I will be installing these soon .I will be using the MSD LS1 coils. You get 8 for $650 or their about $90 each.
I'll update this thread once installed.. Thank you RPM for his input on this .and to darkbrew for his help at
pointing me in the right direction. All is a go! If anyone one has suggestions pertaining to this subject please
post your experiences or proffessional advice..Its seems as though it will be easy from what I've gathered so
far.


Sorry Above Project Has Changed under advice from MSD Tech and is as follows (2) MSD pn# 6302 and (4) MSD pn# 8207


Please read thread " MSD Ignition Project"

Post pics of the install. Sounds interesting

Post pics of the install. Sounds interesting


Thanks I will. Looks like I'll have 4 extra coils when done if it's a 100%
success , I will part with them for half of what I paid for set of 8 . $325 -$350 depending on shipping costs..


Above Set up is void! Please read on to see changes!

Note : I've picked MSD because when talking to Tracy at Rotary Avionics he said that OE LS1 coils have a delay/duration built in.. It makes a bit of sense because I later read the following Quote in product description..

Here

The complex electronic controls of the original coils presented the aftermarket with a challenge as the drivers that control the firing of the coils are built into the OE models. MSD engineers were able to design an advanced circuit that will operate with the factory electronics..



The only thing that will require modification is location and Plug in interface (wireing) as one is 3 wire other is
4 wire.

sounds interesting, do let us know what happens.

the OEM coils have a delay built in? that's an interesting "feature"... are you quite sure the MSD coils do not have this same delay? from the quote above it sounds like they will behave the same way and mess up your timing

I think MM was going to look into this, might want to check with him also

if you haven't bought it yet I have everything including the wiring diagrams and will sell it for less, except using the better LS2 coils

I just never followed through on pursuing it, never seemed to have the time

edit: these are the GM OE coils, brackets, wiring harness, and MSD plug wires. I'd recommend doing it this way first as any mistakes will be less expensive.

Thanks.. Quote from MSD /LS1 coil packs

The complex electronic controls of the original coils presented the aftermarket with a challenge as the drivers that control the firing of the coils are built into the OE models. MSD engineers were able to design an advanced circuit that will operate with the factory electronics..

They are different ..But this is experimental.. I'll be the first to try (fail or succeed). But I really believe it will work..So do others.Wish me luck!

a) that's just a general quote from MSD regarding the GM product

b) you need LS2 coils, not LS1

see my previous post, $125 shipped for 8 coils and accessories as noted

my intention was to first prove the concept, then get the MSD coils

if you haven't bought it yet I have everything including the wiring diagrams and will sell it for less, except using the better LS2 coils

I just never followed through on pursuing it, never seemed to have the time

edit: these are the GM OE coils, brackets, wiring harness, and MSD plug wires. I'd recommend doing it this way first as any mistakes will be less expensive.


I'll get back to you on that. There is a reason LS1 coils are more ideal .Tracy at Rotary Avionics mentioned something about that when I asked him about it.. I just cant remember what the details are.. If I find it I'll let you know. If you discover anything let me know. Thanks

ok, you can both learn the hard way then ...

a) that's just a general quote from MSD regarding the GM product

b) you need LS2 coils, not LS1

see my previous post, $125 shipped for 8 coils and accessories as noted

my intention was to first prove the concept, then get the MSD coils


Thanks I'll get back to you on that..Sounds like a great deal! .. I like MSD's solution to built in driver. But I will consider this.. Why are the LS2 coils better? If you have answere readily available please post it.Otherwise I'll google it up and post back.. cheers

Yes, Follow Up On Here, Sounds Interesting.

Yes very interesting. Good Luck.

Nice, would love to hear how it turns out.

Teamrx8 .. I 'm considering your offer . i'm just looking into it.. I'll let you know.Thanks

they all have a built-in driver for this style coil, including the OE coils ...

what I have is all new, unused parts

Cool. Sound's like a smokin deal.. I;m still waiting on Ron from RMJ Racing (Alberta) to get back to me on wiring and compatability.
When I mentioned the LS2 coils he said that MSD LS1 coils would be better suited ,but said he would talk to some friends/sources
about it.. Ron @ RMJ Racing is a veteran drag race engine builder in Lethbridge Alberta . He owns 2 6 second cars with 1000+ HP..
Great guy to deal with.. His expeirence is mainly with American V8's , but he has been all over and has alot of freinds/rescources..

and teamrx8 has the highest N/A rx8 we've seen a dyno from...

just so we're clear, these were never used by me

they are new OE take-off parts that I intended to try and make work on an RX-8, but never found the time to pursue

Ok this may change everything..Just got some advice from tech at MSD .. This guy is a rotary nut and said he had a excellent solution that will work guaranteed. Set-up is as follows:


2 MSD part # 6302 /INFO:LINKhttp://www.msdignition.com/2007/light.html


4 MSD part # 8207 /INFO:LINK
http://www.msdignition.com/coil_blaster_6_8207.htm

I'm sorry,but this looks like the way I'm gonna go now..This info provided by MSD tech was much needed
and more reliable than frankensteining it..and hoping for the best.. Sorry if this has let any members down..

I will post results / pics when completed. Expect to hear
back from me in couple weeks with results..

Oh and just to note .. This has been done and works great as feedback to MSD tech was very positive.

:lol: good luck

by going that route you'll be putting an entirely different aftermarket ignition system on it before you're done

edit: BTW, sold my parts to someone else

Coils are $40.00 each and Adapters $70 each..New ignition system for under $350 dont sound bad..
MSD tech assured me it will work very well ..
Still I've got Ron from RMJ Racing looking into it..
Its gonna need to make sense to him before giving me the OK..

MSD tech assured me it will work very well ..

I'd be interested to know which MSD tech you spoke with.
I have a bridge to sell him.

:lol: good luck

by going that route you'll be putting an entirely different aftermarket ignition system on it before you're done

edit: BTW, sold my parts to someone else

Thanks for edit .. I felt that The MSD Tech (Dre) was kind enouph to help..I was referred from one tech to another , then that tech said he would get one of their more experienced on rotary's guy's "Dre "to talk to me. It has been done with success and he reassurred me it will work.

Thanks again

I say go for it (we all want to know the results ;) )... Worst that can happen is you flood your engine or fry your PCM.

well maybe I'll learn something new then because I'm looking at the prescribed setup page and I don't see how it will interface properly on an RX-8 Renesis:

http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/6304.pdf

well maybe I'll learn something new then because I'm looking at the prescribed setup page and I don't see how it will interface properly on an RX-8 Renesis:

http://www.msdignition.com/pdf/6304.pdf



Ignition controller isnt needed . We already have that.. .
Tell you what .I'll see if I can get a wiring diagram..
I'll get back .

Actually the part # 6302 dual coil ignitor... Ahh I'm even beginning to see how this is gonna work:)

http://www.msdignition.com/2007/light.html

This is why I need two dual coil ignitors..Leading and trailing.

Worst that can happen is you flood your engine or fry your PCM.

Well, no.
Anyone that would bother to read my threads on the subject (having experimented with the RX-8s ignition system pretty extensively for the last 3 years), would see that the OE coils have a trigger cycle and dwell that is unique.
Even if you get the coils to fire (which is the easy part) the ignition timing will be off and will get more and less off as the RPMs change (the hard part).
The end result is sudden, unpredictable detonation.

Well, no.
Anyone that would bother to read my threads on the subject (having experimented with the RX-8s ignition system pretty extensively for the last 3 years), would see that the OE coils have a trigger cycle and dwell that is unique.
Even if you get the coils to fire (which is the easy part) the ignition timing will be off and will get more and less off as the RPMs change (the hard part).
The end result is sudden, unpredictable detonation.

Sorry MazdaManiac but its gone from the LS1(mk ultra project) to the MSD (dual coil ignitors) and (Blaster coil) project.. for reasons mentioned in this thread. Check it out..What you say above is correct (I searched) if you have any Idea why or how this new arrangement would have negative effects . Please get back to us..It would benefit other members as well. I also edit alot because I broke my hand the last time we chatted .lol

Well, no.
Anyone that would bother to read my threads on the subject (having experimented with the RX-8s ignition system pretty extensively for the last 3 years), would see that the OE coils have a trigger cycle and dwell that is unique.
Even if you get the coils to fire (which is the easy part) the ignition timing will be off and will get more and less off as the RPMs change (the hard part).
The end result is sudden, unpredictable detonation.

I stand corrected. I was thinking they would most likely not work... As a hacker I tend to jump the steps from "partially works" to "fully works" :spank:

I confess I have yet to read much on the subject.... Will get on that :eyetwitch

Sorry MazdaManiac but its gone from the LS1(mk ultra project) to the MSD (dual coil ignitors) and (Blaster coil) project.. for reasons mentioned in this thread. Check it out..What you say above is correct (I searched) if you have any Idea why or how this new arrangement would have negative effects . Please get back to us..It would benefit other members as well. I also edit alot because I broke my hand the last time we chatted .lol

Well, what I would do is hook up whatever coil/ignitor combination you are planning to experiment with in tandem with the stock coil and run it to a plug that is just grounded on the block.
Then, run two inductive pickups to a scope and free-rev the engine through the full RPM band and compare the plots. If they are in sync, you are golden.
Having done that with a few different possibilities, I found that most third-party coils produced plots that went in and out of sync.

Sorry MazdaManiac but its gone from the LS1(mk ultra project) to the MSD (dual coil ignitors) and (Blaster coil) project.. for reasons mentioned in this thread. Check it out..What you say above is correct (I searched) if you have any Idea why or how this new arrangement would have negative effects . Please get back to us..It would benefit other members as well. I also edit alot because I broke my hand the last time we chatted .lol

well.

then time to start a new thread with the right heading...

as the topic here failed... btw, you failed....



beers :beer:

well.

then time to start a new thread with the right heading...

as the topic here failed... btw, you failed....



beers :beer:

I will .But to be be fair I'll keep it open for anyone already interested /or subscribing .

For any members who wish to follow this up
NEW THREAD IS " MSD Ignition Project " in aftermarket performance section.

Well, what I would do is hook up whatever coil/ignitor combination you are planning to experiment with in tandem with the stock coil and run it to a plug that is just grounded on the block.
Then, run two inductive pickups to a scope and free-rev the engine through the full RPM band and compare the plots. If they are in sync, you are golden.
Having done that with a few different possibilities, I found that most third-party coils produced plots that went in and out of sync.

I will pass this along to Ron @RMJ Racing.. This might help him test .Good Idea! Thanks .

I do believe thats why pn#6302 (dual coil ignitors)come into play .But I'll know more as we progress..MazdaManiac do you or anyone else have any idea how or why tech would suggest the dual coil ignitors? . I think each one handles leading and trailing spark, but I'm sure you or others know more about this kind of thing.Please get back. Also feel free to check out new thread started on topic as instructed by swoope " MSD Ignition Project" and post any info you might have there..

LS2 coils:
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/electronics/ls2/ls2_01.jpg
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/electronics/ls2/ls2_02.jpg
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/electronics/ls2/ls2_03.jpg
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/electronics/ls2/ls2_04.jpg

The fit, they work and are directly compatible with the RX-8 electrically.
The only issues are plug wires (you must make your own), wiring harness (same) and fabrication of some brackets (need I say it?).

http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/rx8/electronics/ls2/ls2_coil_schematic.jpg

well that didn't take long ;)

I was going to mount them down on the side of the engine in the sparkplug area with the shorty plug wires, then build an adaptor harness for the wiring connections

guess I should have only let you have four instead of all eight, my bad :lol2: there's always the MSD LS2 route though

congrat's on proving it out :)

Big thanks to you, Mark. Had you not made your stuff available, I probably would have dragged my feet a few more months at least.

The MSD version of these coils would probably be even better. At some point I'll probably try a set of those as well.
I haven't done any significant tests of these coils efficacy in reducing misfires or handling richer mixtures, but I'll get to that on the dyno this weekend.

How did you make the harness?

Just splice the LS2 coil harness with the 8's

Yep.
However, I'm looking into getting the connectors that are like the ones on the coils.
It is also the same connector that is used on the power steering torque sensor harness.

Ok thanks. Thinking about doing my ignition this summer. I look forward to hearing your dyno/testing results.

Sweet! So I take it you didn't experience any timing issues like what you were discussing previously?

No. It turns out that the LS2 coils dwell is the same as the RX-8s.
The LS1 coils fire on the front edge.
The LS2 coils fire on the trailing edge and the dwell is controlled by rise time.

Cool! Sounds like a great lower-priced alternative to Mazsport solution... I think the next time my coils fail I'll get a set of LS2 coils regardless of any plans for FI...

Oh and while you're fabricating a custom mount, why not get the coils farther away from the engine block to avoid exposing them to heat and possible increase reliability? A while back you were asking about what to do to dress up your engine bay... Make a mount that conceals that rats nest of wires and get some nice bright red plug wires ;)

I've got red plug wires!

Doing an LS2 coil swap will not typically cost much less (if any at all) than the Mazsport solution. (Depending on your bargain-hunting capability! Thanks Mark!)
However, since it doesn't require an external igniter/converter, it can be used by folks that are restricted in the types of mods that they are allowed.

I've got red plug wires!

Doing an LS2 coil swap will not typically cost much less (if any at all) than the Mazsport solution. (Depending on your bargain-hunting capability! Thanks Mark!)
However, since it doesn't require an external igniter/converter, it can be used by folks that are restricted in the types of mods that they are allowed.

Yeah, I remember TeamRX8 mentioning something about this... I consider this rule bullshit since you're only replicating the functionality of the OEM coils. Ah well...

I did a quick search of ebay and saw sets of LS2 coils go for $300 ish

If I can source the connectors, I'll cobble together some "kits" for anyone that wants one.
Otherwise, its a fairly "involved" DIY.

very nice job jeff..

and great thread kill.... :):):)

beers :beer:

wow, i'm glad i've kept up on reading through this. i almost started ignoring it when the original plan changed a million times. nice job on making a nice alternative work. if you make a connector kit, i'd be in line for one.

Thanks for checking this out for us MM!

if you make a connector kit, i'd be in line for one.

+1 I would definitely buy one too.

you should suggest this to be a new BHR product

you should suggest this to be a new BHR product

Anything of this sort automatically becomes a BHR product!

So, is this still working as advertised, any updates.

The LS2 coils work perfectly. Nothing to update.

Awesome, the update I was refering to was the availability or source of the connectors you mentioned on your post. Thanks

Working on it.

I just received four MSDs 8247 LS2 Multi-Spark Blaster Coils that I purchased on eBay for $245. So far, I plugged one MSD coil to the leading (L1) side by individually connecting each wire to the four MSD coil pins.

The car stated right up and with an inductive timing light I check the spark output. I revved the engine up to 8k rpm several times while checking the timing light for spark output and to make sure that the spark duration/ratio was constant (sorry but I don’t have an oscilloscope).

So far no issues whatsoever.

I'm waiting for four D581 plug connectors to arrive so I can fabricate plugs for MSDs and splice into the OEM coil wires. Once installed I’ll take the car for a spin and will update the thread with pictures. I hope to have everything installed by the end of the week pending arrival of the D581 plug connectors. :eyetwitch

just want to reiterate to use LS2 coils

LS1 coils as stated in the thread title are a very poor choice, as noted earlier in this thread. Even the aftermarket LS1 versions aren't as good...

Perhaps a thread title change is in order? :)

Good job!
You are going to love them. Much smoother in the upper RPM band.

I wonder where did the OP go ~~~

Helloooooo ~~~~~~ *echo*

Fell into the abyss of his own fail.

If I can source the connectors, I'll cobble together some "kits" for anyone that wants one.
Otherwise, its a fairly "involved" DIY.

Jeff,

How well are they working? Did you do a dyno run over 330 whp with them? And if this offer still stands, whats the estimated cost? I might be interested :)

I don't think Jeff is too concerned with the harnesses anymore.....;)

Eek does that mean a bad thing or a good thing?

That is good for everybody.;)
As you get to know how he and I work as a team you'll come to understand a few other things, as well.

I'm back. Sorry about the thread maintenance. I had to halt everything because of business start up.
(swoope) you can kiss my a$$
.I'm glad that a few members were able to come up with alternatives and update thread.
MM as far as falling into an abyss of failure goes. I have no Idea what your talking about. As I stated earlier I went on to MSD ignition coil's and ignitors .
It's still a mystery as to why some members are so abrasive and ignorant. To those of you who are @#$% OFF back to your $hithole lives and keep up the good work you F#%$tards:spank:

Whoah!!!
You sure did show everyone. :uhh:

all of your projects failed or have been already completed..

you might do a search..

beers :beer:

great idea. Nice to see MM chiming in with a great solution.

Yes I am guilty of not getting something done. Yay your the one who pointed it out. Clap,Slap.

Did you know this my smart foe ?........................swoope sounds a lot like poop!!

I've failed on ignition system .You failed your whole life..

I knew the previous post would attract or bring you out of well' you know where..
You are with out a doubt the biggest pain in the a$$ on this website.
Seriously! Everyone!! just search and read a few of swoope and his F#$%tard friend, staticlag
post's if you don't believe me... I see you doing the same crap at other sites as well with your
trademark $hit stains you leave behind. Are you getting it? forget I asked .. I already know..:)

Well, Jedi, you just caused MM to be complimented indirectly. Kudos!:lol2: I guess that makes MM the #2 PITA on this website.

Yes I am guilty of not getting something done. Yay your the one who pointed it out. Clap,Slap.

Did you know this my smart foe ?........................swoope sounds a lot like poop!!

I've failed on ignition system .You failed your whole life..

I knew the previous post would attract or bring you out of well' you know where..
You are with out a doubt the biggest pain in the a$$ on this website.
Seriously! Everyone!! just search and read a few of swoope and his F#$%tard friend, staticlag
post's if you don't believe me... I see you doing the same crap as other sites as well with your
trademark $hit stains you leave behind. Are you getting it? forget I asked .. I already know..:)

ok,

that was helpful. what other sites?? :)

beers :beer:

soooo much anger I sense in you. Continue your training we shall not.

Other sites. Look? weirdo!!:rant: ...Hmmm I cant say that . It would not be right..As much of a ar$hole you are and are being I will not participate in that kind of activity.. It is a point at you and no one else. Lets face it I'm sure no body cares. Besides its really easy for anyone to find out ,.

with a bit of reading and searching as you so like to point out to members..lol

Other sites. Look? weirdo!!:rant: ...Hmmm I cant say that . It would not be right..As much of a ar$hole you are and are being I will not participate in that kind of activity.. It is a point at you and no one else. Lets face it I'm sure no body cares. Besides its really easy for anyone to find out ,.

with a bit of reading and searching as you so like to point out to members..lol

yep i am well know on the appliance forums for my wicked knowledge of kitchen aid ice maker mods.. :lol:

the ls2 mod is done, harness for that one are in the works. the msd is also done.. a very nice diy on that one also.. juan did a great job on that project.

dont be made at me..

you are very bitter for someone doing well in business. you should be enjoying it..

beers :beer:

soooo much anger I sense in you. Continue your training we shall not.

No training needed . Not angry either. I'm actually in a very peaceful zone.. I never liked Star Wars and never admired the jedi thing.. No respect there..Sorry.. Look this thread would be closed if I had it my way... Peace star traveler ...:)

You do have it your way, Burger King. Delete the first post and, POOF.

You do have it your way, Burger King. Delete the first post and, POOF.

he speaks the truth.