See this thread (all 24+ pages of it!) for details:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11614

If you are a definite buyer, please take this poll.

If you are a definite buyer, please take this poll.
Are you allergic to accurate statistics? :)

Nope, but I figured I better throw an option in there for people who just wanted to see the results. :)

Well I'm not sure what the precise differences are in the European model. If it's the same as US apart from the ECU, then I may be up for the switch at some point. (We're even lower on HP than the US model...)

If I had an RX-8 I would. The chip upgrade for my Audi A4 was the best investment I ever made.

I can't wait, this mod will be great!

Im sure that many of us have the 4yr/50,000 mile free warranty. I wonder if buying/installing an ECU mod voids the warranty?

It will if you leave it in place and the dealer discovers it, however, it's being designed so that you can unplug and remove it quite easily, leaving no traces that it was ever there. You could also disconnect it prior to emissions testing, should that be an issue in your area.

Not too sure, I would have to try it before I would commit -

That should be fairly soon due to the fact that the mighty 'zoomer has offered me a fully instrumented beta tester, to get some 'real world' feedback! Due to the connectors being back ordered, there are only a couple of working models, so far.

Feel free to eat your hearts out!

S

Damn you!!! :D Wonder if I move to Canada if Zoomer'd let me beta test too? :)

Originally posted by Omicron
Damn you!!! :D Wonder if I move to Canada if Zoomer'd let me beta test too? :)

Maybe you could convince CZoomer to allow you to high altitude beta test for him ;) A few runs to Aspen and back should do it!

Hurry hurry hurry!

I need 300 NA horsepower! :)

The fact that so much power can be unlocked just by changing the fuel mapping means that whatever map Mazda gave us blows..

Proper a/f ratios = Everyone is happy ;)

Originally posted by RXhusker
Maybe you could convince CZoomer to allow you to high altitude beta test for him ;) A few runs to Aspen and back should do it!

Hmmm, now that's a thought! :D

If I owned an 8 now, the only reason I wouldn't buy canzoomers final product would be if Mazda would flash and lean out the maps themselves. I still can't make sense of if the "ECU Flashes" people have been mentioning are just to reset the ECU, or if they might actually change the fuel mapping, etc.

More horsepower, better gas mileage...all for $500?

You'd have to be an idiot not to buy his mod. After seeing how slow the 8 is after driving it I crossed it off list for my new car. But I happened across canszoomer's information and now the 8 is back at the top of my list.

I plan to wait and see. I can live with my car as it is for now and expect that more will be discovered as time goes by.

Just one question, please. Why would Mazda have paid all that money to buyers of the car with a 9 hp deficit, if they knew they could reprogram the ECU to make the advertised hp and get better gas mileage to boot?

I hope Canzoomer's reflash works, but I find it hard to believe Mazda would pay $$ out to owners and leave HP and MPG on the table.

I do as well ! Great mod !

"how slow the 8 is"???

the car is far from slow? The linear power is so deceiving.
But an extra 25hp would be nice

This isn't a reflash of the ECU, but a piggyback device that augments the ECU to readjust fuel control.

if it proves to be reliable, and if it gives more hp, and better mpg, and if it's <= 500, and if it's a piggyback unit that I don't need to alter the stock ECU, why the hell not?

I want to buy just to save on the amount of gas I put in this thing!

Originally posted by DAC17
Just one question, please. Why would Mazda have paid all that money to buyers of the car with a 9 hp deficit, if they knew they could reprogram the ECU to make the advertised hp and get better gas mileage to boot...?
Because they couldn't change the fuel map and still meet emissions standards in all 50 states.

DAC17, well emissions are another factor. Anyone thinks the emissions will rise with this tuning?

Rotormotor, right, same opinion as I have...

are there going to be any dyno results posted? Or any mapping results with a wide band to see the change in the mapping? I am very interested in this and I will probily buy this. Also is this 25whp or crank? Thanks.

Originally posted by Alessandro
DAC17, well emissions are another factor. Anyone thinks the emissions will rise with this tuning?

He's said the major problem is that CA requires the cats to be at operating temperature within 5 minutes of engine start...

For some reason mazda couldn't come up with a timer to give a messed up map during that time, then go back to a full map later...


Sik- If you read the last few pages, he indicates that it's almost done, and that he'll have a webpage/sponsorship here soon

Thanks for the input. Assuming that the CA 5-minute emissions is the only issue, it seems like what everyone else says...it's a no-brainer!

i would like to.....i have read up to around the 15th or so page of the thread, very interesting info in there! lots of interesting stuff! is there any hints to when it will be available, i havnt had time to read all the thread yet! forgive me if this has allready been asked many times!


andrew

I baby my 8, with all city driving, I am still only getting 15~16 mpg.

if there is ANYTHING i can do to improve it, and get more than 340km a tank, I would do it.

you think that's possible with a properly reflashed ECU??

15-16? Man, I *never* break 13mpg, and my last tank was 12.9mpg! :)

A fuel map that keeps correct a/f ratios will provide an increase in economy over a map that is excessively rich.

I am usually very conservative and usually would never think of modding a new car. However, I have become so caught up in the car and Canzoomers work and other Mods I think I'm going to bite. I think a good all around setup would be Canzoomers stage one with Racing Beat CIA and Racing Beat front and rear stabilizer bars. Maybe the Racing Beat exhuast if it proves worth while. I don't believe I am actually considering this, although there are probably alot of people that are on the fence that will bite when they get more used to the car and it starts to feel slower to them.

KyngNothing, you need to go work for Mazda! What a simple yet brilliant concept. A different map after the car warms up. It's so easy.

This mod could cost $1500 maybe $2000 and it would still be worth it. Think of how much money in gas you will save. What if you could go from 18 to 25 mpg average. That is alot of money in gas very quickly and the added convienience of not having to stop all the time. On top of this the car is much faster and tunable. Don't count on it being less than $500. That would be foolish on his part. People are willing to pay $500-$600+ just for an intake and catback exhaust that gives only a few horsepower but won't $1500 for something that gives better mileage and way more power?! This is a no brainer and as long as it can be easily removed for service reasons there is no reason why demand shouldn't exceed his ability to build them. When I get my 8 that will be the first thing that I do.

Originally posted by panda
i would like to.....i have read up to around the 15th or so page of the thread, very interesting info in there! lots of interesting stuff! is there any hints to when it will be available, i havnt had time to read all the thread yet! forgive me if this has allready been asked many times!

andrew

Andrew, I think Canzoomer said something in another thread about building the first batch of these currently, and hoping to have them shipping around Nov 12th.

Definetely interested canzoomer has been very informative and thorough in his research on the rx8 .
As long as the product gets positive feedback from the forum members i am in , assuming canzoomer supplies the AUSTRALIAN market.

For those of you considering the Stage 1 from CZ, be advised the HP gains are there, but do not plan on much in mileage improvement, and you better not use 87 octane.

Mileage improvement only exists in the upper RPM range, because of leaning out the mixture to more suitable ratios.

Originally posted by rotarygod
KyngNothing, you need to go work for Mazda! What a simple yet brilliant concept. A different map after the car warms up. It's so easy.

When Mazda re-flashed the ECUs at port for the first delivery batch, the cat warm-up wasn't the issue being addressed (you don't run at full throttle during initial warm-up, do you?). The main concern is the missing hp at full throttle. The reason that Mazda changed the fuel and timing maps was that with the initial tune, emissions output regulations were being met just fine, but Mazda was concerned that the operating temperatures of the catalytic converter at full throttle, high rpm, were borderline too high for the cat to be able to last the required 100K miles. In order to run the cats cooler so that their expected longevity would be sufficient to ensure that they didn't expire too early in the vehicle life, Mazda had to richen the fuel and reduce the timing. With the last minute change, it seems that Mazda also left the mixture too rich even at part throttle operations.

That's why Mazda left HP and mileage on the table - to ensure that the cats could last 100K miles as required by the US emissions standards. Which also means that they can't easily change the maps back - but they could certainly tune the part-throttle operations for better fuel economy, it seems. Canzoomer has said that his base map should still be emissions compliant - but I'm sure he's not promising that your cat will last as long as with Mazda's fuel map.

This info was all stated by canzoomer over the course of the zillion-page thread.

Regards,
Gordon

yea haha that thread's a killer :eek:

like war and peace but worth a read. :)

Originally posted by rxeightr
For those of you considering the Stage 1 from CZ, be advised the HP gains are there, but do not plan on much in mileage improvement, and you better not use 87 octane.

Mileage improvement only exists in the upper RPM range, because of leaning out the mixture to more suitable ratios.


Actually if I remember correctly he mentions that city driving WILL see a improvement since low RPM's are running rich and he is leaning it out a bit with the unit.

regardless, if plugging that puppy in puts me over 210WHP, I will consider it money well spent :D

Count me in!!! :)

Thank you Gord...keep warm

Pam

Sorry, guys, I just stumbled upon this thread and never came across it in the other threads. Where are you gettin this information about Canzoomer's product?

Originally posted by JaChTsai
Sorry, guys, I just stumbled upon this thread and never came across it in the other threads. Where are you gettin this information about Canzoomer's product?
Read all about it in this thread http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11614

It's long (26 pages at current count!) but well worth the read, if you figure 25-50HP is worth it! :D

First off, I must give Canzoomer a lot of credit to go above and beyond what Mazda should have done for us since the beginning. And as far as anything out there right now, his product is the best bang for the buck to regain our loss HP and mileage (I’m really disappointed at Mazda for having us look else where, and pay more just to have our cars run correctly stock). Hopefully, however, other big tuner companies will step up to this and create a stand alone unit, like the Power FC or AEM, that will allow us to self tune our car on the dyno or street with a wide band, and data login if possible. But until then, I’m really interested in what Canzoomer’s final product will allow us to do till then.

Some catalytic converters are built better than others. Too bad Mazda didn't just try to get the toughtest one made for the car that they could instead of hoping a new tuning would allow the cats to run for so long. I am a little confused though. My 2nd gen ran way rich for a while and I killed 2 cats in one year. When I leaned it out after proper tuning became available I never had a problem again. Then again, the 13B exhaust is hotter than the Renesis.

I think that if you run the engine at full throttle for 100K miles, something else may die long before the cats do. Oh well. I have no problem with getting under the car and replacing my cat in 99999 miles.

Thanks for the clarification Gordon. After a couple of dozen pages of reading it all starts to blend together.

I think it depends on how much hotter your exhaust is. According to Canzoomer, the RX-8 cat is only designed to last up to about 1750 degrees Farenheit. If your exhaust is hotter than that, it needs to be cooled down (eg, by injecting fuel into it) or it will burn out.

His stage 1 mod is designed to keep the temp below 1600 degrees Farenheit, so the cat will be fine. Stage 2 mod exhaust temps will consistantly exceed 1800 degrees when the car is run up into the higher RPMs, which he says will burn out the stock cat in just a few runs... hence the need for a higher temp cat.

I think canzoomer should accept debit cards

. . . but I'm not turbo8795.

Originally posted by turbo8765
I think canzoomer should accept debit cards
I think he does...

Originally posted by turbo8765
. . . but I'm not turbo8795.
HUH?

For some reason, I've been logged on as someone I do not know. Logging out now.

Now this is rediculous - another userid entirely. Think I'll stay logged out for a while.

Originally posted by SCiMMiA
For some reason, I've been logged on as someone I do not know. Logging out now.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but that's happened to me too about a week ago. Kinda strange as I had access to that person's account settings...

Originally posted by KyngNothing
He's said the major problem is that CA requires the cats to be at operating temperature within 5 minutes of engine start...

For some reason mazda couldn't come up with a timer to give a messed up map during that time, then go back to a full map later...
Under EPA and state regulations a device like that is illegal as it is specifically designed to "fool" the tests.
Also it is not jus tthe 5 minute warmup requirement. It is also to meet the general emmissions spec for O2 and NOx output which would be too high at the range above 6,000rpm.
Lastly, they run too rich above 6,000 to cool the catalytic converter, so it meets the new requirement for the cat to survive 120,000 miles.

And, as of 2004 this is not just a California requirement.
All of the USA and Canada have a newer stricter regulation, which is similar to the current California spec.

Originally posted by Crashunit
First off, I must give Canzoomer a lot of credit to go above and beyond what Mazda should have done for us since the beginning. And as far as anything out there right now, his product is the best bang for the buck to regain our loss HP and mileage (I?m really disappointed at Mazda for having us look else where, and pay more just to have our cars run correctly stock). Hopefully, however, other big tuner companies will step up to this and create a stand alone unit, like the Power FC or AEM, that will allow us to self tune our car on the dyno or street with a wide band, and data login if possible. But until then, I?m really interested in what Canzoomer?s final product will allow us to do till then.
In fairness Mazda gave most of us $500 back.
Where do you think we got our target price for the Stage1 kit from??

That and the fact that it is just plain feasible to build and sell it for that.
Toughest parts are things like getting the correct connectors to match the wiring harness, making it tamperproof so people don't play with it and wreck their cars by trying to re-tune it, and so that people do not rip off our maps.

Hey Canzoomer, any update on your testing/pricing/availability?

Originally posted by turbo8765
I think canzoomer should accept debit cards

agreed

Any clue on when it will be released?

I think Canzoomer said something in another thread about building the first batch of these currently, and hoping to have them shipping around Nov 12th.

damn......november 12th eh? i have an extra 500 bucks laying around hehehe

major concern here is whether or not it improves mpg and hp. Let's hope we have good reviews!

Any word on the progress and a release date? I dont mean to be too pushy, im just so anxious over this project.

Check the vendor section of the forum - Canzoomer has his own section! In there, he advises that shipping should start this week (maybe started last week).

He also mentions mpg - he says that there may be a very slight improvement in mileage depending on how you drive (ie if you spend a lot of time at high rpm it'll improve), but not significant. It's for the power!

Regards,
Gordon

my answer is hell no. who is canzoomer, what are his/her credentials in ecu programming. what other cars has he done. what exactly is he doing to the ecu. i think i will have a real professional tuner from japan tune my ecu.

Credentials? Check out his website http:\\www.harddata.com - he makes LARGE mainframe style computers. He forgotten more about control unit programming than most of us will ever learn.

Want more? Check out this thread http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...;threadid=11614 for all the gorey details of the ECU development. A *long* (28 page!) read, but definitely worth it.

Originally posted by Efini 8
my answer is hell no. who is canzoomer, what are his/her credentials in ecu programming. what other cars has he done. what exactly is he doing to the ecu. i think i will have a real professional tuner from japan tune my ecu.

I'm tired of people making comments without doing even a little research :mad:

He is not touching the ECU
He had done extensive research

Why can't people understand that Canzoomer is putting out a fuel controller and not a new ecu or an ecu re-program :confused:

Originally posted by Efini 8
my answer is hell no. who is canzoomer, what are his/her credentials in ecu programming. what other cars has he done. what exactly is he doing to the ecu. i think i will have a real professional tuner from japan tune my ecu.

Funny you mention that.
I started this off by contacting A'pex Integration in Japan to see what they might be developing for the RX-8.

Their reply was that as the ECU's in the Japanese RX-8's are properly programmed, they have had little or no demand in Japan.

They put me in touch with one of their dealers, and I struck it off with him.

Apexi told us that if we were to share the data we gained by our testing they would be able to make their FC units with the data, so it can be used on the RX-8.

So, if anyone has not connected the dots yet, the Stage3 we plan for later will (hopefully) be an Apexi unit. Factory programmed with our map data, for a set of maps including stock, and one or two different enhancement levels.

As for the credentials of the person I worked with:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/dealers.asp

Scroll down the list at the top to the Canada section.
Diablo Power Products is the other half of the partnership in this project.
Mr. Cameron Koole runs a shop that does almost completely power tuning projects, and has done so for several years.

As for my credentials, I am mainly a hobbyist.
I have worked/played on various cars that I owned over the last 30 years, Austin Mini Coopers, Datsun 510's, RX-3, Fiat X1/9, Chevies, Honda SiR, Nissan SpecV.
All were modded, chipped, exhaust tuned, intakes, and so on.

I know some are getting unhappy that we have not shipped hundreds of these yet.
That is because we are doing it what I believe is the "right way"

We are using the proper connectors that match the Mazda components to make a proper "plug in " kit. No hacking wires, no permanent mods.

This takes time. A freind of mine has been hand building some of the harnesses for us. He is an electronics tech with around 30 years experience. Neither he nor I can build one in under 3 hours.

We will shortly have ones here made by a company in Hong Kong who i and my company have dealt with for a few years in making circuit assemblies for the computers we build.
The low cost of Chinese labour will help us achieve the faster build rate and to make the cost what it need to be.

The FC chip and circuit is made for us by Greddy, and is a basic version of their unit, but simplified down and hard coded for this application. They agreed to do a custom build for us based on a certain volume point.

As for "what are we doing to the ECU" the answer is NOTHING!
We are supplying a circuit that tricks the ECU into providing the fuel and ignition to match what we want. It is a piggy-back unit that simply tells the ECU that conditions are different than reality. The ECU responds by changing fuel injection rates and ignition timing to respond to the conditions it perceives.

What we are doing is by no means new.
This is standard tuning practice.
You test, you adjust, you test some more.
You monitor fuel mixture and temperatures with instruments.

Over a rigorous regimen of testing, both on a dyno in the shop, and on the road, you determine what needs to be done.
You take the map data you have and program a fuel/air piggyback computer with the settings you derive.

Anyoneo with some experience in it, the tools, the dyno, the shop, the car, a couple of hundred hours to burn, about $15,000 to invest, the contacts in the electronics industry and auto aftermarket industry, and the WILL can do it.
It is not "rocket science"
It is called "work"

I would not be too surprised if someone in Japan might not be doing a tune for the RX-8 as we speak.

Of course theirs will be for the one with the Japanese ECU programming in it, and will be totally irrelevant for the N.American ECU setup we have here.

If you want to get a Japanese tuner to do the work, so be it.

He will have to get a USA/Canada spec ECU to do it with.
And he will have to get a local Mazda dealer to re-program the immobilizer and keys for it, so that the car will start.

If you have any questions, I encourage you to talk with me.
My email is:
maurice@harddata.com

My phone # is 780-456-1510.
I am generally available at that number from 8:30 a.m. to 11:00p.m. Mountain Time Zone.
This week I will be taking an upgrade course in AutoDesk Inventor during the daytime, so call me in the evening.

Originally posted by Efini 8
my answer is hell no. who is canzoomer, what are his/her credentials in ecu programming. what other cars has he done. what exactly is he doing to the ecu. i think i will have a real professional tuner from japan tune my ecu.

Bwaaahahaha! What a jerk. For someone who now claims to be in the automotive "biz", Efini, you show a remarkable lack of knowledge. You'd think that since we're all talking about something with some knowledge, and there's several links to long, detailed discussions, that you could do even a little reading before posting a "hell no". What a knee-jerk reaction to a question you didn't even bother trying to understand! Every single question you asked has been answered multiple times on the forum. If you haven't got a clue and aren't interested in getting a clue, then it's your loss. Good luck with your Japanese tuner, glad you have an excess of money to throw away.

(Kudos to canzoomer for his patience!)

Regards,
Gordon

Kudos for everyone and their patience.

As I have said a couple of times it is a slow process.

There are a lot of people champing at the bit, and to them I apologize we are so slow right now.

I promise we will catch up soon..

CANZOOMER, You're my hero! A successful business man doing what he loves to do. That's one of my goals in life. Just to stay on topic... If i had the extra 500 this would be my first mod.

The reasons I wont buy it are 1 I live in California, 2 Its too early to void my warranty, 3 The price is a little much.

I do like what he is doing though and wish him luck. Perhaps in a few years I will be ready.

Originally posted by madsenj37
The reasons I wont buy it are 1 I live in California, 2 Its too early to void my warranty, 3 The price is a little much.

I do like what he is doing though and wish him luck. Perhaps in a few years I will be ready.

these are all valid reasons i suppose, but let's look a little deeper into it.

1. you live in cali and have strict ass emissions laws. i do to. canzoomer's stage I will probably make your car emissions illegal in california, but then again, how would anyone know you have it installed, or better yet, why would you fail to take it off or disable it when you take it to have it tested for emissions? basically what im saying is that you should never run into trouble with this modification (i am referring to stage I only) in the sense of getting in trouble for emissions. it can be uninstalled in 15 minutes or just wired to a switch that can change it back and forth from normal fuel map to the more aggressive fuel map included with canzoomer's stage I.

2. technically it voids your warranty but once again we revisit the card which lets us make stage I disappear whenever we want, and our car is bone stock again within 15 minutes :)

3. $500 for 20-25 REAL WHEEL HORSEPOWER is pretty damn good. considering most air intakes out the rx-8 right now are about $250-$350 bucks and there horsepower gain is probably very little, $500 is a steal. the only other mod that could add that amount of HP for that price is probably nitrous, and nitrous is not a very good idea for the renesis yet, not until more research is done. last point about pricing........somewhere in one of the thread's discussing canzoomer's ecu mod, he has always wanted to keep the cost around $500 for the stage I even though he could price it much higher and still sell, this is because as all of us rx-8 owners know, mazda decided to give back $500 if we decided to keep our cars. put two and two together.

No kidding. I know a lot of what canzoomer is facing with the actual unit construction and research into it and think it's a good deal. Fact is the unit will be very well designed from everything we have heard and has been tested a bit with great results.

And to the fact that cz mentioned he had over 500 orders for the stage 1, I think it's safe to say a few agree with that.

I am sure other similar products will show up, but this one is here, and I got a 500 dollar card coming with his name on it.

I'm going to wait and see how it's doing first. However I am very excited about this. Man, I hope it turn out to be the real deal. This would mean a big deal to RX8 owner. I would get the Stage I kit though.

this thread is funny, my apologies if I jumped the gun, but I do not care to read all the damn posts in this thread.

*EDITTED* sent to canzoomer.

hmmmm ... I think I will take the my tuner cuz maybe he tuned the most famous rotary engine car of all time... hmmmm I believe it was the 787B .... oh and I think it won the Le Manns or something? lol ;) :o

Originally posted by Gord96BRG
Bwaaahahaha! What a jerk. For someone who now claims to be in the automotive "biz", Efini, you show a remarkable lack of knowledge. You'd think that since we're all talking about something with some knowledge, and there's several links to long, detailed discussions, that you could do even a little reading before posting a "hell no". What a knee-jerk reaction to a question you didn't even bother trying to understand! Every single question you asked has been answered multiple times on the forum. If you haven't got a clue and aren't interested in getting a clue, then it's your loss. Good luck with your Japanese tuner, glad you have an excess of money to throw away.

(Kudos to canzoomer for his patience!)

Regards,
Gordon

Gordon - just because I choose not to post up my knowledge of the automotive tuning world does not mean I have a lack there of. Lets not degress like children and start calling names, that is quite rude and immature.

Please guys, no flame fests. OK?

Nobody enjoys it.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, and having stated it, should be left alone to enjoy it.

Now, on to the fun stuff..

Originally posted by Efini 8
Gordon - just because I choose not to post up my knowledge of the automotive tuning world does not mean I have a lack there of. Lets not degress like children and start calling names, that is quite rude and immature.

OK, no flames this time. :) My reference to your lack of knowledge was not referring to the tuning world in general, but specifically to the Canzoomer ECU mod. Your very emphatic "hell no" response would indicate that you thought it was worthless, when in fact you didn't even know what the mod was!

I would have thought a "no, because I don't know what it is" would be more appropriate than "Hell, no", because THAT makes it look like you've actually considered it and rejected it. If you haven't got a clue as to what the mod is, what it does, how effective it is, how can you so emphatically reject it?

An opinion formed entirely without any background knowledge is pretty useless, and better left unsaid.

Regards,
Gordon

Originally posted by Efini 8
my answer is hell no. who is canzoomer, what are his/her credentials in ecu programming. what other cars has he done. what exactly is he doing to the ecu. i think i will have a real professional tuner from japan tune my ecu.


Haha you crack me up YOU ALREADY HAD A PROFESSIONAL FROM JAPAN TUNE YOUR ECU ther name is MAZDA. :p

Some news of interest.

We are now ready to ship!

See:
http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16692