I bought my RX-8 September 2003 - Sunlight Silver 6speed Grand Touring. It had most of the 'issues' Catalytic heatshield, Muffler heatshield, A/C amplifier, Headlight and tailight housings, coils replaced, spark plugs replaced twice. water pump, catalytic sonverter, complete exhaust system (the CAT fragmented and pieces were cought inside the muffler!) The console cover, the A/C knobs, and all the flashes. Somewhere around the M or N flash the car got pretty good fuel mileage - Around 20mpg, but then the O, P, S etc.. dropped it to about 17 mpg.

I never flooded it and the engine was still running strong when traded in (58,000 miles). The trade-in and resale value are pathetic, especially now with high fuel costs.

I bought a 2008 Scion XD - not as flashy, or fast or as good a handler as the RX-8, but it sips fuel and gets me from point A to point B with some nifty stuff the RX-8 lacks and there are nooks and crannys everywhere to hold Cell phone, iPOD, Blackberry, and such.

I cannot imagine owning a car like the RX-8 without this great forum, almost everytiime I had an issue and the dealer acted surprised, I was able to give clear and concise detail of symptom, cause and resolution.

I hope Mazda gets a Rotary to get 80 mpg then I might own one again someday, but for now, I refuse to support the record-profit-making oil companies. Good luck and happy motoring!

With the money you lost on the trade in...........................

The Scion will never make up for the loss.

Sorry for your loss :( .

You just put yourself at a huge loss. You could have drove the RX8 for another 3-4 years before losing as much money as you did in about 10 minutes to "save" gas.

And if you dont want to support oil companies, don't buy cars and dont buy fuel.

im trading my car in next month for a 2008 white scion tc im sick of filling up my gas too on the 8

Hope you got a really good deal on that Scion for the reasons mentioned above.

im trading my car in next month for a 2008 white scion tc im sick of filling up my gas too on the 8

Didn't you consider that when you bought the RX-8? Do people just buy cars on impulse?

i bought my rx8 because they were giving away a free 2 gig ipod with every $35,000 or greater purchase. I figured it was a great deal.

im trading my car in next month for a 2008 white scion tc im sick of filling up my gas too on the 8

have fun with that....and did you realize the tc drinks almost as much gas as an 8?....my buddy just traded from a tc to an 8 as an upgrade.....have fun with fwd

I never expect to make money on any car. least of all an RX-8. I am not compaining about it, I was just stating fact. When I bought it gas was around 1.60 a gallon, so fuel cost was no issue. You can say what you want, rationalize all you want and you can defend your purchase, but in the end the RX-8 is just a nice car, with loads of issues. The fact that Mazda just upped the warrantee AGAIN (from the original 50k, to 60k then 100K, is indicative there is a MAJOR issue with the longevity of the engine. The only other car companies that give
100k warantees are Hyundai and Chrysler - Nuff said.

Enjoy your car and I'll enjoy mine. Everyone can't have an RX-8, there isn't enough oil in the world - (just Kidding)

Haha you guys should come to Vegas, Everyone an there Mom has a big and I mean big a$$ truck or SUV :lol: ballers!

People don't realize or understand long term finances, especially with "imaginary" money so to speak. People only see the $10-20 they save at the pump. And the 3,000+ they lost on selling their car doesn't mean anything to them because its not "out of pocket" cash.... when in fact they now have to own this new car for 3-4 years before they break even back to where they would have been if they kept their car.

So now they have a crappier car and put themselves in more debt for no reason.

The better option if you wanted to save money on gas would be to take the ~3k you've already "sacrificed" and put it towards a hybrid conversion... which in 3 years you would have paid for the upgrade rather then break even to where initially...

I never expect to make money on any car.
When was any car considered an investment?


RX-8 is just a nice car, with loads of issues.

Loads of issues compared to what? The introduction of the internet for millions of people to share information makes people think cars have more issues? The RX8 is an enthusiast car for drivers... more people are going to want to get together and share experiences on these types of cars vs others.

I've owned many cars over the years and the RX8 has been the most reliable by far.


The fact that Mazda just upped the warrantee AGAIN (from the original 50k, to 60k then 100K, is indicative there is a MAJOR issue with the longevity of the engine. The only other car companies that give
100k warantees are Hyundai and Chrysler - Nuff said.

In business when you extend a warranty or guarantee, it's because problems are few and far between. You'd go bankrupt giving free repairs to every car you sold. The rotary engine is the most reliable engine around.


Enjoy your car and I'll enjoy mine. Everyone can't have an RX-8, there isn't enough oil in the world - (just Kidding)
There is way more then enough oil in the world even if we got 1mpg :)
Don't believe the hype that we're short on fossil fuels.... price has risen 300% or more in fuel in not many years... production cost and inflation may account for a 10% increase if that.

Say it with me... monopoly.

only thing i want to add is i am working in houston.. and my in cousin's husband is an oil trader.

Fact:
there is plenty of oil
Oil are all being speculated
Oil Companies are not ripping you off (a little hint, oil profit is made via volume, take the population of the world that uses gas, if they make .1 cent per gallon, they'd still make billions of dollars, they have record profit because there is record car ownership)

Myth:
we are running out of oil
Bio Fuel is the solution

You guys are so harsh on anyone who decides to trade/sell their 8. It's almost like you feel as if you've been personally insulted. The only time no one is given a hard time is when they get a "better" car (M3, Cayman, etc.).

People have all sorts of reasons for getting a new/different car. Different strokes, for different folks...right?

Buy the Access Port and get a 2 MPG increase or over a 5 buck savings per week.

You guys are so harsh on anyone who decides to trade/sell their 8. It's almost like you feel as if you've been personally insulted. The only time no one is given a hard time is when they get a "better" car (M3, Cayman, etc.).

People have all sorts of reasons for getting a new/different car. Different strokes, for different folks...right?

That's not what's going on in most of these posts. We are just trying to point out the falacy of saving money by a) trading in an RX-8 and b) buying a brand new car just to save some money at the pump.

Trading in your car is financially a bad idea, personal sales will net you thousands more. Also, purchasing a brand new vehicle that will depreciate as soon as it's driven off the lot in order to save $25-50 a month in gas money (and that's being generous) is not a good idea either. Buying a 1~2 year old certified car will get you the same warranty coverage and save you thousands of dollars depreciation.

Saving money by getting into more debt, it's the American way.

double post damn internets!

Every single day I read these "bye bye" threads from people trading away rx8 for inferior vehicles. Some of them are forced into it, while others are misguided into thinking that their new sedan, nissan350, or honda2000 is a better vehicle, when they in fact are not. Fortunately we are nice enough to allow them their fantasy reality on their final goodbye post.

As for the people who let go for "gas prices": The time to enjoy rotary is now, not later. Gas price will not go down. These $4.60 gallon are a bargain for rotary compared to what will happen in the future with $12-$15 prices. If you let go of rotary now for gas you will never come back.

Most rx8 driver know now is the time to shut up and enjoy while it last.

Looking around on the streets I can tell when people are giving up rx8 and when people are buying into rx8 depending on how many I see. Most of the recent, new-school influx into rx8 are regretting already. Some of them will be flushed out of rx8, and most of this used stock will keep exchanging hands for years due to rotarded behavior. Perhaps the rotarded who buy 2009 end up best off as long as we don't see $12-$15 too soon.

You guys are so harsh on anyone who decides to trade/sell their 8. It's almost like you feel as if you've been personally insulted. The only time no one is given a hard time is when they get a "better" car (M3, Cayman, etc.).

People have all sorts of reasons for getting a new/different car. Different strokes, for different folks...right?

The truth is, nobody cares to hear about it. Why can't people just leave rx8 quietly? Seems nobody cared to state it outright, but there it is. The problem with "don't read - don't click" logic, is that it is not possible to not click, not read. Everyone who comes to rx8club must click on everything, must read everything. That's the only way to explain how anyone made it through any one of those 17 page or 45 page topics.

Somehow, I cannot click through enough threads, cannot read enough threads, cannot redline enough, even when the power rx8 threatens to sear me to a crisp, I cannot stop myself from buying more and more gasoline. I see the $12-$15 ahead and I must focus to keep driving harder, faster, with more predicion, yet try to expend more fuel for more power constantly. There's something there that keeps saying if only I drive a little harder, it will come out and swallow me whole, and devour everything in a grand display. These "bye bye" topics keep popping up in my memory, and if only I can stay in redline long enough maybe I can erase them all, or warp the space to keep them from appearing forever.

You guys are so harsh on anyone who decides to trade/sell their 8. It's almost like you feel as if you've been personally insulted. The only time no one is given a hard time is when they get a "better" car (M3, Cayman, etc.).

People have all sorts of reasons for getting a new/different car. Different strokes, for different folks...right?

I think a lot of the ownership with this vehicle comes down to priorities and what you're expecting to get out of it.

The RX8 was my first new car purchase and like everyone else who buys a new car we expect them to hold up and not have to invest any serious money into repairing them for AT LEAST 50,000 miles. Beyond that, it's only a matter of time in some cases.

Some of the 2003-04 owners I cannot blame for wanting to get out from under their car due to the various issues of items breaking and needing repair. Still, these kinds of issues are seen on pretty much any and all first year production vehicles. Hell, look at the Mazdaspeed 6 as an example....there have been a ton of TSB's and reflashes for loss of power and other issues.

The point being, any first year production vehicle is going to have problems...period.

Some owners are simply not up to the task of dealing with a car like the RX8 that makes demands and has needs. I'm not saying the OP is this way, but a more often than not observation.

Yes, the EPA mileage readings were wrong even when I bought the car in 2005, yes the HP amounts were not as advertised...no amount of crying was going to change that and this car was too much fun to fret about 30 hp.

Again, it comes to expectations. Until technology yields a 250+ whp vehicle that gets 40mpg or higher, gas will ALWAYS be an issue with performance cars.

I admit, I was looking for something totally different when I test drove the RX8 and I knew next to nothing about the rotary engine so I'd consider myself an ignorant buyer. I just knew I loved the way the car felt and it was easy to drive. This car become what I needed, and not what I wanted. Honestly if i did it again, I'd just have bought the RX8 and avoided all the other test drives.

The key to purchasing the right vehicle comes down to expectations, research, avoiding first year models and accepting the fact that cars can and do break. Even the best kept and cared for vehicle will break if driven all the time. I'm proud to say I've got 52,000 miles with the origional tranny, motor, and the car has survived 2 phoenix summers, several track and autocross sessions and is my daily driver.

If anything, I'd trade this car in and buy another one.

As for the people who let go for "gas prices": The time to enjoy rotary is now, not later. Gas price will not go down. These $4.60 gallon are a bargain for rotary compared to what will happen in the future with $12-$15 prices. If you let go of rotary now for gas you will never come back.

That's why I'm sacrificing a bit of the sensible stuff to get an RX-8 now. As we pay like 9 dollars per gallon here already, it's not gonna be cheaper. So now is the time to get the dreamcar before it's too late. And no, it's not gonna make me money :)

One is a bit ignorant about economics if you trade in the RX-8 in a newer car JUST to save gas money.

You guys are so harsh on anyone who decides to trade/sell their 8. It's almost like you feel as if you've been personally insulted. The only time no one is given a hard time is when they get a "better" car (M3, Cayman, etc.).

People have all sorts of reasons for getting a new/different car. Different strokes, for different folks...right?

Not true, Every Car but the RX-8 sucks and thats why we are here. Anyway everyone knows the Rotary drinks Gas like a booz hound and they buy it turn right round and bitch about it to the other owners like well, US lol Dont buy a Jet if you cant afford to buy the fuel. Some People are sooooooooo smart it makes baby Jesus ->:crying:

I was a bit surprised at the gas mileage when I purchased the car as it was clearly NOT the same as it was rated. Still, it is a sports car and gets crappy mileage as a result. Again, an expectation that I had but I would have been happy to be wrong.

My issue with people selling their RX8 is these one feature buyers. Selling the RX8 just because it's bad on gas, or just because it doesn't have 300+WHP, or just cause it's this or that. Some owners just get hit over the head with repairs and bad performance...while it's sad to see them move away from Mazda I can't say I blame them.

If the RX8 held it's value, sure selling it for gas savings would make sense. On the other hand, keeping your same payments but extending your loan another 2 or 3 years isn't saving you any money. People who buy hybrids fall into this trap as it takes 5 years or more to break even with gas savings. It might look like you're spending less, but the money is just going to a different place.

When I have to start choosing between buying groceries or driving my car to work, I'll consider selling my RX8. Even then I guess I'll just have to lose some weight for better MPG!

Not to be a jackass, but I gotta say, you are going to regret selling your 8 at such a low price.

Let me explain- remember back in the good ol' days when gas was cheap and America's cars reflected that? I'm talking about the muscle car era, of course. People didn't mind burning massive amounts of fuel to keep their motors running, cuz it hardly cost them a dime. However, during the oil embargo of the 70's, many people were scared/conned/suckered into selling their beautiful/powerful gas-guzzling works of art at more than likely rock bottom prices, and opting for high mileage hondas and so on- can anyone refresh my memory on what a convertible 1970 Plymouth Cuda goes for these days? :lol:. My point is, fuel prices rise and fall all the time- for god's sake, we live in a capitalist society based on supply and demand! you shouldn't have let a few spikes in prices at the pump scare you away from such a unique and fun-to-drive car. So, if I can help anyone reading this who hasn't already ditched and burned their 8's, it would be this: learn from the past. I run into countless older guys who would love nothing better than to go back in time and stop themselves from hocking their Chevelles, 67-69 Camaros, and Chargers.

soon as i get this paid off, i'm getting a metro/sprint/bicycle/skateboard/something and at worst the rx8 will do weekend duty.. i'm keeping my 8 til i'm dead..

Sorry to see you go...others are right. The benefits of gaining fuel economy will be insignificant compared to the fun and the coolness factor of your 8. Good luck.:)

agree with just putting yourself in more/longer debt when trading in just for better gas mileage... seems like the monthly payment they make is a permanent "bill" for them much like paying for utilities and rent. guess they never paid off anything to appreciate actually owning something and not paying more interest rates and premiums...

My point is, fuel prices rise and fall all the time- for god's sake, we live in a capitalist society based on supply and demand! you shouldn't have let a few spikes in prices at the pump scare you away from such a unique and fun-to-drive car.

Sorry to have to break this to you, but you'll probably never see your previous gas prices again. I think the time when USA is excluded in high environmental taxes on gas is also going to end soon, and the demand for gas is not likely to fall much in the future. The main reason for that is that the Chinese are pumping out cars at a high pace, there used to be one million bicycles in Bejing, now I'm not so sure :)

I think it's as simple as this, if you are depending on long commutes, don't get an RX-8 if you can't afford the gas. Otherwise, keep it and love it as the dear car is it, cause the future might be Priuses ;)

As bad as the 8 is with gas mileage, i would have never gone with a scion as a replacement.

Scion's are good cars dont get me wrong but you went from a sporty car to a car 17 year old kids get that are bought by their parents because they graduated high school.

I know a someone with a TC, but shes a 17 year old white girl that can hardly see over the steering wheel.

The OP is an original owner of an RX-8...bought in 2003. A charter member in the RX-8 rotary club if you will. He has had the car for going on 5 years now and has had numerous problems with the car...least of which was gas mileage. Any other car with the problems he had would be bashed into eternity, and a lot of the problems has nothing to do with the engine.

He seems to have enjoyed it and even thanks you guys for being a great forum. And you bash him. People's situations change, like his did. He wanted a newer car, is that such a bad thing? He wanted something with more room, is that such a bad thing? And getting better gas mileage is a plus in any respect.

Personally, if I had the problems he had with a car, ANY car....I would seriously consider getting a new/different one once the warranty is up. Can't anyone say (and truly mean) good luck to him with his new purchase. After all, his "Good luck and happy motoring!" is met with:
"People don't realize or understand long term finances, especially with "imaginary" money so to speak."
"i bought my rx8 because they were giving away a free 2 gig ipod with every $35,000 or greater purchase. I figured it was a great deal."
"Didn't you consider that when you bought the RX-8? Do people just buy cars on impulse?"

While I find the technical information on this site to be incredible, the general decorum and respect is lacking. I tend to visit miata.net for intelligent discussion with people who love cars and come here for technical knowledge. However, I may start visiting one a little more.

Most of us are trying to point out the facts that the oddball reasoning in getting the new car to save money on gas is not saving money at all.

It's like saying, he guys i'm going to trade in my super hot wife with fake boobs and a perfect 10 body, for a short and average chick that i save $10 a week on because she likes to stay in on friday nights. (Meanwhile your first super hot wife that everyone wanted, took half your shit when she left).

If people traded cars in at the first sign of a problem or issue, no one in the world would keep a car longer then 2-3 weeks.

they are getting on to him because he traded a perfectly good car and went into more debt just to gain a few mpg. it doesn't make any sense from a monetary point. with the money he lost on the trade, he could have bought a beater and kept the 8. they are not mad at him for getting rid of the car. they just know he could have done better.

But if you're looking to keep a car long term your money way ahead 8 years down the line. Switching from the RX. Based on my driving and consumption I could take a car like the Mini and be ahead after 3 yrs.

I myself like the RX but this poor guy had a laundry list of what went wrong with his, maybe he just wants a car that will run with out the headaches and repair issues. This is a personal preference matter that has no wrong or right choices.

I would also be very interested to hear about this "$3K hybrid conversion" for the RX you speak of. Please elaborate.


People don't realize or understand long term finances, especially with "imaginary" money so to speak. People only see the $10-20 they save at the pump. And the 3,000+ they lost on selling their car doesn't mean anything to them because its not "out of pocket" cash.... when in fact they now have to own this new car for 3-4 years before they break even back to where they would have been if they kept their car.

So now they have a crappier car and put themselves in more debt for no reason.

The better option if you wanted to save money on gas would be to take the ~3k you've already "sacrificed" and put it towards a hybrid conversion... which in 3 years you would have paid for the upgrade rather then break even to where initially...

Maybe he didn't want a beater...

Plus his 8 was probably already paid off. You don't know what his commute is like. If he drives a lot it might in fact be cheaper. You guys are rushing judgment too quickly. Ya'll don't know enough.

I did my homework before buying my '07 last year, BN.

I waited a few years until Mazda worked out the bugs. I've had none of the issues that the OP experienced. :) I am premixing at half the recommended rate, as insurance against long-term internal engine wear, but that's mostly for psychological reasons on my part.

My 8 was purchased as a recreational vehicle, not a DD, so mileage isn't an issue. Many people own airplanes, campers, etc., that gulp gas, but it is considered a recreational expense. I only drive my 8 4,000 miles per year, at most, and it's garaged for winter. I bet I spend a lot less on gas than most people do on movies, concerts, etc. It just depends on what you enjoy doing and how you choose to spend your leisure dollars. I choose to spend some of it on a tank or two of gas for my 8 every month. And I get about 18 mpg combined city/highway driving. Not as good as my DD, but then because it's a weekend "fun car", it's not an issue.

I also plan to keep this car for as long as possible. It could very well be the last brand-new car I ever purchase. Resale isn't an issue. At least for me, my daughter can sell it once I've been buried. Or drive it herself, it will probably have less than 80k on it when I am too old to drive or dead! lol.

I don't think this post came from a place of blame or throwing words on the car, he clearly loved the car and missed it despite its obvious negatives but we all know every car has negatives.

We just choose to embrace ours as the positives far outweigh them.

All I can say therefore is thanks for being a part of the community we wish you all the best in your new one.

To the OP. You do what you think is right for your situation. I for one probably won't even put a "See yah" post on the board as unless you get an M3 or something everyone rags on you.

Um you can buy another car and save money. I currently have about $8k equity left in my car (had $14k from my last vehicle). Thats to be expected after only 2 years with the type of demand these cars have.

I can currently buy a Civic LX for a little over $16k invoice and with the mileage and gas costs I could pay it off in 2 years (1 year less than my current loan) for $20 less per month than I'm paying now (had I known gas prices would be this high I would have been able to just buy one in cash 2 yrs ago). Not that I would at the moment. Then after another year or so of saving money (roughly $525/month factoring in fuel) I could buy a used cayman, Z4, elise, etc (all of which get better mpg than an RX8 btw).

We hit $6 a gal and I will consider it. The 3 year penalty box would be tough though.

soon as i get this paid off, i'm getting a metro/sprint/bicycle/skateboard/something and at worst the rx8 will do weekend duty.. i'm keeping my 8 til i'm dead..

agreed....

But if you're looking to keep a car long term your money way ahead 8 years down the line. Switching from the RX. Based on my driving and consumption I could take a car like the Mini and be ahead after 3 yrs.

I myself like the RX but this poor guy had a laundry list of what went wrong with his, maybe he just wants a car that will run with out the headaches and repair issues. This is a personal preference matter that has no wrong or right choices.

I would also be very interested to hear about this "$3K hybrid conversion" for the RX you speak of. Please elaborate.

Many hybrid conversions of conventional piston engines are in the 5-7k range, the majority of cost is on the high pressure tank and labour due to each conversion being "custom".

While you can get tanks that cost $10,000 - 20,000.. a decent size CF tank would cost $800-1,500. The rest would be spent on regulator/lines/piggy back ecu. While some would always pay someone else to do the work, most of us don't.

Although it would be interesting if mazda decided to offer kits or parts for sale that they have already produced.

Maybe he didn't want a beater...

Plus his 8 was probably already paid off. You don't know what his commute is like. If he drives a lot it might in fact be cheaper. You guys are rushing judgment too quickly. Ya'll don't know enough.

true :icon_no2:

Just leave him alone..you f-ing losers! It's his car.....he should be allowed to do whatever he wanted with it. If he wanted to pee on it, he could for all we care.....

All rub horse shit all over................he could do that also...... !!! or talk shit about it......... What do we care...??

Why are you guys defending or arguing with him??? Are you losers that insecure about your cars??

If you're confident and secure about your car, you don't need to say a word!!! Do you hear?? A WORD!

... i'm keeping my 8 til i'm dead..

+1
Off topic:
Even if i was to all of the sudden come into a large sum of $ or get a hella promotion, the 8 would still remain in my fleet...with some sick upgrades though:) Unless its pretty much paid off, there is really no financial gain from selling the 8. You buy an 8 you better be in for the long haul or you will fo sho lose money.

On topic: the guy bought a car that fit his lifestyle and personality, good for him. Not everyone is cut out to own an 8, until you have exprienced it, you dont know shit!

sorry to see u go, but congrats on the new car since it makes u happy. to my knowledge, the only production car that could get 80MPG was the honda insight. and they don't even make those any more.

I hope Mazda gets a Rotary to get 80 mpg then I might own one again someday, but for now, I refuse to support the record-profit-making oil companies. Good luck and happy motoring!

I hope Mazda gets a Rotary to get 80 mpg then I might own one again someday, but for now, I refuse to support the record-profit-making oil companies. Good luck and happy motoring!

Gotta love knee-jerk reaction. I think you have been schooled enough about the fact that you will not recoup the depreciation loss with a so-called fuel efficient car.
But the bolded sentence got me thinking, if this is your principle, then perhaps you might want to not drive altogether and take the transit or cycle. Now that will make a better stand.
Anyhow enjoy the tC. It's a nice car. Quite sporty looking.

soon as i get this paid off, i'm getting a metro/sprint/bicycle/skateboard/something and at worst the rx8 will do weekend duty.. i'm keeping my 8 til i'm dead..

I feel ya. Thats why I'm looking for a Miata under $3K :(
:patriot:

Just leave him alone..you f-ing losers! It's his car.....he should be allowed to do whatever he wanted with it. If he wanted to pee on it, he could for all we care.....

I think you missed the point. The point was that mileage was his main stated reason for swapping, it then becomes unlikely that a new car will improve the cost unless he buys it cash, which he might, but it's still not weird that people say it, because it seems that many people get fooled by the bank managers bills :)

i wonder how do people buy this car without putting MPG into consideration.

i wonder how do people buy this car without putting MPG into consideration.

Because 15mpg at 2.00 a gallon is a lot different than 4.09 a gallon. Or higher.

soon as i get this paid off, i'm getting a metro/sprint/bicycle/skateboard/something and at worst the rx8 will do weekend duty.. i'm keeping my 8 til i'm dead..
I totally agree with bigireland. I plan on keeping my car for as long as I live. Modifying, learning, and rebuilding my rotary car to my image. So instead I will buy a second car in the future and park my antique Rx8 if I have to. Heck car insurance is cheaper with my Rx8 than my 2003 toyota Sequoia when I used to drive it.

Because 15mpg at 2.00 a gallon is a lot different than 4.09 a gallon. Or higher.

Is it really?

Even if you had to fill up once a week every week. That's only ~$32 more dollars per tank, which adds up to a whopping $1,664 a year. If a $1600 swing in annual expenses is really that painful, then a gas hog sports car was never a good idea to begin with.

For reference, my cable+internet bill adds up to more than that.

Why not just wait to pay it off and then buy another car likea toyota prius thats what i am gonna do.. or a motorcycle..

i got a killer deal on my 8 =]]

7.9 interest rate! 2K Down payment..

35K out the door fully loaded (except navigation) and the appearence package..

100K/6yr extended warranty.. but i pay 624 a month =[[[[

but im happy just as long as the interest rate is pretty decent..

I cant imagine losing money on my car.. they make it seem like your getting a deal but your not..
it slike covering up a wound with a bandaid..

7.9% interest rate is not a killer deal at all.

(not to be a dick or anything)

Is it really?

Even if you had to fill up once a week every week. That's only ~$32 more dollars per tank, which adds up to a whopping $1,664 a year. If a $1600 swing in annual expenses is really that painful, then a gas hog sports car was never a good idea to begin with.

For reference, my cable+internet bill adds up to more than that.

You're only thinking about it from your perspective. What if you had a commute that was 55 miles to work roundtrip everyday. So you had to fill up every two days. Thats 26 bucks versus 52. 2.5 times a week... thats 65 vs 130 a week. Take off 2 weeks of vacation a year. That's 50 weeks of that. 3,250 vs 6,500 dollars a year. Not including trips, not including errands. Not including driving the car quickly.

These are very real circumstances for people.

Why not just wait to pay it off and then buy another car likea toyota prius thats what i am gonna do.. or a motorcycle..

i got a killer deal on my 8 =]]

7.9 interest rate! 2K Down payment..

35K out the door fully loaded (except navigation) and the appearence package..

100K/6yr extended warranty.. but i pay 624 a month =[[[[

but im happy just as long as the interest rate is pretty decent..

I cant imagine losing money on my car.. they make it seem like your getting a deal but your not..
it slike covering up a wound with a bandaid..

Some people dont want to pay insurance for two cars.

You're only thinking about it from your perspective. What if you had a commute that was 55 miles to work roundtrip everyday. So you had to fill up every two days. Thats 26 bucks versus 52. 2.5 times a week... thats 65 vs 130 a week. Take off 2 weeks of vacation a year. That's 50 weeks of that. 3,250 vs 6,500 dollars a year. Not including trips, not including errands. Not including driving the car quickly.

These are very real circumstances for people.

Again, a 15mpg car was never a good idea to begin with. If I was looking for a commuter car, the 8 never would have been an option. And as a trend, gas has never gotten cheaper, so this should have been taken into consideration as well. I would never buy this car if I had to fill it up every other day. Especially not with all of the less expensive and much more practical alternatives.

It shouldn't have taken $4/gallon gas prices for anyone to come to this realization.

Some people dont want to pay insurance for two cars.

Sometimes insurance for two cars is cheaper.... sometimes.

Yea it may not be a killer killer deal but it sure is better than most.

after finacne charges the car came up to around 44K I o nly owe about 18-19K left.. SOO im happy a little more and shell be done getting paid for.

Sometimes insurance for two cars is cheaper.... sometimes.

I pay 464 bucks every 6 months totaling around 900 a year. :naughty:

Full coverage ALLSTATE BABY

What car would you guys get if your 8 was fully paid off?

I vote

TOYOTA PRIUS! Id like a black one pleaaase!:rolleyes:

Again, a 15mpg car was never a good idea to begin with. If I was looking for a commuter car, the 8 never would have been an option. And as a trend, gas has never gotten cheaper, so this should have been taken into consideration as well. I would never buy this car if I had to fill it up every other day. Especially not with all of the less expensive and much more practical alternatives.

It shouldn't have taken $4/gallon gas prices for anyone to come to this realization.

While once could conclude that gas prices would ascend, in 2003 or 2004, no one thought gas would be what it is now. I didn't. If you did, then seriously good for you.

He may have didnt want to own two cars so he could commute in a sports car and it be ok. Times have changed and it caused him to reevaluate.

It's really not that crazy... in this instance.

have fun with that....and did you realize the tc drinks almost as much gas as an 8?....my buddy just traded from a tc to an 8 as an upgrade.....have fun with fwd

Is this a joke? The tC doesn't even come CLOSE to the amount of fuel our cars burn. My friend drives one and fills up maybe every two weeks if he drives a lot. I'm lucky as hell to get a week out of our pathetic gas mileage.

This guy seemed rational. He wanted to give up his 8 after years of having issues with it and getting sick of the "piss poor" fuel efficiency especially in our declining economy. That's completely understandable.

But to go from an 8 to a Scion? Are you shitting me? :rollingla

That's what I call an EXCESSIVE overreaction. I hope he never plays the stock market.

its funny how everyone thinks they know everyone elses circumstances when it comes to trading in.

its funny how everyone thinks they know everyone elses circumstances when it comes to trading in.

Trading in a car is a guaranteed way to get screwed than if you sold it yourself. Dealers give you squat compared to what the car is worth.

Either way, getting into even more debt is the opposite of saving money.

its funny how everyone thinks they know everyone elses circumstances when it comes to trading in.

Can you mention a single occurence of someone getting a good deal when trading in?

Also a Prius is gonna save you money in the short run, but since they look like a boiled egg they are gonna fall in value in 3 years when nobody wants one and they all have to destroyed :lol:

I may be selling my 04 RX8(its an Auto) because of a lack of power. I am only getting about 15 MPG and i want something with a warranty and a car i can keep for awhile(i will be out of college in about 2-3 years).

Im not too worried about gas, i just hate the fact that the RX8 gets such little power for the amount of gas it uses(Im not a tuner). Yes i know it is not a straight line car and i knew the facts about an RX8 before i bought one. I like the RX8, but my 04's paint job looks faded and worn out, and it gets crappy mileage considering the fact that it is such a small engine with so little power(but again it is a rotary). My warranty was up and that was the big reason i wanted to get rid of the car

but than Mazda came out with the 8 year 100k warranty on the car, i may keep it, but most likely not.

While once could conclude that gas prices would ascend, in 2003 or 2004, no one thought gas would be what it is now. I didn't. If you did, then seriously good for you.

He may have didnt want to own two cars so he could commute in a sports car and it be ok. Times have changed and it caused him to reevaluate.

It's really not that crazy... in this instance.

If he truthfully did think that gas would go as high as it is now, he's more of an idiot for not profiting off of it ;)

...What car would you guys get if your 8 was fully paid off?...

My 8's fully paid off. Bought it for cash, so it's always been paid off. I'm keeping it forever.

Rising gas prices are an issue. Just like rising taxes, rising grocery prices, etc. I'm hoping that gas prices will push people onto public transportation, leaving more room on the highway for me and Zoomy.

Ken

just buy a bike if you're tight financially for your commute and you're set for life, keep the 8. please.

7.9% interest rate is not a killer deal at all.

(not to be a dick or anything)

I thought he was joking when I first read that... (i pay 1.9%) Maybe he has really bad credit

I started off with an 04 yellow 8 (tons of heads turned and much praise for it). Had it for about a year, 17k on it and engine had compression loss. I was in the middle of a move clear across the States, selling my house, and a ton of other things, needless to say a really bad time in my life. So when I got where I'm at today I traded it in on a lightning I saw at the used car lot while I was getting my F-150s oil changed. Then, me being a dumbass (listening to then girlfriend:banghead: ), I traded both trucks in on a tC. That car was nice for what it was but it was no RX8. I couldn't help but love and miss the 8, so I went and got rid of the tC for an 06 8. Plus I have a motorcycle that I can ride if I really want to be gas friendly, though if I get on the throttle too much it sucks it down too (sportbike :rock: ).

At the end of the day, I driven mustangs and 350z's and have rode in STi's, modded WRX's and RX8's at autocross events, and I still love the RX-8. Matter of fact this is the only car that reminded me of my old 944 that I had, and that was fun to drive too. In my opinion, you can't beat the way it looks and drives and now there is more support and aftermarket products, which makes me totally regret getting rid of my first one, completely (it would have been paid off!:anger: ). But hey, everyone makes mistakes ;) .

If he truthfully did think that gas would go as high as it is now, he's more of an idiot for not profiting off of it ;)

Yes, because assuming gas prices will gradually is the same as being able to predict the future in the stock market.

I thought he was joking when I first read that... (i pay 1.9%) Maybe he has really bad credit

I pay 11% with perfect credit.

It's usually to do with the term and amount.

I put 10k down and do monthly payments over 4 years.

If i put 0 down with 5 years i'd have a drastically lower percentage... probably pay more overall.

Yes, because assuming gas prices will gradually is the same as being able to predict the future in the stock market.

~$1.72 in March of 03 to ~$4.02 is not "gradual"

My point is that it is stupid to ridicule this guy because he didn't call the massive increase in gas over the past four years. Anyone who called this much of an increase (as you so arrogantly did) is lying.

~$1.72 in March of 03 to ~$4.02 is not "gradual"

My point is that it is stupid to ridicule this guy because he didn't call the massive increase in gas over the past four years. Anyone who called this much of an increase (as you so arrogantly did) is lying.

I haven't seen gas at $1.72 a gallon since the 90s.

Either way, buying a 15mpg car still wasn't a good idea for anyone that drives enough miles to be affected by a $2 increase in gas. And to repeat this again, getting into more debt is the opposite of saving money (ie losing money on trading in for a new car loan).

So now that he's "saving" money on gas, he's losing money paying on a new car loan. It's not a short term solution. At least with gas you're not paying interest.

I pay 11% with perfect credit.

It's usually to do with the term and amount.

I put 10k down and do monthly payments over 4 years.

If i put 0 down with 5 years i'd have a drastically lower percentage... probably pay more overall.

WOAH!! the most I've ever seen through dealer financing was like 6.9%! I suggest you try to pay that off as soon as possible...

With the financing rates I was offered, the shorter the term, the lower the rate (which makes sense since less risk cuz of the shorter period). 1-2 years: 0.9%, 3-4 years: 1.9%, 5-6 years: 2.9%

I haven't seen gas at $1.72 a gallon since the 90s.

Either way, buying a 15mpg car still wasn't a good idea for anyone that drives enough miles to be affected by a $2 increase in gas. And to repeat this again, getting into more debt is the opposite of saving money (ie losing money on trading in for a new car loan).

So now that he's "saving" money on gas, he's losing money paying on a new car loan. It's not a short term solution. At least with gas you're not paying interest.

"I haven't seen gas at $1.72 a gallon since the 90s."
http://money.cnn.com/2003/03/10/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm

I am not arguing what you just said, what I am arguing is your assertion that he was an idiot for not seeing this drastic increase in fuel prices. While I agree with the overall point many have made about debt, I don't believe that anyone thought these prices were possible within four years, which is what your original post claimed.

7.9% ???? 11.9%?????? wtf.....you guys got ripped off...........

It's 3.9% for 60 months with Boeing Credit Union here!!! yay!! I could have gone 72 months or 84 months....but I figured..the quicker I pay it off...the better I feel...:D

This mazda dealer by my house is offering 0 apr for 60 months for qualify buyer right now....... ..so even my 3.9% made me feel like a fool .........

7.9% ???? 11.9%?????? wtf.....you guys got ripped off...........

It's 3.9% for 60 months with Boeing Credit Union here!!! yay!! I could have gone 72 months or 84 months....but I figured..the quicker I pay it off...the better I feel...:D

This mazda dealer by my house is offering 0 apr for 60 months for qualify buyer right now....... ..so even my 3.9% made me feel like a fool .........

yea my coworker was able to get 0% for 5 years when he bought his mazda3. He was gonna do 4 years but couldn't pass up the extra interest free year.

We have to pay 14% sales tax, so what's an extra 11%?

I've seen your car around on 19 a bunch of times. It's always clean. I can tell it's yours because of your xenon-like lights next to your headlights. I cringe when getting gas, but just eat out a little less. I've even had thoughts of trading in the car for a something that gets around 25 mpg with some pep like the MS3, but nothing compares to the 8. It is pure sex on wheels.

Good luck with your purchase! Hopefully, you've made the right decision for yourself.

So what it sounds like you're saying is there are some type of high compression systems that I assume store compressed gas during deceleration for $5K to $7K that are not designed for the RX so you would be looking at probably another $1K to $3K for installation assuming the system even work and there is no mention of what the efficiency of these systems would be. Don't forget you would be voiding your warranty in the process. The rotary engine management is notoriously difficult to modify which would also need to be addressed. Also lets not forget losing your truck to store the high pressure tank.

So in summary $6K to $10K can buy you a jury rigged regenerative system with out any pre demonstration of efficiency/savings that will void your warranty and is questionable if it would even work. This is a good cost effective solution in your eyes?

Many hybrid conversions of conventional piston engines are in the 5-7k range, the majority of cost is on the high pressure tank and labour due to each conversion being "custom".

While you can get tanks that cost $10,000 - 20,000.. a decent size CF tank would cost $800-1,500. The rest would be spent on regulator/lines/piggy back ecu. While some would always pay someone else to do the work, most of us don't.

Although it would be interesting if mazda decided to offer kits or parts for sale that they have already produced.

all i read was "bye 8" and a "scion".

whats your problem dude?

j/k. or am i?

We have to pay 14% sales tax, so what's an extra 11%?

you pay 14% wow! I only pay 13% :-P

So what it sounds like you're saying is there are some type of high compression systems that I assume store compressed gas during deceleration for $5K to $7K that are not designed for the RX so you would be looking at probably another $1K to $3K for installation assuming the system even work and there is no mention of what the efficiency of these systems would be. Don't forget you would be voiding your warranty in the process. The rotary engine management is notoriously difficult to modify which would also need to be addressed. Also lets not forget losing your truck to store the high pressure tank.

So in summary $6K to $10K can buy you a jury rigged regenerative system with out any pre demonstration of efficiency/savings that will void your warranty and is questionable if it would even work. This is a good cost effective solution in your eyes?

You're thinking of fuel cell?

Think more along the lines of how propane works as a liquid in the tank, released as a gas.... you need a high pressure carbon fiber tank to hold the liquid hydrogen.

I assume you mean trunk? While it would take up a bit of space (depending on the size/pressure you got), but I don't use my trunk for much other then a jacket and few misc things. Plus the technology is improving with higher pressure tanks for less size.

Warranty is nothing to be concerned about unless A) drilling into the housing is necessary, or B) it's proven the modification caused the failure.

Mazda has "official" hybrids out and working now... so i guess it isnt a proven system? Improves your MPG about the same as any current "fuel efficient" vehicle out there now.

I'm sure that mazda would offer a conversion kit if demand was high enough. As they do already have production capabilities of such kit.

I haven't seen gas at $1.72 a gallon since the 90s.

Either way, buying a 15mpg car still wasn't a good idea for anyone that drives enough miles to be affected by a $2 increase in gas. And to repeat this again, getting into more debt is the opposite of saving money (ie losing money on trading in for a new car loan).

So now that he's "saving" money on gas, he's losing money paying on a new car loan. It's not a short term solution. At least with gas you're not paying interest.

You do realize that gas prices have basically doubled in a year and that this type of increase has no historic precedence. So to say people should have seen this coming and not bought the RX is a pretty lame argument.

Also I believe his break even point based on today's prices was about 3 years, if gas prices accelerate as predicted that could come down to 2 years. After that he is money ahead.

What he enjoys driving is his own business but the logic is there, assuming he sells the car for what it is worth.

You do realize that gas prices have basically doubled in a year and that this type of increase has no historic precedence. So to say people should have seen this coming and not bought the RX is a pretty lame argument.

Also I believe his break even point based on today's prices was about 3 years, if gas prices accelerate as predicted that could come down to 2 years. After that he is money ahead.

What he enjoys driving is his own business but the logic is there, assuming he sells the car for what it is worth.

1) I never said "I knew gas prices would double", I said they typical increase over time. That's what I wrote. Then came the 'OMG you didn't predict $4 gas, you're an arrogant prick' comments (I'm paraphrasing because it looks cooler that way). Don't get on me for that because you and Myriad are totally exaggerating what I wrote. Critisize me for whatever you want, but I know what I wrote because it's at the top of this page.

Either way, that had little to do with what I was trying to convey.....

2) The above point was to enforce the main point that buying a sports car that gets 15mpg isn't a good idea if you have a long commute. Regardless of whether gas is $2 a gallon or $5 a gallon. 15mpg is just horrible and made even worse if you have a long commute.

3) Getting to your break even point, how do you figure he breaks even in 3 years? No one knows, what gas will cost in three years, what he put down on the Scion, how much he owed on his RX-8, how much he paid for the Scion, how much he got screwed on trading in his 8, etc. Unless I missed that somewhere on here?

What I do know is that 3 years from know at your break even point, he's still going to paying on a Scion when he almost certainly would have the RX-8 paid off in full. So he would just be paying for gas and insurance instead of gas, insurance, and monthly car payment.


He can do whatever he wants. I'm just mentioning that trading in a depreciating asset for another more expensive asset to counter act the cost of gas is a fallacy. You lose money on the trade in as opposed to selling it yourself. You lose money on whatever you have for a down payment. You lose money from paying 4~6 more years of principal and interest payments. All because gas went up two dollars.

BTW, he bought the car in 2003, and he traded it in during 2008 at 5,8000 miles. That's only 12K miles a year. Even with gas prices in my area which are most likely the highest in the country, that's about a $2K annual increase in gas. Lets say the Scion gets double the mileage, that's a savings of $1K a year, except that now he has a new loan to pay of and a car that I'm sure isn't nearly as fun to drive.

WOW! What a discussion over s simple matter.

I just wanted something different than a sports car. Something that you don't see everywhere (Civic, Corolla, Mazda3, etc.) After having owned over 12 cars in the last 35 years, I understand the economics of buying, selling and trading in cars. I did not buy my 2004 RX-8, 2000Celica GT-S, 1999 Protégé, 1996 626, 1990 Protégé, 1985 IROC Z28, 1979 Formula Pontiac, 1969 GTO, 1967 Firebird, 1972 Corolla, 1970 GTO, 1967 Pontiac Catalina, 1967 Nissan (Datson) SPL1600 to make money, or complain about losing it. All I wanted to imply was that the RX-8 (and mine was in pristine, factory stock condition) has a terrible resale value. Part of it is the cost of fuel; part is the concern of rotary longevity, and Mazda's (undeserved) reputation of less than reliable cars.

I like to try other types of cars, and at this point in time I wanted something that was better on fuel than the RX-8 (although almost EVERYTHING is - lol). Something smaller than the RX-8 (for garage space issues), something that saved me on insurance, something that had some usable space inside and could carry 4 people.

Money is not, and has never been an issue for me when choosing a car. I simple buy within my means. In the case of the Scion, it was so well within my means, it was a no-brainer.

Is it as fun to drive as the RX-8, NO and YES. With the RX-8 if I went 3 mph over the speed limit, the cops took notice. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE will notice the Scion - and that's cool. The Pioneer Scion stereo blows away the Bose in the RX-8 (I know I can get aftermarket, but that's not my thing). You sit so high in the Scion, you can SEE what's going on up ahead (Even with my Scion lowered).
NO ONE has challenged me to a race - and THAT is definitely okay.

Someday as some of you get older, you might (I say MIGHT) just want to try something different in the car you choose as well. Until then - Enjoy your cars and I'll enjoy mine - Thank You!

^^^^Want to Race I have a slow gas guzzling bad stereo RX8:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why not a Mini? Sounds much more appealing than an xD.

have fun with that....and did you realize the tc drinks almost as much gas as an 8?....my buddy just traded from a tc to an 8 as an upgrade.....have fun with fwd

Our AWD Impreza gets slightly better mileage than the Tc and has 10 more horse.

interest?

pay the car in full with cash and then there's no interest.

:lol:

I am getting about 5 more miles to the gallon and therefore saving $50 per month in gas. I am paying about $200 more per for the car. I got a "free" ipod jack...ok it wasn't really free, it was $500. I am running over 2 seconds faster in the quarter mile. I can STILL accelerate through the turns and twisties are almost as much fun. I think I am ahead overall if I incorporate the C&D "gotta have it factor" of 10/10.

^^^^Want to Race I have a slow gas guzzling bad stereo RX8:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

YEAH! let's do a long-distance race - One tank and see who can go the farthest- LOL - I had an RX-8, I KNOW what it is, can and cannot do!

Why not a Mini? Sounds much more appealing than an xD.


I looked at the Mini, They have a great deal on service - free oil changes, but I could not get past the center Insturment panel and the black plastic trim around the wheel wells. But it was on the short list - as was the Mazda 3 (fuel mileage was not good enough).

1) I never said "I knew gas prices would double", I said they typical increase over time. That's what I wrote. Then came the 'OMG you didn't predict $4 gas, you're an arrogant prick' comments (I'm paraphrasing because it looks cooler that way). Don't get on me for that because you and Myriad are totally exaggerating what I wrote. Criticize me for whatever you want, but I know what I wrote because it's at the top of this page.

...and I never said you did, read what I wrote.


2) The above point was to enforce the main point that buying a sports car that gets 15mpg isn't a good idea if you have a long commute. Regardless of whether gas is $2 a gallon or $5 a gallon. 15mpg is just horrible and made even worse if you have a long commute.

If you have a long commute you would not be talking city mileage of 15mpg we would be talking 20 to 24mpg highway. So this argument is pretty pointless.

3) Getting to your break even point, how do you figure he breaks even in 3 years? No one knows, what gas will cost in three years, what he put down on the Scion, how much he owed on his RX-8, how much he paid for the Scion, how much he got screwed on trading in his 8, etc. Unless I missed that somewhere on here?

What I do know is that 3 years from know at your break even point, he's still going to paying on a Scion when he almost certainly would have the RX-8 paid off in full. So he would just be paying for gas and insurance instead of gas, insurance, and monthly car payment.

Well first off it was stated the break even was based on today's gas prices and would be shorter as prices rise. Also all you really have to know for general comparison is what the value difference is between the used RX-8 and the new car which can be readily obtained from several sources. Rather then restating everything I again suggest you read the whole post.


He can do whatever he wants. I'm just mentioning that trading in a depreciating asset for another more expensive asset to counter act the cost of gas is a fallacy. You lose money on the trade in as opposed to selling it yourself. You lose money on whatever you have for a down payment. You lose money from paying 4~6 more years of principal and interest payments. All because gas went up two dollars.

As you pointed out the he will take a hit from depreciation and repeat interest but what you neglected to mention is that as gas prices rise his depreciation will be less that the RX (speculation but, rational speculation) also you fail to take into account that his new car will be new asset with longer warranty and life span. It all becomes a math game at this point as to when his deficits from the switch are over come by the savings in gas.

BTW, he bought the car in 2003, and he traded it in during 2008 at 5,8000 miles. That's only 12K miles a year. Even with gas prices in my area which are most likely the highest in the country, that's about a $2K annual increase in gas. Lets say the Scion gets double the mileage, that's a savings of $1K a year, except that now he has a new loan to pay of and a car that I'm sure isn't nearly as fun to drive.

Your math does not work out my friend, based on the number you have thrown around. You have stated the following:

Mileage per year = 12,000
MPG = 15
$ per gallon(Chicago) = $4.20 (regular) $4.40 premium

Yearly cost calculated for gas $3,360 (regular) $3,520 (premium)

Assuming twice the mileage that is a savings of $1,680 - $1,760 per year.

Again his logic is not as skewed as you may think.

Get a Civic hybrid. The 2008 model has over 50 mpg. Get it!@

Now I see were you're coming from, your taking about the Hydrogen Hybrid fuel car that Mazda prototyped. OK, just take all the negatives I mentioned and add on safety concerns from high pressure explosive gas, no infurstucture for refilling, and no expertise for installation.

Lets also not forget that for the volume Hydrogen is a very poor fuel source for a internal combustion engine. The future of Hydrogen as a fuel source lies in fuel cells which have 2 to 3 times the efficiency with hydrogen.

This is a very poor solution at best and completely unworkable at worst.

You're thinking of fuel cell?

Think more along the lines of how propane works as a liquid in the tank, released as a gas.... you need a high pressure carbon fiber tank to hold the liquid hydrogen.

I assume you mean trunk? While it would take up a bit of space (depending on the size/pressure you got), but I don't use my trunk for much other then a jacket and few misc things. Plus the technology is improving with higher pressure tanks for less size.

Warranty is nothing to be concerned about unless A) drilling into the housing is necessary, or B) it's proven the modification caused the failure.

Mazda has "official" hybrids out and working now... so i guess it isnt a proven system? Improves your MPG about the same as any current "fuel efficient" vehicle out there now.

I'm sure that mazda would offer a conversion kit if demand was high enough. As they do already have production capabilities of such kit.

Get a Civic hybrid. The 2008 model has over 50 mpg. Get it!@
I have a friend with a Civic 2008 Civic Hybrid - he is getting 41 mpg in the same area I live/drive. I don't like the Civic's interior and besides you see Civis everywhere. MY first tank in the XD yielded 31.7 mpg - not too shabby for the first 287 miles.

I've lately found myself taking my wife's car or my diesel van out rather than the 8 . How f'n depressing . I got back in the 8 this week and have really been enjoying it - f**k the gas prices !

.............

Again his logic is not as skewed as you may think.

He came back and explained what he did. We can keep nit picking back and forth but it turns out he just wanted something different.

However, I hope other people read some of this and understand that buying a brand new car to offset $1,700 a year in gas may not be in your best interest.

From my observations and personal experience, I feel the reasons that so many MPG postings come up is for two main reasons.

1. Most people seem to experience a worse than expected fuel economy, that is, compared to what the car is rated at. In every other modern car I've owned, I have fared better than a car's official rating. But with the Rx8, I did about 10% to 15% worse than I would have expected. This was doubly bad from my viewpoint, because I actually didn't go to crazy with it.

2. As it's a sports car, you expect to use more fuel than a daily driver. However, unlike other sports car I'm familiar with, the Rx8 uses a disproportionate amount of fuel when you are simply cruising around town. Other sports cars dont do this. With most other sports cars you can control when you want power and that's when you start to pay for it, fair enough. But you are ALWAYS paying for it bigtime with the Rx8, there's no give in this department. The only exception is highway cruising when you'll hit optimal, but boring performance.

A new owner of an Rx8 WONT KNOW THESE QUALITIES. They have to experience them. So put your abuse in perspective. These are things learnt the hard way.

Now I see were you're coming from, your taking about the Hydrogen Hybrid fuel car that Mazda prototyped. OK, just take all the negatives I mentioned and add on safety concerns from high pressure explosive gas, no infurstucture for refilling, and no expertise for installation.

Lets also not forget that for the volume Hydrogen is a very poor fuel source for a internal combustion engine. The future of Hydrogen as a fuel source lies in fuel cells which have 2 to 3 times the efficiency with hydrogen.

This is a very poor solution at best and completely unworkable at worst.

fuel cells are very heavy, very expensive, and very fragile. (Vibration is a huge issue). Also considering the way they work, are not suitable for any cold or moderately cold climate. The efficiency and power is greatly reduced in cold weather that the majority of north america sees. Cost is very expensive as well. Fuel cells have an operating life somewhere in the 100,000 mile range before they must be replaced...

Hydrogen combustion is a much more cost effective method and remains more reliable. While yes infrastructure is an issue, I would say that the safety aspect is not. While it takes less air/fuel mixture to ignite hydrogen in open air, it will not "explode" if the tank happens to be ruptured.

Also compressed hydrogen can be run along with other liquid bio fuels as a catalyst in a regular engine. Such as very low grade gasoline in the regular tank and supplementing hydrogen to help combustion. Hydrogen burns much more efficiently then gasoline, although less "explosive"

While infrastructure remains an "issue", there are plenty of places to get hydrogen. (not as a typical "gas" station).

There might be some videos on youtube where a geo metro is using bio fuel and hydrogen to get 50mpg with very minimal modification to the fuel system other then a nob he turns to adjust the ignition based on the fuel he's using.

I think he has an open carb/intake with xx psi of hydrogen being dumped in as a catalyst to burn the bio fuel. (which he can run on regular gasoline, bio fuel/hydrogen or just straight hydrogen).

hydrogen combustion is far superior to hydrogen fuel cell in terms of cost, weight, reliability, versatility and conversion.

Honda right now has a commercial fuel cell running on the streets of California that is available for lease. Were are the hydrogen internal combustions running? That's right, there are none because it doesn't make sense to make them.

If you take a look at fuel cells over the last 10 years their cost has come down dramatically, life expectancy has increased almost 10 fold and reliability is why up and efficiency is getting better all the time. Oh and they have come down in size to the point of being practical. Most of the space in current generation systems is taken up by re-formulators to hydrogen.

You do realise that fuel cells are in their infancy, right. You also realise that hydrogen combustion is pretty much the best it will ever be, right.

You may not know this but one of the reasons Mazda made a Hydrogen power rotary is because they could. Value engines have problems with the hydrogen feeding into the cylindrers through the valves that makes them poorly suited to running on Hydrogen. It was basically an experiment at Mazda which proved good PR. Nothing more, sorry.

When you compare the energy content of compressed hydrogen to gas you need something like 3 times the volume to have comparable mileage. This is impractical for car use. Now if you had a power source that was 3 times as efficient, that's right FUEL CELL, things start to make sense.

Fuel cells are the future and a hydrogen conversion for combustion is just plain foolish, sorry to be so blunt but these are the facts.

fuel cells are very heavy, very expensive, and very fragile. (Vibration is a huge issue). Also considering the way they work, are not suitable for any cold or moderately cold climate. The efficiency and power is greatly reduced in cold weather that the majority of north america sees. Cost is very expensive as well. Fuel cells have an operating life somewhere in the 100,000 mile range before they must be replaced...

Hydrogen combustion is a much more cost effective method and remains more reliable. While yes infrastructure is an issue, I would say that the safety aspect is not. While it takes less air/fuel mixture to ignite hydrogen in open air, it will not "explode" if the tank happens to be ruptured.

Also compressed hydrogen can be run along with other liquid bio fuels as a catalyst in a regular engine. Such as very low grade gasoline in the regular tank and supplementing hydrogen to help combustion. Hydrogen burns much more efficiently then gasoline, although less "explosive"

While infrastructure remains an "issue", there are plenty of places to get hydrogen. (not as a typical "gas" station).

There might be some videos on youtube where a geo metro is using bio fuel and hydrogen to get 50mpg with very minimal modification to the fuel system other then a nob he turns to adjust the ignition based on the fuel he's using.

I think he has an open carb/intake with xx psi of hydrogen being dumped in as a catalyst to burn the bio fuel. (which he can run on regular gasoline, bio fuel/hydrogen or just straight hydrogen).

hydrogen combustion is far superior to hydrogen fuel cell in terms of cost, weight, reliability, versatility and conversion.

Fuel cells are the future and a hydrogen conversion for combustion is just plain foolish, sorry to be so blunt but these are the facts.

Because Raptor75 said so? :uhh:

Sorry to break it to you. But clean diesel is the way of the future for our economy. There's a reason why fuel cell cars aren't taking off in RoW where diesel is still cheaper to run. And this my friend.... is a fact. :lol2:

No, because common sense says so.:nono:

Your view of the future is rather short term and I would agree with you in the short term. The new versions of turbo clean diesels are the way to go. But you may have heard that oil is a limited resource, that means there is only so much of it. Once gone it's fuel cells all the way.

Estimates range from 40 to 100 years before the supply of oil runs out and as the current supply is consumed it will become more and more expensive with more customers world wide looking for it, that includes diesel fuel my friend. It will be a much shorter period then that before fuel cells become more economical then gas/diesel.

Battery power would need a break through to become a better option which could happen but based on the strides made by fuel cells opposed to batteries over the last 20 years, fuel cells is the likely choice.

So as I previously stated common sense points to the fuel cell as the future.

Because Raptor75 said so? :uhh:

Sorry to break it to you. But clean diesel is the way of the future for our economy. There's a reason why fuel cell cars aren't taking off in RoW where diesel is still cheaper to run. And this my friend.... is a fact. :lol2:

you're all wrong! the future is in tubes! we will all travel in tubes. according to jack black, the scientists are currently working on the tube technology.

Aways what to ride in a tube. :lol:

you're all wrong! the future is in tubes! we will all travel in tubes. according to jack black, the scientists are currently working on the tube technology.

meh, why trade it in and take a huge hit, and why fault the oil companies anyway? Are they to blame for the population increase in ginormous China and other countries like India etc? Is it their responsibility to hand out condoms and birth control pills and a slap on the wrist and tell people " shit, man, quit making babies already!!!!" Business is business, and as mentioned it's nearly impossible for them to not turn a profit so give it a rest already, maybe just blame bush for everything or something as that seems to be the popular thing these days. :rolleyes:

Seriously, a better option would be to keep the 8, and buy a cheap 2nd car or even a motorcycle just to drive every day. There's plenty of decent cars out there for less than a grand that get good mileage, would be cheap to insure,and would save your 8 from the daily beating it takes and the gas it eats. This is what I plan to do later this year if things keep escalating, I figure if it costs me 3-400 bucks a month to fill my car, it might be worth it to spend 700-1000 on a beater that costs me closer to 200-300 (if even that much) to fill up a month. Maybe my logic is flawed, but it seems that might be a better long term deal then taking a huge hit and being in debt over a car note an added 5 years on something that I don't even like as much as my 8 to begin with. (assuming the car I pay cash for is reasonably reliable, that would screw me up if it kept breaking every other weekend etc.)

The scions were never my cup-o-tea, but whatever suits you bro. I loved my 8 for what it was also, but eventually moved on as well. While i do miss it's handling and looks, I've yet to see reason to look back. Got out from under it before it's resale dropped too much, and found myself fitted with an MS6 which has suited my personal needs for a DD worlds better.

I also loved this forum. A lot of great people here to help you with any problems you might experience during ownership.

Speaking thereof, is Ike still trolling these parts nowadays? :smoker: