Has anyone put on the pro charger kit? or know any details on it. From the site i found it on they put it on a stock ride w/o tunning it and got a ruff 303 whp and around 200 tq any buddy got more info on this system

without tuning for fuel/spark control you cant make power like that, you'll destroy the motor as the stock PCM maps cant handle boost(or much of it) on its own

probably thats with their base tune, meaning YOU dont have to go and have it tuned... there is some stuff on the site here if you look about this kit i think

there is a big tread on it search for dna procharger..

maztrix got one and have them for sale. but it seems they have really got it running..

i think a few are running in aus.

beers :beer:

ya mazdatrix is where i found the info for it i was woundering if any one had this set up and if they like it

not in the usa to what i have seen.

beers :beer:

Not sure what the advantage of this unit over a Pettit would be. Centrifugal SC's are not the best for small, low tq. engines.

ok well im going to be saving up and this is what i think i will be getting anyways

I say embrace the high RPM power band of the rotary and stop trying to change it by using a twin-screw type supercharger. The procharger will deliver power all the way to 9K+ RPM's and do it with cool air and do it very smoothly. If I wanted low end torque I would have bout a GTO, but I want a 9K RPM red line.

I say embrace the high RPM power band of the rotary and stop trying to change it by using a twin-screw type supercharger. The procharger will deliver power all the way to 9K+ RPM's and do it with cool air and do it very smoothly. If I wanted low end torque I would have bout a GTO, but I want a 9K RPM red line.

i would say search the treads, and wonder why it is not running in the usa?

beers :beer:

i would say search the treads, and wonder why it is not running in the usa?

beers :beer:

:iwstupid: :)

I say embrace the high RPM power band of the rotary and stop trying to change it by using a twin-screw type supercharger. The procharger will deliver power all the way to 9K+ RPM's and do it with cool air and do it very smoothly. If I wanted low end torque I would have bout a GTO, but I want a 9K RPM red line.

I would understand a centrifugal on a traction limited high tq car like a Mustang, or Vette where traction off the line is already an issue, so that hp & tq builds linearly. But for our cars most people want more low & mid range tq. The Twin Screw SC gives tq pretty much across the board. It's not like a Twin Screw is going to limit tq & RPM, or drop off at the top. If you look at the power delivery curve of the Procharger, pretty much most of the power takes place in the 6000-9000 RPM range.

To each their own I guess.

get a MM/BHR turbo kit instead, you will not regret it I'm sure

For a track car, I think a centrifugal would be a logical option. And of all the types of SCs, this would by far be the easiest to package...factory manifold, throttle body location, etc...

I've already researched the Mazdatrix Procharger. Honestly, yes they are built for cars that have enough problems getting their wheels to catch traction naturally aspirated (a Corvette is a great example). The C-2 Procharger is pretty over-priced compared to other kits, and while the horsepower numbers may be competitive, the torque figures are (and never will be) anywhere near other kits. If you're addicted to 150 revolutions a second, the Petit Supercharger and Esmeril Turbocharger seem great. However keep in mind that the GReddy (by far the cheapest way to go force fed) will go to 9K rpm, its just at around 7500 rpm the boost levels will drop down to their factory settings regardless of what you've done with a boost controller or waste gate. Frankly I wouldn't supecharge the RX8. Turbochargers have been proven to outperform any supercharger on the market at any rpm in torque (which is the whole reason you buy a supercharger is for low end torque) for this car. Also a turbo won't hurt your gas mileage quite as bad.

get a MM/BHR turbo kit instead, you will not regret it I'm sure

That's only a good choice if you like torque. Some people here are adverse to having a vehicle that can accelerate strongly, so they shy away from it.

If you have not driven a procharged RX8 then how can you say it does not accelerate strongly? Have you read what people have driven it have to say? Again, I am not saying it is the fastest car but it has its place. It is a great track car and it has a stock feeling, meaning it is very smooth and predectible.

Here is a review of an 6PSI kit:
http://www.rx8club.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1214

And a second, also 6PSI
http://www.rx8club.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=444

I dont care what you do to the RX8 it is not going to accelerate like a corvette, gto or even a mustang. But just because it does not make tons of low end torque, does not mean it can not be fast.

I can spin the tires in first gear N/A and it goes through first gear in what 2 seconds? By the time you shift gears the car is in its power range mean while the turbo is still spoiling up. Sure a turbo can make full boost at 3K RPM's but just because it can, does not mean it does it in every situation. Correct me if I am wrong but a turbo wont reach full boost in 1st gear and usually not in second gear either, right? Well a procharger will.

For me, I want a track car. Sure a turbo can make more power but will it always make more power? How about on hot days when you have to turn down the boost or not go full throttle?

I could be wrong but I am just going by my personal experiance seeing what happend to other turbo charged cars while at a track and reading what other RX8 owners have experianced.

If you have not driven a procharged RX8 then how can you say it does not accelerate strongly?

200 tq is less than 260 tq. The gains of the BHR turbo kit over the ProCharger is more than the gains of the ProCharger over stock.


Correct me if I am wrong but a turbo wont reach full boost in 1st gear and usually not in second gear either, right? Well a procharger will.

Uhhh. Yeah, you're completely wrong. For my setup I was not running at the ragged edge, but at 2800 rpm I can hit 12 PSI and hold it there to redline. It does this in every gear. Why would it not? We're tied to exhaust flow, not what gear you're in. If I wanted more power, I could of course increase boost to 14 psi or whatever I wanted, but given the nature of the renesis, I had no desire to squeeze every drop from the engine and risk damage.


Sure a turbo can make more power but will it always make more power?

Yes, it's more efficient, it has less losses. It should always make more power. Now, I'll grant you that some types of SC can make more power in the 1,000 to 2,400 rpm range, but given that the car is making 40 whp supercharged in that range, it really doesn't amount to anything. If I was drag racing, I would not be releasing the clutch in 1,000 rpm, all I'd need to do is drop the clutch from 3,000 rpm and I'll be making more whp and more torque than the SC.

Don't take my word for it, go pull up an online 1/4 calculator that takes into account trans/diff gearing, vehicle weight, aerodynamics (.31) and see what having 250 torque gives you over 200 torque. The difference is not trivial.

I think torque has something to do with acceleration.

Okay, so I am wrong about how fast your turbo is spooling up and getting to full boast. I was speaking from the experiance I have had with turbocharged vehicles.

Dont get me wrong, I think that the turbo rx8's are very fast and can probably make more power in most situations, but everyone is judging the DNA procharger kit on 1 mazdatrix Non-tunned, week motor, 6psi dyno pull. The kit can proform much better. Look at the DNA motorsports dyno charts. Now I dont know how to read torque on there charts, but a stock RX8 gets about 140-150 HP and a procharged 10PSI kit is breaking 300HP, that is a 100% increase. When HP and TQ numbers are being quoted for turbo kits, everyone is using the best results from a properly tunned vehicle. It would only be fair to do the same for the DNA procharger kit, the problem is that we dont have enough data look at.

Centrifugals suck on small engines. Period. That's physics. Have fun changing those laws. Keep them on BIG engines with low redlines. That's the only place they are useful. For our engines, damn near anything is a better match.

I will agree with your statement that they suck on small engines if you mean they do not drasticly change low end power. A centrifical supercharger does however make great high RPM power and moderate low end power. But any thing that can make a 100% increase in HP at High RPM's and a 50% or more increase in torque from 4K RPM's and up does not suck. It just does not do what you want it to do. Oh and it does it at a fraction of the boost of the turbo cars.

The C-2 isn't a horrible kit, but compared to everything else out there it really is behind the power curve. I was interested in the C-2 once upon a time and everyone was all too eager to show me the error of my ways lol.

The stage 2 (the only version worth getting) is $8,000!! You could probably get the GReddy turbo kit AND the MM upgrade for that kind of cash!

Prochargers are great for cars with huge engines, more torque than they know what to do with, and have enough trouble getting out of first gear without leaving half their tires behind. That sound like an RX8 to you?

even paying msrp, you wouldn't be anywhere near 8k for greddy + mm upgrade

Point proven. And there's zero argument about the performance figures of the Mazda Maniac turbo against the C-2 procharger.

Point proven. And there's zero argument about the performance figures of the Mazda Maniac turbo against the C-2 procharger.

That's not the whole picture. The C2 can produce 1100 cfm and 24 psi. You have LOTS of headroom with that unit. The GT30 can't get anywhere close to that pushing ~700-750 cfm before hitting the choke line. At all points, per psi the C2 will be pushing more volume.

If it were me, and I wanted a ~300whp car the GT30 would be a good option. But if I were looking for a lot more to build into the RX-8 over time -- and the capabilities for high hp 400+whp RX-8s will inevitably get here -- than I'd go with the C2.

I used to be really down on centrifugal units on rotary engines...and I still don't think they are in most cases the best options, but more and more I do think they have their uses even for us...

The Esmeril T70 Turbo kit is supposed to be able to reach the 400 horsepower bench mark pushing more torque and costing $2000+ less than the C-2.

The Esmeril T70 Turbo kit is supposed to be able to reach the 400 horsepower bench mark pushing more torque and costing $2000+ less than the C-2.

I was directly comparing the GT30 to the C-2.

I think you should pick out a power goal, what kind of power delivery/driving you'll be doing...and go from there.

Ask "importshowoff84" about that 400 h.p.

Are the first words out of his mouth going to be 'apex seals'? lol.

And yeah most of the kits produce roughly the same power once you're inside the powerband, but before that is a different story. Not just considering which is making the most power at any given rpm but if you got the stage 1 C-2 you actually lose power in the low revs compared to stock, costing you mpg. The biggest turn off for me about the C-2 is the price. Would I take a procharged RX8 over a naturally aspirated RX8? Absolutely. But when you can have a more powerful kit for less money...

If you like the C-2, more power to you. If I was to spend $8000 on a forced induction kit it'd go to either the GReddy and MM upgrade, or the Esmeril T70 kit and keep the change. Thats just my 2 cents though.

If you like the C-2, more power to you. If I was to spend $8000 on a forced induction kit it'd go to either the GReddy and MM upgrade, or the Esmeril T70 kit and keep the change. Thats just my 2 cents though.

are you saying the greddy + mm is 8k? cause it seems like you can get a greddy for 4k or so, and the upgrade for under 2k. Not anywhere close to 8k.

No I find the GReddy kit for $3500ish on some sites. I meant keep the change on both. Should've been more clear on that I suppose.

Why do people feel the need to avoid the science?
Read http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=132628 and look at the torque curve.
Your vehicle's performance is directly proportional to the torque curve.
No fudging, guestimating or seat-of-the-pants measurements required.

Because we've entered into the discussion of personal preference and not objective fact.

I refuse to allow a discussion on a choice like this to be established on that basis until the quantitative results are equalized.

Lmao. And while we're on the discussion of turbos I just got smoked by an 05-06 STI. As soon as I knew what was beside me I just put my forhead on the steering wheel lol. Guy have me half a car head start and neither of us launched.

At first nothing really happened but then I heard this odd hiss...next thing I know the Subie blasts past me back-firing every couple seconds lol. I knew I was going down but against a turbocharged, performance built, track machine I think my basically stock RX8 did pretty good. Those cars go through the gears quick too! The new STI's won't be able to reach 60 till 3rd =(

Not to worry though some punk idiot wanted to race on the same trip in some Maxima R-tune. Out-revved and out powered =)

BTW, when anyones 'clearing the pipes' in an RX8, how smoothly do you guys shift?

Here's a nice vid of one: ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foI3T8dJs6Y

Nice vid. Yours?

Careful with that kill/been killed story Red. Mods may contact you about it. Why don't those Evo/STi guys race me anymore? They used to mess with me but since the porting....and even moreso with MM's Cobb re-flash........

I gotta bring my shot back on-line soon, too.

Probably a stupid question but...who/what is mods?

Nice vid. Yours?

No not mine....just happened to stumble upon it today. lol

All I know is that SC Rx8 pulled like hell on that Rx7 at the end of the clip. And it looks damn nice under the hood at the beginning.

Moderators and Administrators. This forum doesn't allow racing stories. However, we like hearing about controlled-environment comparisons that are done in a safe and legal manner.;)

I read nothing about him being on a public road. Sounds to me like that STI happened to pull up next to him at the local dragstip right RED?:lol:

lol absolutely. figured it was something like that. thanks for the heads up.

so the AP works well with naturally aspirated RX8's? Someone from RX7.net suggested the Hi-power cat back over it. His reason was 'Going with the Cobb AP without doing an exhaust really wont give you much of a gain.'

...Well neither does a cat-back...

I read nothing about him being on a public road. Sounds to me like that STI happened to pull up next to him at the local dragstip right RED?:lol:

WOW nmarz77 is good!

I heard that a supercharger is more reliable then a Turbo :lol2:

Musta been a typo and he meant to say "strip" rather than "trip"......;)

lol....now I don't know about you, but when i go to the dragstrip I always tell people I took a "trip" to the track. So therefore on the same "trip" to the track he pounded on a maxima. Okay I'll call my own :icon_bs: :)

I heard that a supercharger is more reliable then a Turbo :lol2:


Generally not true. A supercharger has more moving parts, and is always working even at idle. Superchargers also have more parasitic drag on engines than turbochargers. And even if a turbocharger does break, you can replace it with the same sized turbo for $500-$1000 (depends what turbo you're running). If something in your supercharger breaks you're going to have to replace the whole kit.

Generally not true. A supercharger has more moving parts, and is always working even at idle. Superchargers also have more parasitic drag on engines than turbochargers. And even if a turbocharger does break, you can replace it with the same sized turbo for $500-$1000 (depends what turbo you're running). If something in your supercharger breaks you're going to have to replace the whole kit.

Devildog was joking.

And as for a portion of this above...better check your information and sources...

Generally not true. A supercharger has more moving parts, and is always working even at idle. Superchargers also have more parasitic drag on engines than turbochargers. And even if a turbocharger does break, you can replace it with the same sized turbo for $500-$1000 (depends what turbo you're running). If something in your supercharger breaks you're going to have to replace the whole kit.

Yea, I just kidding around. Believe me I have read all the threads on SC vs. TB. Still haven't decided what is best for me.

Just been trolling in the aussie forum and came across this interesting post .



I've been running a supercharger from DNA/RotorMaster for 30,000km (last 20,000 at 9 1/2 psi),
and would like to clarify some mis-information about the product.
(hopefully avoiding any turbo v's Supercharger arguements)
- It's a complete kit, you don't need to spend any extra money.
- There is no lag, power delivery is simply more linier than that of a turbo.
- Most daily driving is done in the 2-6k rpm range, where the SC is only producing moderate boost.
This means they don't have the same mid range power of a turbo.
But also means reasonable fuel economy; have got over 500km to a tank highway driving.
- Still, its no slouch mid-range; at about 5500rpm my motor is producing more power than a NA car's best.
- When you want even more power, drop a gear and its there instantly.
- Thare is an induction/turbine noise. Sometimes its annoying, other times it sounds hot.
- The only problem i've ever had is a stuffed catalitic converter, which seems to happen eventually to most FI 8's.
Buy a good metal cat.. problem solved.

My tips for reliable FI...
Find a good tuning shop. Fueling, timing, etc, needs to be right, otherwise something will break.
If you notice even the most minor irregularity; drive like Mr Magoo until its sorted.
Treat your car with respect. Anything will break with abuse.






For anyone interested, my car was dyno'd in Brisbane by an independant workshop;
results are on this web page (last dyno map).
http://www.dnamotorsport.com/ProCharger/RX-8_Kit/RX-8.htm
Please no arguements about subjective dyno readings, only posting here as a guide.

This means they don't have the same mid range power of a turbo. But also means reasonable fuel economy

Huh? I guess he doesn't know a turbo is on demand.

^interesting

-Jonathan

Hey Avanti racing, what do you have to do with Avanti's. I was involved with Studebaker racing when they came out. I owned to number 4 Hawk that set 53 records at Bonniville. I wound up with a 440 inch blown big block in my own Avanti.
I think this is '68.

Looks good. For a track car, I think you made a fantastic choice. Curious to hear how the blow through setup goes for you over time.

Nice! Congrats!

Looks sweet . If you are going to fit a cold air intake -would you be better to fit the MAF to it while you are at it ?

Suggest the intercooler would look better if centralised & straightened a bit - just being picky .

Fair enough - good luck with your tuning . Looking forward to see your dyno .

/me watches Brettus salivate ;)

me - resisting urge to :balls: mysql :lol2:

I fail to be amused

cool,
keep us informed. glad the kit finally is getting used.

beers :beer:

Congrats! Please keep us updated!

Now, I had a procharger c1 for my previous car (Nissan Sentra SER Spec v) (I miss boost very much) and I found it to be AWESOME with the 2.5L engine and really short gearing.

Compared to other turbo systems it didn't make as much low end torque and gave me a very linear powerband (although I was still making 220 ft-lb of torque @ 2500rpm on a mustang dyno) and I had tons of trouble maintaining traction, but with the tuning tools available for the car (SAFC-II) it made it MUCH easier to tune than a turbo system as well.

I loved it for the ease of tuning, the unique sound it makes at idle and when you are at WOT it sounds like a jet turbine, and if you have your BOV set to vent to atmosphere when you let go of the gas it vents for a VERY long time (even in neutral!)

But for the RX8 I miss the torque, tuning is done by an accessport, and I'm not sure if the procharger would be the best kit for the $$$ for the RX8.

The Kit looks amazing, and I like the fact the oil is self contained, but low-mid range torque is awesome to have =)

the blow through MAF is very interesting. how does the std pcm know that hotter is denser? is it just a MAF calibration trick?

could you mount the MAF after the throttle in a blow through setup?

MAF = Mass AirFlow

Mass takes all aspects of the charge into consideration - temperature, density and flow.

how does it take into account density? it compensates for atmospheric variation by a sensor near the air pump vented to atmosphere. it knows temp, it is calibrated for volume, but how is the pressure factored in?

how does it take into account density? it compensates for atmospheric variation by a sensor near the air pump vented to atmosphere. it knows temp, it is calibrated for volume, but how is the pressure factored in?

Air is air, the maf and ecu do not care if it is pressurized or not. Based on the calculated load the ecu will provide X fuel and have x timing. Check the first page of the accessport thread and it is explained in more detail.

Okay, so I am wrong about how fast your turbo is spooling up and getting to full boast. I was speaking from the experiance I have had with turbocharged vehicles.

Dont get me wrong, I think that the turbo rx8's are very fast and can probably make more power in most situations, but everyone is judging the DNA procharger kit on 1 mazdatrix Non-tunned, week motor, 6psi dyno pull. The kit can proform much better. Look at the DNA motorsports dyno charts. Now I dont know how to read torque on there charts, but a stock RX8 gets about 140-150 HP and a procharged 10PSI kit is breaking 300HP, that is a 100% increase. When HP and TQ numbers are being quoted for turbo kits, everyone is using the best results from a properly tunned vehicle. It would only be fair to do the same for the DNA procharger kit, the problem is that we dont have enough data look at.

i see others point of views. facts, opinions, and otherwise...

but seriously here, if there is a better SC out there, if there was...
i'm not saying i don't love turbo's myself and the fundaments on how it works, but i do have to say i wouldn't pick/choose a turbo over a SC anyday now. now that would be extreme and just idiotic.

i have to say in this particular set-up, it really depends on the application.

say your goal is quite minimal. say your goal is to increase hp/tq without intruding into other parameters or the balance of the car. say you wanted to keep your reliability and reversibility of the mod to near stock. and lets just say your goal is 50hp or lower and axial flow SC actually made something for that at a fraction of everything to its turbo'd counterparts.

at the lightest weight added possible. without intercooler, oil lines, diminished cooling, reliability and upsetting weight balance... not ALL types of superchargers, but wouldn't the RIGHT supercharger be the correct choice?

the single only disadvantage in turbo's for our app is its complexity, and the nature of our fragile engine, and... of course, all the other tidbits that may add weight and contribute to additional heat.

all i'm trying to add is, without a major hp increase goal, a SC may find its way into the right place. and actually waiting for a nicely done packaged SC is a waiting game... and one by axial flow caught my interest.

always have wanted to put together a turbo or get a OTS kit. but i must say, dave gave me a ride, and its a decently quick SC car. mazdatrix's SC is...nice!

my 2cent

...I hope to get it installed, tunned by MM (using the AP) and dyno tested in about 1 month....

Did you complete your project?

Did you complete your project?

i think he did cuz me, him and bunch of others are doing a dyno tuning day with MM back on the 2nd of this month. even though i did not do a tune.

Did he post the dyno?

Did he post the dyno?

I think he posted it somewhere but his run only went to 7500 or something ...

I think he posted it somewhere but his run only went to 7500 or something ...

really,

never saw it! god i got to learn how to search. :lol:

beers :beer:

that thing looks mean. can't wait to hear your results

Would you say the ride and driveability is like a larger displacement NA engine?

Does anyone have an opinion on how successful one may be trying to fit the following SC kit to the RX8...These are serious new generation units currently available on Audis.

The new patented TVS(TM) design features four-lobe rotors and high-flow inlet and outlet ports that greatly enhance thermal efficiency, enabling greater volumetric capacity at higher revolutions per minute (RPM). Previous Eaton Roots-type designs featured only three-lobe rotor assemblies. The new TVS(TM) supercharger design is scalable and adaptable to virtually all engine designs.

that is not a procharger - you should start a new thread ....