I went to a meet today in the suburbs of Chicago. MM and CRH were both there tuning cars for one day. I originally hadn't planned to have my car dynoed and tuned, but a spot opened up and I did it anyways.

After tuning it with a new accessport which I bought from MM in person:

159hp.
155hp.
152hp.

Manual 06 with 15k miles, bought used. Pull in 4th gear, engine warm, 85 degrees outside, with a fan blowing at the front of the car. Mustang dyno yes, but other N/As were running 175 average.

Needless to say this is very disappointing.

The horsepower curve on the graph heads straight up until about 6400, where it levels off. It climbs steeply again at 6600, peaks at 7300 or so, drops down at 7700, up again at 8000, down until 8500, and than down until redline.

Torque climbs straight up to 6k, drops down until 7200 because of a valve opening, rises to 7800, and than drops steeply off to redline ending at under 70lb-ft.

The AFR starts at 15 or so until 3500 at which point it stays stable between 13.8 and 14.6 to redline.

I'm getting my coils checked and having a comp test done friday.

What else could it be? Even with an AP I'm running 152, I'd hate to see what I was getting without it.

coils....plugs....maybe a clogging cat....

coils....plugs....maybe a clogging cat....

Cat at 15k miles?

you never know.....could be clogging and creating back pressure at high rpms.....but my first guess would be the coils....

Would coils account for upwards of 30 horsepower?

prob not...if the coils dont change anything go get a compression check

Would coils account for upwards of 30 horsepower?

YES,

For optimum performance replace plugs, wires and coils every 10K.

I had the same problem..i had major power loss..i took it to a dealer and they told me i needed a cat so they replaced it..styll major power loss so they are putting in a new engine under warranty:)

thats pretty shyttty.. needless to say but with that kinda of power loss it looks like a bit of compression loss.
but the wires and spark plugs should be checked out for sure~ it'll cause major hp loss*

good luck on what the problem is and update!

1-

Wait.........you had Ray and Jeff both there and you didn't get their input on this low dyno? :scratchhe
Start with plugs, coils, wires. Probably coils.....but if not, then it may be the cat.....or worse.

YES,

For optimum performance replace plugs, wires and coils every 10K.

really? Every 10k miles the whole ignition system should be replaced??

Wait.........you had Ray and Jeff both there and you didn't get their input on this low dyno? :scratchhe
Start with plugs, coils, wires. Probably coils.....but if not, then it may be the cat.....or worse.

I did, but right now I'm basically scrambling for a reason not to have to replace my engine.

really? Every 10k miles the whole ignition system should be replaced??

No. They're just reinforcing that certain aspects of it (plugs, coils) can begin to cause issues (reduction in power) in that short of a time.

I did, but right now I'm basically scrambling for a reason not to have to replace my engine.
You didn't stick around to get the compression check as was suggested. Yes, you could have a bad cat at 15K miles. I probably had 2 replaced by that time.
It may not be necessary to replace the plugs and coils every 10K miles, but it would be prudent to check them.

You didn't stick around to get the compression check as was suggested. Yes, you could have a bad cat at 15K miles. I probably had 2 replaced by that time.
It may not be necessary to replace the plugs and coils every 10K miles, but it would be prudent to check them.

I wish I could have. There was a crisis back home. How was the cruise?

I figure I can *carefully* check the coils myself. I'm hoping to god that they are bad, they would be a lot less trouble to replace than the cat and certainly the engine.

Here is a baseline from my car with 9600 miles on OE plugs and coils. Notice that it falls flat on its face after the third port opening. The second run is with with new coils, plugs, and wires. It pulls all the way to redline. I am now over 200 using the RB Street Flash. I have yet to see someone post a convincing chart from the AP on an NA car. :squint:

I have yet to see someone post a convincing chart from the AP. :squint:

So.... what do you think the AP lacks that the RB flash has?

I have yet to see someone post a convincing chart from the AP. :squint:

:icon_no2:

I wish I could have. There was a crisis back home. How was the cruise?

I figure I can *carefully* check the coils myself. I'm hoping to god that they are bad, they would be a lot less trouble to replace than the cat and certainly the engine.Cat will be replaced under the 8yr/80K mile Emissions warrenty.
Your car is an "06" with 15k miles. Everything should be taken care of under warranty.

Cat will be replaced under the 8yr/80K mile Emissions warrenty.
Your car is an "06" with 15k miles. Everything should be taken care of under warranty.

I'm not worried about expense, I'm worried about getting to work a week from tomorrow. I work 8 until 6:30 and if I don't have a car it means getting up at 6 or so to get there on time. Coils could be replaced on the spot, cat would take a while and engine would take a while while, plus the fighting I might have to do to get it.

Compression test, anyways your under warranty so bring it in! It doesn't cost you a dime

Your numbers might increase a bit if you remember to pay tdiddy for your dyno time.

Absolutely. I'll PM him now.

BTW, I forgot to put a ;) after my last statement. I hope your family emergency all worked out well also.

I wish it were so, but it might be a while before everything is straight.

YES,

For optimum performance replace plugs, wires and coils every 10K.

how about find the bad component and fix it..

did 75k miles on my first set of coils.. the second new and improved not so much..

plugs are kinda predictable.. 25k if you beat the crap out of them. :)

but has the op ever flooded.. that would answer the cat question???

beers :beer:

how about find the bad component and fix it..

did 75k miles on my first set of coils.. the second new and improved not so much..

plugs are kinda predictable.. 25k if you beat the crap out of them. :)

but has the op ever flooded.. that would answer the cat question???

beers :beer:

I personally have never flooded but I bought the car used, and I have no idea if the last owner flooded it.

There was nothing on the service report about flooding, but people seem to de-flood their own engines often these days.

I personally have never flooded but I bought the car used, and I have no idea if the last owner flooded it.

There was nothing on the service report about flooding, but people seem to de-flood their own engines often these days.

all it takes is one flood to kill the cat..

beers :beer:

I went to the dealer today.

What a shitty dealership. I get in and they've lost my appointment, so I pull it up to the service front desk. The guy there asks me "is there anything wrong with the car?" I tell him to check coils, cat, plugs, wires, and compression, just like I had stated when I made the appointment.

He ended up checking nothing.

He told me I needed to come back friday to get the coils/plugs checked, and that he's charging me 400 dollars for it.

No. That's horseshit.

I didn't argue at the time, I just took the sheet. He couldn't stop telling me "I doubts its the coils. I doubt its the plugs. If you just listen to it in the back...the plugs are fine."

Not to mention he wouldn't let me back into the tech area to see what they were doing.

They gave me MSP-16 which in terms of feeling power did absolutely nothing. I didn't really see what it was going to do that the AP hadn't already done.

They told me to bring it back next Friday.

Compression test is included in the 400 dollars.

I will update this thread next Friday.

Might be somewhat late to the party as I've been away a few days, but they will, or should..................give you a loaner car.

So.... what do you think the AP lacks that the RB flash has?

That's eay!

A Dyno chart!

I knew that MSP-16 wouldn't do anything before I got it, because if the Accesport messed with the same settings and its proven, refined map can't save the power, not much else out there will.

I have just dropped the car off with another dealer, who was visibly distressed by my numbers.

He says there has to be something wrong with it. He's checking compression first and if that's fine, all the other usual stuff.

Will update as I'm updated.

I just got a call from the dealership.

Amazingly, the compression on this motor is 8.9 average on both rotors.

The dyno doesn't show the typical bad coils signs, so that leaves me with plugs and cat. I told him check the plugs first and cat if all else fails. Once I get it back I'm going to take it to the dyno and see if it has improved.

I'm going to test it once without the AP and than three times with the AP, and I will post all graphs.

I have the compression sheet and will scan it tomorrow.

I will be heading back to the exact same dyno hopefully this weekend, to get a re-test. It definitely feels smoother and the tach no longer does stop-and-go above 7kRPM.

I don't know if I gained 30hp, but it DOES rev more smoothly.

I will be posting before/after AP dynoes as well for anyone who is interested.

What changes were made? I realize you had a compression test done but what else did the dealer do? Did they change the coils, plugs, wires, or cat?

What did you get done at the second dealership?

This is the compression test I had done first at the dealership. I figured if the compression was low that it ruled out some of the other problems. I don't really know how to read what it means, so I'm posting it here, attached in PDF.

After that, the coils were checked, they were good. The plugs were "slightly fouled". The cat is "good".

I know that 9.0...something is great compression, and 7.0....something is bad compression. I do not know if this sheet reads in the same units of measurement.

So what did they replace or change that fixed the problem? . . . or helped out?

So what did they replace or change that fixed the problem? . . . or helped out?

Whats up Phish?

Did you get those coils working properly?

Coils are at Mazsport going on the dyno today. . .

So what did they replace or change that fixed the problem? . . . or helped out?

I don't know if anything is fixed. At this point I don't think that I feel 30hp faster.

Uh, little problem there with your "compression test".
890 kPa isn't 120 PSI. It also isn't 125 PSI.
It also isn't 8.9 kg/cm^2.

This is a bogus test. The numbers were inputted manually by someone.

^^ yep.

Math is wrong, something is wrong

For exmaple. 125 psi is about 861 kPa. not 890

Ask them.

For example, here are the numbers from my "old" motor at 215 RPM:

FRONT:

768 kpa - 111 PSI - 7.8 kg/cm3
779 kpa - 113 PSI - 7.9 kg/cm3
848 kpa - 123 PSI - 8.6 kg/cm3

REAR:

825 kpa - 119 PSI - 8.4 kg/cm3
825 kpa - 119 PSI - 8.4 kg/cm3
779 kpa - 113 PSI - 7.9 kg/cm3

post mine, post mine!

I'm on hold with them now.

EDIT: He told me "He'd look into it" and that "he doesnt have conversions in his head", that he "really didnt have time right now" and that "I should call back later or maybe tomorrow and he might have answers." He also said "the numbers come right out of the mazda computer and that its smarter than all of us put together" and that "he doesn't know how to change what comes out of the computer."

This isn't looking too good right now.

AFAIK:
If they have the digital compression tester Mazda makes the licensed dealerships use, it should be a screenshot of the application view. It also sends it directly to mazda upon completion.

That screenshot is not that program.

"the numbers come right out of the mazda computer and that its smarter than all of us put together"

Considering that it is an absolutely base-model laptop, that is saying loads about the intelligence level of the dealer service writer.

all in all mazda maniac you rule with the girls and as far as the dealer he's using i think there full of it.my personal 2cents

Considering that it is an absolutely base-model laptop, that is saying loads about the intelligence level of the dealer service writer.

You have a PM.

I just talked to the dealer again.

What he told me was "the middle [numbers] are all we look at. If the other ones are incorrect it might be because we don't...look at those. We get one reading from the compression tester which is in kgf/cm2 and than we just input those into the computer and it generates the other values. The other numbers...we don't look at those."

I didn't know what to say about that so I told him I would call back. What do I do? They are obviously bullshitting me but I have no way to call them on it!

I spoke to the dealer again a few minutes ago.

Here is the conversation:

ME: Hi, this is [name], I brought in an RX-8 for a compression test about two weeks ago?
DEALER: Sure whats up?
ME: So to clarify, you just get one number from the test insturment, the kgf/cm2, put that into the computer, and it generates the rest of the numbers?
DEALER: Yes, that is correct.
ME: Well than what I find interesting is that the computer is generating different values for PSI from the same kgf/cm2 value.
DEALER: But we dont...LOOK at those. It doesn't matter, the computer generates that. Whatever math the computer uses...it could be COMPLETELY wrong, but it doesn't matter because we don't look at those numbers, we probably should have just cut those out of your results sheet.
ME: Well I'm just saying, inaccurate numbers from your computer leads me to question the validity of the test as a whole.
DEALER: Why is that?
ME: Because how do I know that the kgf/cm2 readings are correct if the other numbers are inaccurate?
DEALER:....because those are the ones we get from the...tester.
ME: I'm going to have to call back again.
DEALER: Sure.