Can zoomer and about 60 + cars in north america , have reported a failure in the oil injection system .

There are 2 injectors per rotor , apparently the front injector is failing to squirt enough oil in to the front rotor and this is causing the front rotor seals to seaze.

Upon this happening the ECU throws a check engine light and the power drops car goes into limp mode and run for a few miles , and then stall .

Starting can be difficult and if achieved there is a cluttering sound and it sound like a diesel engine .

The seazing of the front seals happens over time and above 4000 rpm mostly on highway driving .

Makes me wonder if KAS had this problem when he had his engine replaced and was told by mazda not to comment on the forum ???

Has anybody else here in oz had this problem ??
The so called japanese rotary engine superriority is well and truly being tested .

Wonder if mazda will recall our cars and test the oil injection systems .

NOT HAPPY MAZDA ??

Kas said his problem was a cracked housing, which introduced coolant into the engine. Sounds like he is getting a new car. I can understand why Mazda didn't want him to comment... I don't think they want to set an expectation that an engine failure will result in a new car.

SCO

Realising that any manufactured product , can have teething problems i expected that a certain percentage of rx8 were going to have some problems , however in the new age of the internet with over 5000 members on this forum its nearly impossible for any manufacturer to keep its clients in the dark IMHO KAS was entitled to a new car , but gagging him from telling the forum about his problem is totally a no no .

We do live in a democratic society and MAZDA had no right in getting him to sign a gaaging clause .

We do live in a democratic society and this allows two parties to decide to enter into a confidentiality agreement if they both decide they will benefit from it. Each to his/her own. I don't agree or disagree with what you are saying or what happened to Kas... all I said was I can understand Mazda wanting to manage expectations.

Many companies have a lot to learn about life on the Internet, and I have said before (and will say again) if Mazda were smart, they'd contribute proactively to this forum (directly, or indirectly via a dealer), as I believe it has contributed to people buying the car. Given the disintermediation that the Internet brings, it would be a perfect opportunity for a dealer to differentiate themselves and this would have a positive effect on their business... but none have stepped up to the mark, yet.

Originally posted by Lock & Load
Can zoomer and about 60 + cars in north america , have reported a failure in the oil injection system .


60+ cars? I thought there were only 6 so far according to canzoomer?

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13379

Who is your source on the 60+ cars in NA? If that is true, it will be a worrisome number indeed. I'm almost ready to buy this car but this news is making me hesitant again :(

I've only read about a handful of 8's with engine problems so far.

This is where I got my info from. CanZoomer posted this on page 3 of RX8 Disscussion -> Engine failure at 3600.

"It seems this failure is caused by a fault in the oil injection system.
There are two injector per rotor.
Front injecto on front rotor fails to squirt, usually at highway use above 4,000 rpm over sustained time.

Front seals fail, seizes, ECU throws a check engine, andpower drops.

Will run on limp mode a few miles.

Re-starting is difficult, and if achieved will make a sound like a bad old clattering diesel.

About 60+ in N. America have done this so far.

How do I know?

Happened to me on Tuesday.
New engine is on it's way from Japan.
Apparently they have used up all the ones in stock over here.

In the meantime I will be driving a Camry from Enterprise at Mazda's expense.

sigh..."

Maybe some of your forum members should do a bit more reading of other parts of this forum not just the Aussie sction.

Downshift KEV

I also have 3 friends who are like you just waiting for more real world views on the rx8 , before they commit themselves to purchasing , i have past on all good and bad news to them , they will have to decide for themselves .

SIXTY = CARS having engine problems , out of about 5000 so far sold in US , OVER 10% NOT A GOOD START IN MY MIND.

I am contacting mazda TECK DEPT ON MONDAY and ask them some question ,but no doubt they will not no of the problem . DENY DENY DENY ,seems to be the philosophy of most car manufacturers.

L&L, sorry to hear your problem, but even when one is obviously very pissed off as a result, it's important not to scare people with a wrongful interpretation of the facts! 60 cars with engine probs (are the all they same prob?) in NA is just over 1% of all 8's on the road there. Not good, but NOT 10%! Taken the other way, just under 99% haven't had problems!

I agree. I personally don't think there are 60; we'd have heard more examples here by now if so. I've only heard of 2. Look at the 'first to wreck' thread. A yellow in Japan and apparently 3 here have crashed that I know of, maybe 4 here. That doesn't make 60 either. Not that the forum represents the entire RX-8 ownership - but it's probably close to 10,20, maybe 25%.

L&L, got to say I'm not happy with your "should do a bit more reading of other parts of this forum not just the Aussie sction."

Back off !

From what I can see, you don't have a problem, but are worried about a potential probem.

One of the reasons I stopped reading the "RX8 Discussion" forum, is that it is full of negative crap, and just starts me worrying.

I'm sure Mazda has all the facts and will take action if they believe they need to... If my engine goes, and they give me a new one... no big deal!

Is it just me or is there some really funky mathematics at work in this post?!?!

You bet! canzoomer went from 6 to 60 cars affected in NA in just a couple of posts. But searching the whole forum for posts relating to engine failure, I am struggling to find 10 across the world.

Having said, that, suddenly find self on knees praying I will not be stricken tonight!:eek:

I totally agree msydd.


I know of one car that is running like a dream...... mine!!

hmmmmm...... I wonder if only people who were happy with their 8 posted, how many threads there would actually be here??

Don't get me wrong, I’ve learnt a lot from posts people who have posted about issue's they have had, but seriously....... there is a difference between constructive criticism and just nagging.

Maybe I would feel differently if I had problems with my sleek black machine, but I haven’t and I don't.


"TOMMOROW IS PROMISED TO NO ONE . so lets enjoy our lifes and our rx8 today."

I think one of the problems with a lot of people here is they say 'mine is great, so no problem'. Well, that is great for you, but... If a car has any problem that is in 2% of them it is consider very much worse than average.

I can not believe that people are OK with engine failure IN ANY PERCENTAGE! Just goes to show how blind some are with this car.

Hey guys dont shoot the messenger , i am only reporting what carzoomer has had happen to his car as i and other forum members believe he is one of the most knowledgeble members of the rx8 .

I only reported what had been posted by him.

Luckily i personally have had no problems with my rx8 to date , however i do pay attention to posts that identify potential new p
roblems , especially when they are posted by Canzoomer .

Hmm interesting!

If the seals broke then coolant would have definatly been able to get into my cars engine..

A story for you, it didnt add up to me.

I was working on town and noticed a silver rx8 pull up. Still holding onto my old cars keys i thouhgt i'd try the keylock to see if the dealer has given my car out or is using it as there are not many rx8's in my area.

I walked over and pressed the button, it didnt work. I took a step back, it wasnt mine however a girl in the passenger seat, she said "yeah, their 80 grand" I replied, no their not, i've got 1.

So we got talking and i asked her how long her dad had had the car and she replied, "oh my dad only has it for a week, he works for mazda and they are putting km's on it"

Now, when i had talks with Mazda (re: getting a new car and leaving my old one with them) they said they would "give my car to mechanics to put 10-15k on the new engine before selling it through the dealer auctions".

Seemed fishy to me. still does. You dont just get a brand new car and lend it out to workers to put km's on it.

Canzoomer may have an audience on this forum in general, but that doesn't instantly make all of his keyboard clatter gospel.

No, that doesn't mean I also think he has reason to lie, but consider the fact that he HAS been using the car for higher performance product development.

I won't believe 60 cars with engine replacements pending unless I am shown more substantial evidence. Maybe it's really 500, maybe it's only 10 ... !

Anyway, economically, Mazda can not afford to let the problem destroy every rotary engine out in the field if there's any possibility of a recall fix. This is not a comment to support Mazda, it's just obvious.

That is weird KAS.... Bags not being the one to buy that car at auction after a bunch of random dudes have thrashed it for 15,000km. Even if they are mechanics, what would you do if someone gave you an RX-8 and said "have fun, bring it back in 2 weeks..."

L&L, the first few times I read this thread, I thought it was your car that was stuffed! Glad to hear it's not. I missed the bit where you said you were quoting canzoomer. Don't think I was the only one either!

Originally posted by Lock & Load

SIXTY = CARS having engine problems , out of about 5000 so far sold in US , OVER 10% NOT A GOOD START IN MY MIND.



Did you get taught by one of those new math teachers?

DGW

Yeah thank god my baby is in great health and i am tryng to see if i can possible do some pre emptive work to keep it that way , i will be talking to my mechanic and to mazda head office to see if the front seal problem exists in OZ and if it can be cheched to see if the seals are getting adequate lubrication .

michael

Originally posted by Kas
Hmm interesting!

If the seals broke then coolant would have definatly been able to get into my cars engine..


Oil injection protects the apex and side seals only. Coolant and oil gallery seals have nothing to do with it.

L&L, keep in mind there are two sides to every story. Anybody would lose the warranty claim on their engine if it were proven that the motor died through the customer stuffing with it.

Fact: Contrary to popular beleif, a rotary without oil injection doesnt just instantly die. I have personally put 20,000km's on a 13b that was runnning on only the oil naturally leaking past the turbo seals. It was still putting down good compression #'s when I sold it. When I bragged to a guy I know who has worked on rotaries since the day the R100 came out, he told me it's a common myth. He said, you should expect to get 30,000km's out of an engine with no oil injection. Bear in mind that this guy ran a mazda service dept for nearly 20years.

But don't don't my word for it, hell you shouldnt take ANYONE's word on the internet, since you don't know what vested interest they have, ring a service dept and ask them.

-pete

RPM _PWR

I .hear what you are saying but as it was reported the car seazed and drooped in power , went on limp mode , so the problem was different or affected the renesis differently to earlier rotaries .

Iagree some forum posting have a vested interest but i holly trust CANZOOMER , HE AND HIS TEAM HAVE MANAGED TO UNRAVELL QUITE A FEW MISTERIES OF THE RX8.

Issues like this are handled by the auto companies. It is their neck on the block. I would hesitate to make a general statement of engine failure considering that people are modifying their engines and then failure occurs. Source thread: Good New Bad News. We just need to share about our cars but AVOID internet panic. People who are shopping read this too.

Modifying a car should not be affecting the engine the way it has, most are still stock and/or making useless mods like cat-backs and intake, nothing major.

There is no real horsepower kits on the market yet and we really arnt testing these things out.

Mr. rpm-pwr is right on with the coolant/oil seal difference- the coolant seals are the huge 'o' rings that seal the rotor housings from the end plates. A side seal would not let coolant in or out.

I was one of the first people to have a coolant seal failure, 1978 I believe, and Mazda gave me a nice new engine.

Thanks again, Mazda, I owe you one!
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doc

Originally posted by Lock & Load

Iagree some forum posting have a vested interest but i holly trust CANZOOMER , HE AND HIS TEAM HAVE MANAGED TO UNRAVELL QUITE A FEW MISTERIES OF THE RX8.

That's fine, it's your decision. But have you read these?

I have heard pinging on an RX-8 ( don't ask, OK?)....BTW, to make it "ping" on 91 octane you have to....

.....Then we dialed up to lean until we got a ping under load, and right after we did the ECU got a signal from teh knock sensor. We did this on the 5 main fuel/intake configurations that occur at the various rpm points.

That's a shitload of serious knocking even at 500rpm maps points. (18rpm points x 5 load points = 90 seperate occasions)

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying his work is dodgy, but rather, he probably spent an engine finding all the knock points.

Exhaust port location would have SFA to do with apex seal friction. If anything, it should be better with the newer housings.

-pete

RPM-PWR

YEAHi get your drift , but no one is perfect canzoomer imho seems to be very knowlegeble in most areas of the rx8 but not all.

Herewith, a SBO: These boards and the internet generally are a great medium for exchange of information and experience. However, there is always the issue of opinion vs fact.

For an issue such as an engine failure or major defect, I would prefer to see a number of individual posts setting out experiences rather than one that goes on to relate others "that have been heard of", and I for one hope we can encourage as many 8 owners as possible to participate and share their experiences, so we ALL gain from the collective experience and experimentation.

Me? Now I have my doubts about the performance-enhancing capabilities of those rotor emblem tyre valve caps ;)

Timbo