Went on a business trip last week, and the car sat in the cold for 5 days. During this time, my girlfriend started it to move it...and of course only let it run for 30 seconds or so while doing so. I came back Friday, tried to start it.... it rumbled, sputtered, idled extremely rough....then died. Since then, I've not been able to even get the slightest bit of engine compression.

So it's now Sunday, I'm sitting here starting at my $50K investment scratching my head. It's Thanksgiving, so Mazda Assist told me not to bother towing it until tomorrow morning when the dealership is open.

I'm guessing a few of you have, and will have this happen, as apparently it is the earmark of the rotary engine. Don't get me wrong, I love the car....but this is something that would give me thoughts of handing this car back to Mazda (rather than silly horsepower items). If I didn't have alternate transport, or needed to catch a flight when this happened, I'd be in some serious hot water.

A word to all of you Canadians (and northern Americans) that are going to be cold starting your RX-8 in the coming weeks...be prepared for this, and follow the 5 minute start rule.

I've tried starting it for 3 days now, and no dice. Tried yanking the fuel pump fuse, waited a day, still no dice. If anyone else has suggestions outside of yanking out the spark plugs to dry them (I'm not touching this engine, it's too tempermental as it is), I'd like to hear it.

Thx.

UPDATE: Got it started

Here's how I did it, for when one of you gets in this situation:

First, I'll stress that I'm no mechanic, and have no idea if what I did here hurt my engine or starter motor, etc....but I don't really care, as it's all under warranty right? :)

- With the key out of the ignition, remove the 20A fuse for "Fuel Pump"....this is NOT the fuse for the Fuel Injection, it is a little yellow 20A fuse labelled "Fuel Pump"

- Crank the engine for 10-15 seconds. You'll see all sorts of yellow and black smoke belching out of the back of the car - don't be alarmed.

- Continue 10-15 seconds cranks with fuse removed until you don't see any smoke billowing out of the rear exhaust anymore (ie. all of the combustion chamber crud is now out)

- Shut the car OFF, remove the key from the ignition. Put the "Fuel Pump" fuse back in its place.

- Crank the engine again, in 5 second bursts. The engine will remarkably start to "catch" (as opposed to the usual non-compression wining it produced before). Keep cranking it in 5 second bursts until it a) starts or b) stops "catching" and returns to the flooded engine sounding cranking.

- Repeat the above until it is started

I did the above 3 times, and my car started. When it starts, it appears as though the day has become night, and the whole car, and your neighbor's house become engulfed in black smoke for a minute or two as the RX-8 burns off all of that oil rich fuel mix in the combustion chamber. It will eventually clear. Let the engine run for at least 5-10 minutes, and then take her out for a drive :) to warm 'er back up.

Again, I'll stress that I'm not a mechanic, but if you're in an emergency and need to get the engine started, and don't want to waste over a day getting your dealer to deal with this crap...the above should work for you.

Oh, and don't touch the gas pedal during ANY of this...ie. don't floor it when turning the engine over, etc., just let the above procedure do its work.

Hope this helps someone.

Actually, "flooring it" while cranking will yeild the same result.
To clear a flooded engine, Mazda included a de-choke program into the cranking scheme.
Just press the gas pedal to the floor and the ECU will pull ALL fuel delivery during cranking.

I'm not a mechanic either, but nontheless that was a very entertaining post. I got quite a lot a visual imagery from your writing, what a crack up. Congrats on getting the car started. Now if somebody that actually knows anything about rotary mechanics would step-in and let us know if this was a good idea or not! ;)

I understand why rotaries flood. I also know that its a special engine that may sometimes need special care.

But come on........my 30 Grand shouldn't buy me a car that leaves me stranded...or covers my street and house in black smoke when brand new. Guaranteed the way that is described in this thread is all they do when the dealer gets a flooded RX8.....crank the hell out of it with the fuel pump relay out.

Dont get me wrong...I love this car. I just think they should have squashed this problem by now. I follow the cold start procedure, But how about if someone not acustomed to rotaries moves my car out of the driveway and back in. Now I'm stranded the next day?......doesnt seem right.

Originally posted by Maniac
Actually, "flooring it" while cranking will yeild the same result.
To clear a flooded engine, Mazda included a de-choke program into the cranking scheme.
Just press the gas pedal to the floor and the ECU will pull ALL fuel delivery during cranking.

Not disputing what you're saying, but I tried that for 2 days...and it didn't help a lick. Flooring it produces a heavier "thumping" noise when cranking, but the engine never "caught" once.

Again, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but my real world experience yielded a different result.

Originally posted by Deep Blue
Not disputing what you're saying, but I tried that for 2 days...and it didn't help a lick. Flooring it produces a heavier "thumping" noise when cranking, but the engine never "caught" once.

Again, I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but my real world experience yielded a different result.
The engine will NOT catch while you are flooring the pedal. The thumping indicates good compression, as the fuel (or other liquid, depending on the situation) has been pumped out of the motor. Next you have to crank it normally (with no throttle input). THEN it will start. Or not, and you repeat the procedure. After 1-3 times, you should be golden.

Edit: FYI, this IS the procedure for de-flooding. There is no harm in it whatsoever, as long as you take care with your starter. A crank should be no more than 5-6 seconds, and let it rest for 10 secs. in between cranks. After 3 tries, let it rest a bit longer. Basically, don't overheat your starter.
Also, regarding the throttle input, there is 1 time where you must be ready to give it gas: after it starts. It will idle erratically for 5-10 seconds, and may sputter out. Be ready to keep it alive.

Originally posted by B-Nez
The engine will NOT catch while you are flooring the pedal. The thumping indicates good compression, as the fuel (or other liquid, depending on the situation) has been pumped out of the motor. Next you have to crank it normally (with no throttle input). THEN it will start. Or not, and you repeat the procedure. After 1-3 times, yo should be golden.

That's What I did....tried cranking it, flooring it while cranking it, cranking it after flooring it, etc. and no help.

Again, this was my personal experience with it, perhaps I had a radically bad case that needed the fuse pulled. Either way, I hope this post helps people who might get stuck as the weather gets cooler.

I'm not sure about accessibility on the 8, but on my 7, if you have someone to help you by cranking the engine while you pinch off the fuel supply hose with needle nose pliers you should be able to get it started. When the engine sounds like its about to catch release the hose and if possible on the 8 work the throttle by hand. I had to use this technique before I put in my fuel cut switch. usually works fairly quickly if the car hasn't been sitting for long

Peace

Originally posted by Deep Blue
....tried cranking it, flooring it while cranking it, cranking it after flooring it, etc. and no help.

And that was the problem.
For the de-choke procedure to work as Mazda designed it, you need to ONLY crank with the gas on the floor until the motor is clear.
In cold weather, this can take quite a while.
Whenever implementing any sort of fix for any problem of this sort, consistency is your only friend.

First rule of thumb with a rotary.

*If you start it, warm it up*

Second rule of thumb with a rotary.

*Don't give your girlfriend the keys*

:cool:

3rd rule of thumb -
Don't give ANYBODY keys to the RX-8.

Originally posted by rxeightr
3rd rule of thumb -
Don't give ANYBODY keys to the RX-8.

A valet comes to mind. Probably also a very bad idea.

This talk about the rotary flooding all the time makes me sick
I have owned rotary powered cars for over 20 years, flooding
is no more a problem with the rotary than a few other cars that
i have had/ have.
the ford SHO that i had would do the same thing, start it cold
move it a bit and shut it off before it warms up and it will be
flooded, 80 % of the time.
I have a jetta TDI and it is the same way, or possibly more of
a problem than the SHO was.
If you know what you are supposed to do when this kind of thing happens
then its not a problem, with the rotaries its simple the rx8 will stop fuel
flow when the foot feed is to the floor, putting your foot to the floor
at the first sign that it is flooded makes it that much easier to
get it started. cranking off and on for 5 secs at a time will only
flood it worse unless you have your foot to the floor and keep it
there. starting to crank and putting your foot to the floor will make things
worse put your foot to the floor before even turning the key.
I find that with any rotary that i have, or have had, from the
rx2, to the 3rd gen rx7, to the 3 rotor, if i start to crank i will keep cranking
until it starts, if it doesn't start in the first 5 to 6 seconds my foot automatically
goes to the floor with out stopping cranking, obviously if its really flooded
you don't want to keep cranking for to long, but getting into a habit if
starting the rotary like this will avoid the problem of a badly flooded engine.
my 2 cents
matt

IF you want to clear flooding like this, I suggest you might want to consider pulling the L (leading) plu out of each rotor.

Why?
Gasoline is a liquid.
Liquids don't compress.
Apex seal and side seals can be broken by cranking with liquid fuel in the chambers.

On top of that, if you DO get it started, as you mentioned, it will take quite a while to stop belching smoke ( as you mentioned).

That is because your spark plugs are fouled.

Unfortunately:
To get at the plugs you have to go UNDER the car.
I did not say this was an EASY fix.

But I believe it is the RIGHT fix, unless you want to risk damaging the engine..

I would just turn the car upside down and shake it. It's a lot easier than pulling everything apart, and the gas will probably come out through various ports and holes. You just have to call a couple friends over to help cause its kinda heavy.

Don't feel too bad. The unflooding procedure is a bit hit or miss. That's why RX-7 owners have for years used ATF injected into the engine (remove plug - inject a small amount - replace plug). It works much better.

It's also why those who have flooded it once, do everything in their power to avoid flooding it again. Make sure you warm it up. Use the new Mazda recomendation too - before shutting it off rev. it to 3-4k and turn off the ignition and let it coast down (injectors will be off so engine should expel any fuel inside).

I've never had the pleasure of flooding my 3rd gen. RX-7 and don't want to. I flooded my 2nd gen TII several times, but it had a fuel pump switch, and that makes it easy to start.

Okay, it's Christmas eve and I went to take the car out for a final Christmas eve spin before vacation time - and it was flooded. I can't blame it on my kids, my wife, or a wayward in-law. I did it. I moved the car out of the garage yesterday, turned her off, and moved it back in again - and then paid the price.

Going to start it this afternoon, she just died. So, I checked the manual and tried the 'floored for 10 seconds / no accelerator for 10 seconds' to no avail. :(

After coming in and reading this thread, I went back and kept trying with my foot floored. It took 10 minutes or so, but, she angrily came back to life. :p

Once she made her point, we went for a 45 minute drive so I would be sure the battery was recharged. Morale of the story - every now and then the design engineers get it right. More to the point - whenever I have a problem, it's RX8Club surfing I go...

Merry Christmas All!

>I went back and kept trying with my foot floored. It took 10 >minutes or so

You have your right foot floored the whole time while cranking it, even in between the cranking? I suppose you've done the cranking in a 5-6 sec burst, otherwise you're going to burn the starter!

So the keys to avoid the flood issue are

1. Always have the car fully warm up, if possible
2. If you plan to drive it on a very short trip, like in and out of your garage, make sure to rev it to 4k and hold it there for about 10 sec, and then turn off the engine right away.

Originally posted by pete325is
1. Always have the car fully warm up, if possible
2. If you plan to drive it on a very short trip, like in and out of your garage, make sure to rev it to 4k and hold it there for about 10 sec, and then turn off the engine right away.

Though it probably has be said 10 seconds or so in a couple of places, simply blipping it up over 4k RPM or so will do the trick.
The engine will actually start to load up if you hold it there for 10 seconds.

Just rev it and crank the key to off as the tach passes 4k.

Maniac,

Do you rev it up to 4k before turning it off even after a long trip and have the engine fully warm up?

Btw, have you ever flooded the rotary in your 8?

TIA,
Pete

No. The only time you are going to have flooding issues is if the car has not fully warmed up. Therefore, the only time you need to do the 4K rev shut off is if the engine has not warmed up.

Originally posted by Maniac
The engine will actually start to load up if you hold it there for 10 seconds.


???? Please elaborate Maniac.

newbie question for you guys:
would the flooding problem happen to an automatic transmission as well?

Yes, the flooding is a rotary engine "feature" with a rich tradition, and the trans makes no difference. Many old timers will say that true sports car has its quirks. Back before Fiat, Triumph, and MG got driven from the US market due to an abundance of undocumented "features" and "character" they could keep you busy all weekend with their distinctive personalities.

So, someday when I'm in the Shady Hills Old Farts Retirement Villa, I'll be the guy telling all the stories about being able to magically turn Day into Night with my 8 :)

BTW, I'll take flooding over 1960/1970s Lucas electronics any days. Hence the really old joke of:

Q: Why do the British drink warm beer?
A: Lucas builds their refrigerators.

Rare photo (http://indiabroad.rediff.com/news/sep/16fire3.jpg)of two flooded 8s simultaneously starting in the distance. Probably had the spark plugs replaced later in the day.

heh, old thread, but brought back memories for me....thx.

Deep,

I can confirm that this works. I actually did get my own flooded GT started using your procedure, but of course with the fuel pump fuse out, well, it starved to death. My 8 didn't like that and I had to try the procedure a multiple times until eventually the batt was getting a little sad. Had it flatbedded to Mazda and they started it using the de-choke procedure BUT they replaced the catalytic converter. Like mine, yours might be a little bunged up after having that much fuel through it and it might be advisable to have yours replaced too, for both fuel economy and anti-pollution purposes.

Pete

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

I'd like to add this: it's possible that you can flood it without it even starting.

This is what happened to me when I tried to start my 8 in what was (apparently) -38c. Yes, normally I wouldn't try this but I have started it in -33c at least 6 times in the last 2 winters. But the temp for my city was listed at -34 on the net (not -38 which apparently was the real temp).

The car cranked fairly well, but it would not start. After the first 8 second crank, I knew it wasn't going to start so I left it alone. ... and it never started again, even after 5 days and 0c degree temps. I tried the deflood procedures, pulling the fuel pump fuse, charging the battery and nothing worked. I had to get it towed to the dealer.

I haven't had any other flooding problems.

Im shocked by the people who could not start their car,mine has been sitting for 2months in fort mcmurray we had a solid week of -40 and when it finally hit -5 with a boost for about 15 min..i got it started...I think that is great...I have a celica also that did not start after 2 days unplugged in -40...Not to many vehicule start if you don't plug them in at those temps.

I didn't follow the tip about leaving the keys with someone else. My RX-8 was moved but never really driven. I tried to start it and the engine just makes a clicking noise. I'm sure it's flooded. What is the best way to unflood the engine?:banghead:

This old post helped me out BIG TIME. Thanks Deep Blue.


I was unable to get the car started for the past couple of days. It was in hibernation for the winter. I removed the fuel pump fuse, and cranked the car. I got very little black smoke. I than put the fuse back in , charged the battery, and it worked.

You got me out of a big jam. I owe you a drink.


-Pete

This old post helped me out BIG TIME.


I was unable to get the car started for the past couple of days. It was in hibernation for the winter. I removed the fuel pump fuse, and cranked the car. I got very little black smoke. I than put the fuse back in , charged the battery, and it worked.

You got me out of a big jam. I owe you a drink deep blue.


-Pete

wow..super back from the dead...my car starts everytime....even if i twas sitting all winter long....hm...

Hey I have a question.. I bought a car from an auction, and when I try to star the car the engine sounding cranking. I need some help

Holy old thread!

Rebelde, you'll have to share some information about the vehicle.
TSB here http://www.finishlineperformance.com/pdf/rx8/bulletin/01-015-08-1883f.pdf

How can I get the compression of the rotor?I have no clue about it.. My friend told me that I have to buy a new engine??? So I look online and find out the RX8 got this problem often..

Rotary engines require a specific type of compression tester.
You may just have to follow the de-flood procedure
But to get help people will want the history of the car. Model year, mileage, maintenance history etc.
Plus your location

Look through the technical section for the stickies
For series 1 (2004 - 2008) the forum is here http://www.rx8club.com/forumdisplay.php?f=21
the first three sub forums contain much of what you need to know. Yeah, it's a lot!
Good luck and happy reading

Ima do that, I hope it works.
Thanks dude

Hey I did the steps and it work..fuck yeah.

May This Thread Never Die ...

I haven't flooded yet, but I'm sure it'd gonna happen sooner or later. Definitely going to see some cold starts, and if I flood it cold, man I'll go into hysterics.

Thanks for this post Deep Blue, you've given hope to many people!

I was close to flooding the car last night (Nov,23,2010) its -29'c (-20’F) in here in Calgary
on the last turnover before the battery was about to died it fired up
Now I have a plug in parking stall for the block heater which should help
I also keep a set of jump leads in the trunk

Went on a business trip last week, and the car sat in the cold for 5 days. During this time, my girlfriend started it to move it...and of course only let it run for 30 seconds or so while doing so. I came back Friday, tried to start it.... it rumbled, sputtered, idled extremely rough....then died. Since then, I've not been able to even get the slightest bit of engine compression.

So it's now Sunday, I'm sitting here starting at my $50K investment scratching my head. It's Thanksgiving, so Mazda Assist told me not to bother towing it until tomorrow morning when the dealership is open.

I'm guessing a few of you have, and will have this happen, as apparently it is the earmark of the rotary engine. Don't get me wrong, I love the car....but this is something that would give me thoughts of handing this car back to Mazda (rather than silly horsepower items). If I didn't have alternate transport, or needed to catch a flight when this happened, I'd be in some serious hot water.

A word to all of you Canadians (and northern Americans) that are going to be cold starting your RX-8 in the coming weeks...be prepared for this, and follow the 5 minute start rule.

I've tried starting it for 3 days now, and no dice. Tried yanking the fuel pump fuse, waited a day, still no dice. If anyone else has suggestions outside of yanking out the spark plugs to dry them (I'm not touching this engine, it's too tempermental as it is), I'd like to hear it.

Thx.
First of all, thank you. Your suggestion to pull the fuel pump fuse and the ensuing comment to floor the gas pedal to achieve the same thing helped by overriding the Mazda dealer's suggestion of cranking - "but don't give it any gas."

Secondly, your story was virtually exactly the same as mine save for my wife having used my car while gone and didn't refuel. What was left in the tank was just enough to flood, but once unflooded, there was not gas there to start up.

Moral: don't let your wife/gf/significant other ever touch your car.

:)

Not sure if you realize this but you just replied to an 8 year old post, heh.. Welcome to the forums!

Better late than never. The post still solved my problem.

:)

Holy old thread!

Rebelde, you'll have to share some information about the vehicle.
TSB here http://www.finishlineperformance.com/pdf/rx8/bulletin/01-015-08-1883f.pdf


Dark Brew,

Thank you for this post. I been working all day trying different tricks and tips. I will try this on Tuesday when I have my next day off.

All the other things did not work. So I will update this Tuesday.