The Mazda6 has a 7 speaker system that from Edmunds, got a glaring 9.0 review. (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/77843/page002.html)

However, the Mazda RX-8 does the 6 one better.. it adds two speakers!

Per the MazdaUSA/RX8 site, Bose custom audio with 9 speakers and AudioPilot technology.
I doubt very much that the RX-8 will be under the 6's performance as far as sound quality is concerned, and with two extra speakers (likely tweeters) we should get even better sound. For those of you interested in finding out what the AudioPilot technology is,
click this link. (http://www.bose.co.uk/product/auto/audio_pilot_tech.shtml) It's essentially a system that adjusts the volume and sound according to interior noise. Hopefully pretty useful feature :)

Herc, dude, do you NOT ever sleep??

man, i can tell ya, that technology would only be good in cars with really low cabin noise, as in the autos i drive, the medium bits would deafen the listener if this AutoPilot stuff turns up the volume so you can hear the soft stuff... wow...
pretty neato though.

Followed your link, Herc. That's a pretty impressive crowd to run with that has the AudioPilot technology... Porsche... Maybach...

But it's still a proprietory head unit.. :mad: I need an MP3 player or an MP3 capable changer.. I hope Mazda includes that with it.

Personally, a custum exhaust and a 6-speed will make all the music I need. Nice to hear it will have some quality options available though.

Agreed.. obviously at the track I don't listen to music but I need a good stereo while I'm commuting.. Regular CD option is not good enough at this day and age.

Quick_lude: you can get an MP3 player as an option on the Mazda6.

Thats pretty cool, Edmunds never gives a 9 on cars as inexpensive as the 6. They are pretty critical too, so it must be a decent stock system.

actually, i've looked at some reviews of other cars on Edmunds, and it seems, to me, that the review of the sound system is quite subjective... i've got a Matrix in the driveway (which i never drive :p) and the system there seems to have very weak midtones, great upper registers, and overbearing bass (by which i mean the system will drown out the upper ranges with a buzzing bass thump when i really crank it up, even on a very flat equalizer setting... btw, i did do all the sound board work in my video production class in highschool, so i've got a little experience with sound)... this fellah on Edmunds thinks that this thing doesn't have ENOUGH bass, based on his impressions from some test rap music...

the guy in the 6 was listening to classical, and he thought there was a lot of thump... it could be true, but how bassy is classical music??
the 6's sound system DOES sound great, and the system in my Matrix is CERTAINLY no better than a 7, but what's with the estimation of these systems?? they've got different people with different ears for what's "good" evaluating these cars...
bah, whatever... i'm way off topic. ;)

Not a classical music fan, huh wakeech? There's more true bass in most classical music than you're ever going to find in rap/rock/pop stuff. If he thought there was a lot of thump, then there's probably a lot of thump :)

And as for quietness in the cabin- haven't a number of reviews commented on the quietness of the cabin except for the rotary whine at high revs? I know Automobile said that, as least- it was the last one I've read so it's sticking in my mind. Sounds like maybe we got a great sound system on our hands here...

Thanks for posting that Hercules!

Not a problem folks...

One thing I should point out, is that Edmunds generally listens to Jazz when testing car stereos.

If you have the right music, there is no music that can compare to the soundstage of Jazz to see how accurately music is reproduced. The highs, lows and mids are the most difficult to reproduce properly in Jazz, and thus that's what cars are tested with.

For the 6 to get a 9, it's very reassuring to me.

go to freshalloy.com forums and look up the zcar with that audiopilot crap- lots of problems and horrible sound! not to mention recalls or TSB's for it which eliminates it!

AudioPilot??? NOOOOOO!!! You DO NOT want this in the system. Protest NOW to have Mazda and Bose eighty-six the AudioPilot.

OK, OK, you're probably wondering "why?" The Bose in the Touring 350Zs has this AudioPilot function which CANNOT be turned off unlike the older iterations of Bose volume compensation. Every Touring Z from the factory had/has this insane volume up/down and booming sub from the AudioPilot not knowing what the hell is going on and trying to adjust the system. We complained to Nissan and got them to replace the sub amps in an effort to fix the errors. Guess what Bose/Clarion (the component manufacturer) did? They de-tuned the sub amp so it won't even fire. Those who made the amp switch now have ZERO bass response now. I sh*t you not.

We (Z owners) are not finished with this issue and have gone back to Nissan to fix the system properly, or refund the cash we paid in the upgrade to this worthless system. Hopefully by the time the 8 starts rolling off the line, Bose will have addressed the issue and/or re-introduced a way to turn the AudioPilot completely off. Otherwise, if the Bose system is a stand-alone option, DO NOT ORDER IT!!!

You've been warned. :)

Originally posted by droidekaus
AudioPilot??? NOOOOOO!!! You DO NOT want this in the system. Protest NOW to have Mazda and Bose eighty-six the AudioPilot.

OK, OK, you're probably wondering "why?" The Bose in the Touring 350Zs has this AudioPilot function which CANNOT be turned off unlike the older iterations of Bose volume compensation. Every Touring Z from the factory had/has this insane volume up/down and booming sub from the AudioPilot not knowing what the hell is going on and trying to adjust the system. We complained to Nissan and got them to replace the sub amps in an effort to fix the errors. Guess what Bose/Clarion (the component manufacturer) did? They de-tuned the sub amp so it won't even fire. Those who made the amp switch now have ZERO bass response now. I sh*t you not.

We (Z owners) are not finished with this issue and have gone back to Nissan to fix the system properly, or refund the cash we paid in the upgrade to this worthless system. Hopefully by the time the 8 starts rolling off the line, Bose will have addressed the issue and/or re-introduced a way to turn the AudioPilot completely off. Otherwise, if the Bose system is a stand-alone option, DO NOT ORDER IT!!!

You've been warned. :)
I don't think the Z got as good a rating on the stereo anyways.. but hopefully Mazda will realize that AudioPilot does have issues and will make it defeatable :)

Originally posted by Hercules

I don't think the Z got as good a rating on the stereo anyways.. but hopefully Mazda will realize that AudioPilot does have issues and will make it defeatable :)

It didn't get a good rating because it's an absolute POS. No, seriously. WORST STEREO SYSTEM EVER! If I could have gotten factory, heated leather any way other than bundled with the Blose, I would have.

Originally posted by droidekaus


It didn't get a good rating because it's an absolute POS. No, seriously. WORST STEREO SYSTEM EVER! If I could have gotten factory, heated leather any way other than bundled with the Blose, I would have.

Droidekaus,

You have me very scared...
I expect a great sound system... I do not want to "down grade" and get fewer speakers...

roachman

I expect a great sound system... I do not want to "down grade" and get fewer speakers...

I'm sure the aftermarket will come up with something if the system is that bad in the 8, but I'm confident that it won't be that bad. Alot of people out there probably don't want to have to upgrade their stereos, but I've seen some head units lately (as well as some other stereo components) that I've fallen in love with and I wouldn't mind spending some extra cash upgrading the stereo in my RX-8 if the stock one turns out to be trash. I doubt it will, though.

Originally posted by rxtreme
I'm sure the aftermarket will come up with something if the system is that bad in the 8, but I'm confident that it won't be that bad. I'm not. :( One would think the 350Z with "premium" Bose stereo would sound good. From everything I've read it's horrible. Mazda is going to put a Bose system in the RX-8. So I don't have my hopes up.

Mazda should coax Klipsch into making some mobile audio for their cars. :D

Originally posted by BryanH
I'm not. :( One would think the 350Z with "premium" Bose stereo would sound good. From everything I've read it's horrible. Mazda is going to put a Bose system in the RX-8. So I don't have my hopes up.

Mazda should coax Klipsch into making some mobile audio for their cars. :D Well keep in mind some Bose systems sound good, and some terrible. For example in my friend's Audi A4 3.0, the Bose is crisp and clean and sounds really nice.

When I drove the Mazda6, the stereo there too was brilliant. Keep in mind that the A4 only got a 7.0 (or something) rating from Edmunds, and the Mazda6 got a 9 for their stereos.

If the RX-8 has a variation of what the Mazda6 has, only with two more tweeters, I don't see how it can possibly sound bad :)

I do hope you're right. I haven't heard a good Bose system yet though. I'll try to keep an open mind. ;)

Originally posted by BryanH
...I haven't heard a good Bose system yet though... Me neither.

---jps

It is kind of sad. It used to be that when you heard the name bose you thought of high quality sound systems. Now it seems that it is a joke. Half the time it is terrible quality.

Originally posted by Elara
Not a classical music fan, huh wakeech? There's more true bass in most classical music than you're ever going to find in rap/rock/pop stuff.


nono, i DO like nearly ALL forms of acoustic music (between classical european (BAROQUE BABY!! Bach's my idol), jazz (bebop's my fav), and flamenco guitar, there's a lot to love), it's just what i was observing what the reviewers were doing...
um, other than organ music, timpanis, the bass (duh), and ummmm, tubas there aren't many reeeally bassy components in acoustic music when compared with electronically generated music... which i also love dearly (my list of favourite artists goes on and on...) :)
i agree though, that acoustic music really makes it easy to hear the strengths and weaknesses in a sound system...

I hope I'm wrong, but I just want to get this info out there with my previous post...

I too did not want some kid tearing apart my new car to install an aftermarket system, so I opted for the Touring trimline in the Z to avoid this. The Bose in my previous CL-S was more than decent and I was quite pleased with the system. When Nissan announced the 240w system in the Z I thought I couldn't go wrong. I was more than wrong. It is single-handedly one of the worst stock stereo system blunders in automotive history.

Things that have to be considered with the Bose in the RX-8 are whether the AudioPilot (the root of all evil) can be completely disabled, and where exactly the AudioPilot mic placement is in the cabin. In the Z's case, it's in the steering column facing downward. If you have not ridden in a Z, it's a fairly loud car with a throaty exhaust (not modded GT loud), significant engine/drivetrain noise and some road noise when rolling on 18s with low-profile tires. With the mic in position where it is, I can't see how it could possibly figure out what's going on in the cabin noise-wise when it's CONSTANTLY bombarded with engine and drivetrain noise. Roll down the windows in the summer and it's all over. The volume goes into a constant loop of up/down, up/down, up/down.

i dont understand

I have never had any type of bad sound from the 1 BOSE car sysytem that I have heard. But that was from a long time ago. I don't know much about this AudioPilot or whatever it is. But from what I read on this tread that it adjusts the sound based on other noises in the car. A couple of thoughts. 1st I don't like things that adjust inside the car automatically, but that said; 2nd I think that the RX-8 will be a quieter car than the 350Z, and 3rd they have been putting BOSE systems in RX-7's for a long time.

I don't think that just because the stereo will be Bose that it be bad. Many people on FreshAlloy complained about the Bose in the G35, and I didn't think it was bad at all. I guess it's all in what you are used too. The worst things about the Bose system are that it's a $900 option (about 3X what it's worth) and that the controls are not intuitive.

Hopefully Mazda will work more closely with Bose and make sure they get a more user-friendly head unit.

More important to me though is that the head unit have MP3 capablity. I would take a single disk w/ MP3 over a six disk changer any day. You can fit more music coded as MP3's on one disk than you can on six regular CD's. Obviously the best option would be a six-disk in-dash CD changer with MP3 functionality.

Couldn't you just find the leads to the microphone and clip them? My guess would be that if the system compensates based on feedback from the microphone and doesn't get anything then it should no do anything to the volume.

Otherwise what happens if the mic goes out a few years down the road? Do you have to go back to Bose for a replacement? That would be a pain, assuming you could even find one.

Originally posted by Fëakhelek
Couldn't you just find the leads to the microphone and clip them? My guess would be that if the system compensates based on feedback from the microphone and doesn't get anything then it should no do anything to the volume.

Otherwise what happens if the mic goes out a few years down the road? Do you have to go back to Bose for a replacement? That would be a pain, assuming you could even find one.

I wish it was that simple. I have already disconnected the mic three times during various experimentation. When you do this the system sounds 100 times better for about 2-3 minutes until the HU starts to freak out and cause extreme volume surges.

Remember that a Bose system is based on each set of speakers having their own amps. The AudioPilot mic is running to the sub amp as it's first stop on the way to the HU. It is then tied into every other amp in the system until it finally resolves at the HU. When the HU does not see a signal coming from the mic, it freaks out. So no, it's not a simple matter of disconnecting the mic.

We've had EEs on the Z board even try and trick the mic signal input to the HU by disconnecting it and soldering low output resistors or capacitors or whatever (I can't remember) into the circuit to make the HU think it was getting a null signal and that didn't even work.

If the AudioPilot problems cannot be resolved, I think that Bose/Nissan will have to start replacing HUs with the AP completely removed, and that could become a fairly costly operation.

I wonder if the Rx-8 will have the same "modular audio system" that the 6 has in the Mazda magazine. For anybody that has not heard about this it basically means that a cd changer, tape, single cd and possibly an mp3 can be installed just by plugging them in behind the facia.

Originally posted by droidekaus


I wish it was that simple. I have already disconnected the mic three times during various experimentation. When you do this the system sounds 100 times better for about 2-3 minutes until the HU starts to freak out and cause extreme volume surges.

Remember that a Bose system is based on each set of speakers having their own amps. The AudioPilot mic is running to the sub amp as it's first stop on the way to the HU. It is then tied into every other amp in the system until it finally resolves at the HU. When the HU does not see a signal coming from the mic, it freaks out. So no, it's not a simple matter of disconnecting the mic.

We've had EEs on the Z board even try and trick the mic signal input to the HU by disconnecting it and soldering low output resistors or capacitors or whatever (I can't remember) into the circuit to make the HU think it was getting a null signal and that didn't even work.

If the AudioPilot problems cannot be resolved, I think that Bose/Nissan will have to start replacing HUs with the AP completely removed, and that could become a fairly costly operation.

This could be a huge issue. This is exactly what the mazdausa sight says we are getting. I want the best stereo system, but not if all this crap happens. I hope we solve this before I give the specifications for my RX-8.

Boowana, maybe you can look into this or maybe some of the guys going to NASIS show can asked Mazda if they have heard of the problems with this system in the Z...

:confused:

Roachman

Just an opinion but...

I hope Mazda just puts in a decent CD/radio head unit with pre-amp outs. It looks like it would be pretty difficult to replace with something else, since it integrates with the console as it does.

I never really cared much for Bose, as their main philosophy has been to "force" some pretty mundane speakers to sound convincing, via electronics and acoustical trickery, and to me, this is what they sound like.

I'm hoping the speaker cutouts and spaces are of a decent size, volume, and depth, so I can install some good quality components instead. The Bose should be kept as an option for those who disagree with me!

I hate Factory stereos.

Ive listened to several and they just dont have the quality and range you get from aftermarket.

In my cougar the stereo had the variable volume change and it was more annoyinng than effective. I swapped it out for a Sony headunit in no time.

I can only hope there is an option to downgrade the system.

Originally posted by Schills
I have never had any type of bad sound from the 1 BOSE car sysytem that I have heard. But that was from a long time ago. I don't know much about this AudioPilot or whatever it is. But from what I read on this tread that it adjusts the sound based on other noises in the car. A couple of thoughts. 1st I don't like things that adjust inside the car automatically, but that said; 2nd I think that the RX-8 will be a quieter car than the 350Z, and 3rd they have been putting BOSE systems in RX-7's for a long time. That's why we see so many BOSE systems. More people than not are satisfied with the BOSE systems. Those of us who want "more", normally want different "more". So since there is no clear upgrade path, it is impractical for a car company to do anything other than let each "audiophile" do his own thing. Save for an occasional special edition, of course.

But for any of us who want even a little more than a regular factory stereo, a Bose setup is rarely a significant step up, especially considering what that "upgrade" costs (especially since you get "stuck" with it if you get certain "option packages" in order to get something else). It normally includes more "frills" than actual upgrades in volume, SQ, or range.

The big problem with Bose setups (for those of us just looking to get some good sound) is that it is very very difficult to incorporate some of the factory Bose system with aftermarket items. It's not impossible, but doing something like using the Bose head unit to power aftermarket amps and speakers can be quite tricky. But if you get something like that plastic tube sub from the FD, replacing amps and speakers becomes a big priority. And since most Bose head units are no more special than the speakers you are replacing, it's a simple decision to upgrade everything, instead of messing with trying to get things to work together.

The extra problem with the RX8 is that it appears that the factory head unit is incorporated with the climate controls (steering wheel controls can be incorporated with most aftermarket heads with little effort).

---jps

One thing that I have ALWAYS liked about the RX-7's sound systems is that they have always sounded great, to me. If the Mazda 6 received a 9 rating than that is wondermous. If classical music was played, which is the toughest music to reproduce acurately because of all the tonal qualities of the instruments working together and seperately, and the 6's sound system handled them with ease, then the 8's should be equally as good or better. I listened to the acoustic waveguide system in an FD and that was a fantastic Bose product IMO. But I have a feeling tha Mazda will not go that route again, because the waveguides were too bulky. I agree with one poster who said that the Z was loud and the RX-8 would be quieter. In one of my previous posts, I eluded to the fact that the Z's interior contained vast amounts of cheap hard plastic, in which sound waves tend to bounce off instead of being absorbed versus other interior padding, foams, higher quality denser plastics, etc. Mazda's interior will be quieter because the rotary is quiter, the drivetrain is better isolated, the interior fit and furnishings are of higher quality and doesn't Bose tailor it's systems to a specific model car? But if Mazda does decide to use the Audiopilot from Bose, rest assured that I will give it a complete work over during the test drive. Oh yeah to the poster who likes Bach, I plan to play his Partita#3 for solo violin. If the Bose system can handle that, than it IS the S***t:cool:

Has anyone ever heard the Mark Levinson or Nakamichi stereos from in the Lexus? I'm curious how those sound..
Myself if the stereo in the RX-8 is totally proprietory and hard to alter, that might sway me away from the car. I hate anyone forcing things onto me, especially if I'm making a $40K+ Cnd committment in a vehicle.. Shouldn't I have the option to customize or delete if I'm spending that much cash on a car? Why make things so hard for the consumer? After all they want our business, not the other way around... :confused:

I read in a magazine somewhere that the Mark Levinson stereo was excellent. (sorry i can't remember the details) They liked it more than the actual car!

I'm big into audio, and probably the best factory installed audio, and quite possibly the best mobile sound system available, even aftermarket, can be found in the Outback H6-3.0 VDC Wagon. The Outback flagship has the first ever McIntosh mobile audio system installed in it (I think they started putting them in 2 years ago but I might be mistaken).

McIntosh used the Outback to test their mobile potential. A typical McIntosh setup for use at home will set you back more than $20,000US, and can easily reach costs higher than an RX-8!

I had the Nakamichi system in my Lexus RX300 and it was quite good. In comparison the BOSE system in some G35s and Audis I've driven was pretty crap. The BOSE system in my MDX is really serious crap. The Mark Levinson in the LS430 and SC430 I've tested a few times was good (FM only, didn't have a CD with me), as is the basic unbranded system in my IS300.

I have never heard any stock car system that could hold a candle to semi-decent home hifi as the environmental conditions are so tough. At home I am a bit of an audiophile with a (very carefully selected) system from Linn and Naim Audio, but I have no clue about car stereos except how it sounds.

Has anyone ever tried to swap out one of these integrated head units? The NSX has a Bose system, and it is very expensive to replace. You have to purchase a new dash molding piece that can be produced for around $300. That's the cheapest I've seen so far. I really hope there is another radio option that's easy to swap, otherwise I'm not getting this car.

the 6 is a beautiful product. I sat in it the other day at the dealership and the leather is beautiful, its actually real, unlike the highgrade 1989 Volvo vinyl in BMW's (and the g35, freking dissapointment). Every aspect of it is great comfy and quality, sound system looks probably as good as it sounds, and 9.0 from Edmunds sounds great.

I aint tryin to bash BMW's or G35's, but seriously, the leather is like vinyl (it might even be) and in the BMW, xenons and floor mats are 3000 luxury pakages
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Also, Lexus sound systems are probably the best stock systems around, and the mark levinsons are beyond superb lol. A home mark levinson can be in the huge ranges often times 100 grand or more. Also, Bose systems (integrated) arent that tough, the only problem is the time it takes to take one out, each speaker has its own miniature pre-amp/amp. I plan on a fully custom install, which is easy enough with an integrated headunit, the biggest bucks will come from the manhours required to dissassemble all that bose junk, which is better than required by most normal peopple, so im glad its in the 8, just for marketing, and listenining before the install.
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How are you going to change the HU? It looks totally integrated. :mad:

Those usually plug into either 1 or both DIN units and can be pulled right out, or removed in a slightly more complicated fashion.
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Originally posted by P00Man
Those usually plug into either 1 or both DIN units and can be pulled right out, or removed in a slightly more complicated fashion.
Have you even SEEN what the radio/dash looks like? :confused: It will NOT be easy and I have done my share of full stereo installs..

This DOES look like it might be a little more complicated, but the is300 has an integrated HU and thermals and can be (maybe not easily) replaced.
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The real problem to replacing the head unit is how are you going to put it in the dash without looking like total crap. You're going to need to customize some sort of dash panel insert to cover the hole. What materials will be used (fiberglass, plastic, etc.). hopefully some company will design one, but that could cost $100-500 depending on how much of the dash needs to be reintegrated. Then, how will you make it match. The dash looks to be a very shiny, reflective black. If you do it yourself, your best bet would be some high quality automotive paint with the clear coat. I know if you're really into stereo customization it's just a matter of money, but for the average person it won't be that easy.

Originally posted by Jud
The real problem to replacing the head unit is how are you going to put it in the dash without looking like total crap. You're going to need to customize some sort of dash panel insert to cover the hole. What materials will be used (fiberglass, plastic, etc.). hopefully some company will design one, but that could cost $100-500 depending on how much of the dash needs to be reintegrated. Then, how will you make it match. The dash looks to be a very shiny, reflective black. If you do it yourself, your best bet would be some high quality automotive paint with the clear coat. I know if you're really into stereo customization it's just a matter of money, but for the average person it won't be that easy.
Exactly. I'm not worried about the mechanical hookups, it's the outside look/shape of the whole damn thing that has me very concerned. It looks VERY hard to customize.. sigh.. :(
This Bose stereo better be very good, otherwise I might have to look into another car. :(

Btw, I saw pics on the 350Z forum of the stock Bose speakers.. They are not even close to my CDT Audio Cambrias.. They look like cheap aftermarket speakers. :(

Quicklude, I think the best bet you got is to go down to the Mazda dealer and check out the 6 with a Bose in it..

Not really because it seems that every car with a BOSE stereo is different.. depending on setup and its features. I just hope someone comes up with an aftermarket dash solution by spring 2004.. :D

I think the best bet is to hope that audiopilot junk can be turned off. As long as it doesn't get in the way, you can add in an equalizer, signal processor, crossover, whatever you gotta do to get your sound.;)

Originally posted by Jud
I think the best bet is to hope that audiopilot junk can be turned off. ...

I have a friend at work who just bought a G35 coupe last december and his can be easily turned off and on.

I hope that it's the same in the RX-8!

;)

I also went to test drive a Mazda 6 this last weekend and it was very very nice! I drove the 4 cylinder (I'm concerned about fuel economy ;) ) I'm sure v6 has much better acceleration, which I know I would prefer, maybe I'll go back and try it later - but my only disappointment was that the sun visors seemed a little weak when compared to therest of the wonderful interier (which is as good as my wife's Passat)

FWIW, I drove a fully-loaded Mazda 6 for a couple of days last week, and found the Bose system pretty impressive. It had an automatic volume adjustment feature, but it was not called AudioTrack. It could be enabled at one of three levels, or disabled altogether.

It appeared to base its volume increments purely on vehicle speed - every time I hit 45mph there was a slight but distinct increase in the volume, and it dropped back down again when I slowed for the next light.

Not as sophisticated as a system that detects the interior sound levels, but by the sounds of it, one that is probably more reliable and useful than AudioTrack.

OK, according to the press kit, the Standard audio has the same speed-sensitive auto-levelling control as the Mazda 6 system I described above, while the Premium (Bose) system has AudioPilot.