Background - I've got 17" Konig Holes wheels with Toyo Garit HT 215/55-17 winter tires on the RX-8 for winter use. I installed them 2 weeks ago, and they are definitely less precise and less grippy on dry pavement - that's to be expected, but it's enough of a difference from the OEM 18s that you have to be careful around corners until you get used to the lower limits.

Yesterday, Calgary got it's first winter storm - freezing rain, followed by about 6" of snow. I didn't drive the RX-8 to work yesterday, just to avoid the chance that one of the morons who never remembers to slow down when the first snowfall comes might run into me. Today, though, I did drive the 8 to work. Since I drove our Audi allroad (quattro AWD with Michelin Pilot Alpin winter tires) yesterday, that gave a good basis for comparison - road conditions both days were similar, with packed and loose snow over ice. It's about as bad as roads get, with lots of people unable to get up hills, getting stuck, buses cancelled, highways closed, etc!

The verdict: In a nutshell, the car handled great. Braking was excellent, I never had to trigger the ABS even on very slippery stuff. I was driving cautiously, obviously, but with all-seasons on that type of packed snow/ice surface, ABS would be easily activated. The car was able to move from a standstill in 4"-5" deep snow over ice, so traction was never a problem. The DSC/TC was kicking in quite a bit, and the stability control did a good job even if I didn't correct for a slide or deliberately gave it too much throttle. The car does move around a bit, enough so that my wife will have to get used to it (more than our Audi). I think it's actually going to be very controllable, and I suspect I'll drive it far more with the DSC turned off, just for fun.

Bottom line - the Toyo Garit HT winter tires are great, and make the RX-8 a fully competent winter vehicle. I'm very happy with how they performed today! Yet to come, the big empty snow-covered parking lot test with lots of sideways driving. :D

PS - with the stock OEM 18" tires, I never would have made it out of my driveway. If I had, I would have hit the curb on the first downhill corner, guaranteed. I would strongly recommend that you leave your RX-8 parked if you have the OEM 18" tires and there's any snow cover on the road. Take a cab, bus, whatever!

Regards,
Gordon

good job gord ....

I feel for you guys .... you got 6inchs of snow ...

it's 18 here in toronto :). Regardless i'm putting the car in the garage tonight ..... Just finshed waxing it with 4 coats of zaino. I don't want to wax the car later on with it being cold outside.

Thank you Gord96BRG for your information!!!

Have you tried your 8 in snow without TCS activated? I am waiting for my winter tires from Talon Tires as we speak and I also will be getting the Toyo Garit tires. However, because my 8 is the GS model without TCS, I am wondering if my 8 will get me through this winter safely.

Great Info!:)

Funny, I was about to come on here and post a question asking for this information :) :)

Today I HAD to move my 8 from the driveway in the back to the front street. I knew it would slide around with the Bridgestone RE040s but I wasn't prepared for how stuck I would get! It was fun to play around with the TCS to see how it worked. But it seemed easier to rock the car with it off.

Anyway, to make a long story short, the reverse on the 8 saved me. I ended up backing down the alley for an entire block without a problem. And then when I hit the main street I was able to move forward.

Question for Gord: why did you choose the Konig Holes? Were there any others that you looked at? What is the bolt pattern and offset?

Also if money was no object would you have tried the Pirelli Winter 210?

Good info Gord. We had our first snowfall on Monday 10-15 cm (4-6 in).

Sorry to hear that it is snowing up there....

Down here it was in the mid 80s (20s?) and will be so for the rest of the week. Blue skies also...

Wish I had an 8 to enjoy it.....

Originally posted by SQ88
Have you tried your 8 in snow without TCS activated?

We drove around tonight for a while with the DSC/TC off. It was pretty much like any other RWD car with a limited slip diff - the tail will step out if you give it too much throttle, sometimes quickly. I found a big difference between driving between 3-4K and between 2-3K: at the higher cruising rpm, any throttle movement had more effect on wheelspin/sliding. That makes sense because of the torque curve, so the easy solution to avoiding wheelspin and unwanted slides is to cruise with the revs lower. When you want to slide around, though (for me right now, that's below 50 km/h), the car does respond really well to the throttle, it is very controllable and recovers well (which means great fun!).

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Literatii
Question for Gord: why did you choose the Konig Holes? Were there any others that you looked at? What is the bolt pattern and offset?

Also if money was no object would you have tried the Pirelli Winter 210?

Money wasn't an obstacle, availability was - I originally ordered the Winter210 in 215/55-17, but Pirelli has no new stock in that size anywhere in Canada yet (well, 3 weeks ago anyway), so I went with the Toyos. After driving on them for 2 weeks, I think the Pirelli would probably be better on dry winter roads (from accounts and my recollection, the Pirelli's sidewall is stiffer - the Toyos are a bit mushy feeling).

There's a few winter tire threads in this Canada section and in the Tires/Wheels section where I've discussed wheel choices and detailed how I settled on this one, there's a lot of worthwhile reading in them. To sum up, I wanted a lightweight 17" wheel, and I really liked the looks of the Holes in graphite with the polished lip, so it was a leading candidate. I considered a few others, but they were either heavier or didn't fit. The bolt pattern for the RX-8 is 5x114.2, and the stock offset is 50mm. The 17" Holes are 45mm offset, and you could go to 42 or 40 if necessary without problems. The 17" Holes weighed 17.2 lbs IIRC, and with the Toyos mounted weigh 35.2 lbs (IIRC, it might have beem 35.6). By way of comparison, the 18" OEM wheels with RE-040s weigh 41.2 lbs (or 41.6...), either way the difference was exactly 6 lbs lighter for the 17" combo. I was surprised and pleased by that large of a reduction in unsprung weight, and the ride quality on the 17s is noticeably better.

Regards,
Gordon

Gord,

I'm just starting to cinch up my winter tire purchase. I've read a lot of the threads here.

Being from Calgary, you should probably understand this :) ...

First of all I have a winter beater 4x4. So on really bad days -- like last week -- I just take that. The route to my current client (NE) is basically down all the major roads (Glenmore, Deerfoot etc). So after a few days they generally become clean tarmack.

I'm debating the following based on the Blizzak LM-22 tire.

225/50/R17 with a 7" winter rim.

I've read some really good reviews on it so that is my first choice. The Toyo Observe Garit HT (which my co-worker just got for his A4) is my second choice.

My reasoning behind not going to a narrower tire is that I honestly don't think I'll need it. And... the LM-22 comes in picky sizes where you end up being forced to get that crappy Winterbiter tire instead.

I know you went 215/55/R17. So what do you think of my option?

Thanks.

Literatii,

I think the LM-22 in 225/50-17 is a great choice also. If you check Bridgestone's web site for detailed specs, you'll see that tire is actually slightly narrower than the 225/45-18 RE-040 (the OEM tire), so you'll still benefit from a slightly narrower tread width.

It's really a toss-up among the better winter tires - there's the Garit HT, Pirelli Winter210, LM-22, Michelin Pilot Alpin if they had an appropriate size, Nokian NRW. You can't go wrong! (especially compared to trying to use the OEM summer tires on snow :eek: )

Regards,
Gordon

Hi Fellow Canucks,

From Winnipeg here - had to order Blizzak 18" (225/45R18) from the States - they'll be here on Friday ...

It snowed here last week and the temp has been cold (-10-15) ... the OEM tires are absolutely horrible ...

I know they are summer tires, and tires make a big difference ... but the traction was SOOO bad that I'm afraid even winter tires will keep this car undrivable in snow ...

For example, it started to snow while I was at work on Tuesday ... I could barely get out of a parking lot (flat, no hills) ... all the tires do is spin ... on the drive home, I could only go 10km/hr ...

I really hope the winter tires will make a difference or else I'm in trouble ...

Originally posted by jimsabo21
I know they are summer tires, and tires make a big difference ... but the traction was SOOO bad that I'm afraid even winter tires will keep this car undrivable in snow ...

It really is all about the tires. I don't know if you've ever had high performance summer tires before, but if you haven't, then it's hard to imagine just how bad they are on snow! Now you know... ;) I didn't try the RX-8 on snow (we had a September snow storm, and I left the 8 parked for 2 days), but I've had to drive my Miata on performance summer tires in snow once - absolutely treacherous. Yet on all-seasons, it got around fine.

Trust us - with good winter tires, the RX-8 does fine!

(PS - I grew up in Steinbach, went to U of M in Winnipeg, moved to Calgary at age 22. I know all about Manitoba winters! :) )

Regards,
Gordon

Thanks Gordon,

I feel much better knowing that people are getting decent results with snow tires ...

It's still cold here - but the streets are dry - and my summer tires are performing quite well ...

I get my blizzak's on Friday - can't wait!

I put my winter wheels on this weekend and although we don't yet have snow in TO, the performance was pretty good. I have the FRD6 with Toyo's package from Talon Tire.

Obviously, you can't drive as aggressively as the summer tires but not bad at all. Very pleased. Now for the snow!!!!!

I agree with Gord96BRG and Taffy: Tires make big different!!! These winter tires are not performance tires and their limits are much lower comparing to the summer performance tires.

I too changed to my winter tires (FRD6 and Toyo G from Talon) last week and drove the car to see the limits of these tires on dry road. In braking, I had to be more gentle at high speed braking or the ABS will kick in. As for cornering, I think the limit is about 65% - 70% before the car looses grib and starts to slide.

Based on what I've learned with these Winter Tires, my advice to aggressive drivers is: TAKE IT EASY WITH SPEED...LIMITS ARE MUCH LOWER.

Have a safe winter:) :) :)

Yes, high performance summer tires are not useable in winter. My RX-7 has Mich. Pilot MXX3s (Z rated). They are ball bearings below 0C. Got stuck in 1/4" depressions in the snow one spring when I tried to move the car. Spun the car 90 deg. on dry pavement just gently touching the accelerator at -7 C last spring.

Car stays on jackstands for six months :-(.

Got my Bridgestone Blizzak' installed today on original rims (225/45R18) ...

Unfortunately - we have no snow or ice, so I can't give any further update yet ...

I'd love to hear exactly how the LM-22 and Blizzaks actually do on the slick stuff.

Not planning on driving the '8 on bad roads this year, as I have a Grand Cherokee for that, but I may next year after there's more feedback on which tires work and which don't.

I don't know if it's funny or sad, but some americans are planning to drive their 8 in the snow with stock tires.

The day I was to take my vehicle to the garage for my new rims/tires, I couldn't even get off the front street! And it was +1C.

I had to pay for a tow.

Originally posted by Omicron
I'd love to hear exactly how the LM-22 and Blizzaks actually do on the slick stuff.

Not planning on driving the '8 on bad roads this year, as I have a Grand Cherokee for that, but I may next year after there's more feedback on which tires work and which don't.

I also have a 4x4 that I take out during bad dumps (like today). So by and large, I only plan to drive the 8 on days where fender benders are not likely.

I've now heard two tire vendors say that although the Blizzaks are a great tire, they can wear a bit quickly. So if you plan to drive during the winter on good or heavily trafficked (ie: dry) roads, you might want to think about that.

I ended up buying a Toyo Garit tire, which has (believe it or not) some kind of acorn shell design to it that extends tred life. It seems pretty good on dry pavement and snow/ice.

Originally posted by Literatii
I also have a 4x4 that I take out during bad dumps (like today).

I drove the 8 to work this morning, after getting 4" of snow last night (for those of you not in Calgary). It was great - I was literally driving AROUND FWD sedans and SUVs that couldn't get away very well from lights. I've found that I tend to turn off the DSC because it's too intrusive, and I like to slide the car sometimes. There's absolutely no problem driving a winter-tire equipped RX-8 on snow/ice! We also have an Audi allroad (AWD wagon), and that one is more fun to blast away from a stop, but otherwise I prefer driving the RX-8 (maybe I'd prefer the Audi once the snow gets to be 10" deep! ;) )

Regards,
Gordon

Glad you made it to work Gordon :)

I'm just getting over the flu, so I wasn't going in today anyway.

The only thing I worry about on days like these are the idiots... and you know there are plenty of them on deerfoot :)

Man ... it snowed here everyday two weeks ago, and it was -20 already ... and I had to drive around in my summer tires ... believe me, it was really, really, really bad! I know - I'm stupid, but the 8 is my only car ..

I finally got my blizzak's installed, and we've had nothing but beautiful dry days ... and no snow in the forecast for the next week ...

I'm really curious to see if my snow tires will "cut the mustard" in a Winnipeg winter - or if I have to buy myself a winter beater ...

I lived in Winnipeg for over 10 years. Your Blizzaks should be fine. I think I'd worry more about the -30C days with no block heater; although I've never driven my rotary cars in that temp so I don't know for sure.

The only other thing would be the snow drifts. I remember them being pretty big in Winterpeg... which means one might have problems with a front spoiler.

Originally posted by Literatii
I lived in Winnipeg for over 10 years.

Small world! I grew up in Steinbach (~60km SE of Winnipeg), and went to U of M for 4 years, before moving to Calgary in 81. Calgary winters are pretty mild in comparison ;).

Anyone who lives in Winnipeg knows that this 'drifting' sport is no big deal - winter driving there means 6 months of drifting non-stop! :D

Regards,
Gordon

I too grew up in Winnipeg (Fort Richmond) and went to U of M. I took up Gord on his good advice re: Toyo Garits . . . fantastic and completely drivable in winter conditions. The 8 w/winters in Winnipeg will be fine with the only caveat being clearance as Literatii mentioned. Let us know your comments on the Blizzaks when winter arrives once and for all!

Well, it's -25c this morning here in Calgary! Maybe a bit later I'll go see how the car starts :)

Just took my 8 out to test it in the snow. I didn't even make out of the gate! LOL, I expected to at least leave my residence. Heck, I saw a Mustang Cobra make it out (barely)!

With OEM tires you won't be able to go anywhere. People don't believe it until they actually try it.

Wow. You guys were right! We had our first snow here in New York today and I had to leave my car at work - (I took a train home.) it just wouldn't move on the stock tires. It was so bad that I was all over the road. I'm used to people staring at the car and pointing - up till now it's been because of its looks - today they pointed because it looked like a drunken sailor (not that there's anything wrong with that) Please tell me that snow tires will make a difference; I never experienced anything so bad.

Originally posted by sewingguy
Please tell me that snow tires will make a difference; I never experienced anything so bad.

All over this forum for the past 2 months, I've been preaching that the stock summer high-performance tires will be absolutely useless on snow, and that anyone considering using the car in winter will have to get winter tires. I put mine on 6 weeks ago, and we've had snow for 5 weeks here. I started this particular thread 5 weeks ago to report that the RX-8 does great in snow on winter tires. Lots of other people have now confirmed this experience; lots of other people have also confirmed that the car goes nowhere on the stock tires. Since I reserved the right long ago to say this, I won't refrain: I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!! At least you followed one bit of my advice, and left the car parked rather than crunch it while trying to slide home. ;) If at all possible, get yourself a good set of winter tires - they do make all the difference. I actually prefer driving the RX-8 in snow to our Audi quattro (also equipped with 4 winter tires), the RX-8 is a lot more fun and nearly as sure-footed.

Regards,
Gordon

Count me in on those doubtful that tires make the difference!

My wife took the car to Target today and got stuck in the parking lot when she wanted to leave 5 minutes later due to the snow. It's all because I still have the stock tires on it. I took our other car, a Hyundai Elantra (which has NO problems in the snow - it's like a truck!), to assess the situation and to try myself to get the car out of the lot...guess what, it's IMPOSSIBLE. No traction. NIL. My tires never EVER stopped spinning on a flat grade with very little snow coverage. Ugh, how disheartening.

With the threat of a blizzard tomorrow, I did not want to leave the car in the parking lot until Sunday, and decided to bite the bullet and get the car towed home for peace of mind.

Now, I have to seriously and QUICKLY look into winter wheels and tires.

I’m also pleased with the performance of my GS--RX8 with winter tires. The other day I woke up to about 6 inches of snow and ice. I had to take the car out and test out the 1500$ tire package I bought from talon tires in Montreal. I was amazed at the stability, the car didn’t seem like it was pushing from the rear. I played with it a bit in the corners, rev’d it up a little and it fish tailed a bit. However it is a very easy car to correct. Having said that I have one tip—Remember it is the winter So on those bad days make sure you keep the rev’s low--change gears at 2k--3k.

tip--Remember it is the winter. So on those bad days make sure you keep the rev's low--change gears at 2k--3k.

Heya Samyv .... low revs?!?! You must be crazy! With DSC on the car behaves like a dream in snow (with good tires) - special favourite of mine on snow is accelerating hard from a stop, especially when taking a corner. What a blast!

Originally posted by bgparsons3
Heya Samyv .... low revs?!?! You must be crazy! With DSC on the car behaves like a dream in snow (with good tires) - special favourite of mine on snow is accelerating hard from a stop, especially when taking a corner. What a blast!

From Samyy's profile, he has a GS --- which means no traction control nor DSC. For Canada, the GT is much nicer in the winter, in my opinion anyway...

So what do you think...is it essentail to get 4 winter tires or can you get awy with just the rear tires. I know handleing will be affected but I use a mild driving style in the winter. I was also just thinking of getting winter tires in 18" and using the stock rims...

any thoughts?

Get 4 tires. Putting winter on the rear will only get you enough traction to accelerate enough so that you lose steering control.

Do a search on "group buy" in the Canada forum and you will find reams of info.

Naaah, if you live in Calgary, you won't need winter tires all round, it don't freeze there......

If you put the snows only on the back, it should be OK, it's not like you will need to steer or brake in a hurry.....and that way only the FRONT of the car will spin off the road, the back will be just :rolleyes: fine.

Sorry for the stupid sarcasm, but I am being a lot easier on you than Gord96BRG would be......be glad he didn't see your post first!

S

Point taken...the only reason why I brought thatup is because I used to drive an 84 Capri RS with over 300hp in the winter. That car only needed rear winter tires because you used the gas pedal to steer the car in the winter and the car never stopped well in summer so it wouldn't have made much difference in the winter.

The rx is a much better balanced car so what you have on all 4 corners will have a bigger impact....just was wondering if anybody had tried that.

Did your Capri have summers in the front? Seriously the tires on the 8 will just turn to hockey pucks at minus any degree, even around 0 it starts to get VERY slippery like your consitently driving on ice. You won't be able to stop at all. When you stop all the weight of the car is transfered to the front wheels, you'll just slide, and then chances are your back end will swap with your front end.

Did your Capri have summers in the front? Seriously the tires on the 8 will just turn to hockey pucks at minus any degree, even around 0 it starts to get VERY slippery like your consitently driving on ice. You won't be able to stop at all. When you stop all the weight of the car is transfered to the front wheels, you'll just slide, and then chances are your back end will swap with your front end.
Yes it did have summers on the front....but the Capri was heavy in the front so it would bite just fine. The RX is more balanced in weight distribution. I've been reading in other threada about just how slippery the RX is in winter without full blown winter tires. I was just curiuos what people had experienced. Thanks for the feedback.