I have a deal sealed with a local dealer, but I am waiting (rather impatiently) for Mazda to talk about what they are doing with the vehicles they purchased back due to the hp problem.

couple questions
1. would you guys buy one that was bought back? ( I can only imagine how hard these cars were driven before being turned in)

2. Do you think eventual re-sale value is hurt due to being titled three times at that point?

Has anybody heard for sure what Mazda is doing with these cars?

Mazda in the US has said that bought-back RX-8s are classed the same as lemon-law buy-backs, and they will NOT be resold to the general public. Apparently, they are being offered for purchase to Mazda employees only. Mazda Canada, on the other hand, did put the few buy-back cars on the dealer's used car lots.

Regards,
Gordon

I thought so. My best friend has a relative that works in California for Mazda and I am waiting to hear whether or not she can buy one for me. Am I still right to maybe stay away from these cars because they may have been abused before turn in?

How much of a discount do you think would warrant consideration? The deal I am getting for a new Titanium Grey GT, moonroof, rotary package, cd changer, bose, spare tire, etc for 29,600 + TTLF. I wonder how much cheaper the used ones might be that Mazda has. Are they even worth considering if the relative can buy one for me?

If I turned mine back in, I would have drove the crap out of that thing. ...why not, Mazda was willing to buy back (no questions) if the car still looked presentable (no dents etc.), but unfortunately you can't see what was done to the engine...
you can try buying one of those, but there lies your dilema...who knows, you MIGHT get lucky.

I think you are right. My only hope could be this. I wonder if you can get the original owner from the title and get a hold of them to see why they turned it back in and if they drove the hell out of it prior to turn in. If I confirmed that it was turned in because of affordability, etc. than I might consider it.

Originally posted by cardinal35
How much of a discount do you think would warrant consideration? The deal I am getting for a new Titanium Grey GT, moonroof, rotary package, cd changer, bose, spare tire, etc for 29,600 + TTLF.

That doesn't strike me as a very good deal... that's still at least $1000 OVER dealer invoice, and only about a $1300 discount off MSRP. Some 8's are being had at or below dealer invoice. Just FYI.

Originally posted by Omicron
That doesn't strike me as a very good deal... that's still at least $1000 OVER dealer invoice, and only about a $1300 discount off MSRP. Some 8's are being had at or below dealer invoice. Just FYI.

Exactly

Originally posted by rgonzal3
If I turned mine back in, I would have drove the crap out of that thing. ...why not, Mazda was willing to buy back (no questions) if the car still looked presentable (no dents etc.), but unfortunately you can't see what was done to the engine...


maybe; maybe not. I recall the discussion at the time those turning their cars in were deathly afraid of scratching them and then being liable for the damage. Many were treating them with kid gloves at the end. but, as you say, who knows if you'll get lucky or not...

They are going to become product demos ... if they make it into teh hands of Mazda employees it will be to show them off and demo them.

The person working on this for me has located the car that I want and it was turned in in early November. She is still trying to get an answer on the mileage and what the price will be. I am just going to have to judge based on the price if it is low enough to warrant taking a used one vs. the new one.

29,600 was the S plan price for the vehicle. I think the sticker is 32,600. FYI.

S plan pricing is below dealer invoice I think...at least it has been for the cars I'm looking at. Hmmm...

jds

all I know is I gave the vin # to my contact at Mazda and she came back with S-plan price of 29,600. It is a 6spd, grey titanium Grand Touring, spoiler, 6cd, black leather, rotary package, spare tire kit, pretty much everything but appearance package. The dealer is kind of dragging their feet on the invoice amount. Do you know what the invoice amount should be on the vehicle or do you know a way to find out? I have asked for it, but they dont seem real willing to part with the info. I also am looking at a used one that was bought back under the HP controversy. Still waiting on a price or mileage. How can you tell from the vin # when the car was manufactured?

I have heard others on the board say to try to get models built in October or later. Is there a way to check that without calling the dealer. I wish I could easily switch dealers but the next closest one is about 70 miles away and this dealer has the one I want.

cardinal35, I see an invoice of $29,736 and MSRP of $32,589 with
1GT MT Grand Touring Package
CDC In-Dash 6-Disc CD Changer
STR Spare Tire Kit
RSW Rear Wing Spoiler
2RP Rotary Accent Package

Kirk

so in your opinion, is this a pretty good deal?

I turned my car in on Tuesday. It was not driven any harder the month before it was returned than when it was new. Just remember because it was turned in for horsepower issues does not mean there were not problems on why the owner decided to return it. Mine was in the shop 5 times for an a/c problem that could not/was not repaired. I kept being told a repair fix was in the works and I got tired of being used as a trouble shooter experiment.
If interest in a buy back car ask for a copy of all repair or warranty work and claims. Also get feedback from several dealers on how they view a car with a branded title labeled as a buy back. I would guess some would refuse to accept one as a trade-in when you got ready to buy another car. Only then would I negotiate on a price.

Hey, 1Fine8, I am curious, how come you are just turning yours in? Did it take that long to get the deal done? The deadline was October 1st. wasn't it?

My brother lives in Ohio and he tells me one dealer there has over 40 brand new 8s on the lot. I don't know why anyone would want to purchase a returned car. When I turned mine in it was getting a whopping 12.5 miles per gallon and air conditioner that blew hot and cold.

My advice to anyone really wanting one would be to buy a new one. Might as well have your own problems rather than someone elses.

Good point. I also think that MazdaUSA did not want to flood the market with used 8's so early in the game, possibly hurting new car sales and depressing values.

Hey Commentator,

"When I turned mine in...." Did you get another one? Just curious.

The person working on this for me works in lemon dept for Mazda in California. She has assured me that if I would choose to go with a turned in 8, I would get full disclosure on the vehicle history. Also full warranty, and I am fairly certain that a previous reply on this subject is incorrect because she is certain that the title on these vehicles will not be "branded."

I still think I am leaning towards a new one. I was just curious to see if they will "dump" these vehicles at a really low price. If so, it might warrant consideration. If they are not significantly cheaper, then I am going for the new one.

Does anyone know how to tell from the VIN # when the car was built?

would you care to expand? dont go where? The used one?

Like I said talk to several different car dealers and get their opinion on a "buy back" or a "lemon law" car and see how it affects the resale. I imagine there is a discloser form that must be signed by both seller and buyer so there is written verification that the buyer had notice of the problem vehicle and a requirement that each subsequent seller must provide written notice to a buyer of the cars past. Ask them also if a seller of the car "tries to pull the wool" over a buyer and does not disclose this information what the penalty is. Ask Mazda what happens when you mistate horsepower by 6-10 hp.

I did submit my repurchase request by October 1. It took several back and forth conversations and faxes with prices for accessories, tag fees, and such before prices were agreed upon. Then Mazda kept getting a 20 day payoff from the loan company. And I kept making payments that messed up their figures. Mazda did not seem to want the car back in any rush and I knew they were going to refund me at some time. I had already started the "lemon law" return process before the repurchase letter was sent out.

May be a shot in the dark, but if you go to the forum's search page and enter the last five digits of the VIN, you may be able to find out if the car belonged to someone active on the forum. We've shared VIN numbers in various threads, its worth a shot!

Has anyone bought a buyback car? What were the good and bad points?

Holy old thread.

Talk about thread resurrection! But yes, my RX-8 is a buyback. Bought it from a 1 year lease return, prior to that it was bought back by Mazda.

The only thing you need to worry about if you buy a car that was in the buy-back list, it's an early production model so you have more recall and general warranty issues that need to be dealt with. Once those are taken care of (at Mazda's expense!) it's just as good, IMHO, as any other slightly used car. :)

I'd be more worried about the fact that it has been sitting around for two years if it is just now getting sold.

I have one that I bought last June. It had been sold at auction by Mazda and the car lot that I dealt with (a place that specialized in used sports cars) had bought 4 at drastically low prices. It has been a great car with no unusual issues and the buyback made it a fantastic financial deal as Mazda essentially ate a huge amount of depreciation in the process. There is nothing on the title and the Carfax clearly indicates that it was bought back because of a HP advertising issue and states that there were no service or reliability issues what so ever associated with the buyback. It was a great deal and I would do it again in a heartbeat. It still has a healthy chunk of factory warranty left. I bought it with 14k miles and have about 20 now with only routine service.

Has anyone bought a buyback car? What were the good and bad points?

Curious to see if anyone turned up here with your former car?

+1 for novelty value. I've seen thread resurrections before, but I can't think of one which was resurrected by one of its prior participants.

what? i never heard of this before... how do they buy your car back, how do i know if my car is one of those that lack horsepower?

I'd like to know about more about this "buy back" issue? Which vehicle's were affected? Was this information relayed to the public (notices, etc.)

Whoa, easy! You didn't hear of it because it is old, old news. If you get in the way-back machine you'll find there was a big scandal about promised hp vs. actual hp on the first RX-8s sold in the US. Some folks got vouchers for free service, I think some other folks were eligible for buy-backs. I think I've got that right, but I'm basing that on skimming old threads so I might be off a bit. Anyway, this all happened back in 2003 - it's not an active program now.

The current question is - Do any of the current forum members own any of these original RX-8 that were bought-back, reconditioned, then re-sold?

Ahhh ...I see. Why would Mazda still advetise the 8 putting out 230+ horses? Is that how the auto industry advertises hp -- at the crank or is the 230+ incorrect?

long time ago in a galaxy far far away, the RX-8 was advertised as having 247hp.... then people dyno'd their cars, and realized no way their cars made 247, or close to it, so Mazda had to 're-state' the hp number to today's 238hp... and to appease those that bought the car *thinking* it had 247hp, and to avoid being sued for false advertising, they offered either free maintenance through the full life of the new car warranty, or a full buyback of the car.....

and that's the background of this OLD OLD thread.... die thread die

2 yr old thread... let it go...

One of the requirements was that the car had to have a factory sticker stating "247 HP", and you had to have taken delivery (I believe) sometime before the middle of August 2003.

I have one of those cars but I did not opt for the buy back. Instead I took the offer of a $500 credit card and free scheduled maintenance for the warranty period.

I would recommend the early builds to anyone. Anything that comes up as a problem is covered under warranty. Reliability wise I would put my 5/2003 RX-8 up against an 8 built in 11/2005 (IMHO).

Actually when I ordered mine the rated Horse Power was still estimated to be 250. Mazda settled for 247HP on the window sticker. When I got my VIN, I was able to download a window sticker which stated 247HP, however, when my car came from the Port (over a month later than any other car ordered around the same time I ordered mine) the sticker on the car read 238HP. I took delivery in early October, and the dealer never gave me any trouble about the $500 cash card and free service. I didn't even have to show them the window sticker that I downloaded. The cards were right there, and my wife got a great pair of pearl earrings out of it. After 35,000 miles or so and a couple of rear end collisions, I still love the car, and I have never regretted having taken delivery. (My choice was either to take or not take delviery, but if I took delviery it was with the cash and service cards). Also, I get to have that really cool Lightening Yellow, which somehow seems to attract accidents, but that is an issue I have yet to figure out.

During the week of May26th this year I bought what I was told was a off lease 2004 RX8 GT with 27K miles on it. It was loaded with everything from a local dealer here in the Seattle area. The vehicle on a scale of 1-10 was a 9, no chips in the paint anywhere, and the interior and all of the accessories; NAV, Bose system worked great, everything seemed perfect. It did need the normal wear items replaced. Prior to consumating the deal I ran a CarFax on it and it came up clean, no problems as all.

This last Tuesday August 12th, 2008 I received a call from the bank I had chosen to finance the small balance I owed on the vehicle, The woman calling said there was a problem with the RX8 I had purchased. She said the bank had received the title from the State of Idaho DMV office in Boise on Monday, August 11th, 2008 and the Idaho title came back as a "branded" title. She went on to explain that a branded title was issued on a vehicle that had been purchased back by the manufacturer so as not to have it go back under a "lemon Law" claim. She stated further that the bank would not finance any type of questionable titled vehicle and unfortunately this came under that heading. I asked for and received a fax copy of the title, with the previous owners name blanked out, and there was no mistake the VIN on the title was in fact the vehicle I had purchased eight weeks ago.

I then called the dealer and spoke to the used car manager and he was aware of the situation and said it was a error on their part as the vehicle had been purchased at the local vehicle auction and they were not told it had a "branded" title when they purchased it. They did say they would replace it with a vehicle that was similar and we could work out the details.

On Wednesday, August 13th, 2008 my insurance company called and said that they had been notified by my bank that the vehicle I had purchased was a "buy-back" or branded vehicle and they would not insure it due to the fact there was no disclosure on what exactly was wrong with the vehicle and exactly who fixed it and due to liability issues I had four (4) weeks to turn it back to the dealer and/or find another vehicle to purchase. He went on to say I would be receiving a letter from them stating I had until a specific date and/or the insurance would be cancelled.

So the moral of this story is this; I read the other postings in this thread about "Mazda not selling" these vehicles, don't fool yourself, it happens.

Needless to say I am pissed off to the hilt about this and I will be filing a complaint with the Washington State Attorney General's office over this mess. Why you might add? At no time during the two visits I made to this dealership was I told that this car came with a branded title. Neither the dealer or the bank will step up to the plate and reimburse me for the payments I have made or the improvements I made to the vehicle; tires-$829, alignment - $89, trans/diff service - $178, front brake job - $342 etc. and there is more I have not listed.

I am taking the day off tomorrow to go car shopping. Oh fun, getting a tooth drilled or car shopping, choices choices...

Come on Mazda, you can do better than this..

broadband2,

I don't think this is a "buyer beware" situation. I believe there are laws about dealers selling cars saying the title was clean but the title is actually not clean. I would expect you to have to sign a waiver before buying such a car.

While I normally don't suggest this, I would suggest you consult a lawyer.

During the week of May26th this year I bought what I was told was a off lease 2004 RX8 GT with 27K miles on it. It was loaded with everything from a local dealer here in the Seattle area. The vehicle on a scale of 1-10 was a 9, no chips in the paint anywhere, and the interior and all of the accessories; NAV, Bose system worked great, everything seemed perfect. It did need the normal wear items replaced. Prior to consumating the deal I ran a CarFax on it and it came up clean, no problems as all.

This last Tuesday August 12th, 2008 I received a call from the bank I had chosen to finance the small balance I owed on the vehicle, The woman calling said there was a problem with the RX8 I had purchased. She said the bank had received the title from the State of Idaho DMV office in Boise on Monday, August 11th, 2008 and the Idaho title came back as a "branded" title. She went on to explain that a branded title was issued on a vehicle that had been purchased back by the manufacturer so as not to have it go back under a "lemon Law" claim. She stated further that the bank would not finance any type of questionable titled vehicle and unfortunately this came under that heading. I asked for and received a fax copy of the title, with the previous owners name blanked out, and there was no mistake the VIN on the title was in fact the vehicle I had purchased eight weeks ago.

I then called the dealer and spoke to the used car manager and he was aware of the situation and said it was a error on their part as the vehicle had been purchased at the local vehicle auction and they were not told it had a "branded" title when they purchased it. They did say they would replace it with a vehicle that was similar and we could work out the details.

On Wednesday, August 13th, 2008 my insurance company called and said that they had been notified by my bank that the vehicle I had purchased was a "buy-back" or branded vehicle and they would not insure it due to the fact there was no disclosure on what exactly was wrong with the vehicle and exactly who fixed it and due to liability issues I had four (4) weeks to turn it back to the dealer and/or find another vehicle to purchase. He went on to say I would be receiving a letter from them stating I had until a specific date and/or the insurance would be cancelled.

So the moral of this story is this; I read the other postings in this thread about "Mazda not selling" these vehicles, don't fool yourself, it happens.

Needless to say I am pissed off to the hilt about this and I will be filing a complaint with the Washington State Attorney General's office over this mess. Why you might add? At no time during the two visits I made to this dealership was I told that this car came with a branded title. Neither the dealer or the bank will step up to the plate and reimburse me for the payments I have made or the improvements I made to the vehicle; tires-$829, alignment - $89, trans/diff service - $178, front brake job - $342 etc. and there is more I have not listed.

I am taking the day off tomorrow to go car shopping. Oh fun, getting a tooth drilled or car shopping, choices choices...

Come on Mazda, you can do better than this..

Tell them what $$ you want back from their mistake or you will take them to court or call Mazda USA. Take them to small claims if Mazda USA wont help you. Get copies of everything for court or MUSA to see.

Don't worry about it you are making a big deal.

The dealer said he would seel you a comparable car. If you want an RX 8 and he doesn't have one then get your money back and buy one from a member here.

I would threaten them with getting a lawyer and with reporting them to the state's attorney general in order to get the money for the repairs that you made. You are owed not just a comparable car at the contracted price, but you are also owed the money back for the repairs you made.

Tell them that if they don't make you whole for what you have spent on reliance of their fraud, you will see them in court and file a criminal fraud allegation with the police. I mean come on. It was a branded title. They saw it before they sold it to you. It's a slam dunk in court. Get your money back.

You can always ask the dealer to find you the same financing.

Seems like you love the car.

so buy-back cars don't have *clear* titles then? i found such a car and in carfax it clearly states what happened. it has very very low miles and can probably be had quite cheaply. i don't mind that the original owner took the buy-back but if the title is a lemon title, then i'd think twice...

holy thread ressurection.

I am only on here because I kept getting emails from the club even though I gave my car back in probably Oct 2003. But thought my reasons might be helpful to someone. I loved and still love to death how that car looked. A red GT. Amazing, will never get looks like that again from any car I will ever drive. BUT, the six speed had what I thought was a really short and tempermental 1st gear. That, and at 6'2", I just found I was too tall for the car as my head was rubbing the ceiling. Darn that sunroof. And the mileage was the killer with me, I was getting 12 mpg at the best. That left a sting and I didnt like the fraud aspect of that. So one of the best days of my life was when I got that letter in the mail. I garaged it until I turned it in because I was afraid as heck of scratching or getting into a fender bender. The only thing I did was take it out the night before and drive the freaking heck out of it for about an hour to hit 100 and see how it handled. Not abusive, just having fun.

Anyway, I had some time to waste. Love the car, I just couldnt keep it for those reasons. I thought it would be very very popular where I live in Bakersfield yet I see one maybe every month and thats it. If I win the lottery and get a third car garage, I will get an automatic red with no sun roof in a heartbeat.

A solution to the "branded" title RX8 I bought was worked out this last Friday, August 15th.

At a meeting Friday night I met with the general manager and used car manager of the dealership where I purchased the original RX8. I believe now, after seeing all of the paperwork they had on the RX8, they in fact did not know the vehicle was a "buy-back" or had a "branded" title. None of the paperwork I was shown had any indication that it was in fact branded. The copy of the title they had received from the State of Idaho did not have the indication it was branded. Remember the copy that I received from my bank that they had just received from the State of Idaho in the past two weeks did indicate it was branded.

The one thing that was disturbing was the fact that in the paperwork was a complete repair/warranty history for the RX8 the dealer had printed out on the RX8 I had originally purchased showing it had the entire engine replaced three times in nine months and the transmission replaced once during that period of time also. That's a bit much considering the speedometer had only 27K miles on it.

A couple of things; before going down to the dealership I prudently decided to see what they would come up with as a solution for this mess, I decided to go down with a open mind and to just listen to what they had to say and what their solution was. And to answer one of the questions that may have popped up in your minds: at no time during the first RX8 verhicle purchase process was it stated this was a problem vehicle or was I asked to sign a waiver/disclosure stating it was branded/salvage/rebuilt.

They next tried to offer me another vehicle; a 2007 Mustang GT. No thank you, I appreciated the offer but the "fun" factor just isn't there as much as it is in a RX8.

Any way they came up with a 2006 RX8 as a replacement for the one I just turned back in for the same price from another dealer. We went to the other dealership, I drove it for about two hours and the used car manager consumated the deal with them and drove the second RX8 back to their dealership. It is the same color and has less miles, 18K. They also stepped up to the plate and did the following things to the "NEW" RX8: did a alignment job on it (the tires were feathered on the edge on the front), put four new Dunlop tires on it, swapped the K&N air filter, new brake pads all around, changed out the MP3 dongle add on I had installed on the radio, and reimbursed me for the red/black Wheelskins cover on the steering wheel.

The general manager and used car manager were cordial and took care of the problem, how refreshing that is in this day and age where usually it a complete battle to have anyone take responsibility.

I got the car with everything done Saturday afternoon and immediately took off for Portland, I wanted to make sure everything was right with the way it ran. Went down to Portland and stayed the night and came back up Sunday morning with no problems, A/C was cold, and everything worked. I averaged 25.1mpg down and back at 75mph. Not bad...

This local dealer has made me a definite return customer because of their attention to my problem and the solution they came up with without any pressure from me.

I am glad I listened first and did not explode prematurely... Problem solved..
This dealership is a credit to the Mazda family. I will be writing a letter to the owner of the dealership thanking him and his staff for the way this was handled.

It sounds like they made you whole. I am glad that you and they handled the situation so responsibly. I am also glad to hear that they respected the repairs that you had made to the car by making repairs to your new used car. Good job all around and congratulations on your new 8! Drive it well.

glad to hear everything worked out. not all car dealerships are out there to make a dirty buck as it is proven here by yours. I have a similar story with a past certified used but i will not jack the thread or topic since it is not in regards to an 8. My only point being again, there are creditable car dealerships and a reason why my last 4 cars have come from that dealership.

Mind sharing which dealership is that?

Excellent Dude you handled it correctly. Enjoy...

Ok, I have to chime in.. Sounds to me that the original car had bad owners. I mean, come on?! Three engines and a transmission??

also, I was told by a GSM of a local dealer that Mazda routinely buys RX-8's back from whiney bitchy customers because its cheaper to do that than to keep paying out all the bogus warranty complaints that the dumbshits keep creating.

I will say this again.. This car is not for everyone. MANY people that buy this have NO IDEA what its all about... They buy it and go grocery shopping. These people should be relegated to Toyota Corollas for the rest of thier lives as thats what suits them the best. A do nothing, think nothing, haven't a clue about anything kind of car.