I recently saw the Car and Driver article which saids that the Rx-8 weighs 3000 to 3050 pounds and 0 - 60 in 6.3 sec and 1/4 mile in 14.9

Now to me dats really bad because I was expecting the weight to be in the 2800s, 0 to 60 in 5.9, and 1/4 mile about 14.4.

How is it gonna keep up with its competition? Even the new Neon SRTs do 0 to 60 under 6 and 1/4 mile in 14.3!!!!

AND THEY ONLY COST ABOUT 20K!!

I also read in the very same article ...... "that relatively cool exhaust gas from turbocharged rotary motors prevents efficient catalytic conversion, making it unlikely we'll see one soon, if ever"

What will dat make for the future hope of ever having a turbo kit for the Rx-8???

These results are disappointing

I'll say it nicely but if that's what you're looking for in the RX-8, all power and straight line times...

You are looking at the wrong car.

If that is not the case however, I urge you to use the search button where the C&D time has been disproved a few times over. Keep in mind these are estimates and some magazines have different ones than others.

ya, basically, the cars C&D and every other mag was dickin' around with aren't final production models, and none of the testing they got to do was timed or anything... it was a track-day for first impressions: don't take these numbers as set in stone. they do not know the final weight: it COULD be substancially less than that (2900 lb). also, even if the 0-60 is in 6.1s, that's still bloody fast... if you say "oh, i wanna kill people at the lights!!", then i'll say you're a dummy, and then reply with "then out drive them, silly... there's no way, in a real-world situation where either car, in stock form, at a street light will come close to the magazine 0-60 numbers. if you do, you won't be able to do it too many times in a row before making a small mistake and breaking something, or wearing something (like the clutch) out."

second thing, the Neon SRT is ONLY about straight line performance, a low price tag, and nothing else. for a rolling motor, there's nothing better. also, the cars the mags were sent were higher-than-production-spec tuned "ringers" (as proven by SCC's dyno numbers that were WAAAAY above factory HP ratings, at the wheel), so those test numbers... well... might be a bit low. the other thing to think about is the reliability of such a car, where the Neon isn't exactly a scintillating example of mechanical fortitude in the first place, eh??

In a movie (I forget the name) Kevin Spacey played a news reporter. A mentor asked him to look at the dark clouds in the distance and tell him "the story".

The mentor suggested something like "Killer storm coming to demolish town!"

The Kevin Spacey character asked "What happens when the storm doesn't demolish the town?

The mentor suggested a new story "Small town saved from killer storm in miracle!!!"

Wait until both cars come out, then compare track times, there the price difference will be more than justified.

If you're looking for a straight-line car, then you probably don't want a Mazda.

Originally posted by xkpbreaker
I recently saw the Car and Driver article which saids that the Rx-8 weighs 3000 to 3050 pounds and 0 - 60 in 6.3 sec and 1/4 mile in 14.9

Now to me dats really bad because I was expecting the weight to be in the 2800s, 0 to 60 in 5.9, and 1/4 mile about 14.4.

How is it gonna keep up with its competition? Even the new Neon SRTs do 0 to 60 under 6 and 1/4 mile in 14.3!!!!

AND THEY ONLY COST ABOUT 20K!!

I also read in the very same article ...... "that relatively cool exhaust gas from turbocharged rotary motors prevents efficient catalytic conversion, making it unlikely we'll see one soon, if ever"

What will dat make for the future hope of ever having a turbo kit for the Rx-8???

These results are disappointing

youll have to wait for the rx-7, dude

the next 7 oughta be a helluva lot faster than ~6s 0-60, and weight less than 2800... well, certainly not MORE...

The acceleration times listed in the C/D article were estimates.

If you want to go fast in a straight line for cheap, just strap a rocket to a roller skate. :)

Originally posted by BryanH
The acceleration times listed in the C/D article were estimates.

If you want to go fast in a straight line for cheap, just strap a rocket to a roller skate. :) Or go down a steep hill on a skateboard, even cheaper :P

If you want to go fast in a straight line for cheap, just strap a rocket to a roller skate How fast you want to run the 1/4 depends on how much you want to spend. Push it out the back of a C-130 and aim it straight down if you really want to achieve maximum velocity. :D

Shut the hell up,
I really love this stuff, "If you want to go fast in a straight line this car isn't for you."

What the hell kind of responses are these. I believe if you have a problem with what someone says state it once. Then, this is the tough one, SHUT UP.

The RX-8 to you maybe something completely different for someone else. If he wants this car for straight line performance, so be it, he can do supporting mods to get him there. Who are you to tell him what this car to him should be, not that you are but to completely belittle his topic is an act of ignorance. The RX-8 I am sure with enough money can be made to run fast in the quarter. Hell talk about a great car, having one that can not only out handle most other cars but also have the acceleration to keep up with them in the straights, thats gotta be good.

I believe he has brought up a valid point, of where is the straight line performance. Even though these are estimates, I am hoping they are far off from the actual figures. The RX-8 is not a replacement for the RX-7 but all of the RX series have all been relatively quick cars. Look at the 3rd gen. The RX-8 should be about handling, as most Mazda's are but straight line performance is also should be there. There have been more than just a few cars lately that have raised the stakes when it comes to straight line speed and in order for Mazda to do well, the RX-8 has to atleast keep up.

Thank you Fritts!

Someone that finally understands what I was trying to say......

AND ....YES I know Mazda is known for superior handling like the Rx-8 is gonna have and I love great handling cars but since the Rx-8 is already guarenteed to have superior handling if it also had the straightline performance that I'm looking for.....it would be UNSTOPPABLE!!! just think about it.... it would literally kill any car in its competition....

I wasn't looking for high numbers either.... I just wanted something that would keep up with the 350z or the new Evo thats about to come out very soon... around 14.4 in the quarter mile and I dont think im asking much.....

It was just when i saw that C&D article it just blew me away cuz I had such I hopes for the car....(whether it was estimates or not)

Performance is the first thing I look for in a car and I want both Power and Handling....

Im still going to buy an Rx-8 regardless

Who is saying anything about straight line performance being bad?

There is a thing Mazda needs to do, called BALANCE. Good amount of power to push it off from launch and from corners.

I for one am pretty fed up with the trolls that have come here time, and time again saying how the RX-8 is going to be "embarassed" because of the 0-60 being around 6 seconds instead of the 350Z's 5.4 or another comparison.

The 6 seconds to 60 is not too shabby by all accounts and most people that want to start the wars about how it is too slow and yada yada yada don't know how to drive on a track anyway. People that are ALL ABOUT the speed are morons, and there are cheaper faster cars out there than the RX-8 for their needs. I simply re-emphasise this because I hate the trolls.

And you fritts, have really got no manners. I simply stated that if you are looking for a car that is concentrating on a low straightline quarter or 0-60 time, then this is the wrong car to look at. If you want a balance of everything, power, handling, looks, quality then yes, the RX-8 might be for you.

But too many times have I heard that this car is "too slow" and I'm at the point now that it genuinely irks me. As you stated yourself, the RX-8 merely has to keep up with the newer cars -- you're right. But I think the keeping up with come on a track, not in a straight line. It's all about -- and I'll say it again -- BALANCE.

So to you fritts; why don't YOU shut the hell up? I was courteous, polite, and merely pointed out that if the search button were used that the 6.3 estimate was inaccurate because using hand timing many drivers were clocking in under 6 seconds. Once they equip the car with proper testing equipment I expect that the dash to 60 will be a few tenths under 6 seconds. I try my best not to get arguementative but when you tell me to shut up for being polite and attempting to help that person find the information he's looking for, I merely see that you are no better than the trolls that come here looking to start an arguement.

I'll leave it at that.

Originally posted by fritts
Shut the hell up,
I really love this stuff, "If you want to go fast in a straight line this car isn't for you."

What the hell kind of responses are these. I believe if you have a problem with what someone says state it once. Then, this is the tough one, SHUT UP.

Well, that's really not it. According to the original post, the ONLY metric of a cars worth is it's 1/4 mile time, and therefore the RX-8 must not be very good since you might be able to buy a cheaper car with a better 1/4 mile time. It came across as a troll post, even if that's not how the guy meant it.

Nobody said that they didn't want the RX-8 to be as fast as possible in a straight line, and nobody said they had a problem with another person modding the RX-8 for drag racing. So I really don't see who the "SHUT UP" was directed towards, maybe the voices in your head?

Originally posted by m477

Well, that's really not it. According to the original post, the ONLY metric of a cars worth is it's 1/4 mile time, and therefore the RX-8 must not be very good since you might be able to buy a cheaper car with a better 1/4 mile time. It came across as a troll post, even if that's not how the guy meant it.

Nobody said that they didn't want the RX-8 to be as fast as possible in a straight line, and nobody said they had a problem with another person modding the RX-8 for drag racing. So I really don't see who the "SHUT UP" was directed towards, maybe the voices in your head? Thank you for that :)

I just think its funny how I with no manners is the only person to stick up for this guy. I seriously doubt he is a troll, even if he is he does have a valid point. Get used to it more and more people will ask about these topics you consider irrelevant, so pull them panties from you ASS. And I am sorry it makes no sense to search on such a topic as new information is available every day. No information can be truely correct on the 8 as we have yet to get a production version tested so I would consider these posts to be valid.

And no you are not courteous and polite, you are the only person on this forum that treats it as if you are GOD and your opinion is the only one that counts. Please just be open minded and stop going off on everyone you consider trolls, I mean seriously if you don't like a post then ignore it. Especially since no information can totally be correct and an FAQ is really of no use untill acccurate information can be added to one. Then I don't really care if you let the dogs loose. Sorry if I was a little pissed in the last post but damn guys...

Originally posted by fritts
I just think its funny how I with no manners is the only person to stick up for this guy. I seriously doubt he is a troll, even if he is he does have a valid point. Get used to it more and more people will ask about these topics you consider irrelevant, so pull them panties from you ASS. And I am sorry it makes no sense to search on such a topic as new information is available every day. No information can be truely correct on the 8 as we have yet to get a production version tested so I would consider these posts to be valid.

And no you are not courteous and polite, you are the only person on this forum that treats it as if you are GOD and your opinion is the only one that counts. Please just be open minded and stop going off on everyone you consider trolls, I mean seriously if you don't like a post then ignore it. Especially since no information can totally be correct and an FAQ is really of no use untill acccurate information can be added to one. Then I don't really care if you let the dogs loose. Sorry if I was a little pissed in the last post but damn guys...

agreed!

hercules - 1000 of your posts all have to do with the sentence: "the rx8 is not for you!"

if you're bothered by these 'trolls', than leave them alone - don't bother posting, its obvious you get extremely furious over these people - so why not ignore??

oh and you being polite and courteous - I think not! - you've been reminded over and over and over to calm your posts down.
I think you need a break from this forum - I know I needed a break from your same ol' posts!

I think the big difference is gonna be determined on how responsive the car will be to modification.

For instance the Z at 280hp is pretty "tweaked" I dont imagine that you could squeeze that much more power out of it without adding forced induction.

The renesis on the other hand is an unknom. It may see substantical gains by exhaust/intake/chip.

I want to get an RX8 and mod it to achieve the few tenths off of qtr mile. But for a daily driver its plenty fast for me.

Originally posted by Immi


agreed!

hercules - 1000 of your posts all have to do with the sentence: "the rx8 is not for you!"

if you're bothered by these 'trolls', than leave them alone - don't bother posting, its obvious you get extremely furious over these people - so why not ignore??

oh and you being polite and courteous - I think not! - you've been reminded over and over and over to calm your posts down.
I think you need a break from this forum - I know I needed a break from your same ol' posts! Just like the 190 some of your posts are all telling me to shut up eh?

*yawn*

Ooh, the forum's first flame war... yay.

Heh, 10 years ago how many affordable cars could do <14.5 in the quarter mile *and* handle extremely well? I can't really think of any... Funny how we've raised our standards so much in the past few years. Some people say X car is not a sports car if it can't do 0-60 in less than Y seconds. Whatever. :) My sports car does it in 8.2 seconds, you got a problem with that? ;)

Easy way to get a 14.4 with the RX-8: take out the passenger seats, spare tire (if there is one), tools, and abuse your clutch/tranny. There ya go. I think the 8 will do mid-14s with a good driver anyway, without removing all that stuff.

Technology (engineering mostly, not fancy electronic doohickeys) has given us cars recently that perform extremely well on a track, without feeling terribly fast. They can be deceptive. My MR2, even when I complete the Supercharged engine swap and suspension upgrades, will be wasted on a track by a stock RX-8 (given equal drivers). My MR2 feels faster than it is, the RX-8 will likely be the other way around. I mean shoot, if I get an RX-8 it will be my comfy, luxurious daily driver and useful vehicle, with the occasional fun track day or autocross. The MR2 will remain my fun/race car. And yet the RX-8 is faster/better in probably every respect except one - agility.

So I say a couple tenths of a second here or there are just numbers. I'm sure a well driven RX-8 can waste a poorly-driven 350Z or Evo8 at a drag race.

If ya want the RX-8 to be faster, make it faster. :)

Give me 300 HP to keep up with the Vipers/Vettes I'm going to take on in AutoX and I'm happy even giggly:D

Originally posted by Spining Ncnratr
Give me 300 HP to keep up with the Vipers/Vettes I'm going to take on in AutoX and I'm happy even giggly:D 300 horses in a lightweight car with 4 seats and 4 doors....

*drool*

Herc have you ever hear of a Revs Calloway Mallet 435 thats a C5 vette with Turbo 435 HP a roll cage and comp pieces and suspension and this guy does not have one but two
one coupe one Convert. Talk about a delima the coupe alone cost in mods around $30 grand pluse the $43 grand US for the car
And this guy has 2. Boy to have that kind of disposable income then his Brother has a 97 GTS Viper and I was going toe to toe with a 99 Olds Alero with STB, Intrax springs, and Monroe Sensetrac Struts But sorry to say I lost bad
The Mallet ran a flat 54 Sec
The Viper 55.3
Me best 61.2

But I really hate seeing Miata taillights
A stock 93 ran a 61 sec flat
I go by the old saying: If you can't beat'em join'em
But with my twist If I can't beat'em join'em with something better.:D

I LOVE TURBOS!

Originally posted by Spining Ncnratr
Give me 300 HP to keep up with the Vipers/Vettes I'm going to take on in AutoX and I'm happy even giggly:D
On a proper course you could do that with a Miata or a Honda Prelude. :D Here is Marshall McLean in a Prelude with a hurting engine, making about 140whp but also with coilovers, R-compound tires and a great driver. :D
http://www.soloontario.com/solo2/2002/overall.htm

I have at least one Viper, one Ferrari, and several Corvettes on my autocross "kill list" with all of 90hp at the wheels in my car. :)

Ph3ar my 80ft-lbs of torque. :p

People buy Rx-8 for its style, handling, and Speed(believe it or nOT!)
So why can't someone focus on speed??
One can say 6.3sec is fast, someone else might think 6.0sec is fast, and another guy might think flat 7 is Fast, everyone should have their own opinion, nobody should tell someone else "Rx-8 isn't the car for you " if it doesn't make eg 5.9secs.
Not a lot of us will make the top stated mag time actually, but bragging rights are also important, nobody wants their nice car to be laughed at, even if you don't care much , everyone is still hurt, even a little bit, when they're laughed at.

Also, stop saying someone is a troll or make statements that are troll-like. If they really are a troll pity them, they have nothing better to do than bashing Rx8?
If they're not and you INSIST they are, well you SHOULDknow how they'll feel.

It is sad to see a member saying things to hurt another member.

Well I have been reading this forum and I would like to defend Hercules. He was just trying to explain politely that this car does not deliver the best straight-line performance per dollar. And if that is your main priority in a car, this car is not for you. Then somebody tells him: “Shut the hell up”. I understand that Hercules becomes angry and defends himself. Please guys tone it down a little, this has been an excellent forum and keep it that way. Regards.

Originally posted by sheylen
This car does not deliver the best straight-line performance per dollar, and if that is your main priority in a car, this car is not for you.

yes, precisely. it's just a bit of friendly, and true, advice.
of course everyone wants the best of everything, and there isn't anything wrong with wanting it, but the reality is that this car isn't going to be a "door-blower-offer" ;)

animosities aside, the gripes of fritts and DonG35Miata and company are valid ones, saying that because it's and RX it should be fast. well, i'll tell ya: until the FD, the RX-7 had ALWAYS been MUCH slower than the Z car (240, 260, 280) in a straight line, with a far better grip on the road. this is the way it's been, and now the RX-8 is giving up two back seats to it. performance, in terms of whatever qualities and quanities you define as "benchmarks", is always a tradeoff. faster is more expensive, and more luxurious and utile is slower; sorry friends, you can't really have it all.
would it be nice?? sure. the MPS'll be mega quick (assuming of course they make one as fast as has been speculated), and that will satisfy Don's, fritts', and co.'s need for speed, and Immi's lust for exclusivity... just a trade off.

so, to get back to why this car mayn't be for you is because it's a comprimise between all performance factors, and that comprimise mayn't be what you want. that's fine, but unless you want to go to work on the car, it is what it is.

Well, with a lil extra money... I'll make the Rx-8 one of the fastest things out there!!:D

Well, all I gotta say is anyone buys this car for the whole purpose of straight line performance is a MORON. This individual obviously didn't do any research to spend his hard earned dollar.:p

I hope ur not refering to me cuz I thought we already went over this....

I think the performance will be closer to what you expected in your original post (0-60 times in the high 5s, quarters in low 14s or less). I had a chance to speak with Barry Winfield, the person who wrote the RX-8 driving impression article in C&D, since he's a bike nut as well. He told me that any numbers that were listed were just rough estimates, so there's no way we'll know for sure until the car hits the showroom floors. But he did say the car was blast to drive (he was at the original RX-7 intro in '92 at Willow Springs racetrack, so he has a good point of reference), with a very well-balanced handling feel that reminded him of the FD. Yeah, it may be not quite up to the straightline spec of other semi-competitors like the 350Z, but actually Mazda is looking for the 8 to create another genre of sports GT car. Not quite the two-seater sports car, but not quite the luxo-4-seater sport GT car either.

For those interested in serious performance, he said that Mazda is indeed working on the next gen 7. Mazda reps were going through great pains not to compare the new 8 to the FD (as well as say the 8 is NOT a new replacement for the 7), and quickly sidestepped questions on whether a sportier car would be appearing in the near future using the Renesis motor. Read into that what you will, but it's safe to say that Mazda won't want to come out with something that plays second fiddle to Nissan or Toyota. Obviously, the sales of the new RX-8 will determine whether Mazda will be able to go ahead with production of the new gen 7.

Oh yes, the turbocharging question. From what I gather, the new Renesis' exhaust gas temps are much lower than the FD's, which would hurt its ability to heat a cat con properly to pass emissions. In relocating the ports, Mazda engineers aided fuel economy and emissions, but got rid of the one advantage the original rotary had for turbocharging over conventional motors-- a surplus of exhaust energy to help spool up the turbos and heat up a cat con quickly. Some have spoke of larger rotors rather than another rotor as a method of hp increase. We'll see. Don't count anything out.

Welcome to the board Kento!

Originally posted by Kento
From what I gather, the new Renesis' exhaust gas temps are much lower than the FD's, which would hurt its ability to heat a cat con properly to pass emissions. In relocating the ports, Mazda engineers aided fuel economy and emissions, but got rid of the one advantage the original rotary had for turbocharging over conventional motors-- a surplus of exhaust energy to help spool up the turbos and heat up a cat con quickly

hey Kento, welcome to the board.
i think i read that same statement about the "lower" exhaust tempuratures in the C&D preview, right?? well, Boogs, Grim, Max, Sput, T-Man, Dazz (if you're still around) or anyone who can help me with this, i'm pretty sure that the rotary actually has terribly high exhaust temps in comparison to piston engines... right?? of that i'm not quite sure.

one thing i AM sure of though is that Mazda's improved the path of expiration (with the double skinned exhaust header) to maintain gas tempurature from the combustion chamber, not to mention Boog's recent find of Mazda's "ground breaking" technological advancements in 3-way cat technology... can't remember exactly what it was, but it had substantial "eureka" factor to it... also, with the delayed expiration port timing, and the "fencing" effect the side ports have on keeping unburnt HC's in the engine to go another round, this engine is far FAAAAR better on emissions than the 13B could ever be.

about those side ports, too: at high rpm, i could see a slight disadvantage to the perhipheral ports as far as high velocity breathing (for powering a turbocharger), but with nearly 100% larger exhaust ports, it seems to me that Mazda could easily tune these ports to produce some killer low-rpm exhaust velocity for turbine spool-up. this less direct gas flow no doubt obscures flow, but i wouldn't say that turbocharging this engine would be any less effective than turbocharging a piston engine (where often gasses have to make very sharp turns to get out of the heads).

Here is my thought about turbocharging the Renesis. Most people that turbocharge the engine are not going to be running the cat. If they are that into getting performance out of the engine why in the world would they worry about the cat as it just hinders performance anyway.

I know some people might worry about smog and all that crap they have to pass. But from what I have seen most turbo kits are made for off road use only anyway, because they can't pass emissions.

I mean seriously how many 3rd gens can pass emissions tests with any type of upgrade.

Maybe, this is the reason why we won't see a factory turbocharged renesis as Mazda has stated, or it could be just another reason for Mazda to use a supercharger to pass emissions.

Originally posted by fritts
I mean seriously how many 3rd gens can pass emissions tests with any type of upgrade.They can pass just fine, you just need to run a hi-flo main cat (and make sure your plugs are good, and the car is warmed up, etc.).

I bet they can't pass a visual inspection with the most common mod of removing the pre-cats.

Originally posted by wakeech
well, Boogs, Grim, Max, Sput, T-Man, Dazz (if you're still around) or anyone who can help me with this, i'm pretty sure that the rotary actually has terribly high exhaust temps in comparison to piston engines... right?? of that i'm not quite sure.

Hi Bill, :D

Previous rotaries had much hotter exhaust than piston engines. It is possible that the renesis exhaust will be quite a bit cooler during idle because of it's lean(er) burn capability and it's longer expansion stroke. Despite that, Mazda designed the new rx-8 catalyst to exhibit "superior resistance to high-temperature exhaust gases" which leads me to think that the rx-8 will still put out pretty high temp exhaust during full load revs.

A side intake engine that Mazda tested for a SAE article in 1996 had dual side exhaust ports that open 25 degrees later and close 71 degrees earlier than the single peripheral. The characteristics of the side exhaust ports mean that the temperature of the exhaust will be lower even without lean burn. Lower temperature exhaust means less velocity but since the new exhaust ports have more area open for a much shorter period of time, that would mean increased velocity of the exhaust pulses.

Mazda engineers previously defined the exhaust force that spins a turbocharger as consisting of two steps:
1. The "impact" force is when the exhaust gas strikes the blades
2. The "reaction" force as the exhaust gas continues through the blades and increases turbine speeds

The renesis is likely to have less impact force but higher reaction force (albeit for a shorter period).

I'm sure Mazda could design a twin-scroll turbo (not twin turbo) to take advantage of the renesis' unique properties. Perhaps KKMmaniac can post a diagram of the Mazda's previous twin-scroll turbo from the book "RX-7 - The New Mazda RX-7 and Mazda Rotary Engine Sports Cars"? :)

It sounds like Mazda is trying to go the NA route with 10mm wider rotors instead of turbos though. It will be the logical progression for Mazda to increase the rotary displacement:

10a = 982cc
(982 / 60) * 70 = 1146cc
12a = 1146cc
(1146 / 70) * 80 = 1310cc
13b = 1308cc
(1308 / 80) * 90 = 1471cc
15b = 1471cc (Mazda already made a 15a in the 70s)

Will the new Mazda concept be a 4th gen rx-7 with a 15b engine? or maybe a turbo?

Brian

There's all this talk by some members how the car is about handling, as opposed to straight-line performance, but how many of you actually go out and autocross regularly? Will that extreme handling performance be utilized making a right or left hand turn into a supermarket?

I don't think so.

Often times the only way for people to showcase the power and potential of their car is in a straight line duel. For anybody to demean these people's idea of fast is petty and unnecessary. Personally, I do attend autocross events, and the RX-8 will need more power in order to be competitive with many of the cars racing out there. A quick turbo upgrade is all that it needs to get in the game.

Originally posted by koolaid80
There's all this talk by some members how the car is about handling, as opposed to straight-line performance, but how many of you actually go out and autocross regularly? Will that extreme handling performance be utilized making a right or left hand turn into a supermarket?

I don't think so.

Often times the only way for people to showcase the power and potential of their car is in a straight line duel. For anybody to demean these people's idea of fast is petty and unnecessary. Personally, I do attend autocross events, and the RX-8 will need more power in order to be competitive with many of the cars racing out there. A quick turbo upgrade is all that it needs to get in the game.
If you REALLY attended parking lot autocross events THEN you would KNOW that power is the last thing needed on MOST of the courses. Tires and suspension is what usually seperates the best from the rest plus driving skills. Most auto-x courses are tight and engine power is simply not a factor. Civics and Miatas keep winning their classes against Corvettes Z06 and 350hp Camaros. So much for your "quick turbo upgrade" http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_klein_1/Smilies_klein_1_1/shakemitkopf.gif http://64.207.13.28/mysmilies/cwm/3dlil/nonono2.gif

Speaking from personaly experience I "use and feel" my suspension/tires upgrades all the time. Everytime I change lanes or make a turn, I use the "handling" Engine power upgrades are not used nearly as ofter as suspension.

yup... i'd rather be on an independantly suspended 120 hp machine than a 200 hp live-axel-front-and-back setup too... ;)

on a more serious note, i actually DO enjoy "flying" (at 35 kph in my Echo) around corners as i'm driving day to day...

"Perhaps KKMmaniac can post a diagram of the Mazda's previous twin-scroll turbo from the book "RX-7 - The New Mazda RX-7 and Mazda Rotary Engine Sports Cars"?"

Ok Buger:

I just got the hint. (I haven't been paying attention!) I scanned a bunch of crap, (twin scroll turbo and 12a turbo) from Mr. Yamaguchi's book, and zipped it into a file. However, it's almost a meg in size. Let me know how I can get it to you, if you want.

I don't have the technical patience (or smarts!) to determine if or how a turbo could be used with the Renesis, but I would think, side ports or not, some approach could be used to harness the exhaust power for a turbo!

Originally posted by KKMmaniac
Let me know how I can get it to you, if you want.

could ya hit me too??? andrew_keech@hotmail.com

danke. :)

Originally posted by Buger


It sounds like Mazda is trying to go the NA route with 10mm wider rotors instead of turbos though. It will be the logical progression for Mazda to increase the rotary displacement:

10a = 982cc
(982 / 60) * 70 = 1146cc
12a = 1146cc
(1146 / 70) * 80 = 1310cc
13b = 1308cc
(1308 / 80) * 90 = 1471cc
15b = 1471cc (Mazda already made a 15a in the 70s)

Will the new Mazda concept be a 4th gen rx-7 with a 15b engine? or maybe a turbo?

Brian

This is where I see the new gen 7 going. It seems the manufacturers are starting to move away from turbos due to their increased complexity necessary to run properly under all conditions and pass increasingly stringent emissions requirements.

The only problem is that the even the new RX-8 lacks low-end torque, despite its top-end breathing capabilities. Winfield said that you really had to rev the 8 to get some good steam from the engine room, similar to the character of Honda's S2000. Yes, I know a lot of us could care less about low-end torque, but for a street-driven car, it's pretty much a necessity. Anyone who's enjoyed the quick spool-up and nice midrange pull of a sequential FD knows what I mean.

Crank(whoops, I mean rotor)-driven superchargers offer an alternative means of increasing power, but they also bring some of the same problems that the turbos have, plus some additional ones like low-end power losses from drag/friction (superchargers work OK on bigger V6s and V8s because the engines already have decent torque; the rotary would probably struggle with the added frictional losses). And there still is the nagging dilemma of the lower temp exhaust gases to properly heat a cat con to deal with the additional exhaust gases generated by forced induction.

Whatever the case may be, I'd still like to see Mazda stick it to the other manufacturers and blow'em out of the water with a pure, no compromise sports car that offers supreme performance for a reasonable price.