A stock Hyundai Tiburon, or a Lotus Esprit Turbo?

I was in an autocross yesterday, and the Tiburon finished the course in 61.038 and the Esprit took 63.786. A stock 1987 Toyota Corolla also beat the Lotus with a time of 63.164. Here are some other times:

Modified 94 MITSUBISHI 3000GT VR4 - 75.430
Stock 3rd gen RX-7 ('93) 68.582
Stock Lotus Esprit Turbo ('89) - 63.786
Stock Toyota Corolla ('87) - 63.164
Stock Hyundai Tiburon ('01)- 61.038
Stock '92 Miata - 52.231

Also, the fastest time came from the lowest HP vehicle. Them shifter carts are fast!

I know we'll get lots more comparisons of whether the RX-8 is faster or slower than some other car (350Z anyone?), and I just wanted some numbers to show that it's the driver, not the car, that's fast or slow. Looking at all the times (not just this subset) make it pretty clear that the driver is far more of a factor than the car in the "how fast" question.

That's why when kids ask the "Which car is faster?" question on any car board it drives me nuts. It's such a general statement? I know most of the time they mean in a straight line, 1/4 mile.. but there so many other variables, hwy, auto-x, lapping, how the lapping course is laid out, etc...

For example, most would argue that a Prelude SH is too large and heavy to compete at an auto-x, especially on tight auto-x courses where Miatas, Civics and other nimble cars rule. But, wait, lookie here: CLICK (http://www.soloontario.com/solo2/2002/overall.htm)
Now Marshall is a very good driver with tons of experience and he does have a Tein suspension with R-compound tires but the other driver/cars competeing are not stock either.

So this is why when young and older kids :p get into "my car is faster then yours" arguments on the net, quoting mag 0-60 and 1/4 mile times I just smile and nod.. Hey we do it here too.. I hope RX-8 does 0-60 in x time.. 1/4 in x time.. which is ok but we must not lose sight of the fact that the RX-8 might be slower in the straight then say a 350Z but it might be a lot more fun to drive overall with better handling and shift/tranny characteristics. I'll gladly give up the .2 in the 1/4 for superior handling characteristics that will allow me to catch up and beat similarly skilled drivers in their 350z's.. or other comparable cars.

In an autocross, especially on a course that is new to most drivers, the driver makes the biggest difference.

Did you see who had what tires?

---jps

I noticed some, but not all of the tires. I don't remember any of the cars that I listed.
I also do the numbers thing. I think most people on this board understand that the magazine numbers can only give you a very small part of the picture. The more important part you get from driving the cars.

Exactly.. this is why people rave after driving a Miata even though by todays standards it's grossly underpowered. One day I gotta go for a spin in one to see what the fuss is all about. :D

Yes Quick_Lude, you need to dance with The Lady sometime. Despite the undeserved "chick/UK wannabe-car" stigma and weight increase, the Miata still holds it's own EASILY and makes everyone behind the wheel a better driver/racer. It's all about the rhythmic dance, throttle response, balance and clipping apexes, not racing brutally corner to corner thru superior 'spastic' acceleration and nose-dive braking. It's truly confidence-inspiring and, should I say, almost orgasmic. ;)

Heh, you'd be amazed at some of the "cars" I've beat in my stock <95hp (at the wheels) MR2, both at the autocross and on the track. Vipers, Vettes, a Ferrari, Cobras, race-trim Mustangs, FD RX7s, Turbo MR2s, highly modified Eclipse Turbos, WRXs, NSX, and so on.

It's a bit embarassing, for both myself and the guy I'm passing, when they wave me by on a straight, back off, and it *still* takes me the entire straightaway to get ahead. :) I have what you call a "momentum car".

Originally posted by Quick_lude
Exactly.. this is why people rave after driving a Miata even though by todays standards it's grossly underpowered. One day I gotta go for a spin in one to see what the fuss is all about. :D

If you're ever in Colorado Springs, stop by! You can borrow mine for a few hours.
When looking to buy a new car, I test drove about a dozen different models of cars including the RSX, Integra GS-R, S2000, MR2 Spyder, etc. and all had their strong points. None gave me the stupid grin every time I drove it that the Miata did. That's why I got one, and that's how I plan on choosing cars from now on.

I see no reason to have any cars that don't give me a stupid grin every time I drive them.