generally speaking the methanol is suppose to lower the a/f's. But I see where jeff is headed and it bears listening too.
The water will help with any detonation control as we know and by only running a 50% methanol water blend i wasnt too worried about it. Now when you start adding nitro----welll-----i dont know about that. Maybe Caution is a good word here?
Heck we have never tuned to gain full advantage of the water meth---and I do not want too:) Det control only for me.
olddragger

by lowering the a/f i mean a lower number---richer mix--just to clarify.
OD

Knowing the math and knowing practical application are two different things.

I think the wierd thing is that the combination of injection causes conflicting number's via AFR.

Just water injection will make your AFR's richer on the same tune - and make you lose some power. But you can get it back by adding timing and you CAN run leaner overall AFR's (ie. closer to 12.1 than 11.5).... of course if the water runs out; bad things will happen.

Then you add in nitro; methanol etc; and for me it totally monkey's up the works in my own mind! LOL

If you really wanted to take full advantage of all that stuff for power-sake; I think you need to read Baghdadi's timing paper (flame speed and fuel chemical make-up); in order to really work at optimum.

Well, what I began wondering which brought my entire understanding of the issue at hand into question was do wideband O2 sensors actually measure AFR or do they measure O2 concentration and then back that out to a known gasoline combustion ratio? Chemical processes including combustion have timelines and completion percentages. Mixing something 1 to 1 will not yield a pure result initially even if the stoich ratio is 1 to 1 because not every A will meet up with a B to react.

If that is so, can you really trust the AFR reading of a gauge used for gasoline engines when you are not in fact burning only gasoline? Maybe your AFR is just a representation of your lambda or deviation from gasoline stoich (14.7). If you were running pure alcohol only as a fuel and running dead on stoich for it, would your AFR gauge read 6.7 or would it read 14.6 because the mixture of stoich methanol should consume oxygen similarly to stoich gas.

Once I got to that point, I was glad I wasn't going to be running any non-gasoline fuel in my car and that my small brain could take a nap.

generally speaking the methanol is suppose to lower the a/f's.

Effective AFR perhaps, but not actual.


If that is so, can you really trust the AFR reading of a gauge used for gasoline engines when you are not in fact burning only gasoline?

No. That is part of my point.

Just to be complete; my references...

A Simulation Model for a Single Cylinder Four-Stroke Spark
Ignition Engine Fueled with Alternative Fuels
Maher A. R. Sadiq AL-BAGHDADI
Mechanical and Energy Department, Higher Institute of Mechanical Engineering,
Yefren-LIBYA

Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals.
Heywood, J.B.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
McGraw-Hill, 1989.

Theoretical investigation of flame propagation process in an SI engine running on
gasoline–ethanol blend
Hakan Bayraktar, Mechanical Engineering Department, Faculty of Engineering, Karadeniz Technical University, Turkey

WoW this thread just became to advanced for me. THANKS KANE:banghead: :lol: :)

Well glad to see you pop in again

I out-nerded myself again huh? Sorry...

There he goes, foot-noting again...

There he goes, foot-noting again...

Collaboration is important.:icon_no2:

http://www.rx8club.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123070&stc=1&d=1215125751

My latest update:
Running a 175 ml Snow perf nozzle into the MAF.
Using 1 gallon of Snow Boost-Juice per 3 oz of RC car Traxxas methanol/33%nitro-methane.
The RC car fuel turns the Boost-Juice opaque, bubble-gum pink, no separation has happened with this mixture.

I have boost juice seepage from the air filter; for this reason I cannot try the full straight methanol/nitro-methane mix. :banghead:
(Straight methanol IS Flamable; never forget this)
My next plan is drilling the a hole for the injector into the engine side of the inter-cooler output to allow full strength methanol/nitro-methane use.

On the plus side, the straight methanol/nitro-methane RC fuel is cheaper than Boost-Juice :)

Waiting for the next dyno meet :uhh:

uhhhh rote --do you have the w/m injector before or after the intercooler?
Be REAL careful with this stuff. Real careful.

On note we probably need to monitoring the egt's more so that the a/f's or lamda? Now some a/f gauges can be set to use a different fuel but not a blend of anytype.
olddragger
olddragger

uhhhh rote --do you have the w/m injector before or after the intercooler?
Be REAL careful with this stuff. Real careful.

On note we probably need to monitoring the egt's more so that the a/f's or lamda? Now some a/f gauges can be set to use a different fuel but not a blend of anytype.
olddragger
olddragger

I think you need to monitor both - just realize your target AFR is going to be different for your fuel mix; unless you JUST use it as a saftey net against detonation in which case you will likely make less power that straight gas.

On the EGT side; once you have your baseline EGT; then just watch for variations unless you want to tune a lot of timing changes (most likely on the dyno).

uhhhh rote --do you have the w/m injector before or after the intercooler?
Be REAL careful with this stuff. Real careful.

On note we probably need to monitoring the egt's more so that the a/f's or lamda? Now some a/f gauges can be set to use a different fuel but not a blend of anytype.
olddragger
olddragger

Now I am using 1 gallon of Snow Boost-Juice spiked with 3 oz of Traxxas RC car fuel.
With 128 fluid ounces in a gallon, and I am mixing in 3 ozs of the the 33% nitromethane flavor fuel, gives 1 oz of nitromethane per 128 oz of water methanol mix.
I have tested this mix and let it sit with no separation observed after two days.
My 175ml injector is in the MAF sensor housing, and that is causing the air filter seepage of the Boost-Juice mix.
I will move my injection point to right after the inter-cooler soon, then I can try straight methanol with the nitromethane.
I will start with methanol with "only" 5 or 10% nitromethane, and (maybe) work up from there.

Also, buy and use rubber gloves when handling methanol....


PS: I can faintly smell nitro in the exhaust when the Boost-Juice is running.....
:)

I have tested the Morgan fuels RC car (Green) methanol 15% nitromethane fuel mixing 50/50 with distilled water with unsatisfactory results.
The oil settles out of suspension, it looks like a lave lamp in the bottom; I tried this brand due to the synthetic oil instead of the caster oil used in other RC fuel.
The Snow Boost Juice seems to mix fine with "small" amounts of higher nitromethane fuel, but turns a darker bubble gum color.
I have went as far as 3 oz of the 33% nitromethane fuel in a gallon of Boost Juice.

Yeah, the nitromethane "works" on the butt dyno real well...
:)

sure sounds like you are having fun dude and it also sounds like you are being careful. remember the w/m system pump and filters are not made to handle any oil in the system. and be real careful of any possible "pooling".
Have you ever seen a top end blow? It aint pretty. just thoughts and concerns for a fellow car nut.
Kane thanks for the advice. I am running mine just for detonation insurance, but i do get a little more power from it probably due to the lower intake charge temps that are being produced. We have such long dang intake runners and so much radiant heat sources on this engine you just need something.
Oh by the way ---we soon will have the phenolic heat barrier intake gasket available!
and a note ---whoever said headers does not help this engine---lied!!
olddragger

Dey Denny
for what its worth....you seem like youre on a mission...and a good one to boot....i like your style and the way you communicate to the group....
with age, comes wisdom!!!

carry on mate!!

sure sounds like you are having fun dude and it also sounds like you are being careful. remember the w/m system pump and filters are not made to handle any oil in the system. and be real careful of any possible "pooling".
Have you ever seen a top end blow? It aint pretty. just thoughts and concerns for a fellow car nut.
Kane thanks for the advice. I am running mine just for detonation insurance, but i do get a little more power from it probably due to the lower intake charge temps that are being produced. We have such long dang intake runners and so much radiant heat sources on this engine you just need something.
Oh by the way ---we soon will have the phenolic heat barrier intake gasket available!
and a note ---whoever said headers does not help this engine---lied!!
olddragger

Denny,

Thank you for the concern, I probably will not go with much higher nitromethane mixes as this is all I need. (Till I get used to this power level :) )
Good info on the header, but I think whoever said that a header doesn't help was normally aspirated.
Heat barrier and intake/exhaust wrapping sounds great too.
Let me know when/if the heat barrier is ready for sale.

remember the w/m system pump and filters are not made to handle any oil in the system. and be real careful of any possible "pooling".

olddragger

Would a sign of that be Boost Juice dripping from the air filter?
:uhh:

I need to move my injection point from my current MAF location, to the output from the inter-cooler, till then I think I will need to step down to a 100 ml (from my 175 ml).

Just got back from a dyno session at Delirium in Kissimmee. Ambient temperature 95 degrees and 53% humidity. First run I kept it below 8500 rpm due to the extreme heat conditions inside the dyno location. Notice only 231 whp at 8200 rpm. However 5 minutes later with 50/50 methanol bumped it to 283 whp at 8200 rpm. That is 50 more whp by spraying 50/50 methanol (100 ml before the blower and 60 ml after the intercooler). The third run was with my RC 33% Nitromethane mixture. Just one more whp. I’m going back to the dyno shop on the 3rd of August and hopefully I will have the Snow Nitro Boost that is on back order too see if it really does what Snow advertise. The pressure is on Snow. One more note: Although the dynojet graph illustrate @ 8600 rpm on the 2nd and 3rd run, I pushed the car past 9000 rpm based on the car rpm gauge. This is why I don’t like to use dyno numbers to compare with other cars but to rather see if MY CAR is making more whp. :eyetwitch

---whoever said headers does not help this engine---lied!!
olddragger

You are right OD. See attached dyno (blue w/o header, red with header) and notice no only a 7 whp gain but notice that it took 2 less seconds to spool the engine to about the same rpm. That is the big difference between using the stock OEM exhaust manifold and a well manufactured header along with the SC. Now, I’m not even factoring what it will do in a ¼ mile but we will find out in August when Bastage and I (hopefully other SC owners) will take the cars to the track. This is why dynos are just one part of the equation and not a final power measuring statement. :eyetwitch

Holy Be Jesus man--damn! Yes i would say that is good proof about the headers!
mine will be here Tuesday and I am going to install the modified lower intake with a heat barrier gasket all at once--the barrier gasket is not yet ready but soon---i hope.

found a new heat source guys.
that octopus thermostat housing with all those hoses attached puts off a hell of amount of heat. Cover those hoses and seal them from passing that heat on back to the intake and you will be pleasantly surprised. Hell it even lower the alternator temps!
olddragger

Actually, all that dyno says is that you moved your torque peak to a significantly lower RPM.
You may have picked up a bunch of power, by that dyno doesn't show it since you let off as soon as it peaked.

marsredr100 good stuff, thanks for posting up those dyno sheets. Are the majority of pettit owners finding that they need to run water/meth injection in order to see whp above 260whp? Also I assume you're spraying prior to the blower to help cool the blower? If that's the case, I would have expected the air/water cooling system to be able to take care of the blowers temperatures.

I understand the 95 degree heat can put a strain on the system. With the hot temperatures in Phoenix I'd hate to have to run the water/meth just to get around town.

Has Pettit made any plans to include a water/meth system with their kits?

Actually, all that dyno says is that you moved your torque peak to a significantly lower RPM.
You may have picked up a bunch of power, by that dyno doesn't show it since you let off as soon as it peaked.

I’m puzzle???

Just to clarify. Both runs were done with 50/50 water/methanol. The 296 whp (blue) after installing the header and the 289 whp (red) before installing the header.

Also, the owner of the dyno was the one sitting inside the car when the dyno was done (dyno before installing the header). The guy got the car up to third gear and then he stumped on the throttle which was no to my liking but he told me that that’s the way he always does it.

On yesterdays dyno I was the one inside the car and I steadily pressed on the throttle once I got to third gear. You can notice that on both (blue) the power and torque graphs from 3500 to 5000 rpm.

The time graph clearly shows that the car achieved peak whp two seconds faster after installing the header. That might explain why I can spin my tires on first gear with the DSC on. In fact, I don’t notice ANY loss of power while taking off hard with the DSC on. This is why Bastage asked me if I disengage the DSC last week when we were messing around at a traffic light. :eyetwitch

marsredr100 good stuff, thanks for posting up those dyno sheets. Are the majority of pettit owners finding that they need to run water/meth injection in order to see whp above 260whp? Also I assume you're spraying prior to the blower to help cool the blower? If that's the case, I would have expected the air/water cooling system to be able to take care of the blowers temperatures.

I understand the 95 degree heat can put a strain on the system. With the hot temperatures in Phoenix I'd hate to have to run the water/meth just to get around town.

I’m spraying before and after the blower. 100 m/l nozzle before the blower and 60 m/l nozzle after the blower (just after the intercooler).

The car runs just fine in the 90~95 degree but the 50/50 methanol does start spraying as soon as I start driving aggressively. It is all controlled by the Snow electronic system included in the kit and based on the MAF voltage output. :eyetwitch

marsredr100 good stuff, thanks for posting up those dyno sheets. Are the majority of pettit owners finding that they need to run water/meth injection in order to see whp above 260whp? Also I assume you're spraying prior to the blower to help cool the blower? If that's the case, I would have expected the air/water cooling system to be able to take care of the blowers temperatures.

I understand the 95 degree heat can put a strain on the system. With the hot temperatures in Phoenix I'd hate to have to run the water/meth just to get around town.

Has Pettit made any plans to include a water/meth system with their kits?

I hit 283 rwhp without any w/m injection back in March. Granted it was in the mid/high 80's at the time, and Juan has hit 280's without W/M injection. It was just especially hot yesterday, and based on where he lives and where the dyno is, he had to drive through a significant amount of traffic to get there.

Pettit will optionally install the w/m injection kit with their supercharger.

Does Pettit do any special mods to the Snow Kit? I want one, but i'm not sure who to buy it from.

Does Pettit do any special mods to the Snow Kit? I want one, but i'm not sure who to buy it from.

Order it thru Ray (BHR).

Here is what you need:

Snow Performance Stage II kit
Solenoid
T connector for dual nozzle
One 100 m/l nozzle and one 60 m/l nozzles
A case of Boost Juice unless you want to mix your own.

You can install it yourself with help from your old man and I be glad to send a boat load of pictures of my setup. You got my number too. :eyetwitch

Order it thru Ray (BHR).

Here is what you need:

Snow Performance Stage II kit
Solenoid
T connector for dual nozzle
One 100 m/l nozzle and one 60 m/l nozzle
A case of Boost Juice unless you want to mix your own.

You can install it yourself with help from your old man and I be glad to send a boat load of pictures of my setup. You got my number too. :eyetwitch

^ +1

That's where I just got mine from.

Yeah
Ray has the complete bundle needed.

That certainly makes things easy

water meth injection is a great idea for set up for a few reasons. now if you do some reading about this thing it may confuse you some. a dual nozzle set up is good for this setup for 5 reasons. Many other people do not like a dual nozzle set up but they do not have our kit.
1st- it can cool the temps within the blower(but no one has ever found high temps within the blower to be a problem)
2--once the water in the intercooler has reached a certain temp it can actually increase the temp of the air coming out it(because the w/m has the air cooled lower that it!)---so the second noozle
3- we have such long intake runners there are many many areas that heat soak the intakes before it reaches the ports.
4- the water meth will actually help a lot with carbon buildup.
5- detonation protection help (its not a guarantee)for a fi rotary engine is a must.

Do not forget to get an intake temp gauge:)

Hey Yall how many grams air/sec are yall seeing? at 7.5K i am seeing approx 294.
is that about what all others are getting?
olddragger

Gray hair, HA at 48 you can't have too many gray hairs, your just a teen ager in the scheme of things. How did your injury turn out?

Still kinda going through the motions unfortunately. :banghead:
April 10th, break the heal and pull tendons loose on the bottom of the foot.
In a hard cast for two months. Then I get that off and wear the moon boot for one month. At least with the moon boot I can take it off and drive my car, so I've been doing that for the last month after renting auto's for two minths! :rant:
Went to the Dr's last Tuesday and he says....."okay, time to start walking on it, but only in tennis shoes and no hard athletic activity for the next two-three months". So.............. I get home(I have the moon boot off and in the car), I needed to grab something out of the house, so I leave the car running and hop(or try) to hop into the house. Foot catches the 6 inch threshold of the doorway and I go down really hard on the bad foot. Immediately collapse on the floor and writhe in pain for about 5 minutes screaming obscenities. Next two days are spend awake with no sleep and putting ice on it continually. After two more days, I call the doc and get back in there to insure I didn't bust it again. No break this time according to Xrays...........just a severe contusion of the Achilles tendon(insert your favorite obscenity here). Foot is every shade of the rainbow and swollen, so I have stayed off of it all weekend, and I think I've done no more than set myself back a week. Hard to tell with all the perciset(sp?) I'm taking, but I think that's it.
Oh...............as the car was running, I had to back it out of my parking space and pull into my one car garage using my right foot on the clutch and feathering it along with using just the handbrake! :Eyecrazy: That was interesting................just took it real slow. :uhh:

Damn I hope you heal soon I am dealing with an achiles heel injury now

Still kinda going through the motions unfortunately. :banghead:
April 10th, break the heal and pull tendons loose on the bottom of the foot.
In a hard cast for two months. Then I get that off and wear the moon boot for one month. At least with the moon boot I can take it off and drive my car, so I've been doing that for the last month after renting auto's for two minths! :rant:
Went to the Dr's last Tuesday and he says....."okay, time to start walking on it, but only in tennis shoes and no hard athletic activity for the next two-three months". So.............. I get home(I have the moon boot off and in the car), I needed to grab something out of the house, so I leave the car running and hop(or try) to hop into the house. Foot catches the 6 inch threshold of the doorway and I go down really hard on the bad foot. Immediately collapse on the floor and writhe in pain for about 5 minutes screaming obscenities. Next two days are spend awake with no sleep and putting ice on it continually. After two more days, I call the doc and get back in there to insure I didn't bust it again. No break this time according to Xrays...........just a severe contusion of the Achilles tendon(insert your favorite obscenity here). Foot is every shade of the rainbow and swollen, so I have stayed off of it all weekend, and I think I've done no more than set myself back a week. Hard to tell with all the perciset(sp?) I'm taking, but I think that's it.
Oh...............as the car was running, I had to back it out of my parking space and pull into my one car garage using my right foot on the clutch and feathering it along with using just the handbrake! :Eyecrazy: That was interesting................just took it real slow. :uhh:

Triple ouch!

Just wondering the assortment of drugs you are (were) taking the last few months. Yeah! :eyetwitch :eyetwitch :eyetwitch

marsredr100 good stuff, thanks for posting up those dyno sheets. Are the majority of pettit owners finding that they need to run water/meth injection in order to see whp above 260whp? Also I assume you're spraying prior to the blower to help cool the blower? If that's the case, I would have expected the air/water cooling system to be able to take care of the blowers temperatures.

I understand the 95 degree heat can put a strain on the system. With the hot temperatures in Phoenix I'd hate to have to run the water/meth just to get around town.

Has Pettit made any plans to include a water/meth system with their kits?

My understanding is this:
Water methanol is not a requirement for the Pettit kit, or any other boosted 8.
Most Pettit owners do not have the water methanol.
Any of the Pettit kits can make over 260 RWHP with a good exhaust. (mine made 296 catless)
There is debate on whether the water/methanol really does boost horsepower without tuning changes. (mine increases boost, I have not re-dyno'd yet)
The extra cooling of the blower seems to increase boost. (in my case to 10 PSI)
I have not heard of any blower or engine over heating from the Pettit kit with or without methanol.

With the temps in Phoenix, you should consider the BHR radiator, boosted or not boosted.

Rote8, you may want to dig a little deeper because at least one of the issues you cite has happened right in Pettit's own shop and that's why they are giving the BHR rad a try.

As for the other issues, Juan, Denny, Adam, and a few others are doing stellar work on fully exploiting the Pettit kit.

I have a track day at the homestead speed way next weekend I will data log all three sessions. I am thinking of doing one session with out meth just to see what the difference is.

Rote8, you may want to dig a little deeper because at least one of the issues you cite has happened right in Pettit's own shop and that's why they are giving the BHR rad a try.

As for the other issues, Juan, Denny, Adam, and a few others are doing stellar work on fully exploiting the Pettit kit.

What's the scoop?
Had not heard of any over heating due to the S/C.
The only issue I have ever had with over heat was due to an "upgraded" ignition system that the "igniter box" changed the dwell.
(Since removed and the car is happy again.)

PS: I am just Nitro'ing my Pettit kit.....

overheating not a problem for me at all--even on the track. i have only been talking about keeping the charge temps down--on the track the charge temps will go up a good bit and you will lose power IF you dont have the water meth.
what about my 294 at 7.5K grams/sec question? Is that about right for everyone?

olddragger

It's not due to the supercharger, per se, rather the barely-adequate factory radiator. When ya go stuffing another 40-45% air in the engine something is gonna show itself underrated. As it relates to S/C owners I am only aware that Cam is unhappy with what he has found available, radiator-wise.

I’m puzzle???

Thought that was RPM, not time.

The only issue I have ever had with over heat was due to an "upgraded" ignition system that the "igniter box" changed the dwell.
(Since removed and the car is happy again.)

So you overheated the motor because the dwell for the coils was insufficient ?
please elaborate .......

For sure...last time I checked the wrong dwell will overheat the coils.....not the motor??

Misfires and overly-retarded timing (both the result of incorrect dwell), will cause massive EGTs and that translates to overheating.

The misfires may not be the result of the dwell though. I have the proper dwell but I am still getting a lot of misfires.

The misfires may not be the result of the dwell though. I have the proper dwell but I am still getting a lot of misfires.

so we have been sold a pup :banghead:

what about my 294 at 7.5K grams/sec question? Is that about right for everyone?

olddragger

Around 285 for me before my header installation. I'll try to take new readings by Saturday and will let you know. :eyetwitch

I'm not saying that. My problem may be realted to the ESS but I didn't have the time this weekend to get under the car. I plan to put a couple of washers under the ESS to try and eliminate any "noise" it may be seeing.

what about my 294 at 7.5K grams/sec question? Is that about right for everyone?

olddragger

I've gotten 322 g/s at around 8000 rpms, so that sounds about right.


http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc7/bastage_2005/RPMMAFAFR.jpg

thanks guys--looking good--seems juan is a little leaner than us? He is in the 12's and we are at 11.1or so?
olddragger

thanks guys--looking good--seems juan is a little leaner than us? He is in the 12's and we are at 11.1or so?
olddragger


Juan IS running quite a bit of nitromethane.
Snow reported that the Nitro-Boost (their emulsified nitromethane) will lean the mixture.

A couple of logs after header install. Spraying 50/50 water/meth and 33% RC Nitromethane. :eyetwitch

A couple of logs after header install. Spraying 50/50 water/meth and 33% RC Nitromethane. :eyetwitch

I don't see how the Nitro-Booster can be different than the RC car fuel you are already using. Your system seems leaned out a little compared to the ones not running nitro... (Just like Snow said the Nitro-Booster acted)

I will be playing with mine on Wednesday, I hope to get my methanol nozzle moved and hope to get the dual nozzles going as well.
I am also planning on reinstalling my Mazsport ignition and checking if I still over heat with the methanol.

If it still tries to over heat, I will do my best to drown it in water/methanol/nitro.
//I have nozzles up to 275ml (100, 175, 275)
///I may also pick up a 60ml


All of us running methanol: you are changing the oil sooner; right?
I have heard methanol breaks down/thins out oil if it bypasses the seals and winds up in the oil.

All of us running methanol: you are changing the oil sooner; right?
I have heard methanol breaks down/thins out oil if it bypasses the seals and winds up in the oil.

All rotaries do. I change mine every 2000~3000 miles Royal Purple 5w-20. On my R100 Bridge Ported 13B every 1000 Castrol GTX 20w-50. The oil smells like gas by the time I change it at 1000 miles due to the fuel it consumes (@ 10~12 mpg)using a Holley 650 double pumper. :eyetwitch

i change mine at approx 3 K or if it is dirty, before and after any track event, change filter every other time.
You still running 5/20? I was running rp 5w/30 for a good while and i wasnt impressed when i tore the engine down. The front bearing was down to the copper, all the other bearing were ok, it was carboned up pretty good. the housings were in terrible shape---wear wise--had checkerboard on the edge of one etc.
the oil pan was nice and clean and the insides of the rotorys were also
i went to castrol gtx 20w/50--no probs.
headers here today---soak the header wrap, install, getting shielding for the midpipe to protect the trans/floorboards and making heat dispensers for my o2 sensors.
install my reworked lower intake manifold--if i can do that without removing the engine. would you believe i painted the apv valves and the secondary valve? after i worked them a little. I secured the vdi plates and ported the entire upper ports--that turned out nice. i have polished the entire piece and now have brain damage from all that aluminum dust. wish i knew how to post a pic. its pretty:)

has anyone looked into an engine damper yet? i am getting pretty good engine movement on full throttle blips.
olddragger

has anyone looked into an engine damper yet? i am getting pretty good engine movement on full throttle blips.
olddragger

Yep. BHR has an idea but there is a move to AZ coming in a few weeks so I'll resume the development once the team is fully operational.

You still running 5/20? I was running rp 5w/30 for a good while and i wasnt impressed when i tore the engine down.
...
i went to castrol gtx 20w/50--no probs.

olddragger

I use the Valvoline Racing 20W-50.
Have you looked at chaining the engine down, or using threaded turn buckles?

Na rather have a pretty little damper up there--so i can open the hood and go ahhhhhhh!
took a laser temp reading today on the midpipe and a reading of 400F was obtained near the 1st resonator. i see shielding in the near future
it was 97 F here today and i had to spank a little old man in a porsche carrera on the way home---was he ever surprised!
olddragger

wish i knew how to post a pic. its pretty:)

has anyone looked into an engine damper yet?
olddragger

if you eamil them to paulmasoner1@gmail.com i'll post them up here for you and you can further discusss what you did, with visual aid!

I know different folks have posted their findings before, but i'm lazy and can't remember if we ever figured out the best placement for the water/meth nozzles and what sizes to use.

So that is my question since i'm about to purchase a water/meth kit. Where is the best placement and sizes for the nozzles??

I know different folks have posted their findings before, but i'm lazy and can't remember if we ever figured out the best placement for the water/meth nozzles and what sizes to use.

So that is my question since i'm about to purchase a water/meth kit. Where is the best placement and sizes for the nozzles??

Juan has seen some good results with a 100 cc nozzle after the throttle body and a 60 cc nozzle after the intercooler. That's how mine is set up; well it will be once the solenoid, the T, the L, and the L-Nozzle adapter get here :)

Bastage is that something we can do at the dyno day on my car?

munche, how do you have your nozzle/s set up?

munche, how do you have your nozzle/s set up?

Yeah, what he said.

I'm assuming you only have one nozzle right now, and it's in the MAF housing, correct?

If that's the case, it would probably take a few hours, since we have to remove the UIM and the TB to drill the holes, and wire in the solenoid/re-route the tubes.

i took my pre blower nozzle off and just put a 100 post intercooler and could not tell any difference. So for now i am running just one.
i did heat shield the thermostat area and heater/radiator hoses--seemed to help with heat soak issues a little. It was 97 here yesterday.
olddragger

Denny, does that mean you are still using the one nozzle pre-blower??

no one nozzle post intercooler only 100 size---so far no difference noticed.
olddragger

Bump up to the 315 ml/min jet.

Bump up to the 315 ml/min jet.

Why?

'Cuz its the right amount of H2O/meth for a 300 HP car.
(Provided that the controller is progressive.)

One nozzel in the maf housing. I guess the dyno day is a bad Idea for that.

'Cuz its the right amount of H2O/meth for a 300 HP car.
(Provided that the controller is progressive.)

Juan had about that much flow originally and he lost horsepower. He's running 160ml/min and not losing hp, but significantly lowering charge temps.

Plus, 375ml/min is not what snow recommends:

Step 3 Nozzle Selection

Nozzle sizing is a function of horsepower, which approximates the
engine airflow, and boost, which approximates intake charge heat.
Recommended starting points:

250 - 350 RWHP: 175ml/min nozzle.
350 - 475 RWHP: 375ml/min nozzle
475 - 600 RWHP 625ml/min nozzle

Nice to see you're finally embracing the 300 hp number for a Pettit supercharged car.

315cc (or ml/min - same thing for water) is only for 250 - 400 HP.
A 630cc nozzle is for about 400 - 600.
The 155cc is only good to 250 HP at best.

You want to shoot high by 25% and dial back the controller.
Technically, I'm topping out the 315cc nozzle, but I don't need it as much as the SC does.

I wanted to change over to dual nozzles and get rid of methanol flowing through my throttle body.
Well, I drilled and tapped one.
This is with the 175 ml nozzle right after the inter cooler.
The outside temp is 82 degrees, the intake air temp is 85. :)
(The A/C is on in this test!)
Ambient air is in the upper right, Intake Air Temp is in the bottom middle.

I did find I can easily quench the engine with this much methanol water mix, so I set the "full" setting to a higher MAF number on my Variable MAF controller, methanol still starts at a low MAF setting, but does not get "full strength" spray till a higher MAF setting.

My method of drilling was with help from several RX8 board members:
I removed the Pettit upper intake manifold.
I cut a paper plate to make a dam to contain the shavings from the drilling and tapping.
I used duct tape to seal the piece of paper plate to the inside of the inter cooler output.
Do not take any chance with shavings getting into the engine.

I also added the finished picture. (I will do the intake side to add the second nozzle another day)

This is with the 175 ml nozzle right after the inter cooler...
I did find I can easily quench the engine with this much methanol water mix,

??? 175cc "quenches" the engine?
I've put the controller in "test" mode (ramps up to full-on and stays there) with the 315cc nozzle and the motor doesn't even react.
I've emptied 1/4 of my 1/2 gallon bottle like that and there was no change in idle at all.
Maybe its the low humidity here...

??? 175cc "quenches" the engine?
I've put the controller in "test" mode (ramps up to full-on and stays there) with the 315cc nozzle and the motor doesn't even react.
I've emptied 1/4 of my 1/2 gallon bottle like that and there was no change in idle at all.
Maybe its the low humidity here...


It's sort of strange with the "full on" set low on the variable MAF triggered controller:
The initial take off is fine, full throttle after spin up is fine, but at middle MAF flow I was feeling some quench.

I wound up setting the MAF controller to allow the initial flow starting at 1.0 and full flow coming in at 4.8.

I have no leaks, I no longer have Boost-Juice dripping from the air filter like my old MAF housing injection point.
Next up, I want to try it with no water; just straight methanol with 15% nitromethane!

damn...soon you lot will be using full high explosives by the sound of it!

Be careful!

I wound up setting the MAF controller to allow the initial flow starting at 1.0 and full flow coming in at 4.8.

Well, there is your problem. What is the point of using a progressive controller if you are going to set it up like that?
Set the "on" point to about 3 PSI and the "off" to just slightly above your maximum boost.
Size your nozzle accordingly.

That said, you should be able to turn the 650cc nozzle on at idle without any "quench" or whatever.
What you are probably feeling is lean misfire.

Well, there is your problem. What is the point of using a progressive controller if you are going to set it up like that?
Set the "on" point to about 3 PSI and the "off" to just slightly above your maximum boost.
Size your nozzle accordingly.

That said, you should be able to turn the 650cc nozzle on at idle without any "quench" or whatever.
What you are probably feeling is lean misfire.

Um, A MAF trigger does not "do" PSI.
My lowering the flow was due to my car being daily driven, and there was too much methanol at a low speed part throttle.
:)

damn...soon you lot will be using full high explosives by the sound of it!

Be careful!

Isn't nitromethane an "alternate fuel"? :uhh:
We are doing our part by going "green" :)
(The Methanol nitromethane mix is green colored)

That said, you should be able to turn the 650cc nozzle on at idle without any "quench" or whatever.
What you are probably feeling is lean misfire.

I think the humidity down here has a lot to do with it, because we don't need at much flow to get the charge temps down. Juan flowed about 300cc/min and lost about 25 hp, he backed away and flowed 160ccs/min, got the hp back that he lost, and kept his charge temps to just above ambient. If you need 650cc/min of flow, it has to be that dry desert air, or that turbo is heating up the charge more than the supercharger. My guess is the dry air. As I type this we're at 85% humidity over here.

Isn't nitromethane an "alternate fuel"? :uhh:
We are doing our part by going "green" :)
(The Methanol nitromethane mix is green colored)

Make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy, and get yourself a flame suit. We don't want you to be known as Rote8 because you rotisseried yourself. :lol2:

85%.................damn, I knew it was dry out today! :lol:

85% humidity.................OMG how can you breath? Presently our humidity is 8% and dropping with a temp of 106 (8:22am). Expect only 115 today with about a 6% humidity rate. I wonder what it feels like to live in water? - You guys have got to have webbed fingers, feet and gills.

Yep, we do........we live in a swamp!
Actually.........85% is about norm, or even low for 9 months out of the year.
Rarely does it break 100 degrees, but it stays at 90-93 with 85% or better humidity for at LEAST 6 months and probably more like 8 months. At least I live one block from the beach on the East Coast of Florida so I get a breeze almost all the time. Bastage doesn't get the same breeze living across on the mainland only 5 miles away.

85% humidity.................OMG how can you breath? Presently our humidity is 8% and dropping with a temp of 106 (8:22am). Expect only 115 today with about a 6% humidity rate. I wonder what it feels like to live in water? - You guys have got to have webbed fingers, feet and gills.

The humidity here can get pretty bad... it can feel like a sauna. Especially when the sun is out during a shower.

One of the reasons I'd like to move up north a bit within the next few years.

Yep, we do........we live in a swamp!
Actually.........85% is about norm, or even low for 9 months out of the year.
Rarely does it break 100 degrees, but it stays at 90-93 with 85% or better humidity for at LEAST 6 months and probably more like 8 months. At least I live one block from the beach on the East Coast of Florida so I get a breeze almost all the time. Bastage doesn't get the same breeze living across on the mainland only 5 miles away.

Yeah, we're almost exactly 5 miles away from the Atlantic, and it's definitely not as breezey, but it's still way better than it was in Orlando though.

We love the humidity it keeps our significant others Wet or pre lubed how ever you want to put it lolololoololololololol

Um, A MAF trigger does not "do" PSI.

OK then. Set your "on" point to 115g/sec and your max to 350g/sec.

Presently our humidity is 8% and dropping with a temp of 106 (8:22am). Expect only 115 today with about a 6% humidity rate.

8% humidity?!?! OMG how can you breathe?
Its 4% here today.
We had a 2% day a few weeks ago.
It was 35% last night after the rain. I had to put on my SCUBA gear.

I'll remember to bring wet towels when we meet:bubbrubb:. That way you'll feel at home:) :lol2:

Bco007 / Bryan
Florida
MT
Pettit Racing

Bco007 / Bryan
Florida
MT
Pettit Racing

That looks brand new - 1st post also- Welcome to the group. You will find us helpful, argumentative, full of BS and above all fellow Pettit s/c owners. Need questions answered? - just post them and stand back for the onslaught of good information :) and arguments :rant: .



WELCOME BRIAN

Bco007 / Bryan
Florida
MT
Pettit Racing

Welcome to the club man, where in Florida are you?

Yeah, we're almost exactly 5 miles away from the Atlantic, and it's definitely not as breezey, but it's still way better than it was in Orlando though.

easy there jerky! ;)

beers :beer:

He's right though.....and you know it! :)

Brian are you going to go to the homestead speed way saturday?

Thank you every 1 lol im located in aventura fl near the mall. Umm im considering going i really want to see what my car can do just call me if ur gonna go maybe well ride out together.

OK then. Set your "on" point to 115g/sec and your max to 350g/sec.



8% humidity?!?! OMG how can you breathe?
Its 4% here today.
We had a 2% day a few weeks ago.
It was 35% last night after the rain. I had to put on my SCUBA gear.

Bring your rain gear - they are calling for monsoons Saturday late afternoon and Sunday. Of course the storms are coming up from AZ. Seems to me it's a little early for the monsoons.

He's right though.....and you know it! :)

kinda, but when i move to the coast it will be naples! :)

Bring your rain gear - they are calling for monsoons Saturday late afternoon and Sunday. Of course the storms are coming up from AZ. Seems to me it's a little early for the monsoons.

and 20 min after the shower, you going to have crazy 18% humidity!!!:)

beers :beer:

kinda, but when i move to the coast it will be naples! :)



Naples is awesome! We go there every couple of years for our anniversary (took the family there like 6 weeks ago). Here's a shot from our hotel balcony in Bonita Springs:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2543052297_ac34435848_b.jpg

The beaches are definitely nicer on the west coast (if you ignore all the senior folk visiting from overseas wearing speedos).

hey swoope, are we havin a house warming party?

i wanna come too

Naples is awesome! We go there every couple of years for our anniversary (took the family there like 6 weeks ago). Here's a shot from our hotel balcony in Bonita Springs:
The beaches are definitely nicer on the west coast (if you ignore all the old ladies and old men in speedos).

Watch those off hand remarks about old people :rant: I'll have the AARP knocking on your door with a few more of those comments :Eyecrazy: In this day you must be politically correct, try "Age Challenged". You to will join the ranks, it's just a matter of time:lol2:

Watch those off hand remarks about old people :rant: I'll have the AARP knocking on your door with a few more of those comments :Eyecrazy: In this day you must be politically correct, try "Age Challenged". You to will join the ranks, it's just a matter of time:lol2:

:rollingla

well put Phil!!!

i didnt wanna say anything, as it might reveal my true age....:rofl:

Watch those off hand remarks about old people :rant: I'll have the AARP knocking on your door with a few more of those comments :Eyecrazy: In this day you must be politically correct, try "Age Challenged". You to will join the ranks, it's just a matter of time:lol2:

:lol:

Ok, I'll edit :)

Fixed!

Watch those off hand remarks about old people :rant: I'll have the AARP knocking on your door with a few more of those comments :Eyecrazy: In this day you must be politically correct, try "Age Challenged". You to will join the ranks, it's just a matter of time:lol2:

Bastage don't be scared. By the time the AARP reps climb the stairs half would have had strokes and the other half won't remember what they were suppossed to be doing. Pretend it's Halloween and send them on their way.:) :Eyecrazy: :lol: :) :lol: :Eyecrazy:

Bastage don't be scared. By the time the AARP reps climb the stairs half would have had strokes and the other half won't remember what they were suppossed to be doing. Pretend it's Halloween and send them on their way.:) :Eyecrazy: :lol: :) :lol: :Eyecrazy:

I was thinking more along the lines of "It's ok, my front door is not wheelchair accessible," but I didn't want to be too much of an ass :lol2:

Anyway, back on topic. I'm going to be in Miami on Saturday so I may be giving you a call.

kinda,
and 20 min after the shower, you going to have crazy 18% humidity!!!:)
beers :beer:
Almost unbearable - 18% is pure water isn't it???:)
:rollingla

well put Phil!!!

i didn't wanna say anything, as it might reveal my true age....:rofl:

You, young lady, are just a teenager in the scheme of things

Bastage don't be scared. By the time the AARP reps climb the stairs half would have had strokes and the other half won't remember what they were supposed to be doing. Pretend it's Halloween and send them on their way.:) :Eyecrazy: :lol: :) :lol: :Eyecrazy:

Got a point there :) All will be out of breath and calling the building department because of the lack of handicap parking and access.

I was thinking more along the lines of "It's ok, my front door is not wheelchair accessible," but I didn't want to be too much of an ass :lol2:
Your local building department will be notified of that oversight - all entrances are now supposed to be wheelchair accessible and the first parking spot must be handicapped. only!!!:rant: Now, about not wanting to be too much of an ass............:lol: :lol2: :)

Give me a call this is my schedule for Saturday try and swing by. I'll be doing the driving school.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/MUNCHE187/RX8/071208drivingclassschedule.jpg

This is how the track will be configured.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/MUNCHE187/RX8/071208trackconfig.jpg

dont set the maf controller to come on at 1volt man---look at the injection percentage curve--it will almost be straight up and you will be at 100% before you really need it.
My initial is at approx 2.5--2.75 (hard to see that small difference with max at about 4.5--4.75. Smooth your injection curve out. I know this reasoning seems back assward but that is how Snow has set the controller to work per their instructions.
I bet you are using a lot of volumne?
I probably will go back to the dual nozzle set up---cant argue with the testing--i just like to play.
olddragger

all old folks carry sniper rifles:)
OD

dont set the maf controller to come on at 1volt man---look at the injection percentage curve--it will almost be straight up and you will be at 100% before you really need it.
My initial is at approx 2.5--2.75 (hard to see that small difference with max at about 4.5--4.75.

I'd say 2.75 is way too low as well. That's only 50 g/sec of air or so.
My system is MAP based, but I have it start spraying at the equivalent of about 3.3 volts on the MAF, which is about 115 g/sec.

You aren't in boost below 100 g/sec.

dont ~
I bet you are using a lot of volumne?
~.
olddragger


Yeah, but I am getting 80 degree IAT when it's 95 degrees out side!
:)

My initial is at approx 2.5--2.75 (hard to see that small difference with max at about 4.5--4.75.

That’s also my setup. Also, the reason I spray before the blower is to not only to bring the blower temps down but also for not to shock the intake temps after spraying. If you only spray after the blower the temps with skyrocket after you are off boost. For example, let’s say your ambient temp is 90 degrees your AIT is 120 degrees after the blower and you are only spraying after the blower. Then you run your car on boost while spraying. Your AIT will go down while your blower and pressurized air temps go up. As soon as you get off boost your AIT will definitely will go up to 130+ degrees. However, if you spray before and after your AIT will remain constant for a few seconds after boost and will gradually will go up. If you only spray before the blower it will require more 50/50 water/methanol to achieve the same result. In my case I had to spray with a 225 ml nozzle pre blower in order to achieve the results that I getting with my dual nozzle setup of 100 ml before the blower and 60 ml after the blower. Basically 65 ml less of 50/50 water/meth and same results. In any case, anything above 225 ml (given the ambient temps/humidity conditions here in Florida) will decrease your whp instead of the other way around. :eyetwitch

Just to clarify. Is 160-170 ml of spray recommended for our setup??

Just to clarify. Is 160-170 ml of spray recommended for our setup??

Snow recommends 175ml for up to 350 rwhp. (see chart on previous page which is copied directly from Snow's installation instructions)

Juan recommends one 100ml nozzle before the blower, and one 60ml nozzle after the intercooler, for a total of 160ml/min. This was where he found the best air temps and dyno results.

Naples is awesome! We go there every couple of years for our anniversary (took the family there like 6 weeks ago). Here's a shot from our hotel balcony in Bonita Springs:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/2543052297_ac34435848_b.jpg

The beaches are definitely nicer on the west coast (if you ignore all the senior folk visiting from overseas wearing speedos).

Hmm, nice. I could get into some trouble running those mangroves on my ski :uhh: . Might have to settup a meet there. As for beating on the older crowd thats just rudd, doing thatl piss them off, I mean there older and wiser, I bet some of them can even tell you what a Trex looks like. :) just kiddin.

Just have to give Moon A huge Thanks he help me setup a way for me to run my car cooler at the track tomorrow. If it works I will post data logs and pics of the setup. I did some test runs and it is working great so far.

Quick thread hijack.........here's an update Phil. http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=150629 I freakin re-broke my heel! :banghead:

Dave

ooouch

Quick thread hijack.........here's an update Phil. http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=150629 I freakin re-broke my heel! :banghead:

Dave

oh shyte Dave....what are we gonna do with you!!!

no more MT for awhile????

GL, get well soon!!

This is how the track will be configured.


Hey, how the event go? SHAAAARE with us. I know it was raining down there a lot of the morning (and part of the day). Hope you didn't have any traction issues.

Hi every 1 i have a question do any of you know when the racing beat headers will come out. Also, Phil add me to the map lolllll. And for every1 with pettit 8s in miami or south Florida we should all have a meet in the near future!

Hi every 1 i have a question do any of you know when the racing beat headers will come out. Also, Phil add me to the map lolllll. And for every1 with pettit 8s in miami or south Florida we should all have a meet in the near future!


I am waiting on the Racing Beat header as well....
The Ebay header is looking better everyday I am forced to wait. :banghead:

haha i agree with you 100% buts its gonna be worth the wait i want a full RB SYSTEM!! gonna be sick!

haha i agree with you 100% buts its gonna be worth the wait i want a full RB SYSTEM!! gonna be sick!

I bet it's a PITA to install the header....

Juan, where is the DIY header install!!

i just install header today---really not that bad--have to pull the passenger side motor mount--rest is start forward. I wrapped mine also and sprayed it too. I also wrapped the ms midpipe(i called Scott and he said OK) as a resonator is really close to the trans and I am concerned about the heat.
I also installed the clutch brace. Finished it all--now the damn thing will not start. Will not crank. The clutch switch is ok--i even bypassed it to try to see if that would help. The engine fuse is ok, the room fuse is ok, the battery is ok, not throwing any codes!!!!!! I really hate electrical probs.
Seems like everytime I do something to this car something weird happens:rant:
So what did i do--i quit:banghead: damn thing is setting in the backyard and will stay there for a little while.:icon_no2:
Any suggestions?
olddragger

Juan, where is the DIY header install!!

Sorry but I did not take pictures of the removal or install. However it is easy and I can post the Mazda RX8 exhaust removal/installation instructions next week when I get back to my house.

Make sure you buy the three gaskets required to replace the old ones. You will need a new manifold exhaust gasket, exhaust manifold end gasket (round gasket between the tail end of the exhaust manifold and the mid-pipe/catalytic converter) and the little air pipe to exhaust manifold gasket. I reused the air pipe to exhaust manifold gasket. Also, Mazda recommends replacing the old (6) exhaust manifold nuts for new ones. I reused mine.

Steps:

1. Raise your car on 4 jack stands. (I only raised the front)
2. Make sure everything is cool or be prepared to get burn tattoos.
3. Remove the two cross member (transmission tunnel cross members).
4. Remove both oxygen sensors (exhaust manifold and mid-pipe/catalytic converter).
5. Apply plenty of WD-40 to the two rear and three front exhaust manifold and mid-pipe/catalytic converter bolts and remove.
6. Remove mid-pipe/catalytic converter.
7. Remove front passenger wheel.
8. Apply plenty of WD-40 to the 6 exhaust manifold nuts.
9. Place a 2x4 under the oil pan and use a jack to support the engine.
10. Remove passenger side engine mount and bracket.
11. Remove exhaust manifold (tail end) to transmission support bracket.
12. Remove air tube 2 nuts.
13. Loosen upper air tube support (it is a bolt located at the top of the air pipe and allows easy movement of the air pipe while removing and installing the header).
14. Remove the 6 exhaust manifold nuts. Some of the nuts might come out along with the stud. If this happens remove the nut from the stud an reinsert the stud back into the end plate with loctite.
15. Remove exhaust manifold.
16. Install header in reverse order.

You will need bolts/nuts torque specs and I post them later too.

I had to modify the OEM exhaust manifold (tail end) to transmission support bracket in order to install my ExoticSpeed header. No big deal and done with no power tools.

If you get a Racing Beat header I’m sure it will include a complete set of instructions and any additional hardware. They are pretty good at covering all minor details. Sorry but I could not wait for the RB header release. I will not recommend an OBX header since the tail end of the header does not collect all exhaust port pipes to the oxygen sensor and the metal is too thin. The ExoticSpeed header material is great, pipes are the same length, welding superior and it weights 14.6 pounds (about the same weight as the OEM exhaust manifold). :eyetwitch

Any suggestions?

Sorry no ideas but a little overnight break might help. Watch out for those pesky squirrels. :eyetwitch

should have waited for the racing beat header... lol jk

Any suggestions?
olddragger

Beer?

best suggestion i have heard all damn day:)
OD

I also installed the clutch brace. Finished it all--now the damn thing will not start. Will not crank. The clutch switch is ok--i even bypassed it to try to see if that would help.

double check this - it's the only thing that makes sense . Also - check the rest of the fuses .....

Finished it all--now the damn thing will not start. Will not crank.

I take it the starter does not spin the engine at all, no noises; or am I wrong?

Battery dead?
Battery cables tight?
Battery terminals corroded?
Can you turn the engine over with a wrench on the front nut?
Starter wires connected? (or tight?)

OD. It is possible for a battery to be bad while testing good. Try taking a battery from another vehicle and using it to start the car.

Hi every 1 i have a question do any of you know when the racing beat headers will come out. Also, Phil add me to the map lolllll. And for every1 with pettit 8s in miami or south Florida we should all have a meet in the near future!

I am unable to correct the map as I lack the computer expertise to do so. Vice Grip was nice enough to install it but has since disappeared. If there is anyone that knows how to make the adjustment to it, please PM me with instructions (keep it simple cuz I am).

I would be happy to update the written list if you will PM me the following information:

1. Owners Name(s):
2. State:
3. AT/MT
4. Installed By:

I added Bco007 and Rote8 to the list. I will play with the map and see if I can't figure it out.

thats what i plan to do today guys and yall are right--test good but still will not work.
Also correct---will not start at all--no sound from starter.
another day---
OD

have you tried using a different battery yet.

thats what i plan to do today guys and yall are right--test good but still will not work.
Also correct---will not start at all--no sound from starter.
another day---
OD

check the clutch position switch. :)

beers :beer:

FOUND IT!!!
battery ok--load tested it, clutch switch ok per multimeter BUT the clutch switch connector was NOT. Guess that crowbar i used to help get it off must have pulled a wire a little too much----kidding. There was a wire loose but i didnt use a crowbar.
Fixed and running:)
The exhaust wrap smoked a lot:) more than I thought it would. I do have a leaky header gasket and I will have to call Scott to get his latest(i have his midpipe remember).
Underhood temps are down and undercar temps are really down-smile smile smile.
I also made some o2 sensor cooling wings and installed.
So far so good. Power increase----hmmmmm:)

Question---how long are the motor mount bolts-the one that screws into the motor mount itself(the one on the frame)? I may have put too short of a bolt in it.
Juan---what did you do about the header support bracket?
olddragger

oh yea if you dont have the clutch brace---believe it or not--you really can tell a difference. It feels so solid now---rock solid.
OD

Juan---what did you do about the header support bracket?

Way to go OD. :)

Assuming you got the ExoticSpeed header. Take the OEM bracket and cut the two outside edges of the bracket towards the header and bend slightly the bracket. Drill (I believe) two holes, attach first the transmission end and then the bracket end. Sorry but I will not be able to post pictures until Saturday. However, make sure you attach a bracket or the heat created by the heat wrap will eventually bend the header/mid-pipe section and your exhaust will start sagging. :eyetwitch

ok will do! Thanks for that info--didnt realize the header would eventually bend.
by the way a heat solution is coming---mumb is the word right now---but trust me:)
OD

ok will do! Thanks for that info--didnt realize the header would eventually bend.
by the way a heat solution is coming---mumb is the word right now---but trust me:)
OD

he he,

your welcome..

beers :beer:

Hey Phil
we have another SC owner out there...
screen name zenrx8

:D:

Hey Phil
we have another SC owner out there...
screen name zenrx8

:D:

I need his other info and I will add him to the list. If you can get it to me I would appreciate it.
1. Owners Name(s): Screen/actual first
2. State:
3. AT/MT
4. Installed By:

I think we are missing several SC owners.

Hey OD, Im a soon to be 'owner'(still a couple months away) and I recently finished reading the entire Petit inventory of threads. I have many ?s for you since you rarely post pics of your DIYs... I will be PMing you and Juan over the next couple of months about some things... anyway thought you might be interested in this since your on a never ending quest to further cool your engine... may help may not...

I need his other info and I will add him to the list. If you can get it to me I would appreciate it.
1. Owners Name(s): Screen/actual first
2. State:
3. AT/MT
4. Installed By:

I think we are missing several SC owners.

i will PM him Phil...thx

Hey OD, Im a soon to be 'owner'(still a couple months away) and I recently finished reading the entire Petit inventory of threads. I have many ?s for you since you rarely post pics of your DIYs... I will be PMing you and Juan over the next couple of months about some things... anyway thought you might be interested in this since your on a never ending quest to further cool your engine... may help may not...

you just couldnt help yourself...could you?? :rollingla

;)

^^^ Pat you so funny:evil_laug ,,, yeah I figured Id start getting involved with this thread,,, most every other thread seems boring compared to the action in here:naughty:

Welcome to a future member:)
Anything I can do to help out just holler. Just returning the brotherhood. If it have not been for the others when I first got this kit I would have never gotten out of the backyard.
OD

thanks OD,,, After reading the threads I feel that My questions and concerns will be met with open critcism(even Jeff, has good points, aside form his 'my digital penis is bigger than yours' days) My first question deals with the Mazsport Ignition- I currently own one(stil in the box) and was wondering if you had to custom fab a new mounting bracket or did you find a suitable location that allows the plug wires to reach comfortably???

thanks OD,,, After reading the threads I feel that My questions and concerns will be met with open critcism(even Jeff, has good points, aside form his 'my digital penis is bigger than yours' days) My first question deals with the Mazsport Ignition- I currently own one(stil in the box) and was wondering if you had to custom fab a new mounting bracket or did you find a suitable location that allows the plug wires to reach comfortably???

Greg
there is a relocation of the coils with the pettit kit...including a bracket
you will prolly have to get new wires...dont think the ones in the mazport kit will be long enough...

check with those in the know!!

thanks Pat Ill have to take a really good look at yor setup this weekend before I ask anymore obvious questions,,, c ya then...

Just call Scott and he will make you a set of wires--i think you need 24 and 26 inches--not sure. Measure to be sure. . Get a set of the rx7 plugs and spacers also he has while you are at it.--run a little colder plug with this kit.
OD

Just call Scott and he will make you a set of wires--i think you need 24 and 26 inches--not sure. Measure to be sure. . Get a set of the rx7 plugs and spacers also he has while you are at it.--run a little colder plug with this kit.
OD

Scott is very good at helping out on plug wire length.
Also, make sure you have a way to adjust the dwell, either run the Interceptor-X or (I have been told) the Cobb Access port.
I think the Int-X may be the easiest to tune yourself.

I have the stock ECU flash.....:squint:

thanks Rote,,,
when you say the stock ECU flash is that the latest one for the StgII or another flash from your X

thanks Rote,,,
when you say the stock ECU flash is that the latest one for the StgII or another flash from your X


I do not have the Int-X.
From what I have read, it is easier to create your own settings for the Int-X.
My Stage 2 flash was done Feb 19, 2008.

hey Greg
check with cam or moon about that..
im not sure if the x is the way to go....i was actually glad i got rid of mine....

i am running with OEM coils and the first flash...eventually i will get the upgraded
flash...im just lazy... :lol:

I think I will start with the latest Petit Flash and then once I ve got everything running smoothly(shouldnt be to long) I think then I will add the RB Header and Mazsport Ign. and then get it tuned @ Peter Farrell Supercars http://www.pfsupercars.com/ they are a well known reputable RX7 tuner and thier in MD... Have any of you guys(Petit developers) heard or dealt with them

1. Owners Name(s): ZenRx8 (Wes)
2. State: Virginia
3. AT/MT: MT
4. Installed By: Moon@Pettit

I think I will start with the latest Petit Flash and then once I ve got everything running smoothly(shouldnt be to long) I think then I will add the RB Header and Mazsport Ign. and then get it tuned @ Peter Farrell Supercars http://www.pfsupercars.com/ they are a well known reputable RX7 tuner and thier in MD... Have any of you guys(Petit developers) heard or dealt with them

Greg....you will have to get a VIN certificate and an EFI dude to tune with the pettit flash...everything can be done electronically...

well according to the Petit Webpage the EFIDude comes with the Stg II kit...

well according to the Petit Webpage the EFIDude comes with the Stg II kit...

well..aint that dandy!!! i had to buy mine!!!

w00t!!!

well..aint that dandy!!! i had to buy mine!!!

w00t!!!

^^^ Me too.
(With VIN token)

im not sure if the x is the way to go....i was actually glad i got rid of mine..

Greg....you will have to get a VIN certificate and an EFI dude to tune with the pettit flash...everything can be done electronically...

The blind leading the deaf again.

and then get it tuned @ Peter Farrell Supercars http://www.pfsupercars.com/ they are a well known reputable RX7 tuner and thier in MD...

Ray is a good guy. The move From Manassas (and getting away from PF) was a good deal for the RX-7 and Lexus communities.
Can't do jack for your RX-8. Sorry.

i was wondering when you were gonna chime in.... :rollingla

perhaps you just dont understand what we're talking about :naughty:

granted....i do wear glasses, but when i have them on, i see fairly well (i can spot assholes a mile away)

granted....i do wear glasses, but when i have them on, i see fairly well (i can spot assholes a mile away)

Or in this case, ~2300 miles away :lol:

Nitro-Booster has arrived.....
And since my car is running 10.3 under load. :)

The people at Snow can be idiots, sometimes. I JUST called them Friday to see what was up with an order I have pending...........

perhaps you just dont understand what we're talking about :naughty:

I think its fairly obvious that you don't know what you are talking about, or you wouldn't have found yourself in this predicament.

granted....i do wear glasses, but when i have them on, i see fairly well (i can spot assholes a mile away)

Then you should have put them on before you spent good money after bad.

The blind leading the deaf again.



Ray is a good guy. The move From Manassas (and getting away from PF) was a good deal for the RX-7 and Lexus communities.
Can't do jack for your RX-8. Sorry.

I think thats only because they havent tuned one yet... I know the older 13B are quit different than the new Rene's but I woud rather take my car to a place that at least has some experience with Rotaries rather than some random tuner, whom would sit and stare at my engine wondering what it is....

Also do you know of any reputable 8 tuners in my area???

I think its fairly obvious that you don't know what you are talking about, blah blah I'm smarter than everyone blah blah

Regardless of how many times your parents called you stupid or smacked you on the back of the head for doing or saying stupid things, I think we can all assure you that you're not stupid. Please stop elevating your self-image/esteem by putting other people down. Somebody give this guy a hug.

I'm not a "psychiatrist," but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. :eyetwitch

Ray is much more reputable than Pete was, but they are still an "old school" rotary shop in most ways.
If you ever want to get an interesting perspective on PFS past dealings, read THIS (http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=341226)thread.
Fact is, they all are old-school shops for the most part. There are very few places that have come up to speed with regards to engine management tuning on the RX-8.
That is why you see so many places trying old school techniques and management systems with mediocre results at best.

Your two best bets are KD Rotary near Reading and JPR in Atlantic City.
Really, neither of those places are tuning shops, but they are good rotary mechanics and they can probably point you in the right direction.

If you are trying to tune using the EFI Dudes tool set, you are going to be on your own.

thanks for the input, I do realize that they stay in thier comfort zone, my freind had a moderatly tuned FD putting down 450WHP, and he voiced the same arguments I was just hoping for a somewhat local Rene tuner... Ill look into both of these shops,,,

Your two best bets are KD Rotary near Reading and JPR in Atlantic City.
Really, neither of those places are tuning shops, but they are good rotary mechanics and they can probably point you in the right direction.

Dave at KDR is great.

thanks for the input, I do realize that they stay in thier comfort zone,

I know the older 13B are quit different than the new Rene's

The problem isn't really that the motors are different.
Rather, its that the older engine management options are incompatible.
The Int-X (an RX-8 specific port of the Microtech) is the only "crossover" EMS that past rotary tuners would have any familiarity with.
The other fantastically powerful stand-alone systems (AEM, Haltech, Motec, etc.) don't support the RX-8 without significant modification and all but one of the flash solutions are vaporware at best.
Even if they were fully supported, there aren't more than 1/2 dozen people in the world that can tune them.
Right now, there is only one RX-8 specific engine management that works 100% of the time, and there are precious few ways to get it tuned correctly.
The other issues (that are Pettit-specific and not insignificant) are already well documented here.

Well I have read this whole thread and the issue non issues debat seems to stem from wether your a fanboy or wether your a skeptic,,, that said the things that OD and Juan are doing to improve the system is another topic eniterly

Well I have read this whole thread and the issue non issues debat seems to stem from wether your a fanboy or wether your a skeptic,,, that said the things that OD and Juan are doing to improve the system is another topic eniterly
There are several owners doing ongoing improvements and at least one non owner also working on improvements.

I assume you mean Charles R. Hill - BHR

I assume you mean Charles R. Hill - BHR
Yes I do.

Yeah one of the most important things I plan on having while I install is the BHR Rad and the Mazmart water pump...
-Phils obviously you have the AP do you have any criticism with it compared to the Int X
I ask because I have a Cobb distributer and tuner that is near me Agile Auto Performance(Subie, Evo tuner) and they can get me a really good deal on one..

Yeah one of the most important things I plan on having while I install is the BHR Rad and the Mazmart water pump...
-Phils obviously you have the AP do you have any criticism with it compared to the Int X
I ask because I have a Cobb distributer and tuner that is near me Agile Auto Performance(Subie, Evo tuner) and they can get me a really good deal on one..
I am not familiar with the tuners but I sure am with the Cobb AP. There is no comparison with the Interceptor X as they are two different types of units. My 8 went from having trouble with idles and a few other items to the smooth running car that I purchased. If it was not for the s/c whine, you would never know that FI was involved. I attribute the change to the AP and only wish it had been available earlier.

I ask because I have a Cobb distributer and tuner that is near me Agile Auto Performance(Subie, Evo tuner) and they can get me a really good deal on one..

Have they tuned one for FI on an RX-8?

Yes, there have been 8s there rarely for tunes mainly for suspension tuning, there was one there for a turbo upgrade I dont know if he is a member here or not, Its a TIGray with the RMagic hood, MS B-pillars, MS wing,Greddy Turbo setup he was having a larger turbo swapped in ,,, I thought too large of a turbo woul dcause problems without a correct tune(as would any FI) but I dont know what happened to it??? It was sitting there for about a week and a half and I never saw it again...SO I dont know if it was ever 'tuned' or not

Regardless if I choose the AP I would still purchase it through them... I have heard that yourself or Ray have a flash for the AP Petit setup though, unless I misread somewhere

At the moment, there are no other sources for FI calibrations on the AccessPORT.
That should change at some point I'd think.
But, so far, there haven't been any notable successes at any of the other Cobb retailers.

Its still a custom affair with the Pettit because of its MAF tube (or effective lack thereof).
Once someone fits an AEM CAI to the Pettit, you are going to see some smiles.

Once someone fits an AEM CAI to the Pettit, you are going to see some smiles.

That's really funny, because I had a nice conversation about doing just that last week :)

Unfortunately my FI plans are not for this year...

Once someone fits an AEM CAI to the Pettit, you are going to see some smiles.


Isn't the AEM CAI tube a smaller diameter than the Pettit MAF tube?
I was planning a CAI, but I wanted to create one from PVC for a trial fit, then make one from Aluminum.

The AEM is the proper diameter for the MAF (3.375" i.d.).
I don't know what the current Pettit diameter is. It changed a few times since the initial production run (when there wasn't a MAF tube at all).

wasnt the original kit ran by a standalone and didnt need the maf?
Doesnt the size of the maf tube and the tuning have a symbiotic relationship?
I am not having any probs at all with the flash. i have---good power-- 22-23 mpg at cruise, 16-17 around town. All systems work fine. I have a cel because i removed the cat and the secondary air pump. My mazsport igition upgrade works well also.
The AP is a good option but not the only one.
olddragger

wasnt the original kit ran by a standalone and didnt need the maf?

It was a MAP-based system, so the MAF was just left hanging from the brake master cylinder on a ZIP tie.

Doesnt the size of the maf tube and the tuning have a symbiotic relationship?

Yes. That is why it should be 3.375" i.d. and matching the overall specs that I have posted countless times here and elsewhere.

I have a cel because i removed the cat and the secondary air pump. My mazsport igition upgrade works well also.

AP deletes those.

The AP is a good option but not the only one.

Trepanning is also an option to brain surgery.

Hi sweety, how ya been. I see your still looking at kiddy porn, I coulda sworn that one gal in one of your pics was my buddys sister, and shes only 15 you dirty old man. :)

Hi sweety, how ya been. I see your still looking at kiddy porn, I coulda sworn that one gal in one of your pics was my buddys sister, and shes only 15 you dirty old man. :)

sounds like libel to me.

sounds like libel to me.

If I thought he had any fiscal value, I'd consider it.
Its just entertainment at this point.

Na, no need for meds. How about you, been taking yours????

After all this time, you still don't realize what's going on, do you?
Spectacular!

Hmm, got me. Seems that everyone on this thread who owns a blower is satisfied. You dont have one and your not.

39 more posts and your gona reach 10,000, way to go Jeff.

Hmm, got me. Seems that everyone on this thread who owns a blower is satisfied. You dont have one and your not.

That's it. Exactly.
Such brilliant deductive reasoning.
So, where is Zen? Doesn't he usually swoop in and, like on the cover of some cheap romance novel, "save" you from yourself right about now?

Na, your the only one for me sweety, no need to get jealous.

Well, that's comforting.
You keep building them, I'll keep fixing them. Eventually, it will all work out.

See, your my knight in Shining Armor. Your getting so good at fixing your own mistakes that I might just let you change my oil someday.

not to get off topic or anthing.... :rofl: my MAF housing is awesome...cuz i made it myself!!

could that be why im not building LTFTs?

:dunno: :dunno:

36 more posts, guess your not under your car, your going for the record, go Jeffy go.

not to get off topic or anthing.... :rofl: my MAF housing is awesome...cuz i made it myself!!

could that be why im not building LTFTs?

:dunno: :dunno:

Do tell more.

Do tell more.

She has a nice set of pics somewhere (possibly in this thread) of the tube she made before Pettit started shipping their version.

I might just let you change my oil someday.

Nah. I don't work on mopeds.

35, your not typing fast enough Jeff.

Anybody have a Sawsall handy?

35, your not typing fast enough Jeff.

Watch this trick.

Doesnt the MAF placement issue also have to do with how far away you can locate away from the largest heat source( in this case the blower and Lower Intake Mani)?

my MAF housing is built from the OEM air box...
cut off the tube from the box...use a coupler and there ya have it

everything fits nice....

and its definitely oem specs.

will definatley be checking that out this weekend..

Doesnt the MAF placement issue also have to do with how far away you can locate away from the largest heat source( in this case the blower and Lower Intake Mani)?

Nope.

Anybody have a Sawsall handy?

Or a 7/16 box wrench.

Nah, Cam doesn't let him near stuff with a plug anymore.

OOOOO, stopped the counter, gotta learn that one. I have to give it to you, this songs for you sweety
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/297646/wow_just_amazing_bike_trick/

34 left, your slackin

/\ how ironic

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/297646/wow_just_amazing_bike_trick/
I LOVE Cake. That was a brilliant album.
I think you haven't quite mastered irony yet. Might want to go consult with Zen on that one as well.

34 left, your slackin

Apparently can't count either.

/\ how ironic

I guess so. I take back the first comment.

I guess so. I take back the first comment.

was refering to the post that was deleted - a porno teaser add

Now that is ironic.
Or sad. I'm not sure which.

Now that is ironic.
Or sad. I'm not sure which.

It's going to be an interesting Sevenstock this year...:uhh:

It's going to be an interesting Sevenstock this year...:uhh:

Nah. I expect a repeat of last year, at least with respect to the other vendors.

Nah. I expect a repeat of last year, at least with respect to the other vendors.

I'll be sure to bring my saw since that was the popular tool of installs from what I recall...:lol: :lol:

That was a SawzAll, not just any saw.

http://ironbadger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/sawzall1.jpg

What other way is there to modify your ABS system?

That was a SawzAll, not just any saw.

http://ironbadger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/sawzall1.jpg

What other way is there to modify your ABS system?

I suppose you could cut the brake lines but you don't build a customer base by wrecking their cars or blowing them up....:Eyecrazy:

you don't build a customer base by wrecking their cars

Around here, that depends on what you mean by "wrecking".

Hi sweety, how ya been. I see your still looking at kiddy porn, I coulda sworn that one gal in one of your pics was my buddys sister, and shes only 15 you dirty old man. :)

Dude I thought I saw my ex's a few times in those pics...

Funny thing...all I thought was...

Hey at least he's got good taste...

haa haa

Deaf leading the blind indeed.

i am sure glad we all have each other.
OD

i am sure glad we all have each other.
OD

Indeed.

feelin' the love in here.

Phil: just read the news, that sucks! (no, I'm not blaming the blower)

Thought id throw you a completed MASTER piece. Its not for an 8 but its a nice piece I did for a buddy. Enjoy :ylsuper:

Nice, details? How low did the work take?

Sweet work man
recognize this?
olddragger

damn wrong one i mean this!!
Hey I posted a pic!!!
olddragger

yah... now we can see all your DIY improvements....:ylsuper:

damn wrong one i mean this!!
Hey I posted a pic!!!
olddragger

omg.

i got to run out an buy lotto tickets. od posted a photo!

great job! :lol:

beers :beer:

damn wrong one i mean this!!
Hey I posted a pic!!!
olddragger

WOO HOO! congrats OD... i am hoping that you have a lot of pics to throw up to show some of the things you've worked on...

now we just gotta get someone(one better than i) to teach you how to take a better picture :)

damn wrong one i mean this!!
Hey I posted a pic!!!
olddragger

O hell yeh, awsome job. I figure I had between 35 and 40 hours into it, its for a VW Carrado. Hold on, let me see if I can find one I made for the smaller blower, ill look after I eat this T bone infront of me.

Ok, keep in mind this was once a solid block of aluminum. It was the output for the smaller blower. Also rember it has about 20,000 miles on it.

feelin' the love in here.

Phil: just read the news, that sucks! (no, I'm not blaming the blower)

What .... :repost:

look at that- i go away for a few days and nothing changes-


oqw hell no!!!?? did OD just post 2 pics in a row? some one buy him a brew!!

OD, how much to do the outer for me like that, that looks like it took a while and it turned out awsome.

yo OD, can i send my intake down???

yowza!!!!

feelin' the love in here.

Phil: just read the news, that sucks! (no, I'm not blaming the blower)

That is why I did not post it here. The s/c had nothing to do with my engine problem. We (Me, Jeff, Eric and Ray) feel that the overheating was the problem. When the temps here get to 117 or higher it is next to impossible to keep a FId car from overheating.
What .... :repost:
I was having an ongoing problem with what I thought was just a little tuning and a sudden big problem with overheating. Had a few friends in to see what the problem was and we (actually they) found that each combustion track had lost 50psi. I started another thread about it and will keep up the thread as the engine is rebuilt.

damn wrong one i mean this!!
Hey I posted a pic!!!
olddragger
Now I'm the only old fart left that can't post a picture, damm:icon_no2:

I was having an ongoing problem with what I thought was just a little tuning and a sudden big problem with overheating.

Uh oh,
The tuning problem, that would not be long term fuel trims, would it?
No one can find why I am building such huge LTFTs.

I see a compression test in my future, or I will always wonder.

Can you make 300 RWHP with bad seals?

Update:

Uh, pulling the ROOM fuse needed to be followed by the pedal dance.
Working much better now.

damn wrong one i mean this!!
Hey I posted a pic!!!
olddragger

Holy Shit.............Denny posted not one pic, but two! :banghead:

I've now seen just about everything, so could someone please help me down from here?