I've owned the car now 1 week shy of two months. The RX-8 is fun to drive. But, the problems are inexcusable. So far, my experience with Mazda Service has been awful. On my first day of ownership, the Accessory Shock Sensor was freaking out. I took it in as soon as the Service Department opened. They said that they would have to order a new one. Later, I discovered a Service Bulletin issued on September 29 that said it should not be installed or sold to customers. They charged me about $500 for something they are not allowed to sell me! And get this, they still have not refunded my money.

On the very next day, the CEL comes on solid. I’m back in the Service Department not more than 15 hours after my previous visit. They talk to me about a gas gap. I tell them I have not driven far enough to need gas yet. Their Sales office filled the tank. They take it in. I take a rental car. Later, they tell me it was a loose wire. I pick up the car. I take it home, then to work the next day. Guess what. Yes, the CEL goes on again on as soon as I start the car for my drive home. I don't have time to deal with this. I wait a couple of days and then take it back to the Service Department. This time, they kept my RX-8 for 5 days. The cause they tell me is the PCM. They have to order a new one.

I wait. I wait. I wait. I call every week for status. I do my own research, including the RX8Club (the best resource I have found). I find a Service Bulletin issued on November 7 regarding the CEL. That is it. I call my Service Department on Nov 12. They do not even know about it and have to call me back. On call back, they tell me yes that should fix my problem. But, they have a problem. They tell me they do not have the software on their computer to reprogram my PCM. The Service Guy actually tells me that 66,000 RX-8 are reporting this problem, that sales are down, and that CEL is coming on during the test drives. I call Mazda Customer Service (800) 222-5500. I open a case. They say we will send you Mazda dollars for your trouble. I wait. I wait. I wait.

My car has almost 1700 miles on it, and only about 30 of those miles have been without the CEL on. I do not have Mazda dollars for my troubles. I do not have a refund on the charge for an option they were not allowed to sell me. I have contacted a Lemon Law attorney. I am considering taking it to a different dealer for one more service. If they cannot fix it, then I qualified my yellow RX-8 as a Lemon. I am sad. It is a fun car to drive when you ignore the problems.

Sounds like bad luck to me, coupled with a retarded dealership.

Proud owner of RX-8 since mid July with 11500 miles.

Zeltar, I would be just as angry as you if the same thing happened to me. Clearly your dealership is inept and has prolonged your issues well past due. And you seem to have gotten a car with a few of the early issues/bugs. Sorry about your circumstance, I appreciate hearing your feedback in the calm manner in which you presented it.

I have 7,500 miles on my sub 3000 series VIN car and it's running strong. I've had the "rotor click when turning" issue, which was resolved. And a new oil pan and sensor on order even though I've only encountered the low oil light issue once (I don't keep my oil that low to have it come on).

The problems don' t scare me. I had one of the first 300ZX cars that rolled off the line (1990 model) and it had at least a dozen problems in the first year. But, in that case, Nissan addressed every issue and none reoccured. In some cases, I had issues before any service notices and they made me pay for it... only later to get the recall and a nice check in the mail. That dealer cared.

I think if I could find more evidence of the PCM problem on the boards, I would believe the service department. The more I read, the more I think you're right - they are enept. Guess I'll try and locate another dealer in the area. I'm tired of seeing the CEL warning light.

I had cel come on three times
took car to dealer to have ecu flashed and it hasn't come back yet

Originally posted by Zeltar
They tell me they do not have the software on their computer to reprogram my PCM. The Service Guy actually tells me that 66,000 RX-8 are reporting this problem, that sales are down, and that CEL is coming on during the test drives.


I would not let a service department this inept work on my car.

Also, there is something seriously wrong with the stuff your service guy told you. Are there actually 66,000 RX-8's that have been sold? Sounds a bit weird to me.

I thought that weird too. But what I found more disturbing is the guy was telling me about a car he owned of which he also had the CEL problem. He said he'd driven it for years (I don't recall, but I remember is was more than a decade) that way. It was like he was telling me to "live with it".

The lawyer tells me they'll take the case with no charges to me. And, all I need to do is take it in one more time and let them fail. But, the dealer doesn't want to see me again until they have a fix. So, must find another dealer.

If I use the CA Lemon Law, do I then get another RX-8? Or, seek out something else? I moved from a 300ZX to this. Tried Saab, BMW, and Volvo... and they all felt relatively weak in comparison. Only the RX-8 felt more substantial. Want 4 seats (<--- did I just say that - wow! - Family changes things).

Zeltar
Sorry to hear of your misfortunes with your 8
I had similar frustrations with mine for about 5 weeks.
I heard the same "lines" from the service advisors.
But, I believe that the car is worth the efforts put forth to remedy the problem. For mine the final fix was the replacement of the upper intake as it was leaking. Since that repair it's been fine and it now seems to get 22mpg (as apposed to 15). My question is what dealer is giving you the runaround????? Just currious.
Hope you find a competent dealer for servicing 'cause this is a car like no other (for now) ha ha
Regards

The dealer is Irvine Mazda. Went surfing for some recommendations. Looks like a few people like Tustin Mazda. Just, can't seem to find an address on the Web. I imagine it's in the Tustin Auto Center, so may just cruise by there.

Someone, maybe you, posted the intake manifold story on another thread. Of course, I'm interested in how they determined that. Glad they found it. Thought I'd bring it up at the dealer, but then also thinking that there are about a hundred things that would trigger the CEL.

If I can find a good dealer, I'll probably give them 2 more times to try and fix this. The rest of the car is great. Even gets decent mileage (18 to 23.5).

Do you have enough down time to make a lemon law claim?

If you do, I wouldn't even wait to pass go. Dump it and get an 8 with an October build.

Really.

Vince

Zeltar,

I have the same problem with CEL. My recurrent CEL code is related to the evap system, but is not the same code listed in the TSB. I have been told by both the dealer and Mazda customer service that a reprogram is needed and currently being worked on, however I was told it would be available 8 weeks ago. My light has been on since delivery (with the exception of the first 30-40 miles.)

The dealer currently has my car for the 3rd time for CEL. They are trying to install a valve which is supposed to prevent the CEL from triggering, until the reprogram is available. Sounds like BS to me.

The car is awesome, peformance and gas mileage not an issue, but this CEL business is frustrating. Perhaps I should also look into the lemon law.

Lemon Law that bad boy and get an 8 with a later build date. I love my rotaries, but I refuse to make excuses for Mazda. They need to support their flagship product just a bit better. Good luck.

"66,000 RX-8 are reporting this problem"? WTF? As far as I know, fewer than half that number are even manufactured, much less on the road "reporting" problems.

Secondly, for some bizarre reason they are unaware of TSBs until you rub their noses in it?

Where is this wonderful dealership?

Doesn't sound like there's necessarily anything terribly wrong with the vehicle. If you like it aside from the CEL, I'd say try to find a competent dealership and get it resolved rather than giving your crackpot dealer another "chance" to screw up just so you can trigger the lemon law. I wouldn't let them near my car again.

I'm currently going through the same problem. Third time back to the dealer with the recurring CEL light. How does one go about making a lemon claim?

I know the sources of the CEL can be many. In my case it was a stuck thermostat. Maybe you should ask them about that, since they seem to be fishing for a solution.

Well now... I've taken the RX-8 to a different Dealer Service Dept. Very helpful. They actually let me go back into the garage and talk to the mechanic. Found that the battery was putting out only 12.4 volts. They replaced. Hope this works.

I just can't fricking believe the original dealer kept me on hold with an "I don't know" for 2 months for a battery! I'll report back if the fix fails.

I started an earlier thread about my CEL light and shared the same problem as Zeltar with the constant going back to the dealer. I got a call today and they told me that the Mazda hotline told them to start the engine cold and then check if there was COOLANT on the SPARK PLUGS. Apparently, there was. So now they're going to have replace the engine. WTF, only after 1,100 miles. I asked them if I was the only one that had this problem at the dealership and the mechanic said it was the first one that had a problem with coolant. My question is when the engine is replaced, will that fix the coolant problem? Anybody know? I'm seriously considering making a lemon claim.

that blows
I think two others had the engine replaced

To date...12/5/2003...there have only been ~28,000 RX-8s manufactured...that 66,000 statement by a dealer is inexcusable...what are they? a Subaru dealer that has a Mazda resale license?

Originally posted by JaChTsai
I'm currently going through the same problem. Third time back to the dealer with the recurring CEL light. How does one go about making a lemon claim?

JaChTsai, I was reading some of your posts. I'm feeling your pain. My CEL light actually remained "off" yesterday after picking it up from the dealer. I drove it around a bunch last night. This is the longest it's stayed off. So, I hope it was the battery.

In California, during the first 18 months or 18000 miles (which ever comes first), you need to give the dealer the opportunity to repair the problem 4 times OR have the car out of services (for whatever reason service related reason) over 30 days. For my situation, if the CEL comes on one more time in the next 16 months, the Lemon law is triggered under the 4 opportunities clause.

Zeltar, I hope this takes care of the problem. Just goes to show there is a HUGE difference from dealer to dealer. Best of luck to you!

Thanks Zeltar. If the CEL light comes back on for the 4th time, what steps are you going to take? Do you call Mazda corporate and tell them your car is a lemon? Or do you get yourself a lemon law attorney?

Originally posted by JaChTsai
Thanks Zeltar. If the CEL light comes back on for the 4th time, what steps are you going to take? Do you call Mazda corporate and tell them your car is a lemon? Or do you get yourself a lemon law attorney?

As a courtesy, I'll add to my Case number opened at Mazda corporate.

To protect myself, I searched the web and found www.lemonauto.com (Consumer Legal Services). Filled out the online form. They followed up with a phone call to me. I have collected all the documentation necessary. No charges to me at anytime through the case. All attorney fees are billed to Mazda. This is what Consumer Legal Services needs to evaluate your Lemon Law case:
1) ALL repair orders (not just the ones related to CEL)
2) Sales, Financing or Lease Contract
3) Extended warranty (if applicable)
4) Title or Registration

Assuming your case triggered the law, they will file papers. It's really clear cut - you either qualify and have a lemon, or you don't.

Ironically, when the Sales Person followed up with me to see how satisfied I was enjoying the car, and then heard my story, not only did she talk to the Service Dept (and got no farther than I with the enept), she also told me to protect myself and open the case at Mazda (and save all documentation if you need to file as a Lemon). I've bought new cars before - none have ever talked of the lemon law upfront.

So... if the light stays off... Great! If the CEL goes back on... So be it. It just changes who I talk to in order to resolve the issues.

Originally posted by xXxRx8xXx
www.freewebs.com/xyto My RX-8 ,and the babes arent included

You jerk, what is this link to???

Originally posted by Dick Carlson
You jerk, what is this link to??? Hit cancel or the "X" and don't go to his link anymore. Some clown got banned lastnight from the server and he is back again.. Time to send the Mods another update....

Yep, already PM'd them and they are on it.

CEL came on again last night. Boy - that was the longest it has EVER stayed off. Friday Night through Monday afternoon. Almost 1800 miles now, of which 1700 had the CEL on. Took it back to the dealer again (the new one). Looks like my car just got all its credentials as a lemon. Suitable for yellow, I suppose.

I think I'll see how they do this time. If it comes on again, I'll bypass the dealer services and mail the copies to the lawyer.

Damn Zeltar. When you thought you were in the clear... that sux, man... So Mazda will pay for your lemon lawyer? Also, I didn't keep all my repair orders, but that shouldn't be too big of a problem right? considering I had all my work done at the same dealership. Also, what are you gonna do? Opt for a new rx-8?

Originally posted by JaChTsai
Damn Zeltar. When you thought you were in the clear... that sux, man... So Mazda will pay for your lemon lawyer? Also, I didn't keep all my repair orders, but that shouldn't be too big of a problem right? considering I had all my work done at the same dealership. Also, what are you gonna do? Opt for a new rx-8?

The attorney needs the repair orders and the purchase agreement in order to make the case. That is the evidence. I wouldn't want to depend on Mazda to build a lemon law case against themselves. Last half hour, I had a talk with a neighbor (coincidently an attorney) who has returned two cars because they were lemons. But, in her case, she negotiated with the dealers to buy the cars back. I was also thinking about doing this, because they have incentive. That is, if it actually "Lemons" through court, then it must be disclosed on resale AND if the car has the same problem only 1 more time in a year, it again qualifies as a lemon. If they buy it back, then they can sell it as a used car. Since you didn't keep the evidence, and Mazda does not know this, then I would try and get Mazda to buy the car back as it's more advantageous for them to do such.

On counterpoint, letting Mazda buy-it-back is like giving the lemon problem to someone else. Though it's not my problem anymore, I'm not sure that is fair to the next buyer.

Originally posted by JaChTsai
Also, what are you gonna do? Opt for a new rx-8?

Oh yeah, forgot this part of your question... I'm debating with getting another RX-8 (this time with the Navigation system, but delete the floor mats; delete the alarm shock sensor that should not have been sold to me in the first place according the service bullitens; delete the spare tire which is collecting dust in my garage; and delete the cassette play of which I can't imagine using. That ought to just about cover the cost variance.

The other options may be the G35, the 325i, or the Saab 9.5. I don't think they are as fun, but I need reliablity over anything. Except, I keep wondering if I don't want to try performance on the other end of the spectrum - mileage... which begs the question is the Toyota Prius something to look into.

I just picked up my second RX-8 (I did the buyback on the first) with the NAV and love it. Some more advice.. I would get a RX-8 with a late build date of 10-2003 or later. My new car is quite a bit different/better than the old.

Vince

Originally posted by Zeltar
Well now... I've taken the RX-8 to a different Dealer Service Dept. Very helpful. They actually let me go back into the garage and talk to the mechanic. Found that the battery was putting out only 12.4 volts. They replaced. Hope this works

Huh? "only" 12.4 volts? It's a 12-volt battery, right?

Alternators put out around 14V or so IIRC, but 12.4 sounds ok for the battery. When the engine is running electric demand is satisfied by the alternator, not the battery.

Originally posted by Zeltar
In California, during the first 18 months or 18000 miles (which ever comes first), you need to give the dealer the opportunity to repair the problem 4 times OR have the car out of services (for whatever reason service related reason) over 30 days. For my situation, if the CEL comes on one more time in the next 16 months, the Lemon law is triggered under the 4 opportunities clause.

first let me say that i feel your pain. my car tripped the cel for the first tiem this morning. i only hope mine can be corrected quickly. we'll see.

second- i don't think throwing a cel 4 times is enough to qualify as a lemon. my understanding of the law is that it has to be the same problem 4 times that goes unresolved. or a variety of problems that keep the car out of service for whatever the set time limit is without resolution. but see a cel isn't a problem, it is an indicator of a condition that the computer has been told to warn you about. the cel could trip 10 times but each time for a different condition, which wouldn't qualify it as a lemon. especially if it tripped, for instance, every time right after you refueled because you weren't tightening the gas cap properly. or because you ignored the low oil light long enough to trip the cel, several times. so the important thing it would seem to me, would be to document the reason the cel tripped each time it does.

Originally posted by zoom44
i don't think throwing a cel 4 times is enough to qualify as a lemon. my understanding of the law is that it has to be the same problem 4 times that goes unresolved. or a variety of problems that keep the car out of service for whatever the set time limit is without resolution. but see a cel isn't a problem, it is an indicator of a condition that the computer has been told to warn you about. the cel could trip 10 times but each time for a different condition, which wouldn't qualify it as a lemon. especially if it tripped, for instance, every time right after you refueled because you weren't tightening the gas cap properly. or because you ignored the low oil light long enough to trip the cel, several times. so the important thing it would seem to me, would be to document the reason the cel tripped each time it does.

Thanks Zoom44. I'm aware of the provisions, and have consulted an attorney just to make sure I don't misinterpret the law. Here is a link to the California law:

http://www.lemonauto.com/lemon_laws/text_ca.htm

For paragrah (b) which reads
(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, one or more of the following occurs:

I believe this section applies:
(2) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

and nonconformity in the law is defined as:
(1)"Nonconformity" means a nonconformity which substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the new motor vehicle to the buyer or lessee

Your point is well taken. Does CEL mean substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the new motor vehicle. I'm thinking yes, because if it's a false indication, then the fact that it is on will cover up a real problem if one were to exist. Also, it will be difficult to sell a vehicle at a competitive value if it has a warning light on.

Also, I do not believe that the dealer can claim that any of their fixes brought resolution. Since, the light came on either before I left the service department parking lot, or within 72 hours of leaving the dealership every time. This is a strong indication that their guess at what should fix the problem was incorrect each and every time! They can reset the light and give me the car stating they solved the problem. But, that doesn't hold water. Part of the CEL test, according to the Mazda mechanic, happens at engine shutdown - but it doesn't do the test everytime. Various "events" trigger the tests. According to one Mazda Service Department, they are reseting the CEL on cars not sold yet - just to get them out the door.

thanks zeltar for the clarifications. so if the service is incompetent or lazy and you ask for lemon status can mazda then say "well wait give us a chance! let us send our techs over to fix it right" can you legally refuse that or do they have a right to correct it?

edit: did they tell you what error codes they were getting on your car?

Originally posted by zoom44
thanks zeltar for the clarifications. so if the service is incompetent or lazy and you ask for lemon status can mazda then say "well wait give us a chance! let us send our techs over to fix it right" can you legally refuse that or do they have a right to correct it?

edit: did they tell you what error codes they were getting on your car?

You know zoom44, it's been in the shop the last two full days and I still don't have it back. I guess, we'll all find out together - as I'll keep updating this thread as events unfold.

It's my understanding that this is their last chance. By putting my VIN in their computer, they can see all the service across dealerships. I've been saying to friends orally that if I we're Mazda, and I knew this was my last chance - I'd now keep the car as long as possible to make sure I took care of the problem (since I have around 2.5 weeks left for the 30 day limit).

The Service guys did not orally share the code(s). But, looking at my documentation, they printed them on the receipts. That's good enough for me.

Originally posted by compaddict
I just picked up my second RX-8 (I did the buyback on the first) with the NAV and love it. Some more advice.. I would get a RX-8 with a late build date of 10-2003 or later. My new car is quite a bit different/better than the old.

Vince

Your words are inspiring. I just may follow in your foot steps.

Originally posted by Nubo
Huh? "only" 12.4 volts? It's a 12-volt battery, right?

Alternators put out around 14V or so IIRC, but 12.4 sounds ok for the battery. When the engine is running electric demand is satisfied by the alternator, not the battery.

I'm not sure about this. Seems to me that all my cars put out about 13.5 volts. And, even when I was heavy into CB Radio, the DC Converter (if you used a mobile as a base) also put out 13.5 volts. Based on my memory of this, I didn't question the mechanic when he showed me that it was low. But, then again, I thought the alternator charged the battery, and that the electronics were run off the battery itself. Also, that the regulator determined how much charge the battery needed.

Originally posted by Zeltar
You know zoom44, it's been in the shop the last two full days and I still don't have it back. I guess, we'll all find out together - as I'll keep updating this thread as events unfold.

It's my understanding that this is their last chance. By putting my VIN in their computer, they can see all the service across dealerships. I've been saying to friends orally that if I we're Mazda, and I knew this was my last chance - I'd now keep the car as long as possible to make sure I took care of the problem (since I have around 2.5 weeks left for the 30 day limit).

Mazda tech line won't let them release the car! Looks like I was unintentionally correct - they want to make sure they got it right. Maybe flying some tech's out from Japan to look at it.

What VIN range is your car?

Vince

Originally posted by compaddict
What VIN range is your car?

Vince
0109xxx where xxx is beteen 000 and 999.

Thanks, I was just wondering!

Vince

My car has been out for almost a week now. Cumulatively, it's been out for about 13, 14 days. They're dropping a new engine in, but I wonder if it's going to solve anything.

Originally posted by Zeltar
I'm not sure about this. Seems to me that all my cars put out about 13.5 volts. And, even when I was heavy into CB Radio, the DC Converter (if you used a mobile as a base) also put out 13.5 volts. Based on my memory of this, I didn't question the mechanic when he showed me that it was low. But, then again, I thought the alternator charged the battery, and that the electronics were run off the battery itself. Also, that the regulator determined how much charge the battery needed.

Car batteries are generally 12 volts and are made up of 6 cells in series. Each cell puts out about 2 volts. That's a result of the electrical potential of the materials that make up the cell (lead/acid). That's why batteries can come in many sizes and all have the same basic voltage. I just checked the battery in my car and it reads 12.5V with no load.

The alternator has to put out enough voltage to charge the battery. It has to be higher than the battery's voltage before it can cram more electrons into the battery. Car's systems tap the battery, yes. But once the alternator is running, the resulting voltage to the car's systems is higher than what you'd get from the battery alone. This is probably where your remembrances of higher readings comes from. So, things that take car's electric power are designed with the running voltage in mind, like your CB. Since it could expect 13.5 volts in practice, it was designed for that power level. When using it as a base station, the power supply was designed to replicate that "normal" voltage.

Depending on the vehicle this can be noticeable, for instance if you park with your lights hitting a wall, turn off the car with the lights still on you will probably notice a distinct dimming of the lights. I can also note it distinctly when I run my portable air compressor. It's considerably peppier if I have the engine running.

This is why I was doubtful when I read they'd given you a new battery based on its reading of 12.4 volts. For one, that sounded fairly normal, and secondly the car's electrical is running at the alternator voltage when underway so it didn't seem likely to explain a CEL coming on during a ride.

Now perhaps I've misunderstood or there's been some miscommunication at the dealer and maybe they were talking about running voltage. But in that case I'd still be surprised that a battery swap was the only action taken.

I am rooting for them to get it right this time so you can put this all behind and enjoy your car.

Originally posted by compaddict
I just picked up my second RX-8 (I did the buyback on the first) with the NAV and love it. Some more advice.. I would get a RX-8 with a late build date of 10-2003 or later. My new car is quite a bit different/better than the old.

Vince


What is better about it? Mine is an August build with absolutely no problems. VIN 12XXX

Originally posted by Nubo

Now perhaps I've misunderstood or there's been some miscommunication at the dealer and maybe they were talking about running voltage. But in that case I'd still be surprised that a battery swap was the only action taken.

Nubo - you didn't misunderstand a thing. I stood over the mechanic while he showed the service advisor and me the code, explained what Mazda and Ford said the code meant (they apparently have dual meanings) of which he trusted Mazda's definition more, proceeded to check the battery voltage and stated it was low. The car was not running. Thanks for taking time to provide a detailed explanation - it helps!

Update:
Very interesting. My car is no longer at the dealer I took it to. Nope. It was taken to Mazda North American headquarters in Irvine. I must admit, I'm a little impressed. I guess the Tech Line got tired of working through the field mechanic, and wanted to see it for themselves.

Keeping you all in the loop.

Update Again
Still driving a rental car. Currently suffering from RX-8 withdrawel symptoms.

The findings: One of three vacuum control switches is bad, which is throwing a PCM code. They replaced the switch. They did this late last week. But, have been keeping the car to make sure the fix works. Since they are keeping it so long, I went ahead and asked them to replace the oil pan (it's in the Bulletin VIN range). Hopefully, I get the car back tomorrow. We'll see.

Lemon Law count down: This is the 4th attempt of a total of 4 allowed (i.e. they must get it right). I need to compute exactly, but I think we are over 50% through the out-of-service count of 30 days.

Good luck!

Vince

Originally posted by Zeltar
Update Again
Still driving a rental car. Currently suffering from RX-8 withdrawel symptoms.

The findings: One of three vacuum control switches is bad, which is throwing a PCM code. They replaced the switch. They did this late last week. But, have been keeping the car to make sure the fix works. Since they are keeping it so long, I went ahead and asked them to replace the oil pan (it's in the Bulletin VIN range). Hopefully, I get the car back tomorrow. We'll see.

Lemon Law count down: This is the 4th attempt of a total of 4 allowed (i.e. they must get it right). I need to compute exactly, but I think we are over 50% through the out-of-service count of 30 days.

Hopefully this will do the trick! Have fun

Update:
Dealer Service Dept went to Mazda North American Headquarters to pick up car - transport it back to Dealer Service Dept. Upon start up, the Check Engine Light went back on. Either the vacuum control switch was the wrong fix, or another problem has tripped the CEL. The car remains at Headquarters. No RX-8 for me, today. I wonder if they are scratching their heads.

The SAGA continues...

Maybe they will just give you a new car. How long has it been?

Originally posted by 93rdcurrent
How long has it been?

Just over 2 months old, been in the shop 17 days with 5 different visits (invoices), 4 of which were for the CEL. I got it back today. The official verdict is that the secondary solenoid valve had to be replaced (PCM Code = PO661). Apparently, the extra night at Headquarters was due to a "porter panic" that either had to do with seeing the light without starting the car or a light on condition as a result of battery reconnection. Anyway, to get to this valve, they had to remove the intake manifold.

Today - the porter transfered my car back to the Service Department I took it too.

Since my VIN falls in the range, I also had them change out the oil pan. Kind of tired of visiting the service department so much.

The good news - I got to drive my car today. And, wow, after driving around a rental (Durango) for 9 days, it sure felt great to be back in the RX-8.

Lemon Law watch: If the CEL comes on in the next 17,200 miles, then it's an automatic Lemon. Or, if I have to take the car in for greater than 13 more days of warranty service for any covered item... it qualifies.

I'll update this thread if it happens again.

You want a lemon here is another one repurchased under the Virginia lemon law. Some of you may have already seen these threads about my '02 Passat W8. I firmly believe that most of these issues were due to the ineptitude of the dealerships' service dept. Please check it out if you have the time!

Re: '02 VW Passat W8 Buyback

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=725295

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=916694

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=907714

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=869873

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=942240

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=839434

Oh and as for the gas cap issue, as laughable as it may seem is a viable and valid fix for some of the CEL issues. My W8 had a CEL light 6 times in as many months and what I found out was that when the OBDII emmission controls and its related software was mandated by the govt. the systems got so sensitive that it would trigger a CEL light if the gas cap was not tightened at least three - five clicks.

In the case of my VW the evaporative emission control system is pressurized by a Leak Detection Pump. When you start the car the Evap system is pressurized by this pump as part of a required self test. The system then starts to leak down and the time it takes to leak down is measured and if it drops to a specific point before a specified period of time it means there is a leak in the Evap system and flags the CEL. Part of this problem is a loose or defective gas cap which will cause the leak in pressure and turn on the CEL light.
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Oh as an addendum to my last post they finally replaced the Leak Detection Pump. After replacing the gas cap twice they fogged the evap system and found a pinhole leak in the pump. This fixed my CEL problem.

with this printout in hand.

I'll update this thread when I find out the CEL culprit.

My CEL was a P...420 - False positive on the catalytic converter. Upgraded the EEPROMs to version "N3..." and I'm good to go - thank goodness!