http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rx8intake.html

what do u guys think?

Please post the raw data (dynorun.xxx) and we will look.

Thanks,

Vince

it is on their website, but anyway i'll just post it here

I think its expensive

I'd like to see a result with different exhausts with the intake upgrade in place.

(The Borla being popular...)

The raw data not a picture of a graph!

Vince

At least we know it's not the std. intake that causes all those little sqiggles and falling output at hi-rpm. But then ... what does and why?

Originally posted by Spin9k
At least we know it's not the std. intake that causes all those little sqiggles and falling output at hi-rpm. But then ... what does and why?

Canzoomer discovered while tuning his fuel controller that the erratic top end is due to the A/F ratio being too rich, something like 10:1

$360!! Prices seem alittle high. He certainly would need to post more pics and info....K&N will be out soon, it will be interesting to compare.

so will the CAI setup from racing beat....

Is it possible? 18 flywheel horsepower gain for intake? $360 for 18 flywheel horsepower gain will be worth of money if it is real.

i dont get how to read it? are u measureing hp by the wheel,flywheel, or what so whats 238hp form then

I hate to say this, but the graphs look suspcious to me.

I mean every single RPM got almost 8% more torque and thus 8% more power. Most intakes or exhausts usually have an RPM region where they behave better than other regions (usually the high end benefits the most with aftermarket exhausts and CAI's). But these two graphs look like the car did a dyno run, then some modification was done to the dynojets calibration file to pump up the reading, then same car was run again a little later.

There is also an issue in that the two dyno runs were done just 24 minutes apart (not including the amount of time it took to do dyno run .006 which isn't shown). Can the intake thing be swapped in and out that fast? It looks a lot more extensive than that.

BTW, I don't see any cone filter in their pictures. Are they just showing the pictures with the cone detached? What is filtering the air?

I am sorry to be a little suspicious. I will need a third-party test or some sort of no questions asked return policy before even thinking about it.

-Mr. Wigggles

The standard short arm intake is $260, not $360.

Ours comes with a top lip to furthere enclose the filter from the hot engine air. There is not another intake kit on the market at this time that has this feature.

More photos will be posted. Please bear with us. We don't just do RX-8, we do RX-7 as well and we have many projects on hand. We need to finish the RX-8 Mazdaspeed replica kit too. Photos of the retail version will be posted over the weekend both on the forum and on the Rotary Extreme website. Thank you.

Chuck Huang


Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
$360!! Prices seem alittle high. He certainly would need to post more pics and info....K&N will be out soon, it will be interesting to compare.

The max HP gain is 14 HP. You can read it from the dyno graph.

Mazda adverstise the hp at the flywheel to be 238HP. The max HP at the wheel with the stock air box is 187.3 HP and that's about 22% drivetrain loss. So you take 14 HP divided by 78%, that will give you the 18 HP gain at the flywheel.

Again, the price $260, not $360. The ram air one will give you more power but we can't duplicate the ram air effect on the dyno since the car is not moving.

Chuck Huang



Originally posted by donald121
Is it possible? 18 flywheel horsepower gain for intake? $360 for 18 flywheel horsepower gain will be worth of money if it is real.

If you think we post some fake dyno sheet, you can take the lines and see if they overlap. They don't.

We were working on the intake kit for almost 2 months. We have done a lot of R&D and test out different filters in order to get the best result. If we were to post some bogus dyno sheet, we would have done it 2 months ago already.

On the dyno sheet, you can see the time the car was dynoed. The dyno procedure was the following:

1. we dynoed the car with stock air box first. The car was warmed up to operating temp before we put it on the dyno.

2. the car was still strapped on the dyno and then we swapped out the stock air box with the short ram intake. The reason is that if you remove the car from the dyno, the result will not be accurate. Any change has to be done while the car is still on the dyno and strapped down. We did this to avoid any kind of factors that will affect the accuracy of the dyno result.

3. we dynoed the car again with short ram intake.

You are more than welcome to get the intake and dyno the car and see the result yourself. If you can prove there is no HP gain with a dyno sheet, I will give you 100% money back.

The reason that the pictures of the final product are not posted on the website yet is because we are waiting for the shields, covers, and piping to come back from the polishing shop. The photos will be posted over the weekend.

Chuck Huang




Originally posted by MrWigggles
I hate to say this, but the graphs look suspcious to me.

I mean every single RPM got almost 8% more torque and thus 8% more power. Most intakes or exhausts usually have an RPM region where they behave better than other regions (usually the high end benefits the most with aftermarket exhausts and CAI's). But these two graphs look like the car did a dyno run, then some modification was done to the dynojets calibration file to pump up the reading, then same car was run again a little later.

There is also an issue in that the two dyno runs were done just 24 minutes apart (not including the amount of time it took to do dyno run .006 which isn't shown). Can the intake thing be swapped in and out that fast? It looks a lot more extensive than that.

BTW, I don't see any cone filter in their pictures. Are they just showing the pictures with the cone detached? What is filtering the air?

I am sorry to be a little suspicious. I will need a third-party test or some sort of no questions asked return policy before even thinking about it.

-Mr. Wigggles

Chuck,

If you guys use a quality air filter, the thing makes 14 WHP, it can be unistalled/installed in 24 minutes, and you have a money back guarantee, then I am sold.

BTW, could you tell us which company is suppling your filter element? Some are better than others; it would be nice to know.

-Mr. Wigggles

Mr. Wiggles:

Please note that it did not have 14 rwhp gain across the board and we didn't advertise it as that. 14 rwhp is the max HP gain occurs at 7600 rpm. The dyno sheet is posted so you can take the difference between the two lines to figure out how much the HP gain is at any rpm. It starts to make big difference after 6500 rpm as shown on the dynosheet.

If you need more details, the dyno pull was done in 4th gear starting at about 2000 rpm.

If you have simple hand tools, you can install the intake within 40 min for sure. I personally have done it at least 20 times so I can do it within 15 min to be exact. I will also post installation instruction on the website.

The filter I am using for the short ram intake is the K&N one. For the ram air intake, I contracted another filter company whose name I do not wish to disclose.

As far as the cost, there is a lot of hidden cost and fixed cost that customers do not see and we have to distribute it on top of each unit. We have made a few prototype set ups and use different kinds of filters. Dyno them and road test them. The R&D cost is not cheap and it took us 2 months to give you the product that is guaranteed to make power or your money back.

Now on the material and design, we have chosen the best material and with very thoughtful designing process. We pay attention to details.

Our air flow sensor adapter is CNC machined for the closest tolerance. It will ensure the center part of the center that meansure the air flow will be at the center of the pipe. During the deisgning process, we have found that the air flow sensor on the rx8 is extremely sensitive. If it's not positioned perfectly, the air flow signal will be off and the car will run erraticly. It's possible for you to get a check engine light. The adapter is then TIG welded onto the pipe.

All the shields are done with 1/16" thick aluminum to make sure it's light weight and sturdy. The shileds are build to minimize hot air coming from the enigne. It's almost a completely sealed. The top cover also minimizes hot air getting into the filter.

I can easily build a $50 intake but I will be ashamed to sell that kind of product to customers and it will not be worth our company's reputation. We have built top quality products for the RX7 for years with many innovative designs which no other US vendors can offer. We want to do the same for RX-8. There will be cheaper alternatives on the market but quality costs money.

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by MrWigggles
Chuck,

If you guys use a quality air filter, the thing makes 14 WHP, it can be unistalled/installed in 24 minutes, and you have a money back guarantee, then I am sold.

BTW, could you tell us which company is suppling your filter element? Some are better than others; it would be nice to know.

-Mr. Wigggles

Chuck,

Just so you know. I was not being sarcastic.

I will buy the kit when it is ready. I will dyno my car before and after, post the results here on the forum. If the difference is similar to what you show in your dyno plots then I will keep the CAI.

Look forward to doing business with you.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. I didn't mention anything about price. $260 seems very reasonable to me for 14 peak extra HP at the wheels.

No problem. I understand where you are coming from.

The intake kit will be ready on Monday once we get the pipe and top cover back from the polishing shop.

If you want to put your car on the dyno, please note that you have to make sure all the factors are fixed. You will HAVE TO swap the intake on the dyno to get the most accurate result. And also due to heat soak factor, you also need to monitor the intake manifold temp to make sure both runs are beginning with the exact intake manifold temp. Air temp plays a big facotr on HP. Dyno Jet will calibrate for ambient temp but it has no idea how hot the intake manifold is.

I follow the same procedure on the AEM website:

http://www.aempower.com/product_intake_app.asp

You can find the dyno testing procedure at the bottom of that page.

For the price part, that was not directing to you. Sorry that it sounded that way.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by MrWigggles
Chuck,

Just so you know. I was not being sarcastic.

I will buy the kit when it is ready. I will dyno my car before and after, post the results here on the forum. If the difference is similar to what you show in your dyno plots then I will keep the CAI.

Look forward to doing business with you.

-Mr. Wigggles

Ps. I didn't mention anything about price. $260 seems very reasonable to me for 14 peak extra HP at the wheels.

Wow, sounds great... better than I expected it would!

Chuck, when will you have these available in quantity? Also, how large is the K&N filter element you are using with the short CAI? Also, when will you have pics up of the long CAI?

Thanks...

Chuck, it would be great to see some shots of the filter if poss.....

Just for the record, I bought from Chuck before, and I am sure everything is as accurate as he states

I've been looking into an RX8 but with my RX7, I feel guilty if I buy an 8.

Anyway, Chuck's product is first rate. I've the cold air intake from him. They run $500 for my car so what you guys are getting is dirt cheap.

Very high quality stuff and bolt-in without cutting etc..

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
The standard short arm intake is $260, not $360.

Ours comes with a top lip to furthere enclose the filter from the hot engine air. There is not another intake kit on the market at this time that has this feature.

More photos will be posted. Please bear with us. We don't just do RX-8, we do RX-7 as well and we have many projects on hand. We need to finish the RX-8 Mazdaspeed replica kit too. Photos of the retail version will be posted over the weekend both on the forum and on the Rotary Extreme website. Thank you.

Chuck Huang

the standard short ram intake is not $260... that is more than Cold Air intakes... short rams typically are under $200 USD

Right now I am just waiting for the filters to arrive. I have all the other parts ready to go for the short arm intake.

Here are some photos of the finished product:

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rx8intake-5.jpg

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rx8intake-7.jpg

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rx8intake-8.jpg

The filter is an oval shaped one with 3.5" flange, 7" tall, 7" wide and 4" thick.

The ram air one will be finished around Nov 21st. Photos will be posted after it's done.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Omicron
Wow, sounds great... better than I expected it would!

Chuck, when will you have these available in quantity? Also, how large is the K&N filter element you are using with the short CAI? Also, when will you have pics up of the long CAI?

Thanks...

Thanks for the support. :)

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
Chuck, it would be great to see some shots of the filter if poss.....

Just for the record, I bought from Chuck before, and I am sure everything is as accurate as he states

Rx-7 is a great car. I still have mine and I will never get rid of it. Right now I am putting on a full carbon fiber widebody kit. It will be in the magazines in a few months. Thanks for your support too. :)

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by PoMan Ferrari
I've been looking into an RX8 but with my RX7, I feel guilty if I buy an 8.

Anyway, Chuck's product is first rate. I've the cold air intake from him. They run $500 for my car so what you guys are getting is dirt cheap.

Very high quality stuff and bolt-in without cutting etc..

There definitely will be cheaper alternatives out there without all the featuers that are included with our own intake system. You can cut corners here and there to lower the cost. Our product is never the cheapest one on the market. We want to offer the products that's designed to work with all the features that we can think of, not designed to be cheap and affordable.

Chuck Huang


Originally posted by Efini 8
the standard short ram intake is not $260... that is more than Cold Air intakes... short rams typically are under $200 USD

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
Right now I am just waiting for the filters to arrive. I have all the other parts ready to go for the short arm intake.

The filter is an oval shaped one with 3.5" flange, 7" tall, 7" wide and 4" thick.

The ram air one will be finished around Nov 21st. Photos will be posted after it's done.

Chuck Huang
Thanks for the info, Chuck. Couple of more questions for you, if I may.

1. Am I correct in assuming you will also be posting dyno results for the ram air CAI when it's done?
2. Can you please post a pic of the short-arm CAI without the RX-8's engine cover in place?

Thanks...

One thing people might consider in this price even though i also think it is still a little expensive, is that the cost of the machined part on the tube and the cost of the what looks like mirrored stainless steel is NOT cheap. Yes they are just small parts but the cost of R&D is also NOT cheap. Granted they proabably do have some very good resources to get the material from and just might have their own machine shop and sheet metal break but it still is expensive to throw god knows how many guys on one project in a 2 month period with the high expectation of perfection. People want perfect and cheap. Thats not an easy accomplishment in the R&D world. Sure give them 2 years and their just might be some better resaults and a little less money but by that time the RX-8 will no longer be the got to have parts for car.

1. I expect the dyno result to be the same because I can't duplicate the ram air effect on the dyno since the car is not moving. But when you are actually driving, you can expect anthoer 3-5 rwhp gain over the short arm intake depending on how fast you are driving.

2. Here is the photos

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rx8intake-11.jpg


Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Omicron
Thanks for the info, Chuck. Couple of more questions for you, if I may.

1. Am I correct in assuming you will also be posting dyno results for the ram air CAI when it's done?
2. Can you please post a pic of the short-arm CAI without the RX-8's engine cover in place?

Thanks...

Looks great, love the shielding! I noticed Chuck that the K & N Protype Filters are much bigger. I wonder is there really a difference..i.e. bigger filter, more power..?

Thanks for the support. The polished top cover already costs $60 to be done. When you little things add up pretty quickly.

I wish I can sell the intake without the top cover and just knock down the price to $200 but then this setup will not be optimal. The top cover greatly minimizes hot air getting into the filter.

The back heat shield and the top cover make big difference on temperature reduction. Besies that, the polished cover looks super sexy inside the engine bay. :)

Chuck Huang



Originally posted by Jhouse
One thing people might consider in this price even though i also think it is still a little expensive, is that the cost of the machined part on the tube and the cost of the what looks like mirrored stainless steel is NOT cheap. Yes they are just small parts but the cost of R&D is also NOT cheap. Granted they proabably do have some very good resources to get the material from and just might have their own machine shop and sheet metal break but it still is expensive to throw god knows how many guys on one project in a 2 month period with the high expectation of perfection. People want perfect and cheap. Thats not an easy accomplishment in the R&D world. Sure give them 2 years and their just might be some better resaults and a little less money but by that time the RX-8 will no longer be the got to have parts for car.

Even though the K&N prototype uses a bigger filter, it's not really going to make a difference. You only need up to a certain size.

Our V mount intake for the RX-7 uses two small K&N filters and we made 386rwhp on those. Those two filters added together are still not as big as the K&N filter I am using for this intake set up. If I am able to put the filter I am using for the RX-8 on the single turbo RX-7, I am pretty sure it will support more than 500 rwhp.

Another thing I don't like the K&N prototype is that they positioned the filter at the very front. The tip of the filter blocks the stock fresh cold air duct. I don't know how they are able to get any cold air. That's why I use a shorter pipe so there is room between the filter and the stock fresh cold air duct for the cold air to get in.

Here is a dynosheet of the 386 rwhp stock twin turbo rx7.

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/craigdyno.jpg

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
Looks great, love the shielding! I noticed Chuck that the K & N Protype Filters are much bigger. I wonder is there really a difference..i.e. bigger filter, more power..?

Thanks for all the info Chuck!

There is another thread on the K&N intake. It looks like their retail version does not come with any kind of heat shield. With the front fresh air duct blocked off and no heat shield, you can expect the engine to be sucking in all the hot air and lose horsepower.

Rotary engine runs very hot. You can do the test yourself. Drive your car for a while even just cruising at high speed. Park the car and immediately take off the top cover and see how hot it is. Be careful not to get burnt when you do this.

Colder air makes more power just based on thermodynamics. That's why a turbocharged car needs to use an intercooler to cool down the charged air in order to make more power and prevent detonation. Same concept here. :)

Chuck Huang

Hi Chuck,

I'm not sure did you answer this question or not, but my question is why don't you use your first prototype? The one with longer piping, all the way to the lower front bumper. Isn't it suck colder air than the current prototype?

P.S. Your customer service is great. Super fast shipping. I ordered the clear marker from you guys, and received it in TWO business day.

The first prototype was done wrong. It didn't gain power on the dyno. We are still working on another ram air intake that's similar to the first prototype with some changes and it will be done around Nov 21st.

Thanks for the support. We keep those clear sidemarkers in stock for fast shipping. We always have at least 30 pairs of those in stock. Customer satisfaction is our number 1 concern. :)

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by donald121
Hi Chuck,

I'm not sure did you answer this question or not, but my question is why don't you use your first prototype? The one with longer piping, all the way to the lower front bumper. Isn't it suck colder air than the current prototype?

P.S. Your customer service is great. Super fast shipping. I ordered the clear marker from you guys, and received it in TWO business day.

Do you have to take off the front bumper assembly to install this intake? When will this thing be for sale? I'm very interested.

For the short arm intake that's shown in this thread, you do not need to take off the front bumper to install. You can finish the install within 40 min at most. All the components are already done. The only things we are waiting are the filters which will be here within a week. Currently we have 10 sets of the components made. Our machine shop can produce 20-30 sets of components per week so the lead time is very short even if we run out the first 10 sets.

On the ram air intake which will be released around Nov 21st, you will need to take off the front bumper to install. It will take about 1 hour to 1 1/2 hours depending on how good your mechanical skill is.

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Peakster
Do you have to take off the front bumper assembly to install this intake? When will this thing be for sale? I'm very interested.

Somebody order this thing quick and post some results!

Replace that accordian tube with a straight pipe

On your site you said that there is a 14 horsepower gain but the figures you post before and after 187 to 195 is only 9. What am I missing here to get 14 hp?

Thankx a lot...

The 14 HP gain was at about 7200 RPM, not at the Max HP point.

Originally posted by davefzr
On your site you said that there is a 14 horsepower gain but the figures you post before and after 187 to 195 is only 9. What am I missing here to get 14 hp?

Thankx a lot...

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------
Replace that accordian tube with a straight pipe
-------------------------------------------------------------

I would think the accordian would help keep torque induced rattles and vibration down and make installation a no brainer for those of us with just three wrenches.

Chuck,
got the sidemarkers 4 days ago. Thanks!
can't wait for CAI and your Urethane front bumper. So I guess that doesn't come painted. By the way do you have the headlight eyelids in stock right now?
Thanks

Can a new intake really provide a 12hp increase? How much does an intake like this normally cost (ballpark)?

ballpark 150

no a new intake will not make 12 hp..at the most it will make half of that or a little bit more..depending on what other mods you have done to your engine..

Originally posted by XDEEDUBBX
no a new intake will not make 12 hp..at the most it will make half of that or a little bit more..depending on what other mods you have done to your engine..

(Warning: stupid question coming)

Then why does K&N claim 12hp? If everyone knows it isn't true, aren't they setting themselves up for some trouble (false advertising, etc.)?

Mikeb, are you sure it's around $150? I did some poking around after I posted, and most of the K&N intake kits seem to be more like $250.

Still seems like a decent deal for 5-6hp increase...wonder how much it adds to engine noise though...

RE has also posted 14HP gain at a certain point, although not 14 at the top. They are probably doing the same and just not specifying anything.

I'm thinking about the RE one since Chuck has said up front if it doesnt perform he will take it back.

Chuck, you mentioned a while ago that it costs big bucks to polish the heat shield. Would it be possible to get this intake with a black, non-polished heat shield, or possibly to retain the factory airbox cover, and save some money? I personally don't care that much how pretty it is, as long as it work as advertised!

Thanks...

Only the Mazdaspeed original parts come painted. Our fiberglass or urethane bodykit do not come painted. Sorry about that.

I am working on the carbon fiber and fiberglass headlight eyelids right now. They should be finished in about a week.

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by KTM-316
Chuck,
got the sidemarkers 4 days ago. Thanks!
can't wait for CAI and your Urethane front bumper. So I guess that doesn't come painted. By the way do you have the headlight eyelids in stock right now?
Thanks

All the top covers I have are polished. I am sorry that I can't sell one without the polished top cover because aesthetics matters. It's just not good for us to sell a product that looks unfinished.

There is no factory air box cover. What you see is just the air box.

I am working with the site owner right now for advertisement. Once it's set up, I will host a group buy on the intake if there is enough interest. Sounds good?

Chuck Huang


Originally posted by Omicron
Chuck, you mentioned a while ago that it costs big bucks to polish the heat shield. Would it be possible to get this intake with a black, non-polished heat shield, or possibly to retain the factory airbox cover, and save some money? I personally don't care that much how pretty it is, as long as it work as advertised!

Thanks...

I would be interested in a group buy Chuck, and it will be great to see these eyelids. Keep up all the great work!

BTW, why did you keep the accordian. I noticed that K&N Typhoon intake removed it. Perhaps for a deeper noise ?

Chuck - I'd be interested in a group buy for the short-ram CAI, and would really like to see your carbon fiber cover. Woudl you offer a 'core exchange' for exchanging the polished cover to carbon fiber?

Thanks!

Originally posted by B-Nez
Oops, sorry. The whole scale thing...I should've read the posts more carefully. :D

Hope I did not appear to be 'smart', I work on the PC all day, and sometimes I miss words cause I get so cross-eyed! :-)

Originally posted by Genom
RE has also posted 14HP gain at a certain point, although not 14 at the top. They are probably doing the same and just not specifying anything.

I'm thinking about the RE one since Chuck has said up front if it doesnt perform he will take it back.

I think with Chuck you are going to have better service - your dealing with him directly - K&N - well theres all that phone crap and so on. The only think you buy from K&n is probably the name and quality of the product. ( my 3.5 cents worth )

Yep, I'd be interested in a group buy too.

Interest here too for a group buy.

Yes, I am also would be interested in group buy. What would be my total cost for shipping to Toronto - Canada including dutie fees?

Great Work!!!:)

There are a lot more things to consider other than how much hp its going to produce. You also have to think about MAF readings and turbulance in the intake path. You also don't want it to make the engine run to lean, because that is how it makes power. If it does you could be looking at detonation. Does anyone know how the K&N unit is mounted in the engine bay? Also I have seen intakes make 12hp before so dont doubt them. I have a K&N cold air in my wrx and it works great.

Group buy sounds good to me :)

Most intake systems these days use K&N filters. Their design is no different than most of the systems that will be coming out for the RX-8, unless it is routed down into the bumper. Its possible you can pick up 12HP from an open intake. Im sure AEM and Injen will come out with an intake, but its going to do the samething as all the others with similar HP claims. Putting the intake in its own box or cover isnt going to add much HP over than keeping it open.
K&N typically sells to retailers. You should be able to order it from any authorized K&N dealer when it comes out.

Jason
www.rx8store.com

got any links to RE intake?

me too me too

I'm interested in group buy too

Please post the raw data from the dyno please.

Vince

Chuck, two questions before I decide on buying it:
Does this void the warranty? I'm assuming no.
Does it enhance the sound of the engine?
Thanks.

Originally posted by Peakster
Chuck, two questions before I decide on buying it:
Does this void the warranty? I'm assuming no.
Does it enhance the sound of the engine?
Thanks.

I think if it did void the warranty it could easily be removed. Some Mazda dealerships are more picky than others it seems

Chuck was nice enough to forward the site below concerning warranty issues.

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8250

As to the sound of his unit, he also responded:

"Because the intake is open element so it's going to be louder than stock only if you accelerate. If you are only cruising, it will not be louder"

I don't know about tuned intake ports and supersonic swirls etc, but I wonder if some of us give too much credit to the OEM design. They have to deal with so many compromises, cost, noise rules, EPA rules, filter efficiencies.... My limited experience with motorcycles indicates (rented dyno time proven) there is power to be had with playing with OEM intakes. Sure, the RX8's looks pretty good, but folks like Rotary Extreme can provide dyno results showing improvements. I have ordered one of Chuck's units to test. We shall see.

Tom

I keep the tube because I found it makes no HP gain replacing it with a silicone transition hose which costs $40. Besides that, the stock one comes with a chamber that muffles the sound a bit so the intake is not as loud. With the current setup, the sound from the intake is the same as stock when you cruise and you can really hear it when you floor it. I figure this is the best for rx8 which should be civilized when you just drive around town and cruise.

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
I would be interested in a group buy Chuck, and it will be great to see these eyelids. Keep up all the great work!

BTW, why did you keep the accordian. I noticed that K&N Typhoon intake removed it. Perhaps for a deeper noise ?

Dynosheet has been posted in this thread. What raw data do you need? The dyno numbers were SAE corrected just in case you are wondering about the ambient temp and humidity.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by compaddict
Please post the raw data from the dyno please.

Vince

what about the group buy
any options?

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
Dynosheet has been posted in this thread. What raw data do you need? The dyno numbers were SAE corrected just in case you are wondering about the ambient temp and humidity.

Chuck Huang

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14161

Simple.

Vince

Vince...

I'm not sure what you accomplish with running the Dynojet Winpep software yourself. The end is a line graph, just like you would get if you attended a dyno pull outing a dealer puts on. I have several files of data comparing one motorcycle with another; great for me to play with, but not any more useful than a before / after printout as Chuck has provided. Your challenge to "simply provide raw data" will not uncover any tricks that a dyno operator might try like, no fan on the intake, air con turned/off, Traction control on/off, etc.
Tom

We don't own a dynojet. The dyno was performed at another independent dyno shop and I am not sure if they will be able to provide me with raw data. Be honest with you, I have no idea how to operate a dynojet or manipulate with raw data.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by compaddict
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14161

Simple.

Vince

Originally posted by islandsoon
Vince...

I'm not sure what you accomplish with running the Dynojet Winpep software yourself. The end is a line graph, just like you would get if you attended a dyno pull outing a dealer puts on. I have several files of data comparing one motorcycle with another; great for me to play with, but not any more useful than a before / after printout as Chuck has provided. Your challenge to "simply provide raw data" will not uncover any tricks that a dyno operator might try like, no fan on the intake, air con turned/off, Traction control on/off, etc.
Tom

Then you can disregard the information that you don't want and be on your way. Easy.

Vince

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
We don't own a dynojet. The dyno was performed at another independent dyno shop and I am not sure if they will be able to provide me with raw data. Be honest with you, I have no idea how to operate a dynojet or manipulate with raw data.

Chuck Huang

So your claims go to the bullshit pile. Don't worry you have plenty of company. Can't say you didn't try!

Vince

What's your problem? Becuase I don't own a dynojet and I don't have the raw data on hand and that makes my dynosheet a fake and bull shit? The dyno place is 2 hours away so once you request, I have to drive down there to get it for you? If I spend time to get it for you so you can play it on your computer, will you purchase one?

Best of all, you can purcahse one and dyno it yourself and see what it does before you call bull shit on anyone.

You seem very negative and I don' t understand where that's coming from.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by compaddict
So your claims go to the bullshit pile. Don't worry you have plenty of company. Can't say you didn't try!

Vince

I agree with Chuck. Too many people here cry bs and yet half of them have never even seen much less know personally how a dyno works. I'm sure if anyone purchases an intake, dynos the car, and proves that there was no gain whatsoever, Chuck will be willing to let you return it. Of course if you do dyno it, you'd better own the dyno yourself, and know every little in and out on the details of it! After all that would only be fair wouldn't it?

Chuck,

I agree with you about the dynos. but anyway..

Could you comment about the driveability of the car after the intake is purchased. There has been a lot of discussion about the Borla exhaust install (which I have) and have noticed that the car isnt choppy at all down low and it merely just increased the power.

I am really curious about the level of performance after this mod has taken place. With the Borla the power really felt a lot better after 5.5 on up and I am curious what you felt after riding the car. That to me is the best part. Hearing what your personal experience with the power has been.

It gets people talking I think.

Thankx a lot!

After the intake is intalled, the car's drivability is the same as stock. My butt is not as sensitive as before because my project rx7 has a lot more power than the RX-8. My rx7 on pump gas has about 450 rwhp and every additional psi of boost gives the car another 25 rwhp. My butt dyno is probably the least accurate one. :D That's why I had the rx8 dyno tested. :)

If you look at the dynosheet, you can see the HP gain increases as rpm goes up. This makes sense since engine at higher rpm requires more air and the less restrictive intake system will make more power at higher rpm compared to a more restrictive intake.

To prove my point, you can do the following test. Dyno the car with the stock air box and then dyno the car again with the stock air box but no air filter. If there is not any HP difference, you can say a less restritive intake will not make any hp gain and any kind of aftermarket intake should not provide any noticeable HP gain.

Today, I talked to another shop who told me that they did the above test. Their car's base line is 185 rwhp and after they remove the filter, the car has 197 rwhp.

People who have doubt are more than welcome to perform this simple dyno test. It's a lot eaiser than swapping intake system on the dyno. You can remove the filter out of the air box in 5 min.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by davefzr
Chuck,

I agree with you about the dynos. but anyway..

Could you comment about the driveability of the car after the intake is purchased. There has been a lot of discussion about the Borla exhaust install (which I have) and have noticed that the car isnt choppy at all down low and it merely just increased the power.

I am really curious about the level of performance after this mod has taken place. With the Borla the power really felt a lot better after 5.5 on up and I am curious what you felt after riding the car. That to me is the best part. Hearing what your personal experience with the power has been.

It gets people talking I think.

Thankx a lot!

davefzr...
A simple 'home dyno used to quickly verify changes is to locate a nice spot on a straight road. Always use this same section. Up a hill or flat is fine. Start a timer at a start spot as you hit the gas in say 4th gear at a predetermined (again always the speed), 20 mph or whatever works for you. Measure the time it takes to get to either a certain rpm or a certain mph, no shifting. Do three runs and average. Make your change to the car and retest. Will not tell HP, will not even be that accurate, but it will record significant differences and is better than just "feels like more power".
Tom

Chuck,

Your the one making a very large profit from your HP claims.

So far you have made most every bullshit excuse (I'm waiting for "the computer crashed" or "the floppy drive doesn't work") for not producing the data.

Go get the raw data from your Dynojet people and post the raw data from all of your dyno runs.

Again, your the one selling 35.00 worth of parts for 300.00 and making bold HP claims. What I'm asking for is very simple, show us the raw data please.

Vince

Guys, this is getting ugly. If you wish to continue the conversation in pms, go ahead, but take it off the public forums. Thanks.

Originally posted by Elara
Guys, this is getting ugly. If you wish to continue the conversation in pms, go ahead, but take it off the public forums. Thanks.

Elara please do not close the thread. It seems that there is only one person here who is creating very negative comments. So far Chuck has been answering every question in a very proffesional mannar, and I have certainly learnt a thing or too. I am sure that other posters will back me up on this one.

I agree though, if your going to give someone ahard time...do it through PM's

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
Elara please do not close the thread. It seems that there is only one person here who is creating very negative comments. So far Chuck has been answering every question in a very proffesional mannar, and I have certainly learnt a thing or too. I am sure that other posters will back me up on this one.

I agree though, if your going to give someone ahard time...do it through PM's

Wasn't planning on closing it. Just don't want to see the nastiness that's being thrown at Mr. Huang any more. As long as it stops, the thread's fine.

And while I apologize for stepping in here, enough people are complaining the mods do nothing about flaming that I'm going to crack down hard on anything resembling personal attacks that I see from now on.

1. The filter itself already costs more than $35. I don't know how you can make the exact set up for $35 including all the components and features.

2. You can spend the money and do the testing yourself. You will be happier that way. No matter what kind of data I provide, to you it's all bull shit.

Chuck Huang



Originally posted by compaddict
Chuck,

Your the one making a very large profit from your HP claims.

So far you have made most every bullshit excuse (I'm waiting for "the computer crashed" or "the floppy drive doesn't work") for not producing the data.

Go get the raw data from your Dynojet people and post the raw data from all of your dyno runs.

Again, your the one selling 35.00 worth of parts for 300.00 and making bold HP claims. What I'm asking for is very simple, show us the raw data please.

Vince

I don't mind all the quetions and I am happy to answer them all. Thank you for not closing the thread for just one person being extremely rude without any kind of internet etiquette.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Elara
Wasn't planning on closing it. Just don't want to see the nastiness that's being thrown at Mr. Huang any more. As long as it stops, the thread's fine.

And while I apologize for stepping in here, enough people are complaining the mods do nothing about flaming that I'm going to crack down hard on anything resembling personal attacks that I see from now on.

I think that if you use a forum to sell your goods and someone asks questions you need to answer them (and not duck and dodge).
The bold HP claims were made here and my questions should be answered here.
I take it personal when someone tries to gain my trust then lie to me and make a fat profit.
Mr Huang,
Lets get this back on track and show us all the data from your test dyno runs.

Vince

What question that people asked I duck and dodge?

Go back to my post and read what time I posted about the raw data. When I saw your post, it was 7:30 pm and the dyno shop was already closed and that's why I said I am not sure if I can get the raw data or not because I couldn't reach any people at the dynoshop at that time. The earliest I can find out if I can get the raw data will be on Monday when they open. All the other questions have been answered.

If you can get it done for $35, it will seem like I am making a huge profit but apparently I can't get it done as cheaply as you can, not even close. I don't know how it's possible. I am sorry to disappoint you. I am not making a huge profit. Can you show everyone how you can get it done for $35? They will love to hear about it as I would too. Can you not duck and dodge this question? Can I call you bull shit if you can't back up your claim?

Chuck Huang




Originally posted by compaddict
I think that if you use a forum to sell your goods and someone asks questions you need to answer them (and not duck and dodge).
The bold HP claims were made here and my questions should be answered here.
I take it personal when someone tries to gain my trust then lie to me and make a fat profit.
Mr Huang,
Lets get this back on track and show us all the data from your test dyno runs.

Vince

Thanks Chuck. We await the data.

Vince

Who's "we." Vince, you clearly are of the opinion that its all BS and anything that doesn't exactly match your requests will be used as evidence of that (the title of the thread you referenced is evidence enough of that). If he manipulated the dyno chart then he could manipulate the raw data just as easily. I really think he's done what he needs to do here. Obviously, if his intention is to lie about his intake performance, he can do so with any data he provides. The truth will come out, either way, when someone buys his intake and tests it themselves. Really, you're welcome to your opinions and all...but he has provided data. If you want to call BS on it then the onus is on you to prove that data false, whether its a chart, a table of numbers, whatever.

jds

I still don't understand Vince's hostility towards aftermarket vendors here in the forum. If anything, we should be thanking these people for developing products for our car, but instead they face the endless and unfair scrutiny from some of the members here. So far, the only person Vince trusts here is Canzoomer who hasn't posted any evidence (dynos, raw data, etc.) on his claim. I have nothing against Canzoomer, and in fact, I would be the first one in line when his product becomes available. Maybe Vince is waiting for Chuck to send him a free intake so he can test it on his own that's why he's hounding on Chuck. For what it's worth, I think Chuck is doing a good job of answering all the questions so far.

...and Chuck has stated he will refund the money if not happy.

Originally posted by h8CAfwy
I still don't understand Vince's hostility towards aftermarket vendors here in the forum. If anything, we should be thanking these people for developing products for our car, but instead they face the endless and unfair scrutiny from some of the members here. So far, the only person Vince trusts here is Canzoomer who hasn't posted any evidence (dynos, raw data, etc.) on his claim. I have nothing against Canzoomer, and in fact, I would be the first one in line when his product becomes available. Maybe Vince is waiting for Chuck to send him a free intake so he can test it on his own that's why he's hounding on Chuck. For what it's worth, I think Chuck is doing a good job of answering all the questions so far.

Hostile, hounding and unfair scrutiny?

When someone tries to sell you and me something based on lies and bullshit you should direct your suspicion to them not me.

The truth is a funny thing sometimes.. You should demand some for yourself.

Vince

Originally posted by bureau13
Who's "we." Vince, you clearly are of the opinion that its all BS and anything that doesn't exactly match your requests will be used as evidence of that (the title of the thread you referenced is evidence enough of that). If he manipulated the dyno chart then he could manipulate the raw data just as easily. I really think he's done what he needs to do here. Obviously, if his intention is to lie about his intake performance, he can do so with any data he provides. The truth will come out, either way, when someone buys his intake and tests it themselves. Really, you're welcome to your opinions and all...but he has provided data. If you want to call BS on it then the onus is on you to prove that data false, whether its a chart, a table of numbers, whatever.

jds

How about lets expose it for a fraud and not buy it first and save some people from getting ripped off?

I mean "We" as a group not as a whole.

Vince

I'me sorry Vince, but I tend to beleive well established companies that produce this sorta thing. When the person responsable gives me a money back warranty as well, I feel comfortable that it will perform. I dont know why your so hell bent stating this is BS, when as far as I know, you have not shown WHY it's BS other than your opinion. I also dont know you and have no idea where your experience comes from, while RE has a good reputation with RX-7 owners I have talked to.

YOU dont have to buy squat from this man if you dont want to. But your ragging on a guy who has not shown any reson for that sort of behaviour. He has been open, honest and helpful about this intake. Your wanting raw data is pointless as if he was smart enough to modify the data to show his numbers, it wont show up anywhere if your just running it through the vieweing software.

Your only way to prove it's BS is to put one on and try it out. NO other electronic form will prove anything otherwise. And if ya dont belive me, I'll get the raw data for my dyno run and show you data that says my car has 7000HP.

Please, be fair at least before being offensive and possibly scaring new people off who dont know whats going on.

Or ignore me altogether. Whatever floats yer boat.

Originally posted by compaddict
Hostile, hounding and unfair scrutiny?

When someone tries to sell you and me something based on lies and bullshit you should direct your suspicion to them not me.

The truth is a funny thing sometimes.. You should demand some for yourself.

Vince

Once again, what is your basis for calling their claims lies and bullshit when you haven't tested yourself or anyone else for that matter? All I'm saying is let's give these people the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong.

Well, I understand where he's coming from...there is a lot of useless crap out there that is branded as a "performance upgrade" but in reality is anything but. However...I think his expectations of what a vendor has to do to "prove" their claims is unrealistic. Its almost like, hound them to the point where its just way too much trouble to try and answer in a satisfactory manner, and then when they throw up their hands in disgust say "I told you so, see? Its a fraud!" Its just not a realistic approach to anything.

jds

Originally posted by Genom
I'me sorry Vince, but I tend to beleive well established companies that produce this sorta thing. When the person responsable gives me a money back warranty as well, I feel comfortable that it will perform. I dont know why your so hell bent stating this is BS, when as far as I know, you have not shown WHY it's BS other than your opinion. I also dont know you and have no idea where your experience comes from, while RE has a good reputation with RX-7 owners I have talked to.

YOU dont have to buy squat from this man if you dont want to. But your ragging on a guy who has not shown any reson for that sort of behaviour. He has been open, honest and helpful about this intake. Your wanting raw data is pointless as if he was smart enough to modify the data to show his numbers, it wont show up anywhere if your just running it through the vieweing software.

Your only way to prove it's BS is to put one on and try it out. NO other electronic form will prove anything otherwise. And if ya dont belive me, I'll get the raw data for my dyno run and show you data that says my car has 7000HP.

Please, be fair at least before being offensive and possibly scaring new people off who dont know whats going on.

Or ignore me altogether. Whatever floats yer boat.

I agree with you totally but regarding "I tend to beleive well established companies that produce this sorta thing"--does Mazda come to anyone's mind. 250, 248, 239...next IMHO it's going to be 210-220 or a free ECU flash. Truth is I LOVE my car, but besides being the best handling car I've ever owned, I would like to get better straight line acceleration out of it. Do I like the acceleration it has? YES. Would I like it more if it was 10% better? You betcha.:D

This really is easy to wrap your mind around folks.

Chuck showed us a picture of some dyno runs and after multiple unanswered (and dodged) requests for the data behind them he is now going to produce the data that made the pictures.

For those that want to buy his product or any other like it.. Buy it and you can then defend it as much as you see fit.

If you haven't bought his or another like it and you are just defending a vender trying to sell you something that you want to really believe in...

Engineers are crying while the thieves are stealing.

Vince

While I can understand your skepticism, what you're asking for from Chuck is really inconclusive. If you think he skewed his dyno results in any way shape or form, what make's you think that he won't do the same to the raw data? It's just bad business practice to be deceitful as the truth will eventually come out--case in point Mazda. Loosing customers is the fastest way to go out of business. But if he's telling the truth, we all come out as winners. Another example would be K&N. Why would you think that K&N will grossly overrate their product only for the RX8. So far all the dyno results posted by vendors are very much in line with each other. I think you're undermining the intelligence of members in this forum by sticking to your gun with such conviction without any scientific proof. I'm just trying to approach things logically based on the information presented in this forum.

Vince:

Please answer the following questions with facts, not assumption:

1. How did I duck and dodge YOUR request. Your questions have been answered and you even said "THANK YOU"

2. What kind of proof do you have that my dyno result was forged?

3. What kind of evidence do you have that I am going to forge some raw data to back up my dynosheet?

I guess now I don't need to take my time to get the raw data. You already determined that I will forge the data. But it's kind of funny because the data has to exsit before a dyno sheet can be plotted. And you are saying I am going to forge the data to back up my dynosheet? That doesn't make any sense. A true engineer should know about this.

If you are truly an engineer, you should do your own investigation to prove something you are in doubt. I don't remember my professors at UC Berkeley teaching me calling people bull shit without any kind of back up data is the way of science.

On the contrary, you have not answered how you can make the same intake setup for $35 with the same components. Can you not duck and dodge this very simple question that you brought upon yourself?

Do you know what you are doing is defamation and I can take legal action agaist you? You publicly stated that I lied and stole without any kind of facts or proof. All your statements were based on your believes and assumptions and unfortunately for you, they are all stored on the forum and can be viewed in public.

This will be my last post directing to you because the exchange between you and me is not helping the forum. From now on, your post will be ignored because I can't get anything through someone who is prejudiced.

Chuck Huang



Originally posted by compaddict
This really is easy to wrap your mind around folks.

Chuck showed us a picture of some dyno runs and after multiple unanswered (and dodged) requests for the data behind them he is now going to produce the data that made the pictures.

For those that want to buy his product or any other like it.. Buy it and you can then defend it as much as you see fit.

If you haven't bought his or another like it and you are just defending a vender trying to sell you something that you want to really believe in...

Engineers are crying while the thieves are stealing.

Vince

Originally posted by red_rx8_red_int
I agree with you totally but regarding "I tend to beleive well established companies that produce this sorta thing"--does Mazda come to anyone's mind. 250, 248, 239...next IMHO it's going to be 210-220 or a free ECU flash. Truth is I LOVE my car, but besides being the best handling car I've ever owned, I would like to get better straight line acceleration out of it. Do I like the acceleration it has? YES. Would I like it more if it was 10% better? You betcha.:D

I agree that Mazda borked up big time. They also lost customers for it with returns and lost sales. I will say however that HP was not a consideration for me to buy the car, so in this aprticular case it didnt bother me. If I bought the intake and it didnt perform as stated, THEN I would have an issue and return it. I had the option of returning my car too after all.

But I think it's safe to say that lying on this particular forum has been shown to be a very bad thing as the word gets around. Again, Mazda is a good case in point. If there hadent been so much exposure here they probably could have gotten away with more. I dont know that fotr sure of course, but it's a thought.

So I take it your not going to produce the data then? Since you won't answer my posts now I guess I shouldn't even ask.

The ball is still in your court to prove me wrong. Just post the data and redeem yourself.

Don't use words or threats just post the data and put this to bed.

I'll be the first one in the apology line when you do.

Vince

Vince,
Wrap your pee brain around this thought.
The RAW data means nothing more or less than the dyno charts. Either can be faked, so what is your hangup with needing the raw data?

You can only either trust the vendor's data or not. If not, then you will need a third party to verify the data, so why are you giving Chuck such a hard time?



Originally posted by compaddict
This really is easy to wrap your mind around folks.

Chuck showed us a picture of some dyno runs and after multiple unanswered (and dodged) requests for the data behind them he is now going to produce the data that made the pictures.

For those that want to buy his product or any other like it.. Buy it and you can then defend it as much as you see fit.

If you haven't bought his or another like it and you are just defending a vender trying to sell you something that you want to really believe in...

Engineers are crying while the thieves are stealing.

Vince

The ball is in nobodys court. There is no game. Chuck has already proven himself and you personally haven't believed it. At this point will ANYTHING make you a believer? No! You'll make a new excuse for the results. If someone buys it and has no gains from it, it is up to them to take it up with Chuck pure and simple and the results would most certainly surface here. It is not for YOU or ANYONE to try to disprove him before they have even seen let alone used the product personally. With arguments like this you'd make a lousy lawyer.

The way it seems here is that only one person has something to prove. Here's what needs to be done to accomplish this. BTW, I'm not referring to Chuck!

1: Make an intake for $35 or less (no more) that works as good or better than Chuck's posted results. Hell, just make it out perform the factory intake for less than $35.

2: Prove he is wrong with what information is already provided. Provide absolute data about specific details in which the data may or may not have been falsified. When I say absolute data the info that is required is info so detailed that I want to know exactly which screw to turn, which button to push, etc that will tell everyone how to do it and the differences between every different model and type of dyno available for automotive use. Obviously only a true expert into the actual workings of a dyno knows how to do this will be able to answer this. If someone doesn't claim to be an expert using the dyno itself, it doesn't mean that they still can't take it somewhere to have someone that knows about it test their car. However, if someone cries about the results saying it must be forged, they MUST be an expert. So Mr. Expert, how do you do it? Details please!

If these 2 things can be met than the rest of us here may actually take some of what is said here into consideration. If this can't be met then there is only 1 person here with a problem and at that point it becomes HIS problem and not anyone elses and therefore no need for anyone else to do anything to appease him.

Since I have said it once, apparently is wasn't enough. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN A PRODUCT. DON'T BUY IT! Simple isn't it? Do you do this all day with all the truly bs products in the world? I'm willing to bet no.

Game, set, match, crowd cheers, crowd leaves, janitors clean up, lights go off, and everyone is at home cozy in bed! Wait, there was no game to begin with! Why am I in a dark stadium?

Chuck: You've always been a wonderful supporter and vendor to the rotary community and I just personally want to tell you that my views of you can not be swayed by the opinion of one harsh critic. FWIW, some of the best movies I've ever seen had some very harsh critics too. You must be doing something right!

How about we do it this way. Chuck shows us the data and those who choose to ignore can.

This stated off very simple with Chuck posting dyno charts and me asking for data.

The data is very easy to get from the computer running the Dynojet. In fact you can put near two-hundred runs on one floppy. Or ten runs can be sent via email and take less then a minute to download on dial up.

Again let's see the data and discuss it and get off what a great vender Chuck is for selling it and what an evil person I am for asking questions.

Vince

..why is this such a big deal to you Vince, would you rather not just wait for the K&N Intake, a company that has 'many' research engineers and whatnot? I personally am tired of reading this back and forth motion which is going no where. I just want to read about Chucks product, his research and progress. You have not answered any of his questions either. "NOW' if you can cough up a intake for $35, I am first in line - otherwise can we please drop it. Send him a private email as a moderator already asked of you.

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
..why is this such a big deal to you Vince, would you rather not just wait for the K&N Intake, a company that has 'many' research engineers and whatnot? I personally am tired of reading this back and forth motion which is going no where. I just want to read about Chucks product, his research and progress. You have not answered any of his questions either. "NOW' if you can cough up a intake for $35, I am first in line - otherwise can we please drop it. Send him a private email as a moderator already asked of you.
It's a big deal because I think it's bullshit.

If your tired of reading about my quest why add to the fodder?

Vince

Vince,
You have yet to explain the logic for why the raw data is better than the original dyno plot. Either you trust his plot or you don't.
Raw data will not persuade you to trust his HP claims, only several repeatable data points from neutral 3rd parties will persuade you.

Why don't you wait until some people try out the intake and verify or disprove the claims. Until then, I see no way to satisfy your doubts.

After thinking through the whole thing, I have decided not to post raw data in public for the following reasons:

1. A forged dynosheet has to be generated from forged raw data. If a dynosheet is already suspected of being forged, there is no point to post the raw data from which the dynosheet is generated.

2. A person who already determines the invalidity dynosheet and the raw data desperately asking for raw data must have other use of it other than simply viewing. Why bother to view it if you already determine the data is no good.

3. With raw data, you will be able to print out your own dynosheet. I don't know what other things you can do with the viewer Maybe change the name, date, etc and claim it to be your own. I will want to prevent my data from being misused.

4. Some people on this forum already have purchased the intake and shortly they will be giving review of it. Let the product be customer proven. I don't need to say more. Right now it comes down to the point that either you believe it or you don't. If people use it and like it, they will share the info. If they use it and they don't like it, they will share the info, too. Let the users speak, not people with prejudice or assumptions.

This intake is not going to make your car gain 100 HP and let you beat vipers all day long. If you are expecting something like that, it's not going to happen and we will never advertise it with such a claim. But this intake will flow better than stock and gives you HP gain that can be measured on the dyno with controlled environment, meaning all the factors that will affect the performance of the car are fixed or kept closely to the greatest possible extend. The only variable is the intake.

Chuck Huang

Very wise Chuck. Rest assured that most of us fully back and believe you. Maybe this jackass will finally shut up now....

Well said Mr Huang...

The proof of the pudding is in the eating after all. I for one would like to be involved in a group buy if it were to be arranged.

Very wise decision Chuck.

Vince

His hang-up with the raw data is that Chuck has not produced it. If he were to do so, then this data would be questioned, and Chuck would have to provide yet another form of proof...perhaps a notarized note from the dyno operators mom...and so on and on, ad nauseum...until such point that Chuck refuses, and that becomes the sticking point that proves that the RE intake is in fact a sham, because clearly, if it were real, he would provide just that One More Thing that is being requested.

I concur with what a number of other folks have said...wise move Chuck, don't put up the data, if for no other reason than to let this thread degenerate any farther!

jds

Originally posted by Reeko
Vince,
You have yet to explain the logic for why the raw data is better than the original dyno plot. Either you trust his plot or you don't.
Raw data will not persuade you to trust his HP claims, only several repeatable data points from neutral 3rd parties will persuade you.

Why don't you wait until some people try out the intake and verify or disprove the claims. Until then, I see no way to satisfy your doubts.

Thieves and fools walk together.

Vince

Originally posted by compaddict
Thieves and fools walk together.

Vince

Word of wisdom from the unwise. :)

Originally posted by VelocityRedRX8
The proof of the pudding is in the eating after all. I for one would like to be involved in a group buy if it were to be arranged.

Yeah, what ever happened to the group buy thing??

For those of you who are interested in the intake group buy, please go to

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/rx8intakegb.html

Thank you.

Chuck Huang

Doesn't anyone else see anything suspicious about all this?

1. The horsepower gains seem way to high.

2. He won't post the data.

3. His website preferes Paypal (no buyer protection).

Just my three cents.

Vince

Vince will you give it a break...."Please". We got your point! and you certainly have given more than 3 cents worth, perhaps more like $35...but then perhaps thats alittle shady for you....

BTW...Paypal does protect buyers rights and actually so does modern credit cards...and..what exactly is 'Horepower' ?

Horepower fixed!

Paypal only protects in matters that you don't receive merchandise or service. Paypal protects themselves not consumers.

When a vender accepts Visa/Mastercard the consumer and vender are both protected.

Once you use Paypal most of your Visa/Mastercard rights go out the window.

Vince

Now you are criticising his website??? Sounds like a personal vendetta to discredit RE one way or the other...

So did you hassle whoever sold you the parts that you fitted to your Miata for the data etc? ;)

To answer your question directly: NO, apparently no one else sees anything wrong at all. Now, admit it: You're really Ralph Nader, aren't you?

jds

Originally posted by compaddict
Doesn't anyone else see anything suspicious about all this?

1. The horsepower gains seem way to high.

2. He won't post the data.

3. His website preferes Paypal (no buyer protection).

Just my three cents.

Vince

Originally posted by compaddict
Horepower fixed!

Paypal only protects in matters that you don't receive merchandise or service. Paypal protects themselves not consumers.

When a vender accepts Visa/Mastercard the consumer and vender are both protected.

Once you use Paypal most of your Visa/Mastercard rights go out the window.

Vince

no actually, your rights do not go out the window...on a few occasions I have been screwed (i.e. ebay) and have payed via paypal - never had a problem with my credit card refund....oh gees, whats the use, you'll have some comment to argue with this too....I'll post the raw data if it helps...:-)

So, has anyone had a chance to test this intake for themselves? I am not saying chuck is not being truthful, I am just curious if anyone has purchased one and noticed any difference, or had a chance to dyno one for themselves?

-Sinna

IMHO, anything that starts with (what I think is) bullshit and ends with asking for my money is very suspect.

Add to that the owner not posting the data from the dyno runs when asked.

Add to that a web site that prefers Paypal and from what I can see doesn't take Visa/Mastercard.

These are real concerns and they should raise a red flag or two (or three).

I think my motives are very simple and easy to understand. There is nothing personal about them at all.

Yes I did have to do a chargeback (my first ever) with a vender called Roadster Performance. I ordered a header from them and they charged my credit card and then went 90+ days beyond the expected ship date. They also stopped answering the phone and went out of business 60 days after I got my money back.
All the other venders I still enjoy healthy relationships with.

On the other side I have been a business member of the BBB for over ten years with a retail computer store and have had a total of three complaints. Two were nut-jobs and one was something that I really did do wrong.

I also think Ralph Nader is a whack.

I hope that clears up something for somebody.

Vince

Can't we all just get along....

Originally posted by compaddict
IMHO, anything that starts with (what I think is) bullshit and ends with asking for my money is very suspect.

Add to that the owner not posting the data from the dyno runs when asked.

----You were the only one who asked. Everyone else thinks that the dyno plots themselves is sufficient until early customers can post back their own results.

Add to that a web site that prefers Paypal and from what I can see doesn't take Visa/Mastercard. BTW, I noticed you immediately signed up for canzoomers fuel controller, even though he did not post Raw data. Didn't see you get all over his case about it.

---I don't sweat Paypal, it is very convenient. If you have issues with Paypal, if you have had problems using Paypal, then I can sympathize with your concerns.

These are real concerns and they should raise a red flag or two (or three).

I think my motives are very simple and easy to understand. There is nothing personal about them at all.

--Sounds like you are bitter and have a personal vendetta to me. The rest of us are fine with the HP claims as they are, until independent confirmation can be obtained. This is the same as any after market performance company Big or Small. You really can't be sure of the HP claims until someone you trust (either enough 3rd parties, or someone you know personally) has confirmed the claims.

Yes I did have to do a chargeback (my first ever) with a vender called Roadster Performance. I ordered a header from them and they charged my credit card and then went 90+ days beyond the expected ship date. They also stopped answering the phone and went out of business 60 days after I got my money back.
All the other venders I still enjoy healthy relationships with.

On the other side I have been a business member of the BBB for over ten years with a retail computer store and have had a total of three complaints. Two were nut-jobs and one was something that I really did do wrong.

I also think Ralph Nader is a whack.

I hope that clears up something for somebody.

Vince

The one that starts with bull shit is you. Everything you said is based on your assumptions. Now you have to criticize my preferred payment method?

1. Call PayPal and ask them about my record. Zero complaints ever since I used them.

2. Go to RX7 Forum and look up Rotary Extreme see if I ever take people's money without sending products or if I ever screwed anyone.

3. Ask the forum members here to see any one got screwed.

You can easily verify all those with a little bit of work so you don't have to make all those assumptions.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by compaddict
IMHO, anything that starts with (what I think is) bullshit and ends with asking for my money is very suspect.

Add to that the owner not posting the data from the dyno runs when asked.

Add to that a web site that prefers Paypal and from what I can see doesn't take Visa/Mastercard.

These are real concerns and they should raise a red flag or two (or three).

I think my motives are very simple and easy to understand. There is nothing personal about them at all.

Yes I did have to do a chargeback (my first ever) with a vender called Roadster Performance. I ordered a header from them and they charged my credit card and then went 90+ days beyond the expected ship date. They also stopped answering the phone and went out of business 60 days after I got my money back.
All the other venders I still enjoy healthy relationships with.

On the other side I have been a business member of the BBB for over ten years with a retail computer store and have had a total of three complaints. Two were nut-jobs and one was something that I really did do wrong.

I also think Ralph Nader is a whack.

I hope that clears up something for somebody.

Vince

One of the vendors got it and is testing it out on their car right now.

The rest of orders will be shipped on Monday. You should hear from them shortly if they want to post here.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Sinna
So, has anyone had a chance to test this intake for themselves? I am not saying chuck is not being truthful, I am just curious if anyone has purchased one and noticed any difference, or had a chance to dyno one for themselves?

-Sinna

Chuck -- this must be what it is like to be constantly heckled when trying to give a speech. I would just ignore Vince -- I think he is just doing this because he keeps getting a rise out of you. My take is that 99% of the people here appreciate your efforts and are open to letting your products speak for themselves. I have seen nothing that would make me think your products are anything but top notch. I have a Borla exhaust on my 8 and I am sure Vince would say that the hp claims are bs for that also -- but let me say there is a noticable power difference above 7k rpms and I don't need a dyno or raw data to prove it.

Keep up the good work and forget about Vince.

I can't wait for reviews! Chuck, has anyone signed up for the group buy yet?

I have to say Compact, you have some pretty big balls. I've dealt with Chuck in the past and he's been a great person (and business) to deal with. I've never had a single problem in several high $$$ transactions. Being a business owner, you should be aware of the cost of obtaining a reasonable account with Visa/Mastercard and the risks involved.

As far as the whole dynojet thing goes, raw data will not show anything that the SAE corrected graph won't show. Out of curiosity, do you know ANYTHING about operating a dyno and how the correction factors work? If you did, you'd be asking to see the correcdtion factors used on both posted runs, not the raw data. The correction factor ensures that both runs are "compatible" in terms of comparison. Let's say the 20min. it took for Chuck to swap intakes the ambient air temp went up 10 degrees? That's completely feasible and does happen if the first run is done first thing in the morning. So...raw data may show a smaller increase in power. It may also show that certain factors such as ambient temp are different. How then do you validate or nullify the results? In theory, Dynojet's correction factor allows anyone, anywhere to compare two different cars given that the dynamometer model in question is the same and both are maintained within specs.

I'm just interested in what you think the raw data will show? I'm also curious what your experience is in a)modifying cars and b)tuning on a dyno.

I ask because if you knew half as much as your terse comments would suggest, you'd be asking for correction factors and air/fuel ratios as well (I'd go into the whole a/f ratio and larger filter thing but it's too long and drawn out). Whatcha think?

Skipping the first two paragraphs..

Raw data shows the speed of the car on the dyno and if they have WB setup you can see A/F ratio.

My first engine build (around 1981) was Chevy 250 six with a forged crank, custom Chet Herbert cam, Clifford Research 4BBL manifold, six into two long tube headers, Accel electronic dist., MSD ignition, Carter 400CFM carb, full port & polish with 327 Corvette valves. All put together and tuned by me (not on a dyno).

I did an engine swap into a Subaru with an import only dual carb Subaru engine about six years later.

I did a mild custom engine in a mostly full restoration of a MB220SE around two years after that.

And my latest is a CSP Miata that I have over one hundred dyno runs on.

I can be a very good tuner but the TEC3 has a bit of a learning curve and it's really hard to tune on the street because of speed and noise concerns. So I wouldn't consider myself a good tuner with it yet.

How do you feel about the horsepower claims made by Chuck?

Vince

Chuck, how many people have signed up for the group buy?

I have 4 people bought them at retail. 1 of them was sold to a shop who already put it on their car and love it so far. The other 3 will be shipped on Monday.

So far no one has joined the group buy.

If there is any one putting down group buy deposit on the intake, I will post their name on the same page. If you go to the group buy page and see nothing, that means no one has put down any money yet. Thank you.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Omicron
Chuck, how many people have signed up for the group buy?

That's weird...maybe I'm making a bad assumption here, but from their web site the Typhoon series looks like the "all show" cone filter on a color-coordinated tube thing, as opposed to the FIPK series which seems more "real." Maybe that's not correct, but that's the impression I get from their site. Also, the prototype that was discussed elsewhere on this forum looked like more of an FIPK-style intake. So this is kind of odd...

jds

Great, thanks Chuck.

Does anyone remember that "special" kid in grade school who would always dance around and try to start trouble even though the rest of the class constantly ignored him? Somehow that just popped in my head and I thought it relevant. Oh well.

I have 5 intake kits going out on Monday. I know 2 of them are from this forum. I will ask them to post some reviews after they install them. Thank you.

Chuck

BTW, I just want to thank everyone for the support. There are many people who have supported me and my company in this thread. My appreciation goes to every one of you. Thanks again.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by rotarygod
Does anyone remember that "special" kid in grade school who would always dance around and try to start trouble even though the rest of the class constantly ignored him? Somehow that just popped in my head and I thought it relevant. Oh well.
I think my biggest mistake is arguing with idiots.

I keep looking for smart people in this thread even though I know that informed smart people saw the first few posts and never looked back.

Enjoy the bliss.

Vince

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
I have 5 intake kits going out on Monday. I know 2 of them are from this forum. I will ask them to post some reviews after they install them. Thank you.

Chuck

Maybe ask them to post before and after dyno charts? Otherwise (as has been discussed), the typical new mod syndrome will mean that they will love it, love the sound, and can definitely "feel" an improvement. No slam at your intake, Chuck, but that syndrome applies to every power-enhancing mod for every car on the market. Butt dynos are worthless. A review lacking before/after dyno charts is pretty much worthless as well in determining (independently) if the intake is actually adding anything.

Regards,
Gordon

Gordan:

Obviously I can't ask them to get their cars on the dyno since I am not paying for it. If they want to put their car on the dyno and swap the intake on the dyno and post the dynosheets, they are more than welcome to do so.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Maybe ask them to post before and after dyno charts? Otherwise (as has been discussed), the typical new mod syndrome will mean that they will love it, love the sound, and can definitely "feel" an improvement. No slam at your intake, Chuck, but that syndrome applies to every power-enhancing mod for every car on the market. Butt dynos are worthless. A review lacking before/after dyno charts is pretty much worthless as well in determining (independently) if the intake is actually adding anything.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by compaddict
I think my biggest mistake is arguing with idiots.

I keep looking for smart people in this thread even though I know that informed smart people saw the first few posts and never looked back.

Enjoy the bliss.

Vince

LOL... Smart people of course like hmm ... yourself? You seem in a bit of a corner which will make it kinda interesting for you if Chuck's new system produces HP as claimed.
Tom

Originally posted by compaddict
I think my biggest mistake is arguing with idiots.

I keep looking for smart people in this thread even though I know that informed smart people saw the first few posts and never looked back.

Enjoy the bliss.

Vince

Get over yourself buddy. Just because I do not have your experience doesnt mean I am a "fool" or an "idiot". I thought you where being insulting to Chuck because of a specific reason, but now I see your the idiot if you think calling people names rather than offering an explanantion for the admitted hundreds of newbies here would benefit anybody.

Nicely done.

Originally posted by compaddict
I think my biggest mistake is arguing with idiots.

I keep looking for smart people in this thread even though I know that informed smart people saw the first few posts and never looked back.

Enjoy the bliss.

Vince


Heav'n hath no rage like love to hatred turn'd, Nor Hell a fury, like a compaddict scorn'd.

Amen!

Chuck,

Your the one making a very large profit from your HP claims.

So far you have made most every bullshit excuse (I'm waiting for "the computer crashed" or "the floppy drive doesn't work") for not producing the data.

Go get the raw data from your Dynojet people and post the raw data from all of your dyno runs.

Again, your the one selling 35.00 worth of parts for 300.00 and making bold HP claims. What I'm asking for is very simple, show us the raw data please.

Yes, he's well on his way to becoming the next "polished-tubing-and-air-filter" tycoon. If it were possible to sell effective intakes for $35, including the cost of labor, tooling, and rent for a facility--don't you think one of the many aftermarket companies out there would have done so, and stole all the business? (By "effective", I don't mean 10 inches of scrap PVC from Home Depot, covered with a sock, sticking through a hole in the hood.)

His hang-up with the raw data is that Chuck has not produced it. If he were to do so, then this data would be questioned, and Chuck would have to provide yet another form of proof...perhaps a notarized note from the dyno operators mom...and so on and on, ad nauseum...until such point that Chuck refuses, and that becomes the sticking point that proves that the RE intake is in fact a sham, because clearly, if it were real, he would provide just that One More Thing that is being requested.

Exactly. If you can doctor the graphs, you can doctor the source data I'm guessing. The company I work for doesn't give out MS Word documents or AutoCAD files for this very reason--the customer can easily change them and claim anything they want.

I installed the intake last Thursday when it arrived (sooner than expected) and I am impressed with fit, finish, and performance.
Mid range and top end are vastly better. I will do back to back dyno work early next week to confirm what the butt dyno is telling me. After that I will develop my own exhaust system utilizing cnc mandrel bent tubing, laser cut flanges etc.
If you want to see previous results of my work check out www.teammoonexhaust.com. SportCompact magazine rated us number one in their shootout on the MR2 Spyder exhaust and I hope to be able to produce something for my 8 that will be of premium quality and performance. As always, dyno results will be posted assuming that the results are worthy of production.
I hope that this will compliment Chuck's intake.

Yikes... Sounds like great news for RX8 owners.
PoMan, we look forward to your results! Although favorable results might mean some of us will have some crow to clean up off our plates.

old famous quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------
I think my biggest mistake is arguing with idiots.

I keep looking for smart people in this thread even though I know that informed smart people saw the first few posts and never looked back.

Enjoy the bliss.

Vince
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poman- It does'nt matter if you dyno it back to back or not....because you won't release the "raw data" I'm shure. :rolleyes: And plus I'm shure Chuck is paying you.

CJ:D

I'll release bloody raw data with a pic of the car on the dyno if it'll put a smile on your face. I wouldn't know Chuck if he walked in to my shop. All I can say at this point is that the man is an honest business man like myself and that he is selling a legitimate product that I plan to test myself to prove what I am feeling in the seat of my pants.

PoMan, pp13bnos was kidding!

Smiles are very good!

Vince

I know he was:) And I was just being sarcastic. (sp?) No offence poman, I was just joking around poking at Vince a little bit. CJ

Well, if 21 people sign up for the RE intake, the price drops to $200 with the group buy. As soon as I get permission from my wife, I'm in!

Chuck,

Can you supply the filter to the UK?

Also, is anyone thinking about signing up to the group buy for this thing?


-andy-

Yes, it can be shipped to UK or any other country. Email me at rotaryextreme@aol.com for details.

Chuck Huang
http://www.rotaryextreme.com


Originally posted by sixspeed
Chuck,

Can you supply the filter to the UK?

Also, is anyone thinking about signing up to the group buy for this thing?


-andy-

Go to this thread and you will see it


http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15203

Chuck Huang
http://www.rotaryextreme.com

Originally posted by TeKP
Is there anyone out there who has installed this CAI and could post their experience with it? Performance gains most importantly.

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
Go to this thread and you will see it


http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15203

the closest thing to a report on performance gains in that thread is my butt and ears tell me I’m defiantly making some more power. Even if its just my ear deceiving me into thinking the car is faster, I don’t mind, since the car just sounds so much better now

The other buyer who posted also wrote about how it sounds great. That's nice and all, but there's still no independent verification of the power increase claims! ;)

Regards,
Gordon

If you pay for their dyno runs, I am pretty sure they will be glad to get you the verification you need. :)

Chuck Huang
http://www.rotaryextreme.com


Originally posted by Gord96BRG
the closest thing to a report on performance gains in that thread is

The other buyer who posted also wrote about how it sounds great. That's nice and all, but there's still no independent verification of the power increase claims! ;)

Regards,
Gordon

This is my first rotor, and i haven't really heard much about Rotary Extreme. I was wondering as to the quality of their products and their company?

Beyond reproach.

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
If you pay for their dyno runs, I am pretty sure they will be glad to get you the verification you need. :)

My point was simply that compaddict was questioning the raw data of the dyno charts you posted, and you and several others throughout this thread said that the data would be verified by customer reviews once the intake was shipping. I'm not questioning the dyno runs you did, but this is exactly the problem with customer reviews - no one actually puts it on a dyno to independently, objectively, confirm the power increase. All that ever seems to be posted with most people who install intake or exhaust mods is "sounds great" and "my butt dyno tells me it's faster". That's great, but it isn't really a valid confirmation of the power increase. In fact, this only supports compaddicts argument that buyers always want to feel an improvement in performance to justify their expenditure. Butt dynos are notoriously unreliable in quantifying performance improvements! ;)

How are we supposed to use these sort of customer reviews to decide if this intake (or any other intake) really does provide the promised power? They're pretty unconvincing.

I should point out that I'm not in the market for an intake or exhaust, so it doesn't make any difference to me personally, I'm just interested in knowing what real improvements are available. So far, we still only have the vendor claims to go by to evaluate the relative merits of the different intake offerings or exhaust offerings. If I were going to put an intake on my car (or exhaust), you can be sure that I'd be getting a before/after dyno run to verify an improvement (how else could I exercise a money-back guarantee?). It just surprises me that nobody so far who is investing in these improvements is doing any dyno testing to evaluate the increases they're supposedly getting, or to track the improvements contributed by each component.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by MrWigggles
I hate to say this, but the graphs look suspcious to me.



I gotta agree....plus........you trying to tell me my 8 would only have 30 hp at 1500 rpm?? Don't believe so. Looks like they just took the original curves and rotated them slightly.

Ok.....so how do I go about finding out where a dyno is in my area? I know nothing about dynos, how they work or are set up. Hell, i'm not even a motor/rotor head, I just work on helicopters for a living. I love my 8, HP or no HP.........well if there was no HP it would be sitting still............

BAck to my point, what kind of place do I look for in the yellow pages that would have a dyno and what would it cost for runs, approximately?

If you have a slight idea of how HP is related to torque and rpm, you would not have said this. How much HP do you think there is at 1500 rpm? 100? It' s not about what you believe, it's based on a math equation.


Originally posted by Werth_lots
I gotta agree....plus........you trying to tell me my 8 would only have 30 hp at 1500 rpm?? Don't believe so. Looks like they just took the original curves and rotated them slightly.

Go to http://www.pettitracing.com. They have a dyno. They are in FL but FL is pretty big so I don't know how close they are to you.


Originally posted by oosik
Ok.....so how do I go about finding out where a dyno is in my area? I know nothing about dynos, how they work or are set up. Hell, i'm not even a motor/rotor head, I just work on helicopters for a living. I love my 8, HP or no HP.........well if there was no HP it would be sitting still............

BAck to my point, what kind of place do I look for in the yellow pages that would have a dyno and what would it cost for runs, approximately?

Try:
http://www.dynojet.com/ldynocntr.shtml

Most places are around 65.00 per hour. Bring a couple of floppy disks so you can save your dyno data.

Vince

Go to http://www.pettitracing.com. They have a dyno. They are in FL but FL is pretty big so I don't know how close they are to you.

eewww..............5 hour drive!!

Try:
http://www.dynojet.com/ldynocntr.shtml

Most places are around 65.00 per hour. Bring a couple of floppy disks so you can save your dyno data.

Vince


Good link.......
$65/hr? Regardless of the number of runs? How long would such a run take? If it take s an hour to do a run then the $130 won't be worth it to me. 260+130-->390, almost $400 for an intake......hmmm

Depending on the shop the 65.00 per includes setup time.
Prepare the car ahead of time:
Check tire pressure.
Check oil level.
Install the tie down hooks in the front.
If your going to do a before and after try to make a deal with the shop for a flat rate and three runs on each setup.
Make third gear runs only (puts much less stress on the engine for much less time).
Try to let the engine cool down at idle for three- five minutes between runs.
Make sure they put one or two large fans in front of the car at all times.

Good luck!

Vince

I'll call around and see how it all works......don't expect anything anytime soon from me. but when i decide to do it, ya'll be the first to know!!

Good advice Compaddict. Thanks to your helpful link, I discovered 2 shops with dynos within 30 miles of me, and may just hook up with them. Problem is, I have to pay for all this out of my own pocket, and am not sure I want to do that just to convince the doubters on this board. I wouldn't be doing it for me, cause as far as I'm concerned, if I like the way it drives and I feel like the car has more power, then it was money well spent. Hafta ponder on it.

Be that as it may, I know very little about a dyno procedure, but think I have a basic grasp. Assuming I do, your pointers raise a couple of questions...
Install the tie down hooks in the front.
Where do we get these? Where do we anchor them on the car? How much do they cost?
Make third gear runs only (puts much less stress on the engine for much less time).
Please explain this. Do you mean you start from 3rd gear from a "stand still," much as you'd do on the street if you 1st and 2nd gears were broken, and you had to start from 3rd? Or do you mean to not exceed 3rd gear while on the dyno?

What might be most helpful is if you could explain the complete dyno procedure from the time I get to the shop till the time I leave. Wouldya mind? :D

Originally posted by Omicron
Please explain this. Do you mean you start from 3rd gear from a "stand still," much as you'd do on the street if you 1st and 2nd gears were broken, and you had to start from 3rd? Or do you mean to not exceed 3rd gear while on the dyno?

What might be most helpful is if you could explain the complete dyno procedure from the time I get to the shop till the time I leave. Wouldya mind? :D

having never dyno'd a car, i would also like the details

The RX-8 has two tie down hooks in your trunk (next to the jack) and they screw in the front or the rear behind plastic trim pieces.

The car only comes with two tow hooks so you have to pick front or rear. When I only had two hooks I chose the front for the hooks because I didn't want the tech grabbing the more complex front suspension for tie down purposes.

When I start my pulls I run gently through first and second gear then start logging the run right after grabbing third gear at full throttle.

I run at full throttle right up just past redline (or until I hit the rev-limiter) then get off the throttle and onto the clutch and take it out of gear. From that point the tech running the dyno takes over and applies his brake to slow then stop the rollers.

That's about the basics.

Vince

Thanks for the info.

So Vince, are you interested in contributing to the cost of a Dyno run before and after?

Yes, whats your Paypal account name and I'll donate.

Vince

I'll PM you Monday and we'll discuss.

Okay.

Wow Vince thats pretty awsome of you, but then again im kinda greedy lol.

Good luck on the dyno!

I can chip in a tenner. PM the info.

My question, if mr Huang is proven to have provided accurate date will compact apologize for being so damn rude?

I would imagine if its proven to be complete BS alot of people will thank him for his skeptisism, but never for his attitude.

Originally posted by Rotor_Rev
The intake went on in about 45 minutes. There does seem to be a noticable hp gain. It will take some getting used to the new resonance under full thottle. This intake is LOUD.

I put the RotaryExtreme CAI in my car, and noticed a large increase in volume under load as well. Wow! Serious resonances that diminish when I back off the throttle.

Incease in volume (both K&N and RotaryExtreme)...pleasant and harmonious, or raspy and ricey?

It is a pleasant throaty resonance under full throttle. I would highly recommend the K&N based on performance, resonance and ease of installation. As soon as I resolve this opportunity with my irregular idle I will be able to recommend it without reservation. It's probably something as simple as a dirty mass air flow sensor. If any in the DFW area would like to "peep" the intake I'm sure we could meet up at the cafe or else where after hours. I am just unable to meet with you all on Wed.

I'll keep you all posted...
Rotor

ANy updates, waiting for the HP increase....

i would love to get that answer to that same question, im debating that same thing. I really dont know, but my only comments are that from what i see the RE intake has a smaller filter while the k&n has a huge oval cone, but the k&N is open and the RE is closed so no engine heat, i dont know, but i would like to buy one of them soon!! the price is no bigdeal to me, i want to make sure i get the better of the 2

My friend just installed the RE Intake...it is definetly smoother on the upper end of the RPM band. The intake is really loud though when you mash the gas. I kind of have a mixed opinion about adding an intake at all now. I haven't heard a K&N...

everybody tells me though that you cant even tell its on when you are just idling and cruising. only when you punch it and get to the upper RMP's do you hear it

As 'Alex' mentioned "the stock system is as close to a cold air intake as we're going to get". If this is the case, what makes the RotaryExtreme CAI or K&N any better? Is it the make-up of the filter it's self? It's ability to suck in more air somehow? I must say that I am also concerned with 'bunglega' comment that it has made his friends car 'louder'.

I have been following all the threads on aftermarket intakes and exhausts and the one thing that I'm monitoring closely is the mods ability to increase hp and torque while adding a little snarl to the 8's note. What I'm concerned about is a ear throbbing drown, especially at cruising speeds.

My last ride had a K&N intake with a Stillen exhaust and it sounded great at idle through hard acceleration but the cruising decibles were enough to make me go mad!

It sounds if at this point RotaryExtremes CAI is leading the way due to its cold only air induction versus the K&N which will suck in more hot air from the engine. Thus possibly hurting performance? But what then about the reported gains by both companies? Where do their findings lie?

I appreciate the responses thus far and will look forward to more reading.

so what happens if u put a lid on the k&n?

A K&N drop-in filter won't gain you more than 2-3 hp. The only real advantage over the stock filter is that it is reusable. Anybody who wants to disagree with that needs to show a dyno chart to prove otherwise. These two intakes (RE and K&N Typhoon) make more power due to the sheer volume of air that they are sucking in rather than the temperture of the air, and like I stated previously, at high speeds they will both be sucking in cool air. Only at idle or in traffic will the hot air be an issue as far as limiting power gains is concerned.

man this has been the same question people have been asking for many years...since the renesis has no intake plenum...a short ram should be more sufficient opposed to a drop in type filter...both k&n and the RE are short ram (NOT CAI) intakes...Any one of them should be fine depending on the diameter of the intake pipe..keep in mind that even if the pipe itself is larger than the intake port you will still gain the same amount of air you were supposed to get..only if the intake port is changed to a big bore..

The Problem is that accountants are mixed in with the engineers when making any car. The K&N Filter flows more than the factory, because the factory will not spend the money to make a filter that can flow more and trap more. From what I've seen, both the typhoon and the R.Ext simply replace the air box with a similar air box and fit a conical filter on it.

IMHO, unless the conical filter feeds from the front, the air will flow into the box, swirl around, and then go into the intake. With the drop in it will hit a much larger surface area immediately (as opposed to delayed) and then funnel into the intake.

Typically a drop in does only add 3-4 hp on a Honda or other grocery getter. These cars aren't originally designed as performance vehicles. As such the CAI for them yield much more than a drop in. On Vipers, corvettes, and other performance cars, the intakes are typically designed to maximize ram air and. This is the case here. Additionally I have noticed that this is a VERY rich running car. It doesn't shock me that an improved airflow of any kind would yield so much power.

I'll wait for the Drop in, spend the $50 and then Dyno it. Then I'll post my findings.

I have the RE intake and have noticed some 'seat of the pants' improvements in overall performance. I haven't collected any acceleration data on the car with this in yet. However, the RE sound is definitely louder under full throttle. Not throatier, more 'buzzier' - sounds like a bunch of hornets. When you back off the throttle it goes away.

Ram air intake is still at the development stage. There are a few issues that need to be addressed. I can't reveal too much but I can tell you that the stock intake system is not a ram air one as thought by some people.

1. the primary intake duct is not facing the air stream. It's facing side way.

2. the secondary intake duct although is facing the front, there is a plastic piece blocking it.

http://www.rotaryextreme.com/newarrival/P8080041.JPG

I know the exact reason why it's designed that way. Let's just say to make a ram air intake that works at all time, we might not be able to keep the original price of $360. We might have to abort the project but then we are trying our best to make it happen and keep the same price.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Rotary Extreme
I know the exact reason why it's designed that way.

Chuck,

Are you referring to the length of the intake tract and the VFAD? We know that it is because Mazda are utilising Helmholtz resonant tuning. What doesn't make sense is why the primary intake faces sideways and why the secondary intake is blocked by plastic. Neither appear to be in the best position to suck in large amounts of fresh cold air.

If you can explain the reasoning for that, we'd all love to hear it.

BTW I'm expecting my intake any day now. I'm more excited about it than I am about Christmas!

The length is not the main point. It's the position of the ducts. I can't really explain it until I finish the product or decide to abort the project.

Chuck Huang

Originally posted by Wildcard
Chuck,

Are you referring to the length of the intake tract and the VFAD? We know that it is because Mazda are utilising Helmholtz resonant tuning. What doesn't make sense is why the primary intake faces sideways and why the secondary intake is blocked by plastic. Neither appear to be in the best position to suck in large amounts of fresh cold air.

If you can explain the reasoning for that, we'd all love to hear it.

BTW I'm expecting my intake any day now. I'm more excited about it than I am about Christmas!

Has anyone thought of getting a RE short ram and then getting the K&N filter element? Just a thought

Has anyone tried the SR Motorsports intake?

It looks as cool or cooler than anything I have seen and they are selling stand alone or as part of a performance package.

http://www.srmotorsports.com/RX8_Performance_Intake_Parts.html

no one has posted having it yet
but damn its expensive

looks like an exhaust muffler

It is probably just a metal tube with a cone filter in it.

What is the anticipated whp gain for the ram air in comparison to the short arm intake systems? I am looking to combine a ram air/short arm system with a full header back exhaust and retune the ecu in order to gain the max hp possible. (do not have to pass emissions in the town I have my vehicle registered in) I really just want to get the whp of my rx-8 up to around 250. I think the greddy off road system, in combination with a ram air system and possibly the canzoomer type 2 or 3 would be the correct way to go, but I figure asking here would be a viable option since someone who is working on design of a ram air would be able to give accurate advice.

loving my re intake
quite and cant tell i have a intake during normal driving
but when punched it sounds like giant buzzing bee.

Originally posted by Kel Rx8
loving my re intake
quite and cant tell i have a intake during normal driving
but when punched it sounds like giant buzzing bee.

any idling problems yet like the k &n one had?

Originally posted by HiTMaNN
any idling problems yet like the k &n one had?

Not as much rough idling with the RE Intake. Do a search, this has been widely
talked about

BTW is very disrespectful to take our club logo and amend it like you have!!

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8
Not as much rough idling with the RE Intake. Do a search, this has been widely
talked about

BTW is very disrespectful to take our club logo and amend it like you have!!

You really ought to make your own Rohit, but anyway Racing Beat put a straight thought exhaust and intake and gained 2hp.

The main problem with all these intakes (Rotary Extreme is the best) but compared to stock their all pretty much only for audible purposes.

The reason being is they all are just a metal tube that supposedly increases air velocity but in truth their crap because all of them lack a Helmholtz Resonator. What that does is basically stabilizes the air going inside the combustion chamber. Without it the air is volatile as hell that makes it very hard to tune the car via things that read off the MAF sensor, i.e. Canzoomer.

This isn't a Camaro where can slap on an intake and exhaust and gain 25hp. Mazda didn't skip on high quality stuff. A promising mod for this car seems to be a light flywheel.

Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8

BTW is very disrespectful to take our club logo and amend it like you have!!


SO TRUE

wow all three of you can go to hell... not like it is his where is teh copyright matter of respect umm its the internet.. i changed it aronud it is no way affilated to him

I would buy this intake system for $200 to 260 US..... but....

ok, i like the look of the aluminium cover, but i just dont think it fits in with the rest of the covers.... kinda IMO makes the parts under the hood somewhat messy. although the indivual piece looks great, it stands out too much and kinda looks out of place.
i am waiting to see how the FG cover looks like.

i am going to believe the claimed hp for now... he aren't guilty of manipulatin the dyno until someone proves him otherwise.
so if i like the new covers, i will definately buy 1 (hoping the shipment costs wont be too dear)