thanks zoom, I wont have a prob fabbing up a reducer going from 2.75in to 4in

I wouldn't mess with intakes until you get the meth kit; Juan tried to mess with a cold-air setup and saw some insanely lean AFRs. If you change your intake, be careful and collect plenty of logs. You may have to have Dian send you a new flash if you change your intake setup.

Do you have a wideband 02 setup? Us florida owners like the AEM UEGO (myself, marsredr100, and Rote8 have it).

yeah for now Im gonna leave it alone... Moons coming by tomorrow jsut to check everything and see how shes running....

On that point I guess the computer's still learning beasuce the two times Ive stopped to get gas, its stalled about three times when I put the clutch in after fill up....

Hey Juan when you get a chance would you mind posting a close up of your engine damper....
Everywhere I look for it, its designated for 06-08's I'm thinking it will fit an 04 but just wanted to see if there were any little nuasances that I should look out for...
apppreciate it.

the engine damper will fit---DONT mess with the intake without proper monitoring tools--it takes only just a tad to get the tune all out of wack and the end result may not be want you want. no screens, no increase in length, nothing---! the tune has to be apples to apples--if you change anything about the intake other than the filter=== the tune will have to be changed also. Meth kit is not iron clad guarantee--although it helps one hell of a lot.
OD

what do you think about a shorter K&N, just by a half inch,,, K&Ns site is quite extensive,,

Hey Juan when you get a chance would you mind posting a close up of your engine damper....
Everywhere I look for it, its designated for 06-08's I'm thinking it will fit an 04 but just wanted to see if there were any little nuasances that I should look out for...
apppreciate it.

It will fit cuz mine is a 2004. See attached installation instructions. However, you will have to modify the bottom hole of the engine bracket per my drawing. That is because you cannot remove the bottom bolt due to the blower mount interference. I solved that by loosening the bolt and sliding the damper engine mount in between. Also, I mounted the damper bar backwards so that the damper does not sit in front of the alternator (a major heat source). I had to file a small amount of the provided strut bracket in other to accomplish that. I will post pictures on Sunday cuz I’m working 14 hours shift work until Sat night. :eyetwitch

I will post pictures on Sunday cuz I’m working 14 hours shift work until Sat night. :eyetwitch


Dude, that sucks.
Drink lots of coffee.

thanks Juan appreciate the insight:worship: ,,, looking forward to some pics

Thanks again Juan--i am headed there.
I am going to speak with Moon about the fuel starvation/cut issue. I know I have a fix--but it involves a little work, there are questionable fixs/therorys that i have formulated also--but those i am not absoulutely positive about.
anyone else interested? I think i am the only one tracking and if you are not tracking then you may not have this problem.
OD

I'm interested in a solution so if I ever have the problem I'll know how to fix it. I'm working on getting others interested in the fuel surge tank idea so perhaps it will get solved in the end.

Me too Im looking to track next season....

sure fix involes a surge tank:) thanks for the idea.
the trick is installing one and keeping it a non return system from the engine and keeping all safety features plus cold/warm start ups.
other possible fixes are just therories.
Check out my post in the Georgia RX8 forum--its long and I dont want to re type it here.
OD

to all that are following the fuel starvation issue this is where the talk is going on.

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=160288

beers :beer:

Just sat down and had dinner with Moon, we looked at some logs and he said shes running silky smooth ,,,, took alittle drive even though in the wet,,, and now hes off to have an off-roading weekend with Pat....

Just sat down and had dinner with Moon, we looked at some logs and he said shes running silky smooth ,,,, took alittle drive even though in the wet,,, and now hes off to have an off-roading weekend with Pat....

offroading with pat,

so that is what they call it now!!!!:lol:

beers :beer:

^^^^ lol,,,,,

Stage...????????

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/915/pb150002iu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1393/pb150003mr7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Is that the new Eaton blower?

Its a stock GT500 blower

Just looked it up, it is an Eaton. I was looking at flow rate not brand. Its a 2.1 vs the 1.7 in the kits.

stage 3 perhaps....

here we go!!
I now have a simpler solution to the fuel cut issue!!
Nananana:)
OD

stage 3 perhaps....

You can run ~13psi of boost on a MP90 for the 6 port engine and still be within Eaton's redline. That GT500 unit is most likely a 112. Either way, dimensions and snout on that GT500 unit would be difficult to package under the hood.

My guess is install an external oil tap for the current Autorotor units you guys have and spin the current unit to get to StageIII levels. The efficiency would probably be about the same as is on MP series from Eaton.

Stage...????????


Hmmm, Stage GT500?
:lol2:

You can run ~13psi of boost on a MP90 for the 6 port engine and still be within Eaton's redline. That GT500 unit is most likely a 112. Either way, dimensions and snout on that GT500 unit would be difficult to package under the hood.

My guess is install an external oil tap for the current Autorotor units you guys have and spin the current unit to get to StageIII levels. The efficiency would probably be about the same as is on MP series from Eaton.

Moon asks, is that a challenge, lol. Im positive the snout can be shortened, can you say cake. Also the redline on the Eaton blower is 18k. :uhh:

Moon asks, is that a challenge, lol. Im positive the snout can be shortened, can you say cake. Also the redline on the Eaton blower is 18k. :uhh:

Not really...we'll say I already know it can be done successfully, just not on that particular model.;)

Well thats the plan im gona make it fit. We started off with the 1.4s and only made 220 240 WHP. We went to the 1.7s and have what you see in current trim dynos over 300 WHP withought an increase in boost. So doing the math with a 2.1it should see 340 to 360 WHP withought comming close to overspinning the blower. Keep in mind that the 1.7s redline at 13k and stage 2 is 700 RPM short of its intended redline. Im looking at the blower at this moment and im sure I can shorten it and mill away a bunch off the intake on the back of the blower, and get rid of the butterfly bypass system.

Well thats the plan im gona make it fit. We started off with the 1.4s and only made 220 240 WHP. We went to the 1.7s and have what you see in current trim dynos over 300 WHP withought an increase in boost. So doing the math with a 2.1it should see 340 to 360 WHP withought comming close to overspinning the blower. Keep in mind that the 1.7s redline at 13k and stage 2 is 700 RPM short of its intended redline. Im looking at the blower at this moment and im sure I can shorten it and mill away a bunch off the intake on the back of the blower, and get rid of the butterfly bypass system.

340-360whp seems like a pretty aggressive goal. I think it's definitely possible, though. As for shortening the snout, you could contact a Magnusson dealer - as they are the extension that sells Eaton hardware to the aftermarket. They have different options for snouts, intakes, etc...may cut down on the custom work for you guys.

Sending you a pm...

if you are going to 13 lbs of boost--dont you have to be mindful of the exhaust port?
OD

Imight be mistaken but I dont think Moon is putting that on an 8

Ohhhhhhhh.
Question to all. I have been running the mazsport ignition package for some months now. I dont seem to be having a problem. Maybe its because i have a really good ground and maybe because we are running off the oem pcm and the dwell time is oK?
I have heard of others having probs with the dwell and performance.
Should I swap over to the oem coils or the ls1 /msd ones?
OD

hmmm, I dont know it seems like there is discussion that says that it runs alright, whowever there are plenty of people that have had problems, these being no more major than the oem coils have...
I have the Mazsport sitting in a box still debating wether to put them on or not...

Ohhhhhhhh.
Question to all. I have been running the mazsport ignition package for some months now. I dont seem to be having a problem. Maybe its because i have a really good ground and maybe because we are running off the oem pcm and the dwell time is oK?
I have heard of others having probs with the dwell and performance.
Should I swap over to the oem coils or the ls1 /msd ones?
OD


I vote LS1/MSD

My blower is now insulated from the radiant engine heat.
Two layers of Pettit's sticky backed heat shielding are wrapped around the super charger.

all the way around?
OD

offroading with pat,

so that is what they call it now!!!!:lol:

beers :beer:

yeah swoope...thats what we call it.... :rollingla
pics or it didnt happen???

http://www.fjbruisers.org/forum/index.php?topic=2193.0

there are pics throughout...
my rig is the white one...

Cool pics Pat looks like you guys were as happy as pigs in mud.....

Cool pics Pat looks like you guys were as happy as pigs in mud.....

oh yeah...and that hill??

moon was the first one over it...flyin thru the air...

he got stuck twice tho... :rofl:
i pulled him out!!!

:D:

all the way around?
OD

Bottom and both sides two layers, top has a single layer where it was exposed.

sigh, it's 40 degrees outside now....
:banghead:

Thinking of covering the I/C, after all "form follows function".....

at some point covering the whole SC doesnt it start to hold in the built up heat from the SC???

at some point covering the whole SC doesnt it start to hold in the built up heat from the SC???

That's a good point, but I would think that having no insulation would be worse considering how much heat the blower absorbs from that hot engine bay.

I think that Juan has reported consistently lower air temps since he insulated his blower.

BTW, my RP supercat failed (after at most 12,000 miles). I was having some stalling issues and I figured it had to do with the cat since they were intermittent, and a very hard rev would cause the problem to go away for a while.

I jacked up the car and removed the midpipe to discover a tennis ball-sized chunk of the catalyst waffle had broken loose. To make a short story shorter, I'm now running catless. The RP supercat is now an RP super-pipe.

I've driven 160 miles since, and have not had the issue, and the car seems to pull harder and is not any louder than before (still using the stock exhaust). I still have my stock cat-pipe that I will switch back to for any long trips in the future.

BTW, my RP supercat failed (after at most 12,000 miles). I was having some stalling issues and I figured it had to do with the cat since they were intermittent, and a very hard rev would cause the problem to go away for a while.

hmm Ive had the super cat for about 13K miles and the blower's run through about 600 miles so far, I've had the stall issue twice.
Both after hard runs, then driving for a while stoppong for gas, after starting it up would drive to a stop sign and then rpms would drop and stall, it would do this about three times each then no more problem...
I guess I need to get her up in the air this weekend....

hmm Ive had the super cat for about 13K miles and the blower's run through about 600 miles so far, I've had the stall issue twice.
Both after hard runs, then driving for a while stoppong for gas, after starting it up would drive to a stop sign and then rpms would drop and stall, it would do this about three times each then no more problem...
I guess I need to get her up in the air this weekend....

That sounds just like what I've been experiencing. Keep in mind though that after the reflash there's some potential for stalling while the ECU learns your driving habits, but that should be cleared up after a few drive cycles.

What's the highest MAF reading you guys have logged? I did 346g/s @8500 rpm today.

Wow, ive only heard of 1 higher, thats awsome.

I've gotten 322 g/s at around 8000 rpms, so that sounds about right.


http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/bastage_2005/RPMMAFAFR.jpg

hmm, I think I may have done better than this since, but I don't recall getting 340's.

303 sustained while pulling approx 7.8K in 5th gear for approx 3/4 mile(on the track:)
OD

ok i have a problem-----this morning started getting misfires--both rotors. car was running fine when i shut it down and the next morning this started.
anytime i put a load on the car -say more than 10% throttle-the misfires start.
codes po300-301,po456(have to tighten my cap!, and po113(iat). Would the iat cause this? Need new maf?
OD

I just browsed the cel list. Maf appears to be the most likely culprit, followed by e-shaft position sensor, intake manifold leak, low fuel pressure and bad spark.(pcm? hope not!)
I live around Montgomery, AL, and we had a big swing in temperature and humidity in the last couple of days. Could it just be moisture in the connectors? I love problems that fix themselves.

What's the highest MAF reading you guys have logged? I did 346g/s @8500 rpm today.

322g/s @ 8600 rpm on 10-22-08 :eyetwitch

ok i have a problem-----this morning started getting misfires--both rotors. car was running fine when i shut it down and the next morning this started.
anytime i put a load on the car -say more than 10% throttle-the misfires start.
codes po300-301,po456(have to tighten my cap!, and po113(iat). Would the iat cause this? Need new maf?
OD

It got cold up there?


Could you have an intake leak pre-blower?
To eliminate the wost possible problems;
Did you have antifreeze?
In the intercooler too?

yeah swoope...thats what we call it.... :rollingla
pics or it didnt happen???

http://www.fjbruisers.org/forum/index.php?topic=2193.0

there are pics throughout...
my rig is the white one...

That's nice but can we get more pictures of your toes? :eyetwitch

That's a good point, but I would think that having no insulation would be worse considering how much heat the blower absorbs from that hot engine bay.

I think that Juan has reported consistently lower air temps since he insulated his blower.

The insulation will provide quicker drops in AIT once you start spraying meth, lower AIT while spraying and it will prolong AIT increase once you stop spraying. Also, your AIT will be @ 5 degrees lower (no meth) while sustain cruising on the highway. It will not help if you are on extended stop and go traffic. :eyetwitch

it got cold but just in the 40's and besides on the way home in the 60's--still there.
i do get intermediate a/f's in the 15's so it may be ignition --but to both rotors at the same time? time to break out the voltmeter--i guess.
no intake leak.
OD

ok i have a problem-----this morning started getting misfires--both rotors. car was running fine when i shut it down and the next morning this started.
anytime i put a load on the car -say more than 10% throttle-the misfires start.
codes po300-301,po456(have to tighten my cap!, and po113(iat). Would the iat cause this? Need new maf?
OD

Start with making a nice doorstop out of your mazsport ignition solution. Then get yourself four yukon or msd coils followed by a pair of ngk 10.5 for the leading plugs and 11.5 for the trailings. I can crank my car (after it sits parked for a week) early in the morning, move it for less than half a minute, shut it off and crank it back up later with no issues whatsoever. Ever! :eyetwitch

Start with making a nice doorstop out of your mazsport ignition solution.

The Mazsport ignition works fine; as a base to hold the Yukon/LS1/MSD coils.:lol:

OD. I would go ahead and replace the Mazsport igniton setup with something else. Its not like you're gonna be able to buy replacement parts for it anyways(sorry, couldn't help myself!). I was having misfires as well untill a few weeks ago. I was running trailing RX7 plugs due to the recommendation of Mazsport(heh, go figure). I then switched back to brand new OEM plugs, gapped to .030. Wala, no more misfires, running smooth as silk.

BTW, i've been running the MSD coils for a few thousand miles now with no problems.

That's nice but can we get more pictures of your toes? :eyetwitch

how did you know they were mine???
they could have been moons....

:rollingla

I think 337 g/s is my highest (recorded one anyway)

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129280&d=1226997791

This is only during a burst, but it will set your head against the seat. :)

how did you know they were mine???
they could have been moons....

:rollingla

Are you kidding me? I can spot sexy toes from afar. :naughty:

Besides, I bet you dollars to doughnuts that Moon’s toes are packed with plenty of toe jam. :puke:

Rote8, what was the #?

yep i agree--worked with it some last night and I think i have boiled it down to ignition. Funny I have been running these since march?
Maybe its a wire--checking further.
new plugs gapped at 30 already.
only a po301 now and only with a little load. car is a little bit--not much--harder to crank maybe 4 turns versus 3 before.
i have a set of good oem coils, one thing good about the ms ign is I already have the connectors you need for the msd/yukon set up!! Already have the wires too!!
Summitt racing is 40 min away. The money is about 2 months away:(
I will just have to remove the ignitor box set up.

Ya'll call that offroading? COme on down to Ga and let me show you how it is done:) clay hills from caulk mining that are 200 meters high and at about 80% incline! All the mud and water you would ever want! I ran a cj5 with 36 inches and I had a loaf of bread floating in the floorboard!
Fun isnt it!
OD

yep i agree--worked with it some last night and I think i have boiled it down to ignition. Funny I have been running these since march?
Maybe its a wire--checking further.
new plugs gapped at 30 already.
only a po301 now and only with a little load. car is a little bit--not much--harder to crank maybe 4 turns versus 3 before.
i have a set of good oem coils, one thing good about the ms ign is I already have the connectors you need for the msd/yukon set up!! Already have the wires too!!
Summitt racing is 40 min away. The money is about 2 months away:(
I will just have to remove the ignitor box set up.

OD

Not sure if you're aware, but you can get 4 yukon coils for about $90 shipped from these guys:

http://www.northeastcore.com/

That's where I got mine.

This is only during a burst, but it will set your head against the seat. :)

I think 337 g/s is my highest (recorded one anyway)


Don't forget that, at the torque peak (where your maximum MAF readings are occurring), the S/C is using 30 - 40 g/sec just to power itself, so you have to deduct that from your net power calculation.

Rote8, what was the #?

looks like 361.04 g/s

yep i agree--worked with it some last night and I think i have boiled it down to ignition. Funny I have been running these since march?

OD

Interested to see if the MS coils are your problem - they didn't last long if it is !!!

Don't forget that, at the torque peak (where your maximum MAF readings are occurring), the S/C is using 30 - 40 g/sec just to power itself, so you have to deduct that from your net power calculation.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but we are discussing the maximum g/s which usually occurs @8500 rpm.

Where did you read that the S/C uses 30-40g/sec to power itself?? Isn't that like 30-40crankhp??

it was the coils:(--installed the oem set and she is purring.
Damn expensive lesson. coil wires metered out ok so i can use them
Thanks Bastage i did not know that --yhay helps one heck of a lot!!
just added a little anti freeze --getting down to 26 tonight--were the hell did this come from?
Too early to tell but i actually thing the car is running better with the oem coils.
damn expensive lesson.
oh well i got such a good deal on a transmission--low mileage--- that i guess it makes up for it.
Welcome back MM:)
OD

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but we are discussing the maximum g/s which usually occurs @8500 rpm.

That is pretty late, but that is also a characteristic of the S/C. It pushes more air on RPM, rather than engine demand. Compare the torque curves for a visual on that.


Where did you read that the S/C uses 30-40g/sec to power itself?? Isn't that like 30-40crankhp??

What do you mean "read"?
That is what it uses at peak load, minimum. It is probably closer to 50 in this application. It pulls nearly 1.5 HP at idle!

That is why you see roughly equivalent net power between the turbo and the S/C with such a wide airflow discrepancy.
The 6 - 10 HP the turbo takes out of the net power is already built into the metered airflow.

it was the coils:(--installed the oem set and she is purring.
Damn expensive lesson. coil wires metered out ok so i can use them
Thanks Bastage i did not know that --yhay helps one heck of a lot!!
just added a little anti freeze --getting down to 26 tonight--were the hell did this come from?
Too early to tell but i actually thing the car is running better with the oem coils.
damn expensive lesson.
oh well i got such a good deal on a transmission--low mileage--- that i guess it makes up for it.
Welcome back MM:)
OD

Remember, you can use the Mazsport coil bracket to mount LS1/MSD coils... :yelrotflm

Rote8, what was the #?
That one was 361, my best ever (so far) was 369
I wonder what the MAF tops out at?

I need to upgrade my coils and injectors soon....
Working on doing both by next month.:rollingla

I wonder what the MAF tops out at?

Technically, it tops out at 365 g/sec on the OE scale.

However, your flash may extend that, depending on what your tuner did.

Asked this in a SC vs turbo thread bit didn't get a real answer. Hoping you guys can offer your perspective.

I've seen all of the charts and have read a fair amount about both SC and Turbo options but have not driven either (none avail in my area). Would like some perspective from those that have actually driven both. Looking for "driveability and feel" differences for a DD. I assume that the numbers only tell part of the story. Please tell me the rest. How is the Petit SC experience different than the turbo experience on the road and track? Thx

Both are pretty smooth with nice power coming on quicker than the feel in an NA , the TC car Ive been in I would describe as a little bit more raw in that when it hit boost it kicked ya in the but, the SC that we drive in here has that warp drive feel with the power feeling coming higher in the RPM range, I would say the TC gives you a torqier feeling,,,
Sorry I got distacted in your other thread by someone trying to describe the feeling without being in either,,,

You can run ~13psi of boost on a MP90 for the 6 port engine and still be within Eaton's redline. That GT500 unit is most likely a 112. Either way, dimensions and snout on that GT500 unit would be difficult to package under the hood.

My guess is install an external oil tap for the current Autorotor units you guys have and spin the current unit to get to StageIII levels. The efficiency would probably be about the same as is on MP series from Eaton.



you and your fancy "books". get a clue buddy.:wavey:

yeah I've been in a couple of Turbo 8s and a couple of Pettit SC ones.

On a track day I was driving a SC car and rode in a Greddy turbo one.

The Greddy install was hell though with heat soak making it like driving in a sauna! I actually felt sick after 2 laps.

The Greddy owner rode in mine and said he felt it was pulling better than his car, but without longer comparisons actually driving the cars, I cant say much more. He said he lost power quickly due to heat issues.

I do love my SC car though, in my opinion it's like a perfect RX8 now!
Unfortunately, someone rear ended me, so its in the garage, and I'm missing it a lot!!!! BOOO!

Asked this in a SC vs turbo thread bit didn't get a real answer. Hoping you guys can offer your perspective.

I've seen all of the charts and have read a fair amount about both SC and Turbo options but have not driven either (none avail in my area). Would like some perspective from those that have actually driven both. Looking for "driveability and feel" differences for a DD. I assume that the numbers only tell part of the story. Please tell me the rest. How is the Petit SC experience different than the turbo experience on the road and track? Thx

The S/C torque curve is flat, almost a table top.
This means it moves from the low end of the curve to the high end very easily.

And the "SC takes 30 to 40 HP"; two things to remember:
(I think some people already knew them too):nono:
The Lysholm blower is a small twisted screw type, running close to it's sweet spot for efficiency, not the large 8-71 Roots type blower used for your "30 to 40 HP" calculation.
I expect the Pettit blower to draw less than 15 to 20 HP, even when spinning under load at 16,000 RPM.
The bypass valve opens when the engine does not need boost, when fully open, the S/C is free from load uses less than 3/4 HP to turn the screws.

There is no free lunch with boost verses sacrificial power loss, a theoretical Turbonique style "rocket powered" turbo configuration, to completely remove the exhaust restriction caused by the turbo's impeller, would get back more than "6 to 10" HP. (Turbonique was awesome in the early 60s):)

As for which is better; S/C or Turbo?
I say, boosted is better than N/A any day.

I hope everyone had anti-freeze in any liquid to air inter coolers last night.
I forgot; I had to remove some water, add anti-freeze and recirculate for 20 minutes after dark last night.

That is pretty late, but that is also a characteristic of the S/C. It pushes more air on RPM, rather than engine demand. Compare the torque curves for a visual on that.




What do you mean "read"?
That is what it uses at peak load, minimum. It is probably closer to 50 in this application. It pulls nearly 1.5 HP at idle!

That is why you see roughly equivalent net power between the turbo and the S/C with such a wide airflow discrepancy.
The 6 - 10 HP the turbo takes out of the net power is already built into the metered airflow.

I would like to see where you have documented how it uses 40-50hp at max load. If you have allready posted it somewhere before, would you mind directing me to that particular thread?

The S/C torque curve is flat, almost a table top.
This means it moves from the low end of the curve to the high end very easily.

And the "SC takes 30 to 40 HP"; two things to remember:
(I think some people already knew them too):nono:
The Lysholm blower is a small twisted screw type, running close to it's sweet spot for efficiency, not the large 8-71 Roots type blower used for your "30 to 40 HP" calculation.
I expect the Pettit blower to draw less than 15 to 20 HP, even when spinning under load at 16,000 RPM.
The bypass valve opens when the engine does not need boost, when fully open, the S/C is free from load uses less than 3/4 HP to turn the screws.

There is no free lunch with boost verses sacrificial power loss, a theoretical Turbonique style "rocket powered" turbo configuration, to completely remove the exhaust restriction caused by the turbo's impeller, would get back more than "6 to 10" HP. (Turbonique was awesome in the early 60s):)

As for which is better; S/C or Turbo?
I say, boosted is better than N/A any day.

Well said. Regardless of what route you choose, there is allways some sort of compromise. Where do you want your restriction, intake or exhaust? Do you want higher peak #/s, or a torque curve as flat as a table from 0-redline?? Bottom line is both are enjoyable.

Now, rx8thunder, please keep the TC vs. SC conversation in its proper thread. It has been done to death over here.

Thanks. -Yambo.

That one was 361, my best ever (so far) was 369
I wonder what the MAF tops out at?

I need to upgrade my coils and injectors soon....
Working on doing both by next month.:rollingla

Awesome! Not bad for "only" 8lbs of boost. Where will you get the injectors from?

-Yambo

I would like to see where you have documented where it uses 40-50hp at max load. If you have allready posted it somewhere before, would you mind directing me to that particular thread?

It's documented in his colon. You'd need a flashlight, and a full hazmat suit to see it. ;)

Seriously. I want to see Norm's car on a dyno. He did something to it, and it's just sick now.

yeah 369 is mental!

I think I know what he did.

on track the s.c. can get great performance with a adverage lower rpm . i rarely go over 7.5K on the car. less rpm's means less heat which is good for all. Also less strain on drivetrain. It suits me fine--turbo's are great just a little differant animal.
You would have to set the boost properly so the power delivery would be smooth
"power "kicks" on the track is not a good idea.
OD

Tend to agree with you about the power "kick" being a bad thing on the track with a turbo. I'll be starting my learning curve on that next week .
As far as heat soak mentioned above goes i think that would come down to how the turbo is set up . I am thinking a lot of early turbo users ran at lower pressures and high rpm which is counter productive for heat soak issues as it puts the turbo well outside its efficiency curve . (yes- i just learned this)

you and your fancy "books". get a clue buddy.:wavey:

That's it you're fired from being project photographer, and back to being parts monkey.

I think I know what he did.

Idont think I was told what he did ,,, i cant say , but I cant wiat for mine to be able to do that either,,,,

Thanks for the feedback guys. I do get that there is no perfect option. I am very encouraged about what I hear about the SC in terms of it's unique characteristics. I also found this post on Yahoo! interesting...
(http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080313210100AAr33ii)

"Either choice is good depending on how you want to change the engine characteristics.

Turbo's can give the Renesis more overall HP and torque, but the power will be "peaky". You will gain little in the lower RPM band, have a huge spike of power in the middle band, and then die off around 6500 - 7000 RPM. This is because the turbo won't respond and give any appreciable boost until 3K - 4K RPM...completely normal for a turbo. Then the turbo will be able to create large airflow, but only up to perhaps 6K RPM where it will be producing its maximum flow. Then power drops off as you have the same airmass but the higher RPM's mean less shared air available per combustion cycle.

This is too bad as the motor runs to 9K+ RPM and the tertiary intake ports don't even open until 7200 RPM.

You can get turbo's that can flow enough air to allow proper chamber filling at the higher RPM's, but they'll take longer to respond and boost may not appear until 5-6K RPM.

The superchargers designed for the RX8 have been designed with the extended RPM range of the Renesis in mind. You'll have a better low end as they produce boost all the time, just not as much low down as it's not spinning as fast, and the airflow can keep increasing with RPM right up to 9K. But you won't get as much mid-range power as the turbo as boost & airmass is related to RPM.

So the turbo will give you more total HP, mainly in the middle RPM band and change the way power is delivered. The SC will give a lower overall power increase, but it will be distributed more evenly across the RPM band and the motor's response will feel much the same as now, just with more grunt everywhere."

That information is actually incorrect - but whatever.

If you are leaning SC; then go with it - I bet you will be perfectly happy.
If you are leaning turbo; get the right size and go with it - I bet you will be perfectly happy.

If you think one is superior to another - great; go with it...

If you want to know more about Forced Induction; then do the legwork. But honestly for a street driven car; within +-30 HP; I bet they feel pretty much the same.

Idont think I was told what he did ,,, i cant say , but I cant wiat for mine to be able to do that either,,,,

If he did what i think, you don't think you were told but cant' say, I may have allready done......then he will definately need larger injectors.

That information is actually incorrect - but whatever.

If you are leaning SC; then go with it - I bet you will be perfectly happy.
If you are leaning turbo; get the right size and go with it - I bet you will be perfectly happy.

If you think one is superior to another - great; go with it...

If you want to know more about Forced Induction; then do the legwork. But honestly for a street driven car; within +-30 HP; I bet they feel pretty much the same.

That is what we have been trying to tell him. Again, rx8thunder, we're all glad you will be going FI and will help you if you need it, but there are plenty of other threads dedicated to this topic. Please post your turbo questions there.

-Yambo

Does anyone ever actually read the stuff that is already up here about how this stuff actually works?

Just looking at the "Dyno Comparison" should be adequate in dispelling junk like this (http://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?p=2733233&postcount=3591).

That is pretty late, but that is also a characteristic of the S/C. It pushes more air on RPM, rather than engine demand. Compare the torque curves for a visual on that.




What do you mean "read"?
That is what it uses at peak load, minimum. It is probably closer to 50 in this application. It pulls nearly 1.5 HP at idle!

That is why you see roughly equivalent net power between the turbo and the S/C with such a wide airflow discrepancy.
The 6 - 10 HP the turbo takes out of the net power is already built into the metered airflow.

1.5 HP at idle, hmm, guess you forgot to pull the spring out of the bypass valve. ??? what engine number are you on, was it 5 or correct me if im wrong or was it 6, not bad, thats almost a motor or 2 a year, good thing you can get parts so cheap.

I would like to see where you have documented how it uses 40-50hp at max load. If you have allready posted it somewhere before, would you mind directing me to that particular thread?

I have documentation on Lysholm units. They typically draw 5hp more than the Autorotor ones. Off the top of my head the RX-8 draw from Lysholm was around 30hp at 8psi.

1.5 HP at idle, hmm, guess you forgot to pull the spring out of the bypass valve. ??? what engine number are you on, was it 5 or correct me if im wrong or was it 6, not bad, thats almost a motor or 2 a year, good thing you can get parts so cheap.

here we go ......................

here we go ......................

Do Until [Tired of BS] = "yes"
Call SC_is_mo_better_science()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call TC_is_mo_better_science()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call not_ugh()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call uhh_huh()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call various_dyno_proof()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call various_dyno_rebuttals()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call circular_logic()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call other_poster_is_a_poo_poo_head_and_fanboi()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Loop


There - just run this little program to find out what happens.

can "poo poo head" really be used in programing terminology ?

Hell yeah - I used to use it all the time.

My Software button Says "Optimize My Fuel Bitch!!!" on it; so the precedent is there....

I have documentation on Lysholm units. They typically draw 5hp more than the Autorotor ones. Off the top of my head the RX-8 draw from Lysholm was around 30hp at 8psi.

That is substantially less, IMO, than the 50hp posted earlier.

Do Until [Tired of BS] = "yes"
Call SC_is_mo_better_science()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call TC_is_mo_better_science()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call not_ugh()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call uhh_huh()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call various_dyno_proof()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call various_dyno_rebuttals()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call circular_logic()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Call other_poster_is_a_poo_poo_head_and_fanboi()
If Postcount On Subject < 100 Then [Tired of BS] = "no" Else [Tired of BS] = "yes" End If
Loop


There - just run this little program to find out what happens.

lol:yelrotflm :yelrotflm :yelrotflm sad but true....
Moon I thought you said you were gonna behave.....

And if you look at the factory units and the way they configure them for testing your going to see a SPRING loaded bypass valve so 1 1/2 HP isnt going to be the load at idle with the Pettit setup maybe 1/2. As for PSI rating, you have to take flow rate into consideration, if you allow as much airflow that your intake can except your never going to see 30 psi withought overspinning the blower and or engine. Would you like to take a wild guess what your tac would read to see 30 psi and not overspin the 1.7. Not that your overspinning the 1.7, your about 700 RPM short at 9K. Why do you think im trying a bigger blower???? What if its going to make 25 psi and not overspin. :wavey:

what the fella said is true in general terms --any fi system can be set up good or bad. Turbos can develop power at low rpms, s.c can get up top power--just all depends. Its like cooking spaghetti.
OD

well winter is really here in Ga--so I have an ignition system to build---the ms coils actually spec out ok and they sure look stout enough--the igniter box may have been the problem--wonder if i could just hook them up without an igniter box? They have 3 pin d type connectors.
Thoughts ?
I also have a fuel starvation/cut fix to work on(stay tuned someone will have to post pics for me!) and I do have a plan!
OD

I made this one this morning, the screen shot number is clearer on this picture.
Almost my best ever MAF reading.

:) :) :) :)

well winter is really here in Ga--so I have an ignition system to build---the ms coils actually spec out ok and they sure look stout enough--the igniter box may have been the problem--wonder if i could just hook them up without an igniter box? They have 3 pin d type connectors.
Thoughts ?
I also have a fuel starvation/cut fix to work on(stay tuned someone will have to post pics for me!) and I do have a plan!
OD

I don't think they'll work that way.

Just get the yukon coils, they're cheaper than the OEM ones and are much better. Send Juan a PM about the connectors (4-pin), or give Ray a call and he'll hook you up.

Seriously. I want to see Norm's car on a dyno.

I need the larger injectors, my thought is the stock secondary ones from a four port.
I can also put out the stock coils spark like a candle in a tornado.

It would be fun to "see what it does", before doing the above mods.

I made this one this morning, the screen shot number is clearer on this picture.
Almost my best ever MAF reading.

:) :) :) :)

:bowdown:

I made this one this morning, the screen shot number is clearer on this picture.
Almost my best ever MAF reading.

:) :) :) :)

shizzle tits!!!

:fruit: :fruit: :fruit:

Hesus Christos! That's a lot of MAF!

Is yours just a stock setup, or what else have you done. With that much flow you must be getting into the fuel / spark / injectors issues no?

Hesus Christos! That's a lot of MAF!

Is yours just a stock setup, or what else have you done. With that much flow you must be getting into the fuel / spark / injectors issues no?

I am hopeful it's not the "fuel", I am planning on changing secondary injectors and going with LS1 coils.

I am itching to get a dyno reading.

may also look at fuel pressure issues!
what gear was that pull?
you on oem ignition?
OD

Just for your edification, this is what the MAF/Load values are for my turbo car at 9 PSI:

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129360&stc=1&d=1227227118

This is just a casual rip through second and third on my street. Didn't even take it to redline.

As you can see, the MAF is pegged at its maximum value (369 g/sec) so, who knows what its actual flow is.
ABSLoad hits 2 in some spots (also pegged) - all at considerably fewer RPM than the S/C.
Fortunately, the fuel calculations continue to stretch until the end of the available injector flow or this would all end very badly.

So, take your understanding of power and how it relates to MAF flow with a grain of salt.

Data is below.

nice MM, Nice

OD

may also look at fuel pressure issues!
what gear was that pull?
you on oem ignition?
OD
I think it was second, and yes, "fresh" OEM coils

For basic reference:

370 g/sec = 49 lbs/min = 426 crank HP

Give or take a few.

This is just a casual rip through second and third on my street. .

They must lurve you !

at only 9psi - holy carp - i'm at only 314g/s at 8 psi and 7500 !!!!

They must lurve you !

Well, not actually my street. Kinda the next one over.
The big one with 4 lanes and no houses.
I'm here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.303762,-112.091655&spn=0.001244,0.002358&t=h&z=19).
My personal dragstrip is here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.290683,-112.104192&spn=0.004977,0.009431&t=h&z=17).

at only 9psi - holy carp - i'm at only 314g/s at 8 psi and 7500 !!!!

Well, bigger turbo!

have you counted up how many swimming pools in your area ? looks like you have a choice for your back yard - cactus or a swimming pool

have you counted up how many swimming pools in your area ? looks like you have a choice for your back yard - cactus or a swimming pool

Well, it is the desert!
You can knock $20k USD off the value of your house if you don't have a pool.
I've got both. And a mountain.:)

Well, it is the desert!
You can knock $20k USD off the value of your house if you don't have a pool.


Wouldn't that take the value of the house into the negative given all the housing market crash :0 j/k

Cheers,
Hymee.

/\ nice one hymee:lol:

get readings in 6th gear over approx 12 second pull:) --mine was at approx 132.3 mph
you should have felt the G's as my carbotec xp8's clamped down( on 275 nittos)!!
You can see God sometimes in a braking zone.
OD

Just for your edification, this is what the MAF/Load values are for my turbo car at 9 PSI:

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129360&stc=1&d=1227227118

This is just a casual rip through second and third on my street. Didn't even take it to redline.

As you can see, the MAF is pegged at its maximum value (369 g/sec) so, who knows what its actual flow is.
ABSLoad hits 2 in some spots (also pegged) - all at considerably fewer RPM than the S/C.
Fortunately, the fuel calculations continue to stretch until the end of the available injector flow or this would all end very badly.

So, take your understanding of power and how it relates to MAF flow with a grain of salt.

Data is below.

Why would the MAF be pegged?? I thought you could just change the voltage and g/s on the MAF scale with the AP?

Why would the MAF be pegged?? I thought you could just change the voltage and g/s on the MAF scale with the AP?

I can. And I probably should.
However, this will change the scaling of the load value and, to be perfectly honest, the car is running like a raped-ape right now and I don't feel compelled to play with it until the race season is over.

My reason for posting that was to point out that the MAF reading, while interesting, is not particularly useful for computing net power output.

Wouldn't that take the value of the house into the negative given all the housing market crash :0 j/k


Somewhere else it might.
Around here, prices have only dropped a few percent.

get readings in 6th gear over approx 12 second pull --mine was at approx 132.3 mph
you should have felt the G's as my carbotec xp8's clamped down( on 275 nittos)!!
You can see God sometimes in a braking zone.
OD

I'm not sure what you are asking for. You want MAF readings in 6th at 130 MPH?
Why?
I don't spend too much time in 6th, other than on the highway.

Somewhere else it might.
Around here, prices have only dropped a few percent.
.

hmmmm was listening to a property guru who lives in Phoenix just yesterday - he claims Phoenix is one of the hardest hit cities with prices down from their peak as much as 100% in bad areas and 30-40% in good areas .

hmmmm was listening to a property guru who lives in Phoenix just yesterday - he claims Phoenix is one of the hardest hit cities with prices down from their peak as much as 100% in bad areas and 30-40% in good areas .

Not here in Ahwatukee. (Also known as All-White-Tookey).
Its just slow, but people here can afford to wait on the market, so the prices are stable.
Not a whole lot of people bought over their heads, either, so there are no forclosures or short-sales.

id say it fits, a little snug, but it fits.

Sorry Denny you were right,,, Moon was adapting it to the Rene...

Gonna run a Mopar-style shaker scoop with that?

Dont know yet, im just going with the flow. It still all fits under the hood, thats a plus but a set of bird catchers would look sick id say.

lookin good Moon....

Are the scissors optional?

Looks good.

id say it fits, a little snug, but it fits.

are you serious Moon ?
What happens when you try and take it to 'teh twisties' with that big ass weight up there ?

As you can see, the MAF is pegged at its maximum value (369 g/sec) so, who knows what its actual flow is.
ABSLoad hits 2 in some spots (also pegged) - all at considerably fewer RPM than the S/C.
Fortunately, the fuel calculations continue to stretch until the end of the available injector flow or this would all end very badly.

Not to derail this thread, but are you saying that rather than have a MAF that is giving you a proper reading that you tuned your car by manually adding more fuel in situations where the MAF is pegged in order to hit your target AFR? Isn't that a giant PITA, or am I totally confused about something here?

Not to derail this thread, but are you saying that rather than have a MAF that is giving you a proper reading that you tuned your car by manually adding more fuel in situations where the MAF is pegged in order to hit your target AFR? Isn't that a giant PITA, or am I totally confused about something here?

The car was tuned for less maximum airflow than this. As the ambient temps when down, the density went up and exceeded the MAF top end.
I would much rather tune for what it is seeing (and I will).
However, because of the way the fuel tables are set up, I get the proper AFR without doing anything (because of the LOAD balance provided by the other sensors), so I don't have to worry about it at the moment.
When I have more time, I'll extend the MAF range because its the right thing to do.

Are the scissors optional?

Looks good.

That costs extra :)
I couldnt wait to see how it would fit, made the drive that much longer.

are you serious Moon ?
What happens when you try and take it to 'teh twisties' with that big ass weight up there ?

Well, lets just say it offsets the driver. Its about the same weight as the 1.7s, havent scaled it yet but im sure its within 10 pounds, atleast my back says so. With a little more relocation I bet I can get a 2.6 in there, its only fatter.

Just changed/added a pair a AT secondary injectors to my car last night. I don't have a log yet but after taking the car for a short spin (12:15 AM) I noticed that my AF reading was @ 11.5 per my AEM gauge on a couple of 1, 2 and 3 gear runs. :eyetwitch

Are the scissors optional?

Looks good.

Never run with the scissors....

Heads up to Snow Performance injection users:
The Snow plastic nozzle holders will burst under boost pressure.

Gonna run a Mopar-style shaker scoop with that?

What you should do Moon is, do it up Mad Max style have the blower pulley on a clutch so you can have a big JC Whitney button on your shift knob,,, hell yeah that would be the shit....

That costs extra :)


Left handed scissors available for RHD??

It doesn't look that much higher than he normal pettit setup, looks like about an inch spacer is needed on the intake. People don't realise how low this motor actual sits. I showed my setup as SSX and someone thought it would need a scoop on the hood. Until I told them it all fits under the engine cover :)

Cheers,
Hymee.

Well, lets just say it offsets the driver.

It won't offset me. :icon_no2:
I could lose that much twice. :banghead:

That was the plan but theres no way it would fit. Im gona give it a week before I start mounting it, Try maybe a couple of different settups. The thing is it needs the output at that point to give you un restricted output. I see no reason that I cant locate the throttlebody as close to the intake as I can, and its big, I can stick my fist in it. The output is bigger also.

poor, poor exhaust ports!?
I knew ole Moon had to try on the rene--i would like to see the eye ball scoop on the hood! I will bet that a cog drive will have to be fitted on that dang thing. It will sound like the ole cruising days in the 60's! will need a bigger fuel line--dont we have the 5/16th
MM because you will not peg the maf in 6th gear:)
Rote call snow they upgraded the nozzle holders to all metal -they are free for you:)
Juan you always beat me too it! Fuel pressure ok? at what duty cycle are we at with the flash?
stay tuned for some fuel system/pressure work--soon as i get my yukons on--they will be here next week.
Anyone tried BK syncroshift?
OD

MM because you will not peg the maf in 6th gear:)

I peg it in 6th easily. I can peg it in all gears.

/\ you dirty peg

/\ you dirty peg

lol

I'll try to catch some more data logs in the coming days (6th at 6k+ RPM is always problematic on the street), but I will definitely get some great data out on the track next weekend.

What you should do Moon is, do it up Mad Max style have the blower pulley on a clutch so you can have a big JC Whitney button on your shift knob,,, hell yeah that would be the shit....

JC Whitney is the bomb diggity!!!
i used to buy all my stuff for the beetle from that catalog...
back in the day, that is...

:)

sorry to interrupt- i would like access to more pics from the set MMs current avatar is from. thank you

/gawking

just get a bfh and make a "power bulge" in the hood.

sorry to interrupt- i would like access to more pics from the set MMs current avatar is from. thank you

/gawking

just get a bfh and make a "power bulge" in the hood.

i think some of the guys in here already have a "power bulge"
even without a TC or SC...

:rollingla

sorry to interrupt- i would like access to more pics from the set MMs current avatar is from. thank you

Keep watching...:spank:

Anyone tried BK syncroshift?
OD


yes! it was in the car in may at rr. good stuff. i would say about half of it was in the car 3 weeks ago at rr. ;)

MOON.

cool, very cool..

beers :beer:

MM I was messing with ya--at what rpm in 6th are you pegging the maf?
Dont blow her trying to peg!
:)
OD

Just get the yukon coils, they're cheaper than the OEM ones and are much better. Send Juan a PM about the connectors (4-pin), or give Ray a call and he'll hook you up.

Check out the Mazsport coil holder with the new coils.

nice--that is where i think i am headed! wish they were red---might paint them!
OD

nice--that is where i think i am headed! wish they were red---might paint them!
OD

These are the plain Chevy coils, not Yukon or MSDs.
They all fit the same way.

Oh:uhh:
OD

These are the plain Chevy coils, not Yukon or MSDs.
They all fit the same way.

Actually, the mounting holes on the plain coils and the yukon coils are oriented differently.

I had to recustomize my Juansport mounting bracket to get the yukon ones mounted.

Talk about crapping your pants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9b8anjS6Xs

That pilot is a badass

i wonder if the guy running over to him was the one that put the wing on?
OD
one lucky sob.

there is no way that landing is real.

Id sleep well if he was the one flying the plane I was on, if he ever flys again.

That was a mix of real video and CGI. No way that really happened.

Guys, plan on using Cobb when I purchase the Pettit SC. Any issues I should know about?

I was having some issues with my AF ratios last month. Way too lean and one bad episode of detonation due to a faulty methanol solenoid valve. Anyway, I changed the fuel pump for a new one but my AF ratios stayed the same. Then replaced the secondary injectors for a set of 440 (blue fuel injectors from an AT RX8) and re-flashed the car. Everything is back to acceptable AF ratios and plenty of fuel at high RPM’s while watching my AEM gauge. Life is good. :eyetwitch

Talk about crapping your pants

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9b8anjS6Xs

Thats soooo CG'd Moon ..... :lol:

uh oh --colder air?
what caused it to change?
at what duty cycle are the 6 port injectors with our flash---anyone know?
did you place the auto injectors in the secondary's?
heck at 7.8K I am usually in the 11's in 5th 6th gear---all other gears low 12's at 78% throttle and 20 degrees timing.
almost pegged the maf didnt ya:)
OD

uh oh --colder air?
what caused it to change?
Not sure, maybe the MSDs???
For whatever reason my AF ratios were always mid 12s since the MSDs but it got higher after a year.
at what duty cycle are the 6 port injectors with our flash---anyone know?
I believe 100%
did you place the auto injectors in the secondary's?
Ding-Ding
heck at 7.8K I am usually in the 11's in 5th 6th gear---all other gears low 12's at 78% throttle and 20 degrees timing.
The log shows a soft first gear followed by a hard second and third.
almost pegged the maf didnt ya:)
:eyetwitch :eyetwitch :eyetwitch
OD
:eyetwitch

uh oh --colder air?
what caused it to change?
at what duty cycle are the 6 port injectors with our flash---anyone know?
did you place the auto injectors in the secondary's?
heck at 7.8K I am usually in the 11's in 5th 6th gear---all other gears low 12's at 78% throttle and 20 degrees timing.
almost pegged the maf didnt ya:)
OD
I was told the injectors are at 100%, when the MAF is maxed like that.

Just changed/added a pair a AT secondary injectors to my car last night. I don't have a log yet but after taking the car for a short spin (12:15 AM) I noticed that my AF reading was @ 11.5 per my AEM gauge on a couple of 1, 2 and 3 gear runs. :eyetwitch

wont you need to retune completely if you change injector capacity?

PS That vid is TOTAL fake!

txs Juan
tis strange isnt it--have you retighen your manifold--no air leaks --right?
you must have a differant tune than I---i never see 14 degrees of timing at 78% tps--i see 20.
you know you can speadsheet the ob2 data now? kinda cool.
I am looking for the blue injectors now--know anyone that has some for sale? Is there a compatable 480cc RC injector out there?
i dont like being at 100% duty cycle--especially on extended track runs.
DOnt need to retune just because of installing the blues--
I do wonder about your fuel pressure---hell i wonder about MY fuel pressure.:)
OD

Would someone mind posting a DIY for the fuel injector swap??

This was done this morning: :eyetwitch

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/bastage_2005/MAF.jpg

^^^Nice A/F ratio.

This was done this morning: :eyetwitch

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/bastage_2005/MAF.jpg

I'd like to see the TPS on that one, as the MAF looks kinda weird in the bottom end.

Cheers,
Hymee.

I'd like to see the TPS on that one, as the MAF looks kinda weird in the bottom end.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Is it consistent with letting off the throttle completely after I peaked? I did this on the way to work. I plugged the logger in right before that pull, which was done right as I turned onto the road leading to the parking lot at my job (I had to let off because I didn't want to drive past the lot).

I'll post it when I get home.

Yeah, that bit looks normal, I'm talking about the bottom end, in the first third/half of the run.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Here it is with the TPS:

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/bastage_2005/MAF-1.jpg

cant do screen shot---dont ask --- but at 130mph , 7581 rpm and tps 78%---a/f was 11.7---curves are smooth
OD

The MAF and the TPS match up perfectly, thats what Hymee was asking about.

isnt there a slight delay between tps/maf and the a/f's also--thats normal --right?

Ok for all yall fuel starvation/cut problems folks. I have a low cost plan to fix this. With those of us concerned also about track a/f's--before you jump to the blues--address your fuel pressure.
Unfortunatly i am not aware of anyone that has monitored fuel pressure on an oem system while on the track--so we are in a way flying blind.
I am convinced it is not a fuel supply problem as this is occuring with a full tank!
The location of the fuel pump is not good for track and the insides of our tanks is baby butt smooth. We also have a dual speed/returnless/venturi balanced system and the pcm helps to regulate our fuel pressure by turning the fp off and on approx 18k times a sec! When you start messing with a system like this --be careful you dont make things worse.
1st---DO NOT convert to a return type system unless you want to spend both time and money getting it balanced out. Not an easy job.
2- external filter is mandatory for symtomatic cars (why some have this and some dont is still a mystery--maybe they aint fast enough--lol)--advise this to be a cannister type set up(so you dont have to clean it every week!) and a 10micron size filter. The filter IS impeding flow once it has been in use awhile---some areas obviously has cleaner gas than others. Pre mix DOES affect this--more sediment in your gas the more effect it will have on the filter. by the way--if you aint running at least 1/2oz a gal you aint doing nothing:) a symtomatic pump assembley is down on output approx 30% during its high speed mode.
2- the venturi line dumping spot in the fuel can has an exit both to outside the can and inside the can--stop the one going to the outside up with a good epoxy. this site is shared with the fuel pressure regulator bypass flow. DO NOT mess with the baffles inside the can--leave them alone. You can enlarge the inside diameter of the venturi line just a little if you like--but it doesnt make much difference --if you do be sure you do not go to far up. You can see were the diameter gets really small--dont mess with that.
3- the fuel lines in the fuel pump assembly itself can be improved to a slightly bigger size and a shorter lenght--eliminating as many bends as possible. Use the right type of fuel line to do this.
4- install 2 trapdoors one toward the front of the car and one toward the back of the car. There is not much room between the can and the pump assembly so keep that in mind. install approx 1/2 the way up the can NOT at the bottom--we aint racing and we dont care about using that last gallon of gas.
5- trim the little tabs off the inside of the fuel sock --the tabs that will snap like a button at the fuel pump pickup spot--when i took mine out it was snapped closed--this relieves a very small restriction--make sure the sock(small to start with) is fully expanded --thickness wise--on reinstall.
6- at this time it has not been identified that the pump itself need replacement.
6- you can install a jumper switch to run the pump in a constant "high" mode" FOR TRACK USE ONLY. Install the switch so as you are getting out of grid you can turn it on and as you are pitting you can turn it off. do not run the pump in high mode while the car is idling or in a low speed operation. Mine is on the console with a guard on it.
This is a little work but money wise it is around $100. I am using the aeromotive 10 micron cannister type fuel filter and you have to buy a couple adaptors/a little bit of stainless hose- so your oem fuel line will hook up to it
This will fix the fuel starvation issues that are being experieince at over 1/2 tank full. 1/4 tank and below---I dont know. I suspect more work will need to be done for that.
yukons--on over the holiday---thanks Juan and all for the info on that.
By the way I got that ignitor box man R8--appreciate that and i will be analizing that system to see what is what--i owe ya one.
Olddragger

By the way I got that ignitor box man R8--appreciate that and i will be analizing that system to see what is what--i owe ya one.
Olddragger

Ouch that sounds painful.....:Eyecrazy:

Ouch that sounds painful.....:Eyecrazy:

Ouch - Especially if it involves the discharge of the coil packs.

Cheers,
Hymee.

na no probs--just started having misfires --both rotors--had the mazsport ignition system--think igniter box is the problem but am not certain.--meanwhile the yukons go on.
i analyzed a little more on the fuel delivery system.
seems that at wot and with injectors at 100% duty cycle the car with the high power injector set up has roughly a 37cc per sec
fuel demand--if you add the blues then you have a little over 44 c/sec demand.
now our pump is rated at 255L/hr at 45psi---BUT we are at 58-60 PSI so the pumping is down--maybe to around 230L/hr? This is only in the high pumping mode. That means the pump is supplying (with no restrictions) approx 63 cc/sec.
So with engine use/demand as stated that means the fuel can is being supplied by the fuel pressure regulator bypass of only 26cc/sec--not a whole lot.
now in the low speed mode the pump is putting out maybe 150l/hr (with no restrictions). thats a total output of approx 41cc/sec from the pump. so to the can is whatever is being left over. and depending on the tps etc whatever is left over.
The can does not fill well or fast from the little supply valve at the bottom.
so at wot and 100% duty cycle there is not much margin in fuel supply IF the tank is not full enough to go over the cup lip--i have no way of factoring the venturi tube.
this is further suggestion we may really need a constant high speed pumping mode while on track.
I dont want to think about this anymore for a while:Eyecrazy:
OD

Two bad we can't just connect both stock tanks with an AN12 line on the bottom and some AN 6 line on top.
Then put a "T" in the top and bottom line with a nice Aeroquip pump on the bottom line, and a return in the top T fitting.
Run a new half inch supply line and use the old factory line as the return.
Tap both fuel injector rails and T those to a pressure regulator.
/Did I miss anything?:uhh:
//It would never work....:spank:

Well, im contemplating going air to air with the IC setup. Any thoughts?? I can go either way, air to air or water to air.

Well, im contemplating going air to air with the IC setup. Any thoughts?? I can go either way, air to air or water to air.

What are your goals with this new SC setup? Are you aware that if you simply spin the blower we have now an additional 1500 rpm it would make @14lbs of boost and still be @500 rpm shy of the manufacturers recommended redline??

I would much rather see Pettit package a new pulley setup, with the proper fuel injectors and flash, for the blower we currently have.

-Yambo

HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all the Pettit SC owners....

:D:

Happy TG, almost forgot. :)


As for the over spinning of the blower I think you measured the wrong spot on the pully. Get the inside groves of the pully. The reason im going with the 2.1 blower is I want to test it out. See, when we had the 1.4s we had to over spin it 9,000 RPM to make the 8 psi we had but in doing that it was so parasitic and the flow rate was so down that we only made 220, maybe 240HP to the ground. With the 1.7 your about 700 RPM short of redline. So if you take the 2.1 and run it at or around the same amount of boost and maybe make more power, we wont know till its done. If my thinking is correct from the R&D weve done. With the 2.1 tacked it just might make 400 HP with a properly built rennissis that can handle that amount of power and boost. Im starting with a 1 to 1 ratio, That leaves me 9,000 RPM till redline on the blower to play with. Gotta go step buy step. Im thinking im going to need a new fuel system.

Happy TG, almost forgot. :)


As for the over spinning of the blower I think you measured the wrong spot on the pully. Get the inside groves of the pully. The reason im going with the 2.1 blower is I want to test it out. See, when we had the 1.4s we had to over spin it 9,000 RPM to make the 8 psi we had but in doing that it was so parasitic and the flow rate was so down that we only made 220, maybe 240HP to the ground. With the 1.7 your about 700 RPM short of redline. So if you take the 2.1 and run it at or around the same amount of boost and maybe make more power, we wont know till its done. If my thinking is correct from the R&D weve done. With the 2.1 tacked it just might make 400 HP with a properly built rennissis that can handle that amount of power and boost. Im starting with a 1 to 1 ratio, That leaves me 9,000 RPM till redline on the blower to play with. Gotta go step buy step. Im thinking im going to need a new fuel system.

These measurements were taken with a micrometer. Let me know if they're wrong.
4.7585 for the "crank" pulley and 3.2542 for the blower pulley. That brings the drive ratio to 1.46. That means we are spinning the blower 13140 rpm at redline, making @8-9lbs of boost(my boost guage reading).

Now I have personally spun the blower an additional 7-800 rpm using a "crank" pulley I "acquired". This produced an additional 3lbs of boost across the entire rev range, to include 9lbs at 3000 rpm all the way up to 11-12lbs @8000rpm. I couldn't go any higher as my fuel injectors could not keep up and I was experiencing some detonation due to not running any alky(That is no excuse, I know I should have installed the alky and larger fuel injectors first, but thats just me).

The point is that our blower size(1.7L) is more than capable of producing enough boost make all of us power-mongers happy. How hard would it be for you guys to test some different pulley combos along with different fuel injector packages for those of us that want more power and are willing to pay for it?? A lot easier than redesigning a system around not only a different size, but a different type of blower.

-Yambo

mork--no belt slippage?
i am interested in the 8K and BELOW curve.
no change in idle?

Moon on the a/a versus a/w--i prefer the a/w with the w/M injection. reason is the a/a takes up all the front of the grill--air dam area and it increases the work on the engines coolant system.
many reasons for one or the other--:)
OD

Of course there is belt slippage. The same way there is slippage now with the stock setup. If you're interested in the curve, take a look at our fellow owner who is producing MAF readings of 379g/s(although that is not optimal due to his stock ignition setup/lack of midpipe).

-Yambo

PS. Most of the things i've recently posted have been common knowledge(for some of us) for the past several months, if not longer. I'm just tired of trying to be diplomatic in the way I patiently wait for all of the "experts" around here to give me a product that I have been willing to pay for.

mork--no belt slippage?
i am interested in the 8K and BELOW curve.
no change in idle?

Moon on the a/a versus a/w--i prefer the a/w with the w/M injection. reason is the a/a takes up all the front of the grill--air dam area and it increases the work on the engines coolant system.
many reasons for one or the other--:)
OD

Well, the water air has kinda grown on me also, guess its time to relocate my battery again to make room for the hardware. Any thoughts on wether or not I should use 2 I/C cores.

Well, the water air has kinda grown on me also, guess its time to relocate my battery again to make room for the hardware. Any thoughts on whether or not I should use 2 I/C cores.

Moon, with that monster S/C you may need three I/C cores. :Eyecrazy:
I think we have the right idea for the short run, larger injectors and more spark.

What do you think is the best for sparking this baby off?

What size injectors would you guys recommend for the 350-400whp range??

Well, theres alot of options that you guys are trying wich sounds promissing, theres more then one way to skin a cat if you know what I meen. I was looking at a set of BMW coils that ive happened to aquire, I have more on hand if anyone wants to try them??? 3 wire coil plugs and I can also come up with the harness. Im not an electrical geniass but if you guys want to do the math on if there worth trying. You now whats funny, I have coils on my jetski that are half the size and work under boost, it tack 8,000 and there half the size. I have the ones on my truck, they seem to be pretty heavy duty but you never now till you try.

What size injectors would you guys recommend for the 350-400whp range??

BIG and maybe an added on or 2.

I was looking at a set of BMW coils that I've happened to acquire, I have more on hand if anyone wants to try them??? 3 wire coil plugs and I can also come up with the harness. I'm not an electrical genius but if you guys want to do the math on if there worth trying.

A plug in and go play; nice.

I wonder how much amperage the stock ECU can handle on the coil outputs.
I have seen a Chrysler electronic ignition box melt the rubber off the back when I swapped a stock coil for an Accel Monster coil. :icon_no2:

What size injectors would you guys recommend for the 350-400whp range??

Leave the primaries alone (at 290cc) for drivability and then put 730cc in the secondary and primary 2 positions.
That gives you 3500cc of fuel flow, which is about 410 crank HP (assuming only 80% duty cycle and a BSFC of .65 or so).
That's what I run.

I was looking at a set of BMW coils that ive happened to aquire, I have more on hand if anyone wants to try them???

They won't "drop in".
The dwell is different than the Mazda coils and the trigger value is different.
Been there, done that.

yukons--go on today---had to make a new type of mount since they bolt on differently. from what i understand the dwell on the yukons/ls2's are ok for our system. Whatever coils/ignition package is used dont forget good grounds(mm--i know--i know--:)
dont also forget to re-gap your plugs to 40:) You want to use that power dont ya?

MM with that size of fuel delivery you are still able to use the oem fuel system(pump etc) OK? Have you ever data logged any fuel pressure readings?
with just the increase to the blues in the secondarys the "left over" volume the pump has going to the can is minimal.

Moon put the water cooler in the back of the car then use the long hoses to increase cooling time//volume. The summit cooler I am running for the secondary radiator is low cost and very efficient--i like the single cooler concept--less pluming etc.
OD

1) "Re-gapping" the proper OE plugs is not possible. Stop using the "beam" type plugs. Their shrapnel potential is significant.
2) The OE pump will make 400+ HP when it works.
3) I have already established the GM coil thing. Did that in February. They provide more than enough spark energy (at the correct dwell) to blast through just about any charge density at the OE plug gap.

MM --know you like the 7's type plugs--and they do OK. I just like those overly expensive rip off ngk's
with the oem ignition we have been gapping at 30.
It would be wise to keep an eye on the fuel system. we have a 255 pump (at 45psi) but we are as you know running a little higher than that. plus we have a 5/16 line. It should be fine--but with the amount of wrench time and money we have put in these cars --i would recommend an external filter assembly---leave the rest of it alone--unless you track often then 2 little trapdoors will not hurt.
appreciate your thread of the fuel injectors--- we are using (with the blues at wot/100% duty cycle) approx 44 ccs of fuel per second.
OD

raining for 2 days and after reporting to work yesterday and being asked"what are you doing her----youre off!!" i decided to do something i have been wanting to do.
since all the "airbox" stuff is out due to installing my coils--- i modified the REVI intake box to fir our system. Not hard to do.
Just rip it to make a lid--remove most of the back panel--drill a second mounting bolt hole,--remove most of the front air intake channel thing--make a ignition coil mount--then use whatever fasteners you want to use to install the top and ta-da!!
The coolant tank fits better(more panel to bolt on to), no problem with filter etc
will post pics sometime!!
Olddragger

Hey Denny, when are you gona try that intake??

raining for 2 days and after reporting to work yesterday and being asked"what are you doing her----youre off!!" i decided to do something i have been wanting to do.
since all the "airbox" stuff is out due to installing my coils--- i modified the REVI intake box to fir our system. Not hard to do.
Just rip it to make a lid--remove most of the back panel--drill a second mounting bolt hole,--remove most of the front air intake channel thing--make a ignition coil mount--then use whatever fasteners you want to use to install the top and ta-da!!
The coolant tank fits better(more panel to bolt on to), no problem with filter etc
will post pics sometime!!
Olddragger

i will post up the pics if ya need me too!!! :D:

hey guys and gals,
:) first pics of my SC, not cleaned up but still pretty clean,,,,

verrrry nice Greg!!!....

a proud owner, i see :D:

Leave the primaries alone (at 290cc) for drivability and then put 730cc in the secondary and primary 2 positions.
That gives you 3500cc of fuel flow, which is about 410 crank HP (assuming only 80% duty cycle and a BSFC of .65 or so).
That's what I run.

Where can i get those fuel injectors??

Where can i get those fuel injectors??

I have a bunch of them here.

dude you powder coated the TB and alternator? Pretty sweet,
Nice set up.
Moon --you mean the one I smoothed out/made lighter and wielded the vdi up?
He--he well --after Christmas ---probably :) I got a feeling it may be just a little surprise.
I will probably do it when I install the blues.
SKinka baby--may send tonight!
olddragger

revi intake_1

did this work?
OD

dude you powder coated the TB and alternator? Pretty sweet,
Nice set up.
Moon --you mean the one I smoothed out/made lighter and wielded the vdi up?
He--he well --after Christmas ---probably :) I got a feeling it may be just a little surprise.
I will probably do it when I install the blues.
SKinka baby--may send tonight!
olddragger

OOOOO, explain further!!! I was looking at one the other day and was woundering why not remove that upper section and VDI, would make a little plennim for increased flow.

Moon--you never saw the pics off that intake i did?
See if I can find it.
That dang thing is made of some thick aluminum---what I did was
1- removed about 2lbs pounds of it!
2- polished it---puuurrdy:)
3- the big port (where upper meets lower) has a number of ridges in it and the vdi does NOT completely seal when closed---so I smoothed all the ridges out and epoxied the vdi closed and smoothed all of that---looks like a trick flow intake job:)
While I was smoothing this out I remembered the old funnel theory and did what I could being careful to not get the radius's to extreme. I think it turned out well.
There is some small stuff that I did to the secondaries and the apv (the pipes in that set up can use a little work--if you know what I mean)
4- drilled out some of the castings to vent it just a little more.
5- the reverse side of the vdi that faces the passenger side front fender? ground it almost flat so an ID badge could be placed! The other side of the vdi is now just a flat plate(remember the vdi is now sealed internally) and that cleans up around the fuel injectors nicely.
I do need to try that thing out.
OD

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129693&stc=1&d=1228056889
104_0022_320x240.jpg

In case anyone was wondering about the fuel filter problems we have in Georgia
OD

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129695&stc=1&d=1228058076
revi intake.gif

I think I did it!!
OD

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129695&stc=1&d=1228058076
revi intake.gif

I think I did it!!
OD

so what kind of AFRs are you getting with the revi then?

i wasnt clear--sorry about that---i only used the Revi box--nothing else. I like the clean look.
OD

^ why just the box? Why not the whole unit?

Damn Denny...that is one dirty filter...how long was that in the car?? I have a 2 YO filter that is almost perfectly clean........

i wasnt clear--sorry about that---i only used the Revi box--nothing else. I like the clean look.
OD

That is why I am using the stock box :) RB Revi should fit in nicely as well.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Damn Denny...that is one dirty filter...how long was that in the car?? I have a 2 YO filter that is almost perfectly clean........

Um, that is bad.
If it is two years old and not dirty, you have a leak or it is not working for some reason.

hey all,, ,
Looking at some data from this week...
Does this AFR look right to you guys, it looks a little 'spikey' to me near the rpm climb.
Edit - some more they seem somewhat consistant

Well, without any scaled axes on that graph, how are we supposed to read it?

Well, without any scaled axes on that graph, how are we supposed to read it?

Those number thingees in the center? :lol:

Those number thingees in the center? :lol:

Really? Are you serious?
So we are supposed to guess what the spikes are based on the values at the cross hair?

Ill pull it up on the spikes... give me a min
edit here are the spikes first reads @ 14.3, second reads @ 12.29 AFR

The first spike is at part-throttle, so it probably doesn't matter.
The second is just slightly lean. The rest is a bit too rich, unless you have really high charge temps.
Since you don't have load or manifold pressure (TPS is useless), its hard to say.
AFRs should get progressively richer as load increases.

does have a little bit of a hiccup there?
You know with my luck---today installed the Y coils--afterward the OD CAR had a skip under any kind of load---so wtf? right. So here I go--checking connections, checking plugs,
(by the way no more bar plugs for me--a set of the oems with less than 700miles on them were in the engine--in checking them i just moved the grounding bar ever so gently and the dang thing STAPPED RIGHT OFF--like a dried twig---seriously--no more for me!!!)---
checking it all. After a few hrs , it only skipped under a load so i had to road test all fix's, Guess what? ONE OF MY BRAND NEW COILS WAS BAD:(@$%&**&$^)_)))!!!
It was in the rear leading. SO I swapped out a trailing for it and all is good until i can get another NEW coil.
Go figure.
Was working in the dang rain too--just under a little pop up.

Dann--that filter was a little over one yr old--the stuff on the blue shop towel was oily feeling and you can see how thick it is.
The ONLY way to visualize the filter is to to cut it out. Convinces me to go to an external.
Olddragger

Since you don't have load or manifold pressure (TPS is useless), its hard to say.


I can post load, is the MAF reading in g/sec the same as Manifold pressure, I thought our MAF reading was air flow?
What would manifold pressure inform us of???

That stoich spike is just at the onset of positive manifold pressure. Its a hole in your tune. Contact whoever did your engine tuning.
The second spike is a transition point. That can be handled in tuning as well, but its not a significant hiccup - other than the point that it is at a kind of "dangerous" RPM.

thanks for the help Jeff...

my efi lines are not as smooth as the ones you posted--more jagged(fine tremor like)----maybe I need a grounding kit?
OD

I can post load, is the MAF reading in g/sec the same as Manifold pressure, I thought our MAF reading was air flow?
What would manifold pressure inform us of???

that spike under full throttle at 6500 is the aux. ports opening - not an issue unless you go over 9psi at that point . Dont ask me how I know this .

You will also notice that the point of the spike shifts closer to the 6250 opening point the higher the gear you are in .

that spike under full throttle at 6500 is the aux. ports opening - not an issue unless you go over 9psi at that point . Dont ask me how I know this .

You will also notice that the point of the spike shifts closer to the 6250 opening point the higher the gear you are in .

Thanks Brettus, I thought our ports were remapped to be oepn earlier, dont know where that got put in my head but maybe thats not the case...

my efi lines are not as smooth as the ones you posted--more jagged(fine tremor like)----maybe I need a grounding kit?
OD

I took my RMagic ground kit off when I did the install, Im gonna go back and re-route it, I measured the resistance before and after its install and it went from 41ohms to 8ohms. Thats a pretty big difference on resistance.

that spike under full throttle at 6500 is the aux. ports opening - not an issue unless you go over 9psi at that point . Dont ask me how I know this .

You will also notice that the point of the spike shifts closer to the 6250 opening point the higher the gear you are in .

Not that i'm agreeing with what i'm about to type, but i'm pretty sure Pettit recommends completely removing that valves vacuum line and capping it so that it never opens.

-Yambo

the aux ports are opened by the dc motor - not vacuum .

If you open them all the time the motor runs poorly at low rpm but better up top . If you dont open them at all you lose a lot past the 6250 point .

If they can be controlled via a flash to open earlier that is the perfect solution .....

But like i said earlier - I don't think the SC guys have a problem here because you wont be pushing a lot of boost at that point

Just talked to Cam Pettit regarding secondary injectors. I recommend giving him a call if you are looking to upgrade to a different set of secondary injectors. He should have some in stock next week. :eyetwitch

Just talked to Cam Pettit regarding secondary injectors. I recommend giving him a call if you are looking to upgrade to a different set of secondary injectors. He should have some in stock next week. :eyetwitch

Sweet.

But like i said earlier - I don't think the SC guys have a problem here because you wont be pushing a lot of boost at that point


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:fingersx: :fingersx: :fingersx: :fingersx: :fingersx: :fingersx:

:SHOCKED: :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED: :SHOCKED:

well no yukon'/ls2 coils for me. I thought all was well--found one bad coil etc. but today after driving approx 1/2 mile a dead dead skip with any kind of load--any kind except free rev. on free rev --no problem. cranks well.
trouble shooting reveals nothing that i can tell---plugs/wires, routing of the new matched connectors( i soldered them)--all good.
hell it is the same as the mazsport was doing, when it went bad--it was running well with the oem's when i parked it to swap over.
I dont have a clue what is happening---maybe the dwell is wrong?
anyone else have this kind of problem? Probably not.
OD

Just talked to Cam Pettit regarding secondary injectors. I recommend giving him a call if you are looking to upgrade to a different set of secondary injectors. He should have some in stock next week. :eyetwitch

What Cam should do is package them with a smaller pulley(and flash) and a coil upgrade,,,
I dont think anyone of us would pass that up!!!

well no yukon'/ls2 coils for me. I thought all was well--found one bad coil etc. but today after driving approx 1/2 mile a dead dead skip with any kind of load--any kind except free rev. on free rev --no problem. cranks well.
trouble shooting reveals nothing that i can tell---plugs/wires, routing of the new matched connectors( i soldered them)--all good.
hell it is the same as the mazsport was doing, when it went bad--it was running well with the oem's when i parked it to swap over.
I dont have a clue what is happening---maybe the dwell is wrong?
anyone else have this kind of problem? Probably not.
OD

Check the ESS to make sure it is clean ( and the trigger wheel too)...and try spacing it further away from the trigger wheel with a couple of .5mm washers and see if that helps

have not tried the spacing--thats smart---but all is clean and dry. No one else has had to do that? It is very frustrating.
why under a load? Unless there is a short somewhere? Nothing heard while under the hood and the wife wouldnt ride under there while I drove. No help there:)
So Hell---tired of trouble shooting this. Its back to stock for me---for now---havent got there yet--hope it runs Ok then--it was before.
OD

I had to do it to mine......:)

FI seems to make it more cranky?? Don't know why...did it with both my stock coils and my Mazsport coils