Also, newer then year 2000? I hate to say it but i was kind of denied any possibility to get an 8, my only chance of a rotary car.

I guess there isn't anything that'll handle like the 8 but what would be close ? I'm figuring i'll have to look at a FF car or even some sort of awd car like a wrx. I'm thinking the rsx would be closest, but plz any suggestions for me to further look into would be greatly appreciated.

15-17k?


How about a used RX8?

Also, newer then year 2000? I hate to say it but i was kind of denied any possibility to get an 8, my only chance of a rotary car.

Why were you "denied" getting an RX8? Parents?

The WRX can be a very capable handler but it needs some thing done to it in order for that to happen. A rear sway, KYB AGX struts, a good set of springs, and some sticky tires works wonders for that car. Integra Type R is a great handling little car even though it's a little older than what you're looking for, but it's also tough to find. Mazdaspeed Protege, SRT-4, and Focus SVT are other very capable FWD handlers. About the only thing that's going to handle about as well or better than an RX-8 in that pricerange and is '00 or newer is an older higher miles 350Z or S2000. But I have a feeling you'll be "denied" those as well. There's also the Miata.

a used rx8 IF the price is what is denying you from getting it

+3 used RX8 2005 or newer.

Or a used S2000...?

Rx-7?

He said he needs an FWD or AWD, so I gather his parents are restricitng him from driving a RWD car.

wow....powertrain layout bias....first time for everything i guess

Get a Miata.

Cant see the parents denying you that, unless they are skiddish about a convertible, in which case you get a hard top.

there are quite a bunch of used rx8s with decent miles in that price range

Integra Type-R...as long as you're not too concerned about creature comforts. Fun factor is way up there.

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=111936&stc=1&d=1197468615

S2000 rwd
Audi S4 awd
ITR fwd

Mazda MX-5 (Third gen Miata). Suspension geometry very similar to the RX-8. Feels more like the RX-8 than a 2nd gen Miata.

I don't know about you guys , but I want to know, why he was denied .

MX-5, 90s MR2 turbo, FD3S, S2k. FF cars short of a MINI S do not have the thrill of the RX-8 round the bends.

FF cars short of a MINI S...

Well then it's a good thing there aren't many cars shorter than a Mini. :cwm27:

FF cars short of a MINI S do not have the thrill of the RX-8 round the bends.
That's funny, my Type-R is way more fun/thrilling and better performing than a Mini S John Cooper Works in a straight line and in the bends in every experience I've had with them on a variety of different race tracks.

MX-5, 90s MR2 turbo, FD3S, S2k. FF cars short of a MINI S do not have the thrill of the RX-8 round the bends.


Ahhh, once again going around spouting off about things you have no freaking clue about.

I don't know about you guys , but I want to know, why he was denied .


me too:dunno:

FF cars short of a MINI S do not have the thrill of the RX-8 round the bends.
+1 Especially if the OP would like a car with a remaining factory warranty. Look at '05+ Cooper S's. IIRC that was the first year they came with a front LSD.

With regards to the ITR...great car, BETTER than a Cooper S, but they're getting hard to find and are still a big target of car thieves. I personally wouldn't buy one unless I had a garage at home AND at my work.

For the peace of mind, a late model Cooper S is the only good FF option imho.

I would check out a used 2005 SRT-4 ACR if I were in your shoes. Dodge's resale horribly so it's very possible you'll find one for $15k-$17k. They handle incredibly well and the aftermarket power potential is amazing. If you're looking for AWD then a used Impreza WRX might be your best bet. I don't know a ton about the different issues to watch for in each model year but they're every bit as tunable as the SRT-4 engine and can be made to handle amazingly. Good luck!

Ahhh, once again going around spouting off about things you have no freaking clue about.


You must be rubbing off on me. :dunno:

Being denied is because it " looks too dangerous for an 18 y/o." I also feel they think the insurance will be rather high even though it would be under my fathers name since his company car isn't labeled as the primary driver. Why must this car look so nice

Bah

So after looking at cars newer then 2000 as thats a must ( they think its more reliable ) and my price range of about 15-17, i'm thinking theres only FF and some AWD cars out there for. I would take FR if i could but i dont see it happening when my choices would be cars like 350/s2k.

The rx8 was perfect for me... But now i'm looking at dc5's and civic si's. I hate the background of the cars but they do perform well, and as for the WRX i been looking at the safety and insurance costs and they're horrible. So no chance there. ITR is great but i think the dc5 looks nicer and it being newer will make it more appealing to my parents.

dam

My 94 rx7 is less expensive to insure than a rx8 or a wrx would have been :dunno:

RX8 insurance is pretty cheap. Not as many ricers and teen agers wrecking them as Civics and WRXs.

My 94 rx7 is less expensive to insure than a rx8 or a wrx would have been :dunno:

I love the FD but It's definitely not in the reliable category.

Being denied is because it " looks too dangerous for an 18 y/o." I also feel they think the insurance will be rather high even though it would be under my fathers name since his company car isn't labeled as the primary driver. Why must this car look so nice

Bah

So after looking at cars newer then 2000 as thats a must ( they think its more reliable ) and my price range of about 15-17, i'm thinking theres only FF and some AWD cars out there for. I would take FR if i could but i dont see it happening when my choices would be cars like 350/s2k.

The rx8 was perfect for me... But now i'm looking at dc5's and civic si's. I hate the background of the cars but they do perform well, and as for the WRX i been looking at the safety and insurance costs and they're horrible. So no chance there. ITR is great but i think the dc5 looks nicer and it being newer will make it more appealing to my parents.

dam

Uhhh, the Impreza is one of the safest cars on the road. For a while (may still be) it was the only small car to receive the NHTSA's highest rating. The B pillar is so strong that fire departments around the country have to do special classes on how to get into the cabin if the doors are stuck because you can't cut through the B pillar.

How much does a MS3 run?

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehicleCode=MS3

How much does a MS3 run?


High teens for a used one with low miles. I'm actually going to look at one this week for my fiance and their asking price is 20,500 for a GT with about 5k miles. A sport trim model would be a little less.

15-17k.....MS3 is out of his range.

If you're looking at FR...
Try looking for a used mazdaspeed miata or a regular miata, maybe an older s2000. If you want something with 4 seats....that'll be hard.

FWD...as much as people have said integra and RSX...I doubt you're going to find cheap insurance. Try Honda Prelude, they make pretty good power.

AWD...try for a WRX. Like IKE said, the WRX does have pretty good safety, I am not too sure about your insurance. I asked AAA and it was more than the RX8.

15-17k.....MS3 is out of his range.

If you're looking at FR...
Try looking for a used mazdaspeed miata or a regular miata, maybe an older s2000. If you want something with 4 seats....that'll be hard.

FWD...as much as people have said integra and RSX...I doubt you're going to find cheap insurance. Try Honda Prelude, they make pretty good power.

AWD...try for a WRX. Like IKE said, the WRX does have pretty good safety, I am not too sure about your insurance. I asked AAA and it was more than the RX8.

No way i can get a miata or s2000 when my parents think the rx8 would be too dangerous.

guess my info on the WRX was way wrong, and i told my parents about the rx8 being rather low on insurance but they're so thick headed.

About preludes, i know nothing about them, they have a h22 right ? somtin like 210 HP? I guess i should check them out a bit. Though some one told me they handle like a heavy car. And also what about the 06 SI ? I'm not a honda fan obviously but i have heard only good things about this car.

Thanks btw, you have all been very helpful.

Other ideas are the Nissan Sentra Spec-V, Acura RSX or maybe even a VW GTI. All three cars can be had at your target price and have enough stock performance to be really fun.

No way i can get a miata or s2000 when my parents think the rx8 would be too dangerous.
:naughty:
guess my info on the WRX was way wrong, and i told my parents about the rx8 being rather low on insurance but they're so thick headed.

About preludes, i know nothing about them, they have a h22 right ? somtin like 210 HP? I guess i should check them out a bit. Though some one told me they handle like a heavy car. And also what about the 06 SI ? I'm not a honda fan obviously but i have heard only good things about this car.

Thanks btw, you have all been very helpful.

The miata would be an underdog, get a Mazdaspeed like mine and they won't realize how quick it is and they'll think it's just a slow safe little 2-seater convert. :naughty: Not to mention the handling is excellent just like the 8.

If that's really not an option then i'd say mini S, RSX-S, SI's are great cars but the looks of the new one are somewhat of an acquired taste. Spec V's are also fun, don't stand out too much and are fairly peppy for a 4-door.

The miata would be an underdog, get a Mazdaspeed like mine and they won't realize how quick it is and they'll think it's just a slow safe little 2-seater convert. :naughty: Not to mention the handling is excellent just like the 8.

If that's really not an option then i'd say mini S, RSX-S, SI's are great cars but the looks of the new one are somewhat of an acquired taste. Spec V's are also fun, don't stand out too much and are fairly peppy for a 4-door.

at 6'4 i think the miata is just a tad small =P

same goes for the mini

I love nissans, but something about the sentra just turns me off

wrx/rsxs/si is what i'm down too. if its an Si, i think i might just get the 4 door ( i agree on the coupes being rather ugly ). The Si handle very well, and if kenichi tsuchiya likes it then it must be a good car yeah? He did actually have alot of good things to say about it but that was a type R. Stock for Stock it did better then a 1st gen s2k on a track but... maybe the video i saw was more of a marketing thing.

http://www.gtchannel.com/content.php?cid=10975

Makes the civic look very good, but maybe its just the driver haha

The only thing I don't like about the new Si is the flywheel is too heavy stock. The engine actually accelerates between gears while shifting causing you to have to wait to shift.

at 6'4 i think the miata is just a tad small =P

same goes for the mini

I love nissans, but something about the sentra just turns me off

wrx/rsxs/si is what i'm down too. if its an Si, i think i might just get the 4 door ( i agree on the coupes being rather ugly ). The Si handle very well, and if kenichi tsuchiya likes it then it must be a good car yeah? He did actually have alot of good things to say about it but that was a type R. Stock for Stock it did better then a 1st gen s2k on a track but... maybe the video i saw was more of a marketing thing.

http://www.gtchannel.com/content.php?cid=10975

Makes the civic look very good, but maybe its just the driver haha

The new Civic SI is a better car in nearly every regard compared to the RSX, but it may be tough to find a used one for a decent price.

Being denied is because it " looks too dangerous for an 18 y/o." I also feel they think the insurance will be rather high even though it would be under my fathers name since his company car isn't labeled as the primary driver. Why must this car look so nice

Bah

So after looking at cars newer then 2000 as thats a must ( they think its more reliable ) and my price range of about 15-17, i'm thinking theres only FF and some AWD cars out there for. I would take FR if i could but i dont see it happening when my choices would be cars like 350/s2k.

The rx8 was perfect for me... But now i'm looking at dc5's and civic si's. I hate the background of the cars but they do perform well, and as for the WRX i been looking at the safety and insurance costs and they're horrible. So no chance there. ITR is great but i think the dc5 looks nicer and it being newer will make it more appealing to my parents.

dam

You can get a used S2000 for 15k-17k. I was looking at some for my girlfriend not too long ago. There's also MX-5's. Plenty of RWD fun if you can get over the "chick car" BS.

If u opt for a wrx, look into the wagon for insurance savings and less possibilities of modified ones due to owner demographics. Likely driven by park rangers...

Mazda MX-5 (most current Miata)

Honda S2000 (the 2.0 liter I-4 model especially, before they went to the 2.2)

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (less done to that than a WRX to make it HANDLE like an RX-8)

BMW M3 coupe (it's a stretch, but chassis dynamics are very similar)

...Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (less done to that than a WRX to make it HANDLE like an RX-8)...An Evo will handle better than an RX-8 off the showroom floor.

I would recommend a 2006+ Volkswagen GTI. Amazing handling, not too bad insurance, a lot of potential in the engine, very roomy interior, etc.

Also, very safe.

I am starting to say go for GTI as well...

Jap hot hatches/compacts are nice...but German/Euro are better imho

An Evo will handle better than an RX-8 off the showroom floor.

I disagree. Maybe it has more lateral grip and that is what youa re saying, but I've driven it.. . And I don't agree, it has more pitch and roll, and pushes through corners...

I am starting to say go for GTI as well...

Jap hot hatches/compacts are nice...but German/Euro are better imho

My experience with VW is that they should stick to purely mechanical devices. Their drivetrains are great and their electronics are demoniacally possessed.

I disagree. Maybe it has more lateral grip and that is what youa re saying, but I've driven it.. . And I don't agree, it has more pitch and roll, and pushes through corners...I was with you about 3 years ago but...

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=47435&highlight=Evo

My experience with VW is that they should stick to purely mechanical devices. Their drivetrains are great and their electronics are demoniacally possessed.

+1 big time

I disagree. Maybe it has more lateral grip and that is what youa re saying, but I've driven it.. . And I don't agree, it has more pitch and roll, and pushes through corners...

You are utterly wrong because EVO is God's chariot. Tweaked and modified from a humble family sedan by the ethereal masters of Mitsubishi.
It is able to launch itself to orbit faster than the Space Shuttle but a bit slower than the 350Z with K&N filter.

Sounds like somebody is bringing their frustrations from another thread into this one. I'm sorry that Ike got under your skin but this isn't the place to vent. The fact of the matter is that an Evo outhandles an RX-8. The RX-8 absolutely has the Evo beat in many categories but handling is not one of them. I'm sorry. There are plenty of cars that will outhandle an Evo. Would it make life easier for you if I brought those up too?

Hahaha.... u're funny. Us evo owners must stick together.... :uhh:

What is your basis of stating so matter of factly that the EVO handles better. I would never consider a car that has the predominant characteristic to understeer as being a superior handline car to such a balanced car as the 8.

Please enlighten me...

What is your basis of stating so matter of factly that the EVO handles better. I would never consider a car that has the predominant characteristic to understeer as being a superior handline car to such a balanced car as the 8.

Please enlighten me...Point A to B...any track...any surface...any altitude. If you still want to argue here's the place to do it. Delhi already shat on another one of my threads and I doubt the OP wants him to hijack his as well. This debate has nothing to do with anything...

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=47435&highlight=Evo

An Evo will handle better than an RX-8 off the showroom floor.


speaking of shat..... mmkay. You want ketchup with your shoe? :nono:

speaking of shat..... mmkay. You want ketchup with your shoe? :nono:

nothing wrong with debating cars, looks, data, etc. But posting in this^ nature will only lower the already low opinion that people have of you. If you have a valid point about the subject matter of a previous post then by all means post your original thoughts. But if you are posting simply to stir others feelings then choose another forum because here it will do nothing but make you look childish.....

speaking of shat..... mmkay. You want ketchup with your shoe? :nono:Ever play connect the dots when you were a kid?

...wrx/rsxs/si is what i'm down too...

...Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (less done to that than a WRX to make it HANDLE like an RX-8)...

An Evo will handle better than an RX-8 off the showroom floor.

Point A to B...any track...any surface...any altitude. If you still want to argue here's the place to do it. Delhi already shat on another one of my threads and I doubt the OP wants him to hijack his as well. This debate has nothing to do with anything...

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=47435&highlight=Evo


While not trying to Hijack this thread... sorry it's a lost cause anyways... but I found nothing concrete their besides differing opinions. I wouldn't take someone's word when it differs from what I have experienced, unless that individual showed me enough evidence to show that I was perceiving things incorrectly. Faster times around a racetrack does not a better handling car make, especially with the GIANT differnces in power between the cars.

^^ though I do in some ways agree with you revvittupp, I do believe that a race track is one of the ways to produce actual data in regards to a car (in terms of time around the track.) Though tires do play a major role, a track test is a pretty good way to determine one cars handling over another.

I'll agree that it's "pretty good" and one of the better measures, better then lateral grip, but it's not perfect. If from point A to B there is no throttle, for either car, then it is down to only handling, tires and brakes... But how many A-B segments won't involve throttle on either car? Short of simulated video overlay of the two cars with equal drivers on a short windy course, I'd say it's hard to prove as factual. Even at that point I think you'd find most, all or potentially even more then all fo the time seperating the tow cars on a small windy course would be after turn exit, prior to turn in, I.e. when the power matters. Perhaps lap times, with equal drivers, with a modded RX8 so that it has a similar Torque number at 3k would be a fair measure, if on stock wheels, tires and suspension.

nothing wrong with debating cars, looks, data, etc. But posting in this^ nature will only lower the already low opinion that people have of you. If you have a valid point about the subject matter of a previous post then by all means post your original thoughts. But if you are posting simply to stir others feelings then choose another forum because here it will do nothing but make you look childish.....

Yeah, like joining another car forum purely to post how superior my car is over theirs? Yes got it. :lol2:


Originally Posted by Steiner View Post
speaking of shat..... mmkay. You want ketchup with your shoe?
Ever play connect the dots when you were a kid?


So someone posted that the EVO handles better than a WRX almost like an RX-8 and you feel the need to point out that the evo out handles the rx-8. So what does it has to do with your initial post on the OP's question? It didn't add it to it other than trying to reinforce some sort of EVO superiority over an RX-8 in an RX-8 forum. Incidentally I did not deny.
To take it even further on the previous thread, I never once mention against the STi nor EVO's handling prowess instead pointing out that their utter efficiency in dispatching curves no longer illicit driving satisfaction for me compared to a classical RWD car and somehow the comment prompted some panty twistings.... makes you go hmm on who is insecure.

Let's take this to PM for further discussion.

I am assuming he can't find a relatively new Evo for 16-17K that hasn't been pummeled so...moving on...

There's always the Neon SRT-4 or....wait for it....wait for it...The CROSSFIRE!!

What is your basis of stating so matter of factly that the EVO handles better.
Please enlighten me...

Me too!

moving on....

...There's always the Neon SRT-4...
That's sorta what I'm thinking. It's not the most beautiful or most prestigious horse in the stable but the ACR version of the SRT--4 is really an incredible vehicle when you consider the price and the performance both in the twisties and in a straight line and the kind of high priced company it can keep on the track...

http://www.richkraus.com/cars/MPH_article.html

Mini Cooper S?

The SRT-4 gets more flack then it should.
I remember the ride and drive from when it was first released, the 230hp version and I was AMAZED at the torque the thing had. I was just a little less amazed at how well it handled and broke(past tense of Brake, not break). It may be one of the least imaginitive interiors, with now rear power windows, and it may look like a boyracer version of an economy box, but it moves.

MmmMmMm... turbo'd Neons are yummy.

I am assuming he can't find a relatively new Evo for 16-17K that hasn't been pummeled so...moving on...

There's always the Neon SRT-4 or....wait for it....wait for it...The CROSSFIRE!!

srt4's can actually handle windy roads ? I guess my image of all the kids street racing them is stuck in my head along with the dodge emblem.

Crossfire, lol its sad how horrible the depreciation is on those cars.

I brought up gti/wrx/rsx/si to my parents and they really want me to get rsx or si.

Mainly SI since insurance is lower and i think i'll be willing to spend upwards of 18k so i can save some money on insurance. Why do people steal integras sooo much =[

Thx for all the info from the first 2 pages.. iono what you all are talking about now. Sadly the civic forums are probably the worst of any car. Not sure how i'm going to learn about it if i pick one up z.z

wish parents would allow an 8, but i guess i'll have to wait till i'm in my mid 20's for a nice rotary like everyone else.

again ty, and the thread can be closed if administrators feel necessary.

When the new Civic SI came first came out, I drove it and was left COMPLETELY underwhelmed.

Cobalt SS. That Dodge wagon that has the neon turbo engine whatchamacallit. Or you are a JDM kinda fella?

I'm a bit of a JDM fellah due to the aftermarket, social issue of it, and that they're reliable as well as most likely to handle better. ( reliability and handling might be incorrect and i may just be brainwashed )

I live by canyons and windy roads which leads me away from the majority of domestics as well.

I wonder how much does the NB Mazdaspeed Miata go for these days. They are turbo so even an increase to 200hp will make this little car go real quick.

To clarify a little, the normal SRT-4 doesn't handle that well. For the most part it's a straightline rocket on a budget. But in 2005 Dodge released a limited edition version of the SRT-4 called the ACR. Same engine and same transmission but new suspension, new wheels, a lowered stance and some other goodies that made it a potent little track-day mauler.

BTW...I just did a quick search on cars.com and found one with about 40k miles for $18k...

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp;?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=22&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=0&sortorder=descending&sortfield=PRICE+descending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-ACR%7CE-ANY%7CM-_12_%7CH-%7CD-_512_%7CN-N%7CR-10000%7CI-1%7CP-PRICE+descending%7CQ-descending%7CX-popular%7CZ-94550&aff=national&paId=243970802&recnum=0&leadExists=true

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (less done to that than a WRX to make it HANDLE like an RX-8)

BMW M3 coupe (it's a stretch, but chassis dynamics are very similar)

Have fun insuring those! :lol:

That was an amusing read. on the agrument of handling on rx8 vs the Evo. It's simple really. The Evo handles better, because it's made to, and the RX8 is made to be softer and more comfortable. The RX8 suspension is far more friendly. Modify the RX8 to the EVO stock suspension, and you know which car will handle better then. Not a fair argument, or discussion really.

Hell, the RX8 doesn't sell well now. If that car had a ride like the EVO, then no one would buy it. It's made to have luxury.

Anyway, , I would recommend a GTI as well. Great car, so much fun. A used Speed 3 would be really nice, but you'd have to wait a year before it would hit your price range. :)

No way i can get a miata or s2000 when my parents think the rx8 would be too dangerous.

guess my info on the WRX was way wrong, and i told my parents about the rx8 being rather low on insurance but they're so thick headed.

About preludes, i know nothing about them, they have a h22 right ? somtin like 210 HP? I guess i should check them out a bit. Though some one told me they handle like a heavy car. And also what about the 06 SI ? I'm not a honda fan obviously but i have heard only good things about this car.

Thanks btw, you have all been very helpful.

Sorry about the late response, I had a late night.

Yeah, they have the h22 and you're looking at about the same hp numbers of the RSX type-S (if you're getting one that's 99'-01'), but a little more tq and it's more accessible since they're at peak lower in the rev-range. (200 hp (147 kW) @ 7000 rpm, and 156 ft·lbf (212 Nm) @ 5250 rpm. versus the SI which are 197hp @ 7800 and 139 @ 6100) However, the weight of the prelude offsets that...I have driven one, it doesn't handle all that bad. I drove the non-TypeSH model so keep that in mind, the typeSH model is supposed to handle the hell of a lot better. If you don't want to take my word for it...then I guess you can take a Carmag's? http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2202/10best-of-1997-151-honda-prelude-sh.html

It made the 1997 10-best list on C&D. Not that it means anything to anyone.

I haven't driven the SI hatch or the new 06 hatch so I can't really be much help there. I am more of a Mazda fan myself.