Ok this is the second time this has happened to me. I’m cruising at a relatively high speed around 80-100 mph, and take the car out of 6th gear and cruise in neutral. Then I watch as the rpms drop to 1,000 and then the to zero and all my warning lights turn on (battery light, power steering, CEL, ect.) and the motor just dies. Radio is still on, still have power steering and stuff I guess, but I rev the motor and can’t hear it or see the rpms go up. The car is basically like in accessory mode right before you crank the car to turn it on. Then I put it back into gear, and the car comes back on and all the warning lights turn off ( CEL, Battery, PS, DSC, ect.) Frankly, the first time I did this, it scared the shit out of me. But all I have to do is put it back in gear and the car comes back. This also only happens above 80 mph I believe, cause I would test it at various speeds for the same results, and at above 80 it would do it consistently the two times it happened. But at like 60 mph or lower, its fine in neutral. Obviously, something is wrong with my car, and I was wondering if anyone else had this problem or is it just me? Hopefully it’s just me and not a big deal, so anyone else get this or know what could be wrong?

You should get this checked out (get thee to a dealer!), but why would anyone put their car in neutral while driving down the highway? That seems like a silly thing to do.

Originally posted by jtimbck2
You should get this checked out (get thee to a dealer!), but why would anyone put their car in neutral while driving down the highway? That seems like a silly thing to do.

I dunno... Save gas? :confused: I dont do it often usually, only sometimes like at this one part of the freeway on the 2 frwy going home, which has like a five mile down hill strech of highway. I usually just get up to about 80 mph and take it out of gear and cruise the whole way down at the same speed. I never really thought about it being wierd and that it might save me some gas and put less strain on the car keeping it at a low RPM at a high speed. Am I the only one that does this? But nevertheless, the car shouldnt be doing this, and it never happen to my RX-7 or any other MT cars that I have driven too.

Not just silly, downright stupid. What happens if you need to accelerate quickly to avoid an accident... if you're sitting in neutral you're up shit creek without a paddle (knee deep in swamp mud for you yanks).

Originally posted by sco
Not just silly, downright stupid. What happens if you need to accelerate quickly to avoid an accident... if you're sitting in neutral you're up shit creek without a paddle (knee deep in swamp mud for you yanks).

Obviously if Im cruising at 90 mph on a 5 mile downhill open highway, there arent going too many cars on the road, and if Im already going 90 mph, why the hell do I need to accelerate even more, mate? Im pretty sure I'm already going fast enough. If anything I need to use the freaking brakes, not speed up even more to increase my chances from not walking away from a collision :o . Besides that, its a freaking MT, going into any gear is only a few inches up or down.... I dunno about you, but I can get into gear pretty quickly if need be. You always get out of gear and pass neutral to upshift or downshift anyways. Maybe you forgot about that :) .

doing 100mph in neutral is just plain idiotic, period. You have no control of the car at that point if you have to make a quick manuever to avoid a car, animal, pothole, etc. And saying you do this to save gas isn't the smartest thing either. Maybe if it were possible to go down a hill that was 10 miles long, then you would see a difference in gas savings. but the length of time of any normal hill isn't enough to to think that you putting it in neutral will produce savings in gas.

don't know where you learned this, but I would advise to not do it.

Originally posted by Crashunit
Obviously if Im cruising at 90 mph on a 5 mile downhill open highway, there arent going too many cars on the road, and if Im already going 90 mph, why the hell do I need to accelerate even more, mate? Im pretty sure I'm already going fast enough. If anything I need to use the freaking brakes, not speed up even more to increase my chances from not walking away from a collision :o . Besides that, its a freaking MT, going into any gear is only a few inches up or down.... I dunno about you, but I can get into gear pretty quickly if need be. You always get out of gear and pass neutral to upshift or downshift anyways. Maybe you forgot about that :) .

What? You have to be joking. It is this bizarre logic that is going to not only get you killed, but you might take someone out with you. No one should be putting a car, even a MT car in N on a downhill.

Engine braking HELPS your normal disk brakes in an emergency situation. But to me it sounds like you know it all so there really is no point in discussing this with you.

When you kill some one because of your adolescent behavior, remember this thread.

Originally posted by matt
What? You have to be joking. It is this bizarre logic that is going to not only get you killed, but you might take someone out with you. No one should be putting a car, even a MT car in N on a downhill.

Engine braking HELPS your normal disk brakes in an emergency situation. But to me it sounds like you know it all so there really is no point in discussing this with you.

When you kill some one because of your adolescent behavior, remember this thread.

You're right, there's no point - he sounds like he knows it all! ;)

I'm going to show my ignorance, but could this be some kind of safety feature?

When your RPM's dip that low at that kind of speed, the car may be protecting you in case you suddenly decide to try throwing it in first or second. When you put it back in the appropriate gear or get the RPM's back to an appropriate level, it gives you power back?

Originally posted by RX8Lover
doing 100mph in neutral is just plain idiotic, period. You have no control of the car at that point if you have to make a quick manuever to avoid a car, animal, pothole, etc. And saying you do this to save gas isn't the smartest thing either. Maybe if it were possible to go down a hill that was 10 miles long, then you would see a difference in gas savings. but the length of time of any normal hill isn't enough to to think that you putting it in neutral will produce savings in gas.

don't know where you learned this, but I would advise to not do it.

First off I dunno what gives everyone the idea that I like driving around neutral all day long (which I don't), I only did it and mention it cause the car would shut off in neutral at high speeds, so I was trying to see if that was the case or not. But besides that, how does being in gear affect turning the car to the left or right? last time I checked the steering wheel and shifter are not connected.

I would agree that this may be intentional on the part of Mazda. They certainly don't expect or want people to be driving the car in neutral at high speed.

Crashunit, people may sound a little harsh, but they're just trying to help. Please don't do that anymore.

Originally posted by matt
When you kill some one because of your adolescent behavior, remember this thread.

Ha; that's the funniest quote yet!

Crashunit, I do this all the time. In my 30 years of driving I have never, ever had to accelerate to avoid an accident. I guess if it comes up now, its just my bad luck. I would guess that needing to accelerate out of a tight position is a sign you put yourself in a spot you never should have been in in the first place. Maybe its a sign of my inordinate skill that I've never been in such a spot. I have no idea.

My normal reason for coasting at high speed in neutral is if I know I will be slowing anyway up ahead. I started a thread about this once about the "right" way to slow down. It was a poll; I'll look it up tonight and post a link. While some say "By God, you gotta be in gear; use the engine to slow you down" others are equally adament in saying "Brakes are for slowing you down. What's cheaper to replace: Brakes pads, or engine/trannie? Never, ever use engine braking/compression braking/transmission braking." (it goes by many names.) I came away from that poll understanding it was all a matter of opinion and there is no right answer.

There is a stretch of hiway here, a slight upgrade with an exit ramp that I take. I approach the upgrade at 70, and if I pop into neutral I reach the ramp at 45 using no brakes/no compression; then get into 4th, cruise through the ramp; it is a very smooth and natural maneuver. As I said, I do this all the time, probably a half-dozen times a day not just at this one exit.

Originally posted by Crashunit
First off I dunno what gives everyone the idea that I like driving around neutral all day long (which I don't), I only did it and mention it cause the car would shut off in neutral at high speeds, so I was trying to see if that was the case or not. But besides that, how does being in gear affect turning the car to the left or right? last time I checked the steering wheel and shifter are not connected.

It's called passive rear-steer with engine brake drag. The only time that it does not affect the car is while under hard acceleration.

Dude, are you serious???

When you are in neutral going down a hill, you are letting gravity do the driving, not you. The car works together when you are in gear, including braking.

I never thought you drive all day long in neutral, just so you know. I just think your excuse for doing so down a hill is downright ridiculous. You probably saved a whopping 25 cents by doing what you did.

Originally posted by matt


Engine braking HELPS your normal disk brakes in an emergency situation. But to me it sounds like you know it all so there really is no point in discussing this with you.

When you kill some one because of your adolescent behavior, remember this thread.

Yes, I know engine breaking or load breaking helps you slow down the car alot faster in an emergancy situation then breaking the car in neutral. But there is no emergancy issue, and I do not drive at high speeds in neutral all day long. And explain to me how finding out my car likes to die in neutral ( the place inbetween all the gears you have to pass before you shift) is adolescent behavior?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Ha; that's the funniest quote yet!

Crashunit, I do this all the time. In my 30 years of driving I have never, ever had to accelerate to avoid an accident. I guess if it comes up now, its just my bad luck.


no..this is the funniest quote yet!

It will not just be your bad luck, it will also be the one you hit and/or kill. 30 years of driving or not, it just plain stupid.

Originally posted by Crashunit
And explain to me how finding out my car likes to die in neutral ( the place inbetween all the gears you have to pass before you shift) is adolescent behavior?

He wasn't implying that this is the reason you are expressing adolescent behavior. But the fact that we have to spell it out for you proves that you need help.

Originally posted by Crashunit
Yes, I know engine breaking or load breaking helps you slow down the car alot faster in an emergancy situation then breaking the car in neutral. But there is no emergancy issue, and I do not drive at high speeds in neutral all day long. And explain to me how finding out my car likes to die in neutral ( the place inbetween all the gears you have to pass before you shift) is adolescent behavior?

I agree that the car shutting off is an issue.

I can't understand how you keep bringing up an emergency situation when most are unexpected? What will you do with a tire blow out? And before you mention the TPM, tires still blowout with the system. What will you do if there is a car part or tire fragment on the road that you do not see?

Think of it this way:

If you don't do this stupid maneuver when you are going down a hill, the car won't ever stall and it won't ever be an issue. There's no reason to ever do what you're doing, and if this is the only time the stalling issue happens, then don't do it.

Ok, here it is (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11723&highlight=compression+AND+braking). I was mistaken about it being a poll, but I did tally up the responses. My tally was:

5 votes for engine braking
4 votes for leaving it in gear but clutch depressed
3 votes for putting in neutral and coasting

But people kept posting and I didn't keep up with the thread.

I also referenced a second thread (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3836&perpage=15&highlight=transmission%2520braking&pagenumber=1) where they discussed this, and many people agreed that coasting was absolutely fine (not unanimous.) Even Click and clack agreed, so hey, how could it be wrong?

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Think of it this way:

If you don't do this stupid maneuver when you are going down a hill, the car won't ever stall and it won't ever be an issue. There's no reason to ever do what you're doing, and if this is the only time the stalling issue happens, then don't do it.

Right, and if you never drive fast that erroneous Check Oil light will never come on. So lets all don't drive fast and stop bitching about the light. And if you don't use the a/c, it won't cycle, so all of us put our windows down. Come on....

Originally posted by matt
It's called passive rear-steer with engine brake drag. The only time that it does not affect the car is while under hard acceleration.

So your talking about steering conditions under hard braking at high speeds then? That won't hinder me from changing lanes and manuvering my car while im driving tho. That would only affect me if I was in an emergancy situation where the car was in neutral and I had to brake really hard. And if I was in a situation where I felt that would happen, I wouldnt even be going 90 mph or in neutral.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Ok, here it is (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11723&highlight=compression+AND+braking). I was mistaken about it being a poll, but I did tally up the responses. My tally was:

5 votes for engine braking
4 votes for leaving it in gear but clutch depressed
3 votes for putting in neutral and coasting

But people kept posting and I didn't keep up with the thread.

I also referenced a second thread (http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3836&perpage=15&highlight=transmission%2520braking&pagenumber=1) where they discussed this, and many people agreed that coasting was absolutely fine (not unanimous.) Even Click and clack agreed, so hey, how could it be wrong?

well then...I convinced because it's on the internet.

Let's try this.

Call or e-mail ANY driving school and ask them. Then call the CHP and ask for the VC number that states is a citable offence. I predict...

all votes for engine braking
0 votes for leaving it in gear but clutch depressed
0 votes for putting in neutral and coasting

Can we get back on F**king topic here. If he wants to drive like that then it's his decision. Geeze.

The only reason I can think the car might do this as a safety reason is so you don't lock up the rear tires if you put it in to low of a gear at high speed (nevermind the high rpm the engine will hit), other then that there may be something wrong. I'd ask/get it checked out to make sure everythings ok.

Originally posted by matt
What will you do if there is a car part or tire fragment on the road that you do not see?

I would simply steer out of the way, and not brake and hope I dont hit it. :confused:

Originally posted by Crashunit
So your talking about steering conditions under hard braking at high speeds then?

No. Try this IN SAFE conditions.

N going downhill. Do an emergency lane change.

6th going downhill. Do an emergency lane change.

Which has the most control?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Right, and if you never drive fast that erroneous Check Oil light will never come on. So lets all don't drive fast and stop bitching about the light. And if you don't use the a/c, it won't cycle, so all of us put our windows down. Come on....

I think that is quite a stretch, smart guy. Obviously if an oil light comes on, I'm not gonna ignore it. But if something happened stalling ONLY when I put the car in neutral at highway speeds, well then I wouldn't do it.

Originally posted by Crashunit
I would simply steer out of the way, and not brake and hope I dont hit it. :confused:

HOPE? I give up.

I HOPE you do not kill yourself or anyone else.

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Think of it this way:

If you don't do this stupid maneuver when you are going down a hill, the car won't ever stall and it won't ever be an issue. There's no reason to ever do what you're doing, and if this is the only time the stalling issue happens, then don't do it.

I've only done this 2 times in the RX-8 and I only did it a second time cause it turned off the first time. And your car should NEVER turn off when you are driving it, regardless of what gear you are in. And if it turns off only in neutral and you dont know the cause, what happens if it happens if you are in a gear? Then your even more fucked and then I have to think about all those emergancy situations we were talking about earlier.

Originally posted by matt
HOPE? I give up.

I HOPE you do not kill yourself or anyone else.

Ok, if there is a Truck freaking tire infront of the lane you are driving in, your telling me your going to brake for it? Oh plz, thats the type of shit that causes accidents. I said I would get out of that lane by steering, whats the better solution? Break steering out of the way? :o

Originally posted by matt
HOPE? I give up.

I HOPE you do not kill yourself or anyone else.

that's pretty funny! :D

O.k.

I called the CHP. It is a 1 point citation for driving on a downgrade while in N

it's VC 21662. Failure to hold a vehicle under control.

"it not only stupid but against the law"

Oh, ok, I guess we should all stop speeding now as well. And yeah, thats right officer, I was in neutral the whole time I was driving, you have such keen eyes. :cool: Plz, If you dont think I drive around in Neutral all day long why are you trying so hard to push on that subject?

I guess no one ever needed to know the car shuts itself off out of gear at a high speed, and I shouldnt worry about it. The car is only turning itself off, that shouldnt be more of a concern to me then cruising down the empty freeway in neutral.

I musta misread the title of this thread: "Here's How I Drive; Do You Approve?" Geez people, answer his question and stop moralizing. I got the same thing people talking about hi revs and dropping clutch and I was in their case about the dangers of street racing. Everyone got all over me and said, if you don't like street racing then read another thread, but if you're here then answer the question about dropping the clutch. so I left.

Ditto here. Regardless of your thoughts, from the thread I linked above it looks like less than use engine braking; more than half either coast with clutch in, or clutch out in neutral. So whether you like it or not, it is happening all around you and apparently we've all been in mortal danger all this time but we never knew it. Its a wonder the species has survived this long. This being the case, can we analyze the CAR not the DRIVER, and figure out why it stalls?

I would guess it's designed that way. Maybe strange that it stalls, but stranger yet that it restarts when you put it into gear. I think they did it on purpose. Could there be a lubrication issue coasting at high speed?

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
I musta misread the title of this thread: "Here's How I Drive; Do You Approve?" Geez people, answer his question and stop moralizing. I got the same thing people talking about hi revs and dropping clutch and I was in their case about the dangers of street racing. Everyone got all over me and said, if you don't like street racing then read another thread, but if you're here then answer the question about dropping the clutch. so I left.

Ditto here. Regardless of your thoughts, from the thread I linked above it looks like less than use engine braking; more than half either coast with clutch in, or clutch out in neutral. So whether you like it or not, it is happening all around you and apparently we've all been in mortal danger all this time but we never knew it. Its a wonder the species has survived this long. This being the case, can we analyze the CAR not the DRIVER, and figure out why it stalls?

I would guess it's designed that way. Maybe strange that it stalls, but stranger yet that it restarts when you put it into gear. I think they did it on purpose. Could there be a lubrication issue coasting at high speed?

I guess someone does care or wants to know why the car shuts itself off, and can actually understand why I even mentioned it.

actually, no other cars that I have driven old or new does this. And Im pretty sure the car turns itself back on because, you jump start the car when you run the altenator again.

Originally posted by matt
well then...I convinced because it's on the internet.

Let's try this.

Call or e-mail ANY driving school and ask them. Then call the CHP and ask for the VC number that states is a citable offence. I predict...

all votes for engine braking
0 votes for leaving it in gear but clutch depressed
0 votes for putting in neutral and coasting

You're telling us it is illegal to use your brakes, and we should call the CHP and ask them for the law code that states "it is illegal to use your brakes, and instead we should use engine/transmission braking." http://www.zippythepinhead.com/media/stupidity.jpg

If I'm slowing down, I pop it into neutral, coast for awhile, maybe brake, and then pop it back into the appropriate gear. If anyone can explain to me why this isn't common sense, I'd be most appreciative. Its really bad that the car dies at high speeds; I mostly use the trick of putting it in neutral at high speeds when I'm speeding up to pass, and then want to come back down to a normal speed. Coasting in neutral and then engaging the throttle and proper gear seems most natural to me.

You need to see the dealer immediately...you don't want this happening at lower speeds too. And while it seems to be really popular to respond to posts with "let us know where to send the flowers" and the like, I have this to say: while mazda may not want you shifting for first at 80mph, they have to assume you're iq is below 3, and you have the ability to JAM IT IN TO FIRST AT 80 MPH, in the first place. This response yields to nothing short of the conclusion that we should all drive on tracks.

Get a clue please. Its his car. He does it, I do it, no one can tell me its 'wrong' mechanically, so please, we need to address this before the car actually does cause us to send flowers to him :(

Originally posted by cumpressor4u2nv
You're telling us it is illegal to use your brakes, and we should call the CHP and ask them for the law code that states "it is illegal to use your brakes, and instead we should use engine/transmission braking."

No. It's illegal to have your car in Netural on a downgrade.

Stay in school and learn to read.

^^^^

would you mind showing the documentation on that?

nevermind, i'll take your word since you resorted to personal insults.

edit: and perhaps you can show where my reading of his post was wrong? asshat.

Originally posted by matt
No. It's illegal to have your car in Netural on a downgrade.

Stay in school and learn to read.

So what if its illegal? Your car shouldnt penalize you by shutting itself off for that. How would you like it if the car turned off for every traffic violation you did? Im sure you'd get into a hell of alot more accidents then having the car in neutral.

Ok this thread is going to end up locked now, cause people cant just keep it to whats relavent anymore. If I wanted to be lectured for putting the RX-8 into neutral, I would have asked or posted on it. If you want to continue on that subject, go start another thread and I would be happy to join it. As for now, I just want to know why my damn car shuts itself off.

Does your "damn" car shut off when you aren't coasting downhill in neutral?

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Does your "damn" car shut off when you aren't coasting downhill in neutral?

No, the damn car doesnt.

Originally posted by RX8Lover
Think of it this way:

There's no reason to ever do what you're doing, and if this is the only time the stalling issue happens, then don't do it.

I forgot to mention this since we are talking about extreme situations:

What do you advise to do when the throttle cable or gas pedal gets stuck open, while you are driving on the freeway?

Since, the car should never be put into neutral while driving, I guess you would say just break really hard and steer out of the way. :o

there's your answer. the reason no one else has the problem you are having is because no one goes into neutral the way you do.

think about that. that is why this thread has gone the direction it has. there is no real reason to do what you're doing..the only argument you or anyone has for doing it is "well, it's car, so he can do whatever he wants". That's an answer? Because you WANT to? That's not a reason.

See my qoute above and answer it for me plz.

Originally posted by cumpressor4u2nv
^^^^

would you mind showing the documentation on that?

nevermind, i'll take your word since you resorted to personal insults.

edit: and perhaps you can show where my reading of his post was wrong? asshat.

"You're telling us it is illegal to use your brakes, and we should call the CHP and ask them for the law code that states "it is illegal to use your brakes, and instead we should use engine/transmission braking."

I am not tell you "asshat", the CHP is. I NEVER stated that is illegal to use your brakes, the CHP says is illegal to have your can in N on a down grade. I gave the VC in a thread "hence the learn to read comment"

Originally posted by matt
O.k.

I called the CHP. It is a 1 point citation for driving on a downgrade while in N

it's VC 21662. Failure to hold a vehicle under control.

"it not only stupid but against the law"


Here's the post in case you cannot figure out the back button.

Originally posted by Crashunit
I dunno... Save gas?

Put it in 6th gear -- that will help you save gas while avoiding all the negatives of putting it in neutral that have been mentioned here.

Originally posted by Crashunit
See my qoute above and answer it for me plz.

OK, now you're talking a reason that involves you saving money on gas versus a reason that involves a panic situation.

Obviously if your gas pedal is sticking, a last resort solution would be to put the car in neutral and then PULL OVER IMMEDIATELY. But that's not what you're talking about. You're saying that going downhill you throw it in neutral to improve gas mileage, and to also continue driving. These are two VERY different situations, and the latter is not what you originally were referring to.

Your argument is laughable. :D

Guys,
Whether coasting is stupid or not is irrelevant.

No car should shut off in this case. It does make sense that it starts back up, all cars do that, its called jump starting. At high gear and speeds, the jumpstart is very smooth.

(I used to have a car that could not maintain idle very well and would stall out when in neutral or with the clutch engaged. I got very good at roll starting it).

Your engine shouldn't die in that (stupid or not ;) ) situation; you should have it checked at the dealer. Can you duplicate it by revving the car when standing still - hold the revs at 4K or 4.5K for a while (30 sec), then lift off the gas and see if it dies? I know the ECU is too smart and has speed inputs and so on, but it's one test to help diagnose the problem.

A couple of other comments - re slowing down, and engine braking vs. coasting. There's a difference between just letting off the gas in gear vs. downshifting to engine brake, which is what part of those discussions was about. I'd bet that most people will coast IN GEAR, vs. downshifting (bad plan) vs. coasting. Ie, if you're driving in 6th gear at 3000 rpm and you see a stop light ahead, you just let off the gas in 6th gear until the revs drop to 1500 or so, then downshift or neutral.

FWIW, you won't save gas by going to neutral to coast - the engine requires fuel to idle. When you are in gear (above 1500 rpm) and completely remove your foot from the accelerator, the fuel injectors actually are shut off, the engine is not burning ANY fuel when you coast IN GEAR. It is burning fuel if you're in neutral and the engine is idling. If you want to save fuel on those downhill grades, leave the car in gear.

Regards,
Gordon

I don't know whether anyone anwered the original question as I blew through the four pages of responses rather quickly.

Does the Renesis employ a Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor as part of the intake system?

If so, and the intake of air by the engine is suddenly reduced (shifting into neutral) while fresh air is still being delivered to the MAF at the rate associated with 90mph (ram air effect), this results in an extreme change in air flow and causes the MAF to trigger a corresponding change in fuel delivery to the injectors which usually results in a stall.

Just my $0.02 worth...:) Art

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
FWIW, you won't save gas by going to neutral to coast - the engine requires fuel to idle. When you are in gear (above 1500 rpm) and completely remove your foot from the accelerator, the fuel injectors actually are shut off, the engine is not burning ANY fuel when you coast IN GEAR. It is burning fuel if you're in neutral and the engine is idling. If you want to save fuel on those downhill grades, leave the car in gear.

What is this? An engineering answer to an engineering question? Say it ain't so! Thanks for trying to take the emotion out of it, Gordon.

Well, I too have coasted sometimes in N on a long mile downhill stretch but my car has never stalled. I wasn't going that 80+ mph though.

Didn't know that this was citable.

It's also good to know what to do if that situation would ever occur to me!

Regarding crashunit's car - I'd definitely bring it to the dealer. It's a bug, not a feature.

-Peter

Thank you for finally answering my question, and concerns everyone. I figured it was not normal and something I should get checked out. I did a search on this topic before I posted of course, and because the car has less then 2 k on it still, I just wanted to bring this to the forums attention incase it ever happens to someone else. I didnt post about it to ask if coasting in neutral was bad or not. But, apparently some people have almost a serious religion problem with the tabbo of coasting in neutral. So sorry to offend you guys with the way I drive "My Car." Anyways, hopefully like I said before, its just an iscolated incident and not a ecu bug or something. Cause its already throwing up enough ECLs, TPMs, Oil Warnings, and stealing more then enough feul to make me happy with it. I will take it to the dealer and see what they say, and post with the results.

Maybe not a religion, but a cult. That's why I took a poll a few months back. When this topic comes up, one camp will dominate saying "Use the brakes to brake, not the engine." Next time, a competing cult will dominate, saying "Save your breaks; keep it in gear down to 1500 rpms." This particular go-round was a bit bloodier than those in the past, but in the end no more definitive. As you say, it is your car; drive it as you damn well please. You certainly got more flack for this valid question than the punks who are sharing tips how to take off from red lights to show that Z in the next lane who's badder. On balance, I would feel much safer having you drive in my neighborhood than the punks, yet I didn't see any moralizing on their thread (other than myself, and I left when no one else jumped to my defense.)

Good luck. Your new "handle" is Coaster!

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Maybe not a religion, but a cult. That's why I took a poll a few months back. When this topic comes up, one camp will dominate saying "Use the brakes to brake, not the engine." Next time, a competing cult will dominate, saying "Save your breaks; keep it in gear down to 1500 rpms." This particular go-round was a bit bloodier than those in the past, but in the end no more definitive. As you say, it is your car; drive it as you damn well please. You certainly got more flack for this valid question than the punks who are sharing tips how to take off from red lights to show that Z in the next lane who's badder. On balance, I would feel much safer having you drive in my neighborhood than the punks, yet I didn't see any moralizing on their thread (other than myself, and I left when no one else jumped to my defense.)

Good luck. Your new "handle" is Coaster!

Haha, thanks, I was meaning to actually reply to you, but I was caught up having to defend my own post to keep it on topic. Luckily it did, and I actually got a PM thanking me about bringing it to the forums attention believe it or not. Apparently its some what a concern your car shuts off by itself. This just happened to me a second time last night, so I thought I would post about it in the morning to get some replies,which was a rally bad Idea. Since, I am then welcomed to "nuetral Nazi's" who I have to spend 4 pages of irrelevance with, till I got some decent replies. But whatevers, you learn something everyday, and for me, its never to post in the morning again ;) .

Originally posted by matt
I called the CHP. It is a 1 point citation for driving on a downgrade while in N. it's VC 21662. Failure to hold a vehicle under control. "it not only stupid but against the law"

Ok, straight to the source:

"Mountain Driving

21662. The driver of a motor vehicle traveling through defiles or canyons or upon mountain highways shall hold the motor vehicle under control at all times and shall do the following when applicable:

(a) If the roadway has no marked centerline, the driver shall drive as near the right-hand edge of the roadway as is reasonably possible.

(b) If the roadway has insufficient width to permit a motor vehicle to be driven entirely to the right of the center of the roadway, the driver shall give audible warning with the horn of the motor vehicle upon approaching any curve where the view is obstructed within a distance of 200 feet along the highway. "

So first of all, a downgrade on an interstate is not "mountain driving", so the rule isn't applicable in this case. Secondly, define "under control." Coaster met the reqts of paras (a) and (b) which really aren't relevant in the instant case, besides which he was under control. What if you're coasting in gear but your foot off the pedal. ARe you any less "in control?" Would this be punitive under 21662? Get real.

Referece for the above, from
Cal DMV web site (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21662.htm). Sorry, matt, the officer was just giving you a line so he could get you off the phone and back to his donuts. Next time, do a little authoritative research.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
Ok, straight to the source:

"Mountain Driving

21662. The driver of a motor vehicle traveling through defiles or canyons or upon mountain highways shall hold the motor vehicle under control at all times and shall do the following when applicable:

(a) If the roadway has no marked centerline, the driver shall drive as near the right-hand edge of the roadway as is reasonably possible.

(b) If the roadway has insufficient width to permit a motor vehicle to be driven entirely to the right of the center of the roadway, the driver shall give audible warning with the horn of the motor vehicle upon approaching any curve where the view is obstructed within a distance of 200 feet along the highway. "

So first of all, a downgrade on an interstate is not "mountain driving", so the rule isn't applicable in this case. Secondly, define "under control." Coaster met the reqts of paras (a) and (b) which really aren't relevant in the instant case, besides which he was under control. What if you're coasting in gear but your foot off the pedal. ARe you any less "in control?" Would this be punitive under 21662? Get real.

Referece for the above, from
Cal DMV web site (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21662.htm). Sorry, matt, the officer was just giving you a line so he could get you off the phone and back to his donuts. Next time, do a little authoritative research.

Yeah, Im sorry, I dont have the slightest clue where you got coasting in neutral meant you are completely out of control. If that ever happened to me, I would never have done it! I only did it cause it was convenient to do so imo. Maybe if you ever try it, you will see it is not all that bad, and I am not jeopardizing my life in doing so. But thanks for your concern I guess.

Well done 8_wannabe! When I asked matt for some proof, he just refered me back to his original claim, and I was too busy to look it up myself, and frankly, didn't care about some asinine law on the books that has no practical implications.

In anycase, its funny that matt stopped posted after his asshatted-ness has been confirmed :)

but..i do disagree with this: "You certainly got more flack for this valid question than the punks who are sharing tips how to take off from red lights to show that Z in the next lane who's badder. On balance, I would feel much safer having you drive in my neighborhood than the punks, yet I didn't see any moralizing on their thread (other than myself, and I left when no one else jumped to my defense.)"

The question was about launches and starting at higher speeds. Lets be practical, what does launching very rarely have to do with morality. This is a sports car, and obviously noahprtlnd's is equpied w/ a manual tranmission, meaning he has the *ability* to launch at 6000-7000 rpm.

Don't tell me that majority of people here don't get the urge to drive their car hard. For me, the funnest part of driving hard is actually when there isn't anyone ANYWHERE around. For noahprtlnd's post, I gathered that he wanted to autocross, and wanted to know *before* trying it what the car would do, so he would be ready, and therefore *NOT* risk harming himself or others. Knowledge is power, as TV tells you.

You're reflecting some image you have of the modified honda kiddies running around your neighborhood + the fast and the furious sect that you seem to think was the impetus of noahprtlnd posting. As a matter of fact, that Punk holds an M.D. :)

Life isn't binary. And, rightly so, aren't morals.

Have you ever been blasted with a gust of wind while driving? If that happened at 90 mph in neutral and you countersteered, what do you suppose the chances are of the rear end continuing downhill while you are correcting right. Bad situation. If you never have to turn while coasting, then you will be fine, but is it worth the chance? These cars do not have 4 wheel steering. When you turn the wheel, only the front turns - not the rears. Depending on the road surface, rate of turn, etc., you could put yourself into a spin - especially with no GO available to help correct any oversteer.
In any case, the car should not stop running in neutral - ever.

Hi Crashunit,
First let me address your question, your problem with the engine shutting off by itself could be related to Fuel Starvation. There were some cases here where people reported their engine unexpectedly shuts off when they are running low and they think it could be Fuel Starvation. Do you remember how much fuel you got in your tank when your engine died on you ?

In any case please take your car to the dealers as this quite seriously I think. On the note of saving gas. I would suggest maybe just putting your car in 6th gear, you will probably get the same result. This is because the 6th is actually a Over drive gear, meaning per engine revolution, the wheel spins one revolution and a little bit ( 1.19 wheel revolution per engine rev to be exact). So therefore when going down a slope, the amount of engine "braking" with your foot off the gas should be minimal.

Give it a try and see which way feels smoother for you.

Originally posted by matt
What? You have to be joking. It is this bizarre logic that is going to not only get you killed, but you might take someone out with you. No one should be putting a car, even a MT car in N on a downhill.

Engine braking HELPS your normal disk brakes in an emergency situation. But to me it sounds like you know it all so there really is no point in discussing this with you.

When you kill some one because of your adolescent behavior, remember this thread.

Wow! :p
Harsh, illogical and gratuitous - all in one post. Good job Matt. Like some fries with that?

Engine braking will not improve your breaking ability at all. If you are talking about the vacuum assist, it will hold vacuum for HOURS without additional help.
CrashUnit's behaviour is neither adolescent not does he seem to be a "know-it-all" anymore than you do by this post.

That said, most states do have a law specifically against coasting more than 500 feet in neutral. It is mostly about culpability in an accident than actual safety.

Moreover - fuel consumption is about pedal position. If you leave the motor in gear and your foot off of the gas, you will consume LESS gas during that period because your motor consumes a small amount of fuel as it idles, but consumes NONE during engine braking because the fuel delivery is cut as part of the "anti-bucking" routine written in the ECU code during zero TPS output at elevated RPMS (over 1700).
In short, if you are moving:
neutral + foot off gas = idle fuel consumption
in gear + foot off gas = no fuel consumption

Your choice, but it isn't adolescent.
Adolescent is pulling the e-brake at those speeds.:p

Harsh, illogical and gratuitous - all in one post. Good job Matt. Like some fries with that?

I tried for the hat trick! :)

Fries are bad for you. Too much fat ;)

Ugh. Everyone calm down, take a deep breath, and type in a polite manner.

This is one of the funniest threads I've read in a while. I really wouldn't care if driving down a hill in neutral is illegal or not, or if it saves gas or not, I wouldn't do it because it's bad for the motor. While a vehicle is running at idle the oil pressure is at it's lowest, mechanics will tell you not to let your car idle for long periods of time. If you're coasting downhill in neutral often I'd be a bit worried about the longevity of your motor.

So after all this bickering did the question get answered? lol. I read the first page and it was just UN-NEED bitchin i didnt even read the next couple pages. gez.

well I dontknow much about rx8s I have a secdon gen 7 but what i do know is when you put it back in gear while doing 80 and the car starts back up . Thats basically like rolling your car and poping the clutch to get the engine started. THats normal especialy if you have the key in the ON position. but for the car to die out like that... hmmm. I duno. thats just not good.

Justin -

Coasting down hill in neutral isnt going to hurt your motor AT ALL. your in neutral..the engine isnt turning the tranny. OR i should say the tranny isnt turnning the engine. Oil pressure would be low cause the rpm is probubly down near 800rpm. The engine dones't even know your coasting. all it knows is that its idling as if it was idling in your driveway.

Justin

hi everybody!! how have you been? anyway i just thought i would speak up on this. i noticed a few people suggested going to a dealer. this will not work. the reason is the speed. no dealer will test drive your car at that speed. no matter what. i would be very surprised if you found a dealer wiling to drive that fast. and since it does not happen at lower speeds. i think you are sol with this one. but please post if you do a find a dealer that wil test drive a vehicle over the posted speed limit. and before flaming this rememeber the mechanic has to follow the laws of the road if he wants to work, besides i really dont think any dealer wil allowan employee to drive that fast because it could also cause an accident. i work at a mazda/mits dealer and yes we do have some customer teling us things happen at high speeds and no we do not test the vehicles, we go the posted soeed limit and if it hapens it happens. so i just recomend to stop putting it in nuetral at that speed and just take your foot of the gas pedal. it would be safer for everybody!!

I dont know why mazda dealers dont have a dyno.. Theyould figure our so many problems if theyhad one. Its stupid. But I dont want to turn this thread into a fighting war like it was earlier.. oooff

Justin

Originally posted by ibfubar2000
i noticed a few people suggested going to a dealer. this will not work. the reason is the speed. no dealer will test drive your car at that speed. no matter what. i would be very surprised if you found a dealer wiling to drive that fast. and since it does not happen at lower speeds. i think you are sol with this one. but please post if you do a find a dealer that wil test drive a vehicle over the posted speed limit. and before flaming this rememeber the mechanic has to follow the laws of the road if he wants to work, besides i really dont think any dealer wil allowan employee to drive that fast because it could also cause an accident. i work at a mazda/mits dealer and yes we do have some customer teling us things happen at high speeds and no we do not test the vehicles, we go the posted soeed limit and if it hapens it happens.

Okay, I'm sorry to continue the animosity in this thread and other similar ones, and am sorry that ibfubar is an example here - but I am sooooooo tired of the f*cking policing going on in this SPORTS CAR forum! This is not the Buick Park Avenue forum...and I know ibfubar was just giving a view of someone that works at a dealership, but its just an example of the kind of crap people are posting on this forum in response to simple questions regarding their car. Guess what? some of us bought a $30000+ SPORTScar and want to drive it as such. I don't know if some of you lost people close to you in accidents and so are sensitive about the subject, or what. But get over it. People will drive however they want - if they get a ticket, that's their problem and it was their decision to speed/drop the clutch/put it in neutral or whatever else they choose to do with the car they bought. Please spare us the Nader taking someone innocent routine. Start a Road Safety forum if that's what you want to talk about.

Listen amigos. First off:

Why isnt the governor at 70mph? WTF. The dealer MUST acknowledge the problem with the car, regardless of the *law* on public streets. You can drive as fast as you like on your own property/track if you are so lucky to have one, and the dealer cannot claim that the reason s/he won't fix your problem is because to find it would be going too fast. The point of reporting it is so it goes to mazda, and if they've had this problem in other cars, and have a solution, crash can get the problem solved :P

Good luck crash old boy.

And why would a dealer have a dyno. What good would it serve, and what problems would it solve?

And to noahprtlnd: I'll decide soon whether you're an asshat. But you make a great point. ;)

S'cuze me while I hitch up my hipwaders.... it a-gettin' deep in here.

Originally posted by cumpressor4u2nv

And why would a dealer have a dyno. What good would it serve, and what problems would it solve?

Actually, the shop procedures often call for a dyno for some of the diagnostics to be done correctly.
Most dealers opt for a portable WDC (i.e. - laptop) and datalog instead a chassis dyno. Somewhat cheaper and takes up less floor space that could be filled with other vehicles getting improper service and making obscenely big bucks.

The dealer is closed tomorrow, since it is Thanksgiving, so I will probably bring in the car on Friday. I have a really good relationship with the Alhambra Mazda dealership cause of my 3rd gen FD, and everyone at the service and parts department know me. I am sure they will get to the bottom of this for me, and help me fix it or find out why. If they do take the RX-8 up to that type of speed or not, shouldn’t matter, if its a problem they should just call higher up till someone at headquarters or engineering knows why it is doing this. And if it is really a problem where a lot of people are complaining about it, I’m sure they could just take one of the company's RX-8 out to the Mazda proving grounds where they can test it in a closed and safe track facility.

Besides this, however, I just spoke to one of my friend who has a G35, and oddly enough owners are having the exact same problem with the G35 as well. Plus, to make it even more bizarre, the thread on it started out just like mine :) . With people bickering, people being stupid, and not answering the question or keeping it on topic. Supposedly though, the G35 owner's car would die between a slow shift when he was in neutral. I guess in our cars, the tach takes quite awhile to drop and rise thru RPM's, while the G35 drops a lot faster and just dies out, till he pops the car back into gear.

As stated before, " No car should just turn off by itself, no matter what the circumstances are." Its just too dangerous, and impossible to be safety feature on a car. And even if it was, dealers and companies should defiantly warn its customers the car is capable of turning off by itself while in motion. Even if it doesn’t do anything really to cause an accident initially, just seeing the car die, is quite a shock, and freaking out and doing something stupid could really hurt someone unfamiliar with a car. Luckily for me (or unluckily), I have had a car die on me while in motion before, so it wasn’t too big of a shock that I didn’t know how to react to it. But I guess, since I have brought it to everyone’s attention already and I don’t want people to panic if it happens to them, just remember to pop it back into gear. The car will still be running, and brakes will still work like normal, so don’t freak out. The only thing you wont be able to do unless you get back into gear to turn the car on again, is you will not get any power from the motor to speed up. Your DCS will also be turned off while this happens, but steering feel and brake feel, will remain the same as if it didn’t turn off. Hope that helps. I really want to get to the bottom of this, so I will post again soon if I find out anything else.

- Marvin

Originally posted by Crashunit
... oddly enough G35 owners are having the exact same problem. Plus, to make it even more bizarre, the thread on it started out just like mine. With people bickering, people being stupid, and not answering the question or keeping it on topic.

As stated before, " No car should just turn off by itself, no matter what the circumstances are." Its just too dangerous, and impossible to be safety feature on a car. And even if it was, dealers and companies should defiantly warn its customers the car is capable of turning off by itself while in motion. Even if it doesn’t do anything really to cause an accident initially, just seeing the car die, is quite a shock, and freaking out and doing something stupid could really hurt someone unfamiliar with a car.

Nice to hear RX8 owners haven't cornered the market on stupidity and rudeness. ;)

As far as "No car should just turn off by itself, no matter what the circumstances are" I guess the sole exception is fuel cutout. Of course, it is well-documented and no one shoud rev an 8 without being familiar with the car, meaning you should know and expect that fuel cutout will occur. It is predictable, unlike your expererience. I have only done it twice, both times purposefully, and even though I expected it is still somewhat of a shock.

Originally posted by 8_wannabe
S'cuze me while I hitch up my hipwaders.... it a-gettin' deep in here.

http://www.luhring-design.com/photography/series/shut-up/shut-up-statement.jpg

Just get back from our Thanksgiving trek to visit the parents, and find this thread waiting for my response.

My daily work commute takes me over a little mountain. One way the neutral cruise speed is 60 mph for 2 miles, and the other direction for 1-1/2 miles, finally reaching 90 mph.

No stalls here, and my neutral cruizing will continue. Thank you for your support.:p

Wow! I'm surprised at the amount of vitriol about coasting. My take on a few points:

1 - The Cal. vehicle code does not seem to apply, and furthermore how in the world is anyone ever going to get cited for "being in neutral"? I realize the 8 has a large tach, but geez :)

2 - Even assuming fuel drops to zero coasting in gear, neutral coasting could still be more efficient. By coasting in gear you're slowing the vehicle and will have to get back on the gas much sooner. I've driven some routes where you can coast for 2 or 3 miles in neutral - it all depends on the situation.

3 - it takes no longer to get into gear from neutral than from any other gear. I just don't get the "danger" aspect.

I don't see anything wrong with coasting and I'll do it when the grade is accomodating -- meaning a long stretch with sufficient grade to maintain speed but not so steep that speed gets too high. I don't really do it for fuel savings, but more to experience that quiet world-driven speed that is somewhat like being in a sailplane. I wouldn't do it in heavy traffic simply because there are bound to be some speed changes. But on a lightly travelled highway I don't think it's a problem. If I have a need to be in gear I'm back in gear with a flick of the wrist.

I do agree that it's going to be hard to get a dealer to address the issue if it's presented as "the car stalls if I put it in neutral and coast at 85 mph". I would be trying to replicate the problem in other conditions - what happens if you do this at 65 in a lower gear with same rpm - dropping from 4500 rpm to zero?

Originally posted by Nubo
Wow! I'm surprised at the amount of vitriol about coasting.

Why the surprise, nubo? I don't do it that way, therefore no one should do it that way. Isn't that how things work around here?

BTW, I'm pretty much like you but more and more I am trying to coast in gear in these situations. It takes a real mental shift from the "fun factor" and I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it.

Originally posted by Crashunit
Ok this is the second time this has happened to me. I’m cruising at a relatively high speed around 80-100 mph, and take the car out of 6th gear and cruise in neutral. Then I watch as the rpms drop to 1,000 and then the to zero and all my warning lights turn on (battery light, power steering, CEL, ect.) and the motor just dies. Radio is still on, still have power steering and stuff I guess, but I rev the motor and can’t hear it or see the rpms go up. The car is basically like in accessory mode right before you crank the car to turn it on. Then I put it back into gear, and the car comes back on and all the warning lights turn off ( CEL, Battery, PS, DSC, ect.) Frankly, the first time I did this, it scared the shit out of me. But all I have to do is put it back in gear and the car comes back. This also only happens above 80 mph I believe, cause I would test it at various speeds for the same results, and at above 80 it would do it consistently the two times it happened. But at like 60 mph or lower, its fine in neutral. Obviously, something is wrong with my car, and I was wondering if anyone else had this problem or is it just me? Hopefully it’s just me and not a big deal, so anyone else get this or know what could be wrong? There is nothing wrong with this driving technique at all, it is safe, it saves gas and engine wear and it is not illegal. Leaving it in gear going down hill is fore MAC TRUCKS because their brakes overheat on a lonmg downhill on a mountain slope. From a pilot standpoint you technique is similar to what I use in a 707 during decent. I wouldn't leave the engines at cruise power and pop the speedbrakes. I go to idle which equals neutral in a car and let gravity maintain my speed. I do the same thing in my Z28 everyday. Hell I go to neutral on steep hill onpurpose to let gravity accelerate me because it is fun. I am in perfect control of my vehicle. My hands are on the controls and my eyes on the road. Anyway, your engine should still run. The car doesn't know it is moving. If it rolled out of the driveway in neutral for some reason you would expect the engine to still run wouldn't you? So, you were rolling down a hill at 80mph it should still run, same as if you were stopped. I know with some V8's like mine turning hard can cause some fuel starvation at idle but I know nothing about a rotory at idle and how it works. I would assume if your car can shut off while rolling down a hill at idle you could duplicate it in the garage in idle by bouncing it or tilting it on jacks or something.

Yo Pilot, you really fly JSTARS? I write Navy software for JSTARS. Rock on, dude!

Ok sorry for the delay, but I finally took The RX-8 in to get it checked out along with some other stuff, like replacing the oil pan and reflashing the ecu. Anyways, the dealer believes it might be caused by my aftermarket intake. The reason why is because, the MAP sensor on the intake is so sensitive that if it senses there is too much air comming in or there is no filter on the car, it won't even start. So my theory on what is happening to my car is that when I am in neutral going at about say 100 mph, the ram air funnel infront of the car flows all the incomming air into the intake, which causes the MAP sensor to think there is either too much air comming in or there is no filter; and when that happens it shuts off the car. But that is just my theory, since they don't really have an idea to why it was happening. But on a brighter note, for the last 2000 miles I have driven the car, I have tried to see if it would still do it, and it hasnt ever happened again. So maybe the intake wasnt clamp properly or something..... Anyways, they just said to bring it back if it ever happens again. :confused:

my car did this to me 3x yesterday and i was not at high speeds. The first time i was going 40 and the 2nd i was doing about 60 and i just threw in in nuetral to coast to the light and it would die. I started watching my driving then and noticed when cruising and i put it in N the RPM would go down and almost hit zero before returning to idle. I watched it die the 3rd time and coming down from 6k rpm the needle went down fast to 0 and stayed there, the car died. Im gonna talk to my dealer this afternoon but was wondering if anyone actually figured this out.. im stock right now

OFFICIAL WARNING:

i know, i just did a search and this was all that came up, that way when i started another topic, which i did hoping ot get response, no one would tell me to search first

But besides that, how does being in gear affect turning the car to the left or right? last time I checked the steering wheel and shifter are not connected.

Last time I looked, the drivetrain and the wheels -were- connected, on the other hand, and at the very least you're going to confuse the hell out of the LSD and the DSC. A confused LSD is not a good thing to have when you make a sudden lane change to avoid that deer that just ran onto the highway.

The car expects to be in gear at speed and dozens of things in the PCM will be set up that way. Yes, you go through the neutral position to change gear, but that's not the same thing in terms of engine management.

At the very least, idling at standstill will draw a certain amount of air past the MAF - idling at 80mph will draw a great deal more air past the MAF and that won't be helping. (Yes, I know it's not ram induction...)

Plus when the engine is idle the oil is circulating at idle speed and pressure, which may not help the life of your tranny fluids.

I think other people have lectured enough on how this may be considered unsafe already, so I'll leave that topic.

You should get this checked out (get thee to a dealer!)



I concurr, I feel it is an issue that needs to be addressed asap

I know this is old, but I can't find anything else anywhere. My car just did this to me tonight going about 60 mph bout 48 deg outside, going up a small hill I put it in neutral cause my driveway is at the top and I coast to my house since the roads a little rough I don't need to go fast on it, and it stalled so I put it in 5th and it started so I tried again and it stalls when in neutral. Has anyone found out what causes this. Have new coils, plugs, wires, complete tuneup on everything.