Since when did pimps become so cool? I see the usernames, the songs, the glorification of criminal abuse of women. Why is that cool now among some circles?

Pimpin aint easy, lol, i dont like the idea of prostitutes of any crap like that, but i just use this name for laughs

Cuz it be gangsta yo! ... every little immature kid/man wants to be some kind of wannabe gangbanger ... kinda sad. Since they don't pimp, they just say they do...morons...

i dont pimp and i dont say i do

most guys dont even know what a pimp really does or is

For laughs? Maybe you should try ChildMolestor, or how about RowdyRapist? Funny...ha....ha...

saying your a pimp is another way of saying you are badass

Originally posted by Tronics
Cuz it be gangsta yo! ... every little immature kid/man wants to be some kind of wannabe gangbanger ... kinda sad. Since they don't pimp, they just say they do...

and no one here was ever a teenager?? did you all just skip over that period in your life when belonging and being cool was all that mattered??

luckily for me, i was a gym-rat and a nerd, so i'm anti-cool all the way. but i know that most of you weren't/aren't.

"those in glass houses..."

yes, kids are stupid to do it. pimps are rather awful people, but in Hip Hop culture, being pimp has come to signify wealth and high status (as pimps are some of the wealthiest people in ghettos). you hear "those kicks are PIMP", meaning that someone thinks you have nice shoes.

children are slaves to media culture. in time, they stop being children, and grow out of it. until then, take it with a grain of salt, and some understanding.

Wakeech you look like a pimp in that photo you posted of yourself on the other 'post a pic of yourself' thread. :-) Not that bad...

j/k

Wakeech, I understand all that, but I haven't decided for myself whether it is better to sit silently as our culture is degraded and hip hop sensibilities become accepted as social norms. Yes, we were all young and dumb and the elders of our community tried to teach us and make us better people.

Just because the hip hop/MTV/baggy pants/hos and pimp mentality is all the rage doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Originally posted by LesPaul
Wakeech, I understand all that, but I haven't decided for myself whether it is better to sit silently as our culture is degraded and hip hop sensibilities become accepted as social norms. Yes, we were all young and dumb and the elders of our community tried to teach us and make us better people.

Just because the hip hop/MTV/baggy pants/hos and pimp mentality is all the rage doesn't mean it's a good thing.

Amen to that.

Originally posted by revhappy
Amen to that.

but the grunge movement, with the drugs, existential angst, depression, and self-loathing was ok??

what about that gosh-darned rock 'n roll through the 1950's?? and oh, the whole sexual revolution thing in the 60's... disco (with the drugs and promiscuous sex, which still is a huge part of youth culture today) in the 70's...

youth culture in America has always been "a problem". either realise that this is no better or worse than anything else that's come before it, or just close your eyes and do your best not to worry.

Originally posted by wakeech
but the grunge movement, with the drugs, existential angst, depression, and self-loathing was ok??

what about that gosh-darned rock 'n roll through the 1950's?? and oh, the whole sexual revolution thing in the 60's... disco (with the drugs and promiscuous sex, which still is a huge part of youth culture today) in the 70's...

youth culture in America has always been "a problem". either realise that this is no better or worse than anything else that's come before it, or just close your eyes and do your best not to worry.

They were not championing violent crime. That's not to say every or even most of the people that take part in the hip-hop culture support this, but you can not deny the celebration of the gangster lifestyle. Anyway, its not new, NWA was doing this when I was in High School.

Its a free country and people can do what they want. I wish people could just enjoy the music and not have to get so wrapped up in it emotionally (i.e. trying to become a "thug"), but that's just a natural tendency of adolescents.

Grrrr....Hate these topics. But so fun to comment anyway..lol. I'm with you LesPaul. I don't think I'll ever understand it. Doesn't help when the youth of today conform to stereotypes that are already out there. Just one example......White kids that have no sense of themselves, so they decide to try and imitate the African-American hip-hop culture and make it their own. I don't think I'll ever understand it. I generally consider myself to be an extreme liberal, but degrading oneself by not having your own identity and just going falling in with the crowd disgusts me. 'Course, I guess I can see the other side of it. Kids want to fit in and not standout. They are afraid of being treated differently by having their own views and personality. I fear it will always be that way as well. :(

Originally posted by revhappy
They were not championing violent crime.

hahaha... c'mon man, tell me that makes a difference. what about the biker-tough guy thing?? what's his name... buddy made "Rebel Without A Cause", died right after (street racing or something??)... you know who i mean...

oh, and let's not forget the slew of "copy cat murders" which followed Oscar Peterson's big hit of "Mack The Knife"... it's just not true that because this culture champions these ghetto thugs that most kids think it's a brilliant idea to grab a gun and rob a 7-11. white culture has yuppified the whole thing so much that it's not even about ghetto life anymore, but about cars, women, booze, drugs, money... they rarely even talk about killing people anymore. Death Row records is long gone, the romance about gang-related stuff is old.

Originally posted by wakeech
hahaha... c'mon man, tell me that makes a difference. what about the biker-tough guy thing?? what's his name... buddy made "Rebel Without A Cause", died right after (street racing or something??)... you know who i mean...

oh, and let's not forget the slew of "copy cat murders" which followed Oscar Peterson's big hit of "Mack The Knife"... it's just not true that because this culture champions these ghetto thugs that most kids think it's a brilliant idea to grab a gun and rob a 7-11. white culture has yuppified the whole thing so much that it's not even about ghetto life anymore, but about cars, women, booze, drugs, money... they rarely even talk about killing people anymore. Death Row records is long gone, the romance about gang-related stuff is old.

The violent crime glorification pervades much more of the genre. Sure, alot of 80's rock and metal talked about hooking up with lots of chics, etc, but it was never so real-world violent.

Look, I'm not one of these censor proponents, but if you aspire to be a ghetto-thug ,whether it be gangster of dethro style or the more cribs-style acts, you tend to have the chip on the shoulder attitude. This is the problem IMHO. Again, not all fans do that, but the ones that rreally become part of the hip-hop culture become that way.

I was in traffic court recently in a rural, white area. Nearly all of the defendents in the non-traffic related cases were young kids...with this look and atitude. Almost all of them were white and well-off.

lespauls, u sound like bill o'reily talking about rap.

you're very closed minded and have no idea what your talking about. "it aint nuthin but music", they do what they need to do to sell records. when rappers talk about pimpin and sh1t in their music, they dont mean it literally and only closed minded people with no sense of humour like yourselves would interpit it as bad.










pimps up, ho's down

I remember in 1991 my uncle asking me what all this "grunge" crap was all about... he said he didnt like it, didnt understand it and furthermore couldnt fathom why you would want to look like a homeless person.

I simply said, the fact that you don't like it, can't relate with it, is exactly the point.

He never had a problem with grunge again.

Morale of the story, you all are old :). Go get them gosh durn whippersnappers and thier crazy music and lack of style.

why i remember back in ought-2 .... (ok ill stop now)

Originally posted by LesPaul

Just because the hip hop/MTV/baggy pants/hos and pimp mentality is all the rage doesn't mean it's a good thing.

well cmon we had MTV in the early 80's too. 60's counterculture, 70's long hair, bell bottom jeans, disco, 80's grunge, punk. if you were young now you'd probably think it was cool and be right in the mix. none of it is neccessarily a good thing. but we had to live through it.

Originally posted by tribal azn2
lespauls, u sound like bill o'reily talking about rap.

you're very closed minded and have no idea what your talking about. "it aint nuthin but music", they do what they need to do to sell records. when rappers talk about pimpin and sh1t in their music, they dont mean it literally and only closed minded people with no sense of humour like yourselves would interpit it as bad.



pimps up, ho's down


tribal, I'll bet in 10 years you'll be looking at the kids that will be your current age then, and probably feel the same. It's amazing how quickly we all forget how we felt about things when we were teenagers, but then, I am also amazed at what a moron people 10 years older than me must have thought I was as well(and in some cases, they were probably right).

Things change. Everything is just a giant circle in the end. Teenagers will always think adults are stupid, and vice-versa.

Try and tell me that anything here has to do with expression or the individual and I'll laugh hard and long. It's just youth exploitation ... there's money in it and they're all suckers for perceived self expression.

You have to keep coming up with something new - music, movies, clothes - to keep the money machines rolling. It's a disease of a mass media driven society.

This is why it is different today, why it's not just "oh, these crazy kids" of every generation: mass media.

In the past the "rebels" were on the fringe. Small groups on the egde of society doing there thing. Now, this fringe element is seen on TV and movies (Kill Bill!!), heard on radio, downloaded on the net, glorified in the malls and the fringe is becoming a much larger segment of society. Their influence is much more significant than in previous generations.

And why celebrate crimes, cruelty and a disregard for the rules of our language? Surely this significant negative influence on our culture is not a good thing. Guys like our friend Tribal don't even realize what's happening to them because they think they are cool and anyone that disagrees is out of touch.

Why not celebrate our women instead of degrading them? Why not master the English language instead of butchering it? To dismiss it as "just kids" or "just music", when it has such a huge impact on our entire society (unlike the fringe bad guys of the past) is to fiddle while Rome burns.

Those of us to think that tolerance and wisdom compels us to accept this crap because it is inevitable or we don't want to be viewed as "old" or "uncool" do so at our own peril.

The Mass Media, that uses Freedom of Speech, is not the issue. The Mass Media is a very opportune outlet for Capitalism.

To say that "rebels were on the fringe" is also incorrect. What about the Zoot Suit from the 1940's. That trend of "rebels" began in Chicago, yet the actual Zoot Suit riots took place in Los Angeles. Was it more of a grass roots movement? Perhaps, but the media of the period, and simple word of mouth, was enough to spread the trend from coast to coast.

I don't particularly like, or listen to Hip Hop or Gangsta Rap, but I suspect that many listen to it for the simple reason that it is on the edge. In some cases, it allows the individual to live in a world they would never dare normally live in. Hip Hop is about self-confidence, and portraying the image of being in control.

Most people have seen Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho etc...but we didn't go out and kill anyone as a result. Anyone that is so influenced by the media that they begin to act based on it has personal issues that proceeded their actions, or their media exposure.

Originally posted by Kev
Try and tell me that anything here has to do with expression or the individual and I'll laugh hard and long. It's just youth exploitation ... there's money in it and they're all suckers for perceived self expression.

You have to keep coming up with something new - music, movies, clothes - to keep the money machines rolling. It's a disease of a mass media driven society.
I know some anti-car green-type folks who would say exactly the same about my RX-8. No-one needs that much power, it drinks an obscene amount of gas and what's all that flashy show-off styling in aid of. And why glorify speed, which kills people. Is my car part of my self-expression or is Mazda exploiting me to make a profit?

I don't think simply offering something for sale to someone constitutes exploitation - it's just capitalism. Capitalism may have it's darker side (the real exploitation, inequality and poverty) but the oportunities it gives people to spend their time and money doing stupid, pointless and decadent things (i.e. having fun) is part of its good side, in my opinion.

Making this an issue is another way of glorifying these rappers you speak of with so much disdain. Growing up with this music i also see the flaws that you speak of. But it's not all about pimpin and slappin hoes. By makin this an issue you forget about all the other rappers that do stand up for women and appreciate the women of our cultures. i.e. Common, Nas, and 2pac to name a few. It's not that these rappers are trying to instill the values of murder and pimpin into our culture. It's our culture that's that gives them the notion that they can. They are "cool" in the sense that they are the anti-heroes. They are glorified the same way Scarface is glorified, or a movie about Car thieves is great. It's because it's out of the norm and it's what most people can't do. On another note. Other rappers talk about this ghetto lifestyle to inform the rest of the world what's going on in our streets. It's a cry for help. If you put it on the media enough, maybe someday someone will do something about it.
Just my two cents. I can't wait till hip hop is uncool. When im 60 and I want to listen to music and my grandchildren are looking at they're grandpa saying WTF? By the way this is from an 18 year old who loves hip hop and rap. Isn't it obvious?

Originally posted by Red Devil
The Mass Media, that uses Freedom of Speech, is not the issue. The Mass Media is a very opportune outlet for Capitalism.

To say that "rebels were on the fringe" is also incorrect. What about the Zoot Suit from the 1940's. That trend of "rebels" began in Chicago, yet the actual Zoot Suit riots took place in Los Angeles. Was it more of a grass roots movement? Perhaps, but the media of the period, and simple word of mouth, was enough to spread the trend from coast to coast.

I don't particularly like, or listen to Hip Hop or Gangsta Rap, but I suspect that many listen to it for the simple reason that it is on the edge. In some cases, it allows the individual to live in a world they would never dare normally live in. Hip Hop is about self-confidence, and portraying the image of being in control.

Most people have seen Psycho, Silence of the Lambs, American Psycho etc...but we didn't go out and kill anyone as a result. Anyone that is so influenced by the media that they begin to act based on it has personal issues that proceeded their actions, or their media exposure.

I posted before i read your post. Although I provide different examples, I completely agree with you.

So what's next? If we try to project the trend that glorifies violence, criminal sex, bad English and the whole ball of wax, what do we see in five, ten, fifteen years? As we push the boarder of acceptable and unacceptable what kind of culture and entertainment will we evolve into to thrill the "kids"? You youngens, what will your kids be doing to freak you out?

Life sex acts on MTV (not far from what Britney does now)? Snuff films at BlockBuster? Carlin's seven words on billboards? Songs promoting murder? (oh, we already have that.)

Will we have created a society where reading, study of religion, art, philosophy, history will be seen as "gey" or "retarded" or "lame"? Where among these huge numbers of affected kids will come anyone that can make this world a better place?

I'm a product of hip hop culture, but I turned out just fine. It's not because of the music or the media. I turned out fine because of good child rearing. You shouldn't be worried about what children see in the mediaY you should be worried about what the parents are doing to teach children moral values. I've had to go through people close to me dying because or street life but i didn't fall into the holes that they went through because of my parents and family.
Apparently you negelct to see the knowledge that comes out of hip hop. Rappers have been known to refer back to history and quote great leaders of the past. So knowledge is actually perceived as "cool"

Les, as i said before, it really is no different now than it was when you were a kid.

marginally speaking, are university applications increasing or decreasing?? are there more or less kids (on the margin) finishing highschool?? are there more or less kids (on the margin) participating in extra-cirricular activities??

don't be so naiive as to think that the rebels, the real fringe kids, are the ones who partake in the media driven "rebel youth culture": they reject it. so then media culture will slowly begin to relfect the "anti-cool" sentiment, and the fringe will move in another direction to be "anti-anti-cool"... these are people like me who stay the hell away from Top 40 discos and go to the small-club shows, the underground fringe stuff. the big picture does not escape those with a mind...

this whole glorification of sex, violence and "misuse" (tread lightly there friend ;) there are a number of linguists who'd take issue with that...) of the language is again nothing new. you've always had biker gangs, you've always had seedy inner-city thugs and mobsters, you've always had criminals to whom there is attached a sense of romance like a Capone or Gotti. in prohibition days what was the music like?? what was the message?? sex and booze. violence was part and parcel of getting that booze, part of "making it".

i think your perception of the goings-on in the city and with these rap stars is skewed into believing that they're far more criminal and violent than they really are. they go to jail for the same things rock stars and star atheletes have always gone to jail for. none of these people are a self-destructive as Kurt Cobaine ever was, nor do they project the image as fervently. they are now business people: all they talk about is making money, "making it". how they do it these days, though, is through the "rap game" or whatever else they're trying to tell you is so great. gangsta-rap is dead, it's gone; it was a flash in the pan of the early-to-mid 1990's. bling-bling is now the "cool", and isn't the same thing.

check ur pm wakeech,

Oh BTW jsut so you guys don't think so... I hate that bling bling crap. I don't wear baggy pants and wear big white shirts. I don't dream on driving on 20 inch rims although it ould be nice to be able to. I listen to all kinds of music but I love hip hop. Not just mainstream but mostly underground stuff. The MC who works at your local videostore kinda stuff. I am open to all kinds of music. I for one listen to country, punk, rock. Anything that floats my boat.

Actually, it started in the inner city, same way as cars with really loud subs.....as a way to get attention, to rise above the "herd"
to get the respect from certian circles which only comes with power.

So, the rap community immitates it, (after all, money, power and women are a strong pull) it appeals to the young, then attracks marketing and then spreads.

the good thing is it then becomes "co-opted" by mainstream society, which acts to diffuse the danger..

At least thats what marcuse, would say. I will get the right spelling of his name, he was a french neomarxist philosopher from the 40 and 50s, pretty good stuff for the most part, at least, his views on capitalist society...in some areas he goes astray.

And Les, I am 100% with you, why not "thats so pedo"
or "honda killa"

I hate to sound like an old man, but I really love being lectured by impolite kids 20 years younger then me, with half the education and no life experience....talking about events that happened before they were born which had to be lived through to understand....

We sure are sliding toward the abyss..and so it seems is my spelling .....:)

Hi all. Seems everyone's got a view.

Me 2 cents...

Can anyone imagine what'll be cool/in during the next generation or 2?

My dad says Elvis & Beatles were considered 'the work of the devil' in their time...

Jus food 4 thot...

And keep eating carrots!!!

Originally posted by klegg
I hate to sound like an old man, but I really love being lectured by impolite kids 20 years younger then me, with half the education and no life experience....talking about events that happened before they were born which had to be lived through to understand....

We sure are sliding toward the abyss..and so it seems is my spelling .....:)

if you love it so, i think i'll keep going ;)

but sir, even with your doubly large education and infinitely greater amount of life experience, you seem to pretend to understand this, another event which as you say "must be lived through to understand"?? c'mon man ;)

and yet, you protest that "this is different", without proof or example of exactly how this is true. as i said a few times before, violence, sex, drugs, deliquancy, crime... these have all been things romanticised throughout 20th Century western culture.

Okay. You've convinced me. I'm wrong.

It may be that my concern, what I see in the news, is not the decline of a once great civilization but rather part of the normal maturity process of human beings.

Perhaps as we outgrow childhood we find this information (violence, criminal sex, bad language) exciting. It gets our hormones and endorphins surging and it's a rush. It is also different from the rules of our father's house, so it helps us create our unique identity. Soon, after repeated and saturated exposure to the "dark side", it looses its appeal. It is not as exciting and the rush fades. Then we fall back into the accepted rules of societal behavior: do good, help people.

All is well with the world and this next generation of people will offer great things to humanity. There is hope.

I like that and choose to believe it. For now.

Originally posted by klegg
I hate to sound like an old man, but I really love being lectured by impolite kids 20 years younger then me, with half the education and no life experience....talking about events that happened before they were born which had to be lived through to understand....

I'm with you klegg. If these guys know so much now just think how much more they will know in 20 years.

I put the 'impin in pimpin'. It is just slang and not ment to glorify the abuse of women. There are to many examples of words being said that mena really bad shit, but are now used as a "cool" word. Doesn't really bother me.

A few times the improper and misuse of the English language has been mentioned. To say that Hip Hop is destroying the language is absurd.

Through studying rhetoric and semantics, anyone can see how much the English language has evolved over the centuries years. Slang will come and go, but some will remain and become a permanent fixture of the language.

How many of us have read Beowulf, Shakespeare or Chaucer? And how many of us, at least at first, needed translation? All of us did.

The only rule I know of in the English language that has never changed is that a sentence should express a single, complete thought. And even the lines there are blurred.

Originally posted by Red Devil
A few times the improper and misuse of the English language has been mentioned. To say that Hip Hop is destroying the language is absurd.

Through studying rhetoric and semantics, anyone can see how much the English language has evolved over the centuries years. Slang will come and go, but some will remain and become a permanent fixture of the language.

How many of us have read Beowulf, Shakespeare or Chaucer? And how many of us, at least at first, needed translation? All of us did.

The only rule I know of in the English language that has never changed is that a sentence should express a single, complete thought. And even the lines there are blurred.

Actually, I read them and did not need a translation..but by then I had the benefit of some amazing supplemental education..just not in spelling;)

Wakeech.....you are young, and full of fire. That is good, as you have the drive to address what YOU BELEIVE are socitys wrongs

It is bad, as you lack the life experiance to truly understand what needs to be addressed and how.

I have seen a large declined in our young people In the last 15 years. The last 10 have really been bad.

Now, I am basing this on my interaction with kids in trouble who are seeking out legal help. The last 10 years has seen a marked increase in crimes in this age group, at least from what has come through my door.

Also, the nature of the trouble has increased from simple"kids being kids" to violent crimes, high end drugs, rape, weapons violations, ect.

And remember, I live in a hick town in the woods!!

I can only look at the images young people are innudated with by way of the media, of all types as the cause, in addition to the lack of real role models.

That is an observation that comes from my direct involvement as an attorney, in addition to the fact I am about 20 years or so older, and so have seen a lot more then someone younger, like yourself. I know "walk a mile in my shoes" but that is a two way street...and you would be rather sad to know what my younger years were really like, and the things I have lived through...but enough about that.

And yes, I know that age that does not, in itself make me wiser..

Sometimes, you have to let people find these things out for themselves..it would be neat to talk to you in 10 years or so, just to see how much you may have changed..hopefully, we will get that chance.

:)

Originally posted by wakeech
what's his name... buddy made "Rebel Without A Cause", died right after (street racing or something??)... you know who i mean...


James Dean

I think everyone who posted on this thread should watch "Tupac: Resurrection" It has great insight on the question "Why Pimps?"

You don't have to be a fan of Tupac or rap in general. It's a great documentary and an interesating look into someones thoughts and life.

I love that man more than anything. He is the greatest and really spoke thoughts that needed to be stated.

Originally posted by SikRedRX-8
I love that man more than anything. He is the greatest and really spoke thoughts that needed to be stated.

Then I'm sure you'll love this movie.

Originally posted by SikRedRX-8
I love that man more than anything. He is the greatest and really spoke thoughts that needed to be stated.

I am only familer with news clips, which do not make him look very good. How about some Examples?

did u asnwer my pm klegg?

Originally posted by klegg
I am only familer with news clips, which do not make him look very good. How about some Examples?

Watch the movie... You'll get some answers.