In case you didn't know.

MAZDA SPECIAL PROGRAM (MSP16) - ENGINE LACK OF POWER - PCM REFLASH Added 03/14/08
http://www.finishlineperformance.com/pdf/rx8/bulletin/01-013-08-1925.pdf

The post card I had gotten last week that we all thought was a TSB apparently is a full on recall. I made my appointment for Saturday @ Wayne Mazda. I'll be there at 8 AM. As a matter of fact Chrism is there now getting it handled.

please let us know how it goes.

probably Chrism could chime in and tell if there is a noticeable difference

I'll keep an eye on this thread

went well....you can actually feel the car pulling harder after this....but i also insisted on the de-carb

went well....you can actually feel the car pulling harder after this....but i also insisted on the de-carb

when you said you insisted on the the de-carb that means you put pressure on them to do it and get it covered under warranty or I'm wrong ??

I'm right out on long island, and I havnt gotten a postcard yet. I'm assuming they send this out to all RX-8 owners? I know they have my address. I'm at 51K miles, but even if they only care about people who are still under warranty, the powertrain dealie is till 60K. Has anyone else not heard anything from Mazda?

It's a recall so you don't need the post card just make an appointment it is an actual recall.

the de-carb is for no start.......apparently the recall is just for the flash

Actually, just as an official word. Apparently most people at mazda have been confusing this TSB & Recall:

The recall is MSP16 which is ONLY a PCM Reflash for people who want it reflashed but have no complaints.

For the Engine Decarbonization TSB there needs to be a customer complaint of "Lack Of Power", i dont know why or who (at my work at least) decided it was only for no starts but as soon as i heard that i was like "hmm thats not what i remember reading"

Just a small excerpt from the official mazda tech site's TSB posting:

"TSB: 01-014/08
2004-2008 RX-8 - ENGINE LACK OF POWER
BULLETIN NOTE
This bulletin supersedes the previous bulletin 01-014/08, issued 3/19/2008. The WARRANTY INFORMATION has been revised.

APPLICABLE MODEL(S)/VINS
2004-2008 RX-8

DESCRIPTION
Some customers may experience a lack of engine power and an low engine idle speed during high ambient temperatures. This may be caused by poor sealing of rotor chambers due to an accumulation of carbon on the rotor housing trocoid surface. This is caused by a lack of metering oil lubrication during engine start or insufficient ignition timing under high ambient temperature condition. A revised PCM calibration is available which increases metering oil lubrication amount during engine start. Ignition timing under high ambient temperature is recalibrated as well.

Customers who are currently experiencing a lack of engine power and low engine idle speed should have their vehicle repaired using the following repair procedure."

Note that last paragraph, nothing about a no start situation, just lack of power.

Kevin.

thank you for clarifying.....very happy to have some one finally assisting us at a decent dealer!.....you should read some of the horror stories that are eminating from the likes of Sansone and Lodi....its tragic....thats why i have been referring every one i know to Wayne.....they take care of thier people....which is why im a huge advocate of them!

thank you for clarifying.....very happy to have some one finally assisting us at a decent dealer!.....you should read some of the horror stories that are eminating from the likes of Sansone and Lodi....its tragic....thats why i have been referring every one i know to Wayne.....they take care of thier people....which is why im a huge advocate of them!

Yea figured I'd clkarify it because that situation today confused the hell out of me, thats why ocne i heard mike say it was only for no starts i went right to the warranty guy lol.

We hear stories about all the mazda dealers all the time....hell we have to work on their problem cars all the time too. Should see some of the stuff weve seen come out of the other dealers.

kevin.

i know of a blue one in specific from very recently..........

Just got a call today about this recall. Nice to see you guys started a thread on here to save me time doing a "Search".

search n00b!!

StFu Ricerboi!
Hmm curious if this will get rid of my excessive Vibration and bad gasmilage.. wait no.. thats my mounts blown (again!) and clogged CAT (no cel again)....... lol.. I wish gas was cheaper 'cause I'd haul ass down to this dealer Chrism... UGH!

dude take the hit and drive down.....it might save you the aggravation!

Got mine plus an oil change.. car feels for responsive and smoother.. as for power, its about that same.

StFu Ricerboi!
Hmm curious if this will get rid of my excessive Vibration and bad gasmilage.. wait no.. thats my mounts blown (again!) and clogged CAT (no cel again)....... lol.. I wish gas was cheaper 'cause I'd haul ass down to this dealer Chrism... UGH!

is your car manual or auto?

Autos generally always vibrate, impossible to get rid of completely.

Whenever i get an 8 that vibrates and is stick the only way Ive found that completely kills it is replacing the mounts (with the proper ones, AT and MT are interchangeable but totally different and you can feel the difference) then i inspect the cat efficiency, then i inspect the coils any sign of a burn and inspect for fouled plugs.

Ive found the cars tend to misfire without ever registering it to the ecu or setting an ecu, its somewhat astounded me in the past Ive been able to audibly hear a misfire and yet the ecu will tell me there isnt one. Lots of times an engine misfire is misdiagnosed as mounts because the CEL isnt on, youd be surprised the amount of vibes a misfire at idle will cause. after driving so many different 8's so often i can generally tell you if your car is misfiring or low on power just by taking it for a trip up the highway.

kevin.

clav's car is autotragic 4 port........and they got porters up there in his dealer that call mazda for everything......no real wrench's

Yes I'm a Auto. I wouldnt mind some vibration but at times this is like massage chair and at times violent vibration. I'm on my second set as I stated. Also my dealer is less than up to snuff on their 8 knowledge. They are only about a few miles away and the next nearest one is about 20 or so miles away if not more. Be nice if this "Recall" will correct the vibration at idle. Oh and I forget at times its so violent it shakes the exhaust (can hear the noise inside the cabin).

Wish I had a extra cash stash 'cause I'd be driving down to see you next week. Every offence to my local dealer but you know what your talking about. If ya want more info send me a PM dont wish to thread jack anymore than I already am haha.

cool beans
I setup a service call for sat Morning also
I did it thru there online service as in the Past so I will see if they are not to booked for Sat.hope everything works out lack of power sucks !

So it does not matter if you are out of warranty right?

so i got the full thing done............. one weeek later.......

I got 50 more miles out of my tank. the hesitation at wot is gone. the gas smell is gone for when i rev line the car. i think they leaned out the fuel at + 7k

also the but dyno says its more responsive. sweeeeeet!

is there a point in getting my engine decarbed if i have ~19k miles?

is there a point in getting my engine decarbed if i have ~19k miles?

Same question only I have under 2k miles, lol:lol:

Thanks for the heads up!

i got mine decarbed at just under 30k

I think I'll get mine de-carbed then, I have around 37K.

i got some miles on my baby. I will be making my opp. good thread.

Ok, just scheduled my appointment @ schwartz.. They're gonna decarb, fix my fishtank taillight, flash me and cut/program me a new key. I bought the remote here for $25 and the key cut/program is gonna cost me (wait for it....) $158.
OUCH. At least I'm getting some other stuff done now too, and Noel said they'd def. do the decarbing process for me. What's pretty cool is that if the engine gets gunked up at say 80k miles, I could always just buy a can of that crap for 20 bucks and do it myself, and have a whole new engine.. Maybe that process will be part of my 20/40/60/100k service plan...

For the Engine Decarbonization TSB there needs to be a customer complaint of "Lack Of Power" ...Thanks, Kevin. Is there any determination of what exactly constitutes "lack of power"?

I have a 04 a/t with 16k on it. When does the mounts go bad? I have no vibration

the mounts should never go bad.....but they do...it depends

I see above that teknics points out that this TSB is for Lack of Power only and not "no starts". I have a problem with warm stop / starts. If I drive a distance of 15 - 20 miles, stop for 5-10mins (eg to pop into shop for paper) and then try to start car - intermittently it won't start. I have to wait 20-30mins for the car to cool down and then it starts ok. Sometimes it will start - but it can take a couple of attempts. Has anybody else experienced this and does applying this TSb help?

The thread subject TSB doesn't apply, but the "engine cranks no start" TSB very well may:

http://www.finishlineperformance.com/pdf/rx8/bulletin/01-015-08-1883a.pdf

I see above that teknics points out that this TSB is for Lack of Power only and not "no starts". I have a problem with warm stop / starts. If I drive a distance of 15 - 20 miles, stop for 5-10mins (eg to pop into shop for paper) and then try to start car - intermittently it won't start. I have to wait 20-30mins for the car to cool down and then it starts ok. Sometimes it will start - but it can take a couple of attempts. Has anybody else experienced this and does applying this TSb help?

No - "engine cranks no start" - only applies when engine doesn't start because it has not reached normal operating temperature. I have no problems with a cold stop / start. It's once the car heats up after a longish journey that it occurs.

so which warranty applies for this recall and the "engine crank no start" TSB? is it the bumper to bumper or powertrain?

This isn't just a TSB it is an MSP (manufacturer service program) a true recall comes from the government and is safety related. In the case of an MSP, it is manufacturer called (something short of a recall) and applies to all vehicles in the VIN range regardless of warranty or mileage. So for the MSP reflash, you go in and it is free no matter what mileage you have on the vehicle.

Sorry, missed your already warmed up part.

In the old days that would appear to be a 'vapor lock' issue, but that shouldn't happen in this engine, although it could still be fuel pump/line related.

You certainly should take it in for service, although it may be difficult for the dealership to reproduce unless they too run it for quite some time under load.

No - "engine cranks no start" - only applies when engine doesn't start because it has not reached normal operating temperature. I have no problems with a cold stop / start. It's once the car heats up after a longish journey that it occurs.

wayne mazda is dicking me around. so pissed how my day went with them on the phone first I was never called or emailed back on my schedule appointment.
made appointment online on Wed, today I call to make sure i can bring car in tomorrow. well I cant, nobody tells me this.
reason is tech's arent available to work on cars like that on sat it has to be a monday thru friday job.recalls or tsb cant be done. WTF I work and travel never home and sat is my only day. btw I am on a business meeting while this is all going on so I dont want to deal with the stress and say since you cant help me there is no reason we should continue to talk.
one hour later i get a call saying they got my email request. for schedule appointment Umm we spoke a hour ago you told me no good for friday. But say girl calls and is now all happy joy joy. so i explain we already talked and you could not help me.
sucks I am having a tough time with the dealer. I never had any issues with them and always recommend them but mazda has always dicked me around one way or another. I spent a shit load of money on my rotary cars and never get this hassle from my Acura cars. NSX From now on.

dude just go in....jeff is getting his car done on saturday

this is total bullshit
I will have to email wayne mazda and speak to someone that would like to explain to me how I got 3hrs of recalls done 2 months ago on a sat.
there only problem was that i had to wait 3hrs I was like i dont mind you are doing me a favor.

Be careful! I had MSP16 done today alongside the condensation in rear light that I've been too busy to do for 6 months.

They performed the repairs, and I told them not to wash the car so they won't strip my wax or scratch the clearcoat further. Unfortunately their "Full Circle Inspection" that reads "...a visual inspection of basic vehicle...fluids...etc" I took to mean the "visual" part literally. They actually filled my washer fluid tank that I had painstakingly emptied with a turkey baster to save weight. So I will have to shop around and locate another turkey baster, in order to empty to reservoir again. And I suspect that they might have topped off my engine oil, of course using an oil that is non-compatible with what I put in there!

Compounding the mix, they did not put the MSP16 campaign stickers underneath the hood nor the blue campaign label. They probably are not required to follow the TSB documents word-for-word and they figure it doesn't matter since my vehicle maintenance history is all saved into their computer system anyway. They have some other manual that they follow to a bare minimum I'm sure, just enough to cover their asses.

It's bad enough to drive a Mazda CX7 - "What being in Hell feels like", worse to arrive in a CX7 to find your rx8 in a condition requiring more work still.

Tell them to do only those items that you want, and if they automatically add some "Full Circle Inspection" for free have them strike it off the list. And tell them to just leave it alone! They are trained to say, "Well, we do hand washes" which proves they know nothing about that if they think that puts your mind at ease.

dude you just got a bad dealer i think

Be careful! I had MSP16 done today alongside the condensation in rear light that I've been too busy to do for 6 months.

They performed the repairs, and I told them not to wash the car so they won't strip my wax or scratch the clearcoat further. Unfortunately their "Full Circle Inspection" that reads "...a visual inspection of basic vehicle...fluids...etc" I took to mean the "visual" part literally. They actually filled my washer fluid tank that I had painstakingly emptied with a turkey baster to save weight. So I will have to shop around and locate another turkey baster, in order to empty to reservoir again. And I suspect that they might have topped off my engine oil, of course using an oil that is non-compatible with what I put in there!

Compounding the mix, they did not put the MSP16 campaign stickers underneath the hood nor the blue campaign label. They probably are not required to follow the TSB documents word-for-word and they figure it doesn't matter since my vehicle maintenance history is all saved into their computer system anyway. They have some other manual that they follow to a bare minimum I'm sure, just enough to cover their asses.

It's bad enough to drive a Mazda CX7 - "What being in Hell feels like", worse to arrive in a CX7 to find your rx8 in a condition requiring more work still.

Tell them to do only those items that you want, and if they automatically add some "Full Circle Inspection" for free have them strike it off the list. And tell them to just leave it alone! They are trained to say, "Well, we do hand washes" which proves they know nothing about that if they think that puts your mind at ease.
i hate to defend a dealer but in their defense, most people would have been grateful to have their fluids topped. i personally wouldn't want it done since i want to know what goes in but most of the general population would be quite happy that they would walk away from a MSP with their oil and wiper fluid checked and filled.

They actually filled my washer fluid tank that I had painstakingly emptied with a turkey baster to save weight. So I will have to shop around and locate another turkey baster, in order to empty to reservoir again.



you're kidding, right? You realize that's only about 8 pounds?

Alright let me try to get back to everyone:
robrecht: there's no way to determine a loss of power, just tell them you can definitely feel it, its not something you can go test drive and determine, so youll be fine.

Julie: depending on your mileage that could be a couple things. Although the description is somewhat vague I'd suspect your starter maybe be going bad or you may have a weak ignition (possibly due to coils). The only way to really figure youre probably would be a hands-on inspection. Also check your fluid levels, a low oil level actually can lead to longer starts.

CTrx8: The ecu reflash should be free no matter what. The Decarbonization should be on your extended powertrain warranty, I'm not 100% sure as I dont deal with the price side of things much.

Kel RX8: let me apologize for your situation with them. If you werent able to get in on this saturday just stop by next saturday I'll be working and I'll assure that you get in and hav the work done to your car. I have a feeling since there were no dedicated rx8 techs there that saturday that they were trying to get you to wait until one of us were there. Sorry they went around it in a horrible manner tho, the recepitonists are told we only do oil changes and services on saturdays but if you just walkin we will normally take you right away. I apologize on there behalf. Also do you have the names of any of the people you dealt with? i will make a note of bringing it to our managers attention.

User24: Seems youre just in a dealer hunt, in my opinion. First why ae you emptying your washer fluid with a turkey baster? why not either spray it all out or unbolt the tank, i think its two 10mm nuts, and empty it out but flipping it upside down plenty of ways to do it in like 5 seconds, no need for a turkey baster. As for topping off your oil, if they didnt top off your oil ad you blew your motor after visiting them youd have a logical complaint against them, they need to protect themselves. If you really dont want any additional free services expressly tell them to not touch any fluids, im sure the tech will enjoy not having to look at any of your fluid levels, not like its fun topping off fluids for free when we could be making time fixing real problems.

I understand you probably care a lot for your car but it also seems you knew ahead to ask for them not to touch anything yet you decided not to say it. As for the comment about the cx7...i agree im not a fan, especially since we have been replacing the turbos on them at a ridiculous rate. the only car that motor can handle is the speed3, the speed6 and cx7 are too big for that motor/turbo and stress it to the point of breaking constanty, and its not a fun/quick swap except on the 2wd cx7s which arent too common in my area.

hope i didnt miss anyone, if i did PM me or repost here, thanks, glad to be of service to you guys.

kevin.

robrecht: there's no way to determine a loss of power, just tell them you can definitely feel it, its not something you can go test drive and determine, so youll be fine.Thanks, Kevin. Really helpful. Just so you know, my local dealer (Flemington, NJ) interprets the recall flash/decarbon TSB to say that they do the flash (of course) and then only the TSB if the flash doesn't resolve the customer complaint of loss of power. Sounds like I'd need to make at least two trips. Bit of a pain, but that's the way they are I guess.

Thanks, Kevin. Really helpful. Just so you know, my local dealer (Flemington, NJ) interprets the recall flash/decarbon TSB to say that they do the flash (of course) and then only the TSB if the flash doesn't resolve the customer complaint of loss of power. Sounds like I'd need to make at least two trips. Bit of a pain, but that's the way they are I guess.

yea some dealers dont care about the "fix it right" motto mazda has and dont mind making customers come back repeatedly, our goal is always to fix ti right the first time altho thats not always possible we do our best to reach that standard.

kevin.

yea some dealers dont care about the "fix it right" motto mazda has and dont mind making customers come back repeatedly, our goal is always to fix ti right the first time altho thats not always possible we do our best to reach that standard.

kevin.Thanks again, just googled to see how far Wayne is from Flemington. It's so nice to talk to a true rotorhead mechanic. There's a great rotorhead parts guy in Harrisburg, PA, no bs just straight talk and loves our rotaries (also has a 7).

thanks kevin are you sure you dont work in the customer service dept ? LoL
I dont want to get anyone in trouble but thankyou.
I was though a little upset when jeff my buddy was gettting his car done today for the same things I asked for.anyway thats the past.
so How do I go about getting my car done I prefer to have you work on my vehicle. and I have one quick question maybe you can answer. I need a alignment and have 20's is that a problem and any chance of getting a negative 1 on my rears.
thank you for your help I really appreciate it.

Teknics -- On saterdays you guys take walkin's?

how did you guys make out at wayne yesterday?

Going in Tomorrow for this. How soon after the reflash does the improvements become evident? I know or believe it takes times for the PCM to relearn trims and all that crap. Just be curious as to how they treat me after they see my rear endlink is snapped (they'll be doing a oil change at the same time).

changes are immediate bro

i'm going in tomorrow for brake squeak.. hopefully they won't gimme a problem if I ask to get the flash done as well..

driving to wayne mazda from queens for some reason.. i guess i feel more comfortable.. my other options are great neck or manhattan mazda?

al

both great neck and manhattan dont have the best reps...

Yeah thanks, I just set mine up for this Friday!!!

I got my recall done saturday go there early my appointment was @ 11am but i was there a@ 10AM. They worked on my car around 11am and was out of there by 1130AM the latest i think.

Now i have to stay i deff feel the differance. When I down shift its when I feel it the most. When I used to down shift to pass cars I would feel a bit sluggish before the rpms would really take over....now it is more responsive in the same situation just sooner and a il stronger i think. I played w/it yesterday on my way to green acres mall in LI...and deff felt it pull harder. I deff recomend getting th erecall done.

I also noticed that the tones of the engine changes a bit...sort of deeper...

Very happy.

^^did you get the decarb or just the reflash?

dude im under 2k, lol...what carb? lol just reflash.

I went in last Thursday, April 10 to get the reflash and de-carb done at Southern States Mazda in Raleigh, NC. I have a 6MT 2004 with 53,000 miles.

After about an hour, I was told they were able to do the de-carb but their computer was down and they couldn't do the reflash until next week. Let me say that I could tell a difference immediately in the power and smoothness of the engine from just the de-carb process by itself. As for actual results, I ended up getting about 20mpg averaging about 80 mph for my 400 mile road trip this past weekend as opposed to the regular 15-17 mpg.

The dealership called me today and said they got their computer back and I could stop by and get the reflash done. Luckily it only took about 10 minutes and I was out the door. As soon as I started the car, the engine dropped to ~500 rpms and almost stallled. I was skeptical at first but I was able to get the car idling normally and left the dealership. On my drive back to the office, I noticed an improved response from the car especially over 5,000 rpm. It seems to spin more easily and without restriction or hesitation. I have to say I'm a fan of this reflash and de-carb procedure. Like a previous poster said, I'll probably do this de-carb myself every 20,000 miles or so. Maybe more depending on the performance.

I'm also now a big fan of Southern States Mazda in Raleigh. If you live in the area, stop by...they seemed very eager to help me with my problems.

BTW...I will never again go to Capital Mazda in Cary again.

How much does the de-carb cost? I might as well get it done since I have almost 50,000 on the engine.

^Free dude...get'r'done!

Really! Just say that you are having a "Lack of power" and ba-da-bing...an appointment awaits. Apparently, the de-carb process takes about an hour so bring a good magazine. The reflash is done during the wait...assuming their computer is working.

Good Luck

^Free dude...get'r'done!

Really! Just say that you are having a "Lack of power" and ba-da-bing...an appointment awaits. Apparently, the de-carb process takes about an hour so bring a good magazine. The reflash is done during the wait...assuming their computer is working.

Good Luck

I'll make sure to tell them to decarb the engine. Watch those wormsters try to make me pay for it. lol

Well so far the car feels like it grew a small set. Engine note is as others have stated a bit deeper (meaner if I had to label it). Mileage dunno filled her up just after I left the dealership. Took them 2 FRIGGIN' HOURS to reflash and do a oil change. Then to top if off the fuckers scratched my MintBlue Spoiler. The Service Manager put some touch up paint on it though so yeah.. UGH... I was soooo pissed had to do some deep breathing to relax myself, cause I was ready to explode. He had the nerve to ask "Are you sure it wasnt there before hand?" I just said "I know for a fact it wasnt" the scratch was in a obvious spot and was rather long 1/2 inch atleast. UGH ok shutting up.. so far meh like flash still hate Gallery Mazda.

dam bro sorry to hear about the scratch...did the touchup at least mask the scratch if not id have them redo it on their out of pocket...

yah- my car lacks power all-around... lol does it qualify? :)

kevin whats wrong with you......touch up?....i would have it at my body shop....period...

Got it done today at Wayne Mazda. Took 3 hours to fix my break squeal and reflash me :(.

So far, no noticeable difference other than it seemed like it was a bit easier on gas! :)

alz0rz
dude you coming out to the tuesday meet tomorrow?

alz0rz
dude you coming out to the tuesday meet tomorrow?

I would so scan my work schedule so you can see i'm not trying to beat around the bush :( I truly can't make it.. and havent been able to because of work. I get next weeks schedule in a day or two, hoping for the best for next week. :bowdown:

Keep in mind that when they reflash, they pull the room fuse, so you should wait until after you've done a good bit of cruise driving before you say you gained horsepower.

Most people notice a difference in power after the room fuse is pulled, and I'm willing to bet that most people who are noticing a difference in horsepower are just noticing the difference from that.

I noticed a difference in power the first day or two after having that reflash, but now it feels the same as it used to.

Ken

Would it matter that my 8 is turbo charged? will they still perform the decarb and the flash w/o problems?

i think i may need to go have the reflash and de-carb done as well. how do i know if i'm still under warranty? i have almost 41K mi already. would i need to pay for any of it?

I got the flash done, no decarb. Car feels more powerful all around, it's very noticable when I'm in a higher gear and step on it a little.. Probably just the room fuse, but maybe the reflash helped too.. Either way, more oil on startup is a good thing.

i think i may need to go have the reflash and de-carb done as well. how do i know if i'm still under warranty? i have almost 41K mi already. would i need to pay for any of it?


cal the 1 800 # for MAZDAUSA, give them your VIN # and they'll tell you

Greeeaaat Fuel Mileage... I mean it... :uhh:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/lordclavius/IMG_4844.jpg

same deal with me Clavius.. but I know its because I had been doing alot of city driving. Its amazing how drastic the MPG change is from highway to city. Today.. from Queens to Wayne to Middlesex and back to NY I averaged about ~220 on the tank. However, the week before I got a mere 160 miles to the tank... I didn't even do full city, probably 50% city.. but still.. it's terrible.. and yet I love my car :).

is there a way to check if any tsb/recall applies to ur own car online? or is the only way to check this by calling a dealership. cause i hate the dealership im at

alzorz i wish i can get 160 to the tank!! lol i do 90% city driving and what kills me is i let my car warm up in the mourning to go to work my job is 5 minutes from my house and i think such short distances is whats killing me but last week i managed 88.9 miles to a full tank of gas.. i dont even beat on it i get on it once in a great while

wow.. that's horrendous

yea i did have a bad 02 sensor but i cant imagine it hurting the gas mileage that bad..

man... i'm getting this done tomorrow but i'm kinda hesitant. my gas mileage has been ridiculous for the past 6+ months.. 270 miles per fill up. but i figure, i'm turbo'ing on april 24th... why not

man... i'm getting this done tomorrow but i'm kinda hesitant. my gas mileage has been ridiculous for the past 6+ months.. 270 miles per fill up. but i figure, i'm turbo'ing on april 24th... why not

ridiculous as in good or bad...? 270 is awesome!! :ylsuper:

alzorz i wish i can get 160 to the tank!! lol i do 90% city driving and what kills me is i let my car warm up in the mourning to go to work my job is 5 minutes from my house and i think such short distances is whats killing me but last week i managed 88.9 miles to a full tank of gas.. i dont even beat on it i get on it once in a great while

holy... 88.9 miles on say 14.5 gallons = something like 6.5 mpg.. thats like worse then the bugatti veyron territory :ftw:

holy... 88.9mpg on say 14.5 gallons = something like 6.5 mpg.. thats like worse then the bugatti veyron territory :ftw:

that can't be right... unless he's driving around with a loaded trunk and back seats and warms up his car for 30+ mins, heel toes every unnecessary turns, revs at red lights and stop signs.... ouch

alzorz i wish i can get 160 to the tank!! lol i do 90% city driving and what kills me is i let my car warm up in the mourning to go to work my job is 5 minutes from my house and i think such short distances is whats killing me but last week i managed 88.9 miles to a full tank of gas.. i dont even beat on it i get on it once in a great while

You CAT is clogged! Sorry I had that type of mileage and my CAT was clogged for the longest time and it didnt throw a CEL. Eventually it did and after it was replaced my mileage popped up to 16mpg City. How does the car feel at WOT does it feel bogged down and the exhaust note sound deep and muffled? I could be wrong I admit but I've seen it to many times on here. Especially if your doing short trips it kills our CAT due to running rich for awhile.

Oh I love how now at 1.5 to about 3.5k there is no hesitation I noticed this last night but didnt post it due to me being in shock of the horendous gas mileage I have. That and at 5k it now seems to well be hesitant for a moment. Like its breaking a ceiling barrier. Odd to describe wish I had a video camera so to show you what I mean.

i got it done today.... couldn't reall tell with shot coils and spark plugs haha.

so How do I go about getting my car done I prefer to have you work on my vehicle. and I have one quick question maybe you can answer. I need a alignment and have 20's is that a problem and any chance of getting a negative 1 on my rears.
thank you for your help I really appreciate it.

Call them up, I'll be there this saturday. Explain the services you want, if they tell you that the recall takes too long etc, explain to them that you know it is only a 5 minute thing. If anything try to talk to Ben or Mike, i'll give them a headsup.

As for the alignment, it all depends on the wheel lip and tire combo, but our alignment heads can handle 23's i think.

As for specific alignment setups, make a note of it to the writer and simply request that Only I work on it (kevin, obviously)

Teknics -- On saterdays you guys take walkin's?

Depends on how the saturday is and what time you show up, i would call ahead tho.

Got it done today at Wayne Mazda. Took 3 hours to fix my break squeal and reflash me :(.

So far, no noticeable difference other than it seemed like it was a bit easier on gas! :)

Sorry for such a long wait, we were pretty congested at the time which happens whne servicing 120+ cars a day on average, I felt bad for the wait since the majority of the time I didnt even have the ticket yet. Then I had to wait for the Brake Lathe as both were being used. Hopefully the brakes make no more noise, let me know.

Keep in mind that when they reflash, they pull the room fuse, so you should wait until after you've done a good bit of cruise driving before you say you gained horsepower.

Most people notice a difference in power after the room fuse is pulled, and I'm willing to bet that most people who are noticing a difference in horsepower are just noticing the difference from that.

I noticed a difference in power the first day or two after having that reflash, but now it feels the same as it used to.

Ken

We don't pull the room fuse. We plug in the OBD adapter, go to "module Reprogramming" select "PCM" and then simply turn your key on and off in sequence as instructed. Either way I dont even think the room fuse is connected to the PCM.

i think i may need to go have the reflash and de-carb done as well. how do i know if i'm still under warranty? i have almost 41K mi already. would i need to pay for any of it?

If you really want you can send me your VIN and I can check it out for you.

is there a way to check if any tsb/recall applies to ur own car online? or is the only way to check this by calling a dealership. cause i hate the dealership im at

Same reply as above, send me your vin and I can run a check on it for you.

thanks again guys, sorry Ive been missing for a few days, working on buying my first bike so been doing tons of research, Yamaha Vmax here I come :).

Oh and hopefully I can swing by for tonights meet.

kevin.

I bring my car to the dearler today for MSP16 . The only thing tech did is reprogram PCM. I have 59,560 miles on the car and the service was free on this recall. I drove the car back to work today and I did feel the different. Alots smoother and a little gain of power.

If you really want you can send me your VIN and I can check it out for you.



Same reply as above, send me your vin and I can run a check on it for you.

thanks again guys, sorry Ive been missing for a few days, working on buying my first bike so been doing tons of research, Yamaha Vmax here I come :).

Oh and hopefully I can swing by for tonights meet.

kevin.

PMed. thanks. my dad has one of those bikes. he likes it a lot. or maybe its a V Star. oh well i can't remember. i'm sure you'll love it.

Sorry for such a long wait, we were pretty congested at the time which happens whne servicing 120+ cars a day on average, I felt bad for the wait since the majority of the time I didnt even have the ticket yet. Then I had to wait for the Brake Lathe as both were being used. Hopefully the brakes make no more noise, let me know.

kevin.

np dude, it's great to see my car was in good hands :).

The brakes are perfect right now. Were you the tech that took my car out for the drive as well? I watched as you pulled it away and saw you when you came back.. I hope you didn't mind the quart of RP Synthetic I had stashed under the passenger seat which apparently found its way out, just pretend you didn't see anything!! ;)

I've got a question the cost of de-carb. Some of the posts here sound like it should be covered out of warranty -- is that correct?

My car is out of warranty (45K, Jul 03 -- came over on the first boat I think). Dealer is doing the MSP16 reflash w/ no charge, but is charging me $135 for de-carb. Is this reasonable? Or are they ripping me off?

sounds like they are ripping you off if its part of the hard start TSB.....that and why are you out of warantee.....they extended the 04's to 5/50 with the last recall

I've got a question the cost of de-carb. Some of the posts here sound like it should be covered out of warranty -- is that correct?

My car is out of warranty (45K, Jul 03 -- came over on the first boat I think). Dealer is doing the MSP16 reflash w/ no charge, but is charging me $135 for de-carb. Is this reasonable? Or are they ripping me off?

Are you sure ur warranty is out? cuz even my 05 comes with 48K miles / 48 Months Bumper to Bumper warranty.

If urs is really from the *first boat*, ur warranty should be even longer, u might want to check with MNAO.

thanks Kev
going in saturday and have you booked to work on her.
cant wait to see what you find.

Mine will be in the dealer this morning at 8am, I'll let everyone know what I think....

I've got a question the cost of de-carb. Some of the posts here sound like it should be covered out of warranty -- is that correct?

My car is out of warranty (45K, Jul 03 -- came over on the first boat I think). Dealer is doing the MSP16 reflash w/ no charge, but is charging me $135 for de-carb. Is this reasonable? Or are they ripping me off?

Your car is not out of warranty. The original is 4/48 and last years "emissions" recall extended powertrain to 5/60.

I though warranty starts at purchase date, no? Build date doesn't matter. I could be wrong - it happens occasionally. ;) But even if yours started in July 03 you would still be covered until July 08.


EDIT: However, I also think the de-carb procedure is only for lack of power complaints. It is on a separate "lack of power" TSB, not the MSP TSB. So the reflash is free, but the de-carb is part of a separate TSB which would only be free for lack of power complaints.

Notice the top 2 TSB (linked here (http://www.finishlineperformance.com/store/pages.php?pageid=11)) - both are "lack of power" but the top one is the MSP for reflash, while the second one down includes the de-carb for power issues. All my interpretation of them, but that seems to be the case.

Warranty absolutely commences at Purchase Date, vs. build date.

btw: My '05 sat on the lot for a year after its build date to my, new, purchase date. Kinda insane if the warranty clock was already running for that full year before I even owned it.

Your car is not out of warranty. The original is 4/48 and last years "emissions" recall extended powertrain to 5/60.

I thought warranty starts at purchase date, no? Build date doesn't matter. I could be wrong - it happens occasionally. ;)

Exactly. Mine was the same: 2005 bought on March 13, 2006.

SAME WITH MINE!

It's an 05 but it was registed May of 06.. so I get power train up until 2011!! :)

Lucky you - I'm likely to be out of warranty by the beginning of 2010.

Alrighty let's clear up the confusion.

If you absolutely have no warranty (aka it is more then 5 years/ 60k miles since the day you purchased the car) Then:
- MSP16 ECU Flash is free
- Decarbonization of the motor is NOT free.

The reason for this is that the decarb process is a TSB, TSB's are merely there to assist people in diagnosing the car, whereas a RECALL is the manufacturer saying "there is this exact problem with EVERY vehicle".

Now as for "Which TSB involves the engine cleaner"

There are, in fact, 3 individual TSB's involving the Zoom Engine Cleaner:
01-014/08 - Engine Lack Of Power
01-015/08 - Engine Cranks, No Start
01-019/08 - MIL On - DTC P2070 (SSV Stuck Open) Set

The first 2 are obvious and have been discussed, the last one is something that Wayne Mazda was actually part of getting solved. Mazda began seeing numerous P2070 codes on RX8, and the original official fix for a P2070 was replacement of the intake manifold, which is not a cheap solution. So the exact cause was tracked down and thats our new TSB.

It's also a helpful TSB for you guys that are out of warranty, have a code P2070 and don't want to get shafted by the dealer and have to pay for a whole brand new manifold.

So hopefully thats cleared up any questions about when the decarb process is used, and when/why you have to pay for it when out of warranty.

kevin.

kevin you ar the man to be helping everyoen out...Im sure there are going to be members that will benefit from this info.

Got the MSP16 done yesterday. Wanted to wait till I drove the car a couple times before I posted. There is a definite increase in power at lower RPM's. :)

kevin you ar the man to be helping everyoen out...Im sure there are going to be members that will benefit from this info.

+1

:beerchug:

kevin you ar the man to be helping everyoen out...Im sure there are going to be members that will benefit from this info.

when i started with rx7's there were more then a few times when i was like "damn, wish i knew someone that had inside info" and I figure hell now im the one with the dealer/inside info and im sure you rx8 guys need the same info/advice that I used to need.

I'm happy to assist in anyway possible, I've been trying to get to all my PM's to help on a personal level when I come, if you havent gotten a reply yet, dont worry I'll reply soon just sometimes my afterhours work takes up my internet time lol.

BTW got to work on Kel's car today, had to pull the front bumper to get it up on the alignment rack, everyone was coming by making great comments on the car, so its definitely nice to have fellow rotorheads coming by :)

kevin.

glad his car got fixed.....now i can finally stop hearing him whine about it...:) ...sorry bro i couldnt resist:lol2:

/\ lmao....

Kevin everythign you do for us is highly appreciated.

i called Tasca to get the latest flash but they acted like they knew nothing of it and said they couldnt do it unless i had the card in the mail saying i need the recall. sounds funny to me. i'd like to get this done soon, where should i go? i'm in RI. thxs

Hi guys, I have 2005 RX8 and went to the dealership to get my motor mounts replaced because of a rattle/vibration.

The dealership replaced the motor mount and flashed the ECU for free, but charged me $150 dollars for the decarb. The dealership asked me about loss of power, but my car has always had that problem so I replied "it's not worse than usual."

Anyway, I'm rather upset now that I realize the decarb was free especially considering that I had to wait a month to save up the money to get it done on my car. I had the car serviced the month before because I couldn't start it (flooded/bad battery)

Do you guys think it's reasonable to have them refund the money for the work they performed on my car and have it covered under warranty, or should I just take this as one of those "live and learn" lessons?

Do you guys think it's reasonable to have them refund the money for the work they performed on my car and have it covered under warranty, or should I just take this as one of those "live and learn" lessons?

I think it's completely reasonable to expect a refund. The problem is they don't sound, um, reputable if they charged you in the first place. Getting your money back will probably be a massive headache. But it's definitely worth speaking to the service manager and expecting to walk out of there with $150 worth of free service or something along those lines.

i called Tasca to get the latest flash but they acted like they knew nothing of it and said they couldnt do it unless i had the card in the mail saying i need the recall. sounds funny to me. i'd like to get this done soon, where should i go? i'm in RI. thxs

Ugh. Tasca's "service advisors" are circle jerk jackholes. It was a big game trying to get my car in for the taillights, but they did the recall flash when the lights were done. Sadly, when the emissions recall came out in 06 the service mgr at Newport Autocenter (where I bought the car) had the same crappy answer. The local dealers seem to have no original/progressive though, and if there's no paper trail or computer prompt they look at you like you have five heads.

I would say just go to Tasca and set up an appointment at the cashier's desk. (Go in the showroom entrance, then thru the service bays into the waiting room and it's right in front of you) That's what I had to do even after the service guys had ok'd the tail light fix on mine. None of them would bother returning my call after they jerked me around for a weekend before ok'ing the fix. So I went back in and they sent me there to book an appointment anyway. They certainly know what the recall is, but I can give you the reciept item #s from mine.

dmc, i'll let you know about the receipt. i actually had the tail lights done by tasca without any hassle, i also asked them for a copy of all the warranty work that was performed on the car right up to now. i was amazed by how many claims for one car! at least i know the 420 flash was performed and a new cat. i'll try going there in person, its just tuff cause all the mazda techs go home at 4pm...when i get out of work of course.

when the tech saw the condensation in my light he got the ok for the work. he then proceeded to take my registration and all my info and enter it into the computer.

the short version = the tech didn't bother returning my calls to set up an appointment so I went in and asked to set one up. they directed me to the cashier's desk. the cashier then had to enter all my information again b/c somehow it was not in their system. WTF??

which means you could probably just walk in there and set an appointment for a "reflash" and the cashier would not know anything about the conversation you may have had with the techs. once your car is there they will do it b/c it's just a matter of hooking up the computer.

or you could just say you had a CEL. when they go to check it and find no CEL you still get the flash. problem solved. (I had a CEL once, called to bring it in the next morning & it was gone when I started it up the next morning so I just cancelled the appt.)

are the cels saved in memory? was wondering cause i had a plug wire hanging off for who knows how long. the tip of the plug was very rusty. never saw a cel light though. car actually ran ok like that too, better now of course!

We don't pull the room fuse. We plug in the OBD adapter, go to "module Reprogramming" select "PCM" and then simply turn your key on and off in sequence as instructed. Either way I dont even think the room fuse is connected to the PCM.


The ROOM fuse is definitely connected... pulling it pulls the constant battery power that allows the PCM to retain all the trim-table adjustments it makes while you're driving. Pulling that fuse resets to factory defaults essentially. Normally after that people notice a slight power increase until the PCM adjusts again.

I just read the TSB and you're right, the instructions say not to pull the fuse. My dealer told me they DID pull the fuse, so they did something they should not have done.

That said, I noticed a slight power increase the first day, but after I drove it on the highway a few times, it's back to normal.

Ken

The ROOM fuse is definitely connected... pulling it pulls the constant battery power that allows the PCM to retain all the trim-table adjustments it makes while you're driving. Pulling that fuse resets to factory defaults essentially. Normally after that people notice a slight power increase until the PCM adjusts again.

I just read the TSB and you're right, the instructions say not to pull the fuse. My dealer told me they DID pull the fuse, so they did something they should not have done.

That said, I noticed a slight power increase the first day, but after I drove it on the highway a few times, it's back to normal.

Ken

Yea i figured it was connected like all the other ones but I wasnt positive, dont really have any power to the PCM problems.

Anyway, I've never pulled the room fuse when reprogramming any cars, only time it really powers down is when we swap out the PCMs.

BTW, so you all are aware, this MSP16 flash has actually been available to Mazda dealers since near the end of November. I know the first time I used the flash was the first week of December, i probably used it before that but i cant remember. Like I said in a previous topic, the techs know about all these tsbs and reflashes long before the public.

Hell i currently do a recall on the cx9's that is completely not official public knowledge, and wont be for probably at least 6 more months.

kevin.

my car currently has 65,xxx miles on it, but i actually had a reman engine put in under warranty @ 59,xxx miles. they told me the warranty extends for another year or 10k miles, so can i get it de-carb under warranty?

you actually should get a 12 month, 12k mile warranty on that motor. Unfortunately that is a parts warranty only. Which means the decarb would not be free.

kevin.

Yea i figured it was connected like all the other ones but I wasnt positive, dont really have any power to the PCM problems.

Anyway, I've never pulled the room fuse when reprogramming any cars, only time it really powers down is when we swap out the PCMs.

BTW, so you all are aware, this MSP16 flash has actually been available to Mazda dealers since near the end of November. I know the first time I used the flash was the first week of December, i probably used it before that but i cant remember. Like I said in a previous topic, the techs know about all these tsbs and reflashes long before the public.

Hell i currently do a recall on the cx9's that is completely not official public knowledge, and wont be for probably at least 6 more months.

kevin.

While Im waiting for you to reply my pm ... (I buy u a beer if I go Wayne Mazda, I swear !)

Im just wondering, is there any new flashes out for CX-7 ?

Its my father's car, kinda curious.

Thx

are the cels saved in memory? was wondering cause i had a plug wire hanging off for who knows how long. the tip of the plug was very rusty. never saw a cel light though. car actually ran ok like that too, better now of course!

I am not sure. I know it saves info, but I honestly don't know what info or for how long.

BTW, so you all are aware, this MSP16 flash has actually been available to Mazda dealers since near the end of November. I know the first time I used the flash was the first week of December, i probably used it before that but i cant remember. Like I said in a previous topic, the techs know about all these tsbs and reflashes long before the public.


yup, but that doesn't really help much when you have some of the more useless service guys who say things like "we can't do that til you get paperwork in the mail" - choo-know?? lol.

BTW, so you all are aware, this MSP16 flash has actually been available to Mazda dealers since near the end of November. I know the first time I used the flash was the first week of December, i probably used it before that but i cant remember. Like I said in a previous topic, the techs know about all these tsbs and reflashes long before the public.

kevin.

Is there any way you can verify this.

I took my car in for my own "lack of power" complaint at the end of December and they said it was due to my spark plugs and coils. While changing those things (at my cost) despite the fact that they were less than 10k old, the change did help but did not completely resolve my issue. Funny they didn't mention this reflash then...I think I'll make a stop by that dealership (now my old dealership) today and see what things I can get figured out. I hate stealerships...

Anyone in Raleigh, NC...stay away from Capital Mazda. I've only had bad experiences ever since I got on a first name basis with them. I've been pleasantly surprised with Southern States Mazda...that is where I am going from now on.

Is there any way you can verify this.

I took my car in for my own "lack of power" complaint at the end of December and they said it was due to my spark plugs and coils. While changing those things (at my cost) despite the fact that they were less than 10k old, the change did help but did not completely resolve my issue. Funny they didn't mention this reflash then...I think I'll make a stop by that dealership (now my old dealership) today and see what things I can get figured out. I hate stealerships...

Anyone in Raleigh, NC...stay away from Capital Mazda. I've only had bad experiences ever since I got on a first name basis with them. I've been pleasantly surprised with Southern States Mazda...that is where I am going from now on.


dude he is a tech at mazda......what more verification do you need?.....ask me how i know he is a tech......

you actually should get a 12 month, 12k mile warranty on that motor. Unfortunately that is a parts warranty only. Which means the decarb would not be free.

kevin.

bummer, so what's your schedule like? i wanna come to wayne!

wait... chrism how do you know?

because hes worked on all our cars at Wayne Mazda in NJ...

............. and also because he had his own thread introducing himself!!!

dude he is a tech at mazda......what more verification do you need?.....ask me how i know he is a tech......

because hes worked on all our cars at Wayne Mazda in NJ...

............. and also because he had his own thread introducing himself!!!


To you both.

I'm not doubting his tech"ness". I totally understand and believe him. And I wish he could work on my car as well. I also know that a few, if not most, of the techs are smarter (with regards to Mazda issues) than the lame a$$ service reps that you have to deal with at the counter. Unfortnately...I have to deal with the latter.

I am just not underestimating teh stupdiness of MY stealership and telling me i'm teh ertard. Especially when I ask them for a nearly $400 refund for services rendered to my car that may not have been neccesary. I went in for "lack of power" in late December and they said..."it is coils, spark plugs, wires, etc" "now cough up $400" because those are "normal wear items and not covered under warranty," despite the fact they all had less than 10k miles on all of them. Never did they mention "MSP 16" which could have fixed all problems since the problem was still evident when I got my car back.

So...if I plan on collecting $400 (or likeness in Mazda s.w.a.g.)...I want to have all my "ducks in a row" (if you will) so that I can "lay teh smacketh downeth" with proper documentation in hand.

Please know, I now work with an ex-Master Mazda Tech at my current job. He used to be the mechanic that worked on my car at the dealership... a lot. He still knows his stuff and is the first person I talk to when I have an issue. He, however, does not have "insider" information anymore. That is why I was asking.

So...I'll ask again. How can I prove to my stealership that this recall was available in late December.

Thanks

Is there any way you can verify this.

I took my car in for my own "lack of power" complaint at the end of December and they said it was due to my spark plugs and coils. While changing those things (at my cost) despite the fact that they were less than 10k old, the change did help but did not completely resolve my issue. Funny they didn't mention this reflash then...I think I'll make a stop by that dealership (now my old dealership) today and see what things I can get figured out. I hate stealerships...

Anyone in Raleigh, NC...stay away from Capital Mazda. I've only had bad experiences ever since I got on a first name basis with them. I've been pleasantly surprised with Southern States Mazda...that is where I am going from now on.

Most dealerships are loaded with morons who has *ZERO* clues when it comes to fixing cars. including updated flashes.

Good that you found another dealership. Hope everything works for ya :)

I dropped my car off this AM to get this recall work done. I look forward to feeling a difference in the attitude of the car.

I got my cr bck yesterday and I drove bck hom and I didn't jack worth of difference.

apparently they did th recall and the de-carb.

now one question :
what's the procedure for the de-carb??

'cause they told me to fill my car up asap since the car only had about 1/4 of a tank??

I just wander if they just dumped the bg44 in the tank

I didn't notice much difference either, but didn't really expect to. Its an NA car a reflash at most might net a few HP. It feels a bit smoother though on the powerband up top. Anyone seen a dyno of the difference?

Just curious.

Oh and sorry, no clue about the de-carb They needed my car for 4 hours just to do the reflash. De-carb might have taken 3-4 days of around the clock effort to pull off.

Oh!! and after I got it back my remote keyless doesn't work anymore. Any ideas?
Jerm

Four hours for a flash? They did mine and an oil change in less than half an hour, which is what I would expect.

Just got then new flash today..Lovin it..got it done at 128 Liberty Mazda by far the best dealership i've been to..

Is there any way you can verify this.

I took my car in for my own "lack of power" complaint at the end of December and they said it was due to my spark plugs and coils. While changing those things (at my cost) despite the fact that they were less than 10k old, the change did help but did not completely resolve my issue. Funny they didn't mention this reflash then...I think I'll make a stop by that dealership (now my old dealership) today and see what things I can get figured out. I hate stealerships...

Anyone in Raleigh, NC...stay away from Capital Mazda. I've only had bad experiences ever since I got on a first name basis with them. I've been pleasantly surprised with Southern States Mazda...that is where I am going from now on.

I mad ea mistake in my phrasing, i shouldnt say "all" techs know about tsb's and such in advance. Only those who give a damn know. We read all the nbew info mazda sends us and stay in touch with important people. Some techs just dont pay attention or look at anything mazda related and just meander through their day....not really the way I prefer to work.

But yea the MSP16 flash was "unofficially" released way prior to it becoming an actual recall...it makes sense if you think about it anyway. They need a testbed of cars to make sure there are no side effects in normal everyday cars. When cars come in for CEls etc we're instructed to check for PCM updates everytime we connect to the PCM.

But yea they probably just didnt do the flash cause they were probably just not aware of it.

Kevin.

flash done yesterday. seemed a little ... smoother? maybe a little bit extra low end power? we'll see as time goes on.

I mad ea mistake in my phrasing, i shouldnt say "all" techs know about tsb's and such in advance. Only those who give a damn know. We read all the nbew info mazda sends us and stay in touch with important people. Some techs just dont pay attention or look at anything mazda related and just meander through their day....not really the way I prefer to work.

But yea the MSP16 flash was "unofficially" released way prior to it becoming an actual recall...it makes sense if you think about it anyway. They need a testbed of cars to make sure there are no side effects in normal everyday cars. When cars come in for CEls etc we're instructed to check for PCM updates everytime we connect to the PCM.

But yea they probably just didnt do the flash cause they were probably just not aware of it.

Kevin.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question. You are doing this community a world of good, keep up the great work. I really wish I was closer to your shop, I would go to it religously.

Just for your information, if it applies to anyone, Do not go for inspection in NJ right after a reflash. Their equip won't read your computer. I failed for this but they told me to put about 200 miles on it and come back. I did and it passed.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question. You are doing this community a world of good, keep up the great work. I really wish I was closer to your shop, I would go to it religously.

No problem, just here to help :). Perhaps eventually I will be at a dealer near you, been thinking about going down to the carolinas, still a few years away tho.

Just for your information, if it applies to anyone, Do not go for inspection in NJ right after a reflash. Their equip won't read your computer. I failed for this but they told me to put about 200 miles on it and come back. I did and it passed.

That actually pertains to anything with the PCM that clears the memory. Reprogramming the computer or just clearing the CEL stored codes will make you fail inspection until all necessary drive cycle tests are completed by the PCM. This could take any random number of miles. I normally just tell people to wait a week before going to inspection. They do this to stop people from doing what they used to do, theyd have like 50 CEL codes, pay someone to just clear all the codes, drive to inspection before the light came back on, pass, then have the CEL come on as they drive home from inspection.

there are still ways to trick the inspection computers tho, just requires more effort and more powerful computers.

kevin.

No problem, just here to help :). Perhaps eventually I will be at a dealer near you, been thinking about going down to the carolinas, still a few years away tho.

kevin.

Do it...the carolinas are freakin' awesome. Nice people...nice weather...and the best beaches. Oh yeah, we also have the blue ridge mts...and associated parkway...and the beginning of Deal's Gap. This list could go on.

Good Luck...give us a shout in the SE forums if you want to visit.

Peace

Do it...the carolinas are freakin' awesome. Nice people...nice weather...and the best beaches. Oh yeah, we also have the blue ridge mts...and associated parkway...and the beginning of Deal's Gap. This list could go on.

Good Luck...give us a shout in the SE forums if you want to visit.

Peace

AND SOUTH OF THE BORDER!! the fireworks TOWN! victoryyyy

Do it...the carolinas are freakin' awesome. Nice people...nice weather...and the best beaches. Oh yeah, we also have the blue ridge mts...and associated parkway...and the beginning of Deal's Gap. This list could go on.

Good Luck...give us a shout in the SE forums if you want to visit.

Peace

ok,

i have been to most of the beaches in nc. also worked on the obx for several years..

you do not know what a fine beach is..

great driving roads though. but it gets cold up there. :)

beers :beer:

^ Bwahahahahahahaha!!!


cold. pussy.


how many times have you said the phrase "yankee weather" in your lifetime??


:rofl:




:beerchug:

^ Bwahahahahahahaha!!!


cold. pussy.


how many times have you said the phrase "yankee weather" in your lifetime??


:rofl:




:beerchug:

never used the phrase, as x pro skier for 9 years, i think i can say without feeling guilty, cold is bad... been there done that, gave my 4wd subrau wagon w 350k miles to a needy family.

before you call me a pussy i recall walking one day when it got up to 17 below, but the sun was out and no wind. it was a warm feeling..:)

beers :beer:

I hear ya - I still wonder why the hell I have spent so much of my life being "tough" enough to stay in this cold ass climate.

I'll be moving to NC before winter sets in again up here. Trying to get the hell out of the cold*.


*the real cold. lol.


:beerchug:

Should I just say that I received a phone call stating I should bring my Mazda in for a MSP16 Recall/Decarb?? I never got a notice in the mail or by phone :icon_no2: I only have 40K atm, and I do have the extended pt warranty.

I want to bring her in later today and not sound/act like a turd...

Should I just say that I received a phone call stating I should bring my Mazda in for a MSP16 Recall/Decarb?? I never got a notice in the mail or by phone :icon_no2: I only have 40K atm, and I do have the extended pt warranty.

I want to bring her in later today and not sound/act like a turd...They'll do the flash, no questions asked, but they most likely won't do the decarb even if you do make up a story about a phone call, which they won't believe anyway. They'll probably evaluate if they think you need the decarb.

They'll do the flash, no questions asked, but they most likely won't do the decarb even if you do make up a story about a phone call, which they won't believe anyway. They'll probably evaluate if they think you need the decarb.

So what exactly determines the decarb being done? The stealership's evaluation, or a customer complaint?

So what exactly determines the decarb being done? The stealership's evaluation, or a customer complaint?Depends on the dealer. Some might be more inclined to take the customer's word for it. If you have higher mileage and a history of complaints should help. But ultimately it's up to them I think.

Went ahead and got this done today at Classic Mazda in Orlando. My car was done in about 20 minutes.

He saw that I had previously complained about loss of power, etc. before the RECALL & TSB came out so he did it free of charge because my 4 years is up :banghead:
I noticed slightly better throttle response down low as previously noted by others. Dyno anyone?:lol:

ODDDOOD- I've had really good experiences at Capital of Cary. Al there takes good care of my girl, and never hesitates with a good loaner. Now, Millenium up in Durham is a nightmare. I lived literally 1 mile from them, and drove to Cary for service instead.

Now that I'm in NYC, I'll have to visit Kevin for this flash. Good dealerships are really hard to find.

ODDDOOD- I've had really good experiences at Capital of Cary. Al there takes good care of my girl, and never hesitates with a good loaner. Now, Millenium up in Durham is a nightmare. I lived literally 1 mile from them, and drove to Cary for service instead.

Now that I'm in NYC, I'll have to visit Kevin for this flash. Good dealerships are really hard to find.

I used to get good/decent service, but there were a number of times I had to go down there over my lunch break or after work to drive around with a tech to show them what the problem was. One incident, involving the steering wheel rattle, they had refused to perform the fix, despite its actual existence. I drove around for about 2 minutes with Allen (sp?) and he said he would make sure it was taken care of. It did, but I still had to go way out of my way for a problem that did not need my being there to fix.

Another, and more recent, was when I was complaining of a lack of power last december. He (Allen) and the tech said that nothing was wrong. I had to take time out of my schedule to once again drive the tech around. They "concluded" that my plugs, wires, and coils were bad but I had to pay for them all out of pocket since my warranty had expired. (I had already complained about all these things before my warranty was out and they shrugged it off, once again, saying nothing was wrong). They never mentioned the recall that was later made widely available in March, despite its availability according to Teknics.

That was the last time I've ever been there and it will be the last time. I've been doubted too many times. I feel as though they treat me as a burden instead of a customer, despite my valid concerns.

I will never purchase from there or go for service again.

I just bought my RX-8 with 31,000 miles last week. I knew when I got it that there were 3 open recalls, but this one showed up when I went in. The previous owner was in the miltary and had taken it to Germany, never got his notices, didn't use dealer service. Anyway, I thought the car felt really good, but I really think it feels much better now. It seems to have more low end pull. The butt dyno agrees. They also replaced the leading spark plugs? But not the trailing. My husband promised to do this for me (he's only had 12 RX-7's, so I think he can put 2 plugs in a rotary.) They tried to charge me $230 for those 2 plugs to be put in. :icon_no2:

Part of the lesson, don't wait for the card, just go, they've got it on computer. Also, recalls are going to apply regardless of warranty/ owner, for the most part. Once an item gets to recall, it is an issue that is a matter of safety or keeping legal happy.

Now I shall return to trying to find a thread as to why the remotes won't reprogram and why my TPMS light keeps flashing.

Nice to be here.

:)

Thats weird. After I did the recall my key fob stopped working. I took it back in and they said it was a fluke and that the reflash had nothing to do with it. They said I had a faulty keyfob and happily offered to replace it for 200 dollars. HA!! I can manually unlock my doors for awhile thanks.

Did you issues with reprogramming yours happen before or after your recall?

Jerm

They weren't working before the service. I've tried and tried and read everything I could to try to get them to work and no luck.

If you can't get your key fob reprogrammed (check the DIY section), before you buy from the dealer. I went to transponderisland on Ebay. You can buy the keyfob there and they have the programming steps included (much cheaper price than the dealer), but you must have at least one working fob to program a new one yourself. Otherwise, the dealer will probably charge you in the $80-100 range for reprogramming your existing keyfobs. I would also check the battery in the fob.

I put new batteries in both of them, double checked to make sure they were installed correctly, tried multiple times to program them ourselves. I went to the dealer ready to pay $45 to program them, they told me both remotes were bad, but didn't really try to sell me a new one.

Here is my question, I don't have a single working remote, if I buy new ones or ones off of ebay, can I program them without an original?

I was at Great Neck Mazda today. When I walked up to the counter and said my hellos to Mike, he asked straight away, "So you here for the Recall?". No problem getting the MSP-16 flash. I waited 45 mins to get everything done. I drove away and did notice the slightly different tone of exhaust - slightly lower. Anyway, you all have said positive things about this flash so I'm gonna give it a good test tonight.

Anyone know of a good dealer around Philly to get the recalls done? I went to Brandywine today, and was sorely disappointed.

wondering if teknics knows what the acceptable engine idle vacuum should be in in Hg... and where the engine replacement line gets drawn

wondering if teknics knows what the acceptable engine idle vacuum should be in in Hg... and where the engine replacement line gets drawn

Measure intake manifold vacuum with no load while idling.

Intake manifold vacuum
MT: –66.7— –56.0 kPa {–500.2— –420.1 mmHg, –19.7— –16.5 inHg}

4-speed AT [RC4A-EL]: –67.3— –53.4 kPa {–504.7— –400.6 mmHg, –19.9— –15.7 inHg}

6-speed AT [SJ6A-EL]: –66.9— –53.1 kPa {–501.8— –398.3 mmHg, –19.7— –15.6 inHg}

If not within the specification then you need to compression test and/or look for leaks in the intake system.

As far as the engine replacement line, if engine vac. is low, we compression test if compression is below 7.0x100kpa on more then one face on one rotor it's considered blown. If compression tests good we do the Baro Voltage test which sometimes will prove a good compression motor (on the compression tester) to actually still be blown.

Kevin.

kevin you should bring your FD to the bbq on sunday

ok i took the 8 friday for the msp16 recall
i'd call for an appoinment i was there 1/2 hour before ,drove the car in 25 minute after one of the mecanics took it around the parking lot and parked way back there 25 minute after that i went an i ask for my car back the guy say they working on it !!
jajajajajjajajajaj
where is back there man
he when inside ,the mecanic took it for another ride but this time on 23
he came back an i took the car with me
now yestarday an today i got an engine light on when im in the highway?????
damn damn help???

ok i took the 8 friday for the msp16 recall
i'd call for an appoinment i was there 1/2 hour before ,drove the car in 25 minute after one of the mecanics took it around the parking lot and parked way back there 25 minute after that i went an i ask for my car back the guy say they working on it !!
jajajajajjajajajaj
where is back there man
he when inside ,the mecanic took it for another ride but this time on 23
he came back an i took the car with me
now yestarday an today i got an engine light on when im in the highway?????
damn damn help???

lol.. if you still have that light tomorrow ill pull the code for you

I just got the msp16 recall done today. Brought my car in for it's first oil change and after they got the data off it, they said they needed to do the recall. Service adviser said that a higher top end has been reported afterwards.
I was out of there in less than an hour (including oil change) and this was on a Saturday.

Hey i just dropped the car off today for the TSB & msp16 at wayne. I requested you Kev to work on the car. Hopefully all go's well.

Nyc drift king Lemme know how it goes. Im thinkin of takin my car too. Kinda far for me but everyone seems to be really happy with the service provided by kevin at wayne mazda. So it'll be worth it.

Yea no problem.

Kevin at Wayne Mazda know his shit when it comes to the RX8. I had hime do work on my car and it was perfect.

Im going to Wayne tomorrow. Can I just tell them *hey, Can I have Kevin to work on my car?*

...is that normal? Are these notices going out slowly or in some pattern that puts me last? My 8 is a 2005 that I bought in Feb '06, and it only has about 11K miles on it.

I did just get a DVD and letter in the mail telling me that Mazda is extending the warranty on the "rotary core" up to 8 years and 100K miles. So they know that I own my 8 and know where I live.

-- Michael

dude you dont need a letter for the msp16 recall just make an appointment and go thats it.

And as far as asking for kevin over at wayne you can. But if he is busy doing other more technical stuff they wont make him do that.

everyone who hasnt gotten the recall you should probably go and do it soon...

yea guys klepto is right. on all his points. The MSP16 recall is easy to check for, they plug in, check for updated module programs, and blam it says automatically if its up to date or not. In all honesty the programming itself only takes 5 minutes, its getting in a bay with an IDS that takes a while.

He's also right about asking for me. Most of the time I will be able to get to it quickly and easily, but I do get backed up quick sometimes. Most serious rx8 diagnostics go to me and I also work on the rest of the mazda lineup. So if i get 2 serious rx8 diags and a mazda6 motor and a mazda3 trans I can be backed up for at least 2 days...and believe me that EXACT scenario happens almost twice a month lol.

Unfortunately due to a recent big change in our writers (almost a whole new team) they're still learning how to handle my rx8 customer's, as NYC Drift King was unfortunate enough to find out. He brought his car in and, unbeknownst to me, the car wound up sitting 2 or 3 days before I was able to get in and get dirty on it. That rarely happens but it was a compound of a couple coincidences that led to it.

But NYC Drift King: My sincere apologies for how long it took to get your car finished, I assure you it will not happen again if you bring your car by, believe me once I found out that your car was there waiting for me and yet no one told me about it I staged quite a scene and I feel everyone now knows how to handle my special customers.

Hopefully the work and the results were up to your liking, any questions or complaints you can PM me with.

kevin.

kevin dont worry omar will be ok.....he did cry a little but he bought my rims and felt better right away

yea guys klepto is right. on all his points. The MSP16 recall is easy to check for, they plug in, check for updated module programs, and blam it says automatically if its up to date or not. In all honesty the programming itself only takes 5 minutes, its getting in a bay with an IDS that takes a while.

He's also right about asking for me. Most of the time I will be able to get to it quickly and easily, but I do get backed up quick sometimes. Most serious rx8 diagnostics go to me and I also work on the rest of the mazda lineup. So if i get 2 serious rx8 diags and a mazda6 motor and a mazda3 trans I can be backed up for at least 2 days...and believe me that EXACT scenario happens almost twice a month lol.

Unfortunately due to a recent big change in our writers (almost a whole new team) they're still learning how to handle my rx8 customer's, as NYC Drift King was unfortunate enough to find out. He brought his car in and, unbeknownst to me, the car wound up sitting 2 or 3 days before I was able to get in and get dirty on it. That rarely happens but it was a compound of a couple coincidences that led to it.

But NYC Drift King: My sincere apologies for how long it took to get your car finished, I assure you it will not happen again if you bring your car by, believe me once I found out that your car was there waiting for me and yet no one told me about it I staged quite a scene and I feel everyone now knows how to handle my special customers.

Hopefully the work and the results were up to your liking, any questions or complaints you can PM me with.

kevin.









Kevin it was totally ok. I understands work gets buizy. I want to thank you for doing a amazing job on my car. You fixed things that i didn't even go in for, so thanks again.

I was confused a littel on what is the engine de-carb that is mentioned on this thread-that gets done for free. And whats the de-carb that i recieved that came out to like $121. The guy at the front desk told me, but i didnt understand.


---oh and for the peeps who pm'ed for info on when i got my car back here it go's----> At first I didnt know the difference, but now after driving the car for a week I notice a remarkable difference in 1st 2nd 3rd gear pulls to red-line. You will feel a difference in your cars reaction if you get the msp16 done. DO IT....

hey omar, havent seen you in a while.

i believe that de-carb is that seafoam thing (engine cleaner) mazda just came out with-http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118732&d=1207773309

but yeah i just got the msp16 done about 2 weeks ago and I also thought there was a difference in acceleration even without the engine cleaner being done.

I just had the MSP16 recall done and I am still having the lack of power issues that I have had for a while that the dealership doesn't seem very interested in trying to fix. I talked to the service manager yesterday and asked him why the TSB for loss of power wasn't considered (01-014/08). He told me that the MSP16 program superceded that TSB, which doesn't make sense to me. After I told him that putting around town wasn't going to demonstrate the problem, it needs to be at highway speeds, he told me that Mazda doesn't pay for extended driving time to check for problems and if it was going to take longer than 30 minutes they would have to bill me.

Does anyone know if this information corrrect? I called Mazda about the TSB superceded and they were clueless.

Well I just had mine done and I am very impressed. Most definitely more responsive and I think runs better at the lower RPM then it did. I also found she starts better.

i just picked mine up tonight, sounds better a deeper tone

BUT my idle is iffy, pulling off the lot it almost stalled at the light, but i kept it going and up in the rpm range for a little while

looks like it has settled in now,...for the most part. anyone know if this is normal?

I just had the MSP16 recall done and I am still having the lack of power issues that I have had for a while that the dealership doesn't seem very interested in trying to fix. I talked to the service manager yesterday and asked him why the TSB for loss of power wasn't considered (01-014/08). He told me that the MSP16 program superceded that TSB, which doesn't make sense to me. After I told him that putting around town wasn't going to demonstrate the problem, it needs to be at highway speeds, he told me that Mazda doesn't pay for extended driving time to check for problems and if it was going to take longer than 30 minutes they would have to bill me.

Does anyone know if this information corrrect? I called Mazda about the TSB superceded and they were clueless.

Sounds like a dealership that really doesn't want to deal with it. TSB 'superceded' is BS. Will it actually take more than 30 minutes to get a quick highway run for the dealer? It's probably worth the extra drive time it may take you to just use another dealership.

"They actually filled my washer fluid tank that I had painstakingly emptied with a turkey baster to save weight. So I will have to shop around and locate another turkey baster, in order to empty to reservoir again. And I suspect that they might have topped off my engine oil, of course using an oil that is non-compatible with what I put in there!"
---

Dude, you have issues.

Their oil should be compat with anything you put in, and you are freaking out over 6lbs of water?


PM me, when I should stop laughing.

how much is a de-carb.?

cause i just called to take mine in. after i fud out about this... ive never really taken mine to the dealer before -_-.

my dealer- 110 bones

still thinking of getting the decarb done?

I just had the MSP16 recall done and I am still having the lack of power issues that I have had for a while that the dealership doesn't seem very interested in trying to fix. I talked to the service manager yesterday and asked him why the TSB for loss of power wasn't considered (01-014/08). He told me that the MSP16 program superceded that TSB, which doesn't make sense to me. After I told him that putting around town wasn't going to demonstrate the problem, it needs to be at highway speeds, he told me that Mazda doesn't pay for extended driving time to check for problems and if it was going to take longer than 30 minutes they would have to bill me.

Does anyone know if this information corrrect? I called Mazda about the TSB superceded and they were clueless.

Thats bullshit. MSP16 doesn't supercede anything. The service manager sounds like an idiot, how can an ecu flash supercede an engine decarb? the computer isn't gonna go clean the carbon out. Te de-carb is supplemental to the MSP16, if after the flash there is still a lack of power the MSP16 document specifically states to check the ignition system, check the catalyti converter performance and if all those check out you move onto the TSB for Lack of Power aka the Engine De-Carb.

I think your dealer just isn't rotary knowledgable.

I have found out through my rx8 customers that a majority of mazda dealerships apparently have techs who are just not knowledgable of the rotary motor and the rx8's setup.

Honestly as a tech who specializes in the rx8 I can tell you, honestly, these cars are easy to work on and relatively easy to diagnose especially when compared to some of the other cars in our lineup. The PCM is amazingly powerful and much more helpful then those in the 3,5,6,tribute. Nevermind the fact that you can generally narrow down all complaints into specific areas to look at. The rx8 has very specific weaknesses that if someone would just take the time to learn they would be very helpful.

I hear it from other techs all the time, it's as if they're afraid of the car because it's not a piston motor. I don't understand why no one else can see the ONLY difference between an rx8 and another car is the core of the motor itself. The ignition, fuel, solenoids, everything else in the car could be used on a piston motor and they all work the same way as their piston counterparts. But for some reaosn everyone thinks if a rotary engine is in the bay that EVERYTHING works different.

Sorry for ranting but it's dealerships like yours that are hurting rx8 sales and hurting dealerships themselves.

My only reccommendation is to find a real dealer and to write a full letter of complaint about your dealer to Mazda North America. In fact call that service manager and tell him you're writing a letter to them, and forward him a copy of the letter. I guarantee he will beg you to fix your car when you start saying that.

Also in case anyone else is on the edge of the De-Carb process, i posted a topic in here about my personal results with the de-carb and it's ability to literally bring a "blown" motor back to spec.

kevin.

i have like 13k on my car... should i get it de carbed? i scheduled an appointment for wednesday with open road mazda on route 18 in east brunswick nj. anyone ever dealt with them before?

I too had lack of power issues with my '04 8. I took it in to get it looked at and the tried to give all kinds of reasons. I had already changed the plugs, wires & coils so that idea didn't work. All I wanted was the MSP16 upgrade and they sadi that wouldn't help. Then tried to sell me the de-carb for $200.00, I said no thank you. So they did the MSP16 and it still had power loss in high outside temp and driving hot.

I installed an AEM CAI and haven't had any trouble since.

This was all done at 130,000 miles. I now have 159,477 miles and haven't had any issues yet, knock on wood.

Just had the clutch replaced last week and it runs alot smoother and quieter now as well.

i have like 13k on my car... should i get it de carbed? i scheduled an appointment for wednesday with open road mazda on route 18 in east brunswick nj. anyone ever dealt with them before?Make an appointment with Kevin (teknics here) at Wayne Mazda and let him know you're a forum member. He seems to know rotaries well.

Make an appointment with Kevin (teknics here) at Wayne Mazda and let him know you're a forum member. He seems to know rotaries well.

ok will do. thanks

Kevin is one of the best or the best when it comes to RX8's

I too had lack of power issues with my '04 8. I took it in to get it looked at and the tried to give all kinds of reasons. I had already changed the plugs, wires & coils so that idea didn't work. All I wanted was the MSP16 upgrade and they sadi that wouldn't help. Then tried to sell me the de-carb for $200.00, I said no thank you. So they did the MSP16 and it still had power loss in high outside temp and driving hot.

I installed an AEM CAI and haven't had any trouble since.

This was all done at 130,000 miles. I now have 159,477 miles and haven't had any issues yet, knock on wood.

Just had the clutch replaced last week and it runs alot smoother and quieter now as well.

Did your OEM clutch last you 150k?

i just picked mine up tonight, sounds better a deeper tone

BUT my idle is iffy, pulling off the lot it almost stalled at the light, but i kept it going and up in the rpm range for a little while

looks like it has settled in now,...for the most part. anyone know if this is normal?

I just had mine done today and had the exact same experience. It sounds really nice, power is good now, and idle was scariliy low right after I left the dealer - but seems to be ok now. I guess it must be a normal thing right after the flash is done.

UGHHHH!
so i finally took my car in to get it serviced, and the tech reflashed the pcm with msp16. on my way home, i was @ about 5-6k rpms in 3rd gear (getting onto a highway), and suddenly just loss power, drops 1k rpm before i decided to shift. shifts into gear and ran fine again.

i have an 2004 auto rx8, already got a reman'd engine a year ago. i really dont wanna go thro the hassle of doing it again, it took these guys 2 weeks to replace the engine =(. i'm gonna take it in, let them perform the test, and hopefully i dont need a reman engine.

bummer!