don't forget the Hymee Special, just because we can't get it doesn't mean it's not primo.....
.
.
.
doc

why cant we get that special
looks good

good job stang

So far sound and looks id have to agree with the others a go with B&B.

Cant be too hasty though gotta wait for Racing Beat too.

It sounds kind of weird but i feel that Vivid Racing are true enthusiasts. That is one hard quality to find. I respect that very much as it is just so rare to find. It also seems that they have been treating their customers very well.

The note of the B&B sounds good The looks is great and although I havent seen others dynos I tend to believe the results they posted on the exhaust too.

I dont see how you guys go based off looks. Most of those pics are shot at different angles and lighting. If they were all shot at the same angle with the same lighting they would all look the same except the Corksport and Greddy. Difference being the size and shape of the tips.
I would go based off:
1: Sound
2: Horsepower. Although if one yields 5 HP more than another you wont be able to tell the difference on the street.

Jason

Originally posted by Omicron
Niiiiiice job, Stangkilla!

BobClevenger, can you incorporate these pics into your summary exhaust thread? I have a PM off to stangkilla. I'd like to get his photos as separate shots and then put each one beside the sound/video clip link.

Nice to see all these at once, but all that really shows on the road are the tips, and those can be changed to suit your own tastes. Pick your exhaust for what's most important to you, but keep in mind that tips can be changed. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these systems (even though I chose a different one).

Is Racing Beat ever going to get finished?I got bout 2500 burning a hole in my pocket waiting on exhaust intake and puter mods.After the maniac post i got puter mods down i think but still waiting to see what RB has up the ol' sleeve.

You can see the canisters on our exhaust. Is that a plus or you prefer it to look like the rest?

Chuck Huang

chuck, do you have a pic of the install so we can comment on the look. IMO being different is a large part of what the 8 is so having the canisters show may be the way to go? Also, the rotor shaped tips would definitely be unique. I would point the a rotor tip down as apposed to up. that way there would be a 3 rotor accent across the back in chrome. Do you have an idea of when the equipment would be ready? I was about to purchase the HKS Legamax until I saw this thread. How long will we have to wait?

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
You can see the canisters on our exhaust. Is that a plus or you prefer it to look like the rest?

Chuck Huang


just my thoughts

seeing the canisters looks sweet

Originally posted by Doctorr
Don't forget the Hymee Special, just because we can't get it doesn't mean it's not primo.....
.
.
.
doc

Thanks doc!

Wildcard is really happy with it!

Originally posted by mikeb
why cant we get that special
looks good

Of course we can get it. Send me a PM. And it can be as custom/special as anyone wants!

Cheers,
Hymee.

Getting exhaust in two days and just seeing what everyone else would like.

BTW- these are the ones i have narrowed it down too



*** If you choose other list wich one you vote on

Maily between Rx8store and B&B (for me any way)

I guess we all know the tornado and spiralmax gadgets for the intake actually restrict H.P., but has anyone ever checked the spiralmax units that you install in the tailpipes, they claim that it gives you a vacuum effect and actually helps pull more exhaust out. has anyone ever checked into this? Does it restrict exhaust flow by blocking the pipe or does the vacuum effect overcome this?

Originally posted by bobclevenger
Nice to see all these at once, but all that really shows on the road are the tips, and those can be changed to suit your own tastes. Pick your exhaust for what's most important to you, but keep in mind that tips can be changed. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these systems (even though I chose a different one).

Its true that all this shows are the tips, but that is what most people see on the road. No-one is under the car looking at the rest....usually.
My views on the matter are the same. Performance & sound are paramount, but the visual imact is also a factor. Ive seen alot of replacement tips and would be more comfortable sticking with the tips that the exhaust came with.

Originally posted by stangkilla
Its true that all this shows are the tips, but that is what most people see on the road. No-one is under the car looking at the rest....usually. That was my point exactly. You just said it better!My views on the matter are the same. Performance & sound are paramount, but the visual imact is also a factor. Ive seen alot of replacement tips and would be more comfortable sticking with the tips that the exhaust came with. Yep. You have a point there. But I just wanted to point out that if someone finds a system that they like except for the tips, that the tips aren't hard to have changed and there are lots of good ones out there.