Okay while waiting for my 8 to come in I get all sorts of opinions. I have a friend from church that is the sales manager at our BMW dealer. I made the mistake of asking about the new '04 330i w/ the Performance Package and an SMG transmission. For those not familiar w/ the Performance Package, they add 10hp (no big deal), a much beefier suspension w/ 18" wheels, Alcantara seats and steering wheel, and I could get an SMG transmission like in the M3, which I have driven and absolutely love. Actually the SMG feature is what is making me think. The BMW would probably come in about $3k more than the 8 I have on order. But I could get all 3 kids in the backseat, and it would be a truer 4 door, which I really need. The main thing bothering me about the 8 is the gas mileage issue (I have a fear of getting stuck with a 13mpg car), and the interior room.

I'm just looking for some thoughts from you guys out there. Thanks.

How does a 40k 330i ZHP (that's the performance package) come in at 3k more than the 33k RX-8?

*confused*

Go with the Beemer! No ifs, ands or buts. I had an '01 330 Coupe which I loved more and more each day. Having to buy a car for my daughter is what made me downsize to the RX8, which I subsequently sold back. The BMW has been and still is the standard by which all sports sedans are measured against.

A close look at the quality difference in terms of materials used and solid feel of the doors, trunk, etc. will also make your decision a no-brainer. I'm not bashing the RX8, simply comparing it to a true world class car.

How is it you're able to get the BMW for only $3,000 more than the Mazda? I would think that package ought to take the price to around $42,000.

Originally posted by Hercules
How does a 40k 330i ZHP (that's the performance package) come in at 3k more than the 33k RX-8?

*confused*

My 8 will be around $35, and I can get the the 330i for around $38 (I've known the sales manager for about 5 yrs)

Originally posted by RX22
My 8 will be around $35, and I can get the the 330i for around $38 (I've known the sales manager for about 5 yrs)

Go for it. I paid $30K for my Rex. 25%-28% (depending on taxes) price difference is a lot, but 10% is definitely in the ballpark.

I'm surprised that you have a way to get that Bimmer so cheap. :eek:
In that case, if I were you, I'd go with the 330i. I also considered the 330i before I set my mind on the 8, but the main reasons I decided against it were it's price (WAY more than I will get my 8 for - the 8 will be 28K and the 330i would be well over 40) and the fact that in the area I live, everybody and their brother have a BMW. I'd hate to see myself coming and going every other minute :p

both are great cars
if it was the stock330 I would say rx8 all the way
but the 330 with all those goodies for 38 is pretty tough too beat

Get in an 8 bro. You may regret it. 330s are nice cars, but it seems like they are everywhere (I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone. Just my opinion).

The Bimmer's a sweet car and that's a sweet deal. But ... here are my thoughts, in no real order: (1) That "real" back seat is pretty tight for three people, even three kids. Three seatbelts doth not make three real seats. I would not take my kids for a long trip in that car (too many fights and errant elbows), but certainly some short trips. (2) Every g*odamn yuppie in town has a three-series Bimmer. It can't be true, but they seem as common as Civics around here, and frankly they look a great deal like Civics, but that's probably because Honda copied them. (Still a lovely car, though.) (3) I have owned and/or driven many three-series, six-series and seven-series Bimmers, and they are not as sporty-feeling as the RX-8. Sorry, but they are not as light-feeling, and they are not as tossable. Great, solid "sporty" cars, but not sports cars. I know I'm outraging a lot of enthusiasts here, but it's my opinion and I stand by it. (4) Maintenance and parts are obscene on Bimmers. (Although I think new ones now have free maintenance during the warranty period.) (5) The quality control and parts quality is questionable. There are a lot of parts, especially plastic ones, that tend to break too soon. Older three-series, for example, had problems with suspension mounts and thermostat housings. German plastic does not come close to Japanese plastic in durability, although maybe that has changed of late (I doubt it). (7) Bimmers tend to be a little short on standard features. My buddy's $50,000-60,000 2001 540i Sport does not even have a CD player, unlike every new Hyundai in the country. However, again, that may be changing.

All that aside, it's a lovely car and I'd be proud to own one.

My other concern is that the 3 series will hold its value better than the 8. W/ the exception of the SMG I agree the 8 is a much more fun car. For what it's worth, I will probably stick w/ my 8. I can't imagine not getting it after all this waiting.

Originally posted by Pure Tremble
it seems like they are everywhere (I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone. Just my opinion).


This from a Z owner.

lol

I have a 01 330ci currently and I absolutely love it every time I start driving. You don't see that many 330's out there (at least where I live). I mostly see 325's on the road although they do look similar. Go with the bimmer. $38k is a steal!!! I average 22mpg in the 330ci in sports mode and driving it like a stole it. You won't be sorry about getting a BMW even if there are a lot of them on the road. But, there is a good reason there are so many, because they are great cars of course! The RX-8 is awesome, but your getting too good a deal on the BMW to pass it up.

I would definitely go with the 330, especially at that price. I wish i had that opportunity to get one at that price.

trust me, bmw's are WAY OVERRATED. besides the fact that here in southern ca. everyone and their uncles drive 3 series, bmws have sooo many little problems.

Wow what a tough decision - what do the kids think?
My mpg is 17 city and 20 highway- with my 8.
Hopefully there aren't very many 8's out there at 13 mpg

I park next to an '03 330 every day -- every time I see the guy he asks to trade for the day with the look of pure envy in his eyes. If you ever have a chance to put the two cars side by side -- there would not even be a question as to your decision. If I were you I would use the Beemer deal to get a discount on my 8 now that they are out and available in dealer stock -- should be good for at least $1k to $2k off MSRP.

Originally posted by tribal azn2
trust me, bmw's are WAY OVERRATED. besides the fact that here in southern ca. everyone and their uncles drive 3 series, bmws have sooo many little problems.

:D That is what I thought too until I got one. Everybody and their brother told me I was crazy to get a BMW. I'm glad I didn't listen to them.

How is this a nice 330i?

Cloth seats, just a bit more performance, and the SMG actually REQUIRES the ZSP package AND the 17" option.

SMG is NOT available with the Performance Package (ZHP).

Anyway, invoice in the 330i is $37,500 if you could order it that way.

Sounds like an MSRP cloth seated RX8 with sport package at $28,300 MSRP.

So comparing invoice to msrp, that's about a $9,000 difference for the same creature comforts.

I don't get this comparison.

Great, solid "sporty" cars, but not sports cars. I know I'm outraging a lot of enthusiasts here

The above is in reference to BMW cars in general...

Everyone has the right to their opinion but that's got to be one of the silliest comments I've seen this week!!! (and I have been lurking on the CivicSI forums!!!!!)

I cannot even bring myself to say anything else as it would be too offensive...

Have a great day!
LIP
:p :p :p :p

That's funny lip!

Don't get me wrong, I actually like the 330i, but would prefer the ix platform.

I'm just not seeing what people are quoting on pricing as a realistic comparison.

that's like saying I could have bought an RX8, maybe a pimped out cavalier with all the options, LOL

330i is a great car, but no LSD. nuff said.

james

whats lsd

Limited slip differential

Originally posted by Murgen
You don't see that many 330's out there (at least where I live). I mostly see 325's on the road although they do look similar.

Thats the problem, BMW's are 10 a penny here, and everything from the 318 up looks the same. You even have to get right up its tail to spot an M3.

Cheers
---Dave

I was 330 Bimmer shopping for weeks until I heard about the 8, test drove it and bought one a few days later. Waaaaay more fun to drive. I test drove some z3's too. Didnt cut it.

Wow, I love BMW's SMG transmission. Until mazda strarts making SMTs, I'd have to say get bimmer. Or hydrogen Rx8 if your worried about gas milage. :)

I love the M3s and M5s but the 330? No thanks. I got a chance to run with one for a couple lights through some tight turns and had no problems with him at all. When we were done (ended up pulling into the same parking lot) he said nice car pretty quick too! I would like to get an M5 though!!!

How about an all wheel drive high performance Mazda 6. that's more of an apples to apples comparison to a 3 series.

I got the 8 because I liked it more than everything else I looked at that was up to double the price of the 8.

The 8 is a unique body design and that is something that makes a car special to me, the manufacturer bothered to make their sports car different! Mazda even went to the effort of making it viable for a family man - a non selfish sports car.

Originally posted by lip
that's got to be one of the silliest comments I've seen this week!!!

Ummm. OK. I guess I should ignore your bait, but since you don't even try to explain yourself I can't resist asking, what are you talking about? Calling my opinions silly without explaining your own is kind of pointless.

All I'm saying is that the regular three-series (and five-series, and seven-series) sedans (and even the two-doors are sedans), are not what I consider to be sports cars (in the general sense of the term, so as to include GTs), although they certainly are sporty. I was not mentioning other Bimmers such as Z4s, M3s, M5s, etc.

I have driven quite a few three-series over the years so I guess I'm entitled to my opinion, but since you don't bother to say why it's baseless I can't really address your reasoning.

Just to beat this thing to death (speaking of silly, why, o why, do I rise to bait sometimes?), I have to add that a good definition of a silly opinion is one lacking any basis. And here are some bases in the form of both facts and subjective impressions to support my opinion:

I have owned and/or driven the following BMWs: 2002 tii, 318i, 320i, 325i, 325is, 330xi, Z3 2.6 (I think it was), 630i, 735i and probably half a dozen others that don't spring to mind right now. The three-series that I drove (every one of them) had seats that were too flat, shifters too tall, body roll too much, steering too boosted, and general sense of lightness and tossability too absent, to qualify in my mind and in my humble opinion, as sports cars.

But anyway, so it goes. :o I'm not going to rise to any more flame bait, at least for today. ;)

This is not a generalization of BMWs or anything, but simply a fact:

My wife leases a CPO 1998 528i. It had 14K miles back in April 1999 when we got it; it has 66k now. Since then, we had the sunroof rails replaced three times. The front/rear cup holders have been broken for the past year. The "make-it-colder" button of the A/C unit was broken and superglued back into place. and the worse thing: the driver seat controls have been broken 3 or 4 times since the beginning of the lease. Now my wife is not abusive by any means, but we were quite disappointed to find that a $44k car has so many problems. Perhaps we got a CPO lemon, but I definitely would think twice hard about getting another BMW. We love the way it feels when we drive but the quality of the creature comforts seem too low a priority in this car. My in-laws bought a brand new Lexus LS430 back in 1992, and it had no problems that the family didn't cause themselves (like spilling a Coke down the shifter) except the fake wood dash on the driver door came off and had to be epoxied down again.

Anyway.... as for the original question, if you can get such a great price on the 3-series BMW, I think I would get that. The longer you wait for an RX-8, the better it'll be anyway. hahahahaha...

I've only driven a 330 Coupe, don't care much for the sedans, but if the sedan is anything like the coupe, you really can't go wrong with the BMW. Germans just build cars better than anybody, including the Japanese. The thing is a tank.

I think I speak for about 90% of us when I say that if we could afford a 330Ci, none of us would be driving an RX-8.

Now here comes the remaining 10% to say:

Originally posted by DefBringer
I think I speak for about 90% of us when I say that if we could afford a 330Ci, none of us would be driving an RX-8.

Now here comes the remaining 10% to say:

Eh?

Never been much of a BMW fan personally. I wouldn't complain too loudly if someone tossed me the keys to an M3 though...

my mom wanted me to get 330, even wanted me to get a 5 series lol.

bottom line the 8s a better car in general (concerning the 3), and when you factor in the price, its way better.

i personally wouldnt call the 3 series a world class car...
i didnt want the 5 cause im not 50, and i just dont like the way it looks, if this happened a year later though, i might have gotten one cause the new 5's are hottness, though the 8 still looks better!
________
SHIP SALE (http://ship-sale.com/)

All I'm saying is that the regular three-series (and five-series, and seven-series) sedans (and even the two-doors are sedans), are not what I consider to be sports cars (in the general sense of the term, so as to include GTs), although they certainly are sporty. I was not mentioning other Bimmers such as Z4s, M3s, M5s, etc.

I am simply stating that saying the 3 series is not a sports car in comparison to the RX8 is silly. Yes, the bimmer costs more, no doubt and I'm not saying that it is the better deal(different discussion).
We could argue till the cows come home that they are both not sports cars and I would probably agree, as the bimmer is a sedan and IMHO anything with more than two doors stretches the sports car definition for me. The RX8 might *look* like a sports car(I like the styling personally) in some peoples minds but it's performance and target market would disagree with that.
Not sure that I would agree to differentiate between an M3 and other 3 series as other than the engine/suspension components and other *goodies*, the basic chassis and layout are the same for all cars (and yes, I have driven everything from the lowest diesel four banger 3 series to an M3 but have not driven an M5 and as of earlier in the week, have driven an RX8).

Regarding my message as "bait"...take it how you see it...I could care less...

Have a great day...
:D

LIP

Originally posted by DefBringer
Germans just build cars better than anybody, including the Japanese.

Nope, I definately do not agree. I would take a Lexus GS430 in a heart beat over ANY BMW and I am not much of a fan of German Cars though of the German Cars I like the Bavarian Motors cars the most.

I did a quick count of the BMW's in our office car park the other day. 1 in 5 cars were BMW's .... That's why I chose the RX-8.

Originally posted by Bigcat44
Nope, I definately do not agree. I would take a Lexus GS430 in a heart beat over ANY BMW and I am not much of a fan of German Cars though of the German Cars I like the Bavarian Motors cars the most.

Lexus is overpriced Toyota trash for people who were driving Oldsmobiles 10 years ago.

There isn't a single Lexus or Toyota made today that exhibits a speck of passion or creativity. They are boring cars for boring people.

Are they built well? Sure. But not built as well as the Germans build theirs.

Originally posted by Bigcat44
Nope, I definately do not agree. I would take a Lexus GS430 in a heart beat over ANY BMW and I am not much of a fan of German Cars though of the German Cars I like the Bavarian Motors cars the most.

And you are smoking something if you'd pick a GS430 over any BMW other than a 325 or Z3.

Would you honestly rather drive a GS430 than a M5?

Originally posted by DefBringer
Would you honestly rather drive a GS430 than a M5?

The M5 isn't a better car, its a 520 with a better engine.

Originally posted by DefBringer
Lexus is overpriced Toyota trash for people who were driving Oldsmobiles 10 years ago.

There isn't a single Lexus or Toyota made today that exhibits a speck of passion or creativity. They are boring cars for boring people.

Are they built well? Sure. But not built as well as the Germans build theirs.

You forgot to include "in your opinion" as I mentioned I think Lexus or Toyota for that matter make nice cars as do Nissan for Infinite. The 430 is anything but boring thougg I don't see how the style of the car is any different then a BMW excluding the M5 or M3. And the lex costs half of what the M5 costs. Plus Lexus was rated the number 1 car customer service venue for car manufacturers. My dad worked for Jaguar and BMW for about 17 years and he swears by his Lex. Are you saying the Supra twin turbo wasn't creative? It would smoke any BMW

Originally posted by DefBringer
And you are smoking something if you'd pick a GS430 over any BMW other than a 325 or Z3.

Would you honestly rather drive a GS430 than a M5?

I would really love a GS430 but if given a car either the M5 or the Lex I would choose the M5..

Then I would sell it and but the Lex and pay off my 8!!
That is the only BMW I like, well yeah I like the M3 too but only the new ones. I looked into getting a 00 M3 a few months back and didn't think I was getting my money's worth. The new ones are pretty nice though. Sorry I love Japanese cars. I spent 5 years there and loved every minute of it!!!

This is kind of off the subject and I'm not trying to bash BMW cars. I've always liked most of their cars. Have any of you guys noticed that after a BMW gets a few years of it the dash splits all over the place? I have a friend that's a BMW mechanic and when I visit him at work I always notice that the dash on cars over 6 or 7 years look horrible.

Originally posted by druck
The M5 isn't a better car, its a 520 with a better engine.

lol

ok...next!

Originally posted by Bigcat44
You forgot to include "in your opinion" as I mentioned I think Lexus or Toyota for that matter make nice cars as do Nissan for Infinite. The 430 is anything but boring thougg I don't see how the style of the car is any different then a BMW excluding the M5 or M3. And the lex costs half of what the M5 costs. Plus Lexus was rated the number 1 car customer service venue for car manufacturers. My dad worked for Jaguar and BMW for about 17 years and he swears by his Lex. Are you saying the Supra twin turbo wasn't creative? It would smoke any BMW

Interesting you mention the Supra, I had a 95 TT. Of course, I modified it and could smoke about any BMW ever created...but it was still a boring car to drive, complete with over-assisted power steering and a "not connected to the road" feel. I guess people look for different things in cars. As an RX-8 enthusiast, I would think you'd agree that there is more to cars than numbers....

Originally posted by Bigcat44
Nope, I definately do not agree. I would take a Lexus GS430 in a heart beat over ANY BMW and I am not much of a fan of German Cars though of the German Cars I like the Bavarian Motors cars the most.

GS430 is great, but I'd take BMW 745i or maybach. In luxury things, no way can japanese compare to bimmer and mercedes. You should see all these safety features and some advanced car controlled features than new 745 has. machbach is a big dog tho. It looks great, and this is the car where its better to be a passanger than a driver. :D

Originally posted by Haris
GS430 is great, but I'd take BMW 745i or maybach. In luxury things, no way can japanese compare to bimmer and mercedes. You should see all these safety features and some advanced car controlled features than new 745 has. machbach is a big dog tho. It looks great, and this is the car where its better to be a passanger than a driver. :D

The rear seat passengers have much more room that the drivers in a Maybach!

Great car, hella expensive, but it's more in a class that I would call "performance luxury short limo". :D

Originally posted by Haris
GS430 is great, but I'd take BMW 745i or maybach. In luxury things, no way can japanese compare to bimmer and mercedes. You should see all these safety features and some advanced car controlled features than new 745 has. machbach is a big dog tho. It looks great, and this is the car where its better to be a passanger than a driver. :D

A $55K car is great, but I'd take a $80K or $300K. Cause you freaking would!

I'd take the maybach, it wouldn't be much use to me as I dont have a chauffer, though it is bigger and costs more than my house so I could live in it. But I'd probably sell it and get an RX8 in each colour, and use the rest to pay for gas at $7 a gallon over here.

Cheers
---Dave