My engine is blown I have other threads of the details. However Mazda is stating that they will not cover my engine replacement because I have synthetic oil.. I need to get all my ducks in a row to fight this can anyone help me please

3 days beford my engine blow I to the tech advice and changed my oil back to the regular oil

does it say in any warranty paperwork that mazda has ever given you not to use synthetic oil? if so then you warranty is void. if not then its not. Read the Magnussen - Moss act and if you dont understand it find a lawyer that can explain it to you.

yep change it back.

My engine is blown I have other threads of the details. However Mazda is stating that they will not cover my engine replacement because I have synthetic oil.. I need to get all my ducks in a row to fight this can anyone help me please


Your dealership is saying they wont cover the replacement and it's bullshit unless you're not telling us something important, like letting the engine run out of oil entirely.

I would call up MANO and explain to them the situation, and that you got your oil changes at a quicklube place and always got the "super synthetic" package because they said it was best for your car there, and now the mean old dealership is saying they wont cover your engine because you didn't take it to them to get the "right" oil.

Like I said in the PM, why do they sell this in Mazda Japan if like they said in the DVD that "we are not sure if Synthetic is good for Rotary engine"

http://www.mazda.co.jp/service/parts/oil/synthe_renesis.html

It has SAE/API rating, Its 0w30. Its PAO based Full Synthetic Oil. and Of course its from Mazda.

Ask them why does this product exist in Mazda Japan ?

oh because North America based RX-8's ECU programming did not calibrated for Synthetic oil? My Assssss !

I know the newer version of owner's manual has mention something about they do not RECOMMEND Synthetic oil. but RECOMMEND does not mean NO. You have to remember that. and as always, if they dont recommend Synthetic Oil, Why are they selling some Synthetic oil with RX-8 on it ?

This is EXACTLY why I am still not quite sure if I should ever recommend anybody to buy a Mazda.

and Mazda wonder why Toyota has more business than them.

actually the reason for that is Mazda Japan tested that oil. In Europe for instance they actually put out an addendum saying not to use synthetic and the reason is because they cant/dont/wont test all the various types to make sure they are okay.

in Australia they had the same thing but crazily the oil that the Mazda dealers were bringing in through Mazda Australia was a synthetic .

The video and newer owners manual suggests it but as far as i know in the USA there is no mandatory DONT USE SYTH paper because then the MAG-MOSS would kick in and they would HAVE TO PROVIDE the oil

No Mazda is saying that because I had synthetic oil in my car that I voided my warrenty.. I never would let my engime run out of oil. I think the switch from synthetic back to reg oil may have killed it....However I have been having problem with my 8 for about 2 months now saying that the engine isnt running right.. In the manual all it states is must use SAE 5w-20 nothing about reg oil or synthetic. DO I HAVE A CASE???

Your dealership is saying they wont cover the replacement and it's bullshit unless you're not telling us something important, like letting the engine run out of oil entirely.

Or that he had aftermarket exhaust and a Canzoomer module...? Those I think, would be grounds for warranty denial.

Synthetic oil, imo, is not grounds and would not hold up in court unless there is specific language in the owner's manual and/or placard in the car. Unfortunately, the dealership is free to make up any BS excuse they want to deny your warranty. Once that happens, it's on your record, and MNAO often appears spineless when it comes to reversing bad calls by dealership service departments. So you're back to "not hold up in court".

But really, if he had the other aftermarket components as some of his posts suggest, his chances are probably slim.

No Mazda is saying that because I had synthetic oil in my car that I voided my warrenty.. I never would let my engime run out of oil. I think the switch from synthetic back to reg oil may have killed it....However I have been having problem with my 8 for about 2 months now saying that the engine isnt running right.. In the manual all it states is must use SAE 5w-20 nothing about reg oil or synthetic. DO I HAVE A CASE???

Re-read the manual. Afaik, it does not say you MUST use 5w-20. For my 2004, the only requirement is for the oil to meet API service level SL.

As far as oil issue, certainly you have a case. Press it with MNAO and if they balk, a lawyer might be better able to explain their error to them. Or maybe Anthony Soprano.

No Mazda is saying that because I had synthetic oil in my car that I voided my warrenty.. I never would let my engime run out of oil. I think the switch from synthetic back to reg oil may have killed it....However I have been having problem with my 8 for about 2 months now saying that the engine isnt running right.. In the manual all it states is must use SAE 5w-20 nothing about reg oil or synthetic. DO I HAVE A CASE???

Yes you have a case, go to the dealer and ask him where the Fup it says you cant use synthetic

How did the dealer know that you were running synthetic oil?

Also, I read one of your other threads. If the dealer knew and documented that you had a piggyback ECU on at any time, you are definitely out of luck for any engine warranty (unless an oil line broke or something else visually obvious). But you knew this when you plugged in your Canzoomer, didn't you? Why are you now looking for a freebie?

you had a piggyback on ? well that changes things doesn't it?

Or that he had aftermarket exhaust and a Canzoomer module...? Those I think, would be grounds for warranty denial.

Synthetic oil, imo, is not grounds and would not hold up in court unless there is specific language in the owner's manual and/or placard in the car. Unfortunately, the dealership is free to make up any BS excuse they want to deny your warranty. Once that happens, it's on your record, and MNAO often appears spineless when it comes to reversing bad calls by dealership service departments. So you're back to "not hold up in court".

But really, if he had the other aftermarket components as some of his posts suggest, his chances are probably slim.

An exhaust? no way. A canzoomer, maybe, i don't know much about them.

No Mazda is saying that because I had synthetic oil in my car that I voided my warrenty.. I never would let my engime run out of oil. I think the switch from synthetic back to reg oil may have killed it....However I have been having problem with my 8 for about 2 months now saying that the engine isnt running right.. In the manual all it states is must use SAE 5w-20 nothing about reg oil or synthetic. DO I HAVE A CASE???

5w20 is "recommend" not "required". Those 2 "quoted" words have COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MEANINGS. (Make sure you point THAT out cuz u know those dealership people probably can't read or understand simple words)

IMO 5w20 is a damn joke sooner or later they will let people to use 0w10 oil as soon as they know that your engine will last long enough to make it thru the warranty period.

ALSO, I know that my 05 manual didnt say SHIT about Synthetic, the DVD that they sent said they do not RECOMMEND Synthetic because they never tested it. Notice the word RECOMMEND again.

You have a case ONLY if that is the reason that they deny your warranty.

Hang on here....

A little more searching finds this quote:
I work at a mazda dealership so I had them fix it

Hang on here....

A little more searching finds this quote:

ok ...

yeah I work for this dealership and this is how I get treated when my car when in for the oil change on friday it was stock. 1 of the dispatchers saw a tech puttin synthetic oil into my car in October then came up to me stating that Mazda will not cover synthetic oil. The dispatcher threw a hissy fit because I showed him a 2009 RX8 owners manual and it said (oil must be SAE 5w20) I then had the engine problems took off all aftermarket parts change the oil on friday back to the B.S Mazda oil 3 days later my engine blows. I called MNAO today, All that he said its whatever is in the owners manual.

I was never able to put the canzoomer on, only because I never receive the cables so I didn't wanna go off someone else's map. My exhaust was never seen at service. Once my CEL came on the first time I knew I would have 2 go back to stock so I changed everything.... I was asked if I ever had aftermarket parts on but of course I said no.. They ran a compression test my car fail so they did solution A. which is that you change plugs and wire, that I had to pay for. When I got my 8 back it ran worse then ever, long cranks to get it started. my dealership told me because its cold out it may take longer to start. then came the oil change following that was the blown motor So this bring's everyone up to date I think?? I tried to get the comp results the Service writer couldn't find them. I could see if I had a dam turbo on my car but I do and to play it safe I also bought another service contact so my car would be covered up 2 100k from J.M.A. So I what the hell is the problem!? Right?

^That really sucks.

I am astounded that your own guys would rat you out.

FWIW, my 2006 Owner's Manual says (in a box marked "Caution": "Do Not use either synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil. Otherwise engine starting performance could worsen".

Your last hope is to take the car to a different dealer. Perhaps your dealer did not document your situation in the Warranty Computer.


EDIT: If you have an aftermarket warranty, then you should be able to take the car to any licensed garage - there must be some good rotary shops local to you in NYC.

The dispatcher is like a 60 year old man that is just nasty, you would think being that he was in the army and so was I there would be that army respect...not with this douch. He's out to screw me and he even told me this exact quote he said was Bill do you have a mother? WTF does that have to do with anything Baron? yeah why? Good I'll talk to her because I hate talking with you. Im a 28 year old vet You'll Fu**ing talk to me, this is my car under my name.. No I'll talk to the owner of the dealership Bill... at this point in the conversation I lost my cool. I will probably get kick off the site if I repeat what I said but it involved me riping out his glass eye

Can someone describe exactly what is meant by "engine is blown"? What exactly failed?
(Blowinup, if you repond, please try to do so without "***" or other expletives & extraneous remarks so that it's understandable and informative)

Thanks.

this tread rocks!

wow a tech in the dealership you work in put syn oil in against your will..

wow..

fail..:)

beers :beer:

Can someone describe exactly what is meant by "engine is blown"? What exactly failed?
(Blowinup, if you repond, please try to do so without "***" or other expletives & extraneous remarks so that it's understandable and informative)

Thanks.

That's what I was wondering. What has failed? What are we referring to as "Blown"?

Paul.

his car was running poorly. including stalling at red lights. they did a vacuum/compression test as per the TSBs/Recalls and it failed

They ran a compression test my car fail

they tried to remedy the low numbers by cleaning it and changing plugs and wires

so they did solution A.


it ran very poorly after this attempt including being hard to start to which they suggested its just because of the change of season (showing a complete lack of understanding of modern fuel injection)

my dealership told me because its cold out it may take longer to start

his engine failed the vacuum/compression test again and the dealership people are saying he will have to pay for the new engine because of their knowledge that he was using a synthetic oil- they know this because it was put in there.

1 of the dispatchers saw a tech puttin synthetic oil into my car in October then came up to me stating that Mazda will not cover synthetic oil. The dispatcher threw a hissy fit because I showed him a 2009 RX8 owners manual and it said (oil must be SAE 5w20)

he needs to stop being a hot head and go up the chain.

The dispatcher is like a 60 year old man that is just nasty, you would think being that he was in the army and so was I there would be that army respect...not with this douch. He's out to screw me and he even told me this exact quote he said was Bill do you have a mother? WTF does that have to do with anything Baron? yeah why? Good I'll talk to her because I hate talking with you. Im a 28 year old vet You'll Fu**ing talk to me, this is my car under my name.. No I'll talk to the owner of the dealership Bill... at this point in the conversation I lost my cool. I will probably get kick off the site if I repeat what I said but it involved me riping out his glass eye

60 years old ? that maybe why. He probably still living in his past and forgot that things will improve over time.

Can Anybody scan a copy of the 06+ owner's manual page up about the oil ?

a Manufacture cannot say "you cannot use this because we said so", they have to have scientific proof that certain stuff will cause failure. It is to my understanding that all Synthetic oil (rather its true Group IV/V or fake like III) has past all ratings it needs.

Fine, Forget about Synthetic thing. You can't even use anything other than 5w20 ??? 5w20 is a freaking joke itself.

Thats really bullshit.

At this rate, and the way MNAO deal with things. Rotary engine will NEVER get popular. I have a feeling that Mazda going to be the next Ford. (probably being too close to Ford for too long?)

FWIW, my 2006 Owner's Manual says (in a box marked "Caution": "Do Not use either synthetic or semi-synthetic motor oil. Otherwise engine starting performance could worsen".



are there any 5w-20s that arent semi-synthetic? does it state anything in the warranty paperwork? i havent seen it said so.

are there any 5w-20s that arent semi-synthetic? does it state anything in the warranty paperwork? i havent seen it said so.

That's exactly what I mean. :rollingla

Can Anybody scan a copy of the 06+ owner's manual page up about the oil ?



yeah someone just sign up to mymazda on mazdausa and grab the newer manual please?

NYCGPS.

This (really bad quality) scan is from my Canadian Owner's Manual.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130242&stc=1&d=1229019608

are there any 5w-20s that arent semi-synthetic?


Looking at the MSDS for Castrol GTX 5W-20, it doesn't say anything about synthetic... all it says is: "Base Oil - highly Refined"

http://datasheets.bp.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/0/1F5373603474895386257362006A1F0C/$file/017193US-Lubes%20Americas-BP%20(Wayne,%20NJ%20US).pdf

thanks but the Canadians got the same warning as the Europeans. The US did not thats why we need a US manual

thanks but the Canadians got the same warning as the Europeans. The US did not thats why we need a US manual

Just checked my manual. Says the same thing as the Canadian one. Bad starting performance with synthetic. NOTHING about warranty void

dling it. hold up.

here you go.

usa 04.

beers :beer:

no 04 is no good i can get that. we need 06 or newer

oh wait doesnt the OP have a 2004? i know we havent received anything that forbids synthetic

Boom

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130248&stc=1&d=1229021969
http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130249&stc=1&d=1229021969


Thats 2006 that I just downloaded.

No word about Synthetic ?

and the 5w20 is just RECOMMENED, NOT REQUIRED. 2 Words with COMPLETELY different meaning.

This is for Canada, but I'd bet the US is about the same....

On the basic question of warranty applicability, on Pg. 14 of my warranty manual, under "Your Responsibilities - Maintenance" it says: "You are responsible for operating and maintaining your Mazda vehicle in accordance with the instructions and maintenance schedule described in your Owner's Manual"

On Page 12, under "What is Not Covered" "Damage due to Lack of Maintenance or the use of Wrong Fuel, Oil or Lubricants": ...."the use of other than the specified fuel, oil or other lubricants recommended in your Owner's Manual"

***********

This seems pretty cut and dried. If you choose to use an oil other than what is recommended, then they are stating that damage resulting therefrom is not covered under the warranty.

But we all knew that, didn't we?

Canada has a similar law to your Moss Magnussen (sp?) act, that prevents manufacturers for specifying brand names to use, but I don't think that a lawyer would get very far when the manufacturer clearly states to use (a) and you use (b) - because you just know better.

The question is whether you can prove that an oil specifically not recommended by the engine manufacturer did not contribute in some way to the engine damage... Cost of proving this in a superior court (experts, metallurgical analysis, etc. would far exceed the cost of 20 new engines). However, Mazda might allow a quiet default judgment in small claims court to save money.

^^ I think its more like

if I use something thats not API rated and my motor fuxks up. its my fault. right ?

but if I use something thats API rated with SL or better. what kind of BS they can pull ? I mean the 5w20 crap is "recommened" they never said anything like "oh use something other than 5w20 will fuxk ur motor up"

when this goes to court, BOTH side has to prove that "xxx oil is (not) the cause of failure because ... "

correct the only thing the US manual states as necessary is that it be API andSL or ILSAC rated

The question is whether you can prove that an oil specifically not recommended by the engine manufacturer did not contribute in some way to the engine damage... Cost of proving this in a superior court (experts, metallurgical analysis, etc. would far exceed the cost of 20 new engines). However, Mazda might allow a quiet default judgment in small claims court to save money.

I'd disagree. Under MM, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer. Also, even if we were to take the Canadian manual's language, Mazda clearly describes their perceived potential drawback of synthetic as worsened "engine starting performance", they do not represent anything about permanent unrecoverable engine damage. And as far as viscosity, Mazda prints RX8 manuals for mechanically identical engines that show multiple viscosities and their recommended temperature ranges, which are fairly standard. In particular, Mazda "recommends" 5W-30 for many markets. How could they possibly claim it causes damage?

Personally, I think all a plaintiff would need to do would be to submit copies of various RX-8 owners' manuals from different years and markets. The contradictions are enough to show there is no reasonable basis for warranty denial. To claim otherwise, Mazda would be handing over the key to an family-size can of whoop ass. A.k.a, class-action lawsuit.

Boom

Watch where you point those; you could put an eye out! :spank:

Hi Nubo.

I think the engine damage we are all talking about is the (particularly Apex) seals reduced sealing due to carbon buildup in the housing or under the seals. I haven't heard of many catastrophic metal failures.

I didn't say it was not possible to prove (or defend)... just that the cost of going to a 'real' court starts at about $30k and goes up from there. Class actions can cost in the million$.

It is these legal costs that form the rationale for consumer-protection legislation, like your US & our Canadian Acts.



I see from the US paperwork that the "Caution" box is not there. I'm not sure what to make of this?

My manual says quite clearly (above): "Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil".

If I use their specified oil weight and grade, Mazda agrees (and I expect them) to warranty my engine against oil-related failures. If I chose not to, then I am on my own. Simple.

Hence the reason y i run regualr and will always!!! even if they end up covering it under warranty it is a pain in the ass becasue u used synthetic

Hi Nubo.

I think the engine damage we are all talking about is the (particularly Apex) seals reduced sealing due to carbon buildup in the housing or under the seals. I haven't heard of many catastrophic metal failures.

I didn't say it was not possible to prove (or defend)... just that the cost of going to a 'real' court starts at about $30k and goes up from there. Class actions can cost in the million$.

It is these legal costs that form the rationale for consumer-protection legislation, like your US & our Canadian Acts.



I see from the US paperwork that the "Caution" box is not there. I'm not sure what to make of this?

My manual says quite clearly (above): "Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil".

If I use their specified oil weight and grade, Mazda agrees (and I expect them) to warranty my engine against oil-related failures. If I chose not to, then I am on my own. Simple.

The question is : How do they know that its the oil that caused the failure ?

Yeah u're using 5w30 (lets just say), But, How did it cause any damage? They need to at least explain it. Not just "oh, yeah u're using something we dont like, get lost"

Also, in your manual, notice the line above the "Use 5w20 oil". It saids "Recommended" oil. NOT "Required". I gotta say it again and again. 2 words. 2 meaning. and they're not close. simple.


AND, its not that hard to get maybe 50 or 100 people to send their "proof" that they use 5w20 + Dino oil but still getting engine failure.

One more thing, Mazda said they didn't test Synthetic oil for Rotary engines right? then ask them to explain what the fuxk is this ?

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130287&stc=1&d=1229049282

They said they didnt test Synthetic right? So What is this Full Synthetic, 0w30, PAO Based product ? and it has the same SAE/API rating. So. What is this all about ?




Seriously, I have a feeling these Synthetic = bad for Rotary myth only exist in Market OTHER than Japan. MNAO, stop being a freaking dumbass.

you have to understand that for some things the different regional parts of mazda act like seperate companies. in europe there has not been testing of specific synthetics to allow any and actually sent letters to owners saying "dont use synthetic" . Mazda Australia did that as well and got hit swith allot of questions about the oil they were importing for the dealerships. In Japan they have tested THAT synthetic and allow/promote it. The US hasnt done either and Canada has followed the Euro protocol

you have to understand that for some things the different regional parts of mazda act like seperate companies. in europe there has not been testing of specific synthetics to allow any and actually sent letters to owners saying "dont use synthetic" . Mazda Australia did that as well and got hit swith allot of questions about the oil they were importing for the dealerships. In Japan they have tested THAT synthetic and allow/promote it. The US hasnt done either and Canada has followed the Euro protocol

Now the question is, If I import that oil from Mazda Japan(I could) and use it on a new 8. If one day it breaks, Will Mazda deny my warranty? ROFL.

I think MNAO is running by a bunch of dumbasses who always thought that "if you never do it, things will never go wrong"

Am i correct ?

There are two seperate questions here....

1) what is best for the engine? (sohn adapter, premix, 10w-40 full. synth)

2) what will Mazda warantee? (whatever it says in the manual for your region)


Now, NYCGPS is absolutely right: the Mazda dealer has no way of knowing what oil you've been running; the reman plant isn't going to communicate back to Mazda and send guys to your door to collect money off you for an engine they've replaced.

The original poster stated that the dealer service department knows he has been running synthetic. That dealer has said they will not perform warranty work on his car. My advice is still that he should approach another dealer, or Mazda before he gives up.

I didn't say it was not possible to prove (or defend)... just that the cost of going to a 'real' court starts at about $30k and goes up from there. Class actions can cost in the million$.

That's why I say Mazda has a tough situation if they try to deny warranty because of someone using a synthetic oil, or a different viscosity oil. If they say "your engine died because you use 5w30", and we can look at 2 owners manuals from different countries -- one recommends 5w30, the other 5w20. So following the logic of their denial, oil viscosity is critical and deviating will cause failure. And since they now have stated in court that failure to use 5w20 oil will cause engine failure, then anyone in countries where Mazda says to use 5w30 now has grounds to sue because Mazda knowingly instructed them to use oil that causes engine failure. Similar situation with synthetic -- If Mazda in Europe and Canada "knows" synthetic causes failure, then failing to note it in US manuals is glaring. Since Mazda contradicts themselves in their customer documentation, making a definitive statement in court is a dangerous thing for them. It would be a lot smarter for them to simply settle a case than to bring their schizophrenic maintenance recommendations into the spotlight.

Nubo, like Zoom44 said, the individual regional companies decide what cars to import, and what warranties to give them. For example, I understand that in Australia they did not extend the core engine warranty to 100,000mi/160,000km; and Mazda Ireland is not even selling '09 RX-8's. The regions can do, and recommend, whatever they want in their business segments. I don't think the argument would work well in court that another region does something different.

Edit: I think we can agree on two facts: That 5w-20 oil was an emission-mandated decision, and (this is the tough one) that there have been no long-term tests done on running 5W-20 synthetic oils as far as apex seal lubrication and carbon deposits.

OK so I went to service today and theirs my new engine not install yet.. But the claim still hasn't gotten approved..The tech thats working on my 8 is telling me not to worry He said being that you had the reg oil in the engine for a couple days that it should cover up the blue synthetic oil stains on the bearing, but when Mazda cracks open my old engine there still maybe some synthetic oil residue. This makes no sense, am I getting all stressed out for nothing? I just hope I don't get banged in a couple of weeks with a 4000. bill

yeah they arent going to crack it anywhere but the reman center and they wont track it back even if they had reason to.

...it should cover up the blue synthetic oil stains on the bearing...

Wtf, my engine must look like a Smurf :lol:

Maybe they need to use another excuse.

The regions can do, and recommend, whatever they want in their business segments. I don't think the argument would work well in court that another region does something different.

Silver06, I guess we see it differently and I wouldn't want to have to test it myself in court either way. :)

But at some point Mazda's case has to come down to whether or not a customer's actions could reasonably be construed to have caused harm. They can put anything they like in the manual, but if it is arbitrary or capricious they would ultimately have a hard time enforcing it. And that doesn't even address the issue of trying to define the term "synthetic"! That's another can of worms Mazda would do well to leave unopened.

Silver06, I guess we see it differently and I wouldn't want to have to test it myself in court either way. :)

But at some point Mazda's case has to come down to whether or not a customer's actions could reasonably be construed to have caused harm. They can put anything they like in the manual, but if it is arbitrary or capricious they would ultimately have a hard time enforcing it. And that doesn't even address the issue of trying to define the term "synthetic"! That's another can of worms Mazda would do well to leave unopened.

The wording of your US manual as far as 'recommendations' and their implications as to warranty does appear to be open to interpretation. In this regard, I think you would have a good argument.

In contrast, in my Canadian manual, the: "Caution, do not use..." statement appears to me to be quite definitive, at least as far as an 'out' for Mazda Canada to choose to deny warranty (in this case), as the engine is being replaced due to not starting and/or low compression.

I would opine, in both of our countries, that the result of burning (as designed) non-petroleum oils, could either be detrimental to the installed emissions-control equipment, or harmful to the environment. I think this is what Mazda Canada and MNAO have based their intent on (assuming that other countries' do not have the notes about 5W-20 or synthetic oils). It is also my opinion that the 5W-20 recommendation is based solely on fuel economy, not on engine longevity.

IMHO, the root problem in the Renesis is insufficient apex seal lubrication along the centrelines of the rotors, and an overabundance of lubrication along the peripheries - causing both incomplete lubrication of the apex seals, and a coincident incomplete burn of the lubricating oil causing carbon buildup.

Why we are having these issues is unknown to me; whether this is a design flaw; the nature of the engine; or has been brought about by oil consumption reduction / emissions worries or, other external decisions.

I'd love to see (warranty) engine replacement figures for North America compared to the rest of the world - where thicker oils are recommended, and synthetics are not precluded.

Finally, there are so many cautions and warnings on products that I think they are overused and misunderstood.

I've enjoyed the discussion on this topic. I hope the Original Poster gets his engine repaired!

MAZDA WARRANTIED MY ENGINE!!!!! I will have my 8 back on Monday, One of the techs said when your car first came in did we check your coil? I said no all he did was Solution A. Plugs and wires I even brought that up to them and they said your not a tech we know what we're doing. So I'VE had a bad coil the whole time (that i gotta pay for $23.00) the coil was causing the misfire but i sill had low compression, anyway I got the reman engine and a new cat. So overall I'm happy that Mazda back up their warranty.....Maybe just Maybe theirs stil hope for Mazda

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback If I didn't have this thread I wouldn't have had the right information to get the new engine

Thanks especially to NYCGPS and ZOOM44 for all the right info

no worries- its why im here:)