I am in the market for getting an RX8. I was really impressed with the looks, performance, price and the practicality. I test drove it and loved it even more. What makes me nervous is the fact that I have spent over 10 total hours looking threw these threads and overall have seen many problems associated with the new 30k dollar car. Rough cold starts, really bad mpg, rare but still happening blown engines, flooding engines, sucking too much oil.

Someone tell me that these things are not happening. Maybe I am reading this wrong and there are 2 people on this forum giving a sour taste in my mouth. Believe me I dont want to believe that this is happening. I want this car very bad but I dont want to take my car in the shop every week b/c my car floods or i am getting 12 mpg. The mpg alone would piss me off. I have a 2002 accord coupe 5 spd and it says 26- 33 and when i drive it hard i get 28 mpg. If a car says 18- 24 then by God I should be able to drive in at 8 rpms and still get maybe 15 mpg. You are right when you say that people complaining scares people like me. The last thing you want to hear about a sexy sports car with practicality is that it is riddled with problems.

Like I said, maybe im mistaken. what i do like is that most the people who have problems still stand by their baby. that has to mean something. And dont chew me out for simply making my observations. Im not bashing anyones ride. I might just wait till the 05 but who knows.

It's all relative - there's around 8 or 9 thousand RX-8s on the streets of North America already, and there's a few here posting about problems. The other 7.9 or 8.9 thousand of us are just enjoying our cars! If you read carefully, you'll see far more of us post in the mileage threads that we're getting 16 to 20+ mpg; it's the 12 or 13 mpg people that are certainly the exception. I don't recall any sucking too much oil, and the rotary is supposed to burn some oil. Adding oil every 1000 miles (usually less often) is NOT a big deal.

All car forums have a constituency that comes to post about problems and look for assistance and solutions - you'll see that in every single auto forum, even for something as dead reliable as Miatas. The problems posts are noticeable, because the vast majority of us who are just driving our cars with no problems don't bother to post "Ho hum, nothing went wrong today either, just another fun day blasting around in my RX-8" all the time! :D

PS - this forum has been around long enough that 10 hours reading isn't NEARLY enough time to get a proper feel for the RX-8's strengths and weaknesses. As you've found, you've just scratched the surface to get an impression of possible trouble areas, but haven't got a good sense of how significant those are. Either keep reading for another 100 or 200 hours, or trust me! :cool: ;)

Regards,
Gordon

Don't sweat it so much. There are alot of loud mouths on this forum.

There are some blown engines, but it seems to be very few and Mazda has been very good about replacing them. Blown engines happen in some numbers with all companies. The mileage thing does seem to be a problem for some, but I have been getting perfectly servicable mileage out of my car for 3,000 miles as have many others.

The only thing that I would say is that you make sure you break the engine in WELL before trying to rev it up or pump in alot of gas. My car has been problem free so far. I really dig it!

Just trust Gord. He ain't lieing, and this is the last of my two cents since I am sure that the flaming will start shortly and I will get lost in the noise as usual. ;)

Poor gas milage...well, if you are used to an Accord, then yes, it will seem like poor mileage. The rotary is fuel inefficient no matter how you slice it. Whether it is 20 MPG or 12, that is not stellar for a 1.3 liter engine. Just something you have to live with as a rotary owner (as well as burning oil). The benefits of a rotary far outweigh the negatives. You have highlighted the basic problems a rotary owner can experience. There are many ways to prevent these issues, however. Flooding can be prevented by not cold starting and shutting it off before it is warm...MPG can be improved by being a little more conservative on the gas, etc. Another reason why these cars are not getting the advertised MPG is because of the last minute ECU flash they did at the factory. I heard that Mazda is offering the Mazdaspeed Protege owners a free ECU reflash to improve performance. I am sure that in a few months, they will be offering the same thing to RX8 owners. They definitely made a mistake tampering with the ECU so close to ship date, so I am sure their SW engineers are working on a fix.

Don't let the issues you refer to below scare you off, they are not insurmoutable problems and can be avoided.

Happy Rotoring,

Kurt G.

I too am in the market, but a tad nervous. I have been (lurking) around this board for about a year (already!?!) so I think I can safely say that there are a whole lot more satisfied drivers than dissatisfied drivers. The dissatisfied ones are more vocal and come on the board to bitch, complain, and/or look for help, so the tendency/theme of this board is somewhat negative. There is a "Little Things..." thread (a Sticky now) that you might read to get your confidence back up. I will get this car at some point, but the timing for me isn't quite right. Besides, I do have some concerns (similar to yours) with this "inaugural" model year, so I don't mind waiting for the few (if any) fixes for the '05 model. (Thanks to all those that already made the commitment!)

Interestingly enough, here's the informal satisfaction poll (http://www.rx8club.com/poll.php?s=&action=showresults&pollid=322). Given that most people visiting the board are fans of the RX8 and that ~180 votes do not properly represent the thousands of RX8 sold, but notice how many satisfied / highly satisfied votes there are and then compare it to how many negative/complaining threads there are.

Personally, I would wait till the 05s. There are a few who returned their cars due to the HP, and got Infiniti G35s. They still wish they had their RX-8s, according to their postings on the G35 part of Edmonds site. More fun to drive and handles better.

From my observations, the few problems with the RX-8 are:
Poor mileage - worse than my 3rd gen RX-7. This may be dealt with soon by Mazda. See Canzoomers latest report.
Some "teething" problems - perhaps the oil pan is the most serious.

It is still a very nice car. Very well thought out. The LED lights in the interior are a very nice touch. It -may- handle even better than my 3rd gen. And it seats 4, comfortably. I have ridden in Canzoomers many times, even in the back. I'm 6', 200 something lbs, and I had plenty of room. Even the front of my 7 is cramped.

[The rotary is fuel inefficient no matter how you slice it. Whether it is 20 MPG or 12, that is not stellar for a 1.3 liter engine. Just something you have to live with as a rotary owner (as well as burning oil). The benefits of a rotary far outweigh the negatives.

What are the benefits of a rotary?

"What are the benefits of a rotary?"

Uhhh...where do I start?

Here are just a few:

1) Highest HP to Liter ratio of any engine in the world (RENESIS: 240HP in a 1.3L N/A engine...try to find a more powerful motor than that at 1.3 non-turbo)
2) About 30% lighter and more compact than a piston engine in its HP class. This enables it to sit further back and low in the engine bay, giving the new RX8 a perfect 50/50 weight balance and a sub 3000 overall weight...about 300 lbs lighter than a Z.
3) Freely and comfortably revs to 9,000+ RPMs with an ever increasing HP band all the way to redline.
4) Far less moving parts=less things that can break. No pistons, rods, rings, etc to go bad or shoot through the block. Just a rotor and a shaft.

Those are the main points, maybe others can chime in with more.

Happy Rotoring,

Kurt G

Benefits to a rotary -

Quiet smooth power at all RPM's which makes for very comfortable and quiet cruising.

Free revving engine that feels great to drive.

Light weight and compact package that permits the engine to sit very low in the car as well as fully behind the front axle making the RX 8 one of the best handling cars that you will ever drive by its nature and not through heavy suspension stiffening. Therefore the car has little yaw through corners permitting the car to corner fairly flat at high speeds while having less shock through the spine than other performance cars with the same handling.

The displacement is actually more comparable to a 2.6 litre piston engine due to the way the calculations are made it can be characterised either as a 1.3 litre or a 2.6 litre.

Here is a FAQ that might help:

http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/cfaqmenu.html#FCF

Other than that, you have to drive it to feel it. It's in the upper reve range that the car truly feels great, but the engine also definitely needs to be broken in before it can be driven hard.

One thing to note from a former owner, there are a few problems with the car, mine was pretty good, no flooding no blown engine, gas mileage was not bad 18-20mpg. I really didn't have too many problems.

But things aren't that rossey with the car either, the "hot " console the a/c isn't the greatest, and the seats especially the passenger seat isn't that great for a long drive.

I've moved on to an S2k which seems more solid in nature, from reading posts on the s2k forum nobody seems to have any gripes! I'm not sure if it's because the riff raff has been weeded out and that is yet to happen here or not.

The RX8 is a great car, fun to drive, and goes like stink (quote from top gear), it is a little quirky so you have to decide if you want to live with those issues.

There are lots of other benefits to the rotary. First of all, go to the Mazda website and look at the way it works first, compared to a piston engine.

The rotary is much smoother. In a piston engine, the pistons are constantly reversing their motion, going up, stopping, going down, stopping.... In a rotary engine, the rotors only move in one direction. This means that a rotary engine can run at much higher speeds than a piston engine, with less vibration.

I personally like it because it's just a beautiful design. The 8 has a few flaws, but it's the only car I out now that will seat 4, look incredible, and put a smile on my face. It is a very well-designed car, built entirely around this unique powerplant.

Back to Giant's concerns. I'm not that worried about the problems, because at least Mazda is fixing those engines under warranty (even replacing them). Even with a very reputable brand like BMW you can have problems, like with the M3 where they even rejected some warranty claims for blown engines (which were factory defects).

Guess it depends on the person. I for one am totally happy with my RX8. The car is a blast to drive and a pleasure to own. I just came back from Vegas (I have just over 7k on the car) and I was cruising with the flow of traffic which was moving along at speeds of 80-90. Obviously this isn't the best speeds for gas mileage but I still went from roughly the Ontario International Airport area to Las Vegas on 3/4 tank of gas. That's about 200 miles. The car runs like a champ.

When I was at the Bellagio they were doing security checks for each car as they were moving into the parking area. The security guys were all business until my car was next then they became car enthusiasts. They were grinning from ear to ear, looking everything over, asking me about the features of the car. Finally the lead guy came up to the window and said "this is a BEEUUTIFUL car my friend." He was Italian. We talked a bit and he waved me on through. Now I know they see every kind of car that's available roll through at the Bellagio but it was my blue RX8 that was the show stopper. Priceless.

Whatever problems some are complaining about are really in the minority. The vast majority of owners are very happy with this car. It's well worth owning and Mazda is being very good about fixing any problems that do show up.

This car is obviously the result of genuine enthusiasts who care about driving and performance. Don't hesitate to get an 8; you'll love it.

Originally posted by Genshie
"What are the benefits of a rotary?"

Uhhh...where do I start?

Here are just a few:

1) Highest HP to Liter ratio of any engine in the world (RENESIS: 240HP in a 1.3L N/A engine...try to find a more powerful motor than that at 1.3 non-turbo)
2) About 30% lighter and more compact than a piston engine in its HP class. This enables it to sit further back and low in the engine bay, giving the new RX8 a perfect 50/50 weight balance and a sub 3000 overall weight...about 300 lbs lighter than a Z.
3) Freely and comfortably revs to 9,000+ RPMs with an ever increasing HP band all the way to redline.
4) Far less moving parts=less things that can break. No pistons, rods, rings, etc to go bad or shoot through the block. Just a rotor and a shaft.

Those are the main points, maybe others can chime in with more.

Happy Rotoring,

Kurt G

1.) As far as I know a 1.3L Rotary translates into a 2.6 liter for a piston engine which makes it so so in the HP per liter department.

2.) Prove it, because I just don't buy it, my car with 4 doors, and a heavy AWD system weighs about the same as an RX-8. Balance maybe, weight I have yet to see anyone prove the renesis weighs less than a high output 4 cylinder.

3.) Maybe a little too comfortable, the car doesn't pull that hard and seems to start falling short 2k before redline. (just observed in my testdrive)

4.) Sounds good, however those far less moving parts have had far more problems throughtout the years than most of the high output piston engines that weigh about the same, or less.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
1.) As far as I know a 1.3L Rotary translates into a 2.6 liter for a piston engine which makes it so so in the HP per liter department.

2.) Prove it, because I just don't buy it, my car with 4 doors, and a heavy AWD system weighs about the same as an RX-8. Balance maybe, weight I have yet to see anyone prove the renesis weighs less than a high output 4 cylinder.

3.) Maybe a little too comfortable, the car doesn't pull that hard and seems to start falling short 2k before redline. (just observed in my testdrive)

4.) Sounds good, however those far less moving parts have had far more problems throughtout the years than most of the high output piston engines that weigh about the same, or less.

Ike is back and he isnt wasting anytime trying to denigrate the 8. but its a futile waste of time. :D

Ike, C'mon....it's not like you are biased or anything.

How have the "far less moving parts had more problems throughout the years"? As far as I know, I have a 130K mile 89 Rx-7 GTUs that I redline a few times per drive, and the car still has the same amount of power that it did on day 1. I know plenty of other N/A rotary owners with 200K+ miles on their cars. You are probably referring to blown apex seals on the FD...that has nothing to do with the number of moving parts in the motor...that has everything to do with the cooling system and the turbochargers.

Why don't YOU prove that the rotary is not 30% lighter. After all, you are the dude with the WRX in your tagline on an RX8 board. I dont have to prove a dayam thing. Most people here agree with me...that is the benefit of hanging out with a crowd that is biased towards my automotive interests and opinions.

Happy Rotoring

Kurt G.

Originally posted by RX-GR8
Ike is back and he isnt wasting anytime trying to denigrate the 8. but its a futile waste of time. :D

Maybe you could find some way to combat my arguments and prove me wrong rather than taking the easy way out?

For instance, I'll start to prove myself wrong... :p

It's not the last 2K that's the problem it's somewhere in the middle that the car felt flat.

So what's the use of a higher redline if the car doesn't make good use of every a portion of the curve?

Find out how much a renesis weighs compared to the similar hp Honda, Subaru, Nissan, Dodge, whatever 4 cylinder engines.

Prove to me 1.3L of displacement is the same as 1.3L of displacement in a cylinder engine.



Ike

Ike, you don't own the car. You are never going to own the car. So, why are you posting on a thread advising a guy about what the car can do? You have no idea. And as I posted above, the 1.3 in rotary displacement does translate into 2.6 in a piston engine so you aren't really pointing out anything that wasn't posted above.

I tried to google search for the weight specs of the renesis and other rotary engines, but I couldn't come up with anything. Anybody have some hard figures on the weight of the renesis?

As for the displacement of a rotary engine, what should be taken for the displacement? The volume of air taken in during one revolution of the crankshaft, or one revolution of the rotor.... The volume is actually much more difficult to calculate than for piston engines, because there you just calculate the volume of a cylinder (V=pi*r^2*h).

Anyways, why do we care about displacement anyways? Isn't it used simply to convey the size of the engine? It's useful to compare size/power of piston engines, but it clearly doesn't help with comparing pistons with rotaries. Why don't we just compare hp per lb of engine weight?

Originally posted by rabinabo
I tried to google search for the weight specs of the renesis and other rotary engines, but I couldn't come up with anything. Anybody have some hard figures on the weight of the renesis?

As for the displacement of a rotary engine, what should be taken for the displacement? The volume of air taken in during one revolution of the crankshaft, or one revolution of the rotor.... The volume is actually much more difficult to calculate than for piston engines, because there you just calculate the volume of a cylinder (V=pi*r^2*h).

Anyways, why do we care about displacement anyways? Isn't it used simply to convey the size of the engine? It's useful to compare size/power of piston engines, but it clearly doesn't help with comparing pistons with rotaries. Why don't we just compare hp per lb of engine weight?


I couldn't find a damn thing either, everything just says lightweight for the rotary and various 4 cylinder engines. All I could find was a 13B used for an aircraft application that weighs 345 LBS, but that won't help much. I'm actually very curious about this, car manufacturers throw light weight this light weight that around a lot. But what do these "lightweight engines" actually weigh?

Haze, I missed you pointing out the 1.3L issue. No I don't own the car, yes I could have owned the car, yes I've driven the car. Seems like my opinion has some merit whether you like it or not. I don't think I'm really advising him on the car one way or another.
I just jumped in on the discussion as to why the renesis is better.
I've tried to honestly figure out why people think it's better, in my trying to figure out why it's better all I've been able to come up with is that it's different. I guess some people think different is better just for the sake of being different, but that seems like a pretty weak argument.

So many people say the past rotary problems are due to heat, last time I checked engines of all types make heat. Seems kind of like making a swim suit that is very durable unless you get it wet...


Ike

Originally posted by IkeWRX
So many people say the past rotary problems are due to heat, last time I checked engines of all types make heat. Seems kind of like making a swim suit that is very durable unless you get it wet...


Ike

I see that Lil' Ike is back with us and up to his same slimy tactics.

Like He said "I'm drawn to it like white trash to Jerry Springer" .....OCD maybe?

Well Lil' One, will you at least acknowlege the fact that "The Stig" from Top Gear got identical road track times out of the M3, 350z, and RX8? And take this as proof that what you perceived as a lack of power in the RX8 has no real world effect on the 8s performance?

This, along with the other videos where the RX8 won on road courses is all the proof I need. Not to mention the excellent autoX record the RX8 is establishing.

OBTW, keep it up. Commodus will speak again. I see a Permanent-Permanent ban in your future.

I would like to caution the RX-8 owners from trotting out lap times. I recall a time not too long ago when the RX-8 did fairly poorly in a Best Motoring Vid and everyone fell over themselves denoucing lap times as in indication of performance.

On the other hand, Ike does like to slant things his way, much like RX-8 owners like to think their car is perfect. I don't own a RX-8, but I've been following its development since it was the RX-EVOLV in 1999. The RX-8 does offer a lot of great features and benefits, and it's really quite a deal at 26k.

Benefits:
-> Small package that still seats 4
-> Lightweight compared to other RWD cars, IE: BMW 3 series, 350Z, G35C
-> Very competative performance, especially considering the power deficit
-> Superb chassis that gives the best of both worlds, real world drivability and race track precision.
-> A real head turner. The styling is controversial, to be sure, but you WILL get noticed in a RX-8

Disadvantages:
-> Poor gas mileage. Any way you cut it, 18 MPG isn't that good for city driving.
-> Power issues, Mazda overrated the engine and had to offer a rebate when the power output was revised. This can be mitigated by Canzoomer's ECU mod for a very reasonable price. Check out his section of the vendor forum.
-> No spare tire. The fix a flat kit is useful, but I'd feel a little insecure without a spare, myself.
-> Indifferent A/C, some people have commented on the poor A/C, while others have said that it works great. This is one of those subjective, your mileage may vary situations.
-> Heat from the transmission tunnel, this is typical of Aisin transmissions, many Miata owners have the same gripe.

These are derived from the posts on the board so take them with a grain of salt. My recommendation to you is to take a test drive of the 8 and see how YOU like it. The RX-8 is not the fastest straight line car for $26k, but it offers the most inclusive package of practicality, performance and styling, with few compromises. The engine issues are not a pervasive problem, as much as the Chicken-Littles of this board would like to think so, the sky is not falling.

I would also like to point out that at no point in this post did I mention the rotary engine as a plus or a minus. This car stands on its own merits without the quirky value of the rotary, IMHO. I am a self-professed rotary fanatic and I really like the motors, but the RX-8 is not just a rotary powered vehicle, it is a compact sports sedan with competative performance that happens to have a rotary.

Good luck.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Maybe you could find some way to combat my arguments and prove me wrong rather than taking the easy way out?

For instance, I'll start to prove myself wrong... :p

It's not the last 2K that's the problem it's somewhere in the middle that the car felt flat.

So what's the use of a higher redline if the car doesn't make good use of every a portion of the curve?

Find out how much a renesis weighs compared to the similar hp Honda, Subaru, Nissan, Dodge, whatever 4 cylinder engines.

Prove to me 1.3L of displacement is the same as 1.3L of displacement in a cylinder engine.



Ike

in the middle or at 7k-9k my engine doesnt feel flat at all. it actually starts to come to life there. becuase your test car did you think they all have this "problem". cant find the exact weight yet. just mentions its lighter and smaller than piston engines in the same range. thats good enough for me.

Originally posted by SA22C
I would like to caution the RX-8 owners from trotting out lap times. I recall a time not too long ago when the RX-8 did fairly poorly in a Best Motoring Vid and everyone fell over themselves denoucing lap times as in indication of performance.

On the other hand, Ike does like to slant things his way..............

Good luck.

Yes I do agree that Lil' Ike does have a tendency to exaggerate and twist the truth for his own devious reasons.

I have seen four videos that featured the RX8 in action. Three were race settings and one was timed laps. In three out of the four The RX8 either won out right or tied. This provides a preponderance of evidence that supports my claim that the RX8 has performance equal to or better than most cars in its class.

Lil' Ike provides not much evidence at all, save the impressions he gained from a few minutes test driving.

How much credibility does Lil' Ike have on this board? What are his impressions worth? Comic relief at best.

Sorry Ike

I wouldn't be so quick to debunk the Stig lap times. These are lap times by one single driver on the same track, which makes it a more valid comparison between cars. The videos I've heard of where the 8 gets whipped (although I haven't seen it) is a race with different drivers, so we can't really account for ability or how much practice they had with their cars.

Originally posted by SA22C
I would like to caution the RX-8 owners from trotting out lap times. I recall a time not too long ago when the RX-8 did fairly poorly in a Best Motoring Vid and everyone fell over themselves denoucing lap times as in indication of performance.

On the other hand, Ike does like to slant things his way, much like RX-8 owners like to think their car is perfect. I don't own a RX-8, but I've been following its development since it was the RX-EVOLV in 1999. The RX-8 does offer a lot of great features and benefits, and it's really quite a deal at 26k.

Benefits:
-> Small package that still seats 4
-> Lightweight compared to other RWD cars, IE: BMW 3 series, 350Z, G35C
-> Very competative performance, especially considering the power deficit
-> Superb chassis that gives the best of both worlds, real world drivability and race track precision.
-> A real head turner. The styling is controversial, to be sure, but you WILL get noticed in a RX-8

Disadvantages:
-> Poor gas mileage. Any way you cut it, 18 MPG isn't that good for city driving.
-> Power issues, Mazda overrated the engine and had to offer a rebate when the power output was revised. This can be mitigated by Canzoomer's ECU mod for a very reasonable price. Check out his section of the vendor forum.
-> No spare tire. The fix a flat kit is useful, but I'd feel a little insecure without a spare, myself.
-> Indifferent A/C, some people have commented on the poor A/C, while others have said that it works great. This is one of those subjective, your mileage may vary situations.
-> Heat from the transmission tunnel, this is typical of Aisin transmissions, many Miata owners have the same gripe.

These are derived from the posts on the board so take them with a grain of salt. My recommendation to you is to take a test drive of the 8 and see how YOU like it. The RX-8 is not the fastest straight line car for $26k, but it offers the most inclusive package of practicality, performance and styling, with few compromises. The engine issues are not a pervasive problem, as much as the Chicken-Littles of this board would like to think so, the sky is not falling.

I would also like to point out that at no point in this post did I mention the rotary engine as a plus or a minus. This car stands on its own merits without the quirky value of the rotary, IMHO. I am a self-professed rotary fanatic and I really like the motors, but the RX-8 is not just a rotary powered vehicle, it is a compact sports sedan with competative performance that happens to have a rotary.

Good luck.


Call me slanted all you like, but I agree with your points and have said the very same things many times. However I still fail to see the benefit of the rotary over a high output lightweight 4 cylinder. Which I believe is what we were discussing.

Renotse, why are you posting under the screen name Eugene, it's pretty sad whoever you are that you feel the need to made a seperate account to bash me. What even more sad is that you feel the need to search out what I've posted on other message boards and then take it out of context. FYI to everyone, my screen name at Nasioc is Lil' Ike. Grow up!

As for Ike, I think he's contributed useful comments in the past, but I think he's simplifying a bit too much. I mean, saying something like "last time I checked engines of all types make heat" is a bit much. Come on, Ike, but whatever the problem, it was fixed in the last few years in the Japanese models, so it was not the direct fault of the engine itself.

Still, I think it's useful to have a devil's advocate around to keep us honest :)

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Maybe you could find some way to combat my arguments and prove me wrong rather than taking the easy way out?

For instance, I'll start to prove myself wrong... :p

It's not the last 2K that's the problem it's somewhere in the middle that the car felt flat.

So what's the use of a higher redline if the car doesn't make good use of every a portion of the curve?

Find out how much a renesis weighs compared to the similar hp Honda, Subaru, Nissan, Dodge, whatever 4 cylinder engines.

Prove to me 1.3L of displacement is the same as 1.3L of displacement in a cylinder engine.



Ike

Well...it's just like on a Honda...the last 2k feel strong when the VTEC kicks in, but anywhere before 4500 RPM, the thing get's passed by school buses. How would I know? I own a Honda, have been tuning them on the street and on the dyno for the past three years.

As for a Nissan, the USDM 240's feel slug slow with their truck tranny's, even with a force induction kit added. It takes a JDM SR20DET kit to make them move.

Dodge better move with 2.4 liters of displacement.

As for the B18C5, those weight in slightly over 250 lbs...engine alone, not counting the intake manifold, exhaust manifold, alternator, and all of the goodies. I used that engine to compare because it makes close to 200 horses, just like the A/T Renesis without the extra power ports.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Call me slanted all you like, but I agree with your points and have said the very same things many times. However I still fail to see the benefit of the rotary over a high output lightweight 4 cylinder. Which I believe is what we were discussing.



Aside from the S2k, how many other N/A 4 cylinder engines can you name off the top of your head that are used in a FR sports car with a 50/50 weight distribution and is available readily in the United States?

The Silvia's in Japan yes...there are some that had 2000 cc's without a turbocharger. AE86, but that's from the mid eighty's...the old RX-7's...but we are talking about contemporary times and what is available new...

Why does it have to be N/A and RWD? I'm just curious of the actuall engine weights of 4 cylinders that are comparable in power, not the application it's used in. But even that aside, the 13B weight I found was 288 for the engine alone, it should be pretty close even though there were a few changes due to the application.

If anyone is really curious to see the difference in weight I'll do someresearch and find the weight of the engine in the S2K and a 4 cylinder boxer engine. Those should be pretty good comparisons since the boxer also has a low center of gravity and the S2K is about the same output and used in a similar RWD application. But someone needs to figure out how much a renesis weighs, because I sure as hell can't find it.

Ike

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Aside from the S2k, how many other N/A 4 cylinder engines can you name off the top of your head that are used in a FR sports car with a 50/50 weight distribution and is available readily in the United States?


Miata

The RX8 presskit states the weight of the Renesis to be comparable to an all-aluminum inline 4-cylinder. Of course, they don't state what size 4-cylinder.

I'm not sure what the normal dimensions for an engine are, but one other thing to note is that the Renesis is no taller than the tranny -- it's only 338mm in height; additionally, the tranny is mounted behind the engine, well amidships.

I'm also in the market (timeframe for purchase a few months from now). I continue to be impressed with the design characteristics of the RX8, compared to the conventional designs that define the current offerings from other makes. Everything about the design seems much more optimal, either for interior space and utility, or for the sportscar handling and performance. To say nothing of the unique styling. The only other vehicle I currently see making as bold a statement is perhaps the Infiniti FX. Everything else seems pretty boring...

I'm not too concerned with the first-year model issues noted above. I don't see them precluding my picking one up in a few months.

Ciao!
Darren

I guess I am to the point of purchase as well. The deal at my dealership is 29,500 for 6spd, grand touring, spoiler, rotary package. Seems like a pretty good deal. The winter weather scares me more than anything else.

Originally posted by GiantXTC
I am in the market for getting an RX8. I was really impressed with the looks, performance, price and the practicality. I test drove it and loved it even more. What makes me nervous is the fact that I have spent over 10 total hours looking threw these threads and overall have seen many problems associated with the new 30k dollar car. Rough cold starts, really bad mpg, rare but still happening blown engines, flooding engines, sucking too much oil.

Someone tell me that these things are not happening. Maybe I am reading this wrong and there are 2 people on this forum giving a sour taste in my mouth. Believe me I dont want to believe that this is happening. I want this car very bad but I dont want to take my car in the shop every week b/c my car floods or i am getting 12 mpg. The mpg alone would piss me off. I have a 2002 accord coupe 5 spd and it says 26- 33 and when i drive it hard i get 28 mpg. If a car says 18- 24 then by God I should be able to drive in at 8 rpms and still get maybe 15 mpg. You are right when you say that people complaining scares people like me. The last thing you want to hear about a sexy sports car with practicality is that it is riddled with problems.

Like I said, maybe im mistaken. what i do like is that most the people who have problems still stand by their baby. that has to mean something. And dont chew me out for simply making my observations. Im not bashing anyones ride. I might just wait till the 05 but who knows.


GIANT: I think its all about expectations:

w/ the RX8:

Do expect:

Good quality / Looks, inside and out

Great Handling / Steering, Braking, all well balanced.

Some conveneience, 4 door/4 seat sports car.

pecularities of the rotary

DONT Expect:

247/250 hp

over 20mpg consistently

mainetnace free

O.R.A.,

I think Zeqs meant to say, "How many other N/A 4 cylinder engines with the same HP as the Hi-power Renesis can you name off the top of your head that are used in a FR sports car with a 50/50 weight distribution and is available readily in the United States?"

I guessed as much...

;)


By the way, I've always equated the 1.3 rotaries to 2.6 liter 6-cylinder engines, since each rotor has three combustions per revolution.
The power output of the Renesis is about right for a 2.6 liter 6-cyl motor, but in a much smaller (and I guess lighter) package.

One data point I remember but cannot find (I believe it may have been one of the articles or Mazda press releases from early-Spring 03) noted that the Renesis was approximately 100 pounds lighter than an "all-aluminum V6 of similar power output". I always took that to mean the VQ35 series from Nissan, but that's just conjecture on my part.

Originally posted by cardinal35
The winter weather scares me more than anything else.

The RX-8 does very well in winter conditions - with proper winter tires. With the stock high-performance summer tires, the RX-8 will do very poorly - just like any other car on high performance summer tires. There are a bunch of threads discussing this, along with appropriate winter wheels/tires - if you like, search on my user name along with 'winter tires' in the topic, and you'll find some good threads to read. We got snow early this year, so I've been driving my RX-8 in winter conditions for 4 weeks now - it's great.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by GiantXTC
I am in the market for getting an RX8. I was really impressed with the looks, performance, price and the practicality. I test drove it and loved it even more. What makes me nervous is the fact that I have spent over 10 total hours looking threw these threads and overall have seen many problems associated with the new 30k dollar car. Rough cold starts, really bad mpg, rare but still happening blown engines, flooding engines, sucking too much oil.

Someone tell me that these things are not happening. Maybe I am reading this wrong and there are 2 people on this forum giving a sour taste in my mouth. Believe me I dont want to believe that this is happening. I want this car very bad but I dont want to take my car in the shop every week b/c my car floods or i am getting 12 mpg. The mpg alone would piss me off. I have a 2002 accord coupe 5 spd and it says 26- 33 and when i drive it hard i get 28 mpg. If a car says 18- 24 then by God I should be able to drive in at 8 rpms and still get maybe 15 mpg. You are right when you say that people complaining scares people like me. The last thing you want to hear about a sexy sports car with practicality is that it is riddled with problems.

Like I said, maybe im mistaken. what i do like is that most the people who have problems still stand by their baby. that has to mean something. And dont chew me out for simply making my observations. Im not bashing anyones ride. I might just wait till the 05 but who knows.


Here it is folks...



Every new car has problems. This one will have more because of how innovative it is, ie. the engine and concept.



The Rx-8 is worth every dollar, and I believe it is the best deal of the year as far as cars go. The only other car I would consider for this price is an Infiniti G35.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
1.) As far as I know a 1.3L Rotary translates into a 2.6 liter for a piston engine which makes it so so in the HP per liter department.

2.) Prove it, because I just don't buy it, my car with 4 doors, and a heavy AWD system weighs about the same as an RX-8. Balance maybe, weight I have yet to see anyone prove the renesis weighs less than a high output 4 cylinder.

3.) Maybe a little too comfortable, the car doesn't pull that hard and seems to start falling short 2k before redline. (just observed in my testdrive)

4.) Sounds good, however those far less moving parts have had far more problems throughtout the years than most of the high output piston engines that weigh about the same, or less.


Why do you post in this forum, do you have nothing better to do? You don't own the car, you're not interested in buying the car, you're not interested in rotary engines (at least not in a positive way) - and all that wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact that you're so negative about the car. So what's the point?

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Why does it have to be N/A and RWD? I'm just curious of the actuall engine weights of 4 cylinders that are comparable in power, not the application it's used in. But even that aside, the 13B weight I found was 288 for the engine alone, it should be pretty close even though there were a few changes due to the application.



The Renesis is SUPPOSE to weigh 33 lbs less than the 13B from the FD...most likely due to the lack of the turbo, it's piping...intercooler, yaddi, yaddi, yaddi. I'm well aware that Mazda tries to avoid weight comparisons with 4 cylinders...they like to say it weighs less than a 6 cylinder...

Originally posted by O.R.A.
Miata

Perfect example. The Miata also weighs under 2600 lbs, has damn good weight distribution, RWD, and exceptional handling characteristics. So we have the S2K, Miata, and Boxter?

Originally posted by Speed Racer
O.R.A.,

I think Zeqs meant to say, "How many other N/A 4 cylinder engines with the same HP as the Hi-power Renesis can you name off the top of your head that are used in a FR sports car with a 50/50 weight distribution and is available readily in the United States?"

True. Not necessarily the "same", but "comparible" works. The Miata works...but would work better if it was amped up to 200 HP from the factory...then again...it would kick the RX-8, S2K, and Boxter's ass in that case.

Originally posted by noahprtlnd
Why do you post in this forum, do you have nothing better to do? You don't own the car, you're not interested in buying the car, you're not interested in rotary engines (at least not in a positive way) - and all that wouldn't be a problem, except for the fact that you're so negative about the car. So what's the point?

Some say he's jealous...other's say he's being realistic...most feel that the way he expresses his point of view is very rude, condescending, and obnoxious...for the most part though, anytime someone has a conflicting view, it does seem obnoxious.

He does help provide a wider perspective though, which is hard for me to swollow my pride and admit. If only the Mazda engineers were reading some of the posts...

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Some say he's jealous...other's say he's being realistic...most feel that the way he expresses his point of view is very rude, condescending, and obnoxious...for the most part though, anytime someone has a conflicting view, it does seem obnoxious.

He does help provide a wider perspective though, which is hard for me to swollow my pride and admit. If only the Mazda engineers were reading some of the posts...

Thanks Zeqs, I was just going to ignore it because I was so tired of answering :)

I guess you guys can add the Elise that will soon be on US shores. We're talking less than a ton and about the size of a Miata, and it will strike fear in the hearts of all but the most highly modded cars on the roads and tracks (unless you drive an Enzo or a select few other supercars). I would imagine the toyota/yamaha 2ZZ-GE engine they are using in the USDM car is lighter than the renesis but it will be putting out 190bhp so not quite up to the numbers of the renesis. Why is it so freaking hard to find engine weights, for any engine??? Hopefully I'll be able to have some legitimate numbers soon enough.

Ike

Engin weights (in llb) :


K20A:________RSX Type-R__275
F20A:________S2000______281 (don't know if this is diff from the F20C)
Rover K Series:_OG Elise____189
Rover K VVTA:__Elise 111S__206 ? unofficial based on the head weight delta
2ZZ-GE:_______Celica GTS__246 (Toyota headers and intake)
Renesis:_______RX8_______275

Orig S1 Elise was < 750kg. US elise will be > 950kg.

The F20A was used in JDM preludes and some accords I believe and it's a SOHC, the F20C (S2000 engine) is a DOHC. Good info Rob, hopefully I'll be able to dig up the F20C and Boxer info.

Ike

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Perfect example. The Miata also weighs under 2600 lbs, has damn good weight distribution, RWD, and exceptional handling characteristics. So we have the S2K, Miata, and Boxter?

The Boxster is not FR. If mid-engines count, then there's also the Toyota Spyder.

The Miata comes under 2400 pounds and the Toyota under 2300.

I heard that the Mazdaspeed Miata will have about 180hp (with a turbo)

Originally posted by O.R.A.
The Boxster is not FR. If mid-engines count, then there's also the Toyota Spyder.

The Miata comes under 2400 pounds and the Toyota under 2300.

I heard that the Mazdaspeed Miata will have about 180hp (with a turbo)

The older MR2 is probably a better comparison than the Spyder. It at least had some guts, and damn they handled nice.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Thanks Zeqs, I was just going to ignore it because I was so tired of answering :)

I would imagine the toyota/yamaha 2ZZ-GE engine they are using in the USDM car is lighter than the renesis but it will be putting out 190bhp so not quite up to the numbers of the renesis. Why is it so freaking hard to find engine weights, for any engine??? Hopefully I'll be able to have some legitimate numbers soon enough.

Ike

I kinda hoped that they would have stuck with the B18C5 from the Integra, like they had back in the prototype stages. Nothing against Yamaha, but I guess I'm bias for Honda.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
The older MR2 is probably a better comparison than the Spyder. It at least had some guts, and damn they handled nice.

92? - 95 MR2 Turbo - 200 horsepower from the factory. Damn powerful car. My highschool shop teacher had a fully reworked one with a HKS turbo upgrade, custom suspension system, smooth sounding exhaust. He claimed it pushed 378 WHP on a chassis dyno with UniCal 100 Octane fuel on 17.5 psi. 378 on such a light body = trouble for the Dodge Viper of that year...

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
92? - 95 MR2 Turbo - 200 horsepower from the factory. Damn powerful car. My highschool shop teacher had a fully reworked one with a HKS turbo upgrade, custom suspension system, smooth sounding exhaust. He claimed it pushed 378 WHP on a chassis dyno with UniCal 100 Octane fuel on 17.5 psi. 378 on such a light body = trouble for the Dodge Viper of that year...

My first project car will most likely be a 2nd gen/ MR2, if only they weren't so damn hard to work on I would have no doubt. It's also pretty hard to find a good one. I pass one every day with a few dents a few times a week on my way to work, I've thought about leaving a note many times asking if they were interested in selling.

Originally posted by RobDickinson
Engin weights (in llb) :


K20A:________RSX Type-R__275
F20A:________S2000______281 (don't know if this is diff from the F20C)
Rover K Series:_OG Elise____189
Rover K VVTA:__Elise 111S__206 ? unofficial based on the head weight delta
2ZZ-GE:_______Celica GTS__246 (Toyota headers and intake)
Renesis:_______RX8_______275

Orig S1 Elise was < 750kg. US elise will be > 950kg.

All I have come up with thus far is a boxer 2.0L 4 cylinder from 1989 weighed 286lbs. Exactly how much has changed with the engine and weight of it I don't know.

I was in same situation and at last decided to wait. I think the 8 is a beautiful car but it isn’t yet ready to be sold; The renesis engine as it is sucks in terms of reliability and performance compared to other engines on the market. It still needs much development IMO.
And Mazda’s policy to use customers as guinea pigs is not for me.

You sound pretty angry, Bud. Your tone makes it difficult to believe that a car could elicit such emotion. Sorry to see such anger during a Holiday weekend...

Originally posted by SpacerX
You sound pretty angry, Bud. Your tone makes it difficult to believe that a car could elicit such emotion. Sorry to see such anger during a Holiday weekend...

No anger at all Spacer , honest ! My tone may give the wrong impression since English is not my native language...

The rest is exactly what I think of the 8 as today and Mazda as customer policy.

I have a 2001 Miata and very happy with it despite the lower power issue it had when new; And I bought a new Acura RSX TypeS to wait for the 'better' RX8 to come out sometime

Peace

Originally posted by IkeWRX
My first project car will most likely be a 2nd gen/ MR2, if only they weren't so damn hard to work on I would have no doubt. It's also pretty hard to find a good one. I pass one every day with a few dents a few times a week on my way to work, I've thought about leaving a note many times asking if they were interested in selling.

Minor dents and dings on the body isn't a big deal...paintless dent repair can usually fix that and make it look good as new. I would have to say finding one that hasn't been badly abused is harder...I see too many of them with salvaged titles around where I live.

Originally posted by budwei
I was in same situation and at last decided to wait. I think the 8 is a beautiful car but it isn’t yet ready to be sold; The renesis engine as it is sucks in terms of reliability and performance compared to other engines on the market. It still needs much development IMO.
And Mazda’s policy to use customers as guinea pigs is not for me.

I can understand you don't want to buy the 8 because it's still new on the market, but you also have to understand, it does not matter what car manufacture, most of the time, the first year sales of a particular model is the guinea pig model. The Celica GTS has gone through some exhaust piping changes between the first few years, nothing major, but it's there. The Civic Si and RSX Type-S have a super restrictive fuel map from the factory, but Hondata can fix that. Lancer Evo...had some tranny problems? Suburu...stupid street racers kept blowing out the first to second gear synchros. Every car is with their quirks and hopefully all of them get the majority of the issues worked out during their generation of sales.

Some problems aren't found out until it's been driven by customers. Like the problem with the BMW M3 engines was that the cheap gas sold in the US caused engine parts to wear down faster than the high-quality gas that BMW used during testing.

Originally posted by rabinabo
Some problems aren't found out until it's been driven by customers. Like the problem with the BMW M3 engines was that the cheap gas sold in the US caused engine parts to wear down faster than the high-quality gas that BMW used during testing.

Gas is gas, right? Spending more is simply buying the brand name to brag about :o

Some people just don't get it..."Gee...ever since I switched over to 'USA" gas, my car seems slower and I hear a sound like rocks pelting against my hood when I floor it...oh well, it'll probably pass with time...but I saved one dollar on a full tank of gas!"

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Gas is gas, right?

Nope. In North America, gasoline has tended to have much higher sulphur content than in Europe, where all refineries have been upgraded over the last 5-7 years to meet new standards. Some refineries here are already low sulphur (ie they remove more of the sulphur present in the crude oil), some have recently been upgraded, and most will be upgraded over the next 4 or 5 years. However, the difference in fuel quality, specifically the sulphur content, has meant some differences - for example, BMW held off on the introduction of aluminum block engines in the 3 series until 2001 because of concerns. In the 5 series, in 94 and 95 BMW sold 3 litre and 4 litre V8s made of an aluminum alloy called Nikasil. They were fine in Europe, but in North America, the high sulphur content in the gasoline meant accelerated wear of the cylinder walls, and BMW had to replace very many engine blocks under warranty. They eventually substituted another alloy (Alusil) that wasn't supsceptible to the sulphur corrosion to eliminate the problem cause by the North American gasoline.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
I can understand you don't want to buy the 8 because it's still new on the market, but you also have to understand, it does not matter what car manufacture, most of the time, the first year sales of a particular model is the guinea pig model. The Celica GTS has gone through some exhaust piping changes between the first few years, nothing major, but it's there. The Civic Si and RSX Type-S have a super restrictive fuel map from the factory, but Hondata can fix that. Lancer Evo...had some tranny problems? Suburu...stupid street racers kept blowing out the first to second gear synchros. Every car is with their quirks and hopefully all of them get the majority of the issues worked out during their generation of sales.

The thing with Civic Si and RSX is true but it's not a problem, it's a Plus!; The cars deliver what they promise. Hondata is just an aftermarket ECU reflash that gives you abput 20 whp for $600. There is no big issue going on with these cars and power is indeed underrated. you can check www.clubrsx.com

And Yes there are a lot of teenagers blowing trannys and engines on Evo's, wrx's, civics and rsx's due to mishandling (Eg. a kid on a RSX missshifting from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th at 8k and engine going BOOM )

The combo that bothers me more in the Rx8 is the "LowerMileage@LowerPower" "that claimed by Mazda". They know very well that most ppl are too good to return their car so they take advantage of that and sell a motor that still needs development.

Originally posted by -=Zeqs=-
Minor dents and dings on the body isn't a big deal...paintless dent repair can usually fix that and make it look good as new. I would have to say finding one that hasn't been badly abused is harder...I see too many of them with salvaged titles around where I live.

Actually I want one with minor dents... :) I consider that car a possible good one, it looks bone stock is a MT and doesn't hace the heavy T-top. Most of them I come across are either highly modded or autos. Minor dents don't bother me much since the MR2 would be primarily used as a track car.

Also, you can add the M roadster and other BMW roadsters (Z3, and I believe Z4) to the list of cars with RWD and 50/50 weight distribution. The older M versions are even rated at 240hp and weigh almost exactly the same as the RX-8.

Originally posted by budwei
The thing with Civic Si and RSX is true but it's not a problem, it's a Plus!; The cars deliver what they promise. Hondata is just an aftermarket ECU reflash that gives you abput 20 whp for $600. There is no big issue going on with these cars and power is indeed underrated. you can check www.clubrsx.com

And Yes there are a lot of teenagers blowing trannys and engines on Evo's, wrx's, civics and rsx's due to mishandling (Eg. a kid on a RSX missshifting from 3rd to 2nd instead of 4th at 8k and engine going BOOM )

The combo that bothers me more in the Rx8 is the "LowerMileage@LowerPower" "that claimed by Mazda". They know very well that most ppl are too good to return their car so they take advantage of that and sell a motor that still needs development.

Funny...the RSX Type-S that raced me when they first came out..couldn't take me...

I was running a 2000 Honda Civic EX on 75 shots of nitrous, 17" rims, suspension, header, and exhaust of course...

Reason why I say it couldn't take me is that 99-01 unmodified Integra Type R's could slowly inch away from me. The Type-S was slowly losing to me.

Reason I say this...Civic EX, stock...127 bhp = 100 whp.
99-01 Integra Type R, stock trim has 195 bhp = 148 whp.
RSX Type S in stock trim is suppose to have 200 bhp, with a six speed tranny which should yield less drivetrain loss than the B18C5's tranny...but it didn't perform as well.

On another note...30 / 35 MPG on my Civic Ex...never happened. More like something along the lines of 20 / 25 the way I normally drive, but never got anything better than 28 MPG highway miles with the cruise control set on 70 MPH. However...nobody seems to be bitching and moaning about that...

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Also, you can add the M roadster and other BMW roadsters (Z3, and I believe Z4) to the list of cars with RWD and 50/50 weight distribution. The older M versions are even rated at 240hp and weigh almost exactly the same as the RX-8.

True. I never see anyone use them for anything other than a driveway trophey around where I live though. Such a waste.

Originally posted by RX-GR8
Ike is back and he isnt wasting anytime trying to denigrate the 8. but its a futile waste of time. :D

Please people don't quote Ike's post. I, like many, have put Ike on my ignore list. The only person thus relegated. But when people quote him, I'm subjected to his trollness (He even admitted to posting just to stir up shit, and referred to his trollness on another forum). This forum would be much improved if the ignore function would also ignore quotes of ignored persons. I'm all for free speech and all that, but I'm also all for the ability to block speech resembling oral diarrhea.

i didnt quote his post and i know he's playing a game.

You guys are nuts... put that in your quote!


Zeqs, it's pretty true what you say, though the M version are certainly owned by more enthusiasts and I seem them out at autox and track events more often even though there are a lot more of the non M versions.

posting on the forum of a car you don't even own and getting banned. now thats nuts. :)

Originally posted by RX-GR8
posting on the forum of a car you don't even own and getting banned. now thats nuts. :)

This new fangled internet thing is probably pretty new to you and all but it's pretty commonplace. :p

nope not new to me at all.

Originally posted by IkeWRX
Zeqs, it's pretty true what you say, though the M version are certainly owned by more enthusiasts and I seem them out at autox and track events more often even though there are a lot more of the non M versions.

That's because a lot of people want to look like they know how to auto cross and as if they participate in track events when they really don't even where their gas tank release latch is :p

It doesn't help that the very own BMWCCA won't allow convertibles at their track events.

Originally posted by O.R.A.
It doesn't help that the very own BMWCCA won't allow convertibles at their track events.

I think they do allow convertibles, but only if they have approved rollover protection installed - ie 4 point roll bar. The double hoops on the Z3s, Z4s, M Roadsters (and Boxsters, and S2000s) do not meet SCCA regs for rollover protection, so anyone wanting to run one of those on a track usually has to have a real roll bar installed. Many Miata owners install proper roll bars to do track sessions - I imagine far fewer BMW owners are willing to do the same.

Regards,
Gordon

I have had a few problems but figure they will get worked out and to me the car is worth it!! I figure it's best to wait a year and see how they work out some kinks.

Gordon, perhaps it is not a National BMWCCA policy even though I was told it is, but as far as the BMWCCA chapters that I have talked to and instructed with, they do not allow ANY convertibles, not even a Miata with a rollcage and a hardtop bolted in. Definitely not a Z3 or Z4 in any way.

PCA does allow them as long as they have rollover protection. Some chapters require the top to be up also unless you run with arm restraints and full face helmet with face shield.

hello all,
I am new here and also in the market for an 8. I just wanted to thank you all for all the information that you have posted to be aware the pros and cons of owning an 8. Yes, I have been looking for a replacement for my beloved and tired '81 Datsun 280ZX with 200K miles. I guess that I could have gone for a 350Z to continue the Z saga but my wife and I are planning to have kids. So, I opted for the 8 for practical reasons and at the same time performance and looks.
I know that some people have flooding issues and low fuel economy (I get about 14/20 mpg in my Z which is not much difference for me except for a 20 gallon gas tank), but at least you guys are educating me with the do's and don'ts to avoid flooding. And for that I appreciated. If everything goes well, I will have a silver mt with sport package to be proud of. Talk to you soon :)
romulus

breezy_rx8,

For some reason when I posted a message the system used your user name (see previous meesage). That is really strange and I couldn't delete it. This time I used the reply button instead of typing below the thread. Have you guys have this problem before? Anyway, it seems that everything is ok. By the way this is one of few forums that everyone is trying to help each other.
Cheers!
romulus