my rene took her last rev 2 weeks ago. I'm in a situation that I would have no choice but to go to court.

and this is how the story goes....

I bought my 8 from this dealership http://www.universalautoonline.com/default.asp

http://www.autotrader.com/dealer/ddetail.jsp?&dealer_id=4900726&fromDsrp=false&search_type=used#vehicle_inv

I shopped on-line and found the 8 I was looking for. To make a long story short as I have a horrible track record on rambling, she had 77k when I signed the paperwork. the dealership sold me a 3 year/36k extended warranty by a company called wynns.

The adjuster from wynns stopped by and totally blew me off about the modifications on the car. I told him I bought the car the way it sits from the dealership. He wasn't having it. my 8 has a full ms body kit, ms front & rear strut tower bars, had a borla cat back, and 18" hp evo rims. I bought her with these mods on it.

So, who's the crook here? at signing I payed $1995.00 for the warranty.

I know that small claims top pay out is $2500.00. That is not gonna cut it. So should I hire a lawyer and take the dealership to court? Or should I just say the hell with it, take the L and build her myself.

like I said I could add on and on so I will end this rant with pics....any opinions will be appreciated.

some more

and more....

I mourn for your loss.

Is the warranty through universalautoonline.com or is it through Mazda?

^^^ through the dealership I bought her from. "wynns" is the warranty company

What happened? How did the failure occur? Is this the original engine in the car and who took it apart?

Paul.

that side housing has some pretty deep grooves on it. did a seal come out?

it's not the original as I noticed on the front cover. "mazda reman" tag on it.
my uncles friend of a friend pulled her out at his shop since I don't have a garage anymore. (I sold my house)

I seen rene this morning when I took the pics. I don't know the culprit as of yet, but I tell ya what, judging by the condition of the rotor it doesn't look good.

The last days she was running I was getting misfires on the cylinder 2 and lean conditions on cylinder 1........then again I had stuck intake runner codes most likely apv giving me the shaft. I don't know paul. I will get back to ya when I do.

the funny thing is I'm not bummed at all. LOL maybe it's the meds. I'm bi-polar.LOL

that side housing has some pretty deep grooves on it. did a seal come out?

you mean the center iron. I know I totally dropped 1 apex seal for sure. I'm the best photographer, try and see if you can.

Those mods won't pass Moss Magnussen.

Paul, take a CLOSE look at the ports and rotor in that first set of pix..........see what I mean?

interesting right charles? in the past I was used to losing rear rotor's on my 7's from lean conditions/ poor tuning, but this is my first time ever losing a front rotor on a stock set up.

That engine of yours is a little more than a simple re-man engine. Take a look at the ports in the photos on the Rotorocks rebuild thread and see who else can tell me what's different.

I see what your saying. it looks like shes been violated/ported.......I gotta run. I'll be back in a ny minute.

Is it possibly and automatic car? Didn't the auto have less actuators / different ports?

We need some better pics of those ports if possible. One of the statements I've made before on this forum is there's more to porting a renesis than meets the eye and those who don't know what they're doing will cause catastophic failure.

I'd like a better view before I jump to that though.

Paul.

hi

i can see what looks like grooves, and what seems to be an apex seal missing.
i am amazed at how 'clean' the engine looks inside for that mileage on a rotary.

never seen inside a taken apart rotary in that detail.

i also am amazed at how it costs so much to rebuild an engine that has so little moving parts, surely the warranty company can recondition this engine?

do the rotors cost a lot? especially the apex seals, i thought they were spring loaded and just need new springs and a seal?

if the grooving is because of the broken seal then i suppose new side housings are needed and a new engine would be better.

i think you should first go back to the dealership if not already and let them talk to the warranty people. as they sold you the car and should be using a company for warranties that will fix your engine. let them do the talking.

i hate it when you pay for a warranty that ends up being a well we won't do this or that. what the heck is the warranty for then? what has the body kit got to do with it? does it cause you to jump to warp speeds which wears out rotaries???

i am abit like yourself in that i bought my 8 from a non mazda dealership and got a years warranty which is with the peugeot company as it was a citroen dealership i got my car from, well their used section.
anyway the salesman put me onto their silver warranty level, as he said the car would be too expensive if anything went wrong. i did ask does it cover the engine gearbox etc, he said yes everything except audio equipment. my 8 also had a moto something stainless steel cat back exhaust, but no bodykit. the thing is i bought it like that, so its up to the dealership to sort this with the wynns people as you paid enough for the extended warranty on good faith.

grrrrrr warranties, i hate it when things like this happen. let me know how you get on, and i hope it gets sorted for ya.

Okay, G, you see it. That Renny has been bridgeported and the side seals lost their support. That's my diagnosis, anyway, and a huge theory of Rotarygod's(and probably Rick Engman's as well) has been proven. The irony? I was JUST telling an east coast guy about all this when his "rotary experienced" buddy was theorizing on bridge-porting a Renesis. Just another proof that a good rotary mechanic doesn't necessarily mean a good Renesis mechanic.

I don't see a bridge port, just a reflection of the main ports in the rotor housing.

Paul.

Oh yeah... it's uhh... trashed for sure :(

BTW - Paul, how have you been? Still hanging out with Holly and the rest of the (old school) Atlanta crowd? I've still got my RX... still only 60k miles :)

Dang! It's you! I remember 7 years ago when you had like 25k on that thing. Wow. Great to hear from you.

Paul.

Haha... yup I still exist. Good to see you're still @ MazMart. I need to get over there sometime.

Haha... yup I still exist. Good to see you're still @ MazMart. I need to get over there sometime.


Yep, I'm here for the long haul, God willing. Stop by some time.

Back to the thread: The ports look stock, best I can tell from the pics. There's a lot of signs of fragmentation possibly even from side seals breakage. I'd like to see some good pics of the apexes of the rotor if possible.

Paul.

I'm not sure about the policies of your warranty company but most don't want you taking the engine apart yourself (Outside of a designated shop of thgeir choice).

Paul.

I'm not sure about the policies of your warranty company but most don't want you taking the engine apart yourself (Outside of a designated shop of thgeir choice).

Paul.

WERD. thats why I had a shop do it instead. I dislike people touching my rotors though. I will take some better pics with the wifes camera on monday. I'm really curious now.

Is it possibly and automatic car? Didn't the auto have less actuators / different ports?

automatic? never! it's a 6spd. this is my first time ever seeing a rene exposed. I'm going to make a list of what's needed for the build.

hi

i can see what looks like grooves, and what seems to be an apex seal missing.
i am amazed at how 'clean' the engine looks inside for that mileage on a rotary.

never seen inside a taken apart rotary in that detail.

i also am amazed at how it costs so much to rebuild an engine that has so little moving parts, surely the warranty company can recondition this engine?

do the rotors cost a lot? especially the apex seals, i thought they were spring loaded and just need new springs and a seal?

if the grooving is because of the broken seal then i suppose new side housings are needed and a new engine would be better.

i think you should first go back to the dealership if not already and let them talk to the warranty people. as they sold you the car and should be using a company for warranties that will fix your engine. let them do the talking.

i hate it when you pay for a warranty that ends up being a well we won't do this or that. what the heck is the warranty for then? what has the body kit got to do with it? does it cause you to jump to warp speeds which wears out rotaries???

i am abit like yourself in that i bought my 8 from a non mazda dealership and got a years warranty which is with the peugeot company as it was a citroen dealership i got my car from, well their used section.
anyway the salesman put me onto their silver warranty level, as he said the car would be too expensive if anything went wrong. i did ask does it cover the engine gearbox etc, he said yes everything except audio equipment. my 8 also had a moto something stainless steel cat back exhaust, but no bodykit. the thing is i bought it like that, so its up to the dealership to sort this with the wynns people as you paid enough for the extended warranty on good faith.

grrrrrr warranties, i hate it when things like this happen. let me know how you get on, and i hope it gets sorted for ya.


I seafoamed the hell out if her before I did a compression test. I never seen seafoam do an enema like this.

to bad I had zero psi on rotor 1. rotor 2 had good compression. like I said before it's usually the opposite on my past dealings with wankel.

holy busted apex seals batman!!

Sorry to hear about your loss. I as well would like some better pictures.
From the sounds of your mods, none of that would affect engine performance so you've got a good claim against the insurance company.

Keep us posted.

You need to sue the warrenty company.

You do not have any modifications.

Cat back system is a muffler. It is legal to replace that.

How are they going to argue that a body kit and suspension damaged your engine.

Regardless of whther you bought it that way or not.

You need to sue the warrenty company.

You do not have any modifications.

Cat back system is a muffler. It is legal to replace that.

How are they going to argue that a body kit and suspension damaged your engine.

Regardless of whther you bought it that way or not.

from what I was told, I should go after the dealership for my loss. they are the ones that sold me the warranty. the warranty company goes from what the dealership tells them when the papers are signed.

that was my first thought, was to go after the warranty companies throat; which I still would like to do.

I need to get a lawyer on this I would think. like I said before, w/o a lawyer I could just take it to small claims but I would me limited to $2500.00

Dosn't make a differance who sold it to you. Its the company that hold the policy.

Do you sue the other drivers insurance agent? NO you go after the Insurance company.

The cause of your failure might just be the famous Mazda reman quality.

I'm hearing that zoo. I will make my decision on what steps to take when I talk to a lawyer on the build process.

I would like to get all the money back, heck even some of it back so I won't have long down time. If I had $3600 laying around I would just order the parts and off to work I go.

Wow, thats pretty fucked up.

The pics aint so great. so ...

look, Where is the shop in Long Island ? I dont have anything to do tomorrow (Saturday), I can bring my Professional camera and take some High Quality High Rez Pic if u want.

My first question would be, when was the reman engine installed by Mazda? Most states have a 1 year/12,000 mile warranty on automotive repairs done by a dealership using MFG parts. If it IS a reman engine and Mazda will tell you when it was done, perhaps you've got something to go on there.

In small claims court you could go after a full refund, with tax, of the purchase price of your warranty. I thought small claims court went up to $5k though.

My first question would be, when was the reman engine installed by Mazda? Most states have a 1 year/12,000 mile warranty on automotive repairs done by a dealership using MFG parts. If it IS a reman engine and Mazda will tell you when it was done, perhaps you've got something to go on there.

In small claims court you could go after a full refund, with tax, of the purchase price of your warranty. I thought small claims court went up to $5k though.

in NYC the limit is 2500 :( :banghead: :banghead:

UniversalAuto has a bad name in NYC, dunno why u got ur car there ... anyway too late now. Try to get ur money back at least, use those money to get a reman from Paul @ Mazmart

Wow, thats pretty fucked up.

The pics aint so great. so ...

look, Where is the shop in Long Island ? I dont have anything to do tomorrow (Saturday), I can bring my Professional camera and take some High Quality High Rez Pic if u want.

the shop is not open on the weekends, otherwise I would of been there snapping new shots.

I'll have to wait till monday.

A mazmart reman would get nice, obviously I don't have a core in return. my decision will be based on what kind of monies I would be entitled to.

mazmart reman/or rebuild by me.

the shop is not open on the weekends, otherwise I would of been there snapping new shots.

I'll have to wait till monday.

A mazmart reman would get nice, obviously I don't have a core in return. my decision will be based on what kind of monies I would be entitled to.

mazmart reman/or rebuild by me.

Aww, damn it :(

Well, I wonder is it ok for me to stop by on monday or something, just wanna take a look at the motor. :)

Go after the Insurance policy they are just trying to shoot you in circles because when you go to the dealership they are going to tell you to go to the insurance company. Fight it hard (try without a lawyer first) Ask to speak to managers directors whoever will listen and sooner or later they will understand they have no case of denying your warranty because of the mods on the car.

i'd sue the insurance company for a new engine. sue them for not delivering their services.

its quite simple. you have a warranty under them. the engine died. they need to pay for a new engine.

and as razz pointed out, your mods dont didnt change anything related to the combustion in the engine.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117985&d=1206743015

Am I the only one seeing the huge dent in the rotor?

no your not. I tried my best on getting a shot of that. maybe nyc would'nt mind stopping by with his cam sometime this week.

would catless pipe void warranty

no your not. I tried my best on getting a shot of that. maybe nyc would'nt mind stopping by with his cam sometime this week.

Not a problem, Tell me where is the shop, I can come by Monday morning I think

but u gotta let ppl know Im there to take pictures and look around, I dont want ppl to think that Im crazy :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED:

I dont want ppl to think that Im crazy :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED:

A little to late

would catless pipe void warranty
Since removing the cat is against federal law the dealer would have no problem voiding your emission warranty for that illegal mod. But blaming a brake problem on that would not fly.

Since removing the cat is against federal law the dealer would have no problem voiding your emission warranty for that illegal mod. But blaming a brake problem on that would not fly.

Just put it back on and save the hassle.

^^^^ you talking to me? my 8 was never in the "air" upon engine removal. the warranty adjuster wouldn't know where to look if I had a cat. they don't even know what a rotary is..... my uncles buddy told the adjuster that the engine failure was do to internal seal damage. the adjuster quickly told him that "we" don't cover "seals" under our policy. the warranty guy was then "schooled" on what an apex seal/side seals are compared to a piston motor.

he still based his decision on the rims,body kit, yada yada... what a complete idiot.

I really can't wait for my lawyer to serve him justice.

nycgps check ur pm

Got it ~~~ :)

*cough* Now Im the official photo taker ... :)

41 miles from where I live, so I might not be able to post the pics up until later in the afternoon (gotta go somewhere) :)

Got it ~~~ :)

*cough* Now Im the official photo taker ... :)

41 miles from where I live, so I might not be able to post the pics up until later in the afternoon (gotta go somewhere) :)

np. the hot potatoe has been officially been passed to you. :) as you know there are many heads looking fwd to the new pics.

I don't see a bridgeport. I see a reflection. Those ports look stock to me.

I have my cameras and stuff ready today but ...

No pictures until Wednesday :(

I'll let GAMBEAN explain why :)

^^^^ you talking to me? my 8 was never in the "air" upon engine removal. the warranty adjuster wouldn't know where to look if I had a cat. they don't even know what a rotary is..... my uncles buddy told the adjuster that the engine failure was do to internal seal damage. the adjuster quickly told him that "we" don't cover "seals" under our policy. the warranty guy was then "schooled" on what an apex seal/side seals are compared to a piston motor.

he still based his decision on the rims,body kit, yada yada... what a complete idiot.

I really can't wait for my lawyer to serve him justice.

Man, this is why I NEVER opt for extended warranties for anything. It might sound like something that would be nice to have if there's a catastrophic failure. But the reality is you have to deal with this kind of bullcrap, on TOP of the failure. Good luck. I hope your lawyer manages to put a Full-Nelson on 'em. :)

no your not. I tried my best on getting a shot of that. maybe nyc would'nt mind stopping by with his cam sometime this week.

It looks like your camera is auto-focusing on the wrong thing... You should put it in macro-mode, and change the angle so less of the background is in the pic...

Ken

It looks like your camera is auto-focusing on the wrong thing... You should put it in macro-mode, and change the angle so less of the background is in the pic...

Ken

I have a Ultra high res professional grade Camera that I can use (well its not that pro, but more than enough for this job :))

he is probably busy so I guess Im just gonna answer it.

His shop owner got some family problem that needs to take care of, so wont be open probably till wednesday :)

so there you go :)

^^^ I' m not busy now :) nyc, tomorrow brian will be in. I gotta find a home for my 8. She's need to be out of there.

have plans tomorrow?

rotorocks know how "soft" the rotors are.

Yep, I sure do. I am yet to post all the inside info regarding "on budget" motor rebuilds, which I had shoosen to keep to myself for now. :)
But I will, after the theory about the exhaust/intake port position completely proves to be true, which seems to be so far. (Ray knows what I am talking about)

Those mods won't pass Moss Magnussen.

Normally I would pin a medal on you for this statement of complete and total sense, however, this is sort of interesting. If his story is true, and I see no reason why it wouldn't be, he was sold the extended warranty with all of the junk already done to the car, which means to me that they warranted not a stock engine but a modified engine. The dealer had plenty of time to inspect the car, and theoretically the expertise to know that the car was modded when they warranted it. As the sales people empowered by the warranty company to bind the company and the customer's understanding being that the car was warranted as it was sold to him, I think that he should have an effective warranty. Moss/Magnussen wouldn't apply. However he also may be dead in the warranty because the engine has been subsequently opened up. That act could have voided the warranty. It could be worth a discussion with a local lawyer, as long as that conversation were free ;) .

I'm sorry for your trouble. I hope that you have a positive resolution :) .

the engine was opened up by a rotary guy at his shop. I didn't open it up myself, which I wanted to do, but didn't want to mess with the steps on my "case".

the engine is NOT modified at all internally. I don't see why I wouldn't go Moss/Magnussen with my situation......

^^^ I' m not busy now :) nyc, tomorrow brian will be in. I gotta find a home for my 8. She's need to be out of there.

have plans tomorrow?

I cant do it today, got something to do :(

Will the engine still be *departed* on Wednesday morning ?

the engine was opened up by a rotary guy at his shop. I didn't open it up myself, which I wanted to do, but didn't want to mess with the steps on my "case".

the engine is NOT modified at all internally. I don't see why I wouldn't go Moss/Magnussen with my situation......

Because you probably have a better argument. Normally, when a car's warranty is voided for after market modifications, you have to argue that the modifications are not a factor in the warranty claim, and that argument is statutorily created by the Moss/Magnussen act. However, in your case, it seems that they warranted the car as modified, and that is a stronger argument. You argue that they had actual knowledge of the condition of the engine as modified prior to creating the warranty and therefore warranted the car as modified. You can then argue that if they didn't have actual knowledge, you are still protected by the Moss/Magnussen act in the alternative. Again, you would need to consult a local attorney who has seen the contract to get an opinion. This is just an idea.

The problem with opening the engine up is that warranties can be voided by the engine being opened by anyone other than an agent of the warranty company. Again, this is just a thought since I have never seen the contract. Best of luck. I really hope that it works out for you!

nycgps your all good for tomorrow.

Sweet, I'll be there around 9 something tomorrow if thats ok.

Sweet, I'll be there around 9 something tomorrow if thats ok.

it's ok w/me if it's ok w/you. brian or rudy will be waiting for you. I appreciate it.

I got the the full write up today from them. now it's time to make some major decisions.....

Im back from the shop ~ Uploading pics to the server right now. Pics are big so expect some loading time.

I think I'd be rather upset that the dealership sold you an extended warranty on a vehicle that evidently didn't qualify for one from that particular warranty company (for whatever reason).

If it turns out the warranty company will not cover it because the car has been modified from stock, then it should fall back on the dealership for falsifying informationt to the warranty company to make a $.

However, I don't see anyway you'd get the dealership to do anything other than reimburse you the cost of the useless extended warranty, since that's the only liability they're on the hook for. The car is out of warranty, so you're going to most likely have to bite the bullet, if the warranty company says it never initially qualified in the first place.

Im back from the shop ~ Uploading pics to the server right now. Pics are big so expect some loading time.

:icon_no2: :icon_no2: :icon_no2: :icon_no2: :icon_no2:

Drove 47 miles 1 way to the shop, not hard to find, thx to my HDD navigation :) MAD state troopers trying to get ppl speeding , on my way back The trooper caught a Maxima ... Everybody was doing at least 75 that time so I guess its a GG for him ...

Pic is too big (over 3K x 2K resolution), so Im showing it @ 800x600, if u want the highest res u can pm me with ur email.

so here you go ...

http://xad.xanga.com/94ac721a12432182117647/b139349274.jpg

It hurts just by looking at the Rotor ...

http://xdc.xanga.com/ad7c251a37c30182117080/b139348781.jpg

Deep Deep Scratch ... Guess what happened ?

http://x78.xanga.com/f22c24e105331182114740/b139346764.jpg

Mini-Game, What is wrong with the picture above ?

http://x3f.xanga.com/854836f368549182115003/b139347000.jpg

Look at those marks ....

http://xb7.xanga.com/7e9c221a67731182115233/b139347209.jpg

The port looks Pretty clean huh? but its still a dead housing.

http://x83.xanga.com/2bbc42e415033182115572/b139347497.jpg

Tell me this housing still works ! ... Not ....

http://xb4.xanga.com/691c51e539330182117252/b139348936.jpg

Look at this

http://x51.xanga.com/61ac441a67733182116657/b139348433.jpg

GG ...

http://xe0.xanga.com/9e7c771a12532182116877/b139348605.jpg

Awww .....

:rant: :rant: :rant:

That whole Rotor, Side housing, Center housing is all gone. Why ? Look at the mini-Game above.

Holy shit it looks like Jaws took a bit out of rotor :o

Trust me it look a lot worst in person.

Oh jsut wanna add that the ports looks pretty clean in person, not sure if it has been cleaned or the engine blew while OP was doing the *daily carbon maintenance*

Anyway, I say sue the insurance !

it's ok w/me if it's ok w/you. brian or rudy will be waiting for you. I appreciate it.

I got the the full write up today from them. now it's time to make some major decisions.....

You should try to get a Reman from Mazmart. Give Paul a ring. He will work it out with ya. (If the insurnace path does not work ...)

Guys, this is going to be standard damage for BLOWN renesis engines.

IN the past, older rotaries usually die by actually breaking the apex seals which are in the tips of the rotors. Mazda used to use a seal that was divided in half along it's length, and the top piece would wear thin over time. Eventually it would either roll out of the rotor tip and break on the way out, or it would break and then the pieces would roll out. Either way, the result was the same...this happened while running, and the pieces of seal would wedge between rotor and rotorhousing, also destroying the next 2 seals behind. This takes out the rotor and rotorhousing, and you lose all compression on that half of the engine.

That does not seem to be the standard mode of failure for renesis engines...yet. Most of them are not high mileage enough to have worn the apex seals enough to let them roll out, or break while still in the apex slot. Renesis' are said to "need an engine" because they are getting weak...low compression, poor sealing, but nothing actually broken. If you catch an engine while it is still running, just weak compression, it will usually be fully rebuildable with about a grand worth of replacement seals and springs. Kind of the equivalent of a "re-ring" or "refresh" with a piston engine build.

IF you wait until a seal breaks, then the damage can be extreme and the cost can double. That's what has happened here.

However with renesis engines, the cost will be higher to make the core buildable again. In the past, a blown apex seal rotary would require the standard seals and springs, PLUS a replacement used rotor and rotor housing to make the core whole again. With the renny, there is no peripheral exhaust port for the seal fragments to fly out of when they break. So they will continue to fly around and around until they find the only means of escape from the chamber possible...the intake or exhaust ports. But they will wedge between the rotor and iron/port when doing so, which is doing to damage BOTH irons adjacent to the dead rotor. So now, we have a total of: standard seals/springs, replacement rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent irons. Of the 10 major parts in the shortblock, 4 of them are automatic junk when this occurs.

If mazda priced their parts reasonably, then this might not be an issue. But since EACH PART is damn near $500, well you can see that the damage alone cost you 2 grand, in addition to the $1000-2000 for the seal package and rebuild labor itself.

So the lesson to be learned here is that if your renny is getting up in the miles, or losing compression slowly, it is FAR better to catch it before it lets go and rebuild/refresh it, than to wait until it blows and then worry about it, because you will cost yourself a grand or 2 in replacement parts.

Here are some pics of peri-exhaust 13b's that blow apex seals. This is standard damage. The rotors are softer than they look. This is still going to be standard damage for renesis engines, but in addition both adjacent iron faces are going to be chewed up as well.

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image003.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image001.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image005.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image009.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image010.jpg

Guys, this is going to be standard damage for BLOWN renesis engines.

IN the past, older rotaries usually die by actually breaking the apex seals which are in the tips of the rotors. Mazda used to use a seal that was divided in half along it's length, and the top piece would wear thin over time. Eventually it would either roll out of the rotor tip and break on the way out, or it would break and then the pieces would roll out. Either way, the result was the same...this happened while running, and the pieces of seal would wedge between rotor and rotorhousing, also destroying the next 2 seals behind. This takes out the rotor and rotorhousing, and you lose all compression on that half of the engine.

That does not seem to be the standard mode of failure for renesis engines...yet. Most of them are not high mileage enough to have worn the apex seals enough to let them roll out, or break while still in the apex slot. Renesis' are said to "need an engine" because they are getting weak...low compression, poor sealing, but nothing actually broken. If you catch an engine while it is still running, just weak compression, it will usually be fully rebuildable with about a grand worth of replacement seals and springs. Kind of the equivalent of a "re-ring" or "refresh" with a piston engine build.

IF you wait until a seal breaks, then the damage can be extreme and the cost can double. That's what has happened here.

However with renesis engines, the cost will be higher to make the core buildable again. In the past, a blown apex seal rotary would require the standard seals and springs, PLUS a replacement used rotor and rotor housing to make the core whole again. With the renny, there is no peripheral exhaust port for the seal fragments to fly out of when they break. So they will continue to fly around and around until they find the only means of escape from the chamber possible...the intake or exhaust ports. But they will wedge between the rotor and iron/port when doing so, which is doing to damage BOTH irons adjacent to the dead rotor. So now, we have a total of: standard seals/springs, replacement rotor, rotor housing, and both adjacent irons. Of the 10 major parts in the shortblock, 4 of them are automatic junk when this occurs.

If mazda priced their parts reasonably, then this might not be an issue. But since EACH PART is damn near $500, well you can see that the damage alone cost you 2 grand, in addition to the $1000-2000 for the seal package and rebuild labor itself.

So the lesson to be learned here is that if your renny is getting up in the miles, or losing compression slowly, it is FAR better to catch it before it lets go and rebuild/refresh it, than to wait until it blows and then worry about it, because you will cost yourself a grand or 2 in replacement parts.

Here are some pics of peri-exhaust 13b's that blow apex seals. This is standard damage. The rotors are softer than they look. This is still going to be standard damage for renesis engines, but in addition both adjacent iron faces are going to be chewed up as well.

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image003.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image001.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image005.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image009.jpg

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/3rdgen/graphics/eng_int_damage/image010.jpg



wow, mr. landers broke it down like a real G. :) sigh, I miss my t2....

anyway, props to jackson (nycgps) on his skilled eyes. is that a word???

the engine is really clean as nycgps seen for himeself. as I stated before, I seafoamed it just before she went to rotary heaven.

It looks like I have no choice and bite the bullet. it seems my only options is take the dealership to small claims and sue for the warranty money. ($2000) hopefully the courts will work in my favor.

we will see....

in the meantime I will have to pay the shop $1100 for the diagnostics and removal/tear down. which I could of done my self, but I played by the warranty rules and got shafted anyway....

does anybody have a heart and donate $1 dollar to my paypal account. LMAO!

I crack myself up. I need a mazmart/rotaryresurrection reman/rebuild or parts.....

forgot that u seaform it, hmm thats why it was clean like that !

hmm so seaform works good then ... hmmm ....

PM Paul, he can hook ya something up (mention my name ! Im the unofficial poster boy for every shop on this forum lol)

We all need to learn to do rebuilds.
I am.
olddragger

Yea we should

I think I can rebuild, but I dont think I can take/put the engine out/back of/to the car.

If you can go through an engine rebuild in person with someone who knows what they are doing, and see how the parts are checked and handled, then you can probably do it yourself and have it be okay the first time. IF you think you can pick up a book, a box full of seals and do it yourself, never having seen any of it before personally, then no, it is doubtful that you would get everything right the first time. It is a steep learning curve if this is the case.

A lot of the ability to judge what is and is not good/reuseable, comes from experience of seeing many cores torn down. IF you do not have this, you are basically flying blind for the most part.

IF you can't remove the engine and tear the external pieces off it, and then reinstall the stuff onto it and reinstall it, then I would not say that you can do your own rebuild and have it be right the first time. That's my opinion only, though.

If you can go through an engine rebuild in person with someone who knows what they are doing, and see how the parts are checked and handled, then you can probably do it yourself and have it be okay the first time. IF you think you can pick up a book, a box full of seals and do it yourself, never having seen any of it before personally, then no, it is doubtful that you would get everything right the first time. It is a steep learning curve if this is the case.

A lot of the ability to judge what is and is not good/reuseable, comes from experience of seeing many cores torn down. IF you do not have this, you are basically flying blind for the most part.

IF you can't remove the engine and tear the external pieces off it, and then reinstall the stuff onto it and reinstall it, then I would not say that you can do your own rebuild and have it be right the first time. That's my opinion only, though.

I know what ya mean man,

thats why I said "I think I can"

"I think" does not mean success lol :)

Meh, I dont think theres any good Rotary shop in NYC where I can *watch and learn*

...

*sigh*

NYC stinks.

forgot that u seaform it, hmm thats why it was clean like that !

hmm so seaform works good then ... hmmm ....

PM Paul, he can hook ya something up (mention my name ! Im the unofficial poster boy for every shop on this forum lol)

pm sent to paul but no reply. pm sent also to k landers w/ a reply :) the dealership/ sales rep is trying to work it out. we will see what the rat bastard can do.....

until then I will keep this thread updated.

wish me luck.

bino-

I appreciate the opportunity to help out the 8 community finally. In fact I have an rx-8 customer car here right now for rebuild as well. I should be able to nail down the pricing structure more firmly once I do a few jobs and get a better idea of which parts I will plan to reuse and replace as standard in renesis builds. I want to see a few more cores before I make that decision.

Personally I don't think much at all is 'secret". It is more a matter of the person involved. Let's be honest with ourselves...if a man knows so much about the engine, then he has no business being here asking others how to fix it. So if you are here asking, that generally means you do not have the ability to do it yourself with confidence.

As stated above, there is a good percentage of people that COULD in theory rebuild their own engine. There is a small percentage that could do it, and have it be "right" the first time. Most people are not willing to take chances with something as sensitive as a rotary engine, so it makes financial and common sense for them to have someone else do it who is more familiar with the parts and offers a guarantee of results.

There will always be a group of DIY'ers that can do the job themselves...it is how all the shop owners and best mechanics started out. But take it from me...I see a lot of failed projects come in my door due to part time mechanics who overestimate their abilities, or underestimate the job. I get asked (and paid) to pick up the slack and put it all back together and make it work, which I gladly do.

Some people also have life circumstances that do not permit them do to their own work. Maybe they choose to live in an apartment or condo with strict regulations about working on cars? Maybe they own no tools? Maybe they have no time due to school or family? Maybe they have a job that requires a lot of time, and they have more money than time.

In all these cases it makes sense to have a specialist take on the job to ensure a good result and a timely completion of the project.

Open source is well and fine if you are a computer programmer, but if you show me a site full of open source information it won't mean jack shit to me because I am not. So I still need some help if I want a specific task done. :)

pm sent to paul but no reply. pm sent also to k landers w/ a reply :) the dealership/ sales rep is trying to work it out. we will see what the rat bastard can do.....

until then I will keep this thread updated.

wish me luck.

bino-

Sorry for the lack of reply. I saw your PM and then couldn't find it again (Inadvertently deleted). So sorry. Whatever you do, I hope it works out. If we can serve you I will give you a nycgps discount. At any rate, I only have one left and our builder is not available for several weeks to do any others due to racing projects so best of luck with your situation and whatever decision you end up making.

Paul.

^^ lol !!!

Well Bino, see how much the shop will charge you, but from what I've seen, ur front rotor is all gone. including all housing and stuff thats around it.

those parts if getting them from Mazda, Im pretty sure it will cost about the same as getting a Reman from Paul @ Mazmart.

You should take Paul's engine, its the last one :)

Edited : I just did a search on Rotor housing, the Front Rotor housing Alone, original part number is N3H110B10A, it has been superseded by N3H110B10C, hmm, meaning they updated something to the housing, anyway that part "alone" cost 583.00

Intermediate rotor housing, N3H310D00 was superseded by part number N3H310D00A, cost 452.24 ...

not to mention the rotor itself, gasket, etc.

You should take Paul's engine, its the last one :)

if you get it i was just at Mazmart yesterday- well, thursday. All of the stuff there is in great shape and the motor he has left looks great too. They have an awesome facility and im going to be getting some lapping done there for my own 13b rebuild :D Good luck- hate to see a renny so tore up!

If he is in Mazda Motor Sports program he can get all the parts for maybe what 10-20% less than retail price ? I think.

but meh, just get a Reman from Paul. save all the hassle.

If he is in Mazda Motor Sports program he can get all the parts for maybe what 10-20% less than retail price ? I think.

but meh, just get a Reman from Paul. save all the hassle.

Well this weekend I finally had the time and place to install my 2005 12k rene. All I can say is WOW! The engine started on half a key turn! I thought something went wrong. My old engine never started that quick ever even with new plugs, low mileage coils.

I remember complaining a few months back about low power fairly tough starts.

I never knew how much power, response, smoothness, the whole 9 nine yards! Anyway, I blew my last rene. Not by abuse, but not using common knowledge and should have done a compression test.

So, my happy has to get back to work.

Gambean. Congrats on getting your car going again. This has been a VERY informative thread - thanks for starting it; and for the contributions of the others.

Just on a curiosity note, what happened with the Warranty company?

Hey man, sorry I couldn't make it that day to ur place. man, the honda dealership is pissing off big time but save that for another topic.

Anyway, good to see u back on the road, Im going to pick my car up from the bodyshop today. Are you coming to the meet this saturday ?

yes indeed.

boy, being w/out warranty really feels great! :)

I'm donating my lost parts to rotaryresurrection. I can only assume since you cannot reuse any of it, he's probably going to dissect it and give us an education. :p

oh wait he already enlightened us.

next month actually the 3rd, I will have my day well night in court.

I'm going to take pics of some parts that I'm letting go sometime this week.

stay tuned. ;)

I'd hold on to those parts, just to be certain, untill all proceedings are complete.

[QUOTE=kristopher_d;2448414]I'd hold on to those parts, just to be certain, untill all proceedings are complete.

I'm a :knob: . It didn't even pass through my mind....good look kris_d

kevin if your reading this, the parts are still yours. my word is good.

after june 3rd (court date) I will have them shipped.

I kinda thought the same thing. Obviously, feel free to keep the stuff as long as necessary, just let me know when you are ready to ship and I will pay you for the shipping.

3 more days for rotary justice!

rofl !~