2009 MAZDA RX-8: FURTHER EVOLUTION FOR THE ROTARY REVOLUTION

Launched in 2003, the Mazda RX-8 hit the global market with a serious bang. The RX-8 has won more than 50 global awards since its release including 2003 RJC Car of the Year in Japan Australia's Wheels magazine's Car of the Year for 2003, 2003 International Engine of the Year, 2004 Singapore Car of the Year, the 2004 U.S. Best Sports Car and UK Car of the Year 2004. It was also named on Car and Driver magazine's Ten Best list for 2004, 2005, and 2006. All together, Mazda has sold nearly 167,000 RX-8s around the world.
For 2009, Mazda will further the evolution of the four-door, four-seater sports coupe, giving RX-8 a refreshed exterior and interior design, enhanced performance and a new R3 sport package for the ultimate driving enthusiast.
Unchanged is the core of the RX-8 – a high-powered, lightweight and perfectly balanced machine powered by the world-renowned twin-rotor RENESIS rotary engine.
“Dating back to the Cosmo Sport released in 1967, every sports car ever developed by Mazda has had the same fundamental mission – to provide car lovers with a vehicle that’s fun-to-drive, exciting to look at and easy to own,” said Tetsu Nakazawa, Mazda North American Operations’ RX-8 vehicle line manager. “The 2009 RX-8 embodies that mission, conveying the unique and distinctive Mazda brand DNA to the fullest.”
To enhance the highly successful RX-8, Mazda engineers focused on innovation in three key areas for the 2009 RX-8: styling, performance and packaging. “The enhancements made to RX-8’s exterior, interior, packaging and performance takes it to a whole new level of visual and driving excitement,” remarked Nakazawa.

STYLING INNOVATION – REFRESHED DESIGN CUES PROVIDE “HIGH-QUALITY” DYNAMISM
RX-8 was designed with an athletically sculpted exterior that provides a sense of originality that’s unrivaled in the marketplace today. For 2009, RX-8 receives design enhancements that are meant to freshen the styling and give RX-8 a new look, without impairing the basic design theme. Refinements for the 2009 model year include restyled front and rear bumpers and front fascia; sporty, high quality finish front and rear
headlamps; and larger exhaust pipes (now measuring 90 mm across). The 2009 RX-8 also offers a new five-spoke wheel design featuring a symbolic and sporty design reminiscent of the rotary engine, with different arrangements for each wheel size.
Taut muscular lines give RX-8 the liberating look of an athlete in motion. The muscular styling maintains classic sports car proportions while adding a Zoom-Zoom edge that is unmistakably Mazda.
The RX-8’s unique “freestyle” four-door design is proof that a true sports car does not need to sacrifice space or convenience for performance. The advanced design of the rear-hinged rear doors, provides a large door opening, allowing adult-sized passengers to easily enter and exit the vehicle. This design is also advantageous when securing a baby or a small child in the back seat. With a spacious rear seat area providing ample passenger room for four full-size adults, and enough trunk space for a weekend’s worth of luggage, this sports car proves its versatility.
The RX-8’s exterior styling presents a genuine sports car form, while the interior boasts a comfortable and intelligently designed cabin. Minor enhancements were made for the 2009 RX-8 to provide a simple and functional interior design that supports driving pleasure. The center IP shape was redesigned to give a feeling of dynamic movement, a variable red-zone was added to the tachometer that will rise as the engine comes to operating temperature and a new steering wheel and redesigned front and rear seats are also added.
An extremely low cabin floor allows the seats to be mounted low in the chassis, which, along with a low instrument cluster and hood, allows a low center of gravity and allows outstanding occupant visibility. Mazda designers concentrated on the shape of the front seat backs and the rear seat cushions to ensure adequate rear-seat knee room. Front seat slide-rails are positioned to allow maximum leg room for rear-seat passengers.
The rotary design element is incorporated through the interior of the RX-8 in creative ways, appearing in the seats. The stylish cabin also evokes a sense of luxury and high-end quality. Mazda’s design team examined every aspect and component of the interior and has created an elegant, driver-centric atmosphere. Through the use of advanced ergonomic research, Mazda engineers determined that improper seating posture is a major cause of driver fatigue and built in optimum support in the front seats to help offset discomfort. In addition, the color of the RX-8’s instrument cluster was developed to reduce eye fatigue and strain.

PERFORMANCE INNOVATION – MORE SPORTS CAR DRIVING PLEASURE
Through-and-through, the RX-8 is a pure sports car that gives the driver an exciting and dynamic experience. For 2009, engineers improved RX-8 body rigidity through the addition of structural reinforcements, by adding a trapezoidal strut tower bar and enhancing the local rigidity of the front suspension tower areas. Also, the rear suspension geometry has been reconfigured for better handling performance and driveshaft rigidity is improved, lowering NVH levels and improving performance.
In addition, the differential gear ratio on manual transmission-equipped cars is lowered from 4.444 to 4.777 for improved off-the-line performance. While minimal, these performance changes give RX-8 increased acceleration and performance, as well as even greater responsiveness to the accelerator pedal – always a rotary-engine and
RX-8 hallmark.
To achieve this sophisticated dynamic, Mazda utilizes the advanced RENESIS (Rotary Engine genesis – or rebirth of the rotary engine) engine. The Mazda RX-8 remains the only mass-produced rotary-powered passenger car in the world. While exhibiting unusually high power output for a naturally aspirated engine, RENESIS outstrips comparable reciprocating engines in terms of acceleration, the feeling of power in reserve and quick response.
The 2009 Mazda RX-8 is available as either a 232-horsepower model fitted with a six-speed manual transmission, or a 212-horsepower model fitted with a six-speed Sport A/T automatic with steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters for a Formula 1-style driving experience.
By turning a triangular rotor in a cocoon-shaped combustion chamber, the
RX-8’s rotary engine efficiently performs the four processes of intake, compression, combustion and exhaust. The RENESIS engine is remarkably smooth and high revving — all the way to 9,000 rpm (7,500 rpm on Sport A/T–equipped models) — and offers a smaller engine footprint than traditional internal combustion engines (some 60 percent smaller and lighter than a comparably powered V-6, and 40 percent smaller and lighter than a four-cylinder). In fact, the packaging and styling that define the RX-8 would not have been possible had Mazda engineers chosen a conventional piston engine.
Improving upon 40 years of rotary designs, the RENESIS engine features side intake and exhaust ports with nearly 30 percent more intake port and twice as much exhaust port than its predecessors. The efficiencies gained through shortening intake/exhaust overlapping period and using the larger intake and exhaust ports in delivering world-class performance.
The RX-8’s normally aspirated 1.3-liter engine might appear diminutive to the untrained eye when compared to large-displacement V-8s or heavyweight V-10s or V-12s. However, through the incredible efficiencies of a rotary powerplant, an advanced three-stage intake system and an electronic throttle, the RENESIS engine delivers smooth, linear power on a grand scale.
The RX-8 uses an aluminum double-wishbone front suspension, reducing unsprung weight over the use of steel components. By mounting the upper and lower arms on a highly rigid sub-frame, the long arms ensure linear alignment changes throughout the jounce and rebound of the front wheels. All corners are fitted with mono-tube gas-filled shock absorbers designed with large-diameter internal pistons and valving, which offer excellent road feedback and a smooth ride.
An electric rack-and-pinion power-steering system transmits just the right amount of road information back to the driver. Mazda engineers have chosen to pursue their own path by using an electric motor for steering assistance rather than a conventional power-steering pump. The electric motor provides additional assistance at low speeds to ease parking and reduces steering assistance at higher speeds to provide greater road feel, responsiveness and feedback. And, in keeping with the rest of the development on RX-8, it is far lighter and easier to package than a conventional power-steering rack.

PACKIGING INNOVATIONS – ULTIMATE PERFORMANCE RX-8 R3
To cater to the driving-conscious enthusiast, the 2009 RX-8 will offer a new R3 sport package. Providing the very best in rotary-powered motoring, the R3 harkens back to the R1 and R2 packages offered on the mighty third-generation RX-7, and adds a sport-tuned suspension with Bilstein shock absorbers and front suspension crossmembers filled with urethane foam. Filling the crossmembers makes for a smoother ride, minimized NVH and greater suspension control.
On the visual side of the package, a rear spoiler, side sills, fog lights and sporty front bumper are added to give an aggressive appearance, along with 19-inch forged aluminum-alloy wheels with high performance tires. Inside, the R3 adds a 300-watt Bose® audio system with Centerpoint® surround sound and AudioPilot® noise compensation technology, Bluetooth hands-free phone system, front Recaro sport seats with leather side bolsters, leather-wrapped parking brake handle and Mazda advanced keyless entry and start system.
Three other trim levels are also offered including: a Sport trim, a Touring trim (adds HID headlights, fog lamps, auto dimming mirror with Homelink® and 6-disc auto changer on top of the Sport trim features and DSC; add 18-inch wheels, a limited-slip differential, sport-tuned suspension and larger front disc brakes to these items for A/T cars, and Bose® audio system, moonroof, SIRIUS satellite radio are offered as the package option), and a Grand Touring trim (on top of the Touring trim features, adds automatic air conditioner, Bluetooth
hands-free phone system, Bose® audio system auto headlight, rain sensing wiper, power-adjustable driver’s seat with lumbar support and memory function, leather seating surfaces — heated front seats— and heated outside mirrors and Mazda Advanced Keyless Entry & Start system. A DVD-driven satellite-navigation unit is available as a stand-alone option and uses a single DVD for mapping the entire United States and portions of Canada. Additionally, a moon roof and SIRIUS satellite radio are offered as an package option.)
All Mazdas come with a roadside assistance program. With a call to a toll-free number, owners can access roadside assistance 24 hours a day, 365 days a year throughout the United States and Canada. In addition, a comprehensive three-year/36,000-mile warranty covers every part on the vehicle except those subject to normal wear. Also, all models receive a five-year/60,000 mile powertrain warranty and a five-year/unlimited-mileage corrosion warranty.

SUPERIOR SAFETY
When designing the RX-8, safety was given as much of a priority as was performance. For Mazda, the safety process incorporates both accident avoidance and accident protection. In effect, this approach to safety means the RX-8 can help the driver avoid various dangers and protect occupants in the unfortunate event of a collision. In rollover tests performed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), the RX-8 achieved an impressive five-star rating.
Mazda engineers integrated numerous active and passive safety elements throughout the car. Active safety features, which require input from the driver, include the use of large ABS-equipped disc brakes on all wheels as well as precise steering and suspension systems. Dynamic Stability Control (available on Sport models with Performance package, standard on Touring and Grand Touring) delivers a superior level of handling that can be disabled when driving and road conditions allow safe operation.
Passive systems, or those that take effect automatically without the driver’s involvement, also are present throughout the RX-8. Despite the absence of a center B-pillar, the RX-8 has an exceptionally rigid body, accomplished through the use of the vertical pillars built in the rear doors and a series of locking pins, which hold the doors together and bind each door directly into the roof and floor. Integrating the frame components helps dissipate crash energy through the vehicle’s structure.
Other standard passive systems on the RX-8 include front airbags, seat-mounted side-impact airbags and side-curtain airbags. Additionally, the front end and engine bay have ample crumple zones, the front seats are designed to reduce whiplash injuries, the brake pedal is designed to break away in the event of a collision of sufficient force to protect feet and legs and all four seating positions are fitted with three-point seatbelts. Even pedestrian protection was considered, as the RX-8 is fitted with Mazda’s "shock-cone" hood design that yields more to the impact of a pedestrian onto the hood than a standard design, yet is strong enough to not deform in normal use.
Headquartered in Irvine, California, Mazda North American Operations oversees the sales, marketing, parts and customer service support of Mazda vehicles in the United States, Canada and Mexico through nearly 900 dealers. Operations in Canada are managed by Mazda Canada, Inc., located in Ontario, Canada, and in Mexico by Mazda Motor de Mexico in Mexico City.

The 2009 face-lifted looks fine. However, I prefer more performance upgrades such as FI system for the current RX8 owners. Just my 2 cents...

a body kit is not going to save this car...

Thx Boo. We posted this awhile back in the other thread.

Hey sfred, nice use of my 8 in your sig. I dig it.

They do claim quicker acceleration off the line with the new gear ratios so i will test drive one to see how it feels, but other than that, previous posters are right,...just basically slapping on a body kit isn't going to do anything for this car. They could have at least given the engine DI to improve the MPG a little.

I guess they probably would have, if giving it DI was that simple.

Seal.

...Hey sfred, nice use of my 8 in your sig. I dig it.


Yes. I download it from this forum. It almost looks generic stock photo to any RX8 in V. red, except the yellow fog light. I notice that you tinted your all windows. I did the same except darker on the rear windows.

a simple facelift is not going to save this car
Its too little too late :(
maybe Mazda will learn from their mistakes

Umm guys I think maybe i am crazy but the RX8 has been a pretty good hit. Sold extremely well at least so far as I have heard.

It has been profitable enough for them to justify its long running period..

Mazda is the only ford company in the red, I suspect they know how to do business...

Remember the loved RX7 had only a 3 year run here because of how little profit it turned.

Umm guys I think maybe i am crazy but the RX8 has been a pretty good hit. Sold extremely well at least so far as I have heard.

It has been profitable enough for them to justify its long running period..

Mazda is the only ford company in the red, I suspect they know how to do business...

In the black you mean? Or an i missing something?

Umm guys I think maybe i am crazy but the RX8 has been a pretty good hit. Sold extremely well at least so far as I have heard.

It has been profitable enough for them to justify its long running period..

Mazda is the only ford company in the red, I suspect they know how to do business...

i think the rx-8 is one of mazda's least sold cars... and generally you wanna be in the black for a successful business...

The only thing that catches me is the drive change. I dont think mazda's trying to change the car so much that it will become their best seller (to those who keep saying this wont save the car). They want it to sell a bit better the next few years while they prepare to release the 16x powered car.

agreed...

Why is everyone predicting doom for the RX8? Ok, more power would've been nice, but I think the updated body looks great and will bring new buyers into the showrooms.

i think the rx-8 is one of mazda's least sold cars... and generally you wanna be in the black for a successful business...

The only thing that catches me is the drive change. I dont think mazda's trying to change the car so much that it will become their best seller (to those who keep saying this wont save the car). They want it to sell a bit better the next few years while they prepare to release the 16x powered car.

Alot of people are hoping the same thing

The 2009 RX-8 comes with more adjectives.

Yes. I download it from this forum. It almost looks generic stock photo to any RX8 in V. red, except the yellow fog light. I notice that you tinted your all windows. I did the same except darker on the rear windows.

Thx bro. Though she's not really tinted yet.

It appears that the GT package gets auto climate control and headlights. Call me fickle, but I think that's a big plus. I don't care much for the redesigned front and rear, but auto AC and lights should have been standard on day 1.

i think the rx-8 is one of mazda's least sold cars... and generally you wanna be in the black for a successful business...



I bet Mitsubishit sold less EVO than the base Lancer or Outlander. Subaru sells less STi than Outbacks and Impreza. BMW's M total sale is minute compared to 3-series or X5s.
Uhm... hate to break it to you, but this is the case with hallow cars.

I think the rx-8 global sale is healthy. RoW likes the car alot.... just the general automatic straight line big engine NASCAR loving Americans do not know how to appreciate it.
It doesn't cost Mazda a whole lot for the refresh. All the tooling of the machine is done and likely paid up for in sales. Although the rotary is hand assembled...

I bet Mitsubishit sold less EVO than the base Lancer or Outlander. Subaru sells less STi than Outbacks and Impreza. BMW's M total sale is minute compared to 3-series or X5s.
Uhm... hate to break it to you, but this is the case with hallow cars.

I wasnt bashing the car or anything... if you read the quote I used in my post it's directed at the comment saying it was a hit and sold very well (basically). In it's class it probably didnt sell as well as other cars... just like the evo sells less than the sti (I believe). I cant really attest for foreign markets but as far as I know the 8 didnt do very well in the states. I wish it had sold better, it honestly should have but as you said, america has a slightly different perspective on speed.

america has a slightly different perspective on speed.

Which sucks :tear:

Don't get me wrong getting shoved back in your seat off a line is fun, but so is getting hugged by your seat around turns.

Welp, here we go again. Another MY of all show and no go. At least they finally added auto A/C and auto sensing wipers. Only took 5 years. And maybe with the more aggressive gear ratio the car will finally be able to reach 60 in 6 seconds. I wonder if that and the new steering wheel can be retrofitted...

As I go over the new facelifted RX8, I still like to the original RX8 design a bit more because the design co-ordinated with rotary shaped along with exterior and interior. Besides, the 2009 Nissan GTR design is somewhat similar to RX8 original design, especially side fender vents. Also, the new GTR has a carbon composited shaft as well. Seating for four...and so on. Can Mazda sue Nissan for the design? Just kidding...

I guess Mazda isn't planning on dual clutch transmission like Mitsubishi and Nissan. :(

a body kit is not going to save this car...…from being one of the most adored, beloved and praised cars in automotive journalism? I think only Porsches and BMW 3-series consistently get as many rave reviews.

a simple facelift is not going to save this car
Its too little too late :(
maybe Mazda will learn from their mistakes Are you kidding me!? It's already one of the best cars out there. The new "Sports Car International" considers it one of the five best handling cars, along with the Porsche Cayman, Nissan Nismo 350Z, Audi R8 and Lotus Elise.

Mistakes my ass.

:rolleyes:

…from being one of the most adored, beloved and praised cars in automotive journalism? I think only Porsches and BMW 3-series consistently get as many rave reviews.

dude. cmon. it's gotten great reviews in comparison tests, and is liked as an overall package...but no review adores its styling, it is far from beloved for it's lack of torque in comparison to its direct competitors and is certainly not praised for its lack of factory updates since its introduction. porsche has been, and will continue to be a benchmark for sports car performance and packaging, as is BMW's 3 in the sports sedan segment. the rx8 was always an outlier and never really expected to meet widespread acceptance by the market. appreciation, maybe, but not acceptance as far as sales go. i love my car as much as most people on this forum, but our vehicles are not one of the most adored, beloved and praised cars in automotive journalism. hyperbole becomes you.

Maybe mazda would at least be able to lure potential car shoppers into the showroom to get a look at the 8 if they would actually include it in their commercials. Just a thought.

..."Sports Car International" considers it one of the five best handling cars, along with the Porsche Cayman, Nissan Nismo 350Z, Audi R8 and Lotus Elise...

Any link to this article?

^^^^^^^^

Are you kidding me!? It's already one of the best cars out there. The new "Sports Car International" considers it one of the five best handling cars, along with the Porsche Cayman, Nissan Nismo 350Z, Audi R8 and Lotus Elise.

Mistakes my ass.

:rolleyes:

I don't remember reading this anywhere, but when compared to cars in it's segments, the RX8 always somehow manages to beat out the competition. Unfortunately, that doesn't always translate into sales. Case in point how many 350z's do y'all see compared to RX8's. In Cali I probably see 10 Z's for every 1 RX8.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_compact_sport_coupe_comparison/index.html

I agree with the rags the RX8 is just a drivers car. Would I like it if it had another 50-100HP sure, but honestly I don't street race and 90% of the time I obey the speed limit. I"m not sure when I would or how I would use that extra HP? Stop light racing, ah no. Merging onto the highway, no problem doing that with the current ponies. Racing civic's, srt neons, or anyone who wants to have a pissing contest.

At this point, I would probably go for better gas mileage, give the current state of our gas fiasco.

I guess Mazda isn't planning on dual clutch transmission like Mitsubishi and Nissan.

are you talking about an SMG? too expensive for this price point

if you are talking about a twin-plate clutch disc, that is completely useless on a car that doesn't make much torque.

a simple facelift is not going to save this car
Its too little too late :(
maybe Mazda will learn from their mistakes

Bit of a clueless troll aren't you.

#1 The RX-8 has sold about the same as the 2nd gen RX-7 (Mazda's previous biggest selling rotary powered car).
2nd gen RX-7:
1986 model year: 72,760
1987 model year: 38,345
1988 model year: 27,814
1989 model year: 16,249
1990 model year: 9,743
1991 model year: 6,986
1992 model year (only convertibles were available as a '92):2245

Or 174,142 cars for the entire model run.

Hmmm, those numbers justified the lame ass FD.

and just for your info (as of december 31st 2007):

2003 = 60100
2004 = 50813
2005 = 27837
2006 = 23463
2007 = 9,343

Or 171,556 cars in the first 4 model years. Yeah I guess how I can see idiots thinking that it is a mistake:rolleyes: They sold more 8's than any other rotary powered car in history, (and that doesn't even include the end of the 07 sales (which usually continue through may of 08, and the 08 sales, and the 09 sales, and the 10 sales)...

#2 Mazda is the only Ford division in the black.

#3 The 2nd gen RX-8 and ND is already in development (and I am not talking about the minor re-style that the 8 is getting for 2009)

#3 The 2nd gen RX-8 and NE is already in development (and I am not talking about the minor re-style that the 8 is getting for 2009)

actually I believe I recall reading in that press release that they're labelling the 09 as the "series 2" RX8. And with the R3 package, I think it looks great and should be interesting... but yeah it doesn't address all the concerns of current owners. With the 08 Mazda 5 they really listened to owners and fixed a lotta little stuff and I was impressed. I'm torn between the new Mini Cooper S and the upcoming R3 now, problem is, the Mini gets double the mileage... sigh

actually I believe I recall reading in that press release that they're labelling the 09 as the "series 2" RX8. And with the R3 package, I think it looks great and should be interesting... but yeah it doesn't address all the concerns of current owners. With the 08 Mazda 5 they really listened to owners and fixed a lotta little stuff and I was impressed. I'm torn between the new Mini Cooper S and the upcoming R3 now, problem is, the Mini gets double the mileage... sigh

Yes, it is normal to call it a series change on the minor change (for example the 1st gen RX-7 went through 3 series changes, and the 2nd gen RX-7 went through 2 series changes). Series and generational changes should not be confused together.

I am talking about the new platform change. The current FE and NC won't meet the 2011 rear body impact standards for the USA, so it requires the whole platform be re-designed, hence a whole new (not minor re-style) RX-8 and MX-5 by 2011.

Are you suggesting the next Gen "Miata" and "RX" will share a platform? What a novel and great idea. I think one platform could sufficiently fill three gaps with similar parts. The current Mx-5 niche, only with a 16x, the current 8 niche, and a hi=po two seat hard top. AN Rx7 if you will... Consi=olidating the RWD platforms and powertrains will allow for the savings to produce a third variant.

they mx-5 is already on a shortened rx-8 chasis.

are you talking about an SMG? too expensive for this price point

if you are talking about a twin-plate clutch disc, that is completely useless on a car that doesn't make much torque.

It sounds to me like he was talking about a twin-clutch auto-shifting manual, like VW's DSG (old name). Mazda displayed a 7-speed twin-clutch auto-shifting manual in one of their recent rotary powered concept cars. They would be stupid to not be offering such a transmission in the near future. It's expected that this new RX-# car in 2012 will have such a transmission.

Are you suggesting the next Gen "Miata" and "RX" will share a platform? What a novel and great idea. I think one platform could sufficiently fill three gaps with similar parts. The current Mx-5 niche, only with a 16x, the current 8 niche, and a hi=po two seat hard top. AN Rx7 if you will... Consi=olidating the RWD platforms and powertrains will allow for the savings to produce a third variant.

As zoom44 already posted, the NC and the FE are already on the same platform. They will continue that with the next gen of each.

Got a suggestion. Why not look closely at their suspension enhancements (besides the obvious ones like Billestein struts) and see if it's really worth it to mod your car to mimic it. I mean come on..they changed the seats..and threw a newer mazdaspeed kit on it with new lights, and rims, and some suspension changes. Personally, I like the old style better.

It seems more to the RX style, if you will. The newer RX-8 reminds me of a ANGRY Mazda 6. The way I see it, look at the specs of the Shinka model in terms of Suspension, and look at this new RX-8. Then look up suspension online and see if you could get some good dampers or a whole set, set it up similar or something stiffer..and boom. Your car should now be at a similar playing field as the new one, or if not, better. Altspace would know more about that kinda thing.

I think it's a decent new look..But again, how much weight did it gain?

Got a suggestion. Why not look closely at their suspension enhancements (besides the obvious ones like Billestein struts) and see if it's really worth it to mod your car to mimic it. I mean come on..they changed the seats..and threw a newer mazdaspeed kit on it with new lights, and rims, and some suspension changes. Personally, I like the old style better.

They changed the rear suspension geometry. Good luck changing the suspension pickup points on your car!

They did? I read a decent amount about it, but not that much. lol. Damn. :/ You think it'll make that much more difference?

dude. cmon. it's gotten great reviews in comparison tests, and is liked as an overall package...but no review adores its styling, it is far from beloved for it's lack of torque in comparison to its direct competitors and is certainly not praised for its lack of factory updates since its introduction. porsche has been, and will continue to be a benchmark for sports car performance and packaging, as is BMW's 3 in the sports sedan segment. the rx8 was always an outlier and never really expected to meet widespread acceptance by the market. appreciation, maybe, but not acceptance as far as sales go. i love my car as much as most people on this forum, but our vehicles are not one of the most adored, beloved and praised cars in automotive journalism. hyperbole becomes you.

I disagree- I can't recall a comparison test, including some very recent ones where the competition had a chance to improve their wares, where the RX-8 did not come in first place. After over a year of ownership, this car still satisfies, and it's combination of handling, power, comfort and practicality and even styling (which grows on you) still impresses the hell out of me. It does whatever I ask it to do. As Sports Car Illustrated pointed out in their first road test nearly four years ago, the RX-8 can be anything you want it to be. You can't say that about a Porsche.

^^^^^^^^


I agree with the rags the RX8 is just a drivers car. Would I like it if it had another 50-100HP sure, but honestly I don't street race and 90% of the time I obey the speed limit. I"m not sure when I would or how I would use that extra HP? Stop light racing, ah no. Merging onto the highway, no problem doing that with the current ponies. Racing civic's, srt neons, or anyone who wants to have a pissing contest.

At this point, I would probably go for better gas mileage, give the current state of our gas fiasco.




At last, someone who gets it. BTW, lowering that final drive ain't gonna do much for the mileage issue- to say the least.

At last, someone who gets it. BTW, lowering that final drive ain't gonna do much for the mileage issue- to say the least.

Much as I can empathize wth your view of the world.... it is not the only view that matters - IOW we all "get it" but what we get just isn't the same. You want mileage because you use it as a street car only and yea it's ok, even very adequate for that, performance wise. Still, I and others want a performance toy and our cup is partially full. Why only partially? Well, if you inhabit the realm where the car is giving it's all regularly, you will find it boring. Boring? Yes, It's glacial after 90 from a tracking perspective vis-a-vis lots of other cars. The high speed pickup is weak. Nothing 'wrong' with the car, it's simply lacking >90ph, and is not terribly quick to that point. Still, up to that point the deficiencies can be made up for the most part and it's damn entertaining in the process.

Try a look at the world through other's eyes or better yet, go to the track and enjoy yourself and really undertstand what others see, feel, and gripe about. Love of the car is why we care.

Much as I can empathize wth your view of the world.... it is not the only view that matters - IOW we all "get it" but what we get just isn't the same. You want mileage because you use it as a street car only and yea it's ok, even very adequate for that, performance wise. Still, I and others want a performance toy and our cup is partially full. Why only partially? Well, if you inhabit the realm where the car is giving it's all regularly, you will find it boring. Boring? Yes, It's glacial after 90 from a tracking perspective vis-a-vis lots of other cars. The high speed pickup is weak. Nothing 'wrong' with the car, it's simply lacking >90ph, and is not terribly quick to that point. Still, up to that point the deficiencies can be made up for the most part and it's damn entertaining in the process.

Try a look at the world through other's eyes or better yet, go to the track and enjoy yourself and really undertstand what others see, feel, and gripe about. Love of the car is why we care.

Again- I have no interest in track performance and neither do the overwhelming majority of owners. If track performance is your ultimate gauge of performance, as opposed to street usability, I would be looking for a different car to drive, and more than likely it would have two seats and a shorter wheelbase. Those basics generally work better on a track as a starting point in design.

People are trying to imagine this car for something it is not- it has nothing to do with wishes, hopes or perspective. The car succeeds where it was meant to- not where people wish it to be to satisfy some urge it was never built to satisfy in the first place. It's not the car's fault- it's yours. For those of you who still don't understand, this is not the RX-7's replacement.

That's what I mean by "getting it." I've heard every bellyache in the book on this forum, from idiots who traded up from Civics and thought 35 miles per gallon was a God given birthright, to those who decided on this car instead of a Mustang, and complained the car was no good at pulling tree stumps.

Fuck 'em all.

If I were you, I would be looking for a Lotus Elise, or another take no prisoners car. Something without carpets, leather or trunk insulation. You want better track performance? Well, damn it, go buy a car that will deliver it. The RX-8 succeeds at being an RX-8. That will do for me.

I see the same culture of complaint in the tech space I follow- despite every miracle we've been given, there is always a bitch point- not enough memory, why isn't it flash enabled, why isn't the Wi-Fi better, and I want more storage- and did I mention I want it for less than half the price?

Enough.

Fuck 'em all.

You tell um. Damn the world for wanting change, nay even rotary progress no less!

It must be terribly upsetting that the underwhelming minority of owners want to upset the status quo demanding that things 'good enough just the way they are' still need a little tweaking.

For those of you who still don't understand, this is not the RX-7's replacement.

Ah now I get it ...:uhh: not an RX-7 replacement, not an RX-7 replacement... that's a new one ... but isn't the RX-8 about half the price, and it is flash enabled, and it doesn't have enough memory or we might be able to tune it??

It's too much! Are you sure? :rolleyes:

They Need To Work On The Performance! More Hp. Or Simply Have A Stock Turbo Just Like The Rx7. We Should Right To Mazda Tell Them To Work On There Peformance

Oh well at least their passion over weighs their financial advisers. If it was the other way around the rotary would have been cut out long ago.

But the RX-8 is definately getting much stiffer competition, especially in 2008 and 2009. It will only mean more price cuts which would drop the resell values even further. Which is no problem if you never plan on selling the car.

All I'm saying is if Mazda wants rotaries to stay competitive the 16X better come fast and perform even faster.

You tell um. Damn the world for wanting change, nay even rotary progress no less!

It must be terribly upsetting that the underwhelming minority of owners want to upset the status quo demanding that things 'good enough just the way they are' still need a little tweaking.



Ah now I get it ...:uhh: not an RX-7 replacement, not an RX-7 replacement... that's a new one ... but isn't the RX-8 about half the price, and it is flash enabled, and it doesn't have enough memory or we might be able to tune it??

It's too much! Are you sure? :rolleyes:

If the car were any faster- it will no longer be this model, regardless what number they slap on it. Without a major design change, the numbers are not going to change meaningfully.

And it's not aimed at the same market, otherwise it WOULD be a replacement for the
RX-7. This is as much a replacement for the RX-7 as the RX-7 is a replacment for the
RX-2.

Now do you get it?

Like MP3Guy says..You need to keep in mind that this sports car is aimed to the Mid-Life crisis kind of person. Thus why the 4 seater. I'm going to also agree with MP3Guy on the fact of.. This isn't a replacement for the RX-7, but at the same time, it is. Why? It's taking the sports car to a more practical sense (again, midlife crisis person) and broadening the age range and type of people for the car. RX-7 was a true sports car..two seater.. fast engine, and ready for tuning. This is still a fast car.. great handling.. ready for tuning, but again... Not your "rotary rocket" out of the box.

The best thing to look at is this... This car is the G35 Sedan..And the RX-7 Is the G35 Coupe. Come sometime soon (hopefully..) the new RX-7 or RX-9 will be released and is supposed to surpass both RX-7 and RX-8 (as quoted from the Hot Version DVD "Rotary Rocket"..It's the chief designer from Mazda I believe). So until that thing comes out..I'm happy with my RX-8 and lightly tuning it for Auto Cross and simple daily driving and looking pimp.

To cater to the driving-conscious enthusiast, the 2009 RX-8 will offer a new R3 sport package. Providing the very best in rotary-powered motoring, the R3 harkens back to the R1 and R2 packages offered on the mighty third-generation RX-7, and adds a sport-tuned suspension with Bilstein shock absorbers and front suspension crossmembers filled with urethane foam. Filling the crossmembers makes for a smoother ride, minimized NVH and greater suspension control.
On the visual side of the package, a rear spoiler, side sills, fog lights and sporty front bumper are added to give an aggressive appearance, along with 19-inch forged aluminum-alloy wheels with high performance tires. Inside, the R3 adds a 300-watt Bose® audio system with Centerpoint® surround sound and AudioPilot® noise compensation technology, Bluetooth hands-free phone system, front Recaro sport seats with leather side bolsters, leather-wrapped parking brake handle and Mazda advanced keyless entry and start system.

If I'm buying an R3 package car, I don't need all of that fancy bullshit on the inside. Call me stupid, but if you're making a performance version of the same vehicle then why the hell do you add all of that stuff along with it? The car is a GT/Shinka hybrid with Recaro seats from the sounds of it.

How about you give me the R3 package but ditch the Bluetooth capability, the Centerpoint surround, advanced keyless entry, the sunroof, and give me a real sport package vehicle. Let me keep the Recaro seats, but make it an actual performance package vehicle instead of a GT with more options. Make it a car really ready to hit the track and ready to hit the autocross course.

I'm a bit let down by that.

Also, as much as I love the car there is no way in hell I'll pay that much money for a R3-packaged car that will be worth half the price in a couple of years. I'll just wait 3 years and buy one for $15,900 like I got my loaded RX-8 for.

I'm surprised they didn't make a club sport edition like they did with the MX-5..Made specifically to just get out, and go autocrossing and racing pretty much.

I'm surprised they didn't make a club sport edition like they did with the MX-5..Made specifically to just get out, and go autocrossing and racing pretty much.

That's what I was hoping they'd aim the R3 at specifically.

Oh well.

If I'm buying an R3 package car, I don't need all of that fancy bullshit on the inside. Call me stupid, but if you're making a performance version of the same vehicle then why the hell do you add all of that stuff along with it? The car is a GT/Shinka hybrid with Recaro seats from the sounds of it.

How about you give me the R3 package but ditch the Bluetooth capability, the Centerpoint surround, advanced keyless entry, the sunroof, and give me a real sport package vehicle. Let me keep the Recaro seats, but make it an actual performance package vehicle instead of a GT with more options. Make it a car really ready to hit the track and ready to hit the autocross course.

Inside, the R3 adds a 300-watt Bose® audio system with Centerpoint® surround sound and AudioPilot® noise compensation technology, Bluetooth hands-free phone system, front Recaro sport seats with leather side bolsters, leather-wrapped parking brake handle and Mazda advanced keyless entry and start system.

I see nothing in there about a sunroof.
I see nothing in there about navi or the heavy leather seats in the GT.

Nor, anything else that's going to detract from the autocrossibility of this car. Specifically, the stereo could have about the same weight as stock (and sound much better), blue tooth adds virtually nothing (and I like as a matter of fact for the road trips driving the car 1000+ miles to national auto-xes, hands free) and it will have shocks that are fairly decent (easily revalvable), wheels that can take wider rubber than the 18x8s, and whatnot.

I fail to see how this car will not be a decent auto-x car. (It doesn't have to be bare bones, but I'm also not saying I wouldn't mind a bare bones car either).

But everyones condemning it before it's even been tried! :)

And if you're going to blame an auto-x loss on a car because it has bluetooth and a stereo, you have other issues to worry about. ;)

--kC

Like MP3Guy says..You need to keep in mind that this sports car is aimed to the Mid-Life crisis kind of person. Thus why the 4 seater. I'm going to also agree with MP3Guy on the fact of.. This isn't a replacement for the RX-7, but at the same time, it is. Why? It's taking the sports car to a more practical sense (again, midlife crisis person) and broadening the age range and type of people for the car. RX-7 was a true sports car..two seater.. fast engine, and ready for tuning. This is still a fast car.. great handling.. ready for tuning, but again... Not your "rotary rocket" out of the box.

The best thing to look at is this... This car is the G35 Sedan..And the RX-7 Is the G35 Coupe. Come sometime soon (hopefully..) the new RX-7 or RX-9 will be released and is supposed to surpass both RX-7 and RX-8 (as quoted from the Hot Version DVD "Rotary Rocket"..It's the chief designer from Mazda I believe). So until that thing comes out..I'm happy with my RX-8 and lightly tuning it for Auto Cross and simple daily driving and looking pimp.

As someone who has been into performance cars since he was 16, and is now 55 years old, I resent the use of the term "mid life" crisis.

Some of us have been into cars for a long, long time.

Wasn't aiming "midlife crisis" at you.. :P I'm talking about guys who are going bald at 40..lost their wife.. have money but nothing to do with it because they worked so hard all their life.

If the RX-8 is aimed at the ... cough.. cough "mid-life crisis" folks, then how come there are so many young people on the forum and buying RX-8s? I think it more tuned to the "practical sports car guy" (with little money) at whatever age. The style may get the youngest, the practicality of carrying people and goods get the 25-39 age group, and the fun of reliving their youth the rest.

The guy who lost his wife at 40, balding or not. ... he's the luckiest one... he gets to try it one (or more) more times, the lucky bastard, AND he's got the money to grease the way.... now we're talking!

If I'm buying an R3 package car, I don't need all of that fancy bullshit on the inside. ...

Good point. That is why I get mine. All I need is the handling, performance, and look. I try to keep the weight down as much as possible like light-weight version from the factory.

Wasn't aiming "midlife crisis" at you.. :P I'm talking about guys who are going bald at 40..lost their wife.. have money but nothing to do with it because they worked so hard all their life.

I could dig it! -But, I still want a lttle more HP.:)

As I go over the new facelifted RX8, I still like to the original RX8 design a bit more because the design co-ordinated with rotary shaped along with exterior and interior. Besides, the 2009 Nissan GTR design is somewhat similar to RX8 original design, especially side fender vents. Also, the new GTR has a carbon composited shaft as well. Seating for four...and so on. Can Mazda sue Nissan for the design? Just kidding...


looks like a cross between an RX8 and a 350Z

looks like a cross between an RX8 and a 350Z


Not sure which combo you mean but if reference is to the GT-R ... the GT-R looks like a warthog with an overbite. Butt ugly from every angle. The RX-8 and 350Z are beautiful and fairly decent, respectively. The only reason the GT-R gets respect is it is one awesome power machine with the means to put that power to the track. That's how Nissan turned a visual sows ear into a silk purse in the eyes of the beholders/owners I guess!

I see nothing in there about a sunroof.
I see nothing in there about navi or the heavy leather seats in the GT.

Nor, anything else that's going to detract from the autocrossibility of this car. Specifically, the stereo could have about the same weight as stock (and sound much better), blue tooth adds virtually nothing (and I like as a matter of fact for the road trips driving the car 1000+ miles to national auto-xes, hands free) and it will have shocks that are fairly decent (easily revalvable), wheels that can take wider rubber than the 18x8s, and whatnot.

I fail to see how this car will not be a decent auto-x car. (It doesn't have to be bare bones, but I'm also not saying I wouldn't mind a bare bones car either).

But everyones condemning it before it's even been tried! :)

And if you're going to blame an auto-x loss on a car because it has bluetooth and a stereo, you have other issues to worry about. ;)

--kC

I never once said weight, I simply feel if they're going to make a performance package car then why not skip all of that junk? Is it needed to make the car faster? Nope. Leave it out then! Let the GT have it, as a Grand Touring car should be something with all of those features and technology.

The sunroof was an assumption given that it seemingly includes the rest of the GT package along with it. Props to Mazda if that is forgotten on this car!

I'm not going to buy a new one anyways, so it's more a rant than anything else. I just think it's stupid to add in all of that stuff on a car that is the performance-oriented one of the bunch. You could say I'm viewing this car from a purist perspective, and in that mindset the car seems a little tainted if you ask me.

I have plenty of issues, but thinking that Bluetooth is going to make a car less of an autocrosser is far from one of them. lol

The sunroof was an assumption given that it seemingly includes the rest of the GT package along with it. Props to Mazda if that is forgotten on this car!

The R3 is a package.

The GT, Touring, Sport, are trims.

I believe you'll be able to get the R3 in any of the trims minus the things that come with the R3.

And yes, that includes ordering without a sunroof. ;)

--kC

I never once said weight, I simply feel if they're going to make a performance package car then why not skip all of that junk? Is it needed to make the car faster? Nope. Leave it out then! Let the GT have it, as a Grand Touring car should be something with all of those features and technology.

The sunroof was an assumption given that it seemingly includes the rest of the GT package along with it. Props to Mazda if that is forgotten on this car!

I'm not going to buy a new one anyways, so it's more a rant than anything else. I just think it's stupid to add in all of that stuff on a car that is the performance-oriented one of the bunch. You could say I'm viewing this car from a purist perspective, and in that mindset the car seems a little tainted if you ask me.

I have plenty of issues, but thinking that Bluetooth is going to make a car less of an autocrosser is far from one of them. lol

You arent going to buy the car so wth does it matter? gotta love trolls eh?

You arent going to buy the car so wth does it matter? gotta love trolls eh?

So now anybody who doesn't own an rx-8 or isn't planning on buying the car is automatically a forum troll? I've been following the 8 since it was released, just waiting on the sidelines hoping that one day it will meet all of my requirements. The fact that I will most likely never buy one does not mean that I don't have opinions about the car...

Imagine the concept of the R-something pkg if Mazda had done it right

New Track Ready Mazda RX-8 Edition features:

>Recaro Seats
>Aluminum Hood, Roof and Trunk
>Electronic Adjustable Suspension
>Adjustable Anti-Sway bars for Tuning
>Shock Tower 4 point Brace Front & Rear
>User Adjustable DSC Operation
>HD Radiator for Increased Cooling Capacity
>HD Oil Cooling capacity
>CAI For Increased Airflow
>Improved OMP with External Resevoir Option
>Improved Fuel Delivery system Eliminates Fuel Cutouts
>Built in GPS/Data Aquistion with Large Customizable Display
>Wider 9"x18" Super Lightweight Wheels
>Track-Ready with High Performance XX-brand Tires
>Sport High Flow Exhaust with Sport Tune
>Reduced Weight Program saves 200lbs over GT Touring Model


It boggles the mind to wonder "Why didn't they just ask...?"

PS Not even a single horsepower addition (not even 1) in sight and I would have been tripping over myself to give Mazda my money regardless of how the car looked.

I still love my car, regardless of the "changes" they make..... I wish Mazda, instead of Cadillac, came up with the saying "When you turn your car on, does it return the favor" cause mine still does :)

Imagine the concept of the R-something pkg if Mazda had done it right

New Track Ready Mazda RX-8 Edition features:

>Recaro Seats
>Aluminum Hood, Roof and Trunk
>Electronic Adjustable Suspension
>Adjustable Anti-Sway bars for Tuning
>Shock Tower 4 point Brace Front & Rear
>User Adjustable DSC Operation
>HD Radiator for Increased Cooling Capacity
>HD Oil Cooling capacity
>CAI For Increased Airflow
>Improved OMP with External Resevoir Option
>Improved Fuel Delivery system Eliminates Fuel Cutouts
>Built in GPS/Data Aquistion with Large Customizable Display
>Wider 9"x18" Super Lightweight Wheels
>Track-Ready with High Performance XX-brand Tires
>Sport High Flow Exhaust with Sport Tune
>Reduced Weight Program saves 200lbs over GT Touring Model


It boggles the mind to wonder "Why didn't they just ask...?"

PS Not even a single horsepower addition (not even 1) in sight and I would have been tripping over myself to give Mazda my money regardless of how the car looked.

Because last time they built something like that (the 89 RX-7 GTUs- note the small S, don't confuse with a crappy 89 GTU) nobody bought them.

You had a FC that dropped everything (including power windows and sunroof), added just the go fast goodies from the Turbo, bigger wheels, heavy duty suspension, aluminum hood, reduced insulation, and a quicker rear end.

But it tanked. It tanked so bad that Mazda ended up rebadging some of the 1200 89 models they built into 90 models and restamped the year on the VIN.

In fact to sell them, most of the dealers went out and had aftermarket sunroofs installed, as it was the only model in 89 and 90 not to come with a sunroof to save weight.

Sure people ask for a no frills with lots of factory go fast parts, but when it comes down to it very few people actually buy that.

This isn't 1989. Several vendors sell track version of their cars. Tracking is growing in popularity and people have money to spend. This is now. Lotus, Nissan, Mitsu, BMW, Porsche, others are selling them or contemplating it.

If Mazda as they say, has more cars on track than any other, they need to put their money where their marketing mouth is.

This isn't 1989. Several vendors sell track version of their cars. Tracking is growing in popularity and people have money to spend. This is now. Lotus, Nissan, Mitsu, BMW, Porsche, others are selling them or contemplating it.

If Mazda as they say, has more cars on track than any other, they need to put their money where their marketing mouth is.

Go look up how many MX-5 models got sold on race trim last year.

That was a trim package that didn't even have air conditioning... it was Bilstiens, race seats, delete insulation, delete radio, delete air condition, delete power windows and mirrors, add LSD, add heavy duty suspension.

They sold so many that you can't even get one from the dealer this year.

You can ask, but almost nobody buys a stripped out race ready car, so why would Mazda, who is happy sellling 20K RX-8s willing to make a couple thousand that at best would sell to maybe 1 % of the buying public?

You can ask, but almost nobody buys a stripped out race ready car, so why would Mazda, who is happy sellling 20K RX-8s willing to make a couple thousand that at best would sell to maybe 1 % of the buying public?


I didn't mention anything about stripped out, rather optioned up. Few want stripped out cars, except perhaps some EVO owners lol.

You arent going to buy the car so wth does it matter? gotta love trolls eh?

Excuse me?

Last time I looked in my garage there was an RX-8 sitting in there that is in my ownership so I have just as much a right to be here as anyone else. I don't recall there being a rule that stated a person could not hold an opinion on a vehicle regardless of if they actually want to own it or not. I will not buy a new RX-8 when 3-year-old models are selling for half price.

You care to add some insightful conversation or is that about all you had? Try again maybe?

The R3 is a package.

The GT, Touring, Sport, are trims.

I believe you'll be able to get the R3 in any of the trims minus the things that come with the R3.

And yes, that includes ordering without a sunroof. ;)

--kC

The way it was explained in the press release made it, to me at least, sound like the thing was going to be loaded up.

If your summary of it is the case then I subtract everything I've said!

Edit: I just checked the build sheet information for the R3 (that's hosted in the other thread) and it shows all of those options (Bluetooth, etc.) as coming WITH the package.

As Sports Car Illustrated pointed out in their first road test nearly four years ago, the RX-8 can be anything you want it to be. You can't say that about a Porsche.

There's a lot of 997 Turbo owners that would disagree with you there...

The only thing that matters with the 09 is curb weight imho. Does anyone know the weights of 08 vs 09 yet?

... I will not buy a new RX-8 when 3-year-old models are selling for half price.

Smart. Used cars are always the best deal. I bought an 18 month old PT Cruiser Limited Edition Turbo for EXACTLY 1/2 the list price (12K). It was in nearly perfect condition and had 18K miles on it.

With the economy being what it is, with car sales down and projected to go further in the months ahead, used cars will inevitably sink ever lower. It's not the cars's fault so much as it is the ever present push of new car prices being discounted to keep sales up. Used cars go down with the tide of overall prices, only more. Happy day!

the only solution is keep your car long term and get your money's worth if you buy new.

You definitely want to keep your car longer than what your loan term is. Alot of people get used to having car payments since they never pay it off. They take one car, pay that for 2-3 years then trade in and buy another.

Smart. Used cars are always the best deal. I bought an 18 month old PT Cruiser Limited Edition Turbo for EXACTLY 1/2 the list price (12K). It was in nearly perfect condition and had 18K miles on it.

With the economy being what it is, with car sales down and projected to go further in the months ahead, used cars will inevitably sink ever lower. It's not the cars's fault so much as it is the ever present push of new car prices being discounted to keep sales up. Used cars go down with the tide of overall prices, only more. Happy day!

the only solution is keep your car long term and get your money's worth if you buy new.

If you don't mind rolling the dice out-of-warranty. I personally just lost an S4 because a faulty $50 roller caused $12k worth of engine damage. I really really wish I had not kept the car once my extended warranty ran out...

If you don't mind rolling the dice out-of-warranty. I personally just lost an S4 because a faulty $50 roller caused $12k worth of engine damage. I really really wish I had not kept the car once my extended warranty ran out...


Well, with the typical saving of buying a GOOD (and by that I mean I do due diligence of checking out the car's mechanicals and the model's typical repair history) one can do a LOT of repairs!!

So I don't really think in my case I would call it a roll of the dice, rather more a calculated risk :)

Oh yea, and my mother taught me NEVER to own a German car out of warranty! So right there that's probably eliminated like 70% of the cars that will cause an owner problem as a used car and I might consider buying:lol2: .

Well, with the typical saving of buying a GOOD (and by that I mean I do due diligence of checking out the car's mechanicals and the model's typical repair history) one can do a LOT of repairs!!

So I don't really think in my case I would call it a roll of the dice, rather more a calculated risk :)

Oh yea, and my mother taught me NEVER to own a German car out of warranty! So right there that's probably eliminated like 70% of the cars that will cause an owner problem as a used car and I might consider buying:lol2: .

I do most of my own work myself and it was in good condition, a roller replaced during the timing belt service (that I let a professional do) failed 1-month out of its 12 month warranty and took out the engine. It was just horrible luck (and poor engine design).

And yeah, I was definetly rolling the dice with a german car out of warranty, but I also have a third gen seven that I track frequently which has just as much potentional for disaster.

Nobody really knows how the rx-8's are going to play out long-term since it is a relatively new car...

Plus, any good gambler will tell you that rolling the dice is always a calculated risk :) It just depends how much risk you want to take on the car. Most people don't want risk on their cars and in-turn are willing to always have a monthly payment because they trade them in every 4 years. I'm just pointing out that isn't always a bad idea.

Go look up how many MX-5 models got sold on race trim last year.

That was a trim package that didn't even have air conditioning... it was Bilstiens, race seats, delete insulation, delete radio, delete air condition, delete power windows and mirrors, add LSD, add heavy duty suspension.

They sold so many that you can't even get one from the dealer this year.

You can ask, but almost nobody buys a stripped out race ready car, so why would Mazda, who is happy sellling 20K RX-8s willing to make a couple thousand that at best would sell to maybe 1 % of the buying public?

This post is inaccurate, and in no way can you compare the 2007 MX-5 MS-R package to any of the previous "R" option packages, or the proposed R3.

The MS-R was not available directly through the dealer, you had to be a Mazda Team Support member to get one. Mazda Comp would supply you with the code to have the parts retrofitted to a new base 5 spd car at the shipping port, before delivery. This was done to get the car legal to race in the SSB class for SCCA Club Racing, as well as CS SCCA Solo. The kit included an LSD, 17" wheels and revised suspension (which included Koni shocks not Bilstein). The MS-R did not have race seats, it had a full audio system and the carpet insulation was intact. The numbers I have heard were two to four cars were port built cars, the rest were all built by the end user, who would order the parts from Mazda Comp. The MS-R pkg was also not available until June 2007, and about eight weeks later the 2008 was released, this made for a very small window for people to order a 2007 MS-R. Most dealers had no idea it could be orded, you had to supply them with the option code, and it was not on the MazdaUSA website.

For 2008 SCCA Club Racing no longer requires that the package to be a factory/port installed option, so Mazda dropped it from the line up. Mazda Comp will still sell the parts to a team member so a 2008 MX-5 SV can be converted to MS-R specs for Club Racing. However, dropping it from the dealer option list means a 2008 MS-R is not legal for Solo.

Actually I'm going to have to side with Riggs on that one., as much as I love my RX8 if I have had the funds at the time I definitely would have gone with a porsche, a cayman to be exact. Granted our cars outperform porsches in the twisties,but on a straight line dash it's a whole nother story. Check bestmotoring vids if you doubt the sincerity on that. The rotart in any form is a monster granted, but nontheless the specs on a well tuned cayman can be mindblowing.

are you talking about an SMG? too expensive for this price point

if you are talking about a twin-plate clutch disc, that is completely useless on a car that doesn't make much torque.

I'm talking about dual-clutch, SMG is single clutch.

VW has dual-clutch transmissions called DSG. Not sure what Nissan GTR and New Evo's will be called, but they have a dual-clutch transmissions as well.

They're faster than their manual counterparts (in VW GTI's case...)

I just don't get why they even use an automatic on a sports car, that's a waste of such a fine machine. Besides, I'm sure single or dual clutch sequential transmission would only be a couple grand more.

ok... the new rx8 is going to be "faster... but the renesis engine is supposed to be new, right? i mean if a new motor is undergoing r&d for four years and they couldn't find any way to increase power, what does that mean?

1. the company didn't really try that hard to boost performance
2. the engine is pretty much maxed out as it is.
3. they purposely didn't give rx8 more power in order to not compete with the upcoming rx7/rx9

I'm pretty sure mazda tried just as hard as everyone else to squeeze some extra juice from this engine, so it isn't #1. There's no basis for #3 so the answer seems to be answer #2. So for future rotaries, will there be a new engine or new technology to produce more reliable power? hydrogen doesn't seem like the plausible answer right now, and a 3 rotor renesis will definitely eat up much more gas in addition to being a lot heavier.

This car was considered underpowered four years ago. While i think it's awesome that the car is becoming more refined in other aspects, shouldn't we have seen some more development to the engine? isn't the engine the most important aspect of the rx8? i mean all they've done is change pretty much everything else about the car except for the engine! prettier face, better handling i'm sure, more responsive, but exactly the same engine. hell, mazda's been updating their piston engines like every year. what does this imply? why does it seem like they're pushing style over performance with the rx8??

16x?

In a word, ROI. Look at Porsche, e.g., which DOES improve their engines regularly. They also sell more SUVs than sports cars now. Why, well $$. The ROI is huge selling hugely expensive SUVs.

The difference is in Porsche's case they CAN and DO sell hugely expensive sports cars too (producing great ROI), whereas Mazda believes it CANNOT and instead prices it's technology development to the $35K and below 'everyman' market.

If Mazda thought there was a market for a more expensive rotary, we'd already have it. Bad gas mileage hasn't put a dent in Porsche's sales, and a more powerful rotary's thirst would be similar, just NOT in tree hugger territory, just like Porsche.

In a word, ROI. Look at Porsche, e.g., which DOES improve their engines regularly. They also sell more SUVs than sports cars now. Why, well $$. The ROI is huge selling hugely expensive SUVs.

The difference is in Porsche's case they CAN and DO sell hugely expensive sports cars too (producing great ROI), whereas Mazda believes it CANNOT and instead prices it's technology development to the $35K and below 'everyman' market.

If Mazda thought there was a market for a more expensive rotary, we'd already have it. Bad gas mileage hasn't put a dent in Porsche's sales, and a more powerful rotary's thirst would be similar, just NOT in tree hugger territory, just like Porsche.

Yup, with everything going "green" these days, or atleast claiming to do so, it wouldnt be in Mazda's interest to step too far beyond the bounds of its primary market. Porsche, BMW, etc can do that because those are the markets they established themselves in long ago.

I want these seats...... But then again, the Bride Brix's would be nice to, minus having an airbag light for no side airbags.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v661/whitebeau/mazda_rx8_09_1280_09.jpg

Hay Guys!!

Like it for the most part. Hate the red reflectors on rear bumper above exhaust tips and HATE the fender vents with the stupid light in it... Oh please mazda dont release that car with that..... The front bumper is cool but I think making it all same color but the grill would be nicer. I give the new look 8 of 10. IMHO..

I dunno..I'm going to have to say it reminds me a lot of their new Astina that's coming out.. (That's Mazda 6 in America for those who don't know) Like..honestly..compaire them. You can't tell me the 8 won't remind you of it.

I'd say I appreciate the 8's appearence more as it is currently. It really revolutionized (spelling?) the sport car world in the sense of practicality along with style and performance and really just was an all around excellent package..considering it came from a almost track ready two seater. I just think it has great potiential as is now and is an excellent tuning base. The new one just looks too... concept like for me. Like it's going to grow wings and fly. The current 8 looks like it just wants to eat the road...That's just me. Laugh if you want. :)

I'd say I appreciate the 8's appearence more as it is currently. It really revolutionized (spelling?) the sport car world in the sense of practicality along with style and performance and really just was an all around excellent package..considering it came from a almost track ready two seater. I just think it has great potiential as is now and is an excellent tuning base. The new one just looks too... concept like for me. Like it's going to grow wings and fly. The current 8 looks like it just wants to eat the road...That's just me. Laugh if you want. :)


FWIW - Alot of people feel the same way about the look of the current car. Especially when it first came out it got as many sour looks as appreciative. I think this update i s rubbing some people who got used to the old car the wrong way, but moving forward will end up tidying up some of the loose ends and gimmicky style choices on the old 8.

Nicely put. I can agree with that. Though honestly.. I think I'm going to just stick to this 8..Tune it and what not and enjoy it... But as for a next car..I'll be awaiting their next Rotary monster..Whatever it may be. If it's the Furai, looks like I'll get one of those then.

^ What Zelse said. Keeping my current car until Mazda drops the next real Rotary sports car. I just hope it is within the next 3-4 years. The 135i is starting to look tempting, especially with the Tii concept....

;o

Don't betray... :P

I'm just waiting to see when this superior engine comes out because I'm debating just dropping it in my car as well. That'll be cool. 16x RX8? Yum~

How can one compare a Cayman at twice the price to an RX-8? The cayman is a fantastic car and with enough funds, i'd get one. But it is not twice better than the rx-8.
The 8 is a wonderful sports car. Without it's rear seats, I wouldn't buy it. the total package of this car is what makes it such an involving driving machine. If you are not a lazy driver meaning likes to row the gears, it is a quick car. I have no problem getting around torquer cars by maximizing each cog and rpm.