Hi Everyone,

Picked up my new base package 6spd RX8 yesterday (yeah, S-Plan!!). Read the manual cover to cover last night and I wish the base package did NOT include the stupid gimmick tire pressure warning setup. According to the manual it does not work for sudden loss of pressure...the only purpose I would think it could serve since the manual also says the system does NOT alleviate the need for you to manually check your tire pressure anyway! And then I see the mile long strip of balance weights on each factory rim needed to balance the wheels because of this purposely inserted rock, er., "sensor," and I want these things gone! Going to install lighter wider rims anyway.

I also don't want the dash light on. I read the older thread about cutting the wire to the dash light, etc., but that seems an inartful way of doing it. Perhaps an ECu reflash that includes a delete of that function? It also seems that making a small battery operated transmitter that sits in the glove box and mimics the signal from the sensors would be easy to make. Or perhaps once the sensors are removed they could be modified for this purpose and then left in the glove box? Other ideas?

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing (http://www.good-win-racing.com)

Perhaps a wiring diagram for the Canadian RX-8 might be useful in determining how to disable the system - we don't get the TPMS system at all!

(Sure makes buying winter wheels easy, no worries about transmitters or idiot lights!) BTW, Brian, I ended up going with a 17x7" Konig Holes wheel, ~17 lbs. The OEM 18" wheel with RE-040, no TPMS transmitter ;) , weighed 41.2 lbs, the 17" Konig wheel with Toyo Garit HT 215/55-17 tire weighed 35.2 lbs! There is a LOT of weight to be saved over the OEM wheels. Wait, if you got the base, do you have the sport suspension, big brakes, and 18" wheels? If you have the 16" wheels and smaller brakes, then you will have a LOT more choices in wheels/tires.

Regards,
Gordon

I suspect Brian here would go with a big brake system if he had the smaller brakes. :) Actually, in the US the manual comes with all those goodies.

Brian, definitely keep us updated on your mods. I haven't bought an 8 yet, and you've already convinced me to ditch the tire sensors, so who knows what else you'll convince me of. What kind of rims are you getting? I was thinking that SSR Comps in 17x8.5 would be the way to go for me, if they fit over the larger brakes. It would have a lot more tire options, like Kumho Ecsta MXs or Yokohama AVS Sports.

Also, you must go to the solo2 events at the Q. If so, you mind if I ogle your 8 if you take it there? :)

Originally posted by Brian Goodwin
Perhaps an ECu reflash that includes a delete of that function?Bear in mind that any non-MNAO ECU reflash will theoretically bump you out of stock.

Talk to the service guy at your dealer, the ECU has programable settings for the tire pressure range, and odds are, one of the standard boxes is an empty box with no limits. This would be the most likely way mazda would implement the non-tpms version cars. That way the ECU ROM is still the same, just the smaller configurations settings are different. The dealer can adjust these settings through the CAN interface from their computer.

On a side note, I remember seeing somewhere that the TPMS reciever module is remote to the ECU, and since the ECU will work with different pressure ranges, odds are the remote TPMS reciever sends tire pressure signals to the ECU. My ultimate goal would not be to remove the TPMS system, but to intercept these signals (probably just a serial connection, since the SuperH micorcomputer in the ECU has a butt ton of serial connections integrated into it) and design a display that would actually show the individual tire's pressures. Just this morning coming home from work, my light came on (it was damn cold this morning) so i figured that is what it was, but i still did not know for sure if a tire was just a little low, or damn near flat. An actualy indication of the pressures here would be a serious boon, and would take little extra hardware mods.

Hi Guys,

Thanks Gordon for the data on the wheels, will indeed be looking to save some weight on the wheels off those factory numbers. Yep, got the big brakes, the base package 6spd here includes all the go-fast goodies like limited slip, 18 inch wheels, and anti-lock brakes. In fact, I think the Sport package is a misnomer here, should be "convenience package" or something because all it adds are goodies I don't need like fog lights, Xenon headlights, DSC, etc.

rabinabo, those SSRs were indeed my first thought since I have four sets for my Miatas that I have been very happy with over the years and we are a tirerack dealer so that makes it easy. But, I analyze everything to death first so I going to do a little research into the options...since the SEMA show is this week the timing is great....going to do some shopping!

eccles, yep, flashing the ECU will kill stock hopes but I would likely race this in another class anyway, we have a local class called IS2 that would permit me to do all the mods that I want to do anyway for street and track purposes so that is where I will likely end up anyway.

Thanks for the feedback guys,

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing (http://www.good-win-racing.com)

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy
Talk to the service guy at your dealer, the ECU has programable settings for the tire pressure range, and odds are, one of the standard boxes is an empty box with no limits. This would be the most likely way mazda would implement the non-tpms version cars. That way the ECU ROM is still the same, just the smaller configurations settings are different. The dealer can adjust these settings through the CAN interface from their computer.

On a side note, I remember seeing somewhere that the TPMS reciever module is remote to the ECU, and since the ECU will work with different pressure ranges, odds are the remote TPMS reciever sends tire pressure signals to the ECU. My ultimate goal would not be to remove the TPMS system, but to intercept these signals (probably just a serial connection, since the SuperH micorcomputer in the ECU has a butt ton of serial connections integrated into it) and design a display that would actually show the individual tire's pressures. Just this morning coming home from work, my light came on (it was damn cold this morning) so i figured that is what it was, but i still did not know for sure if a tire was just a little low, or damn near flat. An actualy indication of the pressures here would be a serious boon, and would take little extra hardware mods.

Very logical, I will ask friends at Mazda and see if I can find out about simply turning the TPMS off....hope there is a way. I also like the idea of making a display that would show the actual pressures (assuming the data from the sensors allows for such). Then at least the system would be useful. Could you imagine if it could be changed so that on a track day you could watch the temp rise in the tires individually? That would be a powerful diagnostic tool if it could be done.

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing (http://www.good-win-racing.com)

Brian,

Hi. If you have not already seen this,
check out http://www.finishlineperformance.com/rx8/docs/02-002-03.html
for info on how the TPMS (Tire Pressure
Monitoring System) works in your qwest
to disable it (from thread
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?threadid=13045).

Here's an idea - take the pressure sensors (TPMS wheel units) off your stock wheels, mount all four into some sort of container that can be pressurized (a small wheel/tire assembly comes to mind, but I'm sure some else will have a better solution), set the container's pressure to 32psi (or 26psi < pressure < 49psi) , then put the pressurized assembly into your trunk.

Now with your aftermarket wheels/tires installed on your car, follow the "Replacing a TPMS Wheel Unit"
instructions in the service bulletin.

Hopefully, the TPMS control module picks
up the signals from the four battery operated TPMS wheel units and there is
no TPMS warning light. If this works, the
best part is no warranty voiding mods had to be done.

Okay, you people with the motivation and resources to easily try above, please
post your results :).

Thanks,
rx8cited

Problem with that, rx8cited, is the transmitters are turned on by centrifugal switches in them (the manual talks about 12 mph or something like that). So just mounting them to a pressurized unit will not work. Best bet i can think of is to just remove the light bulb from the TPMS light on the dash. This should be fairly easy, as I'm sure the bulbs have to be replacable.

CraziFuzzy,

Hi. Thanks for pointing out this major detail I overlooked: the transmitters are turned on by centrifugal switches . Back to the drawing board :( .

Has anyone tried installing the pressure sensor wheel units to aftermarket wheels?

Thanks,
rx8cited

Originally posted by rx8cited
Has anyone tried installing the pressure sensor wheel units to aftermarket wheels?Yes, they can be mounted to some if not most aftermarket wheels. But Brian is trying to get rid of them when he purchases his competition wheels, because it doesn't make sense to bolt a heavy sensor to one side of a lightweight wheel and then add another bunch of weight to the opposite side to balance it out again.

Originally posted by eccles
Yes, they can be mounted to some if not most aftermarket wheels. But Brian is trying to get rid of them when he purchases his competition wheels, because it doesn't make sense to bolt a heavy sensor to one side of a lightweight wheel and then add another bunch of weight to the opposite side to balance it out again.


YEP!

Thanks all for the ideas folks,

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing

Originally posted by eccles
Yes, they can be mounted to some if not most aftermarket wheels.

Hi. Can anyone tell me which aftermarket wheels the wheel units have successfully worked with please?

I understand now that Brian wants to get rid of the wheel units. I'd like to know which wheels they work with if I want to keep them .

Thanks,
rx8cited

tirerack said that the SSR GT3s will accept the OEM sensors. too bad the 18 and 19 inch sizes are 24 and 27 lbs each, respectively. too much weight, and that is before the sensors and balances.

santino

the Tire sensors are remote devices. they send a radio frequency signal to the CAN (Control Area Network) which contains computer controlled systems such as the TCS, Tire pressure monitor computer, etc. I believe they are wiring in series so disconnecting one system will alert the CAN. I suggest either taking the gauge cluster off and disabling the LED for the tire pressure sensor or simply trying to find a rim that will fit the tire pressure sensors.

just an FYI, my dealership here in Boise, Idaho will not do anything to get rid of the STUPID ASS TPS system. In fact he said there is nothing he can do as far as reprograming cpu or any of that. what a crock of SHIT. this system is obviously just for the average idot that doesnt check tire pressure regularly, In my Opinion you should not own a sports car without being able to conform to the basic responsabilities of owning any car.

yes the TPS sucks, it goes off at random intervals and worries me. its annoying and not really all that great to begin with. It only warns you if its way too high pressure or way to low, and also it has a delay in doing so, so most likely when I get rims, its going out!

Yeah, I'm not too happy with it either. When the weather changed here, when it was cold in the mornings, the TPMS would start beeping and the light would illuminate. I wish there were a way to make the Rev Buzzer use the same buzzer the TPMS uses - it sounds much louder. And that would suck if you disabled the light on the TPMS, it would still beep when activated.

this is good

photo 2

Originally posted by Brian Goodwin
.

I also don't want the dash light on. I read the older thread about cutting the wire to the dash light, etc., but that seems an inartful way of doing it. Perhaps an ECu reflash that includes a delete of that function? It also seems that making a small battery operated transmitter that sits in the glove box and mimics the signal from the sensors would be easy to make. Or perhaps once the sensors are removed they could be modified for this purpose and then left in the glove box? Other ideas?

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing (http://www.good-win-racing.com)

Why do you consider it "inartful" to cut a wire to a warning light you never want lighted? to me that seems like the most elegant solution possible.

You are certainly right about me not wanting that light. But let's imagine that two years down the line a new hotter MazdaSpeed RX8 hits these shores and we buy one of those and sell the current RX8....at that point I will obviously not want to be explaining to a potential buyer that we cut wires in the dash. Moreover, generally speaking I don't like to cut OEM wiring, much prefer to turn things off or unplug...just in case we want that connection later.

Brian Goodwin
Good-Win Racing (http://www-good-win-racing.com)

Just finished reading this thread. Quite interesting. Yes the TPMS is more of a pain then help.
Looking into purchasing dedicated snows for the 8 (not yet purchased, but soon). Wanting to slap the snows on the OE wheels (18") along with the sensors. However, come spring planning on using the OE tires with after market wheels along with an additional set of Mazda TPMS sensors. This should solve the problem of the warning light/audio as well as utilizing the TPMS system as designed.
Bad thing is that I would have to dish out the $ for the second set of sensors (as well as the added unsprung wheel/tire weight). Anyone happen to know how much for the sensors? Just my $.02.
Al

I'm getting conflicting information here. This thread indicates that there is an audible "beep" in addition to the light on the dash. Another thread, VividRacing.com said that the light on the dash flashes - there was no mention of a "beep".

I wonder if there is a difference if the sensor receives a signal of an under or over inflated tire, as opposed to no signal at all (no sensor in the tire).

I was planning on NOT using sensors in my winter tires/wheels. But, if there is a constant "beeping", that could get annoying. I could handle a random light flashing off an on.

Any thoughts?

My light does not flash, and if the pressure is low when the car starts up, there is no beep. It only beeps if you are already driving, and then the pressure goes low, and it is not a constant beep. My guess is that if you don't have the sensors at all, than the light will be on, but no beep (other than the normal start-up test of the beeper)

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy
My guess is that if you don't have the sensors at all, than the light will be on, but no beep (other than the normal start-up test of the beeper) That is correct - the TPMS only beeps once when it first detects a problem, it does not keep nagging at you.

I've had mine go off once after work on a cold day. It beeped and the light came on. It only beeped once, and the light was steady, not flashing. It's really not all that annoying.

Hello All,

I have my stock tires/wheels on and have not experienced the TPMS buzzer or light (pressure has been maintained around 32 psi). But I've been curious about what happens if wheels with no sensors were installed. Based on what you folks have said and what the manual says, I hope the following clarifies some questions.

Selectively quoting from my RX-8 owner's manual TPMS section:
"Tire Pressure Monitoring
System":

"TPMS does not alleviate your need to
check the pressure and condition of all
four tires before you drive each day."

"To avoid false readings, the system
samples for a little while before
indicating a problem. As a result it
will not instantaneously register a
rapid tire deflation or blow out."

"Tire Pressure Monitoring System
Warning Light":

"This warning light illuminates for a few
seconds when the ignition switch is turned to the ON position."

"Thereafter, the warning light illuminates
when tire pressure is too low or too high
in one or more tires, and flashes when
there is a system malfunction."

"Warning light illuminates/Warning
beep sounds":

"When the warning light illuminates, and
the warning beep sounds (about 3
seconds), tire pressure is too low or too
high in one or more tires."

-- end quoting from manual --

People without the wheel units (sensors) have posted that the TPMS warning light flashes - probably because that's considered to be a TPMS malfunction.

People with the wheel units have posted that (when their tire pressure is not between 27 and 48 psi I presume) the TPMS buzzer sounds briefly (does not stay on) and the warning light comes on and stay on (does not flash continuously) - again - consistent with what the manual says.

I guess if ones TPMS light came on and buzzer sounded while driving, then went off after a while - tire pressure may have been below the 27psi threshold and increased above the threshold as driving warmed up the tire ?

So, if you plan on installing wheels with no sensors, then based on what others have posted and what the manual says the TPMS warning light will ** continuously flash ** and TPMS buzzer will not sound.

I'm not sure I could deal with the **constant flashing**, especially at night.

For me it's going to be one of the following:
buy wheels with sensors, tape over the light, tear into the dashboard to pull the TPMS light bulb or disconnect something (I think not), or ????????

Hope this clarifies some TPMS light/buzzer questions :),

rx8cited

PS: Sorry this got so long.

Please note: There are other reasons why the TPMS light will flash - see
"System Error Activation" in the TPMS section of the "Mazda RX- 8 Owner's Manual".

Originally posted by rx8cited
For me it's going to be one of the following:
buy wheels with sensors, tape over the light, tear into the dashboard to pull the TPMS light bulb or disconnect something (I think not), or ????????
I considered buying the sensors for the winter tires -- until they told me the price! It came out to about $100 EACH for the "custom" sensors needed for the RX-8. This was at TireRack, BTW.

I don't think so!

jonalan, is that the pirce ($100) for each wheel? Meaning $400 for the entire package? Also, is that TPMS from Mazda or from the Tire Rack? And if from the Tire Rack, will it work with Mazda's unit (I doubt it)? Although I could be wrong.

Has anyone looked into purchasing sensors (4) from Mazda? {Maybe I will and post}.

What do you guys think, one set of winter wheels/tires with Mazda sensors, and one set of summer wheels/tires with another set of Mazda sensors?

Al

Originally posted by Jhouse
what a crock of SHIT. this system is obviously just for the average idot that doesnt check tire pressure regularly, In my Opinion you should not own a sports car without being able to conform to the basic responsabilities of owning any car.


No offense, but if your having that much problem with the TPMS then your one of the average idots that doesn't check tire pressure regularly.

Mine went off twice - both time the tires were down 4 psi from a bad overnight cold snap.

the Tire Pressure Monitoring System is a FLAWED system... it needs to be eliminated or fixed.

Just catching up on this thread and I got to thinking (uh oh). Since the TPMS uses RF signals from the tire sensors, is it conceivable that someone could purchase one of these sensors, then possibly reverse-engineer it so that it sends whatever signal you want to the CCU? Just carefully take the thing apart and hardware the pressure and speed sensors so it's sending the "ok" signal constantly.

I wish I knew how to tell what signal it was sending to the CCU, then possibly you could put something together with Radio Shack parts and throw it in your trunk to take care of that pesky light/beep.

Originally posted by Gudlyf
I wish I knew how to tell what signal it was sending to the CCU, then possibly you could put something together with Radio Shack parts and throw it in your trunk to take care of that pesky light/beep.

The problem with this is the sensor needs to be moving in order to turn on. It has a centrifugal switch in it.

Originally posted by mamccubbin
The problem with this is the sensor needs to be moving in order to turn on. It has a centrifugal switch in it.

Er, right, I know that. What I'm saying is what if someone was able to take it apart and solder the switch in place so it didn't need the cetrifugal motion to turn it on? Although it's possible that the centrifugal force is what powers it and not a battery.

I'm just wondering how possible it would be to get the correct frequency that these transmit at, then build a device that sends that signal to the CCU in the dash.

Originally posted by silvermk2supra
jonalan, is that the pirce ($100) for each wheel? Meaning $400 for the entire package? Also, is that TPMS from Mazda or from the Tire Rack? And if from the Tire Rack, will it work with Mazda's unit (I doubt it)? Although I could be wrong.

Has anyone looked into purchasing sensors (4) from Mazda? {Maybe I will and post}.

What do you guys think, one set of winter wheels/tires with Mazda sensors, and one set of summer wheels/tires with another set of Mazda sensors?

Al
$100 per wheel! $400 for the package!!! This was quoted from TireRack and it was a custom sensor specifically designed for the RX-8.

This is my first post. I've monitored the Forum for a while. It's about time I join in. I thought the experience I had concerning the TPMS might be of interest.

I live in Western NY state where winters can certainly be severe at times. My RX-8 will be driven through the winter. I bought a winter tire package from The Tire Rack and had them shipped to my dealer. I left the car there for a day to have the tires installed.

Seems the master technician questioned whether they should put wheels on without the sensors. This is the first 8 they've put winter tires on. So they called Mazda, the Tech Line I believe they said, who told the dealer that it's not recommended to run wheels without the sensors because the sensors affect not only the TPMS but also ABS and DSC (!). This was a surprise to me. I've never heard, read, nor reasoned anything of the sort.

The service manager called to to tell me the bad news. Well, it didn't sound right to me. BS alarm. After talking about it a bit, I told him to install the winter tires and if a serious problem developed, I'd come back in for whatever resolution possible. They cited Tech Assistance Reference 322819. I didn't see that message or document, but on my bill is written that Mazda does not endorse installing wheels without the sensors because of the wider affect.

I called Tire Rack in case they might have heard of this. The sales rep I dealt with said that all the information they have indicates that what Mazda told my dealer is incorrect.

I fully expected to have only the flashing warning light, and that's all I've seen so far (not all the time, either).

This does not foster confidence in my dealer or Mazda technical support to the dealers.

Is Mazda trying to shake owners down for sensor sales?

Is anyone familiar with Tech Assistance References?

Has anyone heard about the TPS affecting more than the TPMS? I may be wrong in thinking that it's not true.

Has anyone else heard such a message from their dealer or Mazda ?

This is my first post. I've monitored the Forum for a while. It's about time I join in. I thought the experience I had concerning the TPMS might be of interest.

I live in Western NY state where winters can certainly be severe at times. My RX-8 will be driven through the winter. I bought a winter tire package from The Tire Rack and had them shipped to my dealer. I left the car there for a day to have the tires installed.

Seems the master technician questioned whether they should put wheels on without the sensors. This is the first 8 they've put winter tires on. So they called Mazda, the Tech Line I believe they said, who told the dealer that it's not recommended to run wheels without the sensors because the sensors affect not only the TPMS but also ABS and DSC (!). This was a surprise to me. I've never heard, read, nor reasoned anything of the sort.

The service manager called to to tell me the bad news. Well, it didn't sound right to me. BS alarm. After talking about it a bit, I told him to install the winter tires and if a serious problem developed, I'd come back in for whatever resolution possible. They cited Tech Assistance Reference 322819. I didn't see that message or document, but on my bill is written that Mazda does not endorse installing wheels without the sensors because of the wider affect.

I called Tire Rack in case they might have heard of this. The sales rep I dealt with said that all the information they have indicates that what Mazda told my dealer is incorrect.

I fully expected to have only the flashing warning light, and that's all I've seen so far (not all the time, either).

This does not foster confidence in my dealer or Mazda technical support to the dealers.

Is Mazda trying to shake owners down for sensor sales?

Is anyone familiar with Tech Assistance References?

Has anyone heard about the TPS affecting more than the TPMS? I may be wrong in thinking that it's not true.

Has anyone else heard such a message from their dealer or Mazda ?